off to lose one pound in six weeks and the anchor can't keep it together to give that story what it deserves. i, too, have lost it laughing a few times. let's move beyond that. i would like to point out there are many more examples of times when i have held it together against all odds. >> let's think about this. >> if you are the adventurous type or like to splurge or crap -- literally. >> subway hasn't commented on the lawsuits but did release a statement promising that it does want to give you all 12 inches. and i quote -- we have redoubled our efforts -- it is the christmas boobsy. it is a beer koozy with breasts.

a concept that debuted at the holiday wonder land that is hooters. >> don't eat my pants. [ laughter ] >> watched it like 30 times. >> of course, sometimes you have no choice and you have to let it all out. >> sorry. [ laughter ] come on. this is torture. [ laughter ] >> part two. i know you got it. [ laughter ] look, there will always be the stories that just get to you. sometimes after all the bad news a fat wet cat is just what the

a major figure in the war on terror has been killed. or has he? plus, many democrats believed republicans would suffer a public backlash if the forced spending cuts went into effect, but the president's approval rating has changed big time. a sinkhole in florida buried a man alive while he was in his bed. there's another sinkhole now and a risk to more americans. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, dead or alive. tonight, u.s. officials say they're still not sure if a crucial leader of al qaeda is still alive, two days after they reported they killed moktar belmoktar. the afp is reporting that the french defense minister said

there is no proof that he was killed. he is a key player, one of the world's most wanted terrorists. he claimed responsibility for the january attack on an algerian gas facility in at least 37 foreign hostages died, including three americans. now, i want to note that we've been reaching out to a source in the region, a military leader in the islamic group. his name is omar. i called him today. he's worked side by side with this man, and usually, he's eager to take that call, to address our questions at length. tonight, though, after repeated attempts, we were unable to reach him. barbara starr is at the pentagon tonight. why is it so hard to get a straight answer here on alive or dead? >> good evening, erin. the reason is it's a remote area. the u.s. intelligence services around the world, all very unsure this evening. the u.s. has stepped up in recent days its intelligence sharing with the forces of chad, with the french, but chad forces

went in on the ground, conducted this attack on what they said was a jihadist base in northern mali, the question is, is there evidence, is there intelligence that belmoktar was even there when the attack happened. is there confirming information? is there imagery, cell phone intercepts, internet traffic, signs of a funeral planned for an al qaeda leader? all the things that the u.s. is still looking for that signals to them, would confirm to them that it's likely belmoktar was killed in the attack. so far, they don't see those signals. >> barbara starr, thank you very much. the question is who exactly is moktar belmoktar? we know he's a veteran jihadist, 40 years old, an algerian, and at least up until now, he has eluded counterterrorism forces for years. we first heard about this man

while traveling on the mali border last summer. a tribesman we were with received a warning call telling him this man was in the area. what's his name? >> bell mock tar, born in algeria, he's been a jihadist since his late teens. he's feared and also revered in northern africa. he lost an eye fighting in afghanistan and one eye is just one of his many names. they also call him the prince and mr. marlboro. a nickname he earned as a successful smuggler of cigarettes and drugs. he's also famous for kidnapping. the toreg tribesman we were with feared he would kidnap or kill us if we went to the town he was. we were forced to turn back. robert fowler who worked for the united nations wasn't so lucky. he was taken by the brigade in 2008 and held for 130 days. >> i was terrified that the whole thing would end with a

knife at my throat in a tent like your colleague daniel pearl. >> africa's security analyst rudy atalla said the veteran jihadist has worked in libya, algeria, mauritania, mali. he integrated himself by marrying the daughter of a leader. he even named his son osama. >> he's operated in that space very comfortably, and he knows how to make himself disappear. >> "outfront" tonight, seth jones, author of "hunting in the shadows, the pursuit of al qaeda after 9/11." he's also with the national security and policy center. and peter brooks, former deputy secretary of defense under george w. bush. good to talk to you. peter, interesting, when we called the military commander today, i'm not trying to read anything, but i'm just saying, i wasn't able to get through to him. usually i am, and he's eager to talk to us. is it worrisome that we don't have a straight answer on whether he's dead or not and whether the other terrorist reported killed last week in the same area is dead or not?

