p.m. eastern with more of my carefully consider prospectus information, including tdd# 1-800-345-2550 investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 conversation with anthony bourdain. cnn represents "day of request a prospectus by calling schwab at 800-435-4000. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 terror: remembering the oklahoma city bombing." it begins right now. read it carefully before investing. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 fees and expenses apply. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 investing involves risks, including loss of principal. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. there's been an explosion downtown. >> holy cow. >> reporter: april 19th, 1995. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ >> we've got a critical! >> people running past us had blood all over them. i had never seen so much glass. >> domestic terrorism strikes in the heartland of america. the rescue. >> i was falling tee floors. still in my chair but upside down. >> the arrest. >> he said, "my weapon is loaded." and i said, "well, so is mine." >> the emotion. >> it's as though we entered the gates of hell. >> the stories of those who lived it, in their own words. "day of terror: remembering the

oklahoma city bombing." ♪ april 19th began very good morning. how are you? beautiful. it was a very beautiful spring >> at the time i was appointed, morning. tim mcveigh was being held in a >> the sky was kind of a turquoise blue right there at federal prison in oklahoma, in the sunrise. el reno, oklahoma. there was some yellows and i went over and stuck out my oranges as the sun crested the hand. horizon. i said, "mr. mcveigh, my name is >> oklahoma's news, weather, and stephen jones. traffic -- i'm a lawyer from enid, oklahoma. i've been appointed by the >> i was listening to the radio,, going through different federal court to represent you." stations, listening to shook his hand. different, you know, morning and as i did, he said, "well, i drive times, like i always did. >> i went to work, as i always heard you were coming." i can only tell you about my conversation with tim mcveigh now because he clearly waived did, and parked underneath the murrah building. i had scheduled a meeting with the attorney-client privilege seven of my staff members. and the courts have so held. on that morning i listened to >> i took the kids in the day him virtually all day. care and i parked right in front of the murrah building every morning. he told me the very first it was just a normal, regular morning. meeting, and he said, "i decided >>t s just like any to do this." he told me why he chose the

routine -- >> normal -- >> routine -- >> it started out as a very good murrah building, told me how he day. assembled the bomb, where he got the parts, how he drove it to [ explosion ] oklahoma city and parked on way down at blackwell, oklahoma, came down the next morning. how he lit it when the bomb -- when the truck was paused >> holy cow! briefly in front of the regency about a third of the building towers, that he lit one of the fuses there and then lit another has been blown away. fuse and closed the door and walked away. >> the federal building. >> we've got a critical! he took 100% of the blame. >> smoke and debris and fire on >> holy cow. >> tim mcveigh considered the ground. this is just devastating. himself a patriot. that was his conviction, that >> i've got three ambulances around me. the government had overstepped, it had killed people, violated there are fire crews. it looks like a war zone down the law, the law had failed to here. pere rning from the federal cou avenge the wrongful death of ofhe windows. innocent people in ruby ridge cael with the branch >> i was the first reporter davidians. the ene atkloma city ing. >> i have just seen a man w. this fire is really rolling walking out of the building. >> and that it was necessary to he has blood on his head to strike back in, say, the fashion toes. of john brown at harper's ferry. >> he had to know that there there islass covering -- were children inhat building,

>> at 9:02, i was right here at the stoplight at fourth and harvey when the bombing occu and i just cannot imagine anybody committing that kind of act against another human being. abds aer the >> at times he said he knew bombing occurred i was on the air and started reporting. there was a daycare center there. at other times he appeared to >> i was just at the stoplight when all of a sudden i heard a avoid that.eath of the large boom and the ground literally moved beneath me. children was very uncomfortable for him. >> the roof has collapsed. on one hand he sought to rationalize it. we've got a lot of people here. >> it is an amazing sight. on the other hand, it was beyond it's as if somebody came and rationalization, and even tim mcveigh knew that. sheared off an entire half of but i think the first time he the building. in the parking lot, the cars are said -- he just looked at me a damaged and they are smoking. he said, "children also died at we are seeing injured people everywhere. literally dozens of people that waco." are bleeding. some of them, you can't even he assigned almost all responsibility to himself. make them out. >> i felt and heard just a "i did this," "i did that." tremendous roaring noise in my terry nichols helped me with this or that, but he played down head, and everything went black. the role of terry, played down the role of anyone else. i think he expected to be found guilty. i could hear people screaming, >> we got him! >> he was not surprised by the return of the verdict finding and i heard my own self screaming, and i was screaming u him guilty, nor was he surprised that the jury voted death. "sup me i thought maybe i had been shot

in the back of the head was the first thing i thought. as i recall, we simply exchanged maybe i'd been shot in the back of the head and that i was some brief momentary remark and then the marshals took him out. falling to the floor. and actually, i was falling three floors. and it was hot and dark. >> if anyone was ever deserving i couldn't see anything. of the death penalty, it was tim i was actually still in my mcveigh. >> they got us up about 6:30 chair but upside down. that morning. and i laid there trying to figure out whether i was dead or alive. we got in a van, we drove over to the chambers. >> i remember turning around and we was the last ones to go in. they finally opened up the kind of leaning back in my chair, and i literally was -- curtains and he looked over, all of a sudden just started to see the whole building blow up first of all, to his area where right in front of my eyes. his lawyer was at. then all these girls, in just then he turned his head towards us. literally seconds, were just and he only kept his head there gone. just maybe 30 seconds or less. enough time for me to see in his and my desk was just sitting at an angle, ready to topple over into the hole where all those eyes kind of like dead eyes. girls had fallen. there was no feeling whatsoever in the eyes. in my own heart i felt like the >> there's about three more only way that we, my family or coming. there's a report of about 22 anybody else in the world that

had been affected by it, the over here in this building. only way that we could get any >> ambulance crews are working peace was to watch him die. >> he was pronounced dead at 7:14. as fast and furious as they can, >> i believe that tim mcveigh trying to get to these people was recruited, that he was not and put them on stretchers and the mastermind. get them to the hospital. everywhere you look, the building has been destroyed. it is really a chaotic that's my best judgment, that there were others involved. situation. many people are running around perhaps their role was more trying to find friends, peripheral. perhaps it could have been coworkers. stronger. we will never know. certainly, tim mcveigh is beyond the ability to relate. >> you can't go beyond the yellow tape. >> i don't care. >> published report says >> i'm sorry. oklahoma city bombing >> right there. >> you were on the first floor? conspitor terry nichols admitted last year to his role >> fifth floor. >> fifth floor. what happened? in the bombing. >> you went under a table? >> it was a confession. >> yeah. i went under a table when the he wanted to avoid the death penalty here in oklahoma. ceiling started to fall in. nobody knew ouell >> i don't know how long after after the trial. the rumbling stopped and the he ad intes that he was things stopped falling when i volvedn the buying of the looked around, i could see the materials and that he helped build the bomb, even siphoning sky. i could see across the street diesel fuel out of his own truck where before there were walls on when they ran out of racing all four sides of me and now on it was i did this, i did that, i was involved ithe actual three sides of me there were no walls. making. i was standing, looking out the south side of the building and and he -- they asked --

somebody tapped me on the prosecutors asked him if he knew shoulder, and it was mark of anybody else involved, and he mulman, the fireman, and he said he did not. said, "we're here to take you down." thank god for mark, because he talked me down that ladder every >> this act of terrorism, the step of the way. snuffing out of lives, was an unimaginable slap in the face. >> my mom's in there. and the slap was, this can happen. this did happen. >> get them back! regrettably, possibly this can happen again. >> somewhere around 10:20 to 10:30 is when i heard loudsc comingoutsidof the building. >> we had some kind of explosion downtown. i went to the rear wall and >> when we come back, nearly two looked out the window, and i could see the rescue efforts that had been taking place down decades later, how people are there were now ceased and everyone was running from the coping. building. >> i believe you never heal from something like this. >> we have a live picture right now. we are told there may be another explosion in the area right now. we don't know exactly what is happening. djibouti, africa, 2004. this is a live picture, people running to the north. the battle of bataan, 1942. >> the call s evuate [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. the buil.

