cleveland. brooke? >> hi, i'm jake tapper. right now we're learning more shocking details about what transpired in cleveland. dna tests confirm that amanda berry gave birth to ariel castro's baby, the ohio attorney general's office says the tests show the man accused of kidnapping her and raping her, that he is the father. castro's grown daughter is telling cnn about the times she was with him in the home, unknowingly just feet from his alleged victims. >> ever since my mom lived in that house, the basement was always kept locked. i've never been upstairs in the house. and i never had reason to be. i asked him if i could see my room for old time's sake and he says, oh, honey, there is so much junk up there, you don't want to go up there. >> castro's mother saying she's ashamed by what her son is accused of doing.

>> translator: i have a sick son who has done something serious. i'm suffering very much. i ask for forgiveness from those mothers. may those girls forgive me. i suffer the pain they suffered. i'm suffering for my son's pain. my son is sick and i have nothing to do with what my son did. >> again, dna tests confirm that amanda berry's child is -- was fathered by ariel castro. no doubt the first days of freedom for the survivors have been filled with joy, their ordeal is over, but we're getting more hints of how they're haunted by it. gina dejesus' mother said the family slept as a group with gina in the living room because she did not want to go to her room upstairs as she had for the previous nine years. >> the one thing she did say, she said, mom, i don't want to stay in a room. so i said, you don't have to anymore. so that's part of the process, part of her healing and knowing that she now can do what she

wants. >> she said she doesn't want to stay in a room. >> nancy ruiz also gave more insight on the ties between her family and the kidnapping suspect, ariel castro. gina's mother told abc news she knows ariel castro, came across him multiple times in the years after gina went missing. ruiz said he would ask her how she's doing, even as he allegedly kept her daughter as a sex slave. you'll hear more from ruiz's interview in just a few minutes. let's bring in susan candiotti, following this story. susan, tell us about the aggravated murder charges and how that relates to what michelle knight went through. >> reporter: hi, jake. the prosecutor is considering whether to file aggravated murder charges based on the statements that were said to have been made by michelle knight in part. cnn obtained that initial police report in which michelle knight, a victim in this case, tells a horrifying story about being

pregnant, she said, at least five times, raped by ariel castro. and each time she said she became pregnant, he starved her, she said, for at least two weeks, and even worse, he then punched her in the stomach several times with each pregnancy in order that she would miscarry. and it is on that basis that the prosecutor is apparently considering whether to file aggravated murder charges. and, of course, jake, it could be a difficult charge to prove, only because they don't have forensic evidence, of course, after such a long period of time. on the other hand they do have very strong eyewitness testimony from michelle knight herself as well as possibly the two other young women in this case. so, that's what's being discussed. that's what's being considered. jake? >> and, susan, attorney general of ohio, mike dewine, earlier today, indicated that the father of amanda berry's child,

according to dna, is ariel castro. has the fbi linked him to any other cases? >> reporter: well, not as yet. but from what we understand, the attorney general in ohio mike dewine is telling us they're still comparing dna taken from ariel castro and comparing it with the entire national database of dna to see whether he can be linked to any other unsolved crimes. they already have checked him against unsolved cases, open cases in ohio. but they haven't found any links there, jake. >> susan candiotti, thank you so much. i want to go to another location in cleveland, where brooke baldwin is there. and her satellite seems to be working. brooke, can you hear me? i'll hand the show over to you if you can hear me. >> hey, jake. i've got you. yeah. what happens when live tv happens and in a storm blows through here in cleveland. i'm here. good to see all of you. i'm brooke baldwin in cleveland.

let me pick up where you left off, talking about the daughter of the man accused of enslaving three women for nearly a decade in this home on seymour avenue. she says his oddities over the years now make sense. her name is angie gregg. she says she now understands why her father, ariel castro, would never, ever want to leave cleveland, to leave this home here, for longer than a day to see her or her kids when they lived out of state. this is just one of so many revelations from gregg and this incredibly compelling interview. she talked exclusively with cnn's lori siegel. >> my husband and i are in complete disbelief that the friendly, caring, doting man i knew as my daddy was in fact the most evil, vile, demonic criminal that i have met or heard of over the past ten years. >> reporter: this is part of a letter that angie gregg wrote after learning her father was

allegedly behind the brutal kidnappings in cleveland, ohio. now she's speaking out. >> and to go to the visuals, to see the girls and the footage of their parents' pleas for their return, to rape, starve and beat innocent human beings, i'm disgusted. >> reporter: you've learned your father wasn't the guy you thought he was. what is that like? >> it is like a horror movie. it is like watching a bad movie. >> reporter: only you're in it. >> only we're in it. we're the main characters and i never suspected anything was going on, but the more i sit and dwell on it, i think of things that make a whole lot of sense now. >> reporter: you look back and say, okay, you can piece together your -- you're beginning to piece together a puzzle. where were the signs? >> he never wanted to leave the house more than a day at a time. he was adamant in the fact that he wanted to leave home early

morning and he had to be back by evening. >> reporter: were there certain areas in the home that were just off limits? >> ever since my mom lived in that house, the basement was always kept locked. i've never been upstairs in the house and i never had reason to be. i asked him if i could see my room for old time's sake, and he says, oh, honey, there's so much junk up there, you don't want to go up there. >> reporter: when you think about, you know, what might have been, what was behind those doors, how do you -- how do you cope with that? >> it all makes sense now. now i know. it's hard. but i have -- i have no sympathy for the man. i have no sympathy. he was just another -- another person who's lied and deceived and manipulated people and i could never forgive him. i could never forgive him. if you would have asked me this last week, i would have told you he's the best dad and the best

grandpa. >> reporter: one thing she did suspect is that her father might have had another child, a child we now know is her half sister, conceived with one of the women he allegedly held captive. >> he showed me a picture that was in his cell phone, randomly, and he said, look at this cute little girl. it was a face shot. and i said, she's cute who is that? you know. and he said, this is my girlfriend's child. and i said, dad, that girl looks like emily. emily is my younger sister. and said, no, that's not my child. that's my girlfriend's child by somebody else. >> reporter: angie says she was always close with her father, but says she witnessed aabuse in their home. >> he was pretty jealous, he was always saying my mom was, you know, messing with certain neighbors, things like that, and i've seen -- i've seen him

basically stomp on her like she was a man, like he's beat her pretty bad several times. >> reporter: her mother passed away from cancer-related complications in 2012. >> i've lost my mother. i've lost a father. but i don't -- i don't cry for him. >> reporter: if you had a message for him what would it be? >> all this time, why? why? i don't even know what to say. why after all this time? why did you do it in the first place? why did you take those girls and why did you never leave? and why did you never -- why did he never feel guilty enough to let them go. >> reporter: what message do you have for the women and their families? >> i feel so much sorrow that they had to endure this. i'm glad that you're back home with your family, finally, because they never stop thinking about you. they never stopped -- they never

forgot you. you know, right now, these girls need to heal. >> reporter: do you feel that you're going to need to heal too? >> i'll be fine. i wasn't submitted to the horror that they were. >> reporter: in a day, you lost the man that raised you. that must be hard. >> nothing but a memory anymore. he can never be daddy again. >> lori siegel joins me now. first, just in cases like these, i know that so many reporters try to talk to these family members and so it was you who she chose to talk to. did she explain the moment that she found out that it was her father who was accused of doing these horrible things to these women? >> she did. a compelling story. she said she got this call and someone said, these girls have been freed and everyone in this community, they wanted to know -- they had been waiting for this call for ages and she got another call and they said, hey, your father's block there is tape on it, it is blocked off. it happened there.

and she was -- she was thinking, i wonder who it could have been. she got 20 calls, her husband, he said, your father's place is taped off. she said, i just wanted to melt to the floor, i wanted to die. her whole reality shifted in that moment. >> i want to take you back to -- there are so many parts of this interview where you just think wow and it was specifically where the -- to think the three women and a child lived in this home and that he would turn the music up loud when this daughter would come over who knows how many visitors he had over the course of the decade, and who knows what he told these young women when he would have visitors, but that never really struck her as odd. >> she was closer than -- closer than some of the other sisters and she was at this home quite a bit. she said, sometimes he would take a long time to come to the door and he would put the music up, and the basement was always locked but didn't put together the pieces until she heard -- >> why would she? >> why would you. it is the idea that it is horrific this is horrific, but for her to sayhad no idea

this was happening in the home. she had no idea of the terror happening in the street and in the home she's been in so often. >> great reporting. great interview, thank you so much. we'll share a little bit more of laurie's interview throughout the course of the next two hours here. coming up, another story we're following on cnn, a new twist in the investigation of that deadly explosion from just a couple of weeks ago at that texas fertilizer plant in west, texas. it is now a criminal probe. but, listen to this, this news comes today as police are arresting a first responder in the area. could there be a link? we'll look into it coming up. welwhere new york state is... investing one billion dollars to attract and grow business. where companies like geico are investing in technology & finance. welcome to the state where cutting taxes for business... is our business. welcome to the new buffalo. welcome to the new buffalo.