>> well, we certainly can't be complacent about it. it's best until we have proof that we assume they're still alive. and we operate accordingly. obviously, the french, the chadian forces, malians, are operating there. and it appears we're providing some intelligence, according to some reporting in the wall street journal today. this is a very important fight we're in here. i wouldn't take it personally he didn't take your phone call, but he may be on the run as well. and things are a little -- you know, there is a lot of chaos right now with the french and the chadians and malians pressing the offensive. >> people said they could be in the more cave-ridden area in northern mali along the border. rudy, you know him, and you saw him in the piece. he said the chances of chadians, of course, the chad army is the one who said they killed abu zeid and moktar is slim. there's a much better chance of winning the lottery. what do you think? >> there may be some truth to

that. look, i think in this case, from a u.s. perspective, it's hard to gauge the evidence right now. we don't have the forces that we've had in afghanistan or pakistan to assess these kinds of strikes. the chadians, it would be great if they killed him. they are on the ground, but i would be surprised if they had the level of intelligence to kill someone of this magnitude without help from say french air strikes that were conducting attacks on the ground. >> so how big of a priority should finding belmoktar be right now, peter? he appears to be a figurehead growing in importance, but is that true or not? >> he's very important, but once again, as we talked about on friday, it's just one person. it would be a significant blow to al qaeda and the islamic maghreb and these groups out there, but it doesn't mean it's the end of the game here. there's still a lot to do. there's other people out there. the french would tell you that a man by the name of abu amman is important out there.

getting these two is very important but i am not convinced it would be fatal. >> it's interesting to note it will be the second anniversary of bin laden's det of may 2nd, and two years ago, no one talked about moktar belmoktar. he wasn't somebody anyone talked about. the president since then as we know it at the time has been saying al qaeda has been decimated. then he changed his speech to saying al qaeda is on the path to defeat. he's changed his rhetoric. how important would a killing of belmoktar be to this president? would it be as important right now in terms of his influence on al qaeda and people who are considering joining that organization as bin laden? >> no. i don't think it would be as important as killing bin laden. he does not have the global reach or influence that bin laden did. but he is important for one major reason. he has killed american. he has american blood on his hands, and it was recently. in that sense, being able to capture and in this case,

potentially kill him, has very significant implications that if you do target and kill american civilians overseas, you will pay a price for that. >> and peter, the bottom line is this would appear to be, if it is true, that if they are ted, a very big victory, even if it was the chadians who did it, for president obama. >> i'm not sure it's a victory for president obama. it's a victory for the international community. i'm still bothered, erin, by the fact that justice has not been served on those who took four americans' lives in benghazi almost six months ago. so like i said, i would be glad to see these people out of the picture, but once again, i think we have to be careful about the signals it sends. and what we do, and once again, it would be a victory for the international community overall. >> of course, as we have reported, the u.s. officials have said it is possible that no one will ever be brought to justice for the killing in benghazi. thanks to both of you. "outfront" next, a major story involving the cardinal of the catholic church. his admission and why it could

affect the upcoming conclave and who the next pope is. and administration officials saying the forced spending cuts have caused long lines at airports. we checked, and we'll tell you whether that adds up. and dennis rodman may know more about north korea's leader than the cia. what the heck is wrong with that sad fact? day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid

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our second story "outfront," sex, celibacy, and the priesthood. while more than 140 cardinals are meeting at the vatican to select a new pope, the catholic church once again rocked by scandal. this time, cardinal keith o'brien of scotland issuing a statement saying i wish to take this opportunity to admit there have been times that my sexual conduct has fallen below the standards expected of me as a priest, archbishop, and cardinal. o'brien resigned last week after being accused of abusing four men while they were studying to be priests in the 1980s. out front, father albert cutie, who left the church. let me start with you, cardinal

o'brien talked about celibacy and said something pretty poignant. i want to play it for you. here it is. >> i realized that many priests have found it very difficult to cope with celibacy and doubt their priesthood and felt a need of companion, of a woman to whom they could get married and raise a family of their own. >> an interesting thing for him to say. is there some truth in that? is it too much? >> who would ever say that celibacy is easy? of course, we all want intimacy. we have a natural drive to be sexual beings, but married couples find it hard to be monogamous. people who lose their spouses, widows, widowers, they're celibate, lonely. priests aren't the only ones. certain people who are single choose to be single.

