>> when people start to write articles about what might be wrong with the "today" show, you know where you should point the finger? point it at me. >> that was then, this is now. as morning king matt lauer become the new bryant gumbel. and will history repeat itself in late night with fallon versus leno? i'll talk to the author of that new magazine piece. and the shocking tweet from the brother of trayvon martin's killer. both making a gesture we can't show here. but tonight my exclusive with robert zimmerman, coming here to explain himself, face-to-face. did anyone think it would come to this. the white house closed to the

american people for 18 days and counting. why do school children of families have to pay the price for washington dysfunction? plus 17 going on $30 million. the high school senior who sold his company to yahoo!. what's next for the whiz kid? what's your next great idea? >> i was thinking about this. piers morgan live. we start with breaking news. a massive landslide in washington state, a would-be island north of the seattle has destroyed a home. and dozens more are in danger. and one of the homes, richard and jude barker, a retired banker. live 500 feet south of the landslide and join me now on the phone. welcome to both of you. richard barker, if you can tell me, we're looking at a scene taken a few hours ago. but it shows how perilous your position is right now in terms of the house to the landslide.

you must be feeling scared about this, aren't you? >> a little nervous, yes. >> tell me where you were when the landslide happened and what did you feel? >> go ahead, jude. >> we were asleep. we didn't feel anything. we weren't aware of it until the fireman came to our door to tell us about it, at about 5:30. >> and you both sound in remarkably good spirits. if this happened to me, i would be absolutely terrified. how are you managing to stay so calm, richard? >> what good does it do to be terrified, i guess. >> do you know any of the other homeowners whose houses have been affected, jude? >> yes, we do. >> are they all showing the same kind of stiff upper lip spirit that you are? >> one of them at least was that we talked to, because he's the one that came around after the firemen to tell us if they were having to check all of the water lines. >> and have you been warned at

all that this could happen again in the next few days? in other words, could your house literally disappear, do you think? what are the experts telling you? >> right now, not much. we've been told that they're checking it out. and if we need to evacuate, they will try to give us as much warning as they can. >> are you going to stay in there? i mean, i wouldn't take the risk, but you sound very plucky to me. are you going to stay there, richard? >> oh, yeah. this is home. and, you know, we -- we're going to stay here until we need to move. >> well, i completely admire your courage. it's a remarkable scene. and i suppose this is a question i don't really want to ask, but i will anyway. your value of your property must have absolutely plummeted, as well, as well as your land. are you concerned about that? >> our property is extremely valuable because of the view we have.

we have an incredible view. >> well the view you used to have, richard. >> incredible view. but we laughed this morning and said, okay, it just went down $100,000. >> well, it's got a very unique view now. remember, you can sell it on the unique view of nothing. which is what you now have. but listen, i appreciate you both joining me. i love your spirit. it's a true american fortitude in a time of crisis. and i wish you all the very best with it. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> it's great to talk to you. >> and to you. now i want to turn to the emotional interview you saw right here two nights ago, grieving mother, devastated of the death of her 13-month-old son, shot in the stroller, in broad daylight. sherry west told me two teenagers approached her, demanded money and shot and wounded her before killing her son. and then she told me this. >> i just -- i just hope, you know, that the shooter dies. i mean, i had to watch my baby die. and i want him to die. a life for a life.

>> today, those teenagers, 17 and 15, were indicted for murder, since they're both juveniles, won't face the death penalty. that is not the end of the story. robert zimmerman jr. is here to explain this a shocking tweet he sent out a lot of people are calling racist, calling demarcus elkins, the 17-year-old, with trayvon martin. both teens making an obscene gesture. zimmerman, a picture speaks 1,000 words. any questions, unquote. robert zimmerman jr. joins me now exclusively. robert, i've spoken to you a number of times in the last year. i've read all the tweets you sent carefully. and there's no doubt they were incendiary. and i want to draw in particular attention to two of them. one is what you said here, alleged fb picks -- antonio santiago's alleged killer and trayvon martin, #uncanny. second one says, liberal media

