when i was a president, i pointed out that human rights would be the foundation of our foreign policy and this is a statement that i made and i wrote a long note on it. and signed it personally so this is the original document. somebody will get it in the auction. now president jimmy carter, i can't leave without asking you about your wife. i had the pleasure meeting her. how is she? >> she is fine. she is dedicated to mental health. she has the first program

overseas in liberia, which has been for about 25 years and she is now helping to train 150 psychiatric nurses because they've only had one psychiatrist in all of liberia. so she works on mental health all over the world. >> now i reckon you will live another 40 years, which is my guess looking at you, what is your legacy? if you wrote your own tombstone, what would you like it so say. >> human rights and peace. aggressively seek peace and bring hope to people in the world. so peace and human rights. >> can't be better ways to be remembered than that. president carter, again, a great pleasure seeing you. >> i have enjoyed it, as always. >> come back soon. that's it for us tonight. jake tapper in for anderson cooper. jake tapper in for anderson cooper. the high cost of healthcare

is enough to make you sick and it's also make something people rich. hospital ceos making 2 million, 5 million, even nearly $10 million a year, running nonprofits. who's paying for it? well, you are. we will show you how and how hospitals try to camouflage the bills loaded with bull. later, why on earth is this man smiling? he came within inches of death by avalanche and lived to tell his incredible story. you'll hear from him in the studio tonight. but we'll begin with two major developments in the blade runner bail hearing. one, a striking change in his demeanor and the twist you would laugh at for putting it in a movie. no one would believe it. a key member of the prosecution, the investigator in the case, a would-be killer. now this was never going to be a run of the mill court proceeding. but the way things are going,

this one isn't even close. and bottom line, one of the fastest runs alive is now on a slow strange and sad walk through his country's criminal justice system. more on day three of the bail hearing from robyn curnow in south africa. >> the courtroom exploded with flash bulbs as oscar pistorius came in. previous days he was visible emotional, frequently crying. today, though, frozen and immobile. seemingly unmoved by the latest twist in an already dramatic case. the lead investigator in the past days has struggled to offer clear evidence pistorius killed steenkamp was removed from the case because he himself is facing charges of attempted murder in an unrelated case. >> the case that is being spoken about, it is a case that took place during the course of his duty. he was at work.

and they were -- they were patrolling. they saw this car. the car refused to stop. they called for support and they shot the tires of the taxi. so we cannot prejudge the matter. it has to be investigated. charges have to be laid and justice has to prevail. both criminally as well as to the department. >> reporter: the police have now put one of their most senior detectives on the case. back inside the courtroom pistorius's lawyers argued that if pistorius really wanted to kill his girlfriend, he could have done it in the bedroom. the empty bladder proves she went to the bathroom in the middle of the night. she probably locked the door frantically as she heard him yell about a burglar. he was desperate it save her life. it was sounding plausible until the state delivered a strong argument. i was inside the courtroom the whole of today and obviously

took a copious amount of notes but the key issue came from the state's prosecutor at the end of the day and ripped apart oscar pistorius's affidavit and in particular pointed out forensic inconsistencies. for example, why were the cartridges inside the bathroom when oscar alleges shooting from outside the bathroom. also crucially and quite damningly, the prosecution stating pistorius lacks a realization of what he has done. because he conceded he fired the gun, the state says he shot to kill. but whether his target was reeva or a burglar, the stark fact is that act is still considered to be murder. while pistorius waits to hear if he gets bail, photos and videos are all that friends and family have of reeva steenkamp. memory answers dreams shattered. >> so excited to have kids. >> gina myers was her best friend. >> she actually, the irony of it is she actually sent me a message in the beginning of the

month. and she said, g, this month is going to be amazing. it is going to change our lives forever. >> reporter: those who loved her say they just hope they will learn the truth about how she died one day. >> robyn curnow was inside the courtroom today. what did you see? what did you hear? >> i think the key thing is, oscar pistorius was immobile, frozen, he didn't move. we've had conversations the past few days. initially when he walked into the court he barely could control himself. he was shaking, he was crying. today i sat in that courtroom the whole day and i watched and listened. and he literally was like this. his head bowed slightly. once or twice he had a little cry but really, this is a man who seems to be, you know, under the weight of the realization of what is in front of him. he really seemed -- i was really struck by the fact that at times, i mean, it felt like he was asleep even or he had

checked out completely. so i mean, i think from what i observed, you know, oscar pistorius is really slowly digesting the fact that, you know, it is inevitable perhaps that he gets a jail term, according to legal experts i've spoken to. unless he has an extremely efficient legal team and they get off on some technicality. but fact is, he admitted to shooting and killing somebody. he thought it was a burglar. and that in itself carries a charge of murder, which the sentence is about three to seven years. things aren't looking good for him and you can see in his physical demeanor. >> arguments in the bail hearing will continue in the morning. do we expect the decision to be made tomorrow? >> i do believe a decision will be made. i got a sense from sources within inside the prosecution that they were aware the case was perhaps taking too long. the court itself is backlogged. it is messing up the court schedule. and also they realize a decision has to be made because of the high profile nature of this. how the magistrate is going to rule, i found it difficult to

judge the way he was asking his questions. and there was this sort of flip-flopping between each side. ebbing and flowing of the arguments as sort of one legal team took precedence over the other, then the argument flipped. so i find it very hard to sort of look ahead and project at what the magistrate is going to rule. but if he doesn't get bail, just remember his legal team can appeal and go to the high court. so it won't be over then. >> all right, robyn curnow in johannesburg, thank you. digging deeper now into why this is playing out the way it is and anything can turn out. we are joined by mike geragos, a "mistrial," a look at how the criminal justice system work and sometimes doesn't. and senior analyst jeffrey toobin. i will start with you. the fact that the lead investigator was removed today because he is facing murder in another case, is this a setback for the prosecution? >> no, it's not.

for a very important reason. there are no jury trials in south africa. this will be a judge trial when it ultimately goes to verdict. a judge is not going to be shocked by the fact that detective has something bad in his past. that is not the kind of thing that a judge who's been around the criminal justice system for a while would be affected by, the way a jury might be. so, obviously, it's not a good thing, but in the long run, i don't think it is going to matter that much at all. >> i would agree with you that if this were -- if they had a jury here, this would be the death mill for the case. but -- oh, are you kidding me? can you imagine, have you ever had a case or seen a case where you have your lead investor on the case, who contaminated the crime scene and by the way, i have seven counts of attempted murder. >> two words, mark fuhrman. those were just racial ephitats.

>> then the defendant got acquitted. >> but there, you didn't have a guy who shot someone four times at point blank range. that is the key fact in this case. and you know, the attempt to make it into something more complicated is obviously what the defense is going to do here. but this is a woman who was killed in cold blood and that's going to be the key fact in this case. and we know who did it. >> i think even the fact that you've got a judge here and that's generally, we have the baseball bat rule in my office. if you wave jury in a case like this, you get a baseball bat between the eyes. you never want a judge deciding a case like this. >> we'd have another trial. >> exactly. >> clearly, i think he has more than a plausible defense. i will go out on a limb. you've got me on tape. i will speculate and say, i think this magistrate gives him bail. i think the questions he was asking are indicative that he will give him bail and i think that, the prosecution's got a tough road to hoe on this. >> i woulde ia different count

the united states. they have different rules. they have, you know -- and so any sort of categorical prediction about how the south african legal system will act is misguided at this point. >> except, remember something too, part of what you see when you turn on cnn or other stations are people in america projecting their cultural kind of assumptions on to south africa. i saw somebody the other night, may have been on this show say, well, he didn't call 911, which factually was not correct. they have something there. but the person he would have called is perfectly normal according to people i know in south africa, is who you would call. so it is not the american system. but i think this guy has a pretty good defense, based on what i talked to, people in south africa, his kind of paranoia, his fear of crime, i don't think that's something that is so outlandish. >> mark, let me ask you, the prosecutor has been trying to

