case. >> reporter: the nypd has consulted with its counterparts in new orleans where evidence and records were destroyed following hurricane katrina. the new orleans police department says one key difference is that floodwaters remained at the new orleans courthouse for weeks where evidence was destroyed. and they have the job of cata g cataloging evidence that could be salvaged. >> it took years. it has not something that can be easily done. and in new york you're looking at facilities that are much more vast than what we had here in new orleans. so that compounds it even more. >> reporter: no's police department says it expects to get into the evidence warehouses in the coming weeks to assess the extent of the damage. but already the chief attorney for new york's legal aid society is bracing for serious repercussions. he notes that there are more than 200,000 criminal cases in new york city every year. mary snow, cnn, new york. >> cnn "newsroom" continues now

with martin savidge, who is in for fredricka whitfield. i will hand it off. >> thank you very much. nice to see you. let's get started. it is the top of the hour. welcome to the "cnn newsroom." i'm martin savidge in for fredricka whitfield. here are the top stories at this hour. new details about that disturbing rape case in a small town of subenville, ohio. last hour city leaders talked about their investigation. >> early in the case during the first week after we were made ware of this incident, we obtained this video. i, too, as all my officers who investigated this, were appalled by these morally inept statements made. the new prosecutors, special prosecutors for the high attorney a.g.'s office, everything was submitted to them. they decide what charges, if any, would be filed. >> the charges to be filed mentiond are against two 16-year-old boys, malik rich monday and trent mays. they're accused of raping an underage girl while she was

allegedly drunk or unconscious. that trial is slated to start on february 13th. national correspondent susan candiotti joins me from steubenville, ohio. what's the latest this hour? >> reporter: hi, marty. there's a big protest going on on the steps of the jefferson county courthouse. police estimate around 300 people or so. this is not the first time people have been staging protests. their main beef, as they see it, many of these people here, they're coming here for different causes. some are calling for justice for jane doe, the alleged victim in this case. many other people here are not happy with the way they feel investigators have been looking at this case. they don't think some of them that police have done a thorough job of investigating it. they allege that there has been a cover-up. now, authorities and the city insist that there has been no cover-up, that they are doing a thorough investigation and that the people that have been

charged will have justice done at a trial coming up next month. but there are a lot of people here on both sides. they're staging a noisy protest here. and many of them feel that the city hasn't done enough to get down to the bottom of this. we'll all find out as that trial begins. marty? >> and i understand you have exclusive new details of an alleged text message that was sent from the 16-year-old to trent mays, and he of course is one of the boys accused of raping her. what did the text say? >> reporter: this -- that's right. this comes to us from the defense attorney for trent mays. now, he tells us, and it says, quote, i know you didn't rape me. now, he says that this was sent on august 14th. but let's keep in mind, here, he did not show me the text. we also don't know the context of it, whether that's the only text, whether there were several texts, did some precede it, follow it, what was the tone. these are all some of the unanswered questions that we have.

here's the time line to remind people of this. the alleged rape occurred on august 11th during a night of partying where the alleged victim was described as drunk or unconscious much of that time. on that same date at -- excuse me. on august 14th at 1:40 in the morning, that is when police say the mother, after seeing a lot of tweets and seeing this explode on the internet, found out about it and went to police to file a report. on that same day, august 14th, that is when the text message was allegedly sent, the particular one that we're talking about. marty? >> i know, susan, there's been sort of some discrepancies talked about the victim and what state she might have been in. and i'm wondering, what does her attorney say about her physical state? >> reporter: well, that, of course, is what we wanted to know, too. he will not comment, nor will many other people, about the evidence of this case or about the text message in particular.