should ask if what these two black teens did to a woman and a baby is the reason people think blacks might be risky. >> right. >> now, the first one i thought was very controversial. the second one i found blatantly honest. i thought was bordering on outright racism. >> right. >> it seemed to me what you were saying was this is why young blacks are risky. in other words, that is why my brother george did what he did to trayvon martin. >> yeah, certainly that's one way to read it. and that seems to be the way a lot of people have interpreted it. and i don't think twitter is the place to make points about what you recall a year ago. because the recollections that i have or that we have as a family specifically are very different than what can be portrayed in 140 characters. now, i realize those were controversial and offensive, and i did publicly apologize for them. i don't think it was the right thing to do that way. one -- the point about the pictures. it was a larger point on the media and their honesty in

portraying the person who encountered my brother february 26th. we've been led to believe that it's a junior high school aged person because of the pictures, the way he's portrayed. >> 17. >> we'll never interview trayvon martin. we'll never see trayvon martin a young 17-year-old boy. >> well -- >> who had gone from his father's house to buy some skittles from a store. >> okay. and was returning. so now we're back to the skittles from the store. >> no, but the reason why i want to take you back to that, when you say -- what these two black teens do to a woman and baby, they shot the baby in the head is the allegation they have been charged with. >> right. >> a more gruesome crime would be hard to imagine. you are likening this to trayvon martin, who was unarmed. >> well, let me get back to the first tweet. he didn't even have a gun on him. what i'm saying is -- and, again, i understand it's controversial and i apologize for it and i'm sincere about that. i shouldn't have done it this way. and i don't disagree he was 17. i understand that.

what i'm saying is, yeah, he was 17. and he chose to portray himself by his own hand in a certain way. and at this time last year -- >> well, a 17-year-old kid puts a picture of himself gesticulating in a slightly rude manner on facebook. that doesn't make him a killer. >> no, that's not what i insinuated. >> you're likening him to someone who has been charged with shooting a baby in the head, dead in a stroller. >> those are -- >> those are unbelievable analogy to make. >> those are your words. >> they're not my words. they're your words. alleged fb pictures, 13-month-old antonio santiago's alleged killer and trayvon martin. uncanny. why is it uncanny other than they're two young black boys. >> i'm going to try again. and unfortunately all you're seeing in that is color. and i'm going to try to redirect you to the point -- >> two young black boys. >> they're also 17. >> you go on to say liberal media should ask if what these

two black teens did to a woman and baby is the reason people think blacks might be risky. i'm trying -- >> i am address that. let's try to stay on topic, because i really haven't had a chance to respond. >> explain what you mean -- >> i'm trying to. >> i will allow you to. >> what i'm saying is, both of these people were 17 years old. and before trayvon martin was a household name and before the other was a household name, they had an identity. that they portrayed. and i'm not saying because you flick off a camera that says anything about you other than that is the way you choose to portray yourself. at this time last year the daily caller released trayvon martin's social media records, and we got to know a better picture of who trayvon martin was. those pictures were surrounded in some kind of cloak of secrecy, and they're not portrayed in the media. the pictures you'll see -- i don't know if you'll see them today, but the pictures you see generally. when i'm on your show. >> but with respect -- i don't think that matters a damn. trayvon martin, a 17-year-old kid, did a stupid picture on his facebook.

i've got three teenagers, i am sure some of them would be flicking the bird. it is meaningless. it's meaningless. it's a draw with respect any kind of analogy between that and a 17-year-old, purely the same age, a young, black, 17-year-old teenager, who is accused of shooting a baby dead in a stroller with a gun. >> right. >> trayvon martin was unarmed. >> i understand that's what you're going to continue -- >> there's not an analogy without people saying you're a racist. >> i learned you can't make that analogy because it's a visual analogy and you can't explain. that is why you see the questions and it was the wrong thing to do, and i've been clear about this. but the analogy is, these are two people who chose to represent themselves in this way. one was accused of killing a baby. and whatever is in his social media makes the rounds immediately. and the next 48 hours, these things are very public and very well-known. and this is the self representation of this young man. is the way he's represented in public. however, the other person, who almost killed my brother, had he disarmed him -- my brother had every indication to believe he would have killed him -- his