if you're not married, it means you're not having sex. priests aren't the only ones who aren't supposed to be having sex? >> father cutie, what is your opinion on that. you said there were a lot of priests who were forced to hide their sexual lives from the catholic church because of the rules. >> obviously, cardinals, too. it happens at every level of the church. sexuality is part of who we are. i agree with father beck that it's a struggle to be celibate, a struggle to live a good marriage, and all of those things are part of humanity. i think when you impose celibacy as the norm for all secular priests, all priests, every parish priest has to be celibate, you're asking for trouble. the fact is that we are sexual beings and i think priests could be just as good and effective ministers to god's people with a wife or children like it was for the first 12 centuries of the church. >> that's the point. it is mandatory and not a

choice. but when they make the connection that there's aberrant sexual behavior because of celibacy, that's ridiculous. >> let me ask you about that because frank bruni wrote about this. he said no matter what a person's sexual orientation, the celibate culture runs the risk of stunting its development and turning sexual impulses into tortured gestures. i don't know how far he would go with that mpt some believe it's more likely to make you a pedophile? >> he did say celibacy probably contributed to the sex abuse crisis. this is what i say to him. the jon jay study that looked at priests from 1950 to 2002 who had abused said that 4% of american roman catholic priests who abused were pedophile. the general population, 4% are pedophiles. that means 96% of priests did not abuse. why did celibacy cause them to

be pedophiles? why does not being married? 30% of sex abuse occurred in marriages. does marriage cause sexual abuse? does being a boy scout leader cause sexual abuse? it's a nonsequeter. >> i agree 100% with father beck that pedophiles have nothing to do with celibacy. celibacy is something that is part of a church norm. and there are many healthy celibate priests, but definitely there are some people, not just in the priesthood, in every aspect of society, in every culture and every profession that do perform these horrible acts with minors, or criminal acts. we have to separate the two. >> you think there's a value to celibacy. you think for a priest like me who is a religious you see a value? >> exactly. and i do think that celibacy has a value. actually, in almost world religion, there are some people

who are celibate, the religious, the monks, certain spiritual gurus, so i don't think celibacy should be thrown out. i think it should be studied. especially for secular priests. you know, father beck lives in a community. he's a passionist, they make three vows. priests like me may vows of celibacy and obedience as part of the secular priesthood, but the fact is we live alone. the great majority -- you talk to celibate priests and they'll tell you the closest priest to him might be miles and miles away. in rural areas they're by themselves. it's a lonely, sometimes dysfunctional life in some cases. >> thanks. we'll be seeing a lot more of you as the conclave gets started. so when it comes to the next pope, it's not just catholics following the story. gamblers of all faiths are getting in on the action. europe's largest book action,

paddy power, has a line on who the next pope will be. the last papal action -- election took in more than a million bets for paddy power. this one is going to be seven times bigger. as you can imagine, the church is not happy about it, saying betting is always bad. praying is the best thing. god has to be in charge. which brings me to tonight's number. 76%. according to a survey by the magazine u.s. catholic, that's the number of american parishes that host bingo games and raffles. church attendance is down in the u.s., and many have been using bingo to subsidize their costs. consider this, the first reported bingo game was played in 16th century italy, the exact same time and place where people started betting who the pope would be. i'm smelling a rat. i'm saying they shouldn't shy away from the bets, they should embrace them. father beck is still here and laughing.

if they're really offended by the idea of this, maybe they should just change it to that. >> our third story outfront another sink hole in florida. authorities are on the scene of a second sink hole about three miles from the spot. rescue crews demolished bush's family home and they are going to fill the hole there with gravel to try to stabilize the area. they still say they don't have hope to recover bush's body and that is only adding to his family's anguish. >> slowly and carefully, crews tore down the walls of this home. they tried to spare the pictures, the family furniture, and even an american flag, but the search for jeffrey bush, who died here after being swallowed by a sinkhole, has already ended. and for bush's brother jeremy -- >> i feel they could have tried harder to get my brother out of there. >> the memories this family is

able to salvage here will never be enough. >> it's really hard. yeah, you lose somebody so close to you, you're with every day. you lived with him, worked with him, with around him 24/7. the only time we weren't with him was when he was sleeping or in the shower or the bath, you know. it's hard. it's really hard. >> wearing his brother's hat, jeremy bush watched with family and friends as heavy equipment tore through the house, revealing the place where jeremy heard his brother screaming and tried to save him. from the air, you can get a glimpse of the sinkhole believed to be some 50 feet deep, and on the ground, you could even see the 80-foot arm of the machine plunged down deep, past the foundation, pulling up debris. the goal is to get the house removed, the slab removed, so we can see the sinkhole. we don't know if the house is going to fall in, but we're going to take every precaution to remove the debris if we can. >> if you look at what's happening, it's very delicate

