stroke. oh, what shake peer could have done with her story. reporter karen looks back. >> she was a grocer's daughter who became the first female prime minister of great britain. margaret thatcher was called the iron lady for her personal and political strength. the leader swept into office in 1979, but the promise of transforming the british economy that was suffering from strikes and inflation. >> we decided there was no sense -- it would have to be sustained for some time, and it was accepted because there was -- >> she caught kut taxes, privateized state industries, and deregulated financial markets. opponents accuse the prime minister of widening the gap between the rich and poor. thatcher also restored britain's clout in world affairs and built a special bond with her american counterpart and political soul mate ronald reagan. the leaders had their disagreements, but shared similar conservative world vooz. >> it was -- warmer personally

than any relationship between any other british prime minister and any other american president. >> thatcher convinced reagan that mikhail gorbachev was a soviet leader that could do business with. >> he was willing to admit that some things were wrong in the soviet union, which was very unusual. >> and reagan backed the prime minister in britain's 1982 faulkland's war with argentina. the conflict cost 255 british lives and cemented thatcher's reputation as a resolute leader. >> the prime minister never expects top send people into battle. i was agonized over it. you couldn't leave our people captive. >> thatcher was the only british prime minister to serve three consecutive terms. in 1990 after a leadership struggle within her own party, thatcher was forced to resign. though no longer on the frontlines, thatcher still had political sway as barroness thatcher, sitting in britain's upper chamber, the house of lords. later in life as her health deteriorated public appearances

became rare, but thatcher's reputation was already set as a dominant figure of the 20th century whose influences constitutional are being felt today. i'm karen, reporting. >> i'm joined on the phone by pi re s morgan, and we'll be joined by john major as well. piers, your initial reaction. this is not as though it was unexpected, but still it's overwhelming to hear this. >> yeah, i think it's a huge day for britain, and it's a huge day for the world. margaret thatcher was one of the great political leaders of the last 40, 50 years without any doubt. john boehner said she was the greatest peace time prime minister in british history, and i think many would say that. many who felt that she was detrimental to britain.

very few had ever been divisive as marlgt thatcher. i stand on the side of people who thought she was a magnificent leader. someone who didn't court popularity. she never read the newspapers famously. didn't care what people said about her. she was the first woman to rule since elizabeth i. she was the first female prime minister. she survived -- this was a remarkable, remarkable woman. somebody who -- being powerful is like being a lady. if you have to tell people you are, you aren't. so, piers, i think if i'm doing the math, you and i are about the same age, and we started our careers about the same time, about 25 or so years ago. you would have been a cub reporter my guess as she was in sort of her highest element. what was it like covering her back then, and how much did you have to get your head around the notion of a very powerful woman like this in politics where a woman had not before been?

>> the thing i liked most about margaret thatcher. was a newspaper editor for rupert murdock in the mid 1990s, which is after she was out of office. that's when i got to know her fernlly. >> she had a huge tumbler of whiskey, massive. she began prodding me in the chest very hard with a very large boney finger putting me right about all things economic, and it was fascinating to watch. i remember thinking this is obviously exactly how she's treated male politicians for the last 15, 20 careers. you know, she was a tough cookie, and she was somebody who famously over the faulklands war in the early 1908s showed true courageous leadership, and she survived an ira bomb. she was really, really tough.

at the same time to revive the british economy, she was very tough on some of the manufacturing industries. there are many coal miners and printers in britain. we saw the industry decimated by margaret thatcher's policies. we'll never forgive them. that's what i mean about her being so divisive. i think on the global stage, you know, you have tributes from people like mikhail gorbachev and seeing the impact that she had on the world stage was absolutely enormous. >> do you talk at length about what those days were like? was there as much -- when you say divisive, there was a lot of talk about the divisiveness in her own cabinet. has your wife weighed in on what their dinner table conversation was like? >> he was a junior education minister under margaret thatcher and remained, and he said the thing about it was she was the first female prime minister, and predominantly her cabinet was

male. she ran it with a-rod of iron, and she different settle -- she was a very, very good debater. s very integt. always on top. you had to be a very, very smart guy to survive under margaret thatcher. she was a real trailblazer. she smashed many a glass ceiling in her time. she won three elections. she was extraordinarily successful. remember, she could talk about anything. she would talk to you about the economy or billion world peace or about the state of the manufacturing industry around the world or privatization of water companies. whatever the subject was, margaret thatcher was incredibly well informed. to me was very impressive.

