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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  May 2, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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next, great job of being responsibility as parents. not guns. secondly, without the gun being in the house, the parents can't be irresponsible with it, can they? this from david, why are you so awesome? to which my answer is, rack tis, david. a lot of practice. keep tweeting me. that's all for us tonight. "anderson cooper" starts right now. >> hey, welcome, this is a special live edition of "360." we've also got a special guest joining us, the fifth chair, he'll be joining us in just a few minutes. tonight, a lot to cover. what we just learned about how much worse the boston bombings could have been. what the surviving suspects said about when they were originally planning to attack and how that attack could have killed a lot more people.
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later, a conversation we started last night. we're going to continue tonight. the hunger strike at guantanamo bay prison. also, later, p.r. disasters abound the dash board came. we'll show it to you and contemplate why saying you're about to find out who i am doesn't play very well with law enforcement. some of the other things she said as she acknowledges are pretty out there. anyway, you'll see all of that. before we get to any of it, i want to quickly go to newbury park, california where firefighters have a monster fire on their hands. right here, this is one of the leading edges on this fire. it's so smoky, it's almost impossible to get a good look at where the fire is burning.
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it's burning up there all along that ridge threatening all of these houses in this neighborhood. but the smoke is just absolutely whoen. the heat is tremendous. >> it's crazy how thick that fire was. paul, it's amazing how fast this fire is spreading, as we're going to look at the images we've seen throughout the last couple of hours, give us a scope of this fire. >> the scope is enormous. it's on miles and miles and miles. but for the first time since this fire started, we're hearing the word containment. as i pull out here, you can see that smoke in the distance. there's a lot of white in there, which means they're getting water and steam on it. now, ventura fire department tells me they have 10% containment.
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>> we understand these fires may spempbd the night. you'll recall, those water drops were absolutely perfect. they got in there with chain saws. they built a line and did their job. so far, we understand there might have been some houses slightly scorched. but we have not had any houses destroyed in this mazive fire. they gave, by the way, 6500 acres. >> when firefighters are out, they're not getting reports back from the individual battalion chiefs. the pure focus is on fighting the blaze. >> the fight is joined by about
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600 firefighters. now, to boston, the surviving bomber says he and his brothers were planning a fourth attack susan, what have you learned? >> this is coming to us from a law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. it gives new meaning to the term homemade bomb. the bombs were put together with volatile shrapnel, including bbs where he lived with his wife and child. now, tamerlan's younger brother, dzhokhar, told the fbi this during his initial investigation. originally, they were planning to make the attack on fourth of july and make it a suicide attack.
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instead, they chose the boston marathon. and according to dzhokhar, and this is really amalzing, that decision was made within a few days of the marathon. it sounds like a last-minute decision if you believe dzhokhar. you have authorities telling you this. this is not him recently telling him. this is recently from the first day or two after he was arrested and still in the hospital. is that correct? >> that's exactly right. >> what do you make of this? >> one day i hope we hear the story of these two boys. i hope we hear all of dzhokhar's story. clearly, this domestic terrorism is the biggest threat to the united states right now. so we've really got to get to the bottom of this. it's incredible to think that they were able to turn it on, turn it off.
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>> he may have said that, but here's a guy who, the day after the suicide, is back at his dorm smoking pot. didn't look like someone who was that emotionally engaged in the process. >> that's what judy clark does. the defense attorney makes a deal that gives the government spg of value, if the government is interested. now, the government may say given the magnitude of this crime, given that he's the only defendant, given that we don't need that much, we have his cell phone records, we have his computer. we just want to try him. >> i think susan's report suggest that the authorities know a lot more than we do. >> the bomb was built in the
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apartment where the wife and child were living. maybe we don't have a full story from her yet. this is just me and my brother. >> how do you build a bomb in the apartment and not have the wife know about it? >> yeah, this is not a seven-room apartment. >> i want to bring in bob baer who has had a lot of experience in this. bob, you, all along, have been very skeptical that these two built this device by themselves. any add viesz advice on the timetable of the attack? >> anderson, that could be correct. there's two things i'd like to say. one is al-qaida has a standard
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procedure for its operative. when they're caught, they're to say they did it on their own. they took the design off the internet. that there was no direction. and that's been in place for the last four or five years. we don't know that that hasn't happened in this situation. i see nothing out there to explain how these two young men were able to change the design. there were a couple complicated additions added on the surface and the rest of it. i still think that tamerlan got some sort of instruction in chechnya or dagestan, but that's just a hypothesis.
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there were probably unwitting details to this. >>. >> don't you think by looking at their cell phones, by looking at their computer, we'll know who they're in contact with. they're going to have talked to people on the phone, right? >> oh, absolutely. i think if there was a u.s. network, it will quickly come to life. they weren't sophisticated enough to find it completely. there will be some trace of it. not even the russians will be able to get at it.