social media is off limits. the media is not supposed to touch that, because they don't want you to know who trayvon martin was. the trayvon martin my brother defended himself from is not the trayvon martin you portray on your show. it's not >> this is the trayvon martin your brother has told you -- >> no this is the trayvon martin who has a social media account and puts photographs out -- >> of him flicking the bird? >> no, no, piers, this is the tip of the iceberg. this is the -- there is a 2.0 at that people don't want to address. >> let me read you this, this is a statement of marco mara, the attorney for your brother. zimmerman case started the conversation about race in america. we must talk about race in a way that brings us together, not in a way that drives us apart. robert zimmerman's jr. recent comments about race only drive us apart. robert doesn't speak for the defense. he doesn't speak for george. they're clearly very angry. >> yes, they are very angry. and i don't disclose -- >> you know why they're angry? >> absolutely. and i understand why.

>> let me lay bare what people are saying. they are saying that when you, as george zimmerman's brother, tweet that liberal media should look at what these black teens did to a woman and a baby allegedly -- >> allegedly. >> this is what you tweeted -- you didn't say allegedly in the tweet. you just said what they did. >> because the liberal -- no, no, no. because the liberal media was doing it last year to my brother, piers. >> let me read exactly what you tweeted. >> i tweeted it. i understand -- no, no, i'm saying right now. >> but there is an irony in you presuming the guilt. >> i'm clarifying the time line, because there was presumed guilt of my brother at this time and to this day by members of congress referred to as a murderer, and he is not convicted of any crime. >> well, he killed -- he killed trayvon martin. >> the allegation standard did not apply to george zimmerman march 26th of 2012. >> let me finish what i was about to say. you didn't say allegedly. so you have presumed the guilt of these two teens. >> the liberal media did not say allegedly, piers. go ahead. >> liberal media should ask if

what these two black teens did to a woman and baby -- an assumption of guilt there, no allegedly, is the reason people think blacks might be risky. this is why marco mara is so enraged by this. because it reveals to some, to many, i've seen the twitter reaction to this. it reveals a possible mind-set amongst the zimmerman family that young, black teenagers are risky because they're young black teenagers, which many say is exactly the reason your brother george shot and killed trayvon martin. and if he hadn't profiled trayvon martin as a young black -- >> i wasn't referring to them -- >> that he might be alive. and that's why what you tweeted is so sensational and why the defense for your brother have issued such a strong statement. >> correct. and correct to do so. because if i were an attorney and something like that landed in my lap to where it has evolved to which has made a racist tweet -- i made a tweet

about here are two images about two individuals, one accused of a crime, one who in our minds would have gotten away with a crime, had my brother not saved his life. the social media accounts of trayvon martin, the way he chose to portray himself, before he was a household name, are irrelevant. things about trayvon martin like marijuana pipes, allegedly, things we know now in evidence have come out. are irrelevant. it's irrelevant. if marijuana is found in his system, it's irrelevant. it's dismissed by an attorney, and it's not talked about ever again. and the images that are played again and again and again in the media are dated images. and you know how they're quoted, cited, presented, the context that's given. getty or a.p. whereas the images of george have dates. this is a mug shot from this time, this is a myspace page from that year. or whatever the case may be. now this de'marquise, is he presumed guilty? and therefore his social media

owe >> you said guilty. >> no. >> you did. owe let me -- you seem to be -- >> no, i seem to be -- it's 140 characters. >> you presumed their guilt. >> i did not presume their guilt. >> liberal media should ask if what these two black teens did to a woman and baby is the reason people think blacks might be risky. that is a presumption of guilt by these two black teens, the very thing you have repeatedly on this show in the last year railed against about what people have done to your brother. >> and that's the key thing. that's the key thing about last year. the risky doesn't come from me. the risky comes from the people saying we are all trayvon and seen as risky. you know what the liberal media was asking last year, how does it make you feel george zimmerman is on the streets with a weapon. do you feel safe knowing the likes of a george zimmerman is still out? no, because he's a baby killer. no, because he's a child murderer, he's a racist.

