tonight, the untold story of the son of god. >> he was defending the unclean. he was defending the ostracized. >> killing jesus. >> that deals with one of the great lies that comes out of the crucifixion of jesus. >> best-selling author steven mansfield on why he thinks mel gibson didn't go far enough. also, hand picked to be the president's officer in chief. plus, the brothers emanuel. >> i know that if i had to be in a foxhole ever, it's my two brothers who i want right by my side. >> he spends every night with taylor swift.

>> people say she's dating them. >> but she hasn't written a song about him yet. my exclusive with the pop superstar. this is "piers morgan live." today is good friday, hon of the holiest days of christians in america and around the world. of course, in just two days, it's easter sunday. it arrives with something else. a shocking new book on the death of jesus. it's called "killing jesus" and claims to have new insight and revelations into how he was murdered. the best-selling author is steven mansfield and he joins me now. welcome to you. this is probably the most talked-about, written-about, debated over murder in the history of mankind. what have you unearthed of this book that is new? >> well, you know, when you read the bible, you hear very spare statements like "and they flogged him" or "and they crucified him."

what does that mean? often we don't go to the roman sources, we don't go to the original documents that are behind the biblical account. so to find out, for example, that a roman scourging was not just a lacerating like on the bounty, for example, but it was -- there were rocks and sheet bone actually woven into the leather straps and the idea of a roman scourging was to rip the flesh from the body. one man who actually survived one had his bones exposed around his entire chest, his ribs were actually exposed. this helps us understand more of what was going on and what the history is behind those spare accounts that we tend to have in scripture. >> have you learned more about the kind of politics and religious corruption that led to the murder of jesus christ? >> yes. in fact, what i learned deals with one of the great lies that comes out of the crucifixion of jesus. that is all the jews opposed him and his death should be on all the jews. instead there was a small sort

of sopranos like family that ruled the temple, was the high priest's family, and they were very turned towards rome as were a number of others in their little conspiracy. they controlled the trade in the temple and made a cut of all the trade, the exchange of money and the sale of animals and so on, and they were trying to hang on to their power. they were trying to keep the nation, as they said. and so jesus challenged that when he went and drove the money changers out of the temple. he wasn't just mad, he wasn't just upset that they were doing business in the temple. he was striking at this conspiracy that had illicitly taken charge of the temple and its trade, the corrupt upper leaders of the jews. so that's sort of the back story of the crucifixion. >> it's bound to be and is already getting a huge amount of attention. the book's not even out until may. you're bound to get some people saying this is antisemetic and so on. what is your response to that? >> well, it's not at all antisemetic. in fact, in making that distinction between the small group of leaders who were kowtowing to rome and thus were

corrupt and going after jesus, making a distinction between them and the average jew on the street in jerusalem, i'm actually dealing with that very issue. the fact is that jesus was quite popular with the people. that's why this small group of leaders tried him overnight. that's why they were concerned that the crowds would rise up, that he could lead a rebellion, and when they paraded him to the streets the next day after that overnight trial, and took him out to be crucified, the people wept and wailed so the idea that all the jews of that time crucified jesus and were part of that conspiracy is false. in making that distinction i'm trying to strike at that antisemetic lie that existed all throughout our history. >> you are a serious scholar. you studied this since the '70s so there is probably very little that you haven't read or seen or talked about with other experts. in terms of the mythology around the death of jesus christ, what would you say now is definitely myth and what is indisputable pretty well widely agreed fact

about what happened? >> well, there's no question there was a jesus. many people don't think there's evidence outside of the bible. there is. there was a jesus. he was a leader. he did teach. he was crucified under pontius pilate. this is affirmed by roman sources. and he was perceived as a threat to the nation in the sense that he might prompt rome to see what he was doing as a political move for control of judea. so all of that's confirmed. now, of course, there are those matters of faith, the resurrection, the miracles, things of that nature. but the idea that there was a jesus christ who did live when the bible says he lived and was a threat to rome and therefore, a small group of jewish leaders sort of conspired against him, that's all affirmed in sources outside of the bible. that helps me understand the bible better. >> in terms of stuff that is maybe widely held beliefs about jesus christ and the crucifixion and so on, what can you now rule out? what do you think was built up that is just not true? >> well, i think a lot of the