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this is kate. we could feel the explosion -- she likes a man with a little hair on his chest. >> stretcher! >> got out from under the desk, but definitely not on his back. this is hannah. and there just wasn't any she likes a guy with a smooth stomach building left around me. >> people talk about the healing to show off his six-pack. process as if you can take a shower after you've exercised [ ding! ] and this is genesis. outside on a hot day. she likes men completely hairless i believe you never heal from and, no, she doesn't think that's weird. something like this. i don't. the proglide styler. >> i did lose something that trim, shave and edge. day. the one tool you need to get the look she wants. it wasn't a family member, but the night is yours. it was that realization that you ) gillette. the best a man can get. always grow up thinking nothing is going to happen to you, nothing bad, and that's gone. >> i don't know if i'm considered exactly lucky because even though i'm a survivor with the other kids, i have to deal with thinking about why we're here and they're not. we were all in the building at the same time. even if we were in different places, we were in the building and they're dead and we're not. so i have to -- i have to suffer with that because it's like a burden.

...and we inspected his brakes for free. >> i think that if god could -free is good. -free is very good. save me from second and [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. d-degree burns and a broken arm, since all those other people died, and out of six survivs god saved me and those other five, he must have something special planned for all six of us. there are just bodies laying if you were just joining us, you are not watching some scene everywhere. of international catastrophe. there's people just laying there screaming trying to get out. you are looking at your own and i've helped rescue several bodies, a bunch of babies that back yard. downtown oklahoma is in flames and smoke right now. we've had to drag out. >> i looked up the street. it's just a real gruesome sight. mind of all the people who died here. i said, "edie, the babies."and and it's sad to me just to think her face just dropped. and she took off running. that that' chen, yoyce at now they have these two chairs, >> every block i ran, i was pleases buhi tht.

i didn't want to keep running and not see anything horrible, whenever i pray about it, i always ask god to tell them i you know, until i got to the said hi. that's the main thing. murrah building, but that's what like, just tell them i said hi happened. and when we walked around to where the daycare overhung the and that i love them. you know, i don't know what street, i mean, it was just happens to children when they die. gone. i don't know if they become therwas nothing left. adults when they go to heaven. i'm not sure about those kinds of things. but i know that they're safe and they're happy and they're watching out for us. >> we just had some kind of ♪ explosion downtown. >> canou give me a location? >> during the time that i was trapped and i was thinking about my life, i thought about the fact that my husband and i didn't have any children. because at that point i'm thinking, okay, this is it, my life is over. >> that's when my heart died. i'm dying. and i never had a child. edye crumbled to her knees and it really bothered me. crying, "my babies, my babies." so after the bombing and i had this second chance at life, we and it's as though we entered really rethought the whole no the gates of hell. children thing. >> come back to me as fast as you can. and i got pregnant and i have a wonderful 5-year-old that's just absolutely changed my life. >> the days of chase and colton's funeral, a rescue worker came up to me. >> when i arrived, the boy had a i don't look forward to the day when i have to explain to him pulse.

it was very weak. what happened to me and what >> he dug through some rubble kind of world we live in, because right now, he thinks and found my son, colton. >> i love you. everybody is good and everybody >> he said he held him for a is wonderful. >> people change and people move on. while until he died. but i can tell you personally, from my standpoint, my >> there was a daycare center in the building. grandkids' grandkids will know that daycare center would have been devastated. as much as i know right now. they won't have all the feelings >> the employees were very happy about having their kids on site there where they could feel more that i've got, but they're going comfortable about where they to know what happened on that day of april the 19th. were. they're going to know the people that lost their lives down there that day is an act of domestic >> i felt that p.j. was alive. terrorism, and they're going to know that evil is real in this world. when i made it to children's hospal, they said oh, he's >> ten years, and i still get been screaming and calling you. emotional. he had cuts and lacerations about his head. he had second and third degree burns over the upper 55% of his body. what i want to say is it's not he had inhaled much of the gas from the bombing. his lungs were severely damaged. -- an awful thing happened. a really, really horrible thing happened here. irreparable. >> i'm so happy to go home. and yet, what struck me and what