but he did have this to say about the text message or messages that may have been sent ba that night. listen. >> this young girl was unconscious, so she wouldn't have the ability to know whether she was raped or not on the day after or two days after or three, whatever the timing of that was. we also don't know whether the defendants were texting, trying to coerce or talk people into making statements and trying to build up a defense for themselves after they started realizing this thing kind of unfolded. >> susan, i'm wondering, you know, we just heard the attorney make the comment that she was unconscious, so how do we really know what happened that night? >> reporter: well, in fact, there's even been testimony at a probable cause hearing back on october 14th that she told police she didn't remember anything about what happened that night. however, there are at least three witnesses that testified

at that hearing. one of them testified that he saw this 16-year-old girl being raped. so of course we just know a tiny bit of evidence right now. so much more to be heard. and everyone is saying wait and see how this plays out at the trial. let's not get ahead of ourselves. marty? >> of course. and the protest behind you is for what purpose? >> reporter: yes. the people here also, of course, want to hear about what happens at their trial. many of them calling for justice for jane doe, as they're calling her. but many people here feel that the police are not getting the whole story, that there are more people out there, that there is an atmosphere in this town and perhaps among, as they put it, football players, who are -- who are not being properly supervised. and they are even alleging that there may be a cover-up involved here. the city denies it. the attorney general's office te

nighs it. >> clear there are a lot of people demonstrating. susan candiotti, thanks for keeping us up on this story. four people including a gunman are dead in aurora, colorado, after a standoff inside a home. we know from our affiliate kusa that that incident started early this morning and that police negotiators were on the scene. authorities haven't said much more than that. you'll remember aurora, of course, is where 12 people were killed and 58 injured when a gunman opened fire last sumner a movie theater there. a plane carrying a famous fashion designer is missing. vittorio missoni, his wife and four others were on board that plane when it vanished off the coast of venezuela yesterday. searchers are still looking for any signs of a crash. missoni and the others were on apparently on vacation when the plane took off from caracas. lance armstrong's attorney is denying that his client talking with the u.s. or world anti-doping agencies about publicly admitting using illegal

performance-enhancing drugs. his lawyer did not address claims in "the new york times" that the cyclist was considering the confession as a way to restore his athletic eligibility. armstrong has been stripped of his seven tour de france titles and banned from cycling for life. but armstrong has always denied using banned performance-enhancing drugs. well, there have been no reports of damage. that is the good news after an earthquake struck early this morning off of the alaskan coast. it was big, 7.5 magnitude quake triggered a tsunami warning for parts of the state and for parts of canada. but the warning was canceled after the wave measuring just 6 inches washed ashore in far southeastern alaska. well, after surviving the fiscal cliff, washington now faces a new obstacle -- cutting spending and the debt. both sides are digging in. and prosecutors are ready to outline their case against the man accused of burglaring a

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try capzasin-hp. it penetrates deep to block pain signals for hours of relief. capzasin-hp. take the pain out of arthritis. it is the political version of chicken. a divided gop and the rift between congress and the white house will both test washington's ability to fix a struggling economy. who's going to blink first? here's jim acosta. >> reporter: martin, it seems old habits die hard. remember all those feelings of kumbaya when members of the 113th congress were sworn in? well, never mind. after surviving a failed coup led by his own members, a beleaguered house speaker, john boehner, wants to take that same fractured party into battle.

in a closed-door meeting of house republicans, a source in the room tells cnn boehner said he will demand budget cuts that are larger than any increase in the nation's debt limit. with the fiscal cliff behind us, he told his members, the focus turns to spending. that puts republicans in congress back on a collision course with the white house after the president insisted earlier this week he will not negotiate over the debt ceiling. >> i will not have another debate with this congress over whether or not they should pay the bills that they've already racked up through the laws that they passed. >> reporter: if the president won't come to the bargaining table, one stop republican in the senate, john cornyn, says in an op-ed in "the houston chronicl chronicle", "it may be necessary to partially shut down the government." >> democrats warn, watch out. risking government shutdown, risking not raising the debt creeling is playing with fire. >> on this vote, the yays are 354, the nays are 67. >> reporter: a preview of that