portray pistorius as a flight risk. the fact that he doesn't recognize his crime, the idea that he is prone to violence. do you think that a solid argument against bail? >> no, i think the opposite. i think what the magistrate replied, is why wouldn't he have every incentive in the world to clear his name. and he's got a very able defense team. i think that's very compelling. i think he will get bail. i will be crazy and make the prediction. >> as i understand south african law, it has to be extraordinary circumstances for bail to be granted in a case like this. i don't see extraordinary circumstances. >> if it is schedule six. if the judge down grids it schedule five, it doesn't have to be extraordinary circumstances. that's why -- is it mr. roux, who is the defense lawyer -- is a schedule five. i don't want to get inside baseball, but that takes it out of that extraordinary circumstances. >> jeff, let me ask you. i talked to a south african expert and he said the prosecutor backed himself into a

corner because he so aggressively is pursuing the case the way he is. that forced him to have to present the evidence as early as he did. >> i just don't see that at all. the person who backed himself into a corner is the defendant here. he did something that the defendant should never do. he put forth this affidavit, which locked him into a story before anyone knows what the forensic evidence is. suppose it does show she was not shot through the door, that some of the shots were before that. how does he explain that? how does he explain that it is so dark that he can't see the woman in bed with him yet he can go to the balcony, go back, go into the bathroom. he gets all around there without any problem. i just think his story is preposterous. >> i agree with you. it is extraordinary to put somebody or their story in a declaration, that early on. that's extraordinary. >> you would not have advised him to do that? >> depends.

if it is high risk, high reward, people talk about the south african jails, south african prisons where he would be detained pretrial, maybe this was the gamble. it looks like they are wiping the floor with the prosecution, based on what i've seen. >> is that because of the case they are waging or the circumstances? >> i think they have taken, they staked out a position that i think is inherently ridiculous in some ways. jeff is absolutely correct -- >> that's what a defense attorney wants to do. inherently ridiculous. that's the goal. >> well, they have taken the position, number one, he is a flight risk. that, i think, even the judge or magistrate, wasn't buying any of that. so if that's the case, then that tends to kind of paint them in a different situation -- different light with all of the other allegations that they have. so when you start talking about testosterone and whether or not he was wearing the legs or not, and that, i think, is all going

to be the ballistics, which you said. and that could or could not end up destroying his affidavit. but my guess is that they've been out there. remember, the defense found a casing in the toilet. so the defense has been to that scene. the defense knows whether or not that door was shot through. it doesn't require all kind of analysis to figure out that did he shoot from outside the door or inside the bathroom. and they knew whether or not that cricket bat had blood on it or some kind of flesh or hair. they understand more than we give them credit for. >> continued in the days ahead. jeff toobin, mark geragos, thank you so much. let me know what you think on twitter. follow me @jaketapper. next a friend who says he is certain that oscar pistorius he knows did not murder his girlfriend. i'll ask him, how he can could be so sure. and later, dangerous weather to tell but. what you need to know about all that snow. who got hit and who is next.

also, how is this for a budget plan. congress takes vacation, you get laid off, and they make a promise to cut their own pay that they know they can't keep. we're keeping them honest. a. to visibly reduce fine lines and wrinkles in just one week. neutrogena®. new griddle-melts to yourimees usual breakfast sandwich. week. a lot more flavor. [ anouncer ] ihop's new griddle melts... made fresh and hot! hand crafted just for you. it's like a sexy sandwich. [ anouncer ] compare new griddle melts yourself. just $4.99. it's an epic breakfast sandwich. or treat gas with these after you get it. now that's like sunblock before or sun burn cream later. oh, somebody out there's saying, now i get it! take beano before and there'll be no gas.

day three of the blade runner bail hearing and a visibly different oscar pistorius.

downcast, almost frozen in place. seemingly resigned according to robyn curnow to a grim future. his family calling it a difficult time for them all. they've been there for him, so has his friend, kenny kunene. who has been watching the proceedings in court. we spoke earlier today. kenny, you're a friend of oscar pistorius, you've been in court every day. you strongly contend he is innocent. why are you so confident? >> i have always believed in oscar's innocence, and once he gave his version of what happened on that morning of the 14th, i became more convinced that he's innocent. i don't believe that oscar is capable of being a murderer. >> have you been able to speak with oscar pistorius since reeva's death, either in person or on the telephone? >> i haven't been able to speak

