the tortoises' names are henry and alice. we don't have a picture of them, but these random tortoises like like they might be in the throws themselves although i'm not sure they're doing it right. anyway, look, henry wanted to get a little something something from alice and in his state of excitement, he knocked over his oin heating lamp which set fire to wood chips and the room subsequently burst into flames, also burning down the garage. the owners say henry had just come out of hibernation. i didn't know tortoises were so into morning sex, but don't say the ridiculist never taught you anything. tharlsh fought xz the to tortoises's owners escapes safely, but sadly, like a tiny reptilian romeo and yuleiate, henry and alice perished in the flames. believe it or not, this isn't the only story of tortoise intimacy that has come across our collective desk lately. just last month, a london zoo tried to put a pair of tortoises in the mood to make sweet, sweet

reptilian love to each other by bringing in what else? a french pianist. ♪ ♪ >> chariots of fire theme, really? that was supposed to get them in the mood to knock shells. first off, would you get busy with a french pianist staring at you and cameras in the room? but chariots of fire? how about al green, fog hat's slow ride would be appropriate at well, but i think this is the obvious choice to set the mood for this particular occasion. ♪ i think about you day and night it's only right ♪ ♪ to think about the girl you love and hold you tight ♪

♪ so happy together >> that was happy together by tonight, is the tsa putting your life at risk? pocket knives, baseball pats, even machetes back on planes. congressman mccain says enough is enough. he joins us to talk about that and osama bin laden's son-in-law on american soil. >> i believe he's an enemy combatant and he should be in guantanamo. >> growing pains, passing out, smoking pot, fighting with photographers. what's really going on with justin bieber? >> what did you say? >> maria menounos knows him well.

she joins me. >> and also clive davis and his love for women and men. >> found that the attitude in general towards bisexuality is you're either gay, you're straight, or you're lying. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. the stage is set for dramatic trial in new york city. osama bin laden's son-in-law and mouth piece is in a manhattan jail after pleading not guilty to terrorism charges. it's the first time new yorkers got to see him face-to-face, and it comes on a very busy day on america's security front. also stinging criticism of the tsa allowing small knives and bats on planes. they say passengers should be allowed to go on board with battle-axes and even machetes. a lot of people are stunned by it, including my first guest, senator john mccain who is making news right here about it. senator, welcome to you. >> thank you, piers, good to be back.

>> you're all over the news again today, predominantly involving osama bin laden's son-in-law, sulaiman abu ghaith, you're not happy at all that he's been tried in a criminal court. why is that? >> i believe he's an enemy combatant and according to the rules of war, he should be tried as such and he should be in guantanamo. and one of the questions that should be asked, if that is not the case, and clearly it's not, how soon was he given his miranda rights, and if he has been, his good lawyers will tell him not to talk. we need intelligence. >> you said in your statement you issued this afternoon that you believe the american people did not want him to be tried in an american civilian criminal court. but i interviewed jim richards last night, a new york former fire chief, whose own son died

on 9/11. and he said this. >> these people played politics, the republicans and democrats, with the trials of these men. it's wrong. they should be brought to trial. 254 men have been tried in federal court, and it's gone well. now they try to play politics with this. and we have been held up. we're in pretrial motions with khalid shaikh mohammed. let's get them to new york city. that's where they should be, in new york city. >> what do you say to him, senator, because he reflects the views of many of the 9/11 families feel. they want to see justice right in new york, right where that atrocity happened. and they're pleased that he's being tried there. >> well, the last time that was contemplated, as you may recall, there were estimates of the cost of security in the millions of dollars. but more importantly, these are enemy combatants. we're in a long struggle with the forces of al qaeda and radical extremism. and if you give someone their

miranda rights, which means that if they're in civilian court, then they're not an enemy combatant, they're just an ordinary criminal, but if you do that, and any good lawyer is going to tell them not to say anything, that prevents us from having the ability to get intelligence without use of torture, by the way, to get intelligence information that would probably prevent another tragedy and another father such as we just heard from. >> do you have any way of changing this? if they had gone behind congress's back as you claimed, do you think you can get this overturned legally? >> probably not. the president, i think, has those authorities. but i'm sure that we will be trying to prevent that from happening because for the reasons that i just stated to you. we are in an ongoing struggle with these people.