brinkmanship came in the house, where 67 republicans, including house budget chair paul ryan, voted against $9.7 billion in aid for victims of superstorm sandy. despite the tongue-lashing they got from new jersey governor chris christie. >> shame on you. shame on congress. >> reporter: the fact that the rest of the storm relief is now up in the air until a vote late thermowas a letdown for new york and new jersey lawmakers. even the freshmen. >> i'm new here. i don't know all the rules of washington, but it sure seems like the rule here is to put off till tomorrow what should be done today. >> reporter: it was a return to the reality of broken government in washington. >> take a chance on your reputation here. >> reporter: after all that goodwill on display when vice president joe biden was swearing in members of the 113th congress and hamming it up with their loved ones. one day later we asked the vice president if things have

changed. back to a season of bipartisan here? his response off camera, "we're back to certifying the election." biden was heading into the house to confirm the results of the presidential election, a ritual mandated in the constitution and a reminder of the few things that can get done without a fight. asked whether the congress is returning to its old pattern of brinkmanship, one top gop aide told cnn, "absolutely." adding the next few month ls won't be fun. martin? >> and this reminder, at the top of the hour on "your money," ali velshi looks at what's wrong with our budget process and ways to solve it. after barely avoiding that fiscal cliff, what will congress and the president be able to accomplish moving forward in 2013? cnn contributor ryan lisza is the washington correspondent for the new yorker. ryan, let's talk about this cliff deal. >> good morning. >> it was limited mostly to tax issue, much of the disappointment of many people. now we face big questions on spending and another so-called

crisis moment with the next debt ceiling vote. let's start with the debt ceiling. president says he's not going to negotiate. so how far will house republicans push on this vote to try to leverage spending cuts? >> i think they're going push pretty far. you know, as the conservative "wall street journal" editorialized yesterday, "the wall street journal" giving house with republicans some advice, they said don't take a hostage you aren't prepared to shoot. and i think that that's the view among a lot of republicans in the house that they're not going to take this hostage, the debt ceiling, unless they're prepared to hit it. and remember last time we went through this, there were quite a few republicans who actually argued that it would be okay to hit the debt ceiling, that it wouldn't be as catastrophic as the white house and the treasury department and most economists believe. so i think it's -- i think it's very real, and when you have a senator like john cornyn threatening to shut the government down, we're in for a pretty serious fight here. >> well, we know that congress

had a year and a half, essentially, to agree on these spending cuts before the fiscal cliff and they couldn't do it. >> yeah. >> they've given themselves now two more months. is there any real hope of agreement? >> martin, i wish i was not so pessimistic. i think after the election i was much more optimistic that washington wld operate a little bit differently now that obama had been re-elected. and, you know, if you're a conservative republican you could argue that you wanted to beat obama at the ballot box, but if you could don't that, then it's time to cooperate with him. i think the last few weeks have showed us that that's not the lesson that most republicans took away from the election. and we're in for bitter, acrimonious debate for the rest of the year. very, very hard to see how much gets accomplished. and, you know, as you point out, they had months and months to deal with this so-called sequester, the automatic spending cuts, and they couldn't

do it. they'll do something because they have to, but i wouldn't be too optimistic about kumbaya washington returning anytime soon. >> i agree with you there. president obama has said, though, the gun violence, immigration, they're at the top of his second-term agenda. will he find any support in congress with all this going on? >> if you look at his agenda, gun control, immigration, and these fiscal issues, they are the three issues that divide democrats and republicans more than anything else. i mean, for conservative republicans, gun control and so-called amnesty, which is what they would argue as part of any -- most comprehensive immigration reform plans coming from democrats, those are the hottest, most -- issues that get the conservative right riled up more than anything. and those are two of the president's top issues. and that fight is going to come simultaneously with a big fight over spending, which is the other top issue.

so, again, i don't see the common ground, at least in the house of representatives, and especially if john boehner is willing -- will insist that any legislation that gets to the floor of the house have a majority of republicans for it to get there. and so, again, i hate to be so pessimistic in the new year, but the last few weeks of debate have not really given me much cause for optimism. >> well, let's talk about john boehner. and we only have a little bit of time left, but what role do you expect him to play here and what role can he really play? does he have to keep going back to the most conservative members? >> he has a tough job. it's a fractious caucus. when he took the job, he promised to give his chairman more power and the members more power. he's got a divided republican conference that is split on some of these big issues. i would not want that job. i don't think any other republicans in the house would want that job. and he's got to keep his right

flank in line and at the same time he occasionally wants to cut a deal with obama. so far that's proven extremely difficult to satisfy those two goals. >> going to be a very rough couple of weeks on capitol hill. we'll wait to see how it plays out. >> rough few months. >> absolutely. thanks for joining us today. >> thank you, martin. a disgraced champion looking to get back into the sport? we're talking about the reports that lance armstrong may admit to using performance-enhancing drugs. our legal guys are on it.

it is the most important

legal development so far in the case of an alleged colorado movie theater, james holmes. and it happens early on monday morning so let's bring in our legal guys. avery freedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor in cleveland and richard herman, new york criminal defense attorney and law professor and he joins us from las vegas. let me remind everyone here about the facts in this particular case. it's been a little while. james holmes charged with 166 counts of murder, attempted murder, and other offenses in that shooting rampage in a movie theater in -- near denver in july. 12 people were kill and dozens were injured in that attack. the preliminary hearing on monday is the first time the prosecutors will outline their case against him in detail. and the "denver post" is reporting that prosecutors have created a chart just to try to keep track of all the different victims and their injuries. hundreds of people are expected to attend this hearing. so let's get started. this hearing starts monday. but it could actually just last all week. it's a hearing, after all, not the trial. we're talking about a lot of new

evidence and testimony. so, richard, let me start with you. what is the new stuff we expect to hear or see? >> marty, what happens in this preliminary hearing is the judge makes a determination whether or not he believes there is sufficient evidence to go to trial. now, this probably could be completed in an hour. however, like you said, this is most likely going to last the entire week as the prosecution lays out their case. it's just a broad spectrum that they'll lay out. it's not the trial. it's just a map of what they are going to bring during the course of their case. and instead of going to a grand jury, they do this preliminary hearing on -- >> right. >> it gives defense an opportunity to see where the case is. but, look, you don't need to be a brain surgeon to see -- >> the outcome is not a question. >> no. >> we know it proceeds to trial.

avery, what are we looking for from the defense, indications of an insanity plea? isn't what what everyone expects? >> well, that's further on down the road, marty. i think for purposes of a preliminary hearing, again, the function is for judge william silvester, the district judge in arapahoe county, to determine if there's sufficient evidence. you really don't know what tack the defense is going to take. are they going to sit back, listen to understand what the prosecution is going to be, or are they going to be more actively involved? my bet in this case, marty, is that you're going to see activity by the defense counsel, you're going to see the introduction of a mental health expert. both sides get two witnesses. and you're right, it's going to last a week, maybe even more, because among other things the prosecution intends to introduce 30 hours, 30 hours of video. so that, along with a number of witnesses, will clearly fill up

a week if not more. we're going to have to see which tack the defense team is going to take here. >> and just so people clearly understand, because it does sound very much like a trial, it is not, and there is no jury here pipt's the judge that makes the ruling. right, richard? >> no jury. >> right. and the standard is so minimal, marty. it is so minimal that this judge, i'm telling you, could do it in an hour, although he'll allow it to go. and normally a criminal defense attorney salivates at a preliminary hearing. they want to see as much evidence, as much of the proof of the people that they can see. however, in this case, there's no great surprises here. >> right. >> just devastation. >> i want to move on to the next subject here because it is very timely now. we've heard lance armstrong's attorney denying that his client is talking with u.s. or world anti-doping agencies. >> right. >> -- about publicly admitting using illegal performance-enhancing drugs. his lawyer did not address the claims that remain in "the new york times" that the cyclist was considering the confession as a way to restore his athletic

eligibility, like the way that sound. armstrong has been stripped of his seven tour de france titles and is banned from cycling for life, as we know. but armstrong has always denied using banned performance-enhancing drugs. let me ask you both, if armstrong does come forward and he does admit this, what are the legal ramifications? it sounds like there would be a lot of them. >> oh, man. they're overwhelming. i mean, the idea that lance armstrong would admit to anything about illegal use of drugs, about the lies he's told to federal, state, and local officials and to agency people, there is no -- other than perhaps making himself feel better, there's no legal or constitutional sense behind making an admission. i think the attorney quoted in "the times" was absolutely correct. he's not going to say anything. but the information for "the times" article is coming from the other bike boys, the other people involved with the associations who think that

lance would feel so much better if he confessed. it's not going to happen. th there are both civil and criminal implications. you will never see a confession by lance armstrong. >> richard, do you think he could be criminally investigated as a result of -- you know, if he made this kind of confession? >> marty, he gave certain sworn statements under oath, so could they prosecute those? yes, they could. i don't think they will. i disagree with avery. i think he -- in his head, he has to come clean and admit it. but really, do we as a society, do we care? we know what this guy's done. >> do we care? >> nobody wins seven in a row. nobody can win seven races like that without doping. it doesn't happen. and, marty, as a cancer survivor, which i am, it's a disgrace what he did to that cancer charity. and the whole thing is complete fraud. people will sue this charity. and the people who will suffer will be the children and the

adults who get money from that charity and will not get it anymore. >> so why admit it? >> people want nothing more to do with this guy. >> so why admit? >> weem will always question, though, until they hear from man himself. there will always be doubters. >> right. >> i don't think there's any doubters. >> civil liability or criminal liability, there'd be no reason for lance to say anything. he's already been humiliated, lost his title, it won't be restored and you know what, he's not going to be competing again. there is no logical reason for him to say one word. that's it. >> he thinks he has an opportunity for reinstatement if he comes clean. >> so what? >> it's like michael corleone in "the godfather." absolution. >> so what? >> he'll try to come clean with himself. too late. everybody know what is he did. >> it's too late. >> who cares what he says. >> all right. i think we get it. apparently the two of you have different opinions on this, as do many of the viewers. we'll keep track of it. we'll bring both of you back in about 20 minutes and talk about a case that could make men think

twice before they become sperm donors. a man donates to help a lesbian couple have a baby. then he's ordered to pay child support. it is a great topic. if you have to go out today, you can continue watching cnn from your mobile phone. you can also watch cnn live from your laptop. go to hlntv.com. vo: this week at officemax everything you can fit in this bag is 20% off. saving 20% on everything your company needs. it's a big deal. check your december 30th sunday paper or print the coupon at officemax.com.

now checking some of the top stories this hour, live pictures of protests taking place outside of the jefferson county

courthouse. police say hundreds are gathered in steubenville, ohio where high school football players are accused of raping a classmate at a party earlier this year. gabrielle giffords was in newtown, connecticut, this weekend, where a gunman killed 26 people at an elementary school last month. the former congresswoman survived a shooting roughly two years ago. she met with leaders to discuss gun control legislation, mental health identification, and treatment. these stories are trending on the web right now. a former marine and afghanistan veteran, joshua boston, says that he will defy a ban on assault weapons if it becomes law. more than a quarter million people have viewed his online letter to senator dianne feinstein, who plans to sponsor the bill. boston says a ban unfairly targets gun owners. in minnesota, police arrested a pilot just as he was about to get behind the controls of a commercial jet.

right now we know that he was scheduled to fly an american eagle jet with 53 people on board from minneapolis to new york. but airport police say a security agent smelled alcohol on his breath. charges are now pending. and the fda wants new rules to protect americans from foodborne illnesses like salmonella and e. coli. the rules would raise standards for growing, harvesting, and packing food here and abroad. the cdc says 1 out of every 6 americans gets sick from food borne illnesses every year. in alaska, an oil rig runs aground and sparks a new round of debate about the risks of mixing oil and water.

