>> see, that used to be a totally absurd concept. no way, right? but to borrow from the poet shelley, when tweet pee comes can eat pee be that far behind? i would say more but my dog just posted on facebook that she needs to go out. look, nature calls. i guess now, it also tweets. by the way, check out "saturday night live" this weekend. there's something on that's very, very funny. i'm sure there's many things but one that i know about. that does it for this edition of "360." see you again one hour from now at 10:00 p.m. eastern. that does it for now. "piers morgan live" starts now. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world and to my studio audience. big night here tonight. we have a special guest, bob costas, the voice of american sport. this is "piers morgan live."

bob costas is absolutely fearless about speaking his mind on events on and off the field. he's got a lot to say about the stories we're all talking about from o.j. simpson back in court this week to jason collins coming out after 12 seasons in the nba, even the growing scandals rocking the white house. so much to get to tonight. bob costas i'm delighted to say joins me now. how are you? >> good, piers. how are you? >> couldn't think of a better person, really, given the events of the last month in a sense. everything straddling your world because your world in a way, the sports world, has straddled every other world, whether it's racial equality, whether it's gay rights -- >> if not always, at least from time to time. which is why it's so almost amusing but also annoying when people say a sports announcer has no business dealing with these issues when what they really mean is a sports announcer has no business saying something i disagree with, but if he said something i agreed with about a social issue that touched sports, then there would be no problem with it. >> you see, i love watching you because i love to hear the

opinions about other stuff, too. but there are people and you know this, who say i don't want to hear bob costas banging on about guns or whatever it may be. i want him to stick to sport. what do you say to those people? >> well, in the case of the gun situation, the only reason i addressed it was because the jumping-off point was a murder-suicide involving an nfl player. even something more news-worthy like aurora, which preceded it or newtown, which followed it, would not have prompted me to talk about guns. in retrospect, i think i didn't do as good a job as i generally do of being precise in how i express myself and i should have realized that the time was so short, there wasn't enough room to put in all the qualifiers that i could have put in. so i don't regret addressing the issue, but i think that the way in which it was addressed was properly understood by a large portion of the audience, but understandably misinterpreted by another portion of the audience and that's on me. >> see, i thought the reaction was absurd. >> some of it was, yeah. >> because i had been

campaigning pretty vociferously about gun control because i come from a country and i won't labor the point, where we just don't have gun violence like you do in america. we have 30, 40 murders a year from guns. you have 12,000 in america. and when i heard what you said, i watched it several times, i loved the fact that you chose that moment to say it, and then i checked back before this interview to work out it was about 10 days later, 12 days later that newtown happened. there you were being harangued for ten days by people, shut up, bob costas, what are you to tell us about guns, then comes what i think has been one of the worst gun outrages in american history. >> and we thought that changed the debate, but not enough for those members of the senate, some of them may honestly hold a certain extreme second amendment view, that may be their honest view so you can't accuse them of cowardice, but obviously there's a large number or was a large number that were beyond feckless to craven and cowardly and caved

in front of the nra, and wouldn't even vote for something as simple as a universal background check. here's something i don't understand when you talk about the nra. they're constantly talking about responsible law-abiding gun owners, and rightly so. i'm not hostile toward the second amendment. in fact, i applaud someone who is a responsible gun owner, support that person if they want to have a gun to protect their home and their family to use it for sporting purposes, fine. but we all know that there are irresponsible abuses of guns. those are the circumstances that the nