house, the parents can't be irresponsible, can that? and this from david. why are you so awesome? to which my answer is practice, a lot of practice. keep tweeting me ten piers morgan. anderson cooper starts right now. a special guest joining us in just a few minutes. join the conversation by tweeting with us. tonight a lot to cover. what we learned about how much worse the boston bombings could have been with us arriving suspects, when they were originally planning to attack and how that could have killed a lot more people. we will continue tonight, the hunger strike and for speeding at guantanamo bay prison.

the chief prosecutor will join the table. also disasters abound. reese witherspoon's arrest is out and why it does not play very well with law enforcement. and the other things she said as she acknowledges it. before we get to any of that, a lot to get to. want to go to california, an hour north of los angeles where firefighters at a monster fire on their hands. surrounded our correspondent, take a look what happened earlier. >> reporter: this is one of the leading edges of the fire. one of the main hot spots they had been trying to drop water on this area. as you can see, it is so smoky, almost impossible to get a good look at where the fire is burning. i can tell you it is all up there along the ridge. threatening all of these houses in this neighborhood. the smoke is absolutely horrific

and the heat is tremendous right now. the firefighters up against it. you can see where it is burning, circling this neighborhood and these people are right now trying to evacuate. >> crazy out think it was. paul, it is amazing how fast the fire is spreading as we look at some of the images. give us a sense of the scope of the fire. >> the scope is enormous. over miles and miles, burning on several flights. for the first time since the fire started we are hearing containment. as i pull out, you see the smoke in the distance. they're getting water and steam on and and the ventura county fire department tells me they have 10% containment and that was not happening earlier. talking about the scope of the fire. that is miles away and right behind us here we understand these firefighters may spend the night. they defended this neighborhood

expertly. you will recall the water drops were absolutely perfect. they got in with chain saws and cut down trees, they built a line around this upscale neighborhood in newbury park and did their job and so far from what we understand, there might have been house is slightly scorched but we have not had any houses destroyed in this massive fire. they gave the last update, 6500 acres. that stayed there for a long time. this might sound inside baseball but when firefighters are out fighting on many fronts, they are not getting reports from individual battalions on the acres. they don't often update them because of the pure focus on fighting the blaze and not providing the media with acreage numbers. >> 600 firefighters at the last count. appreciate your reporting. now to boston, the surviving alleged bomber telling investigators he and his brother

were planning a 4th of july attack using suicide bombs instead of backpacks on the sidewalk. what did you learn? >> this is coming to us from a law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. it gives new meaning to the term homemade bombs. dzhokhar tsarnaev tells investigators the bombs were put together with a volatile powder and shrapnel right there and tend to's apartment where he lived with his wife and child. his younger brother told the fbi this during his initial interrogation that the bombs were ready to go or lower-than-expected. originally they were planning to carry out their attack, 4th of july and make it a suicide attack. during each day celebrations in boston, famous for annual open-air concert and fireworks, instead they chose the boston marathon. and according to dzhokhar

tsarnaev, that decision was made within a few days of the marathon. sounds like a last-minute decision if you believe him. >> all of this information from a source you have, allegedly telling authorities that this is not him recently telling us. this was from the first day air two after he was arrested when he was still in hospital. >> when they were going and under the safety exemption. >> what do you make of this? >> it goes to the point that i really help the one day we hear the story of these two ways. i hope we hear all of this story because clearly this domestic terrorism and all enforcement people say is the biggest threat in the united states. bigger than overseas terrorism. we've got to get to the bottom of this. it is incredible to think they were able to turn on and turn it off. >> call me skeptical about the fact they were going to commit suicide. i have no doubt that he may have said that.

but here is a guy, the day after the suicide is back in his dorm. going to parties. it didn't look like someone who is that emotionally engaged. >> do you think they could take the penalty of the table to get him to talk? >> absolutely. that is what judy clarke does. the new defense attorney makes the deal that gives the government something of value. if the government is interested. they may say given the magnitude of this crime and he is the only defendant, given that we don't really need that much, his cell phone records and a computer, he has nothing of value. >> her report suggests that the authorities know a lot more than we do. >> they do have a laptop computer, we know that now. >> the bomb was built in the apartment where they were living, that would suggest that katharine ross so maybe we don't have the full story from her.