the problem came when you disagreed with her, and that was certainly my experience. she would chew you off as soon as she felt you were talking monday sense. >> i would have loved to see her talk to you when you were editor of news of the world as well. that would have been fascinating. i want to bring in my cnn colleague richard quest who is outside of 10 downing street, her long-time residents, the home of the prime minister. richard, what is the scene? obviously this news just having broken in the last couple of hours. what's the scene there? are people paying their respects? do we expect a turnout there? what side of margaret thatcher are we likely to see more of highlighted as we go to memorials? >> that's a really fascinating question. downing street is a closed off street. you wouldn't expect any crowds. at the end there's tourists there where are there have been

no people gathering or anything like that. what we are expecting in the next couple of hours is the prime minister david cameron will return to downing street. he has been in spain and in europe. he is cutting short his visit. he will come back to downing street, and then shortly after 6:00, that's 1:00 eastern time, the prime minister is expected to come into the street and he will make another statement. what we know about the funeral arrangements is that they will take place at st. paul's. in fact, the funeral will take place at st. paul's cathedral. that's incidentally where charles and diana were married. it will be a ceremonial funeral. not a state funeral. the difference being you will have military honors, but margaret thatcher will not lie in state. what will people remember? it's as piers was saying. it's that divisive quality that she had in britain. you either loved her or hated her. you admired her, or you revialed

her. you thought she brought the country to its knees, or you thought she raised it high again. that was how people will regard her even many death. >> richard, i want to just read something that came out shortly after the news broke of her death from the stroke today. that was from the former leader gerry adams. not the kind of accolade you've been seeing somewhere else. instead gerry adams said this. "margaret thatcher did great hurt to the irish and british people during her time as british prime minister. working class communities were devastated in britain because of her policies. here in ireland her espousal of old draconian militaryistic policies prolonged the war and caused great suffering wroish "i think that speaks volumes to what you just said. the divisiveness outside and inside her cabinet. i want you to just speak further to that at how much more of that we may hear. >> oh, i think you're going to hear an enormous amount of it in the days ahead. not just from northern ireland. you're going to hear it from northern britain where coal

mines were shut wholesale. you are going to hear it from the former steel industry, the former manufacturing industry. this is a woman -- there were companies if they heard the word british in them, they were nationalize and she privateized them. british airways. british gas. british telecom. british steel. british petroleum. they all went into the private sector. in doing so this revolution in the industry that took place threw millions of out of work. now, you can arguably say, and many, do that it transformed britain into the machine that it became when it became so productive. the other side is all those people in those communities, and it's a very similar argument that you hear in the united states as regards ronald reagan. i think the difference is many death the critics will still be as vocal about margaret thatcher than perhaps they were, say, for example, after president reagan died. >> i just want to read for a

second, if you would indulge me, richard. meryl streep, who so famously portrayed the iron lady in the movie "the iron lady" has put out a statement. i think obviously she's probably been deluged with requests for her reaction. she poured so many months of her life into researching margaret thatcher. not only her history, but her mannerism, her family, all the ri rest. margaret thatcher was a pioneer willingly or unwillingly for the role of women in politics. it is hard to imagine a part of our current history that is not affected by measures she put forward m u.k. at the end of the 20th century. her hard-nosed fiscal measures took a toll on the poor, but her hands-off approach to financial regulation led to great wealth for others. there's an argument that her steadfast almost emotional loyalty to the pound sterling has helped the u.k. weather the storm of the european monetary uncertainty. this is an actress. here she is portraying margaret thatcher. she was so involved. i recall hearing an interview about how much she wanted to

bring to the role on the screen of the life of the iron lady, and i could continue reading, but it would take me several minutes, richard quest. >> the point is i remember hearing meryl streep when thatcher film came out. she made it quite clear that she would have been one of those people that would have been protesting or was one of those people protesting against many of the policies of margaret thatcher. my understanding is she was not a supporter of thatcher during the thatcherism years. here's the other thing about thatcher and women. she may have blazed that trail, but she was by no means a great supporter in terms of raising women up through the ranks. in fact, if you listen to what people like the late francois hollande, the president of france said, she was absolutely wiley at using her feminine charms when she wanted to. she would flirt shapelessly with