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♪ every day, more photos are taken with the iphone than any other camera.

welcome back here live to cleveland for a special cnn coverage of the kidnapping investigation here. i'm brooke baldwin. but first, a new twist in a story we have been following for you for weeks. last month's deadly blast at this texas fertilizer plant is now being investigated as a possible crime. the criminal investigation comes after four other potential causes for that massive explosion, they were ruled out. you remember the story, 14 people were killed, many of them

first responders themselves. you see the video of the aftermath, home after home after home obliterated when the blast rocked the small town of west, texas. and many of those, as i mentioned, who died, they were volunteer firefighters. and i want to bring in elina machado for more on this investigation. why is the blast being investigated as a possible crime? >> that's a question we have been asking all afternoon. but so far authorities remain tight lipped. the launch of this criminal probe was announced a few hours ago. earlier this week investigators said they had ruled out four potential causes including weather and natural causes. now, it has been more than three weeks since the explosion rocked west, texas, killing more than a dozen people. a fire broke out at the plant about 20 minutes before the blast and most of the people who died were first responders who had rushed to the scene because of that fire. now, we want to share with you a

statement we got from the director of the texas department of public safety. it says in part, this disaster has severely impacted the community of west. and we want to ensure that no stone goes unturned and that all the facts related to this incident are uncovered. brooke? >> so, alina, we have learned that a volunteer first responder was arrested in the wee hours this morning, 2:40 a.m. central time. do you know why this person was taken into custody and if this arrest is at all linked to that criminal investigation you talk about? >> the man you're referring to is bryce reed, he was arrested for possession of a destructive device and is in custody of the u.s. marshals. however, it is worth noting that authorities are not linking this arrest to the criminal probe of the plant explosion. brooke? >> alina, we'll keep following up with you on the investigation here, appreciate your reporting on west, texas. breaking news on cnn right now, a fast moving story is happening

in missouri as authorities are searching for three prisoners who escaped from the lansing correctional facility in kansas. our affiliate kctv reports officers have now surrounded a home and believe the men are inside. take a good look at this. these are the men. authorities say they are armed, they range in age from 31 to 57. obviously we're making calls on this and we're digging on what is happening here in kansas. as soon as we get more information, we'll pass it on to you. we have learned today the body of boston bombing suspect tamerlan tsarnaev is buried in a muslim cemetery in virginia. police had kept that information very, very quiet after tsarnaev's body was moved out of worcester, massachusetts. the city we have been reporting for weeks has struggled to find someone to offer land to bury tsarnaev. several cemeteries as you know said no, they refused.

but after a week long search, police say a virginia woman, very quietly, coordinated efforts to resolve the problem. back here in cleveland, we will talk with a woman who reported on gina dejesus' missing persons case, back since 2004. she's basically become a family member now. an unofficial family member of the dejesus family. we spoke with her yesterday. she just sat down with gina after she returned home. >> it was -- it was unbelievable. my hands were sweating because there is someone i never imagined would come back to us. [ man ] on december 17, 1903, the wright brothers became the first in flight. [ goodall ] i think the most amazing thing is how like us these chimpanzees are. [ laughing ] [ woman ] can you hear me? and you hear your voice? oh, it's exciting! [ man ] touchdown confirmed. we're safe on mars. [ cheers and applause ]

♪ hi. [ baby fussing ] ♪

welcome back to our live coverage here in cleveland. i'm brooke baldwin. and, you know, perhaps the most complicated part of this unfolding story right here in ohio is that 6-year-old girl. seen here, after escaping from this home behind me on seymour avenue, she escaped, as you know, with her mother and now i

can tell you the dna tests have in fact confirmed that amanda berry gave birth to ariel castro's baby. the ohio attorney general's office says that the tests show the man accused of kidnapping her and raping her is the father of her child. another of castro's alleged victims, michelle knight, has just been released from the hospital. that's positive news to report to you this friday. she's thankful to everyone for their support, but as all the families are, they are asking for her privacy. meantime, we're learning that knight was removed from a federal missing persons database years ago. why? because police could not confirm with her family or friends that she was still missing and today this statement from the hospital. quote, michelle knight is in good spirits and would like the community to know that she is extremely grateful for the outpouring of flowers and gifts. and then there is gina dejesus. after nearly a decade locked

away, she wants the world to know that she is not quite ready to face it yet. gina is back home with her family, they have actually put up a tarp in the backyard of their home, just so gina can enjoy the sun on her face, while avoiding the prying eyes of the news media and the helicopters swirling up above. they want their privacy. understandably so. the world may have only seen her thumb. look at this picture. i love this. a close friend of the dejesus family has seen gina, did sit down with gina yesterday and she is lydia esparra, a family friend, a journalist here at woio in cleveland. thank you for coming back and talking to me. >> you're welcome, brooke. >> i enjoyed our conversation so much yesterday. let me pick up with -- so you sat down with gina, the revelati revelations, a lot of people were talking about she lost her ability to communicate with her mother and her mother talking in spanish, the fact she had a missing person flyer in the basement which i want to get to, but you talked to her father this morning, how is she doing?

>> she's doing great. first of all, he said she had a rough night because i think day one, you have jubilation. day two, it is kind of -- you're absorbing everything around you. she was tired. i think it was too much for her. he said she had a really good night's sleep and she woke up and she's fine. and the neat thing about this family is they get it. they get it. >> how do you mean? >> it is not like, my daughter's back and our life continues. they know she left as a 14-year-old and she's a woman, she's 23. and when she says i need my space, they give her her space. if she needs time to herself, they get it. you mentioned that blue tarp, they put that up so she can come in and out as she pleases. so it was for privacy too, but she's been locked up for nine years. so when i was there yesterday, she never went outside, she stayed inside, but she at least has the ability to come in and out as she pleases. >> how does she feel about that freedom, about being able to go

outside? >> i didn't talk to her much about that, about the freedom of going outside. it was, like i was a regular person coming into the house because she knows i'm friends of the family. i said hi to the parents and i'm like, where's gina? she's in the house, lydia. i go, hi, gina. she goes, hi, lydia, i saw you on tv. >> she, gina, having been in this home, held as a prisoner, recognized you because she was allowed to watch television of her missing person reports and saw you covering her story from this home. >> i'm not quite sure if it was me. i know amanda was watching it, but her parents told me about me and she looked at videos of me and so now she seems familiar. it was different from the first day to the second and i was telling felix, i'm like, she smiles at me today. he starts laughing. and it was -- i just walked in, hi, gina, we talked, gave her the "people" magazine, walked out, hung with the family for a little bit, like nothing. it was awesome.

good to see her like that. >> good. show me what you've brought. i know you have been covering this story for nine years. you had mementos of gina on your desk. >> i have momentos. i talked to gina about this. i don't know which camera you want me to take. they used to pass out these mementos at the vigil. i would keep them on my desk. so that's what the composite of her looks like. she looks nothing like that. her hair is shorter, she's thinner. now, interesting, this is the composite of the suspect. >> look at that. anybody can make up their own mind whether or not it looks like him or not. here is another one. this one i collected also. and so interesting, people would stop by my desk and say who didn't know the story who is that? that's gina. she's probably dead, you should throw that away. i'm, like, i'm not throwing it away. i didn't. >> you never threw it away. you kept all these missing person flyers for -- here is amanda berry, and then -- >> this is like another one that was missing and i kept it just in case someone would show up. this is the interesting one. because gina's parents are such

amazing people. they put out these flyers, that's gina, right there. looks nothing like that again, nothing. and then here is amanda, and you've seen pictures of amanda, doesn't look like it. they felt so responsible for amanda as well as gina. they're just so amazing, amazing that they consider these other two girls part of their family. >> do you know how gina -- did the father, felix, sa to you this morning how she's spending her time? >> he didn't say how she's spending her time, but i can see how she's spending her time. she's just relaxing with her family. very interesting because her brother ricky is there and her sister and the two kids, mayra and the two girls. it is like they were never apart. everybody is so relaxed. it is not an awkward situation. it is very comfortable, very loving, very warm, very understanding. and then she'll say things to mayra, mayra, remember when i did this, this, this. she's like, oh, yeah, but that's over now. and so it is a real cool thing to see.