probably you will remember this. an oil rig in late december that was owned by shell was traveling from alaska to seattle. it was going for maintenance. when it broke tree of its tow and drifted onto an uninhabited island. now that grounded rig has re-ignited debate over oil exploration in the arctic. >> reporter: these images of shell oil's washed-up ship have re-ignited an often under the radar debate over planned u.s. oil drilling in the arctic ocean. >> for both the rewards and the

risks we really need a more open public debate about what we really want and what risk we're willing to bear to get it. >> reporter: popular mechanics magazines jerry boarded the kulluk for four days about two months ago. >> i felt perfectly safe. but it's a round ship, no keel, doesn't have a bow and it rides rough in the waves. >> reporter: that's when under tow officials report when the unsecured ship was grounded wind gusts hit 65 miles per hour, swells up to 30 feet. when it's anchored, it's designed to push down and break up-ice. the diameter of this conical rig is 266 feet from the main deck and it has an unusually thick three-inch steel hull. there's now 150,000 gallons of diesel fuel on board. this native alaskan woman told cnn in july she lives in fear of

an oil spill and more shipping in the arctic. >> our subsistence for the winter, it all come from the ocean. the fish, mammal, the whale. it's going to ruin our ocean. >> reporter: the abundant oil and natural gas under the arctic ocean floor is luring more energy firm, including conocophillips and statoil, to the seas. booming pacific rim trade is increasing commercial shipping in these water, and less sea ice means expanding routes. the u.s. coast guard is tasked to cover an area that spans the equivalent of the continental u.s. rear admiral thomas ostebow flew over the kulluk. >> our response and interest has been how to we position the coast guard and all the federal agencies to better respond to the likelihood of a maritime incident. and clearly that's what we have here. >> reporter: so now the kulluk has become a lightning rod for controversy over arctic

drilling. it was given its name by a schoolgirl in northwest territories in her native tongue, kulluk means thunder. cnn, los angeles. has your plan to eat more fruits and veggies in 2013 already been wrecked by chocolate cake? we'll talk to a registered dietitian.

it is day five of the new year, and that means many of us have already broken new year's resolutions. but it's not too late to get yourself back on track. in the book "new you and improved diet" kerri glassman offers new tips to lose the weight and keep it off. she joins me from los angeles. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. happy new year. >>. >> and to you. some of your tips, the first is people should eat more, not less. it sounds counterintuitive but i've heard this. explain it for us. >> what i mean there -- and only one of the new rules in the "new you and improved diet" relates directly to food. the other rules relate to all of the other lifestyle factors that people don't pay close enough attention to. so the first rule, eat more, not less, what i mean there is i

really need you to focus on flipping your attitude about food. think about what you can eat, not about what you can't eat. so when you do that, and you have a positive attitude towards food and you think, you know, i can eat those blueberries and i can have a little bit of dark chocolate and avocado, when you think about that and the health benefits related to food, you are more motivated to eat well and weight loss is just a by-product of that. i also want people to focus on eating real food, as least processed food as possible, and really listening to your body. listen to your body. stop when you're slightly satisfied and you won't need to obsess about calories and you'll still lose weight. >> that makes sense. there's a part of your book here, you talk about stress. i found this interesting. stretsz is listed as one of the key components of weight gain. i hadn't thought of it as a key component. you say mindful breathing can help reduce stress. i'm wondering just what is that. >> yes. another one of the rules in the book is breathe your way thin. and that is because stress

management is critical to weight loss. if you do not manage your stress, you are not going to lose weight. so i recommend that people, they breathe in for eight and out for eight counts. eight minutes a day. if that's too much for you, start off with four minutes. but this will help you feel better. lit help you sleep better. it will obviously reduce stress, which is healthier for you, and ultimately help you lose weight. it's something we can all start to do right now and something we don't pay enough attention to usually. >> you also say that you can sip your way thin and drinking lots of water is one way of doing that. my wife believes quite strongly in that. but what else can you drink or is there anything else to help you lose weight? >> here's the thing. people always focus on diet and exercise and forget to think about the stress and the sleep and what they're drinking. you know, obviously we know hydration is so important for hour overall health and for weight management. it's something we can all start today. get rid of the liquid calories and even all those diet