to him, but he knows of my presence in court, inasmuch as he knows of the presence of others who are giving him the moral support and who believe in his innocence. >> had you ever met reeva? >> no, no, no. i haven't met reeva. their relationship i think is fairly new, and as you would have had that -- they met i guess last year. >> you've been in court with oscar. what is it like being there? what can you tell of how he's holding up? >> it's not easy for anyone. i think especially in oscar's case where an accident has happened. and yet you are being accused of a very serious offense. it cannot be easy. as -- as we -- we would have seen in court that it would

break down every now and then. it just shows you a bleeding heart and a good man that is -- that is in pain. with what has happened. and, yeah, it's not easy for him. not easy for his family, not easy for his friends. >> lastly, kenny, as a friend of oscar pistorius, what is your message to people out there who are following this trial? what do you want them to know about oscar? what's your message for those who are watching who think, well, this looks pretty bad? >> this is a trial. let oscar's trial be treated like any other trial. just because he's an international athlete, let us not make it an exception and make stupid, irresponsible

comments that would seem to influence the proceedings of the court. oscar is a great man, he's a legend, he's on icon. oscar is an inspiration to many young people in this country, both abled and people with disabilities. i just want to say to oscar that tough times never last, but tough people do. and i know he believes in prayer and i know that his family prays for him and we pray for him, and i know that he -- they also pray for the family of reeva. but all that i can say is let us all give oscar an opportunity to clear his name within the law. the principle of innocent until proven guilty is an integral part of our constitution.

and, therefore, let us respect it. >> kenny kunene, friend of oscar pistorius, thank you for talking with us tonight. >> thank you very much. >> one quick programming note. we'll devote a full hour to this story tomorrow night. "blade runner: murder or mistake?" watch it starting at 10:00 p.m. tomorrow. ahead on "360" what's hiding inside your hospital bill and who's getting rich off of it? ceos of nonprofit hospitals -- let me repeat that. nonprofit hospitals, raking in multimillion dollar salaries while patients are getting billed for every tissue, every warm blanket, every bed pan. numbers you need to know. >> and later, a young husband and dad buried alive in an avalanche. he came close to losing everything. he will be here to describe that terror ahead.

a massive winter storm could affect, get this, 20% of the united states population, about 60 million people are under some degree of winter weather warning. we'll tell you who is getting the worst of it when "360" continues. [ male announcer ] with citibank it's easy for jay

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of rain, and as we said, it ain't over yet and it's a monster. meteorologist tom sater issing traing the storm and joins us now from the weather center. mr. sater, why is this night different from all other nights? >> that's a very good question. i think because at one point, 20% of the country was under a watch or warning. if you look at the pictures, what is staggering here is, in the midwest, where the snow is moving to chicago, indianapolis, a mix in chicago. some of the totals, sure, 9, 10, 12, even 15 inches. to give you an idea, wichita, kansas, records go back to the 1880s. the greatest snowfall was january 1962, 15 inches, 14.2. you just missed the all-time record. now that we're watching ice accumulation in northern arkansas, into missouri, up to 4 inches of ice, it is now knocking out power. knocking out generators and needing oil lamps tonight.

the triple threat. the other part is severe weather. look where the tornado watch is in effect. south of jackson. this includes hattiesburg, mississippi, and we're into the evening period. remember, it was going to be two weeks this coming sunday, they had an ef-4. it will lose severity overnight, which is great news. but as snow continues to make its way to the great lakes, here are a few totals for you. call ahead if you have a flight in chicago, 6.3. minneapolis, 3.5. green bay, 3. we won't see large totals, jake. the storm is just beginning. as it moves toward areas of the ohio valley, the northeast saturday for new york city, looking at rain mainly, boston, looking at a little bit of a mix, change over to rain. but the flood problems will continue in the deep south. we could see four to six inches of rain by tuesday. now let's get the latest on some other stories we're following. susan hendricks joins us with a "360" bulletin. three people killed and at least three other injured in a fiery six-vehicle crash along the las vegas strip.

police say just before the accident, a gunman in an. suxt v shot into a car at a stoplight. and that car ran into a taxi, setting off a chain of crashes. in central damascus, a car bomb kills 53 according to activists and state-run media. it targeted the headquarters of syria's ruling party and damaged the russian embassy. walmart says stores are struggling to keep shelves stocked with guns and ammunition. a surge in gun sales since november boosted walmart's sporting goods division in its fourth quarter. this sunday's oscar ceremonies will pay tribute to 50 years of bond, james bond. the longest running movie franchise. the bond villains are also getting their due at washington's international spy museum. jaws with his unforgettable steel teeth, is just one of the bad guys given center stage at that exhibit.