>> wonderful. and her siblings, i'm sure, overjoyed. >> they're so happy. >> and mother's day, you tell me her mother hasn't celebrated mother's day in nine years. >> i asked felix this morning, what are you doing for mother's day what are you getting nancy? he's like, i don't know. i'm like, what do you mean, you don't know? he said i haven't given her anything in nine years. i started crying. felix, i'm such a baby, i started crying on the phone. he's, like, but this year is going to be different. this year is going to be different. >> we have some sound. this is sound from gina's mom, nancy. take a listen. >> you would see him and he would say how are you doing? >> yes. >> like nothing was wrong? >> yes. >> that's chilling. >> it is. >> all the while he had your daughter. >> yes. you know how many times i've been through those streets.

i pass by that street. i have a sister who is two blocks and a half away from there. >> wow. so the mother speaking out, and let me just ask you this, this is my final question, having been here for a couple of days, there is a lot of criticism toward cleveland police, they hadn't followed up on leads, there were phone calls that were made. they said they checked the databases, haven't received calls. has the family responded about that at all? >> we talked about that in past when i covered the stories. initially when the story broke, you always think somebody ran away, so they assumed gina ran away on her own. but it was the family that had kept telling the police, no, no, no. now, as i was doing my own investigation, they have followed up on different leads. every time there was a dig going on, they followed up. if they saw a sighting, they followed up. so initially maybe it was a little slow to the uptake, but then nancy was so persistent,

nancy and felix, there was no way, no way the fbi or cleveland would forget. she was calling the fbi on a daily basis. so i can't really respond to that from my observation. slow in the beginning, and nancy kept it alive. >> just curious if the family addressed it. lydia esparra, thank you so much. we wish, of course, the dejesus family very well in these exciting days moving forward and happy mom's day too, to mrs. dejesus. coming up, she was kidnapped in 1995 and rescued and she returned to her old life, she began feeling guilty. why this woman says people made her feel like it was her fault she remained hostage. her advice to the three women who were just rescued from this house of horrors here on seymour avenue. woman: everyone in the nicu --

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welcome back to cleveland. i'm brooke baldwin. amanda berry, gina dejesus and michelle knight all face a long and potentially difficult readjustment after many, many years of brutal captivity here in this home on seymour avenue. and jessyca mullenberg christianson knows something about that. she was only 13 years of age when she was abducted, back in 1995, and she was held captive and sexually assaulted for three months by a man she knew and trusted. she says people should be careful not to judge how much a victim can do about their situation. >> unless they're in that situation, you know, they don't know what it's like to be tied up, not being able to call your family or friends. oliver changed the numbers on the phone so i couldn't call. i was stabbed before i was kidnapped so i was afraid he was going to kill me. and on the airport, he had a knife to my back, so i couldn't just scream. >> as for the difficult road

ahead for these three young women here in cleveland, here is jessyca's advice. >> just take it one day at a time. don't get too overwhelmed. they are the heroes. they made it through the whole ordeal of ten years. that's a very long time, you know? and that's a lot to be said about how strong and courageous they are, and, you know, just try to stick to a routine and know that your family and friends and community are there to support you. >> now 27, jessyca was abducted by a man who had been her riding coach and promised to help her get published. she required surgery after the rescue because of the severe beatings she received while in captivity. now this, ariel castro's daughter called him loving and kind, a great grandfather. now she says he's dead to her. in this exclusive interview, laurie segall speaks with angie gregg. the two scoured through family photos that take on a much

darker meaning now that this father, grandfather, has been arrested for allegedly enslaving three women and a child. >> never saw a dark side. he adored me and the kids. >> you can see in this photo, he adores your son. is it tough looking at this photo now knowing what was also happening? >> it is. it is. because i don't know how somebody so loving can be a demon at the flick of a switch. >> an incredible interview conducted by laurie segall here in cleveland. stay tuned. because we'll share much more of this conversation that laurie had with the daughter of ariel castro. that's coming up next hour. coming up next, though, the stunning images, 16 days, 16 after this factory collapsed, a woman here pulled from the rubble alive. how did she survive? we'll take you there. i am an american success story.

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back here to our special coverage in cleveland. we'll return to this investigation here on this friday in just a moment. but first, this is a stunning story here, one of the world's largest cities ground to a halt today to witness a glimmer of hope in the midst of absolute disaster. i want to take you to bangladesh and workers here pulling bodies from the wreckage of this building. they either saw or heard movement and you see -- focus on the middle of the screen here. an hour later, they gingerly lifted this seamstress from beneath some heavy slab of rock. here they are, carrying her away. she is alive. she is apparently well after surviving 16 days trapped in that rubble. 16 days since that rickety

nine-story sweatshop collapsed, killing more than 1,000 workers. the woman's name is reshma and britain's guardian newspaper is reporting that she was on the second floor when the building fell shortly after the workday had begun. look at that face. a report from the scene said that the woman had no discernible injuries, may have been breathing through a pipe, so with me now, from new delhi is sunima udis. tell me anything you know about this woman. this story is amazing, her condition, the rescue, 16 days later. >> reporter: that's right, brooke. it really is an amazing story after days and days of just pulling out dead, decomposed bodies, rescue workers were not expecting to find anyone alive. again, it has been -- this is the 17th day. for the past ten days, no one has been pulled alive. as they were going through the second floor, one of the lower

floors, going through the rubble, they heard a feint cry for help, a woman saying i'm alive, i'm alive, please rescue me. and of course we have been seeing the amazing pictures of them for an hour as they were trying to pull her out of that -- from that rubble and put her in an ambulance and take her to a nearby hospital. now, of course, as you've been saying, inside that hospital, she's been in a stable condition, she's even been talking to reporters there, talking about how she survived those past 16 days. >> translator: when i was cutting iron rods, suddenly i found a silver colored stick just moving from a hole. and i looked through and i saw someone calling. please, save me. instantly i called the army and firefighters and said, please, look, i heard a sound. then they saw her and confirmed that there was a woman. later, they started working and rescued her and sent her to the hospital.

>> reporter: that's, of course, the rescue worker talking about how he first heard her, but when she was in the hospital, she also spoke to reporters then. she said she did not have anything to eat for the past 16 days. she only had two bottles of water with her. and for the last two days she didn't even have a drop of water. she used the stick to show the rescue workers she was alive. brooke? >> just to think that she is speaking after 16 days, stuck there, speaking to reporters, it is an incredible story, but for every story such as this one, i know that there are still many bodies, i imagine, being pulled from this wreckage site. >> reporter: that's right. in fact, just today, more than 100 bodies were pulled from this building collapse site. so the death toll has now gone up to more than a thousand victims, 1,039 to be exact. more than 2,400 people pulled out alive, of course, in the past two weeks or so.

and, of course, many still remain unaccounted for. the government has also released -- they have just been inspecting some of the factories there, just closed down about two dozen factories already, garment factories, so the government is also acting. and they also arrested the building owner and several of the factory owners. >> thank you from new delhi. coming up next hour, we'll talk with dr. sanjay gupta about exactly how someone can survive 16 days. 16 days. it is incredible. we'll talk to sanjay next hour. back here in cleveland, though, one question people are asking, could police have done more for these three kidnapped girls? >> they didn't seem to give any real true desire to the case. >> that man says he saw gina dejesus the very day she was an du abducted in cleveland, but he

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who sees the whole picture, turn to us. wells fargo advisors. tide vivid y el boost. traducele. she only uses tide vivid detergent plus boost for her whites. y me deja los blancos viendose como nuevos, lavado tras lavado. that part's true. ese es mi tide, cual es el tuyo? what if -- that what if question is being asked a lot now in cleveland because of possible missed opportunities to catch the kidnapper of three women years ago. in fact, one man says he saw gina dejesus, 14-year-old gina dejesus, on the day she

disappeared. he says the police didn't take him seriously. he talked to our own gary tuchman about the spot where he says that abduction happened. >> reporter: eric poindexter believes he could have helped cleveland police end this kidnapping nightmare nine years ago. >> my brother and i were driving down the street the day that gina dejesus was abducted. >> reporter: the street is west 105th, a couple of blocks away from the school gina was walking home from the day she was kidnapped. eric and his brother were driving when a car came up on their left in the turning lane. you saw a girl walking down the sidewalk on that side of the street. >> yeah, right over there, by the corner, by that brick building, yep. >> reporter: what did you see the driver do after that? >> once we crossed fidelity here, this intersection, he swerved in front of us, almost hitting us, to get into the -- where the parking lane is. and as soon as we passed him up, he did a u-turn, didn't care if anybody was coming the other way, hit a u-turn, right in front of -- right in front where the little girl was walking.

>> reporter: this week's police report about the case, authorities reveal that gina has confirmed she was kidnapped in west 105th street. after eric and his brother saw the car make a u-turn and head towards the girl, they also made a u-turn. angry they almost got hit and concerned about the girl. but when they got to the spot where they had seen the girl, they no longer did. she was gone. it wasn't long before reports surfaced about a missing girl, gina dejesus. so eric and his brother say they immediately called the police to tell them what they saw. she was wearing tight black pants and puffy gray jacket. >> reporter: what was the description after she went missing. >> a little girl, puerto rican girl with long curly black hair wearing black pants, tight black pants and gray puffy jacket. >> reporter: same description? >> same description. >> reporter: eric said the authorities never seemed to think their information was credible. >> seemed like they was looking at us like we were looking for attention or something like that. >> reporter: the police? >> yes. they didn't seem to give any real true desire to the case you know what i'm saying?

what we was telling them. they thought we were bloking smoke up the smoke up their butts or something. >> reporter: why do you think that is? >> i don't know. >> reporter: that's the face they say they saw behind the wheel that day. in 2004, after castro who was a school bus driver had allegedly kidnapped two girls and was about to kidnap gina dejesus, he left a child on his bus, as he headed into the bus depot. ski i asked police why he wasn't more aggressively questioned about the incident. >> he was interviewed extensively, relative to this complaint that we had. he was not a suspect in any other complaint. this was a -- he was a bus driver who inadvertently, so he says, leave the kid on a bus, went in for a lunch break, came back and then found the young man. >> reporter: castro was never prosecuted for tha ed for that .

he was accused of everything from breaking her nose twice to dislocating her shoulders. but the case was ultimately dismissed because of numerous delays caused by castro not showing up and attorneys for both sides not showing up. police strongly defend their work in this case and say they have no records of any recent calls pertaining to ariel castro. they also tell us they have not been able to confirm if they have records of talking to eric poindexter and his brother back when the kidnapping happened. >> i now believe 100% of my heart he was there to abduct that little girl. i believe that little girl was gina dejesus. >> reporter: police say they will continue to investigate if other calls have been made over the years. gary tuchman, cnn, cleveland. >> breaking news for you now here on cnn. the irs apparently targeting the tea party. that's next.

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welcome back here. we're live in cleveland, covering the rescue, the recovery of these three women held in captivity in that home for nearly a decade. once again, as we have been here all week, you can see the activity behind me, the fbi back here on seymour avenue. so we'll have the latest on the investigation in just a moment. but, first, some other items in

the news today beginning with los angeles. the michael jackson wrongful death lawsuit reveals new details about jackson's behave shortly after he died. the woman who served as michael jackson's makeup artist for some 27 years testified that he was talking to himself and shivering. karen fay said when she looked at the tour schedule, she didn't believe jackson could pull it off. when she voiced her concerns to the show director, quote, he kind of fluffed it off. that's what she says. concert promoter aeg live is being sued by jackson's family over his death. and one world trade center is now the tallest building in the western hemisphere. look at this. this is amazing. a short time ago, construction crews there finished bolting a 408 foot spire into place. the manhattan building is now 17,076 feet tall. get it. nod to the nation's independence. the spire will serve as a

broadcast antenna. coming up, we're learning that the irs is apparently targeting the tea party and the irs is responding. we'll get a live report from that -- from that for you in a couple of minutes. also here in cleveland, we will talk a little bit more about the investigation, some new nuggets coming out today after some young women were freed here on monday. new information today could he have someone -- could something have been happening more in this house? that's coming up. [ man ] on december 17, 1903,

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i'm brooke baldwin live here in cleveland, ohio, where right now we are learning more shocking details about what happened in that home, that white home behind me here on seymour avenue. we have now learned dna tests confirm amanda berry gave birth to ariel castro's baby. the ohio attorney general's office says the tests show that the man accused of kidnapping her and raping her is the father. castro's grown daughter is talk talking to cnn exclusively about the times she went into this home, unknowingly feet from these alleged victims. >> ever since my mom lived in that house, the basement was always kept locked. i've never been upstairs in the house and i i asked him if i could see my

room for old time's sake. he said, oh, honey, there's so much junk up there. you don't want to go up there. >> we know ariel castro is talking. a law enforcement source close to the investigation says he is confessing to some of the horrific crimes. the prosecutor says he's looking to seek the death penalty for aggravated murder for the alleged termination of michelle knight's five pregnancies, according to this police report he would starve her once he learned of the pregnancy and would beat her, thus aborting the -- aborting these fetuses. as for michelle, she has just been released from the hospital here in cleveland. so that is some wonderful news on this friday. also, cnn learned she was removed from a federal missing person's database years ago. why? because no one actually ever confirmed she was still missing. police say it was procedure to take her off the list. susan candiotti is here with me in cleveland. and susan has been following

this story. let's begin with -- we saw ariel castro yesterday facing the four kidnapping charges, the three rape charges, but now the possibility of the aggravated murder charges as it relates to michelle knight. >> that's right. you outlined it very nicely. according to michelle knight, we know from the police statement that we obtained, the police statement she gave to authorities that very first night, that she told authorities that she became pregnant five times but not only that, that each time ariel castro, she said, would starve her for at least two weeks, not give her anything to eat or drink, and then on top of that, would punch her in the stomach in order to prompt a miscarriage. and so the prosecutor says he's contemplating the aggravated murder charges, on the basis of taking the life of those fetuses. this could be a very controversial decision, thing to do, can he prove it, what

forensic evidence could he have all these years later? well, clearly nothing, probably, but he would have at the very minimum very strong eyewitness testimony should michelle knight take the stand and talk about what happened to her, not only that, the two other young women also could be witnesses to this. >> so to be clear, according to police reports, it was amanda berry, obviously we now know had this 6-year-old child fathered by ariel castro, the five miscarriages from michelle knight and we learned there was no pregnancy with gina dejesus, correct? >> she said she never got pregnant, that's right. >> what about ariel castro and the fbi? they're digging into his past and other investigations. might he be linked to other cases? >> it is possible. we know that according to the ohio attorney general, those dna tests they did show that he is not a match to any open cases in the state of ohio. >> he's not.

