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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  May 7, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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and she crawled out of it. >> charles ramsey, another neighbor, chris, as you know, helped her get out. he's lived here for about a year and had no idea what was going on. >> i love when mr. ramsey said to you i had to put cowardess aside and help someone in need. the one thing knox is certainly guilty of is acting in ways that most would find strange. we'll get to her response in just a moment. but, first, the litany of odd behavior that condemned her in the eyes of so many. >> who kisses in front of a murder scene. who does gymnastics in front of investigators, giggles when their girlfriend lay murdered.
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amanda knox did. behavior that led many to suspect her as cold, unemotional, downright bizarre. when she arrived at the scene of kircher's murder, there were things that seemed strange. like the front door being flung open. speckles of blood. but she still took a shower there, stepping out onto a bath mat with a bloody footprint. unsettling the prosecutors, mops removed a mop from the scene and brought it back to her boyfriend's house. amanda and raphael share an embrace. their kisses fuel headlines portraying her as a sex-obsessed femme fatale. amanda and raphael cuddling, making faces at each other. knox doing a split in between interrogations.
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knox was spotted at a boutique and purchasing underwear the press dubbed saucey. her image as foxy knoxy is now solidified. knox would later say the statement was coerced. knox was found guilty of defaming him. another piece to the puzzle of knox's behavior. >> every piece of a puzzle looks strange until you put them all together. it doesn't really register as unusual in. >> it did register as unusual. and i never said that it didn't. >> i felt strange. i almost felt like someone over your shoulder feeling. so i got out of there in a hurry.
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>> and then something that haunts me. you panicked. you want to go. you're in too much of a rush. maybe meredith is here, maybe she's not, but i don't want to deem with that right now. so you're going to get out. you're worried. you grab a mop. what's up with the mop? why would you grab a mop if you're in a panic to get out of the house? who does that? >> i mean, i grabbed it very quickly. >> why? you're in a panic? who thinks? >> i promised raphael that i would bring it. >> now, the things that smark out. you call your mom, i don't know, it's the middle of the night. what do you think of this? she's worried. oh, you better call the authorities. >> she said to talk to raphael and my roommates. >> so you get there, but you don't talk to him right away. >> he was in the bathroom. >> i told her.
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>> she's much more panicy than you were. >> she is. so i called filamena and i told her what i saw. >> so filamena says get back to the house, we want to figure out what's going on. what do you bring with you? >> bring raphael and the mop. >> again, with the mop. why the mop? >> it's my house's mop. i brought it to raphael's, like i promised i would. we picked up the water that had remained and i brought it back. >> seems unusual because a mop is what you use to clean. and now we're going to deal with the prosecutors who think that you cleaned your dna. >> well, to suggest that i used that mop to clean up the crime scene is absurd. >> the mop is weird, but when they search the mop, they test the mop, it's clean. we move on.
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you find out the most horrible truth of what was going on in that house. now you know: now you're outside. and now begins another box to check. you don't react the right way. you don't react if right way. you're kissing your boyfriend. you're not supposed to do that. >> supposed to. well, i think people forget that i did not see into meredith's room. it was inexplicable, the idea she had been murdered. how? why? who? all of these things were things i was struggling to even confront emotionally, but, also, just understanding. >> but you're kissing your boyfriend. >> well, he kissed me because i was outside in that courtyard. and i was standing there looking lost and he felt bad for me. he kept close to me.
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he was just trying to comfort me. and there was nothing he could say to tell me that it was going to be all right. he just did what we normally did. which was kissing. >> your roommates, your boyfriend, the cops, they all say the same thing. they thought you were responding weird. odd. strange. why? why are you the one who is strange? what makes you strange? >> i reacted differently than the way people expected a young woman to react. but to hold me to a stereotype of how people react to certain things is unreasonable. it's unreasonable to assume guilt based upon a reaction.