>> i haven't seen those choppers since "moon raker." brings back good memories. >> you have to head out and see them. >> thank you. "keeping them honest," if congress doesn't cut a deal in the next seven days, $85 billion of forced spending cuts will be triggered on march 1st. over time, a total of $1.2 trillion in cuts will kick in. did we mention congress is on break this week? that's right. no formal negotiations going on right now. zip, nada. just a lot of finger pointing. if march 1 arrives with no deal, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle say the pain will cut wide and deep. but, keeping them honest, here's the thing. members of congress won't actually feel any of that pain in their own paychecks. here's dan that -- dana bash. >> reporter: pain from forced spending cuts is a week away and lawmakers are preparing their aides for fallout that could hit them like other government workers. >> we've actually budgeted with a 10% cut in mind. >> we re-organized our office last december. we had to let people go then, because we were anticipating at least a 16% cut. >> reporter: get this. members of congress, the very

people who voted to put these cuts in place, won't see any change to their own $174,000 a year paychecks. they are exempt. they didn't include their salaries in these spending cuts. so before lawmakers left town for a week long recess without doing anything to head off the coming cuts -- hey, congressman, dana bash, cnn. -- we took an informal survey. do you think you should take a cut as a member of congress? >> certainly. we're all in this together, suffering together. >> reporter: most lawmakers in both parties say yes. would you take a pay cut? >> absolutely. let's make sure we are doing our part as well. >> reporter: but cutting lawmakers' pay now is not so easy. the 27th amendment to the constitution prohibits members of congress from changing their pay until after the next election. though they can get creative. write checks to the charity or the treasury. ironically, some tea party

backed party lawmakers who campaigned on federal spending are reluctant to give up their own pay. do you think members of congress should take a pay cut? >> i don't think so. i don't think we should raise our pay. >> republican billy long elected to cut washington spending. >> it's such a miniscule part, it wouldn't have an effect. >> reporter: would you take a pay cut as well. michele bachmann asked that question, talking several times only about her staff, not her. >> we'd like to keep everybody on the payroll if we can but they'll have to work fewer hours. we're looking at reductions in staff. that's what we need to do. >> reporter: ironically, one of the biggest opponents is one of the wealthiest. nancy pelosi says she knows others are not so fortunate. >> most of my colleagues are the bread winners in their families. a pay cut to me doesn't mean as much. >> dana, those comments from nancy pelosi, your average american is likely to be hurt by forced cuts, if and when they come, but somehow members of congress who approved the cuts

should not feel any pain? >> i spoke with pelosi, jake, who reminded me that it's one of her mantras that most of congress shouldn't be made up of millionaires. she didn't want the cuts to begin with. she called them a satan sandwich with a side of satan fries. >> interesting. how about negotiations? anything happening at all? or is it more likely that these cuts are in fact going to kick in come march 1st? >> it certainly is looking that way. >> the short answer is, no, there are no negotiations going on to avoid this that i can detect. the president did place calls to congressional leaders, most notably republicans, the house speaker and he is not senate republican leader. but remember, these are just phone calls. there aren't actual negotiations. if you want to know how little is going on, listen to this. i was told by a boehner aide that this is the first conversation the two of them had

since december 28th, almost two months ago, and a mcconnell aide said it was the first conversation they had in 2013. i think that probably tells you all you need to know. >> my friend dana bash, thank you. >> thank you. more secrets. the people who are cashing in on health care don't want you to know. bulked up medical bills that are bankrupting patients while some ceos of nonprofit hospitals -- let me repeat that -- nonprofit hospitals are making small fortunes.

a skier buried alive in an avalanche in colorado. he knows how lucky he is that he lived to tell the story and what a story it is. tony robinson will be here in studio to talk to me about what it's like to be caught in an avalanche and how he survived when "360" continues. [ anouncer ] ihop is in time square to compare