>> they're running a check. it is a massive database called cotus for short, that maintains dna from every unsolved crime for which they're given data, so they can take him, run it up against ariel castro's dna, and see if there is any other link elsewhere. >> we'll see. ultimately we'll find out. susan candiotti, thank you very much. and this man we keep talking about, the man who lived in this home, ariel castro, he is charged with turning this cleveland house into his own prison where these three women were allegedly held in ropes, and in chains, they were beaten and starved and raped. there are so many unanswered questions about what was going through his mind when he allegedly decided to kidnap these women. and enslave them for a decade. and how the victim survived this hell. stacy kyzer, psychotherapist, joins me from agoura hills,

california. and a former secret service agent live in new york. ladies, welcome to you. and, stacy, let me begin, there is something popping up, this syndrome, many people heard of it, stockholm syndrome, right, that applies to possibly the women in this case. and after ten years, what do you think it was that made amanda berry finally make a break for it? >> well, stockholm syndrome, so everyone knows, is that whole concept where people literally start to have feelings for their captor. sometimes they even fall in love with them. often times they feel sorry for them. and so it is entirely possible that that's what happened with these women. but based on what i'm hearing, what i actually believe is that these women actually were so abused that they were victimized and wounded and weak and afraid to come forward or to try and escape, and amanda berry finally found the courage, possibly, to save her daughter. >> thank goodness she did and

thank goodness for all the young women here in cleveland. we can't exactly crawl inside the mind of ariel castro, but someone, again, these are still allegations, but someone who could be capable of doing this to these women, i mean, how did they -- i don't know, rationalize it, justify it as okay and are able to continue on living a seemingly normal existence to the outside world? >> people who commit these sort of crimes, they exhibit certain criteria. one of the criteria they do exhibit is they rationalize what they do. they do not take responsibility. it is not their fault. they also exhibit signs of this grandiose sense of self-worth, great con artists and manipulate irs, sometimes they have short marital relationships, you'll see that in their background, they lack empathy, so this is common of someone who would fall under this umbrella of this time of sadistic or psychopathic

behavior. >> you say they lack empathy. also hearing from the daughters of castro, they say he was a great grandfather to their own children. so it is just like it is hard to connect the dots and, stacy, you know, i know we have reports that castro was violent toward his ex-wife, incredibly violent. but, again, to his children, apparently, not. we also hear he allowed amanda berry to have a child, but not in the according to police five times michelle knight was pregnant. i don't know if this was preferential treatment. how do you read into that? >> well, a lot of times psychopaths have the ability to literally compartmentalize and so it is possible that he developed this secret private world that he viewed was his sort of sick escape with these three women, and that with this family he was actually able to be a seemingly normal and regular person, however i wouldn't say that because not only are we hearing reports of the domestic violence issues, but people are saying that he was getting weird, he was being creepy, he was boarding up the

windows and a lot of people are trying to stay away. to me, there may have been warning signs with the family members that they really didn't want to see. >> let me be clear, though, you hear his windows were boarded up and that sounds shady. almost -- the two homes next to his, his home, windows were also boarded up. so it is not necessarily a telltale sign when you get here. we talked earlier this week about only to be a fly on the wall inside this interrogation room with ariel castro. we know he's talking enough, it led fbi back to this home with shovels, that's what police said earlier this week. here we are, now, friday, been several days, what do you think investigators were going on questioning right now? >> i think a lot of it now is going to be understanding why he did what he did, how he did it, and getting all that information, because that makes us better for other cases like this in the future. but, again, a lot of information they're gathering, you have to be careful with an individual like this, he's the psychopathic liar, you know.

he spent years just lying about his life and who he is. he will lie in that interview room. the most important information law enforcement will get will be through the interviews of the young women, from assessing the criminal environment, doing crime scene investigation of this household. that's where you get the key information and understanding his behavior. >> yeah. they are getting information from these young women, i was reading, you know,m pe were talking, as quickly as getting in that ambulance and heading to the hospital on monday. stacy kyzer, thank you so much. please, watch tonight, anderson cooper is hosting this town hall meeting on missing people. do not miss this. it is called vanished. anderson cooper 360 special tonight, 8:00 eastern, right here on cnn. breaking news, in case you're just now joining me on this friday, we learned the white house is now delaying its daily briefing, continuously,

today. we are expecting jay carney, the white house spokesperson, to field new questions about this benghazi investigation. but add another headache into the mix here, because the irs apparently targeted the tea party. erin mcpike joins me now from washington. and, erin, the irs and the tea party, what do you know? >> well, brooke, the irs admitted today that it did make mistakes when handling applications from the slew of conservative groups seeking tax exempt status. and so immediately republicans on capitol hill today began calling for an investigation. the problem was that over the last few years, some tea party groups were complaining that they were getting excessive delays and really heavy questioning from the irs, that the irs went to great lengths today to say that even though they made mistakes initially, those mistakes were in no way due to any sort of political or partisan rational. and, of course, the irs said it already fixed the problem, but that wasn't enough for

republicans at all. the senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, is already calling for a white house review. and in the house, the republican who runs the oversight and government reform committee, darrell issa, issued a joint statement with another conservative member, jim jordan, and that statement reads, the fact that americans were targeted by the irs because of their political beliefs is unconscionab unconscionable. the committee will aggressively follow up on the report and hold responsible officials accountable for this political retaliation. now, brooke, i also just got an e-mail from one of my republican sources who said that it is almost like a right wing spoof to think the obama administration was targeting tea party groups through the irs. he said it is embarrassing for them and terrible timing with the benghazi hearing this week. of course, we haven't seen any response from the white house just yet. but i'm sure we'll see plenty of questions at today's press briefing, brooke. >> we're waiting for it, in a matter of minutes, to happen.

we'll wait for the questions to be thrown at jay corn carney a how he responds to questions of benghazi and the irs and the tea party. erin mcpike, keep us posted. thank you so much. and another breaking story this hour. busy news day on this friday. major development in that devastating fire and explosion at that fertilizer plant in the town of west, texas. cnn has now learned that texas rangers have opened a criminal investigation into this blast. it is not quite known what prompted the move. but in another -- but so far on a related development, a first responder on that very explosion was taken into federal custody overnight. i want to bring in gary tuchman. gary, i know you have been following this story, you were in west, texas, when this happened. what more can you tell me? >> reporter: this, brooke, is a very weird and complex story. but we start by telling you this, bryce reed, the man who has been arrested for possessing

a destructive device, a pipe bomb according to authorities, is somebody that we know. we got to the scene in west texas the day afterwards, started talking with bryce reed right away. and he told us this, this is very notable. he told us there is more to the explosion than meets the eye. so we stayed in touch with him. bryce reed was actually a guest on anderson cooper 360, my colleague anderson interviewed him and we spent some time talking to him. it is very important to note this, authorities are saying they will not speculate on whether there is a connection between this arrest and the explosion at the plant, but they are not ruling it out. so that, itself, is noteworthy. of course, as you mentioned, the texas department of public safety announced this very same day that it is opening up a criminal investigation with the texas rangers, and with the county sheriff's office. is that just a coincidence or is there more to it? we don't know. maybe they don't know at this point. but what we're being told is that bryce reed had a pipe bomb according to authorities and gave it to someone else to hold. why did he have a pipe bomb?

we have absolutely no idea. we do know that bryce reed told us that his brother was killed -- he was one of the 12 emergency responders killed, 15 people were killed altogether, that his brother was one of the 12 people killed. it is notable that cyrus reed was one of the dead. the same last name as bryce reed but they we think they aren't brothers, we think they're good friends despite the fact they have the same last name. this is a weird, complex and upsetting story, we should note we do know this bryce reed, we have talked with him, and he's now in custody. if ultimately found guilty of these particular charges and in federal court today, he faces the possibility of up to ten years in prison and a $250,000 fine. but we must emphasize no connection as of now to the blast to that very terrible tragedy 3 1/2 weeks ago in the little town of west, texas. brooke? >> just the fact that he was saying to you all that that -- explosion than meets the eye, a lot of questions, as you say, just plain weird. gary tuchman, thank you.

we look for your reporting on the story out of west. on cnn, dr. sanjay gupta will join me live to talk about how this woman trapped in rubble for 16 days somehow got out alive. we'll share those incredible moments with you. also coming up next, back here, special coverage of the kidnappings and now the investigation in cleveland, the prosecutor in this case against ariel castro, he's going all in. we'll debate possible murder charges against him in our special coverage. stay right here. if there was a pill