sort of sunday school, if i may say it that way, images about the cross, the crucifixion, sometimes these are almost -- almost placid in their presentation, a calm jesus hanging on the cross. this is not the case at all. the fact, some of the teachings of jesus come into question. i have to say that the jesus i present in this book is very much a social justice jesus. the reason he clears the temple is not just to strike at that conspiracy that i mentioned but also because he's defending the gentiles. this trade, these money changers have set up in the only court, the gentiles have to pray. so in driving the money changers out, he wasn't just anti-business and he wasn't just going after that sopranos like conspiracy. he was defending the unclean. he was defending the ostracized. so those themes begin to make a more holistic picture of jesus that i think is compelling and deals with some of the myths. >> the cover of your book features a picture of the famous turin shroud and the shroud is by coincidence to be shown on

television for the first time tomorrow, easter saturday, at a time when new claims have emerged that the fabric is not a forgery, as many have claimed, but instead really does date back to around jesus' lifetime. these claims are published in a new book called "the mystery of the shroud" by a professor at padua university. where are we with the shroud? do you think there is now irrefutable evidence from a scholastic point of view that it does date to at least the time when jesus was alive? >> well, you have been very kind to me in calling me a scholar. my doctorate is actually in american history so i'm learned with everybody else in this field. my understanding is that there's not unshakeable evidence, but it's not -- it's more difficult to dismiss the shroud now. some of the scientific evidence has proven that it is as you say, older, that there are some inexplicable factors in the stains and the composition of it and my publisher and i put it on our book because it's an icon of

jesus and this generation. people say maybe that's the oldest picture of jesus. they don't think of it as something that has to be scientifically confirmed but i am fascinated since i've got that image on my book with what they're going to be uncovering throughout this process of deeper scientific investigation. >> definitely. one of the most contentious scenes from the passion of christ, mel gibson's very controversial movie, depicted the crucifixion, of course, and he was lambasted for this. your book sounds to me not just a vindication of mel gibson but perhaps he didn't go far enough. >> well, this is part of the problem. in an easter sunday morning sermon or good friday sermon in mel gibson's film, how can you depict a man being scourged to the point where the flesh is being ripped from his body, how can you depict a man whose back is in shreds, moving up and down on the cross, gasping for breath, pushing down on those nails through his feet. it's so much beyond what mel

gibson could have portrayed, or what a pastor or priest could portray on an easter sunday morning, that we really don't have a good picture. that's why i think i chose a book to make that presentation, because it was more digestible but we just have so much confirmation, it's just a very, very bloody, vile, horrible scene. some of the victims of scourging would have their organs exposed. i can just go on and on. i don't want to gross people out. but yes, i think mel could have gone much further and i know it's rather unpopular to say it but he probably was more tempered than we know. and he should be commended for that. >> a fascinating book. it's out in may. getting a lot of attention. thank you for joining me. >> great to be with you. coming up, the president's former pastor in chief on god and country. and the very personal advice he gives to barack obama. [ female announcer ] born from the sweet monk fruit, something this delicious could only come from nature. discover nectresse™. the 100%-natural no-calorie sweetener

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president obama struggles with questions of his faith, he turns to my next guest, who held the highest religious outreach job at the white house. pastor dubois was named the president's pastor in chief. he stepped down in january and is on a new mission. welcome to you, sir. >> piers, a pleasure to be on with you. happy good friday to you. >> the same to you. what is it like being called the pastor in chief to the president of the united states? >> well, you know, it's been an honor to work for this president. this is a president who takes his faith very seriously and is a deeply faithful person. and in many ways, actually typifies what i think is the new believer in this country, folks who want their faith to be known more for what they're for rather than what they're against. i was able to see that first-hand in private ways, in

the way the president received devotionals and spent time in prayer with pastors around the country but also in public ways, in the way his faith motivated his approach to issues in public life from compassionate immigration reform to issues related to gun violence. it was really an honor to have that front row seat to the president's values. >> the president has described the newtown atrocity as one of the biggest tests of his presidency for him personally. you went down to newtown with the president when he visited soon after that happened. describe what that was like for you and for him, and the test of his faith, when something like that happens, you're the president of the united states and 20 children are obliterated, that is a test of anybody's faith. describe to me i guess the emotional journey you both went on when you went down there. >> you know, piers, gut-wrenching doesn't really describe it.