work because on either side of the home, there are two homes that had to be evacuated because crews are concerned the sinkhole could continue to grow. they say the ground nearby it is too unstable for people to get too close. but jeremy bush disagrees. he believes crews should be able to do something to get his brother. >> they had a hard time pulling concrete up. that means the ground was still stable right there. you have that long arm. have somebody hanging from that arm, trying to dig my brother out. >> the day ended with a burial of sorts. the family gathered the memorials left by well-wishers dropping them into the claw of the backhoe, the backhoe dropped the memorials into the sinkhole that has now become a grave. >> still "outfront," did the forced spending cuts do more damage to the president's approval rating than anybody expected? plus, calling 911 and getting no help. >> is there anybody that's willing to help this lady and

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welcome back to the second half of "outfront." we start with stories we care about where we focus on our reporting from the front lines. first, a breakthrough in the fight against hiv and aids. a 2-year-old girl from mississippi was born hiv positive and is now healthy. she got aggressive treatment with antiviral drugs that started just after her birth. doctors say this is the first time a child has been quote/unquote functionally cured of hiv with drugs. that means the traces of the virus are now so small in her body that she won't need life long children. -- treatment. it's unclear if it will lead to better treatment for older children or adults. we're told the news is encouraging but it's important to remember this is only a step in the right direction, not an immediate solution and far from a cure. >> the trial has begun for 94 individuals accused of plotting to overthrow the government of the united emirates. they are said to have tied to a group that has peacefully called for government reform.

human rights groups are watching the case closely. they say some detainees have been held for nearly a year, and amnesty international tells us they're concerned they're not letting foreign media or human rights media into the court to monitor what is happening in the trial. >> now an "outfront" update to a story we brought you a few weeks ago about senator menendez that he partied with prostitutes in the dominican republic. the senator has strongly denied this. cnn has learned through court documents that an escort who initially claimed in a videotape that she had sex with menendez now said she was paid by a lawyer to read a script. she said she was videotaped surreptitiously and may have been led to believe the script she was reading had something to do with a divorce case. now a massive swarm of locust has swarmed egypt. the swarm consists of at least 30 million locusts. there are now concerns the locusts will move to israel.

a hotline has been set up for israeli residents to report the sightings. sudan has also had problems. they look like small birds. greg sword of texas a&m tells us swarms like these are relatively rare. this year he said the conditions were favorable for reproduction and population growth. >> it's been 578 days since the u.s. lost its credit rating. some nights i think about the number that came out of my mouth. it's getting too darn high. what are we doing to get it back? the dow is less than 40 points away from an new all-time high. >> our fourth story outfront. feeling the pain. that's what the president warned us about when the forced spending cuts took effect. one thing we would be facing was long lines at the airport, but is it true? guess what, you can fact check that, and jim acosta is "outfront."

>> from the table in the cabinet room, president obama warned the consequences of those automatic budget cuts are coming to kitchen tables across the country. >> it is an area of deep concern. i think everybody knows where i stand on this issue. we are going to manage it as best we can to try to minimize the impacts on american families. >> the department of homeland security says reductions in overtime for customs workers resulted in long lines at international airports around the u.s. over the weekend. >> we are already seeing the effects at some of the ports of entry, the big airports, for example. some of them had very long lines this weekend. i would say 150 to 200% as long as we would normally expect. >> a spokesperson for janet napolitano said she was not referring to tsa security checkpoints, just customs lines. they say expect those lines to spike later in the spring as the agency won't fill up to 1,000 personnel vacancies by memorial day weekend. passengers we found said they're

not feeling it yet. >> sequestration hasn't hit or bitten for us yet. we're pretty regular travelers. >> but the white house may be undercutting its case with some budget hype. consider education secretary arne duncan who now says he misspoke when he claimed last week that teachers are already receiving pink slips. >> i want to apologize for not being as clear as i should have been. when i said pink slips, i should have used job eliminations. >> what is the administration doing to make sure these numbers are not hiked? might that undercut your message? >> here's the thing, if you disagree with the cbo and with outside economic analysts who say that up to three quarters of a million jobs will be lost, you should make that case. there's no way to do what the sequester calls for and not create these negative effects. >> americans may not be feeling the punch, but there are plenty of spending cut punch lines. over the weekend, the "s" in "snl," stood for sequester. >> we no longer have full body scanners at the security lines so we are asking everyone to take a photo down the front of