those are fair questions, piers, you can keep interrupting me. they were presumed fair that people asked a year ago about george. they're not fair today. to ask. correct? the liberal media, msnbc, is not walking up and down that street asking families if they're going to go walking their babies. and if perhaps if what these two teenagers did, which they didn't give my brother the benefit of the perhaps -- and people including members of congress to this day still don't, if perhaps what they did is why they allege they are saying themselves a year ago, hey, we're risky, and that's why george profiled us. and what i've been saying is, no, that's absolutely not the case. >> the trouble is, robert -- i've got to end it there. the trouble is, that isn't what you tweeted. what you tweeted is the presumption of guilt for these two black teens. and you said is the reason people think that blacks are risky. >> what i tweeted is an indictment of the liberal media -- had the -- >> maybe we should ask if what they did. >> right. because the liberal media did a presumption of guilt on george

zimmerman, starting february 26th, 2012, to this day. and you know how they do it -- >> are you going to carry an tweeting? >> they indict him with photographs of trayvon martin that don't accurately portray the person that george encountered february 26th. he didn't encounter someone skiing. that. >> someone is not dead. >> correct. >> we should portray him ethically. we should portray him the way he portrayed himself. >> he will have his case later this year and i imagine your tweets are going to be used by trayvon martin's -- >> i wouldn't go that far. who knows? i don't make assumptions like that. >> i would if i were them. do you accept what you did was not helpful to george? >> of course i did. this is something i did for a year and did something very controversial. i'm a human being. i'm being upfront about what i did, i made a mistake. and this is a high-profile case and it's unfortunately may not have helped george. that's why i'm here tonight to explain. and that's why i accepted this invitation. >> robert, thank you for coming in. >> thanks, piers.

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gaborik mar hage so nbc says we've got to put an end to this because it's the "today" show. so now they come up with these crazy stories about the other end of their programming day, "the tonight show" so all of that conversation comes up to get people's mind off the matt lauer stuff.

now, if i'm on to something, blink twice. >> david letterman trying to get brian williams to talk about the morning show wars, and boy are they heating up. it's all about matt lauer's future. a lot to get to tonight. with me now is joe hagan, an expensive profile on the story, and howie kurtz. host of cnn. welcome, gentlemen. this is a juicy bone for the media to gnaw on. really morning and late-night now. nbc has been so often in the last few years in the grip of this. how is it all going to wash up? if you were a betting man, where are we going to be in a year's time on the "today" show and "the tonight show?" >> as far as the "today" show, i would say that matt lauer will still be in that chair. nbc paying him a lot of money. nbc chief executive steve burke got on the phone with me to say what a good job matt lauer is doing. now, did nbc handle the oust of ann curry well? no, it was an absolute debacle,

as matt lauer knew it would be, which is why he tried to slow it down. jay leno, should probably look into being on some more comedy clubs, because he may have some time on his hands. >> do you think he'll be out in a year's time? >> i don't think it makes any sense to take a guy number one in the time slot, even though the tv critics, the new york wise guys think he's not hip and he's not cool, we went through this with conan. but it does seem -- haven't seen a single denial from nbc saying the idea that he will be replaced at the end of 2014 when his contract expires by jimmy fallon. nobody is knocking it down. that looks like it will happen. >> joe, you did a terrific piece on the matt lauer scandal being billed into media circles. >> you didn't tell anybody -- >> let's look at two front pages. one is a hollywood reporter, almost exactly a year ago when matt signed this $25 million deal to continue "the today show." and there he is as the hottest