very dearly on we were told the younger brother said no one else knows about this. and not looks like it may get wider and wider. >> how could the wife not know about it in this tiny apartment? >> this is not an upper west side apartment. >>, want to bring and bob there who knows firsthand what is involved in bomb making. catalog of experience in this area. thanks for joining us. you have been skeptical of the idea these two built this device by themselves. anything you have heard tonight that he is saying they built the bomb and the house and moved up the timetable because they finished earlier than they thought they what? does that change your mind all? >> that could be consistent. it could be correct. two things i would like to say. one is al qaeda has a standard procedure for its operatives. when they are caught they are to say they did it on their own and

they did it at home. they took the design of the internet. there was no direction. that has been in place for the last four or five years. we don't know that has not happened in this situation. number two is i have seen nothing out there to explain how these two young men were able to change the design from the entire manual because it was changed. there were a couple of complicated editions added to its. this is not something they would know how to do. why did they deny? i still think trance to and got some instruction but that is just a hypothesis. they could do in the apartment. i doubt they were truly involved in the plot. maybe his wife was. so rarely drawn into these things they are on waiting.

>> given what we have seen it of the apparent lack of sophistication at least in the day today life of these brothers, don't you think by looking at their cell phones and their computers we will know who they were in contact with? they will not have a secret compartment. they will have talked to people on the fall, right? >> absolutely. the rest of it, their chats, if there was a u.s. network it will come to life. they weren't sophisticated enough to hide it completely. there will be a trace of it. the problem will be what happened in dagestan. what sort of direction he had and that would be face to face. not even the russians necessarily will be able to get at that. there will always be a question. i still have my suspicions that someone said and down and showed him how to make the parts for this bomb. >> "the new york times" reported

that based on sources they have the brothers what they were watching videos. interesting how these guys, how he hasn't used a lot of different attackers. >> if that is the case, they apparently did not meet him. he has been dead for a while but even before had they been germinating as far along time. these are not bumbling idiots. they put a bomb at the biggest sporting event in boston and killed three people and injured 200. they are not a bumbling idiots. >> i second that. you don't do two bombs in a crowded area without some instruction. >> if russian authorities were surveiling them as we understand that based on reporting that they were at least for a time, apparently lost them after the other boxer was killed, from canada, they lost tamerlan.

if there was surveillance going on, unless they were incompetent and nothing happened, wouldn't the russians have some idea what he was doing all that time? how good is their surveillance? >> it is very good but did they have 24-hour surveillance? it may have been sporadic. they may have been listening to their phones, they are not as good as the guys in moscow. and they lose people and to conduct surveillance, it could take years to run down all of their context. it is harder than you think in the russian system is not entirely efficient. he slipped away, it did not get his at the end. you may have missed his contact. >> do you have a question? >> one of the questions talking about dagestan, it is interesting that al qaeda claims these things and these people in dagestan disowned them and said

we have no fight with the united states. we are still waiting to see what links will be approved. you are former cia and many people ask you this. i want to know how come tamerlan, who has been interviewed, on a watch list and very incriminating facebook pages, why was u.s. law enforcement not after this guy? >> immigration was informed of joint terrorist attack in boston, about the return from kazakhstan who was arrested the system doesn't work. i have heard all of that. >> an enormous bill and spent multiple billions of dollars, other than the patriot acted the idea of creating a national intelligence office, the whole purpose was to avoid that.

>> i am so struck by the students that said tear on and if they would in turn brit the cryptic text messages to be directions, turned out to be take the last spot, take the bomb making materials. >> ready guiliani said last night it was instructive, he said -- we can argue everything he said that on this he is a former u.s. attorney and he said that these people, they are in deep trouble. >> the police officer could be alive if they did not tip him off. we have to take a break. up next, the chief prosecutor at guantanamo bay and what is going on. they have done a complete 180. also the top presidential adviser and a staunch defender

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if looking at the citadel, welcome to our viewers around the world and here in the united states. no single story has generated heat like what is going on at guantanamo bay.

and strike, medical officers for speeding some of them. whatever you think of the place of the people and it, it raises a lot of questions. someone who is that guantanamo, good to have a year. you say it should remain open and what do you think about for speeding? >> all of us wanted closed but how do you accomplish that and that is what we run into. somebody i know very well is trying to negotiate with other nations to take their prisoners. one of the best diplomats we have, he worked previously with the bush administration, a foreign service officer, trying to find places. no one wants them. demint particularly those 56 to have been cleared to go. >> we also found out -- >> there have been people who have returned to the battlefield. >> that was then.