their pants and just text that to us. >> with washington becoming a joke, it's no surprise both sides appear willing to pass a measure that would avoid a government shutdown at the end of the month. >> i'm hopeful that the house and senate will be able to work through this. >> jim, i love the "saturday night live" skit. it captured the whole ridiculous outrage of the situation, but there's still a lot of pressure on washington to soften the forced cuts even though people haven't felt them yet. is anything really going to get done? >> house republicans came out with an idea today, something of a sequester softner, if you want to call it that, erin. it would reduce the impact of these forced budget cuts on the pentagon and a slew of other federal programs like border patrol, like the fbi, but at this point, it's really just a proposal out of the house. no word on whether it will pass the senate or even if the president will sign off on it, so this is washington. you have to wait and see. >> a sequester softener. absolutely disgusting image.

>> think fabric softener. >> as opposed to the other softener. the president's job approval rating took a hit, lowest level. 46% down from 52% a week ago. that seems like a pretty big drop. >> it does. >> we keep talking about the public is blaming the republicans. this seems to be a big move, isn't it? >> yes, and actually erin, there's a new cbs news poll that came out tonight that the public may be starting to blame both parties equally, or at least the president and the republicans almost equally on this issue. there's a new poll that came out tonight. 38% of americans blame republicans for these forced cuts. 33% on the president, and we heard the press secretary, jay carney, asked earlier today, would the president like to have a democratic-controlled house in 2014? well, these numbers are not going to help that effort. >> that's going to be something pretty sobering for them. they have been happy there to get those numbers their way. thanks very much to you, jim. >> you bet.

the woman behind the blog post "i am adam lanza's mother" referring to the gunman in the newtown massacre, will be on capitol hill tomorrow. we spoke to blogger liza long in december shortly after the shooting because her blog about her 13-year-old son michael had set off a national debate on mental health. i live with a son who is mentally ill. i love my son, but he terrifies me. her blog went viral with people loathing her and cheering her. liza long is "outfront" as she prepared to testify about violence and mental illness on capitol hill. when we spoke back in december, you were talking from the heart about -- you said 97% of the time, you son is a sweet child, but the other 3%, he turned into what you called an absolute raging person who has threatened to kill you and himself. i know that it's a big commitment, and it's hard to keep sharing all these details, to go to washington, share them with the country. so what made you decide that you and your son would be a face of

mental illness and how it can cause violence? >> i feel like my name is out there, my name is attached to this issue, and advocacy can be a powerful way to remove that stigma. >> and when we spoke last time, you told me about the mental health laws in your state in idaho. you said, you talked about this emotionally awful time when your husband had to press criminal charges in order to get your son put in a mental institution for his health, for your safety. but he could only stay in that institution at the time for 10 to 14 days. what changes are needed? that, to me, seemed so shocking and so difficult for you as a parent. >> right. and i know that our state isn't alone here in idaho in dealing with mental illness and mental disorders through the juvenile justice system. in many cases, there's really just a gap between an acute care facility like the one my son visited and jail. there just aren't a lot of options. i will say in defense of idaho that advocacy again proved very

powerful in our case, and the state's been very forthcoming in providing services for my son. >> the hartford current and pbs had put together a documentary for frontline on adam lanza and his mother nancy, the first person he killed on that horrific day. various people have told the current reporters that adam had a hard time connecting with people. he didn't like to be touched. he had a hard time in school and crowded hallways were difficult for him. one friend said he had aspergers. and here is what marvin, who was a long time friend of adam's mother, said about adam. >> adam aspires to be like his uncle. >> really? >> yeah. he was in the military. and he was proprietary proud of that. she allowed him to believe that, yeah, you're going to be like your uncle. depending on how he turned out, sometimes people can overcome that with medication, counseling, whatever. they can and do. and i think maybe she was hoping for that. >> liza, as a parent, how do you know if your child is just struggling with issues that can be helped and treated or capable of committing a horrific crime?

