by 20% across the board. the cost of doing so will be e$ trillion over ten years. that's less money for a government already deep in the red. one that assumes makes the deficit worse, right? wrong says mitt romney. he'll pay for the tax cut by limit the tax breaks which the wealth why i can take which according to the nonpartisan tax policy sent core cover $2 trillion of the projected $5 trillion cost. romney says he can make up the difference by spurring economic growth because people will spend all that money that they're not using to pay taxes. it's not entirely clear that that will happen. if it does, it's not entirely clear how much economic growth that will produce. what is clear is that the 1.3% economic growth that u.s. achieved in this second quarter of this year isn't enough to make up for the romney short fall. and with the u.s. economy forecasted to grow by about 3%

in 2013 and 2014, romney's plan, as attractive as it sounds, is in doubt. kevin hasset is an economic adviser for the mitt romney campaign and author of some of the economic plans. kevin, romney plans seem to assume that simple act of lowering taxes will generate enough growth to raise the revenue to pay for the steep cost of those cuts. but a lot of economists agree with that notion. it's a classic chicken and egg scenario. i talked to larry summers a couple days ago. he can't get the math to work either. >> it's easy to have an attractive tax plan if your campaign staff can make it up. the reality is that every expert who's looked at it found that cutting taxes by 20% costs $5 trillion. >> okay. let's get down to this. we understand there will be certain revenues that will come in. there will be certain revenues lost. you kept people keep some of their money. the issue is how much more

growth to you get from that? the issue is how much better is the economy because you have given everybody a discount on the taxes that they pay? and that's what we're trying to get to. we can do the math better if we knew exactly what that benefit was going to be. >> look, ali, this is something that economists have been studying for a long time. allen kruger who is the current chairman of the council of economic advisors for president obama, he surveyed economists and they say that something like the romney plan, they were talking about the 86 tax act after which the romney plan is modelled to deliver .5% to 1% higher growth in the medium term. there is a 2006 joint tax committee study that is a very nonpartisan organization that also gave a 23% across the board rate cut that was balanced by, you know, getting rid of the tax expenditures. a score of 1% a year growth as well. if can you actually move there, i don't that i there is a lot of dispute that we get higher growth. >> so you're saying, you're assuming they -- >> will they make the tough choices? >> so you're assuming 3% economic growth and in could

goose it by 1% getting us to 4% which could now start to lend itself to making sense? >> yeah. i mean i don't know if the baseline is 3% or 2.5% right now. certainly we would kill for 2.5% growth this year. relative to baseline, we have to get 1% a year. that's where the 12 million jobs come from. simple math. >> christine romans is the host of "your bottom line." you studied this romney tax plan as much as can you study it. that is the problem. there are assumptions that are missing. >> and the study studying the study and what we know is -- kevin knows what i'm talking about, we know that there is a framework here. mitt romney is saying and his team is saying, look, i want to lower your taxes. i want to lower everyone's taxes. i do not want to raise taxes on the middle class. look at the tax policy center and how they look at the buckets of deduction that's mitt romney talks about, kevin, if yorepeal all of the itemized deductions, you look at the buckets that mitt romney is proposing he

would have the tax plan is $17,000 cap on deductions. that would raise $1.7 trillion. you get the picture. 50,000, only $763 billion. how do you make -- it's just economic growth enough to make it up, make up the rest of it? >> no. you don't need economic growth at all. they took a bunch of stuff off the table. governor romney is not drawing lines in the sand. again, there are $2 trillion worth of tax expenditures a year you could potentially draw from. now governor romney doesn't want to lift taxes on capital gains and dividends. that is a chunk of it. there is a lot of stuff left over. and that's why harvey rosen and marty phelps has done analysis that shows before you get to growth can you get really darn close. but let's not forget that -- >> what are the things you're talking about? >> let me make one last point f you came up short -- excuse me? >> give me the examples. what are the things you're talking about where you can make it up. >> so, for example, you could just put a cap on all deductions other than the things that affect capital income as

governor romney saying maybe $17,000. then all the things that are in there that narrow the base would then be limited, depending on what you were doing elsewhere. so if you took the mortgage interest deduction and filled up your bucket with $17,000 worth of deduction, everything else in the tax code is limited. >> kevin, i want to bring up -- i appreciate you continue to come on the show and have the same discussion with me. i want to bring up 12 million jobs promise. romney and you say that his policies, including his tax plan will help create 250,000 jobs a month for four straight years. that's a grand total of 12 million jobs. i agree with you, larry sum serz -- larry summers is a democrat. here's what he had to say about it. >> there's a long tradition of campaign arithmetic by challengers that confuses a goal with a forecast. it's a worthy goal much it's a