>> the head of the senate intelligence committee specifically addressed this is you. the underwear bomber, others in congress suggested to president obama they do not allow people to go back to yemen but now she wants to reconsider. the president who is a strong u.s. ally and a strong fighter against al qaeda once these people to come back. >> you are talking about half the population. the remaining population of 80 people. there is another 80 who would still be at guantanamo. no one knows what to do with them. >> the process on the 86 being cleared. >> of those who are still there, we are not ready to deal with them. the fact of the matter is if we try to bring them to trial in the court system because they are terrorists and not exactly seen with yellow tape around them with gloves on a crime

scene, they will get off on a technicality in american courts. >> they are not being tried in american court. >> the trials in american courtrooms of terrorists, people accused of terrorism have been 100% successful. >> he was acquitted. >> someone very involved in this is more us davidson, in september 2005, he was the chief prosecutor in military commissions and he resigned in protest. good to have you on the program. you have done a 180, what impact do you think them staying open is having right now? >> i don't see the upside. the president laid out tuesday it costs them a fortune. estrange our credibility. the law that has come out of

guantanamo, they have all been adverse to the u.s. there is no upside to keeping an open other than right-wing talking points to say the president will be weak on terrorists. >> would you do with the people that are there? >> one way to end the hunger strike is to land a plane there, fly them home. the detainees fault when there was forward progress and it would be over. you would and us having to force the people or let them die. for the others, we have to make a decision. as the president said tuesday leaving people in jail forever without trial is fundamentally wrong and it's got to stop. we have to act like americans again. the land of the free and home of the brave. we either release them and send them home or we give them a trial. >> for all of those who are wondering about what do you do with the rest, 66 from yemen, intel 86 people have been cleared for transfer.

what about the others? i have talked to many defense lawyers who say the reason they cannot be processed is because there is no evidence being put against them. they can't go to trial, they are in legal limbo and some of them are accidental prisoners. these people are being bought off and tipped off. it is true. >> in 2009 they did a review of the detainees. almost all of them are connected to either al qaeda or the taliban. >> would you think should happen to those people? >> there is a group, the 86 cleared for transfer, i don't think the american public understands these are people the fbi and cia, the department of defense said we will not charge with a crime, they are not an eminent threat and we don't want to keep them. we are spending $8,000 a year per person to keep them at guantanamo. get rid of those, send them

home, a group of 30 the administration wants to prosecute and that is a foreign choice and i think it ought to be in federal court or we have been extraordinarily successful and fast. guantanamo in 11 years has had seven convictions. six are free men in their home country and six of the seven their convictions have been overturned on appeal. those indefinite detainee's that we hold them because we argue we are at war and we have their right. we bring the troops out of afghanistan next year and that goes away. we need to think about how to solve this. >> what do we do? and that is where i think the president has to be consistent. if the thinks it is our best interest to close it, close it and bring them to court. military or civilian. the president should take a stand and if they're found not guilty let them go on the streets. if they are found guilty, fine.

chances are most of them will not be found guilty and the only consistent thing to do is leave them there or acknowledge they will be free to walk on the streets. >> what do you do about the hunger strike right now? >> what is the more humane thing to do? do you force feed someone or let them die of starvation? >> if you do, if you don't. i don't know. >> if you began sending people home that have been cleared, it would shell light at the end of the tunnel. that is what they have done, given up. >> of the 86 to have been cleared, there are no countries that will take them. >> they won't take these people. >> i don't think yemen is secure enough that we could trust these people to take them.

>> i have done the homework on that. talk to peter bergen, he has written copious articles and so many others have as well about recidivism in various years. basically at best or at were 6%. >> beyond sending them away to and this log jam, for speeding is that humane or is it more humane to let them die? >> marriage to what the colonel said that if progress is made, people see there is a way for them to be dealt with. you want to have every prison has to be humanitarian. and there is absolution. >> wait a minute. why do we have guantanamo in the

first place. >> we have a because of your administration. >> it is not a question of whether or not we should be trying people in military commissions. these people don't even wear a military uniform. they engaged in battle as terrorists, the loss of 4. that is why guantanamo god invented in the first place. >> i don't believe that obama bin laden and his group are worse are dangerous like adolf hitler. reduced him by following the rule of law. they were uniforms and they fought us on the battlefield. these people are fundamentally by design different. >> i don't believe that for a minute. >> you want to do have this whole thing about enemy combatant. the defense secretary, donald

rumsfeld, decided no geneva convention. >> even though they did not qualify because they did not wear a uniform. it is the law, it ought to be dealt with. >> is a violation of international law. for speeding is also a violation of international medical ethics. >> we know that. in the short term, if you oppose for speeding and we are not closing at next week and they could die of starvation, what do you think is the solution? >> this solution in many instances is a way to get rid of these people. you have to leave them here, try them proper courts. the problem is also that it was set up so you could enhance the interrogation of people and a lot of that you can't use in court. there are those who have been accused to have gone through the court system and had been convicted and have been sentenced to life in prison.