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...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. back here in cleveland, on this friday, for a special live coverage, at his arraignment, ariel castro heard the seven, count them, seven counts against him. four kidnapping charges, three for rape, but the county prosecutor says there will be more. he's referring to victim michelle knight, the first of the three to be snatched up the city streets, alleging that michelle knight allegedly said that castro ended at least five of her pregnancies by starving her and then punching her in the stomach. >> all these attempted murders and each act of aggravated murder he committed by terminating pregnancies that the

offender perpetuated against the hostages during this decade long ordeal, the law of ohio calls for the death penalty for those most depraved criminals who commit aggravated murder during the course of a kidnapping. >> we go to two legal minds to just talk through a little bit of this. criminal defense attorney monica lindh strom in phoenix and danny savales in philadelphia. danny, to you first. it sounds tough, since i know so far evidence just bits and pieces of what we're learning about michelle knight's statement here to police, and if she didn't know, she was held here at this home, if she didn't know exactly how far along she was when she miscarried, i'm thinking that could make a pretty big difference here. >> yeah. first we immediate to talk about the different charges. when it comes to the rape and the kidnapping, those are comparatively going to be easier charges to make. those can be sustained just on the testimony of these victims. but now we move on to this aggravated murder that they're going to -- that the prosecution

may seek. then the case, and i know people don't want to hear this, it is going to be difficult to establish this. why? there are several problems. first, there may be a constitutional issue. it may affect roe v. wade. it may be an issue for the supreme court whether causing the death of an unborn fetus is potentially criminal. secondly, you're going to have evidence problems we discussed before. it is going to be 100% testimonial. there is zero doctor's visits, zero documentary evidence. there is also going to be the issue of intent. will they be able to prove that when he did these horrific things, he did so purposefully and with the intent to cause that unlawful abortion. ironically, as opposed to say the jodi arias case, there are two ways to get to first degree murder in this case, or aggravated murder, jodi arias, premeditation, here we may see felony murder. because these killings were committed in the commission of crimes like kidnapping, or rape, that could qualify for aggravated murder.

i predict we may see the prosecution elect and proceed under that theory. in this case, it may be easier to prove. however, they have to get over the elements of proving that the killing was caused and that it was -- that there was a pregnancy. >> monica, let me have you weigh in and hearing what danny is saying and his point about proving intent. how could one prove intent from these ten years in this home? >> well, we were talking about the termination of the pregnancies. i don't think it will be very difficult to prove the intent part of it because the intent is his mental state. what was he thinking, what -- and what did he want to do. and you see that from his actions. and so the women will be able to testify that they saw him beating her or hitting her after she told him that she thought she was pregnant, for example, or, you know, whatever other evidence that they gave to him to show that she was pregnant.

so that's not going to be the difficult part. but he's absolutely right, it is going to be hard to determine when these pregnancies occurred, if they occurred, how far along were they, was it a false/positive. those kind of issues. and it happened so long ago on some of these that there is just no evidence for it. he's right when he's talking about the felony murder. and i think something to remember is although we have just a handful of charges right now, we're going to see more and more and more charges coming down the pipelines as more and more evidence is recovered in this case. >> you're exactly right. i've been hear in cleveland, i think just about five days and every day the fbi has been here with shovels and cameras and dogs. we'll have to see what evidence comes out as you pointed out and police said, yes, more charges can come against this man. thank you so much to both of you. coming up here next, on cnn, an unbelievable story of survival. this woman is pulled out of the rubble. in bangladesh, after this building collapsed 16 days

prior. she makes it out alive. we'll talk to sanjay gupta, explaining how someone can survive an ordeal like this. we went out and asked people a simple question:

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welcome back. i'm brooke baldwin. back to our special coverage of the investigation into the kidnappings in cleveland in a moment. but i want to switch gears and talk about this amazing story, one of the world's largest cities ground to a halt today to witness this glimmer of hope in the thick of this disaster. this is in daka, bangladesh. workers are pulling body after body from the wreckage, all the rubble here of this building, when all of a sudden, someone must have seen something, heard something, one hour later, they gingerly lifted this seamstress from beneath a concrete slab. she had survived there 16 days. 16 days since this rickety nine-story factory collapsed, killing more than 1,000 workers. the woman's name is rashema and britain's guardian newspaper is reporting she was on the second floor when the building toppled to the ground, back on april

24th. shortly after the workday had actually begun. and a report from the scene indicated the woman not only made it out, she had no discernible injuries. she's believed to have been breathing through some sort of pipe. so joining me now is cnn's dr. sanjay gupta, our chief medical correspondent. and, sanjay, just think, 16 days, how does a woman survive that long? >> it is incredible. every time you hear a story like this, obviously, it gives you a little bit of goosebumps like it is giving you as well, brooke. she had air. the basic supply here, some sort of air pocket, some access to air, obviously. also, hearing reports she was found in a pool of water. those are going to be the most basic necessities. you can't live more than a few days without water. as far as food goes, we're not sure what she had access to, but this no discernible injuries you mentioned, brooke, also very important. no broken bones, no compressed limbs, no big gashes, that would

have made it much harder for her to survive if for no other reason than the energy to heal those wounds simply may have impacted her overall survival. so in many ways it is -- she got lucky, she was in an area where she probably had at least access to some of the basic things, and it led -- it impacted her survival. also 19 years old. youth plays a role here. but, again, as you mentioned, it is just a stunning and inspirational story. >> i know you were, sanjay, in haiti, right after that fatal earthquake. and i remember the video of all of these people, some of whom didn't make it, others, you mentioned goosebumps, were pulled out alive from the rubble. it is similar. and somehow they survive. >> yeah, you know. that's the first thing that came to my mind is, well, we were in haiti, we met a man named evan muncie, close to 30 days after the earthquake, after the building that he was in, which was a rice plant, came tumbling

to the ground, he was rescued. almost a month, brooke. think about that. he probably did have access to some food, given he was in a rice plant, some water and air as we mentioned. but, again, it is remarkable and he -- i talked to his family, he lost 30 pounds during that time period, obviously very, very physically straining, mentally straining as well. something happens in the body known as starvation keytosis. the body will start resort to just about anything to survive, breaking down muscle, breaking down other sources of protein in the body, and that's what leads to that unbelievable weight loss, but, again, he is someone who survived after, you know, close to a month, brooke. >> stunning. sanjay gupta, thank you very much. and don't miss your appointment with sanjay this coming weekend for his show. he'll have the latest on this incredible rescue in bangladesh, the three young women, freed

from captivity here in cleveland and also chris christie's weight loss surgery. set your dvr, watch it live saturday at 4:30 p.m. and sunday at 7:30 p.m. eastern here on cnn. want to let you know, we got the two-minute warning for the white house daily briefing, which has been pushed back several times now. so i'm guessing in 60 seconds or so, we will see jay carney step behind this podium. this is a big briefing today. why? because benghazi, benghazi will specifically be addressed. new questions about the investigation, the aftermath, and now this slew of e-mails that have surfaced. also, as erin mcpike was reporting from washington now, the irs apparently is targeting the tea party. so expect questions with regard to both of those. quickly, lori borger, let me try to squeeze you in before we see jay carney step behind the podium and speak. what are you looking for? >> i think the white house has to explain why they said what

they said about the cause for the terror attack in benghazi. and what we see from these e-mails that were first obtained by abc news is that there were 12 iterations of talking points which went from a broader explanation, which was, in fact, more accurate, about what caused the attack, which included links to al qaeda. down to the final version that was sort of scrubbed to the point, brooke, where it wasn't accurate. and didn't tell us anything, which talked about, you know, a spontaneous demonstration outside the consulate, which as we all know now is not the truth. so what we're trying to unravel here is just how an explanation that started out as something that was closer to the truth, got so scrubbed, that by the time it came to the american

public, either from ambassador rice, or to others, that it turned out not to be accurate. and so the white house is going to have to kind of walk us through that. >> yeah, you mentioned the 12 iterations of the talking points and ultimately we all saw susan rice making her rounds on sunday morning in her talking points based upon that 12 iteration as you mentioned that that was scrubbed. as we, again, wait for -- here he is. jay carney, stepping up to the podium. let's take it live. >> good friday afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. thank you for being here. i appreciate your patience. before i take your questions, i just wanted to note because it has been reported, we did, as many of you know, have a background briefing here at white house earlier. i think 14 news organizations were represented, ranging from online to broadcast tv, print, and the like. and we do those periodically, we

hope that participants find them helpful. i will say that no one here believes that breefgs libriefin that are substitutes for this briefing. i'm here to take questions with any issues you want to ask me about. with that, i go to the associated press. >> starting out with the irs issue. irs says -- says that in some instances workers inappropriately asked for -- and has apologized. when did the white house become aware that the irs engaged in this, and, you know, tax collection system that relies on trust, isn't the irs' credibility at stake here? and will the white house as called on by senator mcconnell cooperate with the investigation? >> well, two things, jim. i appreciate the question. and we certainly have seen those reports. my understanding is this matter is under investigation by the