i did go with the president to newtown and i saw the leader of the free world, the president of the united states, have to hold parents closely, had to console folks who had just 48 hours before had their children ripped from them in a hail of bullets. the depth of evil that they experienced, the brokenness that we felt in that place, is something that i will never forget. you know, jesus three times in the gospel says that one of the worst things that people can do, one of the worst sins we can commit is to cause our little children to stumble, and from newtown to the streets of new york and chicago, our kids aren't just stumbling, piers, they're dying. and that reality really settled in with me in newtown in those private moments with those parents. >> what do you say to the president at a time like that? >> you know, we spent a lot of

time meditating on scripture, second corinthians, where it talks about how outwardly we are wasting away but inwardly we are being renewed day by day because our light and momentary troubles are leading to something better. these broken bodies will be restored. that's the gist of those passages. but in many ways, you know, there's not a lot you can say. you just have to be present and the president was present for those parents at the time. he held them closely. for the little brothers and sisters of the lost, he would toss them up in the air and try to bring a little bit of laughter and levity in that horrible moment. so just his presence meant a lot to them and i just, you know, to the extent that i could, i tried to be present for him. but then he started moving on to talk about what's next, what can we do in response to this, how can we not move on from the moment, but how can we use this, this horrible tragedy, to

motivate action on behalf of our kids. and that's what the president moved swiftly to do. >> one of the other great dilemmas i think for any christian in america right now is the debate over gay marriage and gay rights. it's moving very fast in public opinion. the president himself has moved his position in the last few years. what do you say, as a pastor, that has to talk to people who may be confused about this, what do you say about the evolution, i guess, of gay rights and gay marriage in america? >> i would say in general terms, people of faith in this country have to be known more by what they're for than what they're against. when the public face of christianity in this country is in too many ways defined by issues that divide us rather than issues that bring us together, there's a problem with that. and you know, that doesn't mean

that we can't have sincere disagreements on ttheological issues but once the issues are stated we have to find ways to come together to talk about the points we have in common, to talk about the love we have for one another, for straight folks, for gay folks, for our entire country. i think the faith community has got to, again, to focus more on the things that we have in common rather than the things that divide us. now, fortunately there are a lot of christians that do focus on those points of commonality but they're not the ones that we see the most on our tv screens. they're not the ones whose voices are the loudest. >> a lot of people fall back on the scriptures as their basis for opposing gay marriage, for example. they say look, it's not in the bible, it wasn't what was intended, you know. god never wanted anything other than a man and a woman to marry and so on. as somebody who is very well versed in the scriptures and indeed uses them a lot and has

done with the president, what do you say to those people who use the bible and its scriptures as a sacrosanct defense, if you like, against moving times? >> you know, it's something that i think we have to grapple with because on the one hand as you highlight, piers, there are verses in the old testament and the new from deuteronomy to the apostle paul that speak to issues related to homosexuality. on the other hand, jesus said that the two greatest commandments are to love god and to love your neighbor and to let that spirit of love dominate in terms of your actions and the way that you approach the world. the epistles go on to say the greatest of all of these things is love. so we can't talk about one aspect of the bible but not speak to the leading factor, the factor that christ highlighted the most, which is the love that we have to share for our neighbors. that includes our gay neighbors. >> there's a lot of conjecture at the moment about whether

religion is slowly going out of fashion in america. church attendance is, as they are in most countries around the world, have been falling. there's a sense that young people aren't as energized by perhaps religious conviction as their predecessors and their parents and so on, yet at the same time, you have the astonishing ratings success of the bible series, the mark burnett series which took everyone by surprise and seemed to reenergize typically amongst the young an interest in all things religious. what do you make of what is going on here? >> yeah. i think it's a dynamic time for religion in this country. there is the dynamic of the rise of the nuns as you say and folks who don't adhere to a particular religion but then you have this phenomenal series that is really reinvigorating interest in the bible. i saw that the bible was trending on twitter for the first time ever. i think that's a great thing. i think it's prompting tremendous debates about theology and about the way that we look at our faith in the world. i would say another dynamic