>> how do you ever know? i mean, this is why it's so hard for me as a mother to judge nancy lanza. i know plenty of people have judged me and plenty of people judged nancy. it's a hard question, erin. how would you know? i think whenever you're dealing with a child like michael, you have to do everything you can in terms of intervention, in terms of therapy, treatments, but at the same time, you know, for myself, it's important to not own guns. you know, or make sure that he doesn't have access to guns. to me, this just seems like common sense when you're dealing with a child like this. also, i do have a very good relationship with our local police department and the police officers are amazing. and at the end of the day, you know, if your child is going to be violent, you have to report the violence. you have to. >> now, when you wrote that blog, and you came on this show, people were -- a lot of people were critical of you.

they said how could you do this to your child? they're going to figure out who he is. you called him michael. he's 13. that's not his real name. and you also talked about the blog before you wrote it. have you talked to him about your testimony yesterday? >> yes, we have discussed it. i actuality wanted to get his input. he's a valuable player in that discussion. you know, he wants to be well. he says tell them this is important and we want to get better. and he wants to grow up to be that productive, happy person as well. he wants to go up to a be a history professor. he said just tell them we want help and we want to get better. >> all right, well "outfront," dennis rodman causing a global problem by meeting with north korea's leader, or can the u.s. benefit from the trip? could the cia just swallow their pride and say hey, dennis we need help? and why call 911 if you aren't willing to help? >> hand the phone to the passerby. you can't do it, hand it to the passerby. i'll have her do it.

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>> an investigation is under way into the death of an elderly california woman who died after a nurse at her senior living facility refused to perform cpr. even though a 911 operator begged her to help. the employee said company policy forbade her and anyone else there from saving anyone's live. miguel marquez has the tape. >> we need to get cpr started. that's not enough, okay? >> we can't do cpr. >> then hand the phone to the passer by. if you can't do it, hand it to the passerby. i'll have her do it. or if you have any citizens there. >> beyond shocking, a nurse at this bakersfield independent care facility for the elderly flat out refuses to 87-year-old lorraine when she collapsed on the dining room floor. >> is there anyone who is willing to do it? are we going to let her die? >> that's why we called 911? >> we can't wait. she's dying.

>> she begged the caller, who identified herself as a nurse, to help or get help. >> she's not breathing. she's going to die if we don't get this started. do you understand? >> i understand. i am a nurse, but i cannot have our other senior citizens who don't know cpr to do it. we're in the dining room. >> i will instruct them. is there anyone there -- >> i cannot do that. >> i don't understand why you're not willing to help this patient. >> great, then i'll walk you through it all. ems takes the liability for this, colleen. i'm happy to help you. this is ems protocol. >> john weber was a firefighter here for 21 years. he said his department responded offer. >> the calls would range from people falling to full arrest where someone is not doing it. the calls where someone would fall down, they would have a policy where it was hands-off.

they would not help them. >> management told firefighters it was a matter of liability, not wanting their employees injured helping someone else. the tennessee company brookdale living facility that owns the facility said the woman who called 911 was hired to be a resident services director, not a nurse, and the facility is an independent living facility, and is not licensed to provide medical care to any of its residents. the facility says it followed its protocol by calling emergency services and staying with the patient until emergency personnel arrived. now our fifth story "outfront." dennis rodman played diplomat. fresh off his trip to north korea, he's gushing about his newfound friendship with the brutal dictator of a country notorious for prison camps. >> as a friend. the kid is only 28 years old. 28. he's not his dad. not his grandpa. as a kid, he's very humble, he's very strong as a man.

he's very strong, but he doesn't want war. he's a great guy, just a great guy. if you sit down and talk to him. he wants obama to do one thing, call him. what i did, what i did, was history. >> yes, it was. rodman is said to be the only american known to have met mr. kim. there's no laughing matter, but as for a phone call from the president, that's not going to happen. white house press secretary jay carney would only say north korea is wasting its time and money. >> north korea should be focusing on its own citizens and opportunities to improve their lives, and the united states has channels of communications directly. those are the channels we choose to employ. >> is the basketball star making more headway with kim jong-un than the united states? ben, is there a lesson to be learned here? dennis rodman shows up looking a little bit look a kook. he has his sunglasses on inside the studio.