beverages loaded with artificial ingredients. and replace them with eight glasses of water. i'm sticking to those eight glasses of water. and a couple cups of green tea and drink herbal tea. if you need the bubbles, drink seltzer with a little bit of lemon or fresh mint leaves in there. but that's something we can all do today that will absolutely help us feel better, look better, and lose weight right now. >> well, just in case, not saying anybody will, but say you fall off the wagon, you slip up, have a panic moment. what can you do to get back on track? >> well, first of all, i like to tell everybody, compartmentalize each meal and compartmentalize what you're doing. if you skip the gym, don't say i'm going to throw in the towel, i don't need to eat well today, i'll start everything again tomorrow. try to compartmentalize and think of every meal as a monday morning. monday morning everybody's always gung ho to eat well. even if you overindulge on saturday night, sunday morning you can still get up and have a healthy meal and get to the gym and do your breathing and drink your water.

>> "new you and improved diet," and we've been talking with dietitian keri glassman. thanks very much. we hope everybody can shed the pounds to a healthy new year. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. a demand for a man to pay up on child support. the problem? he signed up to be a sperm donor, not a dad. we'll look at what's going on here. our legal guys are on it and they'll explain this whole thing to us. vo: this week at officemax everything you can fit in this bag is 20% off. saving 20% on everything your company needs. it's a big deal. check your december 30th sunday paper or print the coupon at officemax.com.

we are back with our legal dynamic duo. penn state back in the news because the pennsylvania governor, tom corbett, just filed a lawsuit against the ncaa over sanctions that it placed on the university in the aftermath of the jerry sandusky scandal. corbett's suing on behalf of the people of pennsylvania basically saying that the ncaa went overboard with its sanctions. corbett says "these sanctions did not punish sandusky, nor did they punish others who have been criminally charge. rather what they did was they punished the past, the present, the local business, and the citizens of pennsylvania." the lawsuit says the ncaa basically tried to cripple penn state's football program to prove that it's not soft on its member schools. how strong is the argument? avery? >> well, ice going to take about

ten years to litigate this, marty. i've got it right here under the antitrust case. but i thought more deeply about it, and i'm thinking, you know what, tom corbett, who's now the governor, has a re-election coming up. when all these allegations were surfacing, he was the attorney general. so you would expect to see the attorney general involved in the case. it isn't. he went out and hired a separate law firm to handle the case. i think that if the taxpayers of pennsylvania want to spend millions of dollars to battle this case, there may be some chance ten years down the road. but the fact is that this fine of $60 million, which penn state has to pay -- and by the way, penn state isn't eve an party. i think a federal district judge in the middle district of pennsylvania where i've litigated before is going to say why isn't the university in there? this is an absolute legal mess. that's how i'm looking at it. and i think if this thing goes

all the way, maybe penn state has a chance, but i think it's reprehensible that the case is filed. i think it's the wrong thing to do and frankly i think it is going to be a big problem at the end of the day. >> richard, i'm going to bring you in, but first i want to bring out some of what the university is saying. and we do know that the ncaa did respond to this lawsuit and they said in part, "it's an affront to all of the victims in this tragedy, lives that were dest y destroyed by the criminal actions of jerry sandusky." meanwhile, is the university, penn state, is basically staying out of this fight, right, richard? >> marty, not only is penn state not a party to this lawsuit, but penn state has reaffirmed they will live up to all the obligations for the agreement that they agreed to with respect to the financial issues and everything else. they want nothing to do with this, penn state. they're separating themselves from it. and as avery -- i got to disagree with my brother avery. this is not going to be ten years of litigation.