ig. the -- at the irs. the irs, as you know, is an independent enforcement agency with only two political appointees. the fact of the matter is what we know about this is of concern and we find the actions taken as reported to be inappropriate. and we would fully expect the investigation to be thorough and for corrections to be made in a case like this. and i believe the irs has addressed that. and has taken some action and there is an investigation ongoing. it is certainly -- does seem to be based on what we have seen to be inappropriate action that we would want to see thoroughly investigated. >> give than the president was so critical of some of the groups, in 2010 and 2012, isn't it natural for the public to say

that these things are politically motivated? >> two things need to be noted, which is irs is an independent enforcement action. the -- which i believe, as i understand it, contains only two political appointees within it. the individual who is running the irs at the time was actually an appointee from the previous administration. but separate from that, there is no question that if this activity took place, it is inappropriate and there needs to be action taken and the president would expect that it be thoroughly investigated and action would be taken. >> on benghazi, and with all due credit to my colleague on the right, we now have e-mails showing the state department pushed back against talking point language from the cia, and expressed concern about how some of the information would be used politically in congress. you have said the white house made a stylistic change here, that these were not stylistic

changes, these were content changes. so, again, what role did the white house play, not just in making but directing changes? >> well, thank you for that question. the way to look at this, i think is to start from that week and understand that in the wake of the attacks in benghazi, an effort was under way to find out what happened, who was responsible. in response to a request from the house permanent select committee on intelligence, two of the cia -- the cia began a process of developing points that could be used in public by members of congress, by members of that committee. and that process, as is always the case, led by the cia, involved input from a variety of agencies with an interest in our stake in the process and that would include obviously the state department since it was a state department facility that

was attacked and ambassador who was killed as well as three others. the nss, the fbi, which is the lead investigation, investigating authority, and other entities. the cia in this case deputy director of the cia, took that process and issued a set of talking points on that saturday morning, and those talking points were disseminated. again this is all in response to requests from congress. and the only edit made by the white house or the state department to those talking points generated by the cia was a change from referring to the facility that was attacked in benghazi from consulate because it was not a consulate, to diplomatic posts. i think i referred to it in diplomatic facility, i think it may have been diplomatic post. it was a matter of nonsubstantive, factual correction. but there was a process leading

up to that that involved inputs from a lot of agencies as is always the case in a situation like this, and is always appropriate. and the effort is always to in that circumstance, with an ongoing investigation, and a lot of information, some of it accurate, some of it not, about what had happened and who was responsible, to provide information for members of congress and others in the administration, for example who might speak publicly about it, that was based on only what the intelligence community could say for sure it thought it knew and that is what was generated by the intelligence community, by the cia. >> but this information that was information that cia obviously knows about prior attacks, and warnings about those, does the president think that it was appropriate to keep that information away, simply because of how congress might use it? >> well, first of all, the cia was the agency that made changes

to the edits and to the talking points and then produced the talking points. first of all. second of all, i think the overriding concern of everyone involved in that circumstance is always to make sure that we're not givie ining to those who spn public about these situations information that cannot be confirmed, other things like warnings that may or may not be relevant to what we ultimately learn about what happened and why, all of that information, by the way, was and remains part of the investigation. it is information that provided to congress and to others looking into this matter, last fall, and throughout the winter and into this year. and that investigation continues. but on the substantive issues of what happened in benghazi, and at that time with the intelligence community thought it knew, that was reflected in the talking points that were

used again that weekend by ambassador rice and by others including members of congress. and i think if you look at the information that has been reported, you can see that evolution and it was -- the talking points were focused on what we knew and not speculation about what may or may not have been responsible or related. i would also say that all of this information was provided months ago to members of congress. a fact that we made clear to all of you at the time, during the confirmation process for john brennan as director of the cia, there was a request for more information including e-mails around the deliberating process involved in producing these talking points, and this administration took the rather extraordinary measure of providing those e-mails to members of the relevant committees as well as the leadership members and staff in

congress. and that information was available, again, in late february to members of congress, and through march and once that information was reviewed, in the case of the senate, senate republicans, a number of whom went on record saying i feel like i know what i need to know, then allowed the process for the confirmation of john brennan to go forward and he was confirmed in early march. >> why were those e-mails provided in a legal fashion? >> it is a standard procedure for administrations of both parties going back decades that internal deliberations are generally protected. it is generally protected information that is not something that is regularly shared with congress. and then that's to allow for a deliberative process in the executive branch. in this case, to answer just these concerns that members of congress had, particularly republican members of congress, that step was taken. and provided and they were -- they were able to review all of

these e-mails, which they have now leaked to reporters, but they were able to review all of these e-mails, for as long as they wanted, take extensive notes if they chose to. and, again, once that process was completed, the confirmation of john brennan went forward, a number of republicans came forward and said they felt like they had the information they needed about that aspect of the benghazi incident. and it is only now for what i think is, again, reflective of ongoing attempts to politicize a tragedy that took four american lives, you know. we're now seeing it resurface together with, you know, sort of political assertions by republicans that ignore the basic facts here. there was an attack on our facility in benghazi. the intelligence community provided the information that it felt comfortable providing for public dissemination to members

of government, congress and the administration. as we learned more about what happened, we provided it. that's why everybody has received the information that it has throughout this process. from the -- one of the things i think is interesting about the points is that from the very beginning there was included in the points the statement about demonstrations taking place outside of the building and the facility in benghazi. that is what the assessment, the consensus or collective assessment of the intelligence community was. from that there was spontaneous attacks launched against the facility, and when we found out that that was not true, when the assessment changed, we made that clear. and that was going back, if you remember, when we had this discussion back in the fall, that was the point that republicans were focusing on, and, yet, it is clear from what you see in these documents that that was the assessment made by the intelligence community and it is also clear from every --

the evolution of what public officials said about what we knew, that as we got more concrete information and information that we felt confident about, we provided it to the press, to congress and the public. >> the substance of these e-mails would suggest -- or have very specific exchanges between state department official and officials here at the white house in which the state department official raises concerns about providing talking points that would include a mention of al qaeda because of a concern that congress would use that against the state department. >> i think that's actually not -- i think you need to -- the state department said the spokesman's office raised two primary concerns about the talking points. the points went further in assigning responsibility than preliminary assessments suggested and there was concern about preserving the integrity of the investigation, that concern was expressed in other

quarters, not just at the state department. >> specifically concern about giving members of congress something to use against the state department. >> well, again, this was a process where there was an effort under way, an interagency process, to develop information that could be delivered by government officials, both congressional and administrative, administration officials, about what we knew and not going beyond what we knew. so the assertions -- >> that's -- the language of that e-mail is pretty clear. and the response is pretty clear in terms of saying we want to address victoria nuland's concerns. it certainly seems clear that there was an influence by the white house and the state department on the cia talking points. >> in the end, i think you're confused by a couple of things here.