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someone sat them down and showed them how to make the harder parts of this bond. >> i mean, it's interesting how this guy, who's been killed by the u.s., how he sort of has infused a lot of different attacks. >> yeah, again, if that's the case, having learned all of this online. he's been dead for a while but even before, had they been germinating this for a long time. these are not bumbling idiots. >> i second that. you do not do two bombs without some instruction. >> if russian authorities were surveilling them, at least they were for a time after they lost
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them when the other boxer was killed. if there was surveillance going on, unless they were incompetent, wouldn't the russians have some idea of what tamerlan was doing all of that time? >> the question is did they have 24 hour surveillance on them. they may have been listening to phones. this is the problem. it takes to conduct surveillance. they're really running down all of the contacts. it's a lot harder than you think. and the russian system is not entirely efficient. he did slip away. he didn't get his passport at the end. they may have missed miz contacts with the groups. >> one of the things when we keep talking about dagestan,
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these people out and out disowned them. again, bob, i know you're former cia. i still want to know how come a tamerlan tsarnaev who the russians have tipped off, who's on a cia watch list, who has very, very incriminating youtube pages and facebook russian pages, why was u.s. law enforcement not more after this guy? >> the system doesn't work. >> we have an enormous bill.
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the idea of creating a national intelligence office. >> i'm still so struck by the students and the -- if they would interpret what would be rather encryptic text messages to turn out and take the laptop and the bomb-making material. >> i actually found it interesting and instructive. >> yeah, we can argue everything he said. but, on this, he is a former u.s. attorney. and he said that these kaz aks, they're in deep trouble. they did not tip off law enforcement. up next, the former chief prosecutor at guantanamo bay.
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welcome to our viewers watching around the world and here in the united states on cnn. no single story has generated the kind of heat than what's going on right now. inmates on hunger strike right now. medical officers force feeding some of them. what's happening there raises a lot of questions back with our panel in the fifth chair tonight, someone who was president at the creation of getmo, good to have you here. you said getmo should remain open. what do you think about the force-feeding?
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>> i said i'd love to be able to close it. the problem is how do you accomplish that? and that's what we run into. someone i know is very in charge. one of the best diplomats we have. he worked in the bush administration. he works for president obama now, trying to find places. no one wants them. >> yes, after the underwear bomber, she and others in congress suggested to president obama that they do not allow people to go back to yemen. but now she wants to reconsider that. the president of yemen who is a
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strong fighter wants these people to come back. the momentum is building now. >> you're talking about the remaining population of people. 86. and there's another 80 who would still be acting in guantanamo. >> yes. but you start the process on the 86 is being cleared. the fact of matter if we did try to bring them to trial, chances are they're going to get off on a technicality in an american court and then we just release them? >> people accused of terrorism have been one hundred percent
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successful. >> let's bring in someone who is very involved. actually, can you move out of the way, sorry. he was the chief officer in guantanamo. two years later, he retired. colonel morris davis, good to have you on the program. what kind of impact do you think getmo staying open is having right now? >> i just don't see the upside to it. >> as jeff can tell you, the law that has come out have all been adverse to the u.s. there's just no upside to keeping it open. >> what will you do with the people who are there? >> i think one way is to put the
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men on it with the detainees and fly them home. the hunger strike would be over. you'd end the hunger strike or let them die. leaving people in jail forever is just fundamentally wrong and it's got to stop. we need to act like americans again. we used to be the land of the free and the home of the brave and we've been the strand of the cowardly for the last 11 years. >> colonel, for all of those who are wondering about what do you do with the rest, you're talking about the 56 yemens what about the others? there's no evidences being put against them. they can't go to trial. they're in this legal limbo. and some of them are really sdental prisons.
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>> people in 2009 did a review at that point. 240 people. almost all of them are connected to al-qaida. >> i think what we ought to do, there's a group of the 86 that have been cleared for transfer. these are cleared. these are people that the f.b.i., c.i.a., department of justice, department of the defense said we don't want to keep them. we're spending $800,000 a year per person to keep them at guantanamo. this will qualify for the golden fleece award back in the old days. there's a group of 30 that the administration wants to prosecute. and i think the forum ought to be federal court. jeff said we've been extraordinary successful. it's been fast. severe sentences, rick. guantanamo, we've had seven convictions.
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they've been overturned on appeal. that's a group of 50 indefinite detainees that we hold them because we argue that we're at war. we have the right to detain, but we bring the troops out of afghanistan next year. that legal basis goes away. >> so that's the key issue. this is where the president has to be consistent. if he thinks it's in the american's interest to close gaun ton moe, then close it. the president, then, should take a stand. if they're found not guilty, let them go on the streets. if they're found guilty, fine. chances are most of those 50 will not be found guilty. the only other one is to leave guantanamo open or acknowledge that they're going to be free walking the streets. >> what do you do about this hunger strike right now? >> what is the humane thing to do? do you force feed someone or let them die of starvation?