> yeah. p.j. was 18 months. >>y p.j. allen. sticks with me is that all of these wonderful things happened, that all of these people stepped i am in the sixth grade. up. >> he's 11 today. they didn't have to. >> i remember a lot of it. >> within that community, it was a source of pride that we did a long time ago i had asked why this so well, we love our neighbors so well. i thing in my neck and we could come together so well as a people. everybody else didn't. and that's how i figured it out. how can good come out of evil? sometimes it does. and in this case i think good very definitely came out of evil. >> this is albuterol. it opens up my lungs. >> i think most people should >> p.j.'s lungs were extremely know that life is just too short burned. they were damaged, charred. to live in hatred, because you he no longer had air pockets. so they had to perform a need to get what you can out of life while you have the chance. >> you never recover from tracheotomy. on january the 6th, 2004 his can thing like t u co you ce, you live, trache came out and he was able to talk. >> the bridge can carry a maximum of about 5,000 cars. but i don't believe you heal. >> i don't like to be treated different than anybody else. i think there's an indelible scar in the mind and on the scar in the mind and on the heart. >> i'll let you finish. >> okay. >> and if anybody else can do it, i can do it too.

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> if you are by chance watching this program knowing that you'e had a young child down at the hospital and have not yet been able to locate them, try cling university spital. >> about0: or so i found there's a bombing in oklahoma d. where i have my wife and my little boy. >> my co-worker come by and ask me, phuong, is that -- christopher your baby in that daycare in the federal building? he said oh, my god, it is. >> and i stoppedthe by 7-eleven on the way to downtown, and i bought some plastic bag. with the intent to pick up my son's body. >> he is only 5 years old.

but christopher nguyen is going through enough pain to last a lifetime. >> when i see the pictures of me in the hospital, in the bed, i see like a little boy covered in blood and i just, even at that tonight, a father's search 5-year-old age, to be for his children. hospitalized for something that his two sons taken, one child 4 years old. his brother not even 1. serious, it's just depressing both were kidnapped by their own that there's someone out there who would do that. mother, spirited away across the world to another culture, another kind of justice. some people say i should feel now, that alone would be bad angry about it, but i ju feel enough.but all of this happened a dozen years ago. a sadness because so many people today michael shannon's two sons died for nothing. are 16 and 12 and nearly it's just uncalled for. unrecognizable to him. try to imagine what tt's like for a father. killing so many people for just his long and sometimes lonely battle to get them back is far one cause or maybe none at all. from over. in fact, it gets more >> we mentioned to you earlier heartbreaking by the day. tonight, his story and his wife's. that's right. the little girl, they had not we'll also talk to the mother been able to connect her with who defied a c her parents. we understand the little girl's name is rebecca. >> the phone rang, and it was claudia, and she said a bomb went off at the federal building, get down here right away. >> her 3 1/2-year-old brother

brandon, blue eyes, reddish-blond hair, he is still missing. >> i couldn't move because, you know, he was gone. my kids were gone. >> this is rebecca five days after the explosion. >> my left side was just all damaged. they had to do surgery on my face. i had 240 stitches in my face. >> 3-year-old brandon denny suffered serious brain injuries. >> first of all, they said he might not live. and second of all, if he does live, he will never walk or talk again. we've proved them wrong. >> good. >> he walks. he talks. he runs. through all his bad times you never saw a more positive person. he was always smiling, always e.

>> still ahead -- buried alive. >> i started screaming out for help. and one of the men said, "i hear you. i hear you." he started yelling, "we have a live one, we have a live one." if you have sensitive skin, try mach3 sensitive. a closer shave in a single stroke, if you have sensitive skin, for less irritation, even on sensitive skin. ♪ gillette mach3 sensitive. gillette. the best a man can get. gillette mach3 sensitive. with so much competition, finding the right job is never easy. but with the nation's largest alumni network,

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the flow of people just never stopped. there was always, as soon as you bandaged one person, the next one was ready. people were in there just digging and digging. and we would find a purse, and then we would find a body. i remember finding a little baby shoe. and i think at that point it was probably when it hit me the hardest. >> you look at that and you wonder how in the world would any kind of rescue worker be able to go in there and find somebody. >> you just wanted to feverishly dig, to try to find a pocket of air or pocket somewhere where there were still live people and babved en. and you just didn't find it.