prior to that, had very few inputs on it. the other discussions that went on prior to this, in an interagency process, reflected the concerns of a variety of agencies, who had a stake in this issue, both the fbi, because it was investigating, cia, and other intelligence agencies, and the state department because an ambassador had been killed, a diplomatic facility had been attacked. and what i think the concern was is that these points not provide information that was speculative in terms of whether it was relevant to what happened. and the -- and what, you know, could not be known at that time was the relevance of issues about warnings, was the -- there is the discussion about, you know, the republicans again, and this ongoing effort that began hours of the attacks when mitt romney put out a press release to try to take political

advantage out of these deaths, or out of the attack in benghazi, and, in a move that was maligned even by members of his own party. and from that day forward, there has been this effort to politicize it. if you look at the issue here, the efforts to politicize it were always about, you know, were we trying to play down the fact that there was an act of terror and an attack on the embassy. and the problem has always been with that assertion it is completely hollow because the president himself in the rose garden said this was an act of terror and he talked about it within the context of september 11th, 2001. he talked -- and then we had other officials of the administration refer to this as a terrorist act. susan rice, when she went out on the sunday shows, using the very talking points that we're discussing now, talked about the possibility that we knew that -- we believed based on the intelligence assessment that extremists were involved, and

there were suspicions about what affiliations those extremists might have, but there were not -- there was not hard concrete evidence, and so ambassador rice, in those shows, talked about the possibility that al qaeda might be involved or other al qaeda affiliates might be involved or non-al qaeda libyan extremists. it was simply a reflection of we did not, and the intelligence community did not and others within the administration did not jump to conclusions about who was responsible before we had an investigation to find out the facts. >> was there concern about how congress would react a factor and what went into the talking points? >> again, if you look at the development of the talking points, the answer to that is no because the talking points reflect the intelligence community's assessment of what happened. and all of the other issues about, you know who is

responsible, what specific organization maze have participated, what information was available, or threats were known about the situation in libya, or in benghazi, specifically. all of that was part of an investigation and was, again, provided to congress and as we learn more to the public by the administration. >> since you say this is a minor change, minor change in venue, with the wording change in venue, why such a big deal today with this deep background, off the record, briefing, it makes the same -- >> it wasn't off the record and that was an erroneous report. but the -- it is a big deal because republicans have chosen in the latest iteration of their efforts to politicize this, to provide, you know, leak this information to reporters, information that we provided months ago, to republican lawmakers from the relevant committees, committees, and republican leadership as well as

democratic, and, you know, there is an ongoing effort to make something political out of this. but the problem with that effort is that it -- it is never clear what when it comes to who was responsible, we were very open about what we knew, what we thought we knew, what we did for a fact know, and the fact that this was an ongoing investigation and we would certainly learn more that would change our view of what happened in benghazi. >> it seems like there's been fuel added to the fire if this was such a minor issue why not just tell the press like you did a few minutes ago instead of having this background meeting with the select few and not the whole group right now if it was such a minor issue? >> again, i'm here right now to take your questions about this issue, and we have background briefings periodically and 14 news organizations were represented and, you know, that is something administrations do regularly, both parties, and as

i said at the top, it's not a replacement for this briefing. that's why i'm here taking your questions. >> how do you feel, a conversation that was apparently happening between various administration officials and officials of this government on september 14th and in that e-mail exchange there is a discussion about a group al shaharya and after victoria newland raises concerns on the part of the state department that references to that group are then removed from that conversation and don't make their way into the talking points. that is not a cylistic edit, not a stylistic edit or single adjustment as you said in november but a major, dramatic change in the information. >> i appreciate the question and the opportunity to make clear the cia produced talking points the result of an interagency process on that saturday morning. >> when you say talking points -- >> let me finish this and then you can follow up.

from that -- >> -- from pressure from other parties that were involved -- >> i would point you to the numerous statements by the top officials at the cia making clear that they wrote the talking points, that they believed those talking points represented what they knew to the best of their knowledge at that time and did not include things that they could not be concretely sure of. this is a good example. if you remember in the wake of these attacks there was an initial claim of responsibility by that group and a lot of people rushed out and said, well, this is the group that's responsible. then that group withdrew the claim of responsibility. now neither is dispositive. that is why it needs to be investigated. what we knew was not concretely for sure that group was responsible at that time but we knew extremists were participants. that is what the talking points said. the idea, jim, if i could, the idea that saying extremists is somehow hiding the ball, i mean,

does anybody in this room not understand extremists in libya means the kind of people who would attack a u.s. diplomatic facility? >> if you go back to what susan rice was talking about during the talk shows, she may have left open the possibility of extremists but this is an all together different thing. >> she talked about the fact that they may be responsible. she talked about the fact that al qaeda could be responsible or other al qaeda claimed affiliates. what she did not say is that we know for a fact that they're responsible. that's why in the basic talking points, again, all about talking points, not about the facts of the investigation or all of the information that has been provided to congress in countless hearings, countless pieces of information, documents that have been provided -- 20,000, 25,000 pages of documents -- this was just the talking points that were the baseline for what public officials, beginning with

members of congress, that's what they were developed for, but also provided to ambassador rice, and then she spoke beyond that based on, you know, what could be true as opposed to what we knew to be true. >> just a followup, once and for all. you are comfortable, still comfortable. >> you promise? >> well, maybe not. but you are comfortable with the way you characterized this back in november, this was a single adjustment, yes, it may have been the white house that made a single adjustment and perhaps the cia drafted these talking points but that is sort of glossing over the fact you had all of these other parties involved. these are not stylisticed its, jay. this is very much a content-driven change. >> let me just make clear. i do stand by when we were talking about the talking points produced by the cia and provided to members of congress and the intelligence committee in the house who asked for it as well

as folks in the administration that document, there was an accepted edit by the white house and that was to make it factual. the calling of the building in benghazi a consulate because it was not a consulate, to diplomatic post or facility. i can't remember which. but prior to that there had been a lot of discussion and iteration where the various issues were discussed about what could be publicly said, what we know and what we're speculating about. that process could involve a whole bunch of agencies. it is also the case it did not involve -- the white house involvement was very limited and nonsubstantive. but the issues you mention had to do with limiting the talking points to what we knew was speculation about what may or may not in the end be relative to what happened in benghazi. >> you told us the only changes

made were stylistic. is it a stylistic change to take out all references to previous terror threats in benghazi? >> i appreciate the question, again, and i think what i was referring to was the talking points the cia made and sent around and i accept stylistic may not precisely describe a change of one word to another -- >> these were extensive changes after they were written by the cia. the white house directed the interagency process to use this in making these talking points. the cia original version included references to al qaeda, to al islam, the original cia version included extensive discussion of the previous threats of terrorist attacks in benghazi. they were taken out after the cia wrote the initial draft. >> the cia wrote another draft. >> based on input from the state department.

>> but here is what i've been saying. >> do you deny that? >> no, john. i've answered this question several times but i'm happy to answer again if you let me. that is that there was an interagency process, which is always the case because a lot of agencies have a stake in a matter like this, the ivestigative agency, the cia, the intelligence agencies, the state department in this case. the national security staff. and everybody provided information and comment and on saturday morning the cia said we're going to take a crack at drafting these points based on what we know. the things you're talking about again don't go to the fundamental issue, which is what could be said concretely about what we -- what the intelligence community knew to be true, not that some people thought it was al shaharya, some people thought it was other libyan extremists. we believed we knew extremists participated. there was also the belief from the beginning by the

intelligence community in these points that there had been protests out of which the attack occurred, protests in response to the demonstrations that were in cairo at our embassy that were in response to that video. that turned out not to be the case. but it's -- it demonstrates the fluidity of the information, the fact that it was hard and continues to be hard in an investigation to know concretely especially in the first days afterwards what happened. that's why we were so careful to say, here's what we know or believe we know and every time we said that, we fully expect this information to change as we learn more and it did. and we provided it. again, the whole effort here by republicans to find some hidden mystery comes to nothing because the president called it an act of terror. the ambassador of the united nations, that very sunday, that has caused republicans so much concern talked about the

possible involvement of al qaeda and ansar al shaharya. all of this is a distraction from the key issues. a diplomatic post was attacked by individuals in libya in benghazi. four americans lost their lives. from the beginning the president has committed all of the resources of this administration, this government to finding out who was responsible and bringing them to justice. he also very clearly together with the secretary of state said we need to be sure we find out what went wrong, what problems there were with security that allowed this to happen, to hold people accountable, and to make the necessary changes so that it doesn't happen again. and that process happened, was stood up by the secretary of state. it was a process led by two of the most experienced and widely

regarded figures in national -- >> you have been listening to jay carney answer myriad questions when it comes to what happened in benghazi, libya september 11 of last year. jake tapper will be all over it this next hour. that does it for me here in a very rainy cleveland, ohio. thanks for being with me. "the lead" with jake tapper starts now. the white house facing some tough questions. i'm jake tapper and this is "the lead." the national lead, michelle knight in cleveland is now free to come and go as she pleases after she was released from the hospital this afternoon. but questions are swirling about why police took her name off the fbi data base way back in 2003. the politics lead. originally the obama administration talking points on the terrorist attack at benghazi reportedly mentioned warning signs and al qaeda. 12 revisions later, poof. vanished. now the white house and the state department have even more