male leaders. arguably, that was -- that sort of unspoken flirting that went on with ronald reagan. so margaret thatcher certainly was the iron lady, but she was the iron lady who knew she was a female. >> refused as an iron lady to put that handbag down. i recall specifically that was something she was advised to do, and she said to hell with that. i just wanted to say one thing about what meryl streep said. i think it speaks volumes as well to what you just mentioned. that is that meryl streep also continues to say i was honored to try to imagine her late life journey after power, but i have only a glancing understanding of what her many struggles were, how she managed sail through to the other side. i wish i could pay my respectful condolences to her family and her many friends, and to that title the iron lady, for those that may not know it, it was actually bestowed upon her from the soviet army newspaper "the red star." why was that, richard?

>> because she made it clear, like ronald reagan did, that there was this line in the sand. she said about mikhail gorbachev that he was a man with whom she could do business, but she also made clear there would be no -- she renewed britain's nuclear deterrent. she fought against the protesters at the green of common. i went through school and university, and i started as a reporter in the thatcher years. i interviewed thatcher on a couple of occasions. i even lived in the constituency that she represented, so to hear the news today that thatcher has -- we knew it was coming, but this is the end of an ear wra. particularly for my generation, the 50s -- those in their 50s and 60s and beyond who actually remember those battles on the streets, those riots in the cities, and that revolution that took place in the british economy in the 1980s. >> richard quest, doing an

incredible job. thank you from outside of 10 downing street. i just wanted to mention as well how the presses of the united states, mr. obama, is remembering margaret thatcher today. he sent out this statement. the world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty and america has lost a true friend. as an unapologetic supporter of our trans-atlantic alliance, she knew that with strength and resolve we could win the cold war and extend freedom's promise." we're back right after this. we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed: the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪

she was a picky eater. well now i'm her dietitian and last year, she wasn't eating so well. so i recommended boost complete nutritional drink to help her get the nutrition she was missing. and now she drinks it every day. well, it tastes great! [ male announcer ] boost has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones, and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. and our great taste is guaranteed or your money back. learn more at boost.com [ dietitian ] now, nothing keeps mom from doing what she loves... being my mom. [ dietitian ] now, nothing keeps mom and you wouldn't have it any other way.e. but your erectile dysfunction -

you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.

...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. former prime minister margaret thatcher of great britain dead at the age of 87 having died from a stroke this morning, and, obviously, this is having a ripple effect across the world as many nations remember a woman from two and a half decades ago who spoke volumes not only to conservative leadership, but also women in politics. frank donatelli is in washington. he is a former top aide to president reagan and now recruits office seekers for the gop. thank you for being with us. you were one of the first people we thought of having spent such intimate time with president reagan at a time when there was this de facto marriage between reagan and thatcher. i wanted you to perhaps give us some of the better anecdotes that you remember from that time

together and how he viewed her as a person as their relationship developed. >> right, ashleigh. well, there are so many things that i could say, but i might just point out two general areas for you. the first is that reagan always saw thatcher's election in britain in 1979 as the model for his election in 1980. the same economic forces of decline that were at work in britain in the 1970s also according to reagan existed in america. so when thatcher came to power, reagan saw that as a very, very good idealogical sign that he would be elected in 1980, and he talked about this many times during the campaign. the second thing would be -- >> go ahead. >> i was going to say the second thing would be when they both were in office reagan saw margaret thatcher as his essential partner for his plans to try to end the cold war on terms favorable to america.

time after time, ashleigh, she ran important interference for him to keep the alliance together, to keep the west united, so the cold war ended on terms that we all now know were very, very good for the west. >> that's partially an answer to my next question, which was, you know, clearly it makes sense that he would look to her as a model for election in 1980, but what about his affect on her? >> well, they had a very good personal relationship. both partners learn from each other. they didn't always agree on things, but on the big things they almost always worked together. i can remember one thing i can tell you very, very late in the reagan administration. there was a g7 or whatever it was, g8 meeting in washington.