>> my partner and i, steve and i, ran directly into the building. you try to move around the steel rebar that held the concrete together was hanging out and sticking out and protruding. it's like walking through a gauntlet of pokers, if you will. these things were -- hit you in the head, hit you in the shoulder, stick you in the side. i mean, as you try to work your way through and it's dark, and we're wading through water and crawling up and over, up and over boulders. >> we were close to having to be rescued many times when we first went into the building. the debris was deep. and we used the electric cables, actually, as ropes to crawl over some of the debris. we had to keep our balance. peo the same thing. as we carried them out, we'd have to pull ourselves up and carry them out. we carried these two ladies out. i saw people laying on the sidewalk, i saw blood running down the cutter. >> when i first came to, i

thought i'm dreaming. this has to be a dream. i guess i was down there for a couple of hours. and somebody would come and my rear end was actually sticking -- that was the only thing, like a little hole. >> as i turned and looked right behind me, just feet away, i saw the back side of a person stuck in a wall. all i could see -- i knew it was a lady because she was screaming. i could hear her voice. as i walked over to her i put my hand on her lower back and i'm telling her, "i'm going to get you out of here." there was no way in the world that i knew that i was going to get that lady out. >> they were trying to find some way to get me out. they didn't know how my body was positioned behind the wall that i was in. there was so much rubble that got into my eyes, i couldn't see anything and i just was screaming. some people wanted me to shut up because i wouldn't stop screaming and the ambulance driver who drove me to the

hospital said, "let her scream all she wants to. it's the best sound i've heard all day." >> i heard voices off in the distance, men that were saying, you know, "this is where the daycare children should be. let's split up." stscreaming out for help and one of the men said, "i hear you, i hear you." he started yelling, "we have a live one, we have a live one." they had just begun trying to uncover my hand when another voice came up verary fic and panicked andaidbody pull t now, there's another bomb, n i think the next p was the hdest part, and that's when i was alone and i was waiting for a second bomb. that was the hardest part. you know, the whole thing, you hear other people talk about li, you knfaly and yr an etnity. tnking ab things.

and so i just prayed, and i don't know how much time passed, but i heard voices coming back to me again. and so then they began the tedious work of uncovering me. when they pulled me out, they said, we're going to pull and it's going to hurt. and they did. they counted to three and they pulled. it hurt so bad. and it was the best feeling i'd felt all day. i remember looking around and it looked like a war zone. but i'll never forget what it felt like to breathe in that first breath of fresh air. >> i went to take a shower because i was just filthy. and the water no sooner hit me till i just -- i lost it. i mean, i don't know what it was, but it was -- soon as i got in the shower, i just started crying. and i bet i cried for the next hour. because i finally let my emotions in.

>> i looked into the eyes of rescue workers, and the one impression that came back to me each time was the utter absolute grit of these people. yes, we've been bombed. yes, some of us have been murdered. yes, we're bloody, but we are determined to survive. we're determined to help. >> after that we're through with our search, the building will be turned over to the oklahoma city police department. >> it was obviously kind of a relief yet a letdown when we had to call the operation off, knowing that we still had a couple people in the building. we knew where they were. we couldn't get to them because of the structural dynamics of the building. but wow, it was tough. i mean, it was real tough to try to especially communicate that to the families of those victims, that the chances of us finding their loved ones alive were just almost gone toward the end of that effort. >> the building was creaking, the building was dangerous and

unstable. and that was an urban area, so they needed to take the building down. >> i knew the two people that were -- that the bodies that they still hadn't gotten out at that time and, you know, that bothered me. i knew they had to do it. i knew that they needed to do that. >> i had the honor of standing by philip and ken thompson. they are the sons of virginia thompson, who was left in the building. and that was an experience i'll never forget as long as i live. >> all of us got rather teary-eyed because we had been so emotionally involved with this. but then once the smoke cleared and we could see that the symbol wasn't t -- >> i rememr my reaction waso an .aal, just kick ili you

itr. ow, is agony is behind us. we hated what had happened there, and to get it out of our psyche was a very good thing. >> when we return, the arrest. >> he said, "my weapon is loaded." and i nudged him a little bit with the barrel of my weapon, and i said, "well, so is mine." . boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'eon my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card