that's increasing interest in religion is the election of pope francis and the interest that people have in his papacy. i think that's an invigorating conversation about theology, unlike one that we've had in a long time. i think that's a very good thing. >> what i like about pope francis, he's obviously got genuine humility and he's immediately renounced all the trappings that go with being pope, the vatican and so on, which i think was a really smart thing to do. because the pope should be a man of humility and yet it's very easy when they get that lofty, incredible job presiding over 1.2 billion catholics, including myself, to fall, i guess, for all the, you know, the financial benefits that come with it, the thrones and the cars and so on. >> that's exactly right, piers. you know, i noted that yesterday on holy thursday, the pope spent his time in a jail. he was washing the feet of prisoners and really emphasizing that message of redemption and a second chance.

what an amazing sight to see the holy father, the pope, washing feet of prisoners. i have to give credit to cardinal dolan in new york who did the exact same thing and visited a prison and spent his holy week in that way as well. i think there's a time of soul searching happening in the catholic church, where they're thinking about how to bring a spirit of humility to the debates that we're facing as a world. i think that's a very, very good thing. >> you're in retirement. you don't look old enough to have even started work, let alone retire because you were so young when you began with barack obama. you've got a book, daily biblical scriptures and inspirations for leaders. before we get to that, very quickly, will you still be sending the president scriptures and what is the kind of thing you used to e-mail him which really moved him? >> sure. yes, i still send the president a meditation every morning and i'm just grateful for a leader who begins his day in a moment of reflection and scripture reading and prayer. you know, we explored a number

of topics and continue to explore a lot of different topics. a few of the themes that we would address the most, one is how to find joy in the midst of tough circumstances. we would look at the person, the biblical person of david, a leader who was always able to find joy. we would also look at how we can love our enemies even those who are really challenging for us, and model ourselves after jesus and really reflect on that as well. so lots of different themes for different occasions, but you know, i'm honored to continue to send those to the president, and i'm glad that he said he's found them useful. >> if there was one scripture that you could use or one extract from a scripture that you would send to any would-be president, which one would you choose? >> it's a great question, piers. there's so many that provide inspiration. i'll tell you one of the president's favorites. it's from the prophet isaiah. it's one he often comes back to and it's even used in speeches. they that wait upon the lord

shall renew their strength, they shall mount up on wings of eagles and run and not be weary and walk and not faint. i think on these difficult journeys that we have in politics, we need a little bit of that spirit that allows us to walk and not faint and to remain strong over the long haul. that's a scripture that's provided a lot of inspiration to the president and to me. >> pastor dubois, you inspired me. i can quite see why the president enjoyed your services and will continue to. it's been a pleasure talking to you. >> thank you, piers. happy good friday to you, my friend. >> and you. when we come back, the brothers emanuel. i speak with a member of the feared threesome about power, politics and hollywood. e. discover nectresse™. the 100%-natural no-calorie sweetener made from the goodness of fruit. nectresse™. sweetness naturally.

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your mother produced three some would say brilliant men. i would certainly go along with that. you? i think you rose to the higher echelons of american politics.

one of your brothers is a huge hollywood talent superstar and your third brother, probably the most talented of them all, is a brilliant physician. >> rahm emanuel, former white house chief of staff, current mayor of chicago, giving his brother ezequiel a hard time. clearly wasn't all sweetness and light growing up in the competitive household. ezequiel wrote "brothers emanuel, memoir of an american household." he joins me now. zeke, that was your brother rahm making it pretty clear he didn't think you were the most talented member of the family, as the older, the eldest sibling, what was your reaction to that treachery? >> you've heard of sibling rivalry. we're all talented in our own individual ways. >> you are an extraordinary family. it's a remarkable book simply for telling the story of how the three of you basically grow up in this family. your parents came to america as immigrants from israel and they