this case will be dismissed within a year because the governor has no standing to bring this. it's a technical term. he doesn't have standing to bring this litigation. it's not going anywhere. the argument that the ncaa exceeded the bounds of their authority in a criminal case where they had no independent investigation of their own, where they levied these crippling sanctions against penn state is a nice argument, except penn state agreed to everything. this case is going nowhere. >> that's right. >> i look forward to it being dismissed. >> sorry. excuse me. well, let's move on to the next subject because we seem to have talked that one out. this is one that's devastating -- >> no we haven't. >> this one has to do with a kansas man, he answers a craigslist ad and agrees to donate sperm to a lesbian couple. they have a baby girl. glags to them. the donor, william, relinquishes all parental rights. take a listen. >> i donated genetic material

and that was it for me. you know, i'm not being held to be a parent. i'm not raising the child. i wasn't expected to be paying for child support. >> genetic material. that's a very low romantic term. now you have the two moms, and they're fine with that. but when they tried to get state health insurance for their daughter, apparently the state says, well, we're going after the donor instead for child support. >> right. >> this was jaw dropping. so i guess there is a specific statute under kansas law that applies here. so tell us what's going on here, avery. >> in 1994, kansas created a law that creates the presumption that a donor is a father. it's a ridiculous law, but it is the law of kansas. but it is a mere presumption that can be rebutted, can be overcome. ultimately -- i mean, i don't know what kind of guy is cruising on craigslist going,

hmm, i'd like to, you know, donate a sperm today. >> does beg the question, right. >> but this is a guy that did it. and in any event, i think while the -- i think the lawsuit is reprehensible, i think unfortunately, you know, this couple has gotten sick, they need state help, but the state going after the donor is not appropriate. i think a court will accept marotta's argument that the presumption of fatherhood is rebutted because there was a contract. this isn't to protect doctors, which is what the law seems to be here. it is to protect those beneficiaries of the donor's contribution here. >> all right. avery, i've got to interrupt you because i'm going to run out of time here. i've got to bring in richard. richard, is this just a problem in the state of kansas or could there be wider ramifications i guess you could say? >> there can be, except kansas is in the antiquity age when it comes to cases like this.

but here the main problem was no doctor did the insemination. that's what the problem here was. no doctor performed the ip semination. the women did it on their own. and what the legislature in kansas says is if a doctor is not involved, how do we know there was not a relationship there between the donor and the recipient? how do we know other than having the protection of a doctor doing the insemination? that's what the case hinges on. i think it's bad law. he signed an agreement. the women made him sign it. he has no parental rights. he has visitation -- nothing. they held him harmless from my any financial remuneration for child support. >> who wins? >> i don't know. i think he's going to be paying on this one. i think he's going to get his checkbook out until the legislature changes it. >> i think he's getting out of it. >> we'll follow this and we'll keep you both honest and see what happens. i should remind everyone the legal guys are here every saturday. nice to see you both.

they give us their take on some of the most intriguing legal cases of the day. i'll look forward to next time, guys. this last legal story -- and it's a case closed. the virginia supreme court says a woman's critical reviews of the website yelp can stay on the site unedited. a previous court decision had basically censored jane's review of a contractor she hired approved her own townhome even though a court hadn't determined that what she said was false and libelous. free speech advocates say the decision is a big victory for them. have you ever wanted to just string up one of your fellow airline passengers? we'll tell you what happened to one apparently annoying traveller in the skies. where is flo? anybody know where flo is? are you flo? yes. is this the thing you gave my husband? well, yeah, yes. the "name your price" tool. you tell us the price you want to pay, and we give you a range of options to choose from. careful, though -- that kind of power can go to your head.

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checking top stories, a long-familiar site in northern ireland is now back. rioting. this weekend, pro-british protesters threw firebombs, bricks, and ball bearings at police. eight officers were injured. the crowd is angry over a vote that is to stop flying the union flag over city hall year round. instead, they want to restrict it to certain days. police arrested 18 people. sources tell cnn next week the president will likely nominate chuck hagel to be the next secretary of