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my reaction was more stunned than anything else. >> but it's not just one-on-one thing, right? there's the kissing. there's the split. there's the repeated nonchalance or what they see as nongrief. >> i went into perusia very young, not just 20, but just young. young and sheltered and inexperienced. and, you know, when i first heard and understood that meredith had been murdered. my immediate reaction was oh my god, i could be dead. and, you know, that was selfish of me to think i could be dead and not think oh my god, meredith is dead. i thought oh hi god, i could be be dead right now. i was simply reacting to what
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was happening. and it never occurred to me that someone would view my behavior as suspicious. it was simply me reacting to what was happening. >> the next thing that happens is the big ticket. you said you were there. you said you knew who did it. >> what i said didn't make sense. what i said, i mean,if you look at what the police wrote up as what i had said, it says that patrick lamumba did it, that i was scared, that i didn't understand and it has nothing to do with what actually ended up being found objectively from evidence whamd. i had no idea what happened that night. >> so why did you say it? >> the police told me that i knew who the murderer was. they told me that i had to know. that i wasn't telling them the truth. that i had amnesia and that i
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had to remember. so what. they're wrong. why didn't you just say you're wrong. i'm going to leave now. >> first of all, i didn't know that i could leave. i was told that i couldn't. they are telling me that the only way to explain it is trauma and induced amnesia. >> and that's why you gaf the statement? >> because i believed them. i believed them that i must have been wrong. i couldn't think straight when they were screaming at me the entire time. i started being able to remember what i did do that night. they had asked me so many times. and i signed to it just to make it stop. >> coming up, the retrial that could throw knox back in prison. why is the victim's family still going after her?
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>> have you reached out to her family yet. >> not directly. >> why not? you know who reaches out? somebody who has nothing to hide. >> plus, a new fear. and how knox is fighting back. >> there are not normal people who are fixated on me. and i don't know what they're capable of. great first gig! let's go! party! awwwww... arigato! we are outta here! party...... finding you the perfect place, every step of the way. hotels.com
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♪ wireless is limitless. ♪ from finding the best way... ♪ to finding the best catch... ♪ wireless is limitless. welcome back to "amanda knox: the unanswered questions." first guilty and then freed on appeal. but now the italian court system is taking one last shot. knox now faces the uncertainty of extradition, the terror of being thrown back behind bars and the pain of who did this in the first place. you're shocked that there's going to be a retrial, yes? >> yeah.
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>> why? >> because there's no evidence against me. the physical evidence that the prosecution was putting forth and damning against me was proven to be wrong. and for all of their theories about my personality and my behavior, there is nothing that links me to this murder. i am not present at the crime scene. i am just not. and the idea that i could have participated in a murder and yet be not present at the crime scene is ludicrous. so people can talk about my behavior and talk about my active sexual life all they want, but it's irrelevant to the fact that there is no evidence that places me at the murder scene. >> do you think you come off to i can't prove it and not enough i didn't do it.
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do you understand the distinction? ask me if i killed somebody, the answer is no, i didn't do it. i didn't do it. i didn't do it. not you can't prove it. not you can't place me at the scene. do you understand how you can't place me at the scene sounds cagey? >> yeah, i mean, i have profesed from the very beginning that i didn't do it. i was screaming it to the prosecutor when they were screaming at me during my interrogation telling me i had an news ya and telling them that i didn't do it and no one listened to me. it's like i'm having to prove my innocence instead of just saying it. >> the retrial, the kircher family wants it. are you aware of that? >> yeah. >> what does that mean to you? >> i know that they're getting their information about what happened to meredith through
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their lawyer who -- whose process has been completely married to the prosecution. >> but the bottom line, if they want a retrial, what does it mean about what think they about you? >> that means that they think i'm guilty. and i know this. they are grieving the loss of their family member. they deserve to have every answer. the idea that someone knows what happened and isn't saying anything and isn't being held responsible is maddening. i understand that. but it's not -- i'm not responsible for what happened. i didn't do it. i wasn't there. i don't know anything more about it.
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>> you didn't go to the vigil for meredith. >> yeah. >> should you have? >> i mean, i found out about it almost right before it happened. i mean, i wish i would have asked raphael to put his plans aside and let me go. it was simply a matter of we had spent hours and hours and hours in the police office and it was an overwhelming situation. that is something that i regret. >> have you reached out to her family yet? >> not directly. >> why not? >> well, i know that they think that i'm guilty. >> you think it helps that they haven't heard from you? even if they say they don't want to? >> you know, i wish i had gotten ahold of them much earlier. at the very beginning. >> you know who reaches out?
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>> who? >> somebody who has nothing to hide. that's who reaches out. >> it's fru. true. i guess my lawyers were afraid that if i said anything or reached out in any way, it would just be picked up by the police and misconstrued into something horrible and it was this horrible paranoia that we were all feeling. and i feel like since then, there have only been years and years of a wall built between us that i am unsure of how to climb and i am unsure of whether it's the right thing to climb it yet. i've always thought that i wanted to approach them when this was all over. >> will you go face the trielg? will you go back? >> i don't know yet. it's a really complicated question.