good thing to strive for. president obama would rather create four million jobs. he'd rather create five million jobs. he's rather create six million jobs. but there's a difference between a goal and aspiration and a reasonable forecast. >> so, kevin, is 12 million jobs a golan aspiration or a reasonable forecast? is it campaign arithmetic? >> i think it's something that would happen if governor romney were elected. if you look at private sector forecasters and as you know, like moodies and mack crow economic advisors and others are already looking forward to higher growth over the next four years because they think that the recession is finally getting behind us. if you look at the jobs numbers implis it in private sector forecast, they're finding jobs like 12 million over the four-year period. the question is just, you know, why would we switch from where we are to the state where we could have an economy that once again would deliver 12 million jobs? the reason they find that is they think we're going to return to normal. i would argue that if president obama is re-elected we won't.

we won't fix our big problems. we won't go back to the normal u.s. economy. we won't have the jobs. but under governor romney's plan, there is a story that we could go back to that 12 million jobs. >> the stories are an issue. we can find them to support any -- >> studies of studies. >> no, that's not true, ali. that's not true. can you not find any study that says that president obama is going to create jobs by hiking marginal tax rates. there is no study that says that. we're talking a lot about romney's plan. obama doesn't even have a plan. and so there is no one and out there that one can argue. >> one of the studies that mitt romney cited in defense of the 12 million jobs is offered one of the studies has come out and said that is a misinterpretation of my words. so, you know what i mean? i'd be happy fit happens, kevin. i'd be most happy to wear a dress for a week. i think if we create 12 million jobs, that is a really good thing for america. i like big goals. i'm just trying to figure out whether you should get people's votes on the basis of two things, the tax cut proposal and

the jobs creation proposal you have that depends on greater economic growth and it's a slightly hard line to completely connect. that's the issue. >> if we take your perspective on it though, you would have to concede that you have a choice between a candidate romney that has a proposal that arguably could create 12 million jobs. it's not going to cut the number of jobs created. then a candidate who photo copied the budget from last year and said that's my plan. the only thing really economically substantive is a big hike on small business and wealthy individuals when, you know, maybe you think the redistribution from that is a good thing. the president's jobs plan from last fall, you know, it is somethi something that, again, has not garnered a lot of support. it's the same ole stimulus stuff he gave us. >> there is an infrastructure backed idea in there. do you like that part? >> i don't know if his

characterization of an infrastructure bank is the one that i would support. i'm not speaking for governor romney here. i know that moving towards, you know, public-partnerships is something once again that's your candidate that we're celebrating. canadians have done a great job of building an infrastructure bank that fosters public-private partnerships and gets a lot of infrastructure built. >> cross-ice teen, i just like to talk to kevin until he says something nice. thank you so much, kevin. senior fellow and director of economic policy at aei. christine romans is host of "your bottom line." president obama and mitt romney want to expand domestic oil production. >> we're going to get a north america energy independent where we don't have to buy any oil whatsoever from the middle east or from venezuela. >> in 2010, it was under 50% for the first time in 13 years. next, cnn's fareed zakaria with his own road map to energy

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canada. that trend will continue no matter who sits in the white house next year. let's take a look at oil, for instance. america is about 5% of the world's population. but it consumes about 1/5 of the world's daily oil production. 45% of the oil americans consume is imported. that is way down from the peak of 60% in 2005. in fact, america is now the third largest producer of oil in the world today. u.s. oil production is jumped 14% in the last three years alone. deep water drilling in the gulf of mexico is bringing even more oil to market. mitt romney wants to open up the pacific and atlantic coast to drilling. something president obama opposes. instead, obama wants to invest in alternative form of energy that will eventually replace oil. fareed zakaria is focusing on global lessons, the gps road map for powering america airs sunday