they are on the rise all over north africa. they are in iraq again in training camps. they are in field, coming to syria in huge numbers. so to somehow think that this isn't going to be a long twilight struggle with these people, of which intelligence is a vital aspect of, is a gross misreading of the situation as we see al qaeda resurging all over the middle east and in other parts of the world as well. >> let's turn to drones, and in particular, senator rand paul's epic 13-hour filibuster which you have already gone very publicly on the attack about. you thought he was effectively doing the american public a disservice by putting an unnecessary and unfounded fear into their heads. is that right? >> yes, i think that to assume that the united states of america would use a drone and a hellfire missile to attack someone sitting in a cafe, look,

this goes back to our previous conversation. we want to capture people. we don't want to kill them. the reason why we have to kill them in places like yemen and other places is because we don't have the military force with the capabilities to do it. second of all, to -- for example, to compare killing a terrorist, an al qaeda person who is trying to attack the united states of america with jane fonda, i mean, it is ludicrous. i'm not a great fan of jane fonda's, as you probably know, piers, but the fact -- and she might have even given aid and comfort to the enemy in the view of some. but the fact is, to think that the united states would ever contemplate killing jane fonda with a drone if we had the capability is again, i mean, it's not the world of reality that we are living in. but there are threats. suppose there's another airplane headed for the united states capital, such as the one that crashed in pennsylvania. i can assure you that -- and i'm

confident that we have the capability if necessary, the president, to shoot the plane down. there may be innocent americans on that plane. so it's -- to me, here we have the north koreans testing nuclear weapons, threatening to attack the united states of america. iran, the centrifuges continue to spin. 80,000 people killed now at least or 70,000 in syria. the whole middle east in a state of near chaos in many areas. and frankly, my highest priority is not my concern that they may kill an american with a hellfire missile in a cafe in the united states of america. it's not my concern. >> some are saying that all rand paul was doing was trying to solicit that very confirmation from eric holder, the attorney general, and indeed he appears to have done that and that's

part of a vigorous democratic process and he was behaving exactly the way a senator should behave. newt gingrich amongst other republicans has come down pretty tough on you personally, and i want to play you what he said on fox and get your hopefully very volatile reaction back. >> i first knew john mccain in the house, he was a maverick. in the senate for years, he was a maverick. of everybody i know in the senate, i don't know anybody who had a better role of marching to his own drummer, but it doesn't hurt ted cruz and it doesn't hurt rand paul. it hurts john mccain. >> so the allegation is you're a bit of an old fuddy-duddy now, and the old maverick john mccain would have supported rand paul. >> well, you know, i am always intrigued by the fact that when i disagree with my own party

leadership, like saying that donald rumsfeld ought to resign, we need to do the surge, then i'm a brave maverick. when i'm taking on others, then he's just an angry old man. i'll always do what i think is right. i think i understand national security. i have been involved in it in one way or another since i was 17, and i believe that the priorities that we were just talking about are the ones we should be spending 13 hours on. why isn't the united states of america helping the syrians who are being massacred as we speak? and the million now over a million refugees. what are we going to do about the north koreans who are now basically threatening to strike the united states of america? what are we going to do about the centrifuges in tehran? instead, we spend 13 hours warning the american people that we may put a hellfire missile on an innocent american in a cafe. that was never the case. but there may be an extraordinary circumstance where

there's an impending attack on the united states of america that we would have to respond in any way possible to prevent another 9/11. i believe that's what the attorney general of the united states was trying to say. >> do you have any message for newt gingrich? >> oh, listen, newt and i have been friends for many, many years. i respect his opinions. he's a very bright guy. i'm not going to -- we'll remain friends. >> let's turn to the tsa. they have announced they're going to allow a number of pen knives and other implements of that nature back onto planes, and a former tsa chief who ran the tsa for five years until recently has told cnn that he would go further. he said they ought to let everything on that's sharp and pointy. battle-axes, machetes, bring anything you want that's pointy and sharp because while you may be able to commit an act of violence, you will not be able to take over the plane. it's as simple as that. what is your reaction to that?