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>> it's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't. >> that's what i asked you. >> i think the way to do it is to solve the hunger strike. i think if you began sending some people home that have been cleared, it would show that there's some light at the end of the tunnel. >> the point is that the 86 who have been cleared, there are no countries that will take them. >> but that's not true. >> there's no solution. bermuda won't take these people. >> oh, come on. >> how can you say yemen is not a solution. >> the senate intelligence -- >> that's not true, either. i've done the homework on that. our good friend, peter bergen, let's give him a shoutout. he's written copious articles. he's made all sorts and many others have, as well, of residivism in many years.
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it's basically at 6% right now. >> it's reported by the washington post. >> beyond sending them away, is force feeding, is that humane to let people go on hunger strikes? >> i think there's merit that if people see there is a way that they'll eventually be released or dealt with. there is a hunger strike. every prison wants to be humanitarian. there is that solution. >> wait a minute. i want to stay on this for a minute. these people do not even follow the law of war. both are legal and in the constitution. these people don't even wear military uniforms. they engaged in battle against america.
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a violation of the laws of war. >> this country fought adolf hitler. i don't believe bin laden and his group are worse or dangerous than adolf hitler. >> these people are fundamentally, totally by design different. >> you wanted to have this whole thing about enemy combatants. donald rumsfield decided no geneva conventions. elt's violation of international law. and do you know what? force feeding is also a violation of international medical -- >> the u.n. is saying that right
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now. >> in the short term then, what do you think is the solution? >> i think the solution is written in many, many instances. there are ways to get rid of these people. you've just discussed some of them here. the problem of course is getmo could give up. you can't use it in courts. but, look, there are those who have been accused through the court system and have been convicted and have been sentenced to life in prison. >> it's not a right wing talking point when president obama himself hasn't released these people. >> it's not just that obama decided not to do it.
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>> nobody jumps up and down and gets hysterical about it. >> congress passed a law that said he couldn't close guantanamo. >> it doesn't mean it was right. >> we've got to end it. it's good to have your voice in this debate. the latest held captive by north korea. he's been sentenced 15 years to hard labor. ♪ [ male announcer ] the first look is only the beginning. ♪ ♪ this is a stunning work of technology. ♪
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seoul south korea, the united states is now demanding the release of an american citizen who piece been sentence today 15 years hard labor in a north korean prison camp. we don't know specifically what he did. he was arrested in november. he was actually taking -- he's a tour guide bringing chinese business guide to a special economic zone in the north.
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what do you do? i guess the fompler president to go over there. >> these are the worst type of headaches for the presidents. you have to protect your people. you have to do something for the other hand. it puts us, as americans, in a bad spot. the most important thing is back channels. we're former officials to get him out. this is a lesson the obama administration x to his credit, has learned negotiating with north korea never leads to anything good for the west or for america. >> do you mean on the hostages or in general? >> you and i believe in this. >> but north korea, all they do is lie and they get well-rewarded for it. >> we have one of the first
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policy themes that the bush administration did was kind of torpedo the sunshine policy and end all of that effort there. and what happened? under the '94 agreement of framework, there was a move forward. yes, they cheated a bit, but all the experts said it was manageable until president bush. they kicked out the iaea and they started nuclear testing. >> is that george bush violating his word to bill clinton? >> i'm herely saying that that is the time line of what happened. >> if you don't negotiate, what do you do?
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just pretend they don't exist? >> and so if they keep making more nuclear bombs? >> we're not going to stop them by negotiating. >> maybe they did. now, to president obama's credit, that's the issue. >> laura, great to have you on the program. this guy, ken knit bay now has been held and sentenced to 15 years. thankfully, that dbidn't occur. what was it like being held in
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north korea? >> he did so previously at a number of occasions. the next moment they don't know if they'll ever see him again. he had almost no contact with anybody. i believe he's been able to have contact with the british ambassador. those are extremely loose. the ambassador will match about his health and well being. there's very little else said. i'm sure he's still extremely helpless. >> by the way, you said five years, it was five months before former president clinton went over there. how do you get through those days? did you have contact with your family?
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mow do you get through those moments? i spent three days in lock-up in iran. it was the scariest day of my life. i can't imagine being in prison in north korea. >> fortunately, we were treated humanely and our conditions were decent. that was after a pretty violent beat i beating an initial beating when we were taken into the country. every second of the day is a struggle to get through. i was allowed a total of four phone calls. i was aloud some letters and that was the only thing that kept me going at that time.