produced these three extraordinary brothers who climbed to the very top of each of their professions. when you look back over your early childhood together, what was it do you think about the environment and atmosphere of the emanuel household that drove you guys to be so successful? >> first, let me make clear that when we had graduated from high school, there's no one who would have said oh, those emanuel boys, they're destined to succeed, they have it written all over them. if anything, we i think turned out to be late bloomers and a little unexpected to many people who were growing up with us. so that tells you that whatever was in the secret sauce was well hidden from many people for many years. i think first thing, my mom was very committed to social justice issues. she was a big advocate in the civil rights movement, in the anti-war movement, and she took us around to demonstrations and always made us aware that there were people who we had to help in the world who were underprivileged. our dad had this boundless energy which i think we

inherited mostly through genetics. and then they wouldn't let us give up. i think that's probably one of the most important things is that if we succeeded, we celebrated for all of 27 seconds and if we failed, they told us, you know, brush yourself off and try it again. because you know, you're just going to have to keep plowing ahead. that was certainly true, i would say, especially for ari, who had bad dyslexia, frustrated in school and my mom would not let him ever give up on trying to be a good student. >> i also think in ari's case, there's a fascinating clip in the book, one of my favorite paragraphs of all of them, actually, which is about when you were all young boys together, sometimes you wrote our pretend fights became real. when ari was still sleeping in a crib, rahm and i would climb on to the top level of our bunk bed and jump into it with such force that it rattled the wood that held it together and bounced ari off the mattress and into the air. basically, ari's behavior ever since is down to you two, isn't

it, tormenting him in that bunk bed? >> yeah, but what you didn't read is that he really enjoyed that. i mean, he was a stark enough kid to endure that with no problem. >> when i interviewed rahm, he was the first emanuel brother i had interviewed and i got a real sense of a steely streak inside him which i think just judging from what the book says, you guys operate very much as a pack. one of you gets attacked, the emanuel brothers will defend each other to the hilt. despite all the rivalry, you are actually very loyal to each other, aren't you? >> oh, yes. that's absolutely true. as i think i say somewhere in the book, my brothers are my harshest critic maybe only after my daughters. but then if someone outside does something that's untoward or nasty, i can rely on them both to defend me and to give me very good advice, and they're always there. i know that if i had to be in a foxhole ever, it's my two brothers who i want right by my side. >> we had a clip of ari from

your now infamous interview with rock center for nbc. let's listen to what he had to say about you. >> somebody crosses us or somebody crosses a friend, they know we're going to be in the trench, if it's appropriate, and i promise you that we're going to be on their side and it's going to be a battle. and i think -- so there's how we treat people but it's also if somebody screws with one of us or a friend or a company that we will be there to defend it and that's also how we grew up. >> little did brian williams know as he was posing that very question was that he himself was going to be accused of crossing one of the emanuels. ari apparently wrote this very angry legal letter to nbc, not happy, remonstrated personally with brian williams. what was all that about? >> well, it's not about the book, but it's about the fact that whatever, i think the interview did not focus on the book and the agreement was to focus on the book and our growing up. i will say that when we were

kids, and someone was being picked on unfairly, whether because some kids in the school were -- didn't fit in or that we were on the beach and people were calling us -- or whatever, we stood up to bullies. we are not going to shrink back from standing up to bullies. that has followed us all through our adult life and that's very important. on the other hand, you know, if you work for ari or rahm or me, i think there's fierce loyalty from those people. they know we're warm, they know we care about them, they know they're on a mission to do good things in the world, and that's i think really, really important. and we're not -- we're not there to have people made fun of. we have very precise injustice sensors and i think when that happens, we're willing to defend the right and good people. >> do you think you're washed up in the right careers? you're a brilliant oncologist but do you think if fate had

thrown a different hand, you could have been a great talent agent or a great chief of staff at the white house and vice versa for your brothers? >> i certainly could not be a great talent agent. i don't understand that business at all. when ari explains deals to me it's like, you know, i'm confused. i do think all of us have actually management streak in us which we probably got from our father, and i think in each of our realms, we can really figure out what is most important and focus in on trying to achieve that, and again, i think we've just gone into our natural areas, me in academia and politics and hollywood. >> coming up, what does ezequiel think of jeremy pivens' portrayal of a hollywood agent based on his brother? pore refining cleanser. alpha-hydroxy and exfoliating beads work to clean and tighten pores so they can look half their size. pores...shrink 'em down to size!