>> i think maybe we need a congressional hearing on the whole issue of what is a danger to the entire flight and what we should -- i think we need to call witnesses since they have made this policy change. to be honest with you, piers, i think i'm an expert on a number of issues. i'm not that well versed on that one. it might be good for the homeland security committee to have an oversight on that. my concern is that our tsa procedures have basically not changed in the last 12 years. they're still having to do invasive body searches. we still wait in long, long lines. couldn't we have a fast lane? couldn't we have -- develop a technology where we could all just walk through. in other words, i have not seen a single advance in technology in expediting people through

airports since we put these procedures in place in 9/11. that's what i would like to know about. i'm sure i say that for a selfish reason because of the frequency of my visits to airports. >> i'm in the same boat, and i share you frustrations. particularly it's when i board a plane, for example, in london at heathrow to come to new york, i don't have to take my shoes off anymore. so there's no consistency now between countries and airlines on the same routes, which i find quite baffling. in terms of this knife issue, i just can't for the life of me understand why the tsa's first relaxation of these very stringent rules would allow people to take onboard the very kind of weapon that the 9/11 hijackers deployed to take control of that plane. i mean, they used box cutters and pen knives. >> mm-hmm. well, look, i think it's a legitimate concern. i think that you would have to make -- they're not obviously making the case to the american

people in a way that americans find satisfactory. this is again a role of congress to find out exactly why they're making the decisions that they are. i'm very skeptical about that decision. but i have to tell you again, i'm not that much of an expert on this particular aspect of it. that's why we need to haul them out before a committee and have them explain it and ask the right questions that you're asking right now. >> senator mccain, always great to talk to you. thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up next, a teen superstar out of control. what is going on with justin bieber? i'll ask "extra's" maria menounos. clear, huh? i'm not juice or fancy water. i've got nine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach.

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thanks for joining me. >> thank you. >> this looks fun, the movie. >> it's always a labor of love when you make an empty film, and this was definitely that. but we had an incredible cast. including christopher lloyd, chris mcdonald, artie lange, kathie lee gifford, we had a great time, and it was best described as dumb and dumber meets dexter. so we call it the first serial killer buddy film of all time. and we're going to be in amc theaters starting tonight all over the country, so we're ecstatic. i mean, to make a movie is hard enough, but to actually get it into theaters is impossible. >> i saw you tweeting a picture of you standing by an enormous billboard in times square here in new york. you were very overexcited by this. >> i was. it's so amazing to have that billboard right next to oprah. i was just like, shocked. >> i have also been following

your other tweets this week because it was a very pleasing picture you tweeted of yourself lying backwards in a swimming pool. i think we have this. >> so embarrassing. oh, my goodness, i'm not going to live this down. >> why would you want to live that down? it's one of the great photographs in celebrity history. let's turn to justin bieber because you know the biebester. you have been interviewing him. he's at the center of what appears to be a daily soap opera. first of all, all the topless pictures of him seems a bit weird, then wearing michael jackson masks, then he's not turning up in time for concerts in london, then he faints. then last night, he has an extraordinary bust up with this paparazzo in london. let's watch a bit of this. [ bleep ] >> you're in our way. >> get out of the way. >> [ bleep ]