i don't know why people don't have faith and -- >> is not a right wing talking point. president obama himself. >> it is not just that obama decided not to do it. what happened was, when he said he would bring him here to manhattan to try the case, congress passed a law that said he could not close guantanamo. he does not have that option available to him. it does not mean it was right. >> we have to it and it. good to have your voice in this debate. thank you. coming up the latest captives held by north korea, 15 years hard label innate labor camp. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health

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prison camp. kenneth bae was found guilty of hostile acts against the state. we don't know what he did to upset their government but he was arrested in november after arriving as a tourist. bringing chinese businessman to an economic zone in the north. for the u.s. government is present new challenges. what you do to try -- >> these are the worst headaches for presidents. you have to protect our people. on the other hand why any american is going into north korea is a terrible judgment mistake. it puts us in a bad spot. the most important thing for this administration is to work back channels, when former officials to get him out do not negotiate with north korea. this is what the obama administration has learned. negotiating never lead to anything good for the west or for america. >> on the hostage or in general?

>> in general. on the hostage, work the back channels. >> all they do is light and get rewarded for it. >> we talked about get low, and we have four of the first foreign-policy is the first bush administration did was torpedoed the sunshine policy and then all of that effort. >> you are ignoring the fact that north korea lied to the administration. >> i will get there. under the framework there was an amazing move forward and everybody who was concerned with that said that. there was an agreement by the north koreans to start with plutonium. they cheated a bit of all the experts say that was manageable. until president bush, they kicked out and started nuclear

testing. >> and violating their words to bill clinton. >> that is the timeline of what happened. there are experts who say -- >> if you don't negotiate, what do you do? pretend they don't exist and let them make threats and you don't reward them by giving them more energy? >> if they keep making more nuclear bombs -- >> president clinton's negotiations with north korea, they lied to president bush and now to president obama's credit, he started the negotiation. >> let me bring and laura, held captive for nearly five months until former president clinton secured their release. can you describe what kenneth bae has been held and, sentenced

to 16 years. you were sentenced to a lengthy time and thankfully that did not occur. what was it like being held captive in north korea? >> it was the most terrifying thing in my life. a man who was then north korea, he had been there previously on a number of occasions. one moment his family believes he is doing his job and the next moment they have no contact with him and they don't know if they will see and never again. he is isolated in the most isolated country in the world with almost no contact with anybody. i believe he has been able to have contact with the british ambassador. extremely brief. they are of a consular nature and. the ambassador will last about his health but there is very

little help, i am sure he feels helpless. >> your help for five months before former president clinton went over there. how'd you get through those days? did you have contact with your family? i talked to his sister, only one phone call and all of this time. just happened a couple of days ago. how'd you get through those moments where i spent three days in lock up and it was the scariest three days of my life. i cannot imagine being in prison and north korea for five months. >> we retreated humanely and our conditions were decent. that was after a violent beating when we were taken into the country. i was grateful for our treatment after that. every second of the day it was a struggle to get through. i was allowed a total four phone calls to my family.

that is more than his family has had. but aside from that, very short calls. i was allowed some letters and that was huge comfort. the only thing that kept us going during that time were the letters that i would send. i don't know if he has been allowed that but i think i said i have one batch of letters to my family and that was it. >> i want to address the question you're asking about diplomacy. not the only avenue, a former president genuflecting at the field of kim jung-un on. the pressure that china can be exerting in this instance, they depend on them for their imports for food, for example. can we use that route in order to free him and i have to disagree. a brave person that goes there to try to shed light on the

terrible conditions and help the north koreans who are suffering under this tyrannical machine. >> everybody has tried to use it as leverage, i think china ought to kidnap a case like this, in terms of the bigger picture they are playing a double game. they really don't want help. they don't mind what is going on on the peninsula. >> why does china want north korea to be a nightmare? >> a bigger nightmare, reunification. they do not want them combined because if they did it would really be in the south that would be reunited north. it would be capitalistic, american influence, on the border of china. that is there but for. >> the collapse and it whenever that might do to them, they worry that if that does happen,

it happens that the usa would be on their doorstep. i think, it was under president bush that there was progress. there was in 2008. all agreement with the north koreans. things were going well for awhile. and now we are back in a terrible state again. it is not going to go away. it looks like the secretary of state who went over to south korea after the last three four weeks ago with a huge corruption, and they said maybe we will have talks. the question as i don't think you can get over this by just sanctions and anger. it has not worked. the way you dealt with the soviet union, there are ways of dealing with it. >> i think the solution is for no more western energy or food aid. let china worry about them and let them collapse on their own and they will. >> great to have you on the program, laura, thanks for

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a couple of disasters this week to to about. hundreds of people losing their lives in bangladesh in a factory fire, the numbers keep rising. ramen do pulling back several racial commercials. the commercial made by someone from out and do the most racist commercials done by a u.s. corporation. reece witherspoon's video has been released justitia was trying to prepare her reputation. take a look at how the arrest went down. it is extraordinary. >> what i just how you to do? he is under arrest. >> i am a u.s. citizen, i am still allowed to stand on american ground. any question i want to ask. you had better not arrest me. are you kidding me? i am an american citizen. >> get in that car and stand there. >> this is harassment. you are harassing me.

i have done nothing against the law. >> yes, you have. >> i have to obey your orders? i have done absolutely nothing. i am now being arrested and handcuffed? do you know my name, sir? you don't need to know my name? >> not quite yet. >> you are about to find out who i am. >> she is right about that. >> anybody else out there who is well-known never say do you know who i am. >> it is disturbing someone who was a legally blind did not know that american citizens get arrested. >> how can you arrest me? i am an american citizen. it happens every day. >> you cannot be arrested for disobeying instructions. >> i have to say was harsh to arrester based on what i saw

this certainly within his rights. i did not think -- she made a bad situation worse. >> how did that video get out and get public? >> on a serious note, when something like this happens or even more serious, the bangladesh horrific event or the building collapsed, 400 people killed. >> more than 400 have been killed, they are still trying to recover and rescue. not so much, it is really bad. >> how you about trying to fix it? >> they are totally different. what she did, she did the very next day was give a very human and a genuine apology. and i think you have to look at her and say do i believe her, is she acting or not. i believe her. >> she was like i have police officers and my family, i was saying ridiculous things and i

am sorry. >> that is the only thing you can do, it has to be immediate. acknowledge what you did was wrong, apologize. you don't need -- it has to be real and fast. >> they really say i am sorry, i made a mistake. and the critical world often times, they are loath to say they miss the boat. >> the minister of bangladesh, there are huge bribes being paid left and right. also business owners, people look the other way. this factory was basically a land grab by a well-connected guy who builds more floors. >> huge cracks but also it goes to the organized labor, all of us in the west, which like cheap

fashions. this is what is happening. >> when we shot that walmart, you can buy a pair of shorts for $5 and their slogan as always low prices. why are they always low prices? will american consumers care? >> disney has now stopped getting their stuff up from there. canada is, too. other big garment retailers. do you know how much they are paid? $37 a month. the pope yesterday called that slave labor. >> the sweatshops and issues like this have been going on for awhile. what is fascinating is whether or not as more and more things like this come tonight, economic standards start to rise. this has to be the hope of capitalism that you cannot have free bastions where labor rules are just not followed. we follow them in the west in

the united states. before it arrives in these other nations -- >> the west also now has to help. >> i want to show people this commercial. is stunning a major company allow this commercial to be made. take a look. >> we have the mall lined up. nail the sucker, which one is the? point to them. >> it is me. he should have given me some more. >> i don't think i can do this. >> just point to him. >> the one with the four legs. >> this is an interesting question. is a racist or bigoted against women? >> you cannot decide which is

more horrible. >> the fact people do not talk to the police about what crimes they see, is the bane of existence. >> a beat up woman? >> i have a perspective on this. i think it is racist in so far as hip-hop culture glorifies vulgarity, violence by a hip hop artist. there is a follow on to a previous commercial where the woman as a waitress who gets beat up and now she is there to pick them out of the lineup. i object. the person who created this thinks it is funny but it was not. >> pepsi came out immediately and took responsibility even though it was a subsidiary. what we have is the clash between those people where things are supposed to go viral and mainstream corporate america. i don't get. i don't see how it sells

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all of you. thanks for watching, good-bye. "outfront," next after eight months, u.s. officials say they know who attacked the american consulate in libya. plus, who is the american sentenced to 15 years of hard labor in north korea? and how did he end up there? and a woman declared dead for a decade and then out of the blue appears. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone, i'm erin burnett. we begin with breaking news. we have new details about al qaeda's role in the deadly benghazi attacks that killed four americans.