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i'm don lemon at cnn world headquarters in atlanta. here are your headlines at this hour. secretary of state john kerry got a promise of cooperation from china today on the north korea issue. kerry says there's no more room for threats or confrontational language with pyongyang. he's on a three-nation diplomatic swing of asian countries. kerry arrives in tokyo tomorrow. now, incredible video showing a plane with a huge crack floating t amazingly, everyone on board survived. the lion air 737 carrying more than 100 people overshot a runway and slammed into the ocean near bali, indonesia. basketball fans won't see

kobe bryant on the court for a long time. the l.a. lakers star will be out for at least six months after tearing his achilles tendon. similar injuries have ended the careers of some other players. but the lakers' trainer says the plan to have kobe, to have him back at the start of the season. those are your headlines this hour. i'm don lemon, keeping you informed. cnn, the most trusted name in news. we flew by charter jet, late at night the day of the bombing. as i looked at that building, with all the night lights on it, my only thought was, who could do this? >> he came in, using a different name, put a deposit down to be able to rent a truck. he had a driver's license showing it was bob kling. he just seemed just like an average, nice, young gentleman.

there was nothing about him th would make you suspicious about anything. he was polite and he wanted a -foot truck for what he was hauling, and he rented it to go to omaha, nebraska. >> the truck bomb, there's going to be a crater right where it was sitting. we knew the bomb came up in the truck because that's where it was parked, right on the crater. and it just disintegrated the truck. so at that point you have to start looking at trying to identify the truck. the real axle of the truck had blown all the way in front of the regency towers. a car was pulling up there about the time of the explosion. it had hit on the front of that and it was laying there in the street. i got to thinking, there's going to be a stamp number in that axle. we ended up getting the full confidential number on the truck. at that point i called the national insurance crime bureau.

they told me the full vin, that it was a ryder truck. >> the vice president from ryder called us and he said that he was sure that that was the truck that was involved in the oklahoma city bombing. just couldn't hardly believe that it was. >> on the morning of april 19th, 1995, i stopped an old yellow mercury marquis for a traffic violation. he wasn't displaying a tag on the rear of his vehicle. when he got out of the car, he looked like a clean-cut young man that had a military-type appearance. he had a short haircut. he also had a light windbreaker or jacket on. and it was zipped up just slightly at the bottom. but as he was removing his billfold from his right rear pocket, the jacket tightened up, and i could see a bulge under his left arm that appeared to me to be a weapon. and i grabbed the bulge on the outside of his jacket and instructed him to get his hands up and turn around.time w d my weapon and stuck it to the back of his head. he said, "my weapon is loaded."

and i nudged him a little bit with the barrel of my weapon, and i said, "well, so is mine." it was just a routine traffic stop with an individual that happened to be carrying a weapon. i would have ticketed him and let him go if he had not had that gun on his person. and he'd have been on down the road. >> they brought the sketch artist in the next morning. my mechanic was sitting in there on break the whole time that he was in there on monday, right close to him. so the mechanic made this sketch for them, and i looked at it. i said that looked just like him. >> and agents in that area went around to all the hotels and everywhere they could showing these sketches and asked if anybody would recognize him. and it just so happens mr. mcveigh had stayed in one of the hotels. he rented the truck under the name bob kling, but he registered in the hotel under his name. >> i had ran mcveigh's name, social security number, date of birth, and also checked the weapon. the morning i had arrested him i had ran all this information. >> if a person's name is checked

through ncic, there's a signature that's left in the system, and you can determine if somebody's name is actually ran at a certain time. and i called up, telephone rings, nova county sheriff's office. and i said, well, sheriff, here's the deal. highway patrol hooked up an old boy wednesday morning after the bombing, and i think they brought him into your facility. can you tell me if that's true? he said sure, mark, hold on. >> mcveigh was probably 15 to 20 minutes away from being released from the novo county jail. >> about five minutes later he said, yeah, yeah, he arrested him. he brought him here into my jail. he said, as a matter of fact, we still got him. i said, you're kidding me. what's his name? he said timothjames mcveigh. and i screamed, "we got him!" and the whole place just eninnd seeing it on tv that heanou see that indivialhatlemn,

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