[ bleep ] what did you say? what did you say? [ bleep ] >> pretty extraordinary to see justin bieber in that kind of situation. threatening the photographer. when you hear the unfiltered version, the photographer was incredibly abusive to him first. i have great sympathy for justin bieber in that moment, but what is going on with him? is he basically a kid with the growing pains of superstardom, reaching his late teens, probably worrying about the image of being a young teen heart throb. he knows for most teen heart throbs it never lasts. is he feeling the heat now, you think? >> i'm sure. there's an incredible amount of pressure on young stars. you can see he's running to the car so he doesn't get attacks. when people are screaming those things at you, it's not easy to hold it together. especially when you're -- you

know, so pressured. so you know, it's tough. i think that, you know, things happen like this. he went to twitter, i know, afterwards, and apologized and said they got the best of him. but you know, it's going to happen. >> this thing of being hugely famous in the modern era, they all say the same thing. 50 years ago, a justin bieber like character would be protected. you know, there wasn't the social media, the twitter, the facebook, the instant photography that everybody now has with their phones and so on. almost if you're that kind of famous as he is with over 20 million followers on twitter, for example, everywhere you go becomes this glorified public goldfish bowl. >> remember prince harry. if you're well known, you have to be on the look out. it's really hard to be on your best behavior at all times. sometimes i'll get all upset and i think, i'm lucky someone wasn't filming me when i was upset or had my moment.

you're human. you're going to have your moment. >> have been on both sides. it's a bit of a deal with the devil on both sides. >> absolutely. i think it's difficult to see it unless you're walking in their shoes and feeling what they're feeling. you know, when you're being picked at all day long, everybody wants something from you. >> and it's fun for a while, i think. >> it is. >> when they get to the point where they can't turn the tap off and they probably want to, by then, it's too late. the genie is out of the bottle and he's the most famous whatever he is, 18-year-old in the world now. >> it's hard. >> taylor swift has come into her 20s, 23 years old. she's been through the whole teen thing. she's been in the news recently. were amy poehler and tina fey a little unfair to her at the golden globes with their jibe about her young boyfriends? >> i have to say that we have to get less sensitives. with the comedians we're starting to get really sensitive to what they're saying.

i know it's hard when you're the target, but amy poehler and tina fey were just having fun and making, you know, a funny joke. it wasn't meant to hurt her, necessarily. i'm sure that was not their intention. >> she said, katie couric is one of my favorite people because she said to me she heard a quote that she loved that said, there's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women, to which amy poehler said, aw, i feel bad if she's upset. i am a feminist, and she is a young and talented girl. that being said, i do agree that i'm going to hell, but it's for boring stuff like taxes. it was a lighthearted joke. that's the point you're making, is everyone getting a little thin skinned here? >> i think we are. look at seth maccfarlane getting so much heat for his, you know, his performance in certain parts of the oscars. i think we're just getting too sensitive, and again, i understand it's difficult when you're the target. however, you should, you know, you should know it's a joke. and i don't think they intended anything bad.

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it's important that women know that they support each other. the point is that people, women gain strength by seeing other women and men that recognize their problems and stand behind them, so it's very -- in that sense, it's very significant. i'm a woman. i have a daughter. i think we reach out to each other and support each other and having a day where you can focus is really great. >> oscar winner susan sarandon talking to me earlier. she spent the day at the u.n. for international women's day. international women's day, what does it mean to you? is it an important thing to have, you think, to affirm to the world that women matter? >> i think absolutely. women are important and an important subject. i think that having a day and an

event where they get together and figure out ways to empower each other is so important. >> the big issue this week has been a combination of sheryl sanberg and marissa mayer coming out. marissa basically banning her staff from working at home. sheryl sanberg saying women are far too passive in the work place. if you get out there, lean in, fight more for their rights. let's talk about marissa mayer first. what is your view about women working from home, in particular, women? >> i think it's really hard to work from home. i know with my staff, i have a difficult time. i know that you can work from home with technology. and there are times when it's okay if they're not feeling well. absolutely, go home and work from there. but i know even for myself, i'm very driven. i'm an extremely hard worker. it's really hard to work from home and not be distracted. and so i prefer to stay at work late and get it done there and then get home and know it's all behind me. for example, we're promoting

this movie this weekend. i had my entire staff there all working together. i'm getting a high off their energy. they're getting a high off my energy, and we're doing better work that way. so i'm a team player. i like working with teams. and so i think that i agree. >> part of the whole having it all thing is of course balancing having kids in particular if you're a successful working woman. you're a very successful woman. you talked, i think last year, about potentially freezing your eggs to effectively try to have it all and choose the moment when you can have children, but you didn't go through with it. tell me about that? >> i started to, but it didn't really work out. i needed some more time to kick start my system. and so i was doing the rounds of medication, and nothing was really happening, and at one point, they told me i couldn't have kids, and that was a really scary situation. but i'm fine. and so now the battle is when. and -- >> i think it is a huge problem