i just happened to be going with the president on a political trip. i said, well, sir how did the meetings go last night, and i'll spare you my impression of reagan, but he looked and he said, well, he said it was pretty contentious, but thank goodness for margaret. she kept us all on the same page. i think he very much saw her in that way. >> oh, to be a fly on the wall in any of those meetings. particularly her own cabinet meetings, which we want to dig into later. thank you for being with us. we appreciate your personal anecdotes. >> want to move on briefly because cnn is continuing its coverage. our own congress is also back in session with something very important. gun legislation. it's staring them in the face, and the president is in connecticut in a bid to make sure that what he promised in newtown is delivered, but he is not without his critics. fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection

and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto-insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announcer ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. ask your doctor

if including advair could help improve your lung function. [ male announcer ] advair diskus fluticasone propionate and salmeterol inhalation powder. get your first prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com.

president obama is not going here today to capitol hill. instead he is going here to connecticut. the site of the massacre so heinous that four states have already tightened their own gun laws in less than four months.

connecticut among them. the measure signed into law, in hartford, connecticut just last thursday is far more restrictive than anything likely to pass through congress. a paired down senate bill excludz an expansion of gun buyer background checks and crackdown on so-called stri booers, people who buy guns for people that are barred from buying guns, and also a boost in funding for school security. want to bring in cnn's dan lothian, who is already at the university of hartford, awaiting the president, and jeffrey tuben, who is here with me in new york. if i could start with you, the gun rights advocates are certainly they're not shy in suggesting that the president and his administration are using tragedy and their exploiting it for political gain, but the white house is not backing down from this, and it's certainly not choctawing to that as well. >> that's right. they are not backing down for this. in fact, the white house official telling me that today when the president makes his remarks there which, by the way, they're expected to last about 20 minutes or so.

he will talk about the obligation that lawmakers have to have -- take some action, make some movement on these gun proposals. he will also talk about the fact that newtown families have played an important role here in connecticut in getting those stricter laws that you were just talking about passed here signed into law just last week. those universal background checks also, a limit on the magazine clips as well. so, no, you know, what the white house often says when they're criticized on this issue is that right after the newtown shootings, there was a big outcry from both sides of the aisle, people saying that action needed to be taken, a lot of promises were made, and now the white house says everyone needs to deliver on those promises. they don't believe that they're using these families. they're just showcasing these families to try to prevent something like this from happening again. >> certainly the families have not been shy on speaking out as well. they have been at capitol hill. they were on "60 minutes" last night, and many of them in lock step with what the administration is saying. jeffrey, i want to jump over to you.

a lot of people who are critical of these universal background checks, and let's just state for the record that a lot of people across the country favor them to the tune of about 90% of those asked, depending on the question. their fear, those who oppose, is that this could either lead to a registry, a federal registry of gun owners, or it mibt a slope towards that. what's the legal alty of a federal registry of gun owners? >> i don't think there is any question, but that this is a legal thing for the government to do. it's been interpreted to mean that individuals have a right to a handgun in their home for self-protection. there is no supreme court case that says there can't be background checks. background checks have not been invalidated anywhere in the country since the supreme court started interpreting the second amendment this way. i don't think this is a legal issue. it is very much a political

issue. >> and there is always an interpretation, like you said. this latest interpretation supreme court gave us was about having a handgun in your home, but we've had lots of interpretation that is you can't have an rpg. what would a background check make the difference? there is absolutely no mention in the second amendment about keeping list. >> well, certainly the second amendment is a bit of a moving target. since the supreme court has gotten more conservative in the last ten years or so, it is certainly true that the definition of the second amendment has been expanded by the justices in 2008 and 2009, but there is no case anywhere in the country that suggests that a registry is unconstitutional. this is really a 'tis of american democracy. there are not many issues with the 09% of the people who agree, but here you have.