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did they take the ari golden tamale off the menu? >> no, it's still there. >> what? speak or i'll rip your tongue out and serve it to my son's lizard. >> that's ari emanuel played by jeremy pivens on "entourage." when you see "entourage" as i'm sure you have -- >> no i haven't. i don't watch tv. >> let me enlighten you. jeremy pivens plays a character not too dissimilar to your brother. he shouts and screams a lot, pretty funny but pretty brutal. does it sound like the kind of brother you've come to know and love, the one you used to torment in his bunk bed? >> well, i think, look, ari's a lovely person. he's been lovely to me, he's been supportive to me. i've seen him with his kids. he's a fantastic father. again, makes sure his kids are always striving and trying to achieve more and more. and i also know that, you know,

you don't cross him and you don't make fun of him and you know, you better be on the right side. someone like mel gibson decides to go off on a rant and bully and make a lot of antisemetic comments, and ari is going to tell him where to go. and i think that's exactly the kind of person you have. on the other hand, if someone's doing the right thing and needs to be defended, ari will defend them. >> final question. if i was able to have the power to transplant you into a talent agent and white house chief of staff, i want you to suspend reality for a moment. play along with me here. >> okay. >> who is the single most impressive celebrity or famous public figure you ever met in your life who you would sign up if you were running a talent agency? >> i met a lot of famous and i think very impressive people. you know, when i left working at the white house in january 2011, one of the things i said is that

i worked in a group of amazing, amazingly talented people, and really insightful people committed to the public good. everybody from the president on down to my particular boss, who was peter orszag to larry summers to tim geithner. i had a great privilege there but i also in academia met very brilliant people, including nobel prize winners so i'm not sure i can identify a single person. >> come on, now. >> i'm sorry. i'm not going to help you. >> you emanuels never sit on the fence like this. give me a name. give me a crumb. >> well, i haven't met him and he's now dead, but i think probably the person who still moves me when i read his speeches is martin luther king. >> martin luther king. >> every martin luther king holiday, i try to read one of his speeches or something, and i think, you know, an unelected person who has moved this country and has amazing oratorical skills, so i would

say that's a person who i certainly would have liked to -- i heard speak in person as the book makes clear, and i would certainly like to have met more personally. >> if you were white house chief of staff, what is the single most important policy you would, if you had complete power, encourage a president to bring in to improve america? >> well, at the moment, i'm in health care, i worked on the president's affordable care act and i think reducing or controlling health care costs is probably the most important thing we can do for the long term future of the country. the second thing i think that is probably the most important thing which is what the president did announce in his state of the union is we really have to focus on our children and our posterity. we are a country which always says that kids are our most important resource and i think we have to put the money where our mouth is. we don't invest in kids as much as we should. we need to invest in them more, whether it's early childhood education, it's better programs

at school, it's identifying kids who have reading disabilities and other problems, it's providing mental health to kids who have stress and very abusive situations. i think investing in our kids absolutely critical, and i'm glad that the president made early childhood intervention a signature issue. so if you wanted to know, i guess here i'm revealing my cards. i'm the son of a pediatrician and i do believe that the most important resource we have is our kids, and i think the most important thing for america's future is to invest more in our children. >> it was a great thing from my point of view, having read the book, i was convinced that i was correct when i told your brother rahm that you are the single most talented member of the family. it's a terrific book. >> i'm honored. >> it's out now. it's a great book. thanks for talking to me. we'll be right back. and be good for your face? [ female announcer ] now there's new neutrogena® naturals acne cleanser. acne medicine from the wintergreen leaf

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done well for a boy who, this is my favorite picture of the year, you said yourself you were a weird kid when you were little, i wore big glasses, had hearing problems, had a stutter, and i had ginger hair. we have a picture confirming at least some of that. when you look at that little boy, what are you thinking? >> hang on. you'll sprout soon. >> are you surprised at the speed of your ascent? >> it depends. in different countries, yes. i think if you put in the work and the ascent happens, it's an unsurprising thing but australia, for instance, like we've sold more there than places like germany, where i've been 34 times and i've been to australia three times. so some places i'm very surprised at the ascent and some places, where i've now been in america for a year straight, now it's starting to happen here. a bit like cool, that should be happening after all this sort of stuff. but yeah, australia was surprising for me.

>> america, i would imagine, remains the holy grail for all singer songwriters. >> i'm still surprised i'm like -- like i have the opportunity to release a single for english musicians, america is always an untouchable thing. it's always somewhere where you go and do it, and just really just do it at home and break england. but i think since adele in one direction and all these people have >> touring with taylor swift at 23. you're both single. i'm doing the math here. anything you want to get off your chest? >> to be honest, when that rumor came out, it kind of felt like a bit of journalism. whenever she's pictured with someone, people say that she's dating them.

before me, it was the dude from foster the people. whenever she's pictured with a guy, people say that. and i think people were just like oh, yeah. but i don't know. i think you can be friends with someone without having to sleep with them. i've got morals. >> you've said this. you were told i won't go down the wrong path. i'm not that kind of guy. i'm not a drug taker. most of the people who have been on coke are idiots. they talk too much. interesting perspective. very mature for a 22-year-old to say that in the music industry. how can you be so sure as your fame continues, the money continues, et cetera. you won't fall prey to a very familiar, rocky path? >> as you know, in the industry, you do meet a lot of people who run these kind of drugs. i met a lot of them when i was

quite young, 16, 17, and it just really put me off. i remember one house party i was at and the dude wrapped up lines on a family photograph. >> seriously. when you look at somebody like amy winehouse, i wrote a piece about her about a year before she died saying for god's sake, amy, do something. look in the mirror and realize what is happening to you. you're wasting a magnificental ent. and she did. she just carried on wrecking an amazingal ent. what do you feel when you see that? >> i think it's sad. i think it's sad that there weren't more people telling her that, to be honest. you can say that to her. but is she necessarily going to listen to you? i would listen to the people who were closest to me. so i think it would be more important for that to -- i don't know. >> you thank elton john.

>> elton is a very, very talented, encouraging guy, yeah. >> who's been through a lot himself, in terms of addictions and so on. >> well, this is why i think getting advice from spn like him is the best, the best option. he's done everything good and he's done everything bad, ten times the amount that normal people should do. he sold ten times more records and he's done ten times more bad things. he's come out as someone who likes music. and o and his advice, when it comes to music, is pretty strong. >> you write most of your music or all of it? >> i'd say yeah. i'd say i'll write all of it. >> where do you get the inspiration for this stuff? >> i wrote a lot of stuff. >> who is your hero? >> really, my dad, to be honest. he got me into all of that stuff. he taught my my first dig and took me to green day and then eric clapton. he's got a very, very wide musical taste.

>> and if i took you to a desert island and left you there, you could have one album, not yours, listen to the rest of your life, what would you have? >> the chieftons. it's an album called heartbeat. >> and if you could take one woman to the desert island to listen to the music with, who would that be? >> actually, jennifer lawrence because she has -- >> that is a great call. >> yeah. >> i've interviewed ms. lawrence and that is the best thing you've said in 10 minutes. you would have fun on a desert island with jennifer lawrence. the album is available now. it's called "plus." we'll be right back. >> who are we? >> you know. and you want to buy one like mine because it's so safe, right?

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>> who are we? >> you know. >> it's very hard for children growing up in camden today. it's dangerous. you can hear gunshots almost every other night. >> these kids want more. they don't want to be dodging bullets for the rest of their life. my name is tawanda jones and my

mission is to empower the youth of camden new jersey. what i try to do, in order for them to go through the right path is simple. you instill discipline. drill team is really just a facade to bring these children in because it's something they like to do. then, once i have them, i introduce them to the college live. >> css changed me a whole lot. my dad was shot and killed. when my dad passed, i stopped going to class. i started hanging with the wrong people. >> did you complete your homework? >> she's my second mom. >> in camden, the high school graduation rate is 49%. but in my program, it is a hundred percent graduating. we have never had a dropout. >> my grades now, i have a gpa of a 3.0. i want to be a sportsmanager. >> we need to take back our city. and, more importantly, take back our youth. let them know that we really