airs sunday. this may be the one thing that partisan scorched earth politics isn't hurting. in fact, both of these candidates are arguing similar things. they're both moving toward energy independence for mornlg nesh north america. >> absolutely. we were all expecting a technological revolution in energy. but what we meant is wind and solar. instead, we got a technological revolution in the exploration of oil and gas. the result is that chart we showed by the end of this decade the united states will be the world's top exporter of oil and liquified natural gas. so we will be ahead of saudi arabia. >> that's incredible. the implication, of the natural gas is you can use that not just as a normal fuel but use it to produce electricity which will make the cost of electricity more stable and cheaper in the united states. which could lead to a resurgence of certain industries. >> the most important -- the

natural gas piece, you're right, is very important. it lowers the costs of manufacturing. now when you're thinking about manufacturing, when you're thinking about putting up a plant and bringing workers in america, people think the big problem is the wages of the workers. no. the big thing they worry about is the cost of energy. >> right. >> if energy costs dramatically drop, we're producing gas at $2 for a cubic foot. in russia, they sell it to you at $19. so we're much cheaper. as a result, dow chemical and places like that are beginning real manufacturing operations in the united states. there's also an environmental benefit. natural gas emits half the co 2 emissions of coal. and almost everywhere natural gas are replacing coal. so it's sort of a win-win. though it is still growing. >> still a fossil fuel like coal and oil, president obama wants to focus a lot more on nonfossil fuels, wind, solar,

hydroelectricity. and that's an area that you look into in your special. >> yeah. look, there's no question that the ultimate future for energy should be that we take advantage of the things we have. some amazing statistic like in 14 seconds the sun emits enough energy, hits the earth to power the entire earth. so if we could find a way to capture that, there is wind blowing, this is renewable. it's unending and if we can get it to be cheap and on scale, this will be the ultimate solution. this will be the true energy revolution. so what obama wants to do, which i think is a smart idea, is invest whild e we extract oil a gas. but eventually figure out a way to get those costs down for wind and solar. now you have to design those programs intelligently in terms of investment in technology. but you know, we have done it before. the defense department and nafta supported the computer industry. in the 1950s, half of all computer chips produced in the

world were bought by the u.s. defense department. >> and now we don't think of the computer industry as supported by government. this is going to be a great special. i'm looking forward to it. thank you. >> pleasure. >> the special "global lessons and the gps road map for powering america" airs on sunday at 8:00 p.m. on cnn. t. boon pickens rolled out his solution for ending the united states' dependence on oil before the last election. why he's encouraged by what he's hearing ahead of this election. and look at. this this thing can create eight time as much power as the hoover dam. what is it? i'll explain after the break. tty helps make you a better investor. with our revolutionary e-trade 360 dashboard you see exactly where your money is and what it's doing live. our e-trade pro platform offers powerful functionality that's still so usable you'll actually use it. and our mobile apps are the ultimate in wherever whenever investing. no matter what kind of investor you are,

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appeal award two years in a row. ffor help finding a plan that's right for you, give unitedhealthcare a call today. 2,203 trillion cubic feet, that's how much natural gas we're sitting on in this country. that would be enough to last about 92 years at current consumption rates. production of natural gas is

climbing. up 14% between 2008 and 2011. as technology allows us to extract more and more from deeper and deeper beneath the ground. and as the abundant supply increases, it made it cheaper than the price of gasoline. and that's why oil tycoon turned activist t. boon pickens says it's the key in the short term to getting the u.s. off imported oil. now you'll remember back in 2003 boon released the pickens plan. it's a blueprint for u.s. energy independence. it had four key pillars. number one, use america's abundant natural gas to replace imported oil as a transportation fuel. number two, build a 21st century electrical transmission grid. number three, develop renewable energy sources such as wind and solar. and number four, incentivize homeowners and commercial building owners to upgrade their installation and increase efficiency. now boone says the first one using natural gas to fuel

vehicles is the critical puzzle piece right now. getting there won't be easy. most of the natural gas in this country is used to create electricity and just 1% of it, that little pink slice over there, is used for transportation. joining me now is my friend t. boone pickens, architect of the pickens plan and the founder of bp capital. boone, today natural gas in the united states accounts for about 112,000 vehicles. it powers about 112,000 vehicles, mostly commercial vekd vehicles. the transition costs are huge. how do we get there? how much progress, if any, are we making? >> just leave it up to private capital. you don't need the government to do one thing for them. please, please. i heard it so many times. let the government do the infrastructure. let me tell you, if we do that, i'll be dead and gone by the time the infrastructure is complete. just let private industry handle it. we have plenty of natural gas just like you said.

92 years, i accept that number. now 112,000 vehicles, you know how many vehicles there are in the world that are on natural gas? 13 million. gas problem, the russian company announced yesterday this week that sometime they are going to use natural gas for transportation fuel. it will happen. it has to happen. it's $2 a gallon cheaper than it is for diesel. natural gas is cheaper. but we got a heated discussion going on in energy in the second debate. they didn't come up to any conclusions. now we're going to switch over to our third debate, foreign relations. foreign relations mideast is built right on top of energy. that's exactly why we're there. >> boone -- >> we don't dhave to be -- >> you're talking about that second debate. you're happy they discussed energy. president obama certainly understands that natural gas needs to be in the mix. listen to what he had to say.

>> we continue to make it a priority for us to go after natural gas. we've got potentially 600,000 jobs and 100 years worth of energy right beneath our feet with natural gas. >> but, boone, you say mitt romney demonstrated a deeper understanding of energy. tell me why. >> he's got a plan. you see it. you heard what obama said there. he talks about natural gas. sure. does he have a plan? never seen it yet. he never has a plan. it's always just a speech. it's what he has. but you got romney. he has a 21-page plan. it is perfect? no, but it's pretty darn good plan. and so here what you're going to have on the third debate, you need to get into we're in the mideast. what are we in the mideast for? the straits of harmuz, 17 million barrels of oil moving out of there today. moves out every day. we get 13% of that. two million barrels come to the united states.

so we have people. we have our navy over there. we have people on the ground. we're spending -- listen, if you rolled up what the cost of that two million barrel as a day that we get out of the straits of harmuz, it is $300 a barrel. it's insane what we're doing over there. these two guys that are running for president need to come up with a plan as to -- we can get off the two million barrel as a day from the persian gulf, straits of harmuz. we can get off that very easily with our own resources in this country. we have more oil. we have the natural gas that can go to heavy duty. what you need out of this third debate is a plan. >> t. boone pickens, always a pleasure. there's one country doing energy the right way, china. that is one of the reasons everybody is talking about it. >> all of this borrowing from china -- >> change that's were taking place in china. >> china needs the united states. >> some emerging markets like china. >> government investment and energy infrastructure made china a legitimate world power.

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take a walk in shanghai today and you'll feel like you walk into a time machine and traveled into the future. i had a chance to visit china in august. i canceled my flight from beijing to shanghai to try out the high speed rail. high speed rail is exactly the kind of smart long term infrastructure investment that the u.s. economy desperately needs. in just two decades, china has seen 350 million people, more than the entire population of the united states, move from the countryside into the cities. and the massive skyscrapers and super efficient subways are paying off. it's true that china's growth is slowing. look at that. it simply cannot sustain the current pace of growth.

shanghai's stock market is trading at one-third of the 2007 peak in part because of a lack of transparency, concerns about the pace of political and economic reform, rampant thrivery, theft of intellectual property and questions about how china will deal with the manipulation of its currency. >> china has been a currency manipulator for years and years and years. this is a regular opportunity to label them as a currency manipulator but refuses to do so. >> they have gone to 11% since being president. we have pushed them hard. >> the currency of the u.n. keeping the currency low, china can sell the products they manufacture for less than their worth. they sell goods at a price high enough to pay wages to their workers. and it's a problem. somewhere in there there are

opportunities. the author of "red alert," how china's growing prosperity threatens the american way of life. so that's the threat, right? there are things that change that make it harder for people. >> yes. also, ali, all this infrastructure spending that you referred to is using up tremendous amounts of resources. and you referred to 350 million. there is another 350 million and they push into urban areas. and there is over $1 trillion they want to spend on a smart grid. another major infrastructure project. probably a trillion dollars on water. when all is told, over the next seven years, china may spend or $4 trillion on spending in a infrastructure. just to lay the groundwork for the 21st century. >> right, which we talk about here. they're doing it in very big numbers.

what does this mean as an opportunity? how does my viewer take advantage of all this growth in china? because when you listen to the presidential debates, all you hear about china is it's bad and it's a threat. there's got to be a way to make money off this. >> sure. where there is pay dirt, there is always opportunity. i think longer term commodities are going to benefit. >> they eat more and they need to build more. >> right. exactly. exactly. and building a smart grid is going to take massive amounts of copper and other materials. and all these people into the cities is going to take massive amounts steel and iron orr. >> and they're eating more food and taking in more calories. >> and recently the most recent gdp report was, you know, in line with target, 7.4%, i believe. but you saw boosted consumption. i mean the chinese are really managing their economy very well. >> and 7.4% compared to 1.3% in the united states. let's talk about the stock

market. the shanghai stock market is not doing well at all. you have to think about -- you have to be careful when thinking about investing in china for stocks. >> right. >> i have to use your word, barometer. it's not a barometer. in our country, the stock market is a barometer more or less than the economy. in china, not really at all. i mean the solar industry, for example, they'll support the solar companies even though they may be bankrupt. they don't care that they're bankrupt as long as they learn how to manufacturing as cheap as possible. if you're investing in china, buy commodities. buy the etfs that underlined by particular commodities like jjc for copper, jld for gold. that's the best twi go. >> ats can be bought just like a stock with the tickers. thank you for joining us. coming up, she was the woman in charge of protecting your money during the financial crisis. >> we participate in the bailouts. and they did have a short term impact in stabilizing the

market. but that's not something i'm proud of. i'm aframed of thaashamed of th. >> four years later, she is pointing fingers and naming names. who had your back and who didn't? that's next on "your money." [ man ] in hong kong, on my way to the board meeting...

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america heads to the polls in two weeks. one question you probably asked yourself during the campaigns, are you better off now than you were four years ago? well, when it comes to the overall u.s. economy, the answer is absolutely yes. four years ago america and the world marched to the edge of the economic abyss. >> major sectors of america's financial system are at risk of shutting down. >> reporter: the financial crisis actually kicked up two

weeks earlier with the collapse of lehman brothers. >> we have a big problem. >> reporter: by four years ago, it morphed into a global freeze of credit that threatened the world with economic depression. >> this is credit at the highest level between institutions. >> congress was presented with one choice and one choice only. >> it's important to get credit flowing again. >> bail out the banks. the banks that got us into this mess in the first place. >> should there even be a bailout? >> no butsh bailout! >> americans are angry. so are my colleagues. >> on september 29th, the bill to save the economy went down to defeat in the house of representatives. >> the legislation has failed. >> i'm very disappointed in today's vote. >> to the democrats and republicans who oppose this plan yesterday, i say step up to the plate. >> investors panicked. the dow dropped 777 points. the biggest single day point loss to date. >> this is what brought us to

the brink of collapse. >> wow. >> all because annie went to get a house she couldn't afford? there is enough blame to go around. $1.2 trillion in market value dropped in one day. congress quickly reconvened and four days later on october 3rd, it passed the $700 billion troubled asset relief program. >> congress has agreed to a broad deal that authorizes the treasury secretary to start releasing money to free up the credit systems. >> that may have been the last time that americans witnessed bipartisan compromise on something that really mattered in washington. four years later, and on the eve of another election, voters are being asked, are you better off than you were then? the answer is yes. because it was that bad. but how much better could it have been if washington had in the last four years put intense partisanship aside to work for the good of the american people?

sheila bear was at the center of the storm with the financial system collapsing around all of us. she had her back. her job was to deal with the failed banks. she was the chairman of the fdic. she has a new book about her experiences during the financial crisis. she holds no punches. it is called "bull by the horns: fighting to save main street from wall street and wall street from itself." sheila, good to see you again. >> thank you for having me. >> in your book, it's just chalk full of information about the financial system about, what went wrong, about what went right. but in it you criticize the treasury secretary timothy geithner largely for just being too good to the banks, for being too close to the banks. tell me a bit more about that. >> we did have a fundamental, philosophical clash of views. tim was operating with the best of intentions. he viewed the world as stabilizing the big financial ins to yous, making them work and that was going to help the rest of the economy. it just didn't work out that

way. their interests and our interests are very different. >> what should have happened? >> in 2008, we were spending out of control. we needed to do something. we did something very dramatic. i think those were overly generous. in 2009 we had a stable financial system in 2009. that's when we should have been imposing accountability. i think we should have tried to break up citigroup or force them to sell off the assets, replace their management. we didn't do that. and the other banks were forced to solve the bad assets and clean you up the balance street. we didn't do any restructuring in 2009. we just propped up everybody. this continues to be a drag on economic growth. we have a bloated financial sector. >> a drag on economic growth, does that mean it's as bad as it was? can the same things happen again? >> no. well, i think it can, yes. i think we've got more capitol into the banks now. that is one of the positives that i point out in the book. but there are a lot of very new and pretty scary risks out there. europe continues to be a problem of uncertain resolution.

interest rate risks longer term, we don't know what the outcome is going to be this very long period of near zero interest rate policies. and there is still a lot of risk taking in the banks. one of the bad course of keeping interest rates near zero and very low rates on safe investments is banks and everyone else looks for return and they go to higher risk assets to get that return. >> one of the things that low interest rates did for us for us so long is masked real problems. >> that's right. >> and you're concerned that continues to happen. >> that is happening again. i absolutely do. i think our problems are structural. congress needs to deal with our fiscal situation. they need to clean out our tax code. it's very inefficient. our corporate rates are far too high. nobody pays them because you have all the special exceptions. >> we have high rates but so many people get out of them. better if we had lower rates and make everybody pay the same. >> right. that would make us more competitive internationally, too, i think. that i think more than anything would help our domestic economy

and exports. this is quantitative easing. the other countries are fighting it. we're getting into a currency war now. i respect that he is trying to solve our problems with monetary policy. he can't. congress and the president need to deal with this. >> a lot of things you suggest are not typically suggested by republicans. >> right. >> part of the reason you wanted this book out now is because it should be part of people's decision making when they go to cast a ballot. >> it should be. >> they should be able to know who is out there to protect their interests. >> that's right. >> who have the presidential conditioned dates is out there to best protect them? >> frankly, i'm disappointed with both sides. i think mr. obama, he's been talking guy game. if you look at dodd/frank inflemei implementation, it's been very slow. the rules are highly complicated. a lot of exceptions. mr. romney, on the other hand, says he wants to repeal dod frank and replace it. it's not clear what he wants to replace it w and neither one of them are acknowledging that they

are trying to promise that they're going to have improved economy in the next four years. but they're not relating that to having a stable financial sector. they're not going to have a healthy economy if they don't have a stable financial sector. >> that is key to our economic recovery. shielda bair this is a great book and important read for everybody. "bull by the horns." up next, you need more people like sheila bair watching out for your money because the super rich are shutting the door on the middle class. at least according to one influential author. he'll explain next. ♪ to look at [ sighs ] ♪ oh, he's shaggy ♪ and he eats like a hog [ male announcer ] the volkswagen jetta. available with advanced keyless technology. control everything from your pocket, purse, or wherever. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ that dirty, old egg-suckin' dog ♪

america is segmented, broken up, divided. occupy wall street highlighted the divide between what they term the top 1% and everybody else. then republican presidential candidate mitt romney was caught on a camera saying 47% of the country backs president obama because they're dependent on the government and feel like victims. since then he's reiterated he cares about 100% of the

population. but this week mitt romney unveiled a new group, the 5%. >> i am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. the top 5% of taxpayers will continue to pay 60% of the income tax the nation collects. >> the tax policy center says the top 5% make at least $181,000 a year. so do you feel confused, not sure where you belong? well, a new book explains that it doesn't actually matter which group you identify with because it's neither the 5% nor the 1% that matters. it's the 0.01%. they're the only ones winning these days and they're pushing everyone else down the economic ladder. the book is called "the rise of the new global super rich and the fall of everyone else." here is the cliff notes version. freeland says america's super rich are isolating themselves. they have more to do with the super rich in other countries than they do with fellow americans. guess what? just like mitt romney's 47%, the

super rich also feel like victims. they're ostracized by society, disconnected from the working class who drive their cars and build mansions and pile up yachts and they're not going to take it anymore. so in the old world, there were always rich and there were always super rich. but they made their money on the backs products, so it was incumbent upon you to want a strong middle class in your country because they buy your stuff. now, the connection between the super rich and who they need to buy their products or use their services is not national. >> that's right. i want to stipulate, i believe in globalization. i think it's a great thing for the world overall. really great for people in emerging markets being raised up, but we also have to be aware of what are the consequences and the impacts. if you think back to the henry ford era, he believed he had to pay his workers well so they could afford to buy his cars. what we're seeing in the u.s.