for the modern woman. and you're a classic example of somebody at the top of their game in their chosen career, but you're having to think now about the ramifications of having a baby. you want one. but you know that if you do, everything changes. >> yes. >> to pretend it doesn't is either stupid or naive of people. >> absolutely. and that's where i agree with sheryl. i'm instantly making a barrier in my mind. just like she says in her book, i'm already blocking out possibilities. how am i going to do this? there's no way i can do this. and i'm so nervous at how i'm going to make it all work. the notion of being able to do it all is really a burden. it's really difficult to think if that's possible. and you're making a huge commitment by bringing in a life to this world, so i'm definitely nervous about it, but i love that she wrote this book because i'm going to read it, and i know i'm going to be inspired to figure out ways to put that out of my head, go forward, do what i have to do, and figure out a way. she figured out a way.

she goes home at 5:30 every day, she sees her family, sees her kids, and she goes back to work. can feel like if we as women do start to delete that barrier from our brain, that i can't, i can't, i do it, too, and i feel like i'm a really motivated individual, and i am very successful, but i still do it, too. she says finding the right partner is really important. and i 100% agree with that. i have been with my partner for it will be 15 years in april. >> he directs the movie, right? >> he's the director of the movie and he's sharing in all of the responsibilities and in fact takes on most of the responsibilities. where men have such a difficult time being the man behind the woman, he's such a great example of someone who is comfortable in that position and you know fills the slots where he has to so that i can go off and do my work, and i think that men in this day and age are very nervous about that, and if they just embraced it a little better, there would be a little more harmony at home. >> you're way smarter than that

guy, mario, so you can come back. but mario, the door shut for him. >> thank you, i appreciate it. >> i'm just joking. we can see you in "serial buddies" which is out now, and you're also the face of marshall's. congratulations, maria. i'm seething with resentment. nice to see you. >> see, and that's what she says, too. she says people resent successful women. men and women. so you know what? >> get out of here. coming up next, i talk with music legend clive davis. his biggest stars, his biggest hits, and why he revealed his biggest personal secret. [ male announcer ] the lexus command performance sales event has begun. ♪ featuring the lexus gs and is performance lines. because control is the ultimate expression of power. ♪

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the word legend is massively overuse said in the music business, but clive davis is a true legend. he's worked with whitney houston, bruce springsteen, barbra streisand, and they're some of the lesser known names he's made records with in the last five decades. he's making news with his book, "the soundtrack of my life." it's a fascinating book because of the sheer scale and volume of

incredible talent you worked with for so long. when you look back when you finished it, what do you think about the career? >> the impact of work on me, starting with joplin and going through to alicia and jennifer hudson, i felt good about it. i felt real good about it. i felt that i was revealing and that if someone really loves music or wants to know more about music, i think i've got it all there from the heart. >> this is what i really liked. in the introduction, you talked about the power of music. discovering the power of music has been the biggest gift in my life. it made it possible for me to have thrilling experiences i could ever imagine. here's what i really like. i have never grown the least bit jaded about the powerful impact music can have, how it can unite people in energy and pleasure. i love that. people say about clive davis,

why is he so enthusiastic. why is he lacking in the cynicism that seems to seep into the business? it seems to me it's right there. it's the love of music, isn't it. >> >> my parents died when i was in my late teens. i had no money so i studied law to get above my station. i studied law. five years later, i was made head of the company at columbia. i didn't prepare for it, so to discover that music is my passion, to discover that after one artist after another made it, if you will, and that i had a natural gift, i mean, brought true joy, so i love what i do. i'm blessed in that respect. >> has your ear gotten better, or does it inevitably deteriorate over the years. be honest. >> i like to say we get report cards every wednesday, and the report cards are still real