>> gentlemen, i have to leave it, this but we'll continue covering this story today as the president continues his work in connecticut today. hartford, connecticut. dan lothian and jeff tuben, thank you both. we are also entering month four, count them, of the jodi arias trial. lord. yes, it's a defense of death penalty, but wow is it ever long. they're still on the attack here slamming the victim in this case, so hear what travis alexander, the victim in this case actually said in text messages to the person who is accused of killing him, murdering him. murdering him. it doesn't sound good.

sfau businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs, cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups. the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com

of course, i had no idea what it was. i felt like my feet were going to sleep. it progressed from there to burning to like a thousand bees that were just stinging my feet. [ female announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eye sight including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or skin sores from diabetes. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who've had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. having less pain... it's a wonderful feeling. [ female announcer ] ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain.

just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked him up. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's. wiggle your toes. and it got his okay on treatment from miles away. it even pulled strings with the stoplights. my ambulance talks with smoke alarms and pilots and stadiums. but, of course, it's a good listener too. [ female announcer ] today cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everything works like never before. [ male announcer ] start with nothing, build a ground-breaking car. good. now build a time machine. go here, find someone who can build a futuristic dash board display. bring future guy back. watch him build a tft display like nothing you've ever seen. get him to explain exactly what that is. the thin film transistor display... [ male announcer ] mmm, maybe not. just show it. customize the dash, give it park assist. the fuel efficiency flower thing. send future guy home, his work here is done. destroy time machine. win some awards, send in brady. that's how you do it. easy.

. >> the against in jodi arias's murder trial is its last witness. this is their chance to solidify what the strategy is. vilifying the victim. make travis alexander look so bad that jurors may believe it was in self-defense that he was killed. how are they trying to do that? in part, by reading out texts and instant messages that he sent to her. a domestic violence expert deskrikz some of those messages in court. have a listen. >> he teltz her her words are useless. he hates her. she's caused him more pain than the death of his father. she's a rotten lunatic. he has never dealt with a more solid form of evil. she's nothing but a liar.

she lives a life identical to satan. >> don't forget, these are messages from travis alexander, real evidence to jodi arias, and her claim is that she was an abused girlfriend. the trial picks back up at 12:30 eastern time this afternoon. "in session" correspondent jean casarez is with me now. both of them outside the phoenix courthouse. ted rolands, listen. we had to cherry pick through a lot of those messages just to be able to read on television what some of those messages said. there were some really awful things read in court. >> absolutely. very nasty things. aggressive things too saying that hitler has more of a conscience than you. a lot of sexually demeaning things that were aggressive, and the theme here from the defense is to set up a scenario for jurors so they could feel comfortable with the idea that jodi arias was indeed fearing for her her life, and this

witness is putting it out there as a possibility. juan martinez, though, has come back at her very hard. maybe too hard in some people's minds during cross. i think he may tone it down a little whether we resume court here today. his job is to try to not only go after this expert by saying that she is unqualified, but also reminding the jury that travis alexander is the real victim in this case. >> and jean casarez, is not as though this jury hasn't heard it all by now. they have been deluged with some of the most personal private and quite frankly vial evidence that any courtroom can offer. especially in a murder case. when these things were read out, did it have or did it seem to have the desired affect of the defense, and that is to show there are some true real evidence that doesn't come from the mouth of jodi arias to show that travis was rough on her. >> i can't tell you that it determines the ultimate issue, but i think we can look at the surface or we can look a layer deeper. if we look a layer deeper, all of the things that we just heard

alice read that travis said about jodi, a day later he is texting her glowing wonderful things that are very loving. i think it shows a very seriously just deranged relationship. a sick relationship. i think also the issue of stalker comes into these text messages because we heard the jury heard through hearsay in this trial that the ex-girlfriend of travis was a stalker, but then you have these text messages during that particular time period, and you hear travis saying glowing things to jodi about jodi. i think there's many reasons the defense wanted to bring all of these text messages forward. >> all right. you can watch all of the action inside the courtroom today on hln. also cnn.com. now, the lead story of the day without question has been the passing of former prime minister margaret thatcher of great britain. she was succeeded after three

consecutive electrics to prime minister or at least to the leader of her party, by one john major, who will succeed this newscast after the break. is he going to join us live to talk about his time with the iron lady. without bidding. and where's your furry friend? oh, i don't have a cat. priceline savings without bidding. it's easy to follow the progress you're making toward all your financial goals. a quick glance, and you can see if you're on track. when the conversation turns to knowing where you stand, turn to us. wells fargo advisors. none of us think bad things are gonna happen to us. i'm here at my house on thanksgiving day, and i have a massive heart attack right in my driveway. an artery in your heart, it's called the widow maker. and mine was 95% blocked. they took me to the hospital, and the doctor put me on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone, so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i'm a blue-collar worker. to me, bayer aspirin is another tool.