and he's got his dollar bill jacket on. but -- but, what did he accomplish? >> he was there, met the guy, maybe got useful information. it's painful for me to agree with donald trump in a situation like this. i never agree with him. but no one has gotten in there. no one has met with him. he's a 28-year-old. he is taking over for the first time this her mitt kingdom. is there a chance he could reach out to a crazy person like dennis rodman and make a connection with the west that he hasn't made before? i think there's a chance of it. mostly it's a clownish buffoon incident. but if you give the kid a benefit of the doubt, dennis rodman brings back even a tiny piece of information, we shouldn't just dismiss it out of hand. >> rodman said he could be the west's leading expert on north korea's leader. i don't know if bill richardson has anything to say about that. what do you think? >> erin, as an athlete, you have to know sometimes when you're being played. he said something very important at the top of that interview. he said, you know, this was not

supposed to be me meeting with kim jong-un this much. it was supposed to be really small. all of a sudden it turned into something very big. that tells me they already had it planned. dennis rodman is going to be in town, guess what, we're going to take lots of pictures, dennis rodman day all day here in north korea. i think he walked into something that was bigger than he at this point understands. >> when you look at that picture of kim jong-un and dennis rodman sitting together, you think it's a cartoon. it is so bizarre. i mean, it's amazing. >> it's definitely bizarre. but i also think it really does reflect desperation on the part of north koreans. i think that's actually an opportunity. so recently north korea has a test of a nuclear weapon. on one level everyone says that means they're saying screw the rest of the world. we're ready to do what we're going to do, and we're not willing to negotiate. another possibility is that here's a guy who's coming in. he's very green, very new. it's his way of establishing that he's tough.

he's establishing he's tough and then he can open up. there are a number of people, i was in south korea recently and spoke with a number of experts on related issues. a lot of them are speculating that actually he is now in a position by virtue of having done this seemingly crazy thing to then take the steps that he would otherwise have been too vulnerable to take. again, dennis rodman, very quirk ri stuff, very silly, but i think it reflects they're willing to make a pivot. >> ben, a cartoon just came out which makes me laugh. you've got dennis rodman standing next to kim jong your standing next to him makes me appear less crazy. >> if there's someone in the world that can make him seem a little less crazy, it's -- maybe he did a mind meld and got information. >> there's your reference right there. make sure you got it right. >> i think, you know, the upshot is, it's a crazy ridiculous thing that he did. he's probably not going to do

the united states any good or bring back any useful information. but there's a chance he will. i don't see it as this awful evil thing that he's done. >> one final word, though. you think this specifically sets black athletes in this country back nearly a century. >> i went to ucla because of people like jackie robinson and arthur ashe. i don't need my athletes always socially conscious. but i don't want them to be socially myopic. i listened to dennis rodman talk about kim jong-un as if he was the greatest guy ever. there are families who have been affected by the north korea regime and people imprisoned and are going to freeze to death and starve to death this winter. and i just thought about them and how even maybe with dennis rodman's fans in the past must feel listening to this guy praise kim jong-un. >> he used language he shouldn't have used. nobody's in love with kim jong-un. >> thanks to all three of you. up next, what should have been a great sports story about

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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. as well as they could because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption. i started playing football when i was 7 years old. following my junior season in college, i was diagnosed with cancer. the doctors told me that i would not be able to play football again. during recovery, i wanted to give it everything i had, from training to a good rest. i had tweeted i couldn't wait to get in my tempur-pedic. the company had seen it. they said, "are you really a tempur-pedic owner?" i said, "yes, i am, and i'm very proud of it." i can't imagine living without my bed. my name is mark herzlich. i'm a professional football champion, a cancer survivor, and a tempur-pedic owner. this weekend the new york area media was all abuzz. >> groundbreaking moment. >> historic shattered the glass

ceiling. >> groundbreaking day. >> going where no woman has gone before. >> should reverberate throughout the united states. >> whoa. what was it all about? what was the thing that was so groundbreaking and historic? it had everybody all atwitter. >> today loren silberman will be the first female ever to try out for the nfl. >> the first woman to do that, to try out for the nfl. she was one of 37 kickers. her experience is in soccer, not football. but the media obsessed with her. would she be able to live up to the impossible expectations? no. her first kickoff attempt went 19 yards, second 13, well short of the perfect 60 she was hoping for. is it really so surprising? the only requirement to attend one of these combines is a $275 entrance fee and prove you're eligible for the draft. she should be proud of herself for trying. the fact that the media is now tearing her down is unfair since

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