good. so that whether in recent years it was finding hits for leona lewis or working with jennifer hudson or on top of what happened with whitney and alicia keys and other artists, i feel good about it. i wouldn't do it if the report cards were embarrassing. >> i am not suggesting you would. jennifer hudson is an incredible one to me. when i heard her performing, i sat back watching on television and i thought, hard to imagine that almost anybody you have worked with had a better, more powerful voice than that girl. am i wrong? >> no, you're not wrong. >> she has the biggest, most powerful, purest of all the female voices, but i think history may judge her in 10, 20, 30 years as one of the truly great singers. >> i believe that and i'm thrilled to be working with her. >> the music is only part of this because the soundtrack of your life includes some fascinatingly honest detail about you, clive davis, your private life.

it's made lots of headlines i'm not breaching any confidence when i say you had a very interesting personal life. you got married twice to women, but as you revealed in your book, you are bisexual and you had two relationships with men, including one now. what has been the reaction to the revelations in the book, and have you been surprised by it? >> i have not been surprised honestly. but firstly, for my family, for my children who have known, this wasn't that i was bisexual when i was married. this only occurred after my second marriage failed. for the first time, having failed in marriage twice, not related at all to sex, i open myself up to the possibility of having a relationship with a person rather than a gender. and that's what i turned to. but i found that the attitude in general towards bisexuality is you're either gay, you're straight, or you're lying. for me, it's not been that case. and maybe even though this is

just a part of my life, and i wouldn't have written the autobiography without disclosing that, maybe some good will come of it. >> i always suspected that people who say they're bisexual, the celebrities i have seen who said it, probably are gay. >> with a healthy degree of skepticism, i'm here to say that bisexuality does exist and for me, i turned to it after my second marriage failed and i dated women and i dated a few men, and i ended up in a relationship with a man. >> gay marriage is now legal in seven or eight states in america. would you like to get married to a man one day? >> i have been married twice. that's enough for me. so on that subject, you know, i have been there. >> are you pleased to see the way that gay marriage debate has gone? >> i'm very pleased. i support same-sex marriage. i'm so happy that president obama has taken an affirmative position. i'm happy to see the public

opinion polls that know that this is right and the right thing to do. so that yes, i support it, we contribute to the cause. >> kelly clarkson, got her lava going about your book, saying your suggestion that she was, let's face it, a bit of a prima donna, overemotional, difficult to work with, was completely untrue, and he issued this extraordinary e-mail responding to you. what did you feel about that? >> look, as far as kelly is concerned, and i have been talking about that, we had a different judgment as to how she reacted to two songs that i gave her that became huge hits. and she was gone and behind these hazels eyes, you know, as break away and others, she felt i had a different reaction to a song that she was involved in. we have had differences, and what she has said in the family, when you grow up and she stated publicly, clive has been there

for me from the very beginning. so there are disputes. >> have you spoken to her since? >> this is a dispute, no, but i feel that my book is accurate. i want to say right in front of you, kelly clarkson is a big talent. i have seen her on the grammys this year, seeing her, you know, do the tennessee waltz, natural woman. she's a major voice. >> here's a difficult one for you, clive. i thought, right, i'm going to put you on the spot. i notice it's like choosing your favorite babies, but you're on a desert island, you can take one singer, one album, and one song. >> i can't and i won't. the point of the matter is, i would probably take whitney's greatest hits because each song i was there. and with my a & r staff finding for her, so each song is a separate memory. >> what would the single be? >> bridge over troubled water, without question.

>> and finally, which artist would you take? >> i would point to alicia keys, who with peter edge, i discovered. a renaissance young woman, writes her own material, stunning to look at. a major talent within the industry. she's up there as the bar as the best example of a young artist we can all be proud of. and her voice without question. >> you can add jennifer, too. it's been a pleasure. it's a fascinating book. it's selling like hot cakes. it's called "the soundtrack of my life." available now. great stories from a great legend. great to see you. >> and you. >> we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] at his current pace, bob will retire when he's 153, which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage.