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keeping them honest. tonight, more secrets to share with you about the high cost of health care. what we're going to show you could save you money, possibly

lots of money the next time you get a bill from a hospital. we've partnered with "time" magazine. "time's" special report is called "bitter pill: why medical bills are killing us." a journalist spent seven months investigating and what he found is jaw dropping. drew griffin is digging on our end, finding why a lot of people are profiting on your high bills, even those hospitals that call themselves nonprofit. how are hospitals pulling in so much money? oh, let us count the ways. here's part two of drew's report. >> reporter: pat palmer has built a business around helping patients fight hospital bills. she says in no other business are all of the costs of doing business itemized and billed separately. you don't have a separate electricity bill added on to your grocery bill or a refrigeration bill charged separately when you buy ice cream. she argues if hotels ran their business like hospitals, you'd be charged for lying down on the bed.

>> absolutely. if we went to a hotel and charge us for sheets and towels, there would be a ruckus made over those kind of charges. and a major issue. but let we let medical industry do this on a daily basis. >> reporter: palmer says she found hospitals billing for everything from tissues to little white cups that hold aspirin. everything has a charge. the bill sometimes, hundreds of pages long, have hidden codes or names. steven brill writing a special report for "time" magazine makes just one conclusion. hospitals want to prevent patients from knowing what they are paying for. all in an attempt to charge as much as they can get away with. >> i defy you to take any hospital bill, anywhere around the country and everybody watching this program knows this, and try to read that bill and try to understand what it says and what the prices actually are, let alone what the

prices are based on. it is the opposite of transparency. >> reporter: but not everyone, of course, is feeling that pinch. in the world of nonprofit hospitals, some people are making a small fortune. public records show ceos of top billing hospitals across the u.s. can garner salaries, deferred compensation and other revenues that rival ceos of major for-profit businesses. take a look at this list put together by a health care business journal's review of 2010 and 2011 tax filings, which showed ceos of top-grossing nonprofit hospitals making multimillion dollar figures. watch as the numbers get bigger. the top salary paid in 2010? dean harrison, chief administrator of the prestigious northwestern memorial hospital in chicago. his salary and one-time bonus

earned him a whopping $9.7 million. when we asked about the high salaries and high hospital bills, the american hospital association sent us to taylor, michigan and to malcon henoch at oakwood health care system. even he didn't want to talk about hospital health care executive salaries. he was willing to discuss hospital billing. here the hospital says it tries to work with patients, to understand their bills. >> the information we provide is not perfect. it doesn't disclose everything. and it's not for everyone always easily understood, but it's a start. and i think this notion of transparency in health care is important. >> reporter: henoch admits billing at hospitals can be confusing but he defends the process by noting, say, the

simple cost of the blood draw, have lots of costs that patients don't see. >> the cost of that is not just the cost of that vial, but the cost of a technician who processes that sample, the cost -- a fraction of that cost individual who has drawn that blood from you, a fraction of the cost of that equipment that analyzes that blood sample, a fraction of the cost of that electronic laboratory information system that we need to collect and store and disseminate that information to the physician, to the nurse, to perhaps a number of physicians not even practicing at the hospital. >> reporter: which is why some people may be billed up to $200, just for a warm blanket. it is, in fact, all up for negotiation. if you are insured, your insurance company does the negotiating. if you're on medicare, the government negotiates. if you are paying out of pocket, then the hospitals, paying those million dollar salaries,

determine just how much you will pay. your wealth or your health. and here is a staggering figure about how much money we are talking about here, jake. "time" magazine reports americans will spend $2.8 trillion on health care this year. per person, that's 27% more than other developed nations spend on health care, and hospitals get a lot of that money. >> and, drew, as you reported last night, while there are some measures to try to control health care costs in obama care, there's nothing that addresses these specific runaway costs in hospital billing fees. any support in washington to try and drive these costs down? >> you know, let me put this in perspective for you, and, jake, you know how that town washington works. this is in "time" magazine's special edition. according to the center for responsive politics, since 1998, the health care and drug industry, including doctors and

hospitals, have spent $5.36 billion lobbying in washington. that is nearly double spent by the defense industry and the oil and gas industry combined. so people who make money in health care certainly have the government's ear and i might add they have our pockets. >> indeed. drew griffin, thanks. a husband and dad close to dying in an avalanche. he came so close to losing everything. he'll be here to describe that terror, ahead. ight when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. allergic reactions such as shortness of breath or swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and may be fatal. intermezzo should not be taken if you have taken another sleep medicine at bedtime or in the middle of the night