guy in the business. cut forward to a year. a picture from the same set, hollywood reporter had, and that tells the story. not a good morning. hard to think of anyone who hasn't been involved in a tiger woods scandal or anything of that nature whose brand has been so apparently damaged in such a short space of time over somebody leaving the show that most experts agreed probably wasn't working on the show. >> well, you're right. it's been one of the most incredible arcs that we've seen in tv. i think part of it is the view people had of him before and after was such a wide one. the viewers made a judgment on him that was profound when ann curry left. and -- >> was it fair, though? >> i think it was -- it doesn't really matter if it was fair. the viewers were the judge. they are the judge of who has the highest ratings and they have to believe that what they're seeing on the screen, that these people are nice people, they're a family. i believe that, and at the moment they don't believe it, they don't believe it. and i don't think it helped that behind the scenes there were things that were upsetting and, you know, back-stabbing going

on. and ann curry probably didn't help them repair that image, because she was genuinely hurt by what happened. >> it was very unfair, piers. i'm not saying matt lauer is blameless. and everybody knows ann curry wasn't his choice of co-host and didn't have any chemistry on the air. but the way he has been made the fall guy, including many in the media who seem to have turned on lauer -- >> very nice guy. in my experience, very kind to me, with no reason to be. take a little clip now from an interview he did on this show where we talk about the blame game. >> i take responsibility for it. when people start to write articles about what might be wrong with the "today" show, you know where you should point the finger, point it at me, because i've been there the longest and it's my responsibility. i truly feel that way and that's why i stick around. because i think there's more i can do. i can do it better. i still learn something every single day.

and so, you know, i want the responsibility of trying to make it better and trying to get us into a better place. >> that was may of last year. now, joe, here's the problem. as a viewer, i love the "today" show. i actually co anchored the fourth hour with hoda once and really enjoyed it. loved the whole setup there. >> are you available? >> if money is right, everyone is available. resolutely committed here. we'll come to the cnn link in a moment. as a viewer, i can't help but look at it now and think that they've got a real problem. no one seems comfortable. matt seems to me like he's feeling the heat. and why wouldn't he be? getting so much of it. you look at savannah, feeling it too. the show is under so much scrutiny and tension. natalie doesn't seem happy. nobody seems happy. you click over to gma and you see a bunch of happy, smiley people having a party. that seems to me to be the problem they've got. how do you fix it? >> well, i think they have to get over this period of media attention.

there's a book forthcoming, "top of the morning," reporter for the "new york times," they are waiting for that to land. >> which could make things worse because brian has been all over this, the "new york times" and on matt lauer's case. >> they weren't able to get out ahead of their own story months ago. this happened, and they hunkered down and hoped it would go away. >> bad management? >> i think bad management -- change of management. they had -- everybody left. the president of the news division was phasing out. the producer of the show was phasing out. there was chaos there, frankly. >> the rumor today was that my colleague, anderson cooper, had been phoned up by an nbc executive -- this has not been denied and apparently anderson has told his own staff today at cnn, the call was made. he denied to me that matt lauer had called him to say "what are you doing" which seemed preposterous anyway. but anderson also told his staff he's not interested in going to the "today" show.

what do you make of that? to be ringing people up of anderson's caliber and basically saying are you up for matt lauer's job? what does that tell you? >> one reason it gave me pause, i was able to report a couple weeks ago on the daily beast matt lauer had offered to step aside. told his bosses if he was hurting the "today" show he would move on. but i think -- i believe the "today" show is committed to lauer. and, you know, the fact that

anderson was called and it was a conversation, a lot of people who don't understand how this business works, maybe they're bringing him next week. you're always talking to talent in th

marriage -- and the sanctity of marriage, and what it

represents, was important for me and for what i believe in. and the history of marriage. there's also a religious background around marriage. and i'm not going to shy away from that. but, again, there are a lot of people that get married. and there's 43 states that have decided this. and even a liberal state like one man and one woman. i'm not in the minority, but a lot of us have been -- >> ben, ben, actually, you are in the minority, because the latest polls show that over 50% of americans now support same-sex marriage. you are, whether you like it or not, in an increasing and very rapidly moving minority. >> and i think -- >> and piers, i would say this -- >> okay, ben -- your point first. >> if somebody calls you as a pollster and asks you a question about gay marriage, you do not want to be a bigot or offend somebody over the phone. but when people walk into a voting booth and they can vote