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i think i sent one batch of letters out to my family. >> i want to address the question you were asking about diplomacy. it's not the only avenue leading through. i think we're missing china and the pressure that china could be exerting in this instance for its imports and food example. i have to disagree. i think it's a brave person that goes into north korea that tries to shed light on the terrible conditions there and help those poor north koreans who are suffering. >> everybody's tried to use china as leverage. china is playing a double game.
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>> why does china want north korea to be such a nightmare? >> they fear a bigger night mare. that's reunification. they don't want the north and south to be combined. that's china's buffer. they have worry about unifying. they're worried that if that does happen, they'll be on the doorstep, as well. but i do think it was under president bush. there was process in 2008.
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actually, it looks like secretary of state kerry who went over to south korea after that last, you know, three or four weeks ago. there was eruption and he was threatening to do missiles and this and that. the question is maybe you can't get over this. and just the way you dealt with soviet union, there are ways of dealing with these issues. i think the solution is let china worry about north korea. let them clapgs on their own. >> just ahead, some p.r. disasters almost call out for rubber necking. you've got the situation in bangladesh. there's also mountain dew just made one of the worst commercials ever. we'll talk about it all ahead.
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with odor free aspercreme. powerful medicine relieves pain fast, with no odor. so all you notice is relief. aspercreme. welcome back. a couple p.r. disasters happened this week, some involving heavy stuff. hundreds of people losing their lives in bangladesh in factory fires. mountain dew pulling back several racially loaded commercials. one professor called it -- in fact, this commercial that was made by a rapper for mountain dew, the most racist commercial
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ever made by a u.s. corporation. also, reese witherspoon just released information on her arrest. ma'am, what did i just tell you today? >> i am a u.s. citizen. i'm allowed to stand on american ground and ask any questions way tonight ask. are you kidding me? i'm an american citizen. this is beyond. you're harassing me. i have done nothing. >> yes, you have. >> reese? reese? >> i am now being arrested and
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handcuffed? do you know my name? >> you don't need to know my name? >> not quite. >> you're about to find out who i am. >> she was right about that. never, ever say do you know who i am. how can you arrest an american citizen? you can be arrested for disobeying a police officer's instructions. >> yes. i have to say, i thought it was a little harsh to arrest, based on what i saw. i think she made a bad situation worse. >> you do crisis p.r., when
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something like this happens, you have this horrible fire in bangladesh, building collapsed, 400 people have been killed and they're still trying to recover and rescue. how do you go about trying to fix it? >> separate the two, first of all. and in the case of reese, what shi did the very next day was actually give a very human and genuine amolg. polg. i think you have to look at her and say do i believe her? is she acting or not? >> look, i have a police officer in my family. that's the only thing from a crisis p.r. point of view you can do.
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>> it's so interesting how politicians rarely say okay, i made a mistake. political times, they're loathed to say -- they say i misspoke. >> this is a big deal. there are huge bribes being paid left and right. 10% of the parliament there are business owners. people looked the other way. >> it goes to the heart of the fact that there is no organized labor there. and this is what's happening! we all shop at walmart, or many of us do, and you can buy a pair of shorts for 5 bucks and their slogan is always low prices. why? because these people get paid nothing. >> but will american consumers care? >> disney has now stopped
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getting their stuff from there. the eu is threatening sanctions, canada s too. they get paid $37 a month. >> it's fascinating to see whether or not more and more things come to life, this has to be the hope of capitalism. you cannot have three pockets with work rules, labor rules, environmental rules are not followed. and the west needs to help them. the west has to help them. >> i just want to show people this. it is stunning that a major
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american country allowed this commercial to be aired. >> nail this little sucker. which one is he? point to him. ? >> it's me. you should have gave me some more. i'm nasty. >> i don't think i can do this. >> it's easy. i mean, you know, this is an interesting question. is it more racist or is it more bigoted against women? i mean, this is the -- >> and plus the whole thing, it's like you can't decide which is more horrible. >> the whole thing of snitches get stitches. people do not talk to police about what crimes they see. it's the bane of police existence. >> i do have a perspective on this. i think it's racist.
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it glorifies vulgarity, violence, by a rapper by a hip hop artist himself. elt's in regard to a racest who gets beat up. pepsi came out immediately and took responsibility. what you have here is the class of those people trying to be edgy through social media going viral. this was done at the subsidiary level. frankly, i don't get it. i don't see how it sells a thing. >> well, we've got to leave it right there. we'll have more ahead. we'll be right back. uh-huh. honey, i got this.
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thanks very much for watching, everyone. bye, bye. >> plus, who is the american sentenced to 15 years of hard labor in north korea? how did he end up there? and a woman declared dead. warned by her family for a decade. and then, out of the blue, appears. good evening, everyone, i'm erin burnett. we begin with breaking news. we have new details about al qaeda's role in the deadly benghazi attacks that killed four americans. accordin a