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i'm afraid to go back there. i don't want to go back into prez. prison. i don't want them to do a court order just respecting the court and the prosecution be asked that i'm put in preventative detention again. i was there for four years. >> could you do more time? >> me? >> could you do it? could you handle it? >> i'm having to handle things. i've not really been given a choice. and i think people have sort of underestimate what that means and what effect that has had on me and my life. i constantly ask myself why? why me? i have no choice but to confront this. and i don't know. i am so afraid. >> if you go back, you might not wind upcoming back to america for a very long time.
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>> yeah, and i'm afraid of that. >> coming up, caught in a nightmare. knox's raw and terrifying life behind bars. >> i would have to throw up my arms and tell them that -- and scream out that i am not attacking you. >> plus, the potential retrial. could amanda knox wind up back behind bars. >> is there any chance that the prosecutors have developed dna evidence that they didn't see before that puts you at the crime scene.. investors just like youc m, could lose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. thankfully e-trade has low cost investments and no hidden fees. but, you know, if you're still bent on blowing this fat stack of cash, there's a couple of ways you could do it. ♪ ♪
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knox spent eight months on complete lockdown. it was within these walls that knox says a guard leered at her, groped her, invaded her privacy. in a cruel twist, knox says a prison doctor told her she was hiv positive, perhaps in an effort to make her list all of her sexual partners. the diagnosis was false. one of the things that kept her alive was twice weekly visits at only an hour each. over the course of years behind bars, knox says she became numb. and as the verdict drew near, she suffered from anxiety
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attacks. knox says she even contemplated suicide. >> you wind up in prison. what is prison like every day? >> your entire life is according to the prison's schedule at that point. i mean, there are dez ig nated times for eating. there are designated times for socializing, there are dez ig nated times to be outside and breathing fresh air. most of the time you spend ntsds your cell, all you have is what the guards are telling you. all you have is what they're not telling you, also. >> the hiv test had to be horrible to deal with that.
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do you think it was a pressure tactic? >> my lawyers think so. >> strategy aside, those months when you're living with this distinct possibility that you have hiv, what does it do you you emotionally? >> it was on top of everything that was happening. i felt like, all of the sudden, my entire life was this train wreck. all of it screamed impossible. and i was just helpless. i felt like it must all be a mistake, but i am still living it. it is just complete shock and helplessness. i'll give you an example of the kind of pressure that i was
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under. other prisoners can be very cruel to each other. it's just when you're desperate and you're in a bad schismuation, some people's reaction is just to be very cruel to the people around them. and some people are very violent. i was locked in a cell with these people. the way the prison works, if something happens, if some sort of confrontation happens, it's everyone's fault. no matter who started it. no matter how it happened. it's everyone's fault. and i was terrified that i was going to be attacked. not because i was afraid of being hurt. i was afraid of being branded a violent person because someone else attacked me. i was very conscious and very aware that if someone attacked me, i would have to throw up my
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arms and tell them that -- and scream out that i am not attacking you. everyone, please be my witness that i'm not attacking you. because i can't -- i couldn't everyone defend myself the way other prisoners would defend themselves. other prisoners would throw up their arms and defend themselves. i couldn't do that. everything was under the control of these people who were only out to show that i was a terrible person. the prosecution looked at everything i did as my dooef yen si and perversion. they talked about me in the courtroom and the fact that i
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wouldn't look at the pictures of meredith's corpse and said it was because i didn't care. >> were they right? >> no, i just didn't want to see my friend as a corpse. i didn't want to see that in the middle of a courtroom. i didn't want to see her as this thing. i just didn't want to see it. and that means that i just don't care. everything that i did was being interpreted as me being a murderer. i never had a chance. i was just constantly afraid. that i would do -- i was afraid to move. i was afraid. i was afraid to talk to people. i was just afraid all of the time. that anything i did would be used against me in this horrible and inexplicable way because that was what was happening to me. there was nog i koumd do that was good. there was nothing i could do that was right.
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and i was scared. i just completely clammed up. i completely went into myself. i became this person today that just holds still. >> coming up, living in the aftermath of a four-year ordeal and trying to move on. >> it's hard for me to talk about it. as soon as i allow myself to cry, i can't stop. >> plus, the drastic stops knox is taking to make sure no one can hurt her gep. >> what happened to your hand? your right hand? since aflac is helping with his expenses while he can't work, he can focus on his recovery. he doesn't have to worry so much about his mortgage,
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so far tonight, you have heard amanda knox fight to clear her name against a murder charge and against headlines all too willing to paint her as a she-devil. but if knox is telling the truth, think about what she has suffered. what that must do to a young person's life. what it will do to the rest of her life. even if she never returns to italy, the fallout remains. damage. she details in her new book.