their conscience, including california -- they overwhelmingly have supported, in 43 states, marriage being defined between one man and one woman. and that's the truth. >> let me bring in marjorie. >> ben brings up an important thing, i want to uphold history. unfortunately, what will happen, you'll be on the wrong side of history. because there is -- what a lot of people are talking about the inevitability of this. and i was on capitol hill yesterday walking in front of the supreme court, and i have to tell you, if you just look at the audience standing out there, there are so few people that are there fighting this. there's actually so many people who are in support of, you know -- the idea of marriage being redefined. and if you look at even the religious groups that have come out in support, and you look at who is talking about this, and it's bill o'reilly, case in point. even the pentagon came out and made rights for same-sex marriages. and right now the onus is i think on congress and it's also on the supreme court in terms of definition. but either way, it's either by the state or federal. >> final word with abby. could you imagine a situation in

2016 where the republican candidate who takes on whoever the democratic candidate is, would be anti same-sex marriage? >> absolutely. we've seen this issue evolve very quickly over the past ten years. marjorie mentioned the public support for it. we see especially the young generation, the millennials, 18-29. 81% now support gay marriage. more than 50% of the country now supports gay marriage. that's just where we're at. >> can you imagine a republican candidate who didn't support same-sex marriage in 2016? >> it would be -- i don't think they could actually win a general election. is my answer to that. and so i would say to ben -- >> ben, i'm going to leave you with the words "i disagree" and we'll bring you back another time to continue disagreeing almost everybody we put you on with. but we'll leave it there for now. thank you, ben, thank you marjorie, thank you, abby. i like this panel. this works for me. beauties and the beast. next, the team genius who made $30 million selling his

company to yahoo!. wait until you hear what his next big idea is.

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. he is a 17-year-old genius, and just sold his company, summly, nick d'aloisio, not bad for somebody still in high school, what can i say? i interviewed you a few months ago, and now you're the $30 million kid. i know you can't talk about figures, but this must be surreal, isn't it? >> yeah, it is an amazing journey and i can't wait to continue it at yahoo! >> you bought a new sweater? >> well, actually i didn't have one. >> this idea you had, you were 15 years old, playing with ideas since you were the age of 12. tell us about summly, in case viewers don't know it. it basically puts aggregate ideas down to fewer words. when did you have the germ of the idea? >> two years ago, when i was 15, i was revising for history exams in the uk, and i thought with all this information if you could provide a summary the content it would help you decide what you wanted to read.

i ended up working with the w k work, it works on yahoo! now. >> the boy is amazing, the age of 15, a hong kong billionaire invested $300,000 into it, he was then followed by ashton kutcher, lady gaga, all of these people investing in a kid. what was it about you that they like liked? >> fundamentally, i think it came down to the idea, the big play of the idea. as you said, the younger generation, and the mobile phone this technology has the way to change how people consume the content. they backed the idea, and yes, because i'm young, it helped it. >> what will yahoo! do with the idea? is there a fear they will take it, park it into one of their things and that is the last you will see it it -- of it. do you hope it will become a bigger deal.

>> the ceo, a product person, there is so much more technology, our technology will be integrated on the global scale at yahoo! >> a lot of bitchiness, they're saying what are they doing giving a 15-year-old kid this money? >> i think from my perspective, we have the robust ip, that we have been developing. one of the people who is a professor in his late 50s, actually wrote the original book on summly. he said we have serious technology and big plans for it. >> you think he is taking on the new campaign because he is worth it? >> i do have a girlfriend. >> really? >> how is she feeling about the fact you're now worth $30 million. >> i don't think it really comes into it. >> we'll have a beer in the back stage, and talk about it.

nick, very proud of you, a british entrepreneur, great to see you kicking butt, my kids will love the app, well done. we'll be right back. hmmm. uh... yeah, can you find a take where it's a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah? yeah i got it right here. someone help me!!! i have a flat tire!!! well it's good... good for me. what do you think? geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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