economy is the economy of the people at the very top breaking away from the economy of everybody else. there was a statemefamous citi investor note that said we're seeing it divide into the economy at the very top and the economy below. the reality is as you know from people you talk to on your show, when you're at the very, very top, you don't think about your national consumers. you think about the global economy. >> what's the consequence for public policy? what's the consequence when the very rich in society are that disconnected from everybody else? >> well, i think the consequence is that what is good -- a couple consequences. one is they are living increasingly separate lives, and what is really crucial, you said, alli that the rich have always been with us. true, but they haven't been with us in the way they are today. and it is really important to face the facts that that gap has

become a yawning chasm. in the past three decades, it has exponentially grown. they're much more distant from the rest of us than they used to be, and two, the kinds of policies they might think are right may not be what suits the middle class today. that's particularly important in the united states, in the era of super pacs when we're seeing the political voice of the rich really, really have a megaphone and we see a lot of people who feel, you know, and we hear this directly from governor romney, that their business expertise translates into policy expertise. qualifies them to make good decisions. i think that we have to be really thoughtful about that and say, okay. just because you know what's really good for your business and for this type of business, will that automatically translate into something that is good for the hollowed out middle class. >> interesting conversation and great book. thank you for being with us.

"plutocrats, the rise of the super rich and the fall of everyone else. qualities. >> what happens when a bunch of cnn crew get on a bus and trek across the country? you're going to find out. we hit the road next. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future. how they'll live tomorrow.

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at meineke i have options... like oil changes starting at $19.95. my money. my choice. my meineke. all right, i'm hitting the road next week. the cnn express bus. we're rolling from florida to ohio, and we want to talk to you. we're hearing different things from people wherever we're going. >> battleground bus state tour. a chance to get on the road and talk to folks on the ground in the state that will decide the next presidential election. florida, virginia, ohio. the reality is this election is going to be decided by a comparatively small number of voters in a handful of states.

>> there's a new normal that says things aren't as prosperous as they used to be. i want to see if the election changes that. >> and it's tight. this election is tight right now. >> for all of the economic reports you can have, all of the discussions you can have with economists, you can tell more about the economy by getting out there and understanding how people are making their money and spending their money. >> we're going to be going through parts of the country that have very, very different and specific economic needs, but each one of those will map on to something else across the country. >> there's a really important distinction between where people are and where they think they're going. and being on these trips really gives me a sense of where people think they're going. >> jobs. unemployment. how many think that's a bigger problem? as much as people would like to say i don't care about this circus, this isn't about me. they kind of have to. it's a right and a responsibility. if folks aren't clear on that, they should go read a history book.

>> we're just there to talk to them. we're just there to listen. most of the time, people think we talk for a living, but we're actually going to be listening to people, and there's no greater education than that. >> and cnn contributor john avalon joins me and he's going to join me on the bus. this election is coming down to a smaller and smaller number of states. and districts, and counties, and we're going to go in there and we're not going to hear the same thing. you have a real sense of the distinctions between the stories in florida and the carolinas and virginia and ohio. >> totally different political top augu topography. it comes down to swing voters and swing states. florida, foertd persh of the house is still under water on their mortgages. unemployment a big problem. diverse state, fast growing. the fact it's an aging population, so medicare, health care a real issue. north carolina, a state where

the textile issue was decimated. bible belt, virginia, unemployment, half the national average because of government workers. northern virginia, very diverse. they have to take a different view of the government get out of my life situation. >> exactly right. the folks in loudon county, that anti-government rhetoric doesn't work for them. they're scared about the sequestration cuts. and ohio is shaping up again to be the big one. this is my mother's home state. i know it well. here's a state that has gotten terrible economic news for decades. steel mills closing, manufacturing moving out. in the eastern part of the state, there's an oil and gas boom going on. it's fascinating how that's changing people's lifestyles. >> they have a lot of autoworkers there who like the fact that the auto industry was saved. we're going to be in youngstown, toledo, cambden, right before te

election. i'll be tweeting, checking my facebook page the entire trip. i want to hear from you. my twitter handle is @alivelshi. thank you for joining the conversation on your money this week. we're here every saturday and sunday at 3:00 p.m. have a great weekend. in just two days, president obama and mitt romney will face off for a third and final time. this weekend, both candidates are working hard preparing behind closed doors in the hopes of winning the last showdown. they're running mates, they're busy campaigning in key states this weekend. you're looking at live pictures of vice president biden at a rally in florida. let's listen in. >> instea