go talk to your doctor. you're not indestructible anymore. ♪

back now to the story of the hour. the story of many hours, in fact. the passing of britain's iron lady, the former prime minister of great britain margaret thatcher. barreness thatcher. she died today at the age of 87. she had a stroke after several years of frail health. i'm very pleased to be joined by mrs. thatcher's successor at 10 downing street, sir john major, leader of the conservative party from 1990 to 1997. sir john, thank you so much for being with me today. i really appreciate this time to talk with you. so many questions and so little time, but let's just start with her legacy, and what you believe it to be having played such a large role in it as well.

>> well, her legacy, i think, is many sided, but i think the core of it, of the supply side changes they she made to the economy in the 1980s with her then chancellor jeffrey howe, and the way in which she curbed the all mighty power of the trade unions. both of those changed british live life forever, but overshadowing that in one respect is the fact that she was the first woman prime minister that traditionalist country like the united kingdom was a very remarkable thing. >> perhaps you can shed some light in your time as a cabinet minister under prime minister thamper, what it was like behind closed doors. there were so many rumors and reports of the skisms and the friction that she had with her ministers and those in her inner circle, you being one of them. >> well, there were. there were arguments.

i mean, margaret was competent. margaret enjoyed an argument. she liked someone who would stand up to her and argue a different case, and out of those arguments came policy. yes, there were arguments, but they weren't bitter. they weren't personal. they were generally arguments about policy, and that was the way in which the policy was actually created. it was a great deal to be done. everybody knew what the objectives were. the question was which of the alternatives ways to reach those objectives, and there was some very powerful personalities in cabinet in those days, and they argued very fiercely for their own particular way, and so did margaret. >> she was such a formidable personality. for those of us who were in our young years of reporting and living through her tenure, hearing her speak was her forcefulness, and yet her lady-like manner itch. there's so much more to her behind the scenes, and, yet, weave been deprived of seeing her at all for the better part of a decade. i'm just wondering if you have had a chance in her later years

where she was ill to see her or speak with her in her private time. >> yes, of course. we had coffee, and we had lunch together from time to time. we were able to talk, but in recent years, of course, she's been far from well. i think the point about margaret that people don't understand is there's more than one margaret thatcher. there is the very forceful politician that people know. there's also the pragmatic politician who before finally making up her mind was very pragmatic as to a whole series of alternatives, and the prime minister who would argue very fiercely with her ministerial colleagues and was very kind and solicitless to people who weren't in in a position to answer back. i never saw her in all the years i knew her behave unprofessionally or unkindly to people who weren't in a position to answer her back and squabble with her. >> but you never -- >> if she saw you as an equal -- >> sorry. >> no, no, no.

she was perfectly prepared. she was perfectly prepared and had fierce arguments with her cabinet colleagues. >> sir john, did you ever feel for even a fleeting moment yourself and your fellow cabinet ministers that she was losing touch at any time with what the caucus wanted or thought was best for the country? almost railroading policy or did you feel like you were always in a fair debate and in a role of guider? >> i think right until very near towards the end it was a fair debate. i think margaret lost something that had always been a great characteristic of hers. for the first eight years of her premiership she was impeccable. she seemed to have a divining rod to people's instincts. in the last couple of years i think that fell away just a little, particularly over the imposition of a new tax called the pole tax where i think

margaret thought it was a very good idea. in theory it was. but in practice it was pretty disastrous. there was a big split between margaret and the political party and the country over the question of the pole tax. >> but was she on an island, or was there a particular -- or was this her perhaps -- i mean, in your most indicated guess, was this perhaps the early onset of illness setting in that caused that to happen? >> oh, no, no, no. absolutely not. no, no. she was perfectly fit. perfectly healthy. she had formed a judgment on the policy, and i think really, it didn't often happen, but i think she made a mistake in judgment, and most people disagreed with her, and if you have won three elections, you rather expect to get your own way, and so margaret wasn't backing away from that policy, and that caused -- >> i like that. >> -- a very great fiction. >> i think you're right. if you win three consecutive elections and you are the first one to do so and certainly the only one to do so in that century, you would start to feel