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he's a former president of pakistan, and next week, he is returning to his country. bringing an end to his self-imposes exile. it's a dangerous move for him. he's facing the possibility of arrest, even death threat. general musharraf, welcome back to the show. you have decided to go back to pakistan. it's going to be a risky trip for you. explain to me while you're doing this.

>> it is risky, certainly i do understand that, but when i formed this party, the point was to go back and fight the elections. why i'm going back is to do something for the country. the cause is much greater than self. therefore, i'm prepared to take the risks of the sake of my country. >> military generals warned you not to return last year. and you decided not to and took their advice. the reason you're going back now is because of the elections. what do you see the modern day pakistan as being? and how would you change it? >> well, yes, you're right in the past, about a year back when i wanted to go, there were indications that they didn't want me to come, and my own colleagues told me not to come. therefore, i changed my mind. however, now, what do i want to do? that is an important question.

what does the country have? what potential the country has. i personally believe the country has tremendous potential and it has all the resources to do well. and when it is not doing well, my motivation to go back and correct the situation, bring it back to the level where i left it, is what motivates me to go back. and i believe what i want to do is to create a stature for the country, and i have my own four-point agenda which is internal stability, regional peace, international acceptability, and playing a rightful role for pakistan in the socioeconomic uplift of the muslim world. this is the role i see for pakistan, and one has to correct the vision on terrorism and extremism and put the economy in order. these are the broad strategic objectives of mine.

>> have you seen the movie "zero dark thirty" yet? >> no, i intend to see it. >> from what you have heard of it, what is your opinion? >> what i have heard about it, it's a good movie, all right. but they don't depict pakistan in a positive light. well, there are problems in pakistan, but there are a lot of positives of pakistan. which doesn't -- which i feel should also be portrayed. >> the capture and killing of osama bin laden put another strain on the u.s.-pakistan relationship because of the covert nature of that operation. people are saying that relationship has never been worse. what is the quickest and best way to fix that international relationship between pakistan and the united states? >> i feel, yes, they have never been that bad, and i think in my time, the relations were good,

although we were facing the same threat, and we were dealing with the threat in our own ways. there were lots of differences of opinion, but i feel that the main difference is i had good communication, and i personally believe that interstate relations have a lot to do with interpersonal relations. i are very good interpersonal relations with president george bush, with general colin powell. we could communicate with each other any time, and we spoke very, very frankly. there was total trust and confidence between us. we knew that each one of them is speaking the truth, and we knew that what we say we meant, so these are issues which are the basis, the prerequisites of good relations, then you can resolve disputes, but if there's a lack of trust and confidence, there's a breakdown of relations. i think that's what has happened in pakistan. there's no trust and confidence in each other.

>> finally, general, there's an ongoing debate in america about the use of drones in pakistan and afghanistan and other countries. and indeed a debate about whether the american government should if it wished to, use drones in america. what is your view of the use of drones generally? >> well, use of drones, there are two uses of drones, one is to locate the enemy or locate the militants, which mean the photography part. the other part is to deal with the enemy once located. once identified. but what is not acceptable is the collateral damage it causes sometimes, many times, i would say. that is what creates a very bad, wrong reaction in the pakistani public. so therefore, we have to be extremely careful using drones. i always proposed that the drones should be given to pakistan because the other element is the violation of our

sovereignty, by the way. any drones coming from any other country and violating our air space, pakistan's air space, is another issue of tension in pakistan. so why not give the drones to pakistan? that was my proposal, but we didn't get them. >> general musharraf, good to talk to you and best of luck with your trip back to pakistan. >> thank you very much. i need that. >> and we'll be right back. you'll have the knowledge to make an impact in your company and take your career to an even greater place. let's get started at capella.edu. how do you keep an older car running like new? you ask a ford customer. when they tell you that you need your oil changed you got to bring it in. if your tires need to be rotated, you have to get that done as well. jackie, tell me why somebody should bring they're car here to the ford dealership for service instead of any one of those other places out there. they are going to take care of my car because this is where it came from. price is right no problem,

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