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you're about to meet a very lucky man.

tony robinson was skiing at the arapaho ski basin in colorado when an avalanche hit. he says he was tossed and turned like a rag doll, upside down, snow in his mouth, thinking of his wife and son. miraculously, a small hole opened when the snow stopped moving so he could breathe. but tony found himself alive. tony robinson joins me now. tony, first of all, i'm so glad you're okay. walk us through what happened. >> i was there alone, actually. found a buddy of mine was at the mounden to with his son. he said, come on down and meet me at the base. we did a little hike up, 20 minutes or so. got our breath because obviously at that point, especially at the basin, you're way up there, and we are all ready to go. he said, take it easy. if you twist an ankle or something, down here, it's hard

to get you up. i went back to my military days and i went back it safety office he and said, what if there's an avalanche, and he said, ski left or ski right. like matter of fact. somebody in the back said, make sure you cover your mouth because i hear it's hard to breathe. with that we were off. we jumped in. i bet it wasn't a minute later, i'm talking a hundred feet in, heard a sound like -- >> what was it, like a rumble. >> more like the earth moaning a little bit, giving you a warning if you will. and then the snow started to move underneath you. wherever you could look at your feet, the snow was moving downhill. >> i just can't even imagine. what does it feel like to be tossed around in the middle of something like that. >> you are basically gasping for air. and fighting to just figure out which way is up and down and there's moments where, like, you're so tight and enclosed and

can't breath and i know at one point, i swear i was upside down. i don't know if that's possible. i could swear i was upside down, rolling down the hill. and i thought, this is not going to end well. >> does it feel anything like when you are caught in a wave in the ocean and you have no idea what's up, what's down? >> exactly. >> okay. >> that's it. somebody said a washing machine. i said it's no maytag washing machine. it's more like a tidal wave is hitting you and you don't know which way up is. >> how long did it take before they dug you out? >> so once the snow stopped, it really like, weights you down and at that point, is when you're supposed to get your hands to your mouth. i wasn't able to. >> you couldn't lift your arms? >> no. it came quick. it comes to pretty much a screeching halt. it stopped, and like you mentioned, a small hole opened up and i could breathe and see the sun and blue sky. i probably was there five, ten

minutes before someone found me. >> why did that hole form? was it just luck? were you just lucky? >> i'm a god-fearing man. i believe luck, fate and you know, a lot of things came at once. to open that little space. again, it was -- the pictures, it wasn't much of a hole when they came to dig me out. >> the smile on your face in that picture says it all. you must have just been -- i mean, you thought you were going to die. >> oh, yeah. it was -- i was pretty sure. i was hoping to live, let's put it that way. i wasn't thinking i was going to die. i'm an optimistic guy. i wasn't thinking, what i should have done in life. there was in time for that. >> were you thinking about your wife? were you thinking about your son? >> that was my only three thoughts. my wife, who is expecting our second. and my 18-month-old little son,

and god hoping that, you know, would he help me through it. >> and the thing is, you actually, talked about avalanches before you set out. but was there any sort of sign? was there any sort of warning? was there any sort of, do not do this, indicated to you? >> my last facebook post was crossing the fence, out of bounds. there is a large sign that says danger, avalanche area. there's sign number one. sign number two on the lift they set off quite a few charges. they were trying to cause the mountain to naturally have an avalanche. there were two signs, you know, maybe a wiser man than i would have said, heck no, i'm not going to go that direction. >> so tony, you ever going to go skiing again? >> i'm going to keep living, keep skiing, yeah. >> well, we're very glad that you made it back okay. and we're very glad that your wife and your soon to be two children have their daddy and their husband. thanks for joining us. >> thanks, jake. thank you.

just ahead, they spent a fortune to get a degree. and now they're driving taxis and mopping floors. what it's costing the economy to have so many underemployed college graduates. that's next.

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