pretty strong. >> i think you have a right to be listened to, and she did have a right to be listened to. upon examining the policy, people didn't really like it. because the conservative cabinet was full of big personalities, they made it clear that they didn't like it and friction arose. >> like i said, there are so many questions and so little time, and i do want to get the personal -- the personal side of her from you as well. the anecdote that she flirted with world leaders, i just wanted you to weigh in and maybe break that down for me because there is a way that that can be seen as flirting, and it can be very effective strategy. how did you see her behavior, and how she navigated foreign policy with the strongest people, the toughest tough as nails leaders around the world? >> well, in some ways her femininity help her. she didn't scruple to use it if it was effective. she would argue fiercely. she didn't ask for any favors because she was a woman rather than a man, but she would certainly use her attractiveness

and her charm with male counterparts in order to get her way. she certainly did that. i saw her do it 100 times. >> did it work? sir john, i don't know if you could hear me, but i wanted to know in your estimation, did it work? >> oh, i'm sorry. i beg your pardon. the line went dead. it often did work, yes. most certainly it worked. she formed a very good relationship with a number of very powerful leaders around the country. >> so she's quoted -- she's quoted as having said and piers morgan alluded to this earlier in the broadcast before you joined us, sir, that she could size up a man within 15 seconds. i don't know if you had any insight into that extraordinary talent of hers or whether she sized you up in 15 seconds, and did she ever tell you her thoughts about you? >> no, she didn't, but she was -- all the time i was many her cabinet, she was very supporti supportive. i think she did size people up very quickly, but sometimes she

changed her mind. sometimes she changed her mind. the belief that is she never changed her mind is part of modern legend. it wasn't part of contemporary fact. >> any particular -- >> she was very pragmatic sometimes. >> when you say sometimes she changed her mind and you say it twice, anything in particular that is worthy of mentioning on this broadcast where she did change her mind, and it was a significant fact? >> it was over a whole range of policies. she didn't come to cabinet with a mind fully settled as to what the policy should be. it would be argued. a preliminary decision would be made. she would go away and think about it. she would come back and she would say i don't think that's right. i think there's a better way to do it. she would change her mind in debate. there was quite a long process often in making policy and during that process margaret's mind might shift several times until she was certain she had got the right answer. >> sir john major, it is a pleasure to have a chance to speak with you. i'm sorry it's on this very sad

occasion, but it's wonderful that you are able to tell us some of these anecdotes and reflect on a remarkable life. thank you very much mr. prime minister. >> thank you very much. >> i also want to just read for you what i've just been handed. a statement from former president jimmy carter. i'll read as i get it. hz wife roslyn -- roslyn and i are certainly saddened to hear of the death of margaret thatcher. she was a strong ally of peace and human rights during my presidency. as prime minister her government was in the forefront of those who stood with the united states on key concerns, including the need for the sole treaty, a stronger nato alliance, majority rule in zimbabwe, and efforts to bring the iran hostages home peacefully. we extend our condolences to our family and the people of great britain on their loss. the accolades coming in cross-party on the death of margaret thatcher. we are back right after this. mom always got good nutrition to taste great.

she was a picky eater. well now i'm her dietitian and last year, she wasn't eating so well. so i recommended boost complete nutritional drink to help her get the nutrition she was missing. and now she drinks it every day. well, it tastes great! [ male announcer ] boost has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones, and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. and our great taste is guaranteed or your money back. learn more at boost.com [ dietitian ] now, nothing keeps mom from doing what she loves... being my mom. [ dietitian ] now, nothing keeps mom hwelcome back.. nice to see you again! hey! i almost didn't recognize you without the suit. well, this is my weekend suit. weekend getaways just got better. well, enjoy your round! alright, thanks! save a ton on our best available rate when you book early

and feel the hamptonality.