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and you're about to hear just how bad she says it got. for instance, the fear that can strike her now at any time. >> i sit in the hotel room and cry so loud until the security calls the room. >> the fear that someone is after her. >> there are not normal people who are fixated on me. and i don't know what they're capable of. >> how many might mares where you wake up in prison? it's not double jeopardy. >> i mean, i had a panic attack on saturday. two days ago, i had a panic attack.
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>> when you say panic attack, you don't mean a moment of doubt, right? >> no, i sit in my hotel room and cry so loud until the security calls the room because the person next door has heard me crying. >> are you getting help for that? >> no. i don't know -- it's really hard for me to talk to people about it. as soon as i allow myself to cry, i can't stop. >> you have to get help for it. they told you that in prison. >> i didn't trust people in prison. >> you're not in prison now. you can't go having random panic attacks for something that may not be over for a very long time. got to find a way to deal with it. >> you know, it's funny. i keep thinking i'm dealing with it. and i'm dealing with it really well. i keep thinking that. i keep thinking that i'm going on with my life. i'm going to school.
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i'm there with my family. i'm able to open up with my family and then this kind of stuff happens where i just can't -- it makes me think about all of the people who don't any sort of answer for the kind of things that they're having to go through. i mean, if i -- if i were different, this could be so much worse. >> what happened to your hand? your right hand? >> oh, these are -- i'm taking self defense classes right now. >> self defense classes? >> i mean -- >> so they're like punch callouss? what's that about? >> if i learn -- i learned when i was in prison that in a bad
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situation, i turn into a deer in the head lightings. i just -- i can't move. i can't breathe. and there were -- i mean, i've received death threats since i've been home. and i don't ever want to be caught in a situation that meredith was caught in where someone is able to overpower me because i just don't know what to do. all right, so now i'm taking self defense classes where the first thing they teach you is to scream and to not stop screaming. and then they feature you how to get out of someone's grip. so, for instance, the last time i was in self defense class, we were practicing what happens if someone comes up behind you and starts strangling you. >> are you worried that somebody is going to attack youm?
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>> i don't know what's going to happen. all i know is there are people out there -- so you asked me recently if i feel like a normal person. and i do. but there are not normal people who are fixated on me. and i don't know what they are capable of. i don't. >> your hands are pretty beat >> yeah, i'm taking it seriously. >> a lot of what you carry from prison is in your head. but one thing you carry from prison is almost literally on your heart. where did you get the bird? >> this is from don salo. he gave it to me on the day of my appeal.
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he gave it to me from his church. he gave it to me that he hoped for me it would remind me of how of our conversations about how one is free. and that i was free, no matter what happened. someone's asked me who had it worse, meredith or me. and they've put forth the a argument that why don't you think that you've had it worse because you've had to go through all of this years and years of all of this. why don't you think that you had it worse. and it's, like, i still have the chance to live. and as much as my identity has been taken away from me and my freedom has been taken away from me, that and more was taken away from meredith. >> regrets? take back? do again?
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>> i would take back my interrogation. when i think back on it, and, god, especially right afterwards. right after all of that happened. i wished, i wished so much that i had stood up to them. that i understood enough what was going on and i would have told them to just leave me alone and walk out. i wish -- >> you hate yourself for that? >> it's pretty hard to live with. >> because it's in a big way would put you where you are. >> i feel so bad for my younger self sometimes.
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when i think about it. there were times when i thoughtives going crazy in prison and it was just literally talking to my younger self. i would be alone thinking about the past and thinking about all of my regrets and the older sister in me was trying to comfort my younger self because i'm sorry i couldn't have done better. i wish i could have been stronger. >> coming up, living her life after prison. how much has amanda knox changed. >> still smoke weed? >> plus, her final plea. >> believe me because. believe me because. assed about . [ designer ] enough of just covering up my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis.
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executive says they paid over $2.1 million, taking out three mortgages and draining both retirement funds to pay for the yet-to-be-concluded trial. >> between 22 family members, more than one hundred trips to italy, coordinating time off work, vacation and sick time so that one relative was always close to amanda. never leaving her alone. everyone after she was finally home, her family's debt was only the beginning of her anxiety-ridden reality. her family worried she might have post-traumatic stress disorder. through it all, knox is struggling for a sense of normal. she's back in school here at the university of washington taking creative writing classes. ♪ we just all be free
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>> and still playing guitar. it's an instrument she discovered as a child. it became her prison past time. and there is someone new in her life. a boyfriend, james toronto. an old friend who sent her letters while she was in jail. but with a retrial looming, what she calls the night mare isn't over yet. >> life now. what does normal mean? >> i think i'm very fortunate that most people treat me just like anybody else. >> you get that vibe with everyone you meet? do they think i'm a killer? do they think i'm a killer? >> fortunately, i'm not living in that mental place. that would be something that's unlivable. but at the same time, i mean, i
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still am living through this. >> can you still have fun? >> i mean, it's not like i'm -- my sister says that i don't have fun. i do what's important to me. and when i'm with people that i trust, i have a good time. i laugh. i dance. >> do you party. >> no, i don't go to parties. >> why not? it's not part of normal life. how old are you now? >> i'm 25. >> you're just a baby. >> don salo said i aged 40 years in four. i'm not interested in partying. >> still smoke weed? >> actually, no. >> why not?
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>> after being in prison, and seeing how drugs destroyed the lives of so many people around me, i can't get near it. >> your family mortgaged, like, their entire life for you. yes? >> yeah. >> it took a lot of heart, also took a lot of financial strain, right? this is part of payback, right? tell me about that. >> well, houses were mortgage, retirement was dug into, credit card limits were maxed. >> lawyers aren't cheap. >> lawyers aren't cheap. and i often had to pay for the elements of the prosecutor's investigation. i had to pay for translations.
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i just -- people don't often realize the financial toll this took on my family and our lives were never going to be able to move forward and that we weren't going to be able to afford to defend me. in the future. if something didn't happen. and i've been very fortunate that value has been -- has been identified in what i went there u. >> this wasn't about amanda getting to live dolci vita, right? this is about paying back your family's debts for a large part? >> a large part of it is that. another part of it is that i simply -- i wanted to reclaim who i was. and at the same time, i felt like i had something to give people through my experience. i truly, truly feel like this is more than just about me.
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this is about how people -- how people take advantage of others. how authority figures go unchecked. how identities are reappropriated. how certain people aren't given a chance. and this continues to happen to more than just me. and i'm incredibly fortunate that i came out of it. that so many people don't. and what i really hope will happen is that some people will read this and get comfort for anything that they're suffering from in their life. other people will read it and think oh, my god, this really does happen. and other people will read it and go okay, at least i
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understand where she was coming from when she did this. i know that so many people are confronting my book with very different intentions. and i hope what comes through is the fact that i'm not afraid to be honest. >> coming up, the next chapter. what's in store for amanda knox. >> i don't know how long i can hold it together. i don't know how long i can defend myself. woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment.
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is there any chance that prosecutors come up with a witness that can place you at the scene? >> no. >> is there any chance that the prosecutors develop dna evidence that puts you at the crime scene? >> no. g is there a witness who can put you with gadet? >> no. >> in the days before? >> no. >> there's to chance? >> no chance. i mean, what they -- what they did, i mean, the prosecution claimed that it was meredith's dna on the knife, and it wasn't. that it was raphael's dna on the bra clasp because he was there and that wasn't true. claimed that it was raphael's footprints. they're going to claim things and i don't know what they're going to do because it always sounds like it's coming out of nowhere.
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but as far as i'm concerned, there is no evidence against me and there never will be any evidence against me. i just wasn't there. >> believe me because? >> believe me because i'm telling the troouts. >> believe me because i'm telling the truth. >> five years from today, what do you want? in your life? >> i hope that i will be definitively found innocent. i hope that i can reconcile myself with patrick and meredith's family. i hope to be finished with school and to be always close to my family. but i really want this to be
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behind me. i need this. i don't know how long i can hold it together. i don't know how long i can defend myself. and i've -- the idea that i'm going to have to be defending myself against accusations of murder for the rest of my life, it's impossible. >> thank you for taking the opportunity. i know this wasn't easy. >> thanks for listening. >> we may never know exactly what happened in that villa on the night of november 1st, 2007. remember, in court, we can only know what prosecutors show. and, to date, the proof has not
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matched their persistence in this case. despite this, amanda knox's behavior and incriminating words remain around her neck like a noose. will she ever truly be free? i'm chris cumo in new york, piers morgan live starts right now. > this is "piers morgan live." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. tonight, live, late breaking news from cleveland's house of horrors. we're asking all the big questions, what did the fbi find today, where are the castro brothers right now and what about amanda berry, gina dejesus and michele knight and the 6-year-old found in the house? were there more children? plus the most important question of all. how could all this have happened in plain sight? tonight, what the neighbors saw and what the people who knew the suspects think now. >> this has come to a shock to me, to hear that he's involved