two little boys are missing today. and police in tampa, florida, say their mom and dad are with them in a sailboat. get a good look at these two little boys. one is 2-year-old chase hacken and his 4-year-old brother coal hacken as well. both last seen wearing their pajamas. their dad and mom both lost custody of these kids. they were arrested on drug charges at a hotel in louisiana last year. at the time they were talking about armageddon and ultimately completing a journey -- rather

completing their ultimate journey. the children were right there at the time all of that was going down. so, yes, they lost custody at the time. but fast forward to wednesday. police say joshua hacken broke into his mother-in-law's home and tied her up. that's where the boys have been staying. he ran off with those children. and that's when the grandmother was able to make this call to 911. >> 911, what is your emergency? >> i can't think. my son-in-law just kidnapped my two grandchildren. they've been in my state custody. >> i want to get right to sara ganim following the story for us in miami. first off, is there anything that you can tell us that's the latest in this search? are they closing in? there's a sailboat involved. where does it stand? >> really, ashleigh, when i talked to a sheriff's deputy this morning he said the latest of the last tip that was really relevant that got them somewhere was on thursday night. and that's when they found the family's suv at the dock that led them to believe that they actually had left land and were

out at sea with these two children. now, what they're doing today is asking people who are out boating offshore on the gulf of mexico to help them look for this sailboat. i'm going to read you a description for our viewers. it's a 25-foot sailboat. it's blue with a white stripe near the water line. and two white paw prints on each side of the name of the boat. the father recently purchased this boat according to authorities, but he isn't an experienced sailor. so they believe he has all of the necessary tools to be out on the water for an extended period of time, but because there's so much coastline, the amber alert has been expanded to other coastal states. and authorities are saying, look, we really need your help to look in waterways and anywhere you might be along shore the gulf of mexico. >> sara, just reading the background on this, it's remarkable what's just happened in the past few years and

months. apparently joshua had shown up at the foster home where these kids were living and tried to take them at gunpoint but failed. and then ultimately both of these parents just found out tuesday that they've been stripped of their parental rights. do the police actually think they're trying to cross the gulf of mexico and leave the country? >> the police aren't saying much about that. but this morning when i talked to that deputy, he said he reached out really to the family. they wanted to reach out through the media. they said at this point they don't have any reason to believe that the kids are hurt. and they really wanted the parents to know that they can reach out back to the police and return the kids safely. and this is a custody issue. clearly this is about custody. and if they were to open the lines of communication, they could start to talk to police and resolve this in a good way. ashleigh. >> well, yeah. except for when you hear that before they were talking about completing the ultimate journey with drugs and guns.

it's just frightening. sara, thank you. i know you'll continue watching this story for us. please bring us the latest when you find out. also, coming up, a wedding anniversary, a trip that led to crowds and chaos and paparazzi pictures. beyonce and jay-z heading off to cuba. hey, wait, aren't we not allowed to go there? story's coming up. i didn't rea. see, i figured low testosterone would decrease my sex drive... but when i started losing energy and became moody... that's when i had an honest conversation with my doctor. we discussed all the symptoms... then he gave me some blood tests. showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number -- not just me. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% (testosterone gel). the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy, increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair

or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breastfeeding, should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. so...what do men do when a number's too low? turn it up! [ male announcer ] in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. now for some celebrity justice. i start with the ultimate power

coup couple, jay-z and beyonce. a pair of florida lawmakers want some answers after these superstars went on a vacation to cuba to celebrate their fifth wedding anniversary. the trouble is, americans can't legally go to cuba as tourists. if they go for an officially sanctioned reason, they have to fill out some serious paperwork. now, the lawmakers are upset because the cuban government is now using all these great pictures to promote tourism in that country. paul callan and judge joining us. nobody gets prosecuted for this, though in fact there are cases. paul callan what am i breaking if i'm going to montreal and go to cuba and use my american passport? >> it's complicated, really. there's no law that actually prohibits you from traveling to cuba. the law in question prohibits you from spending money in cuba because we have sanctions against cuba in place. so your purchase of a plane ticket and then your purchase of food and lodgings once you get

to cuba would be a violation of u.s. law. but you're absolutely correct. there have been almost no prosecutions under this law through the years. i think i found vague reference to about 16. that's over about a quarter of a century. very, very few prosecutions. >> and not small too. i think i read one case where a guy was facing over $6,000 in fines for his trip. i want to move onto another -- this is a celebrity blogger moment, former important star arrested on saturday night for allegedly assaulting a man that she knows. he's apparently made a citizens arrest. and then held her until the police came. she was booked on a misdemeanor, posted no bail, walked free. but judge hackett, here's the question. when you have a big celebrity in a place like, i don't know, california, does the celebrity make them go tougher because they are so worried about scrutiny if they're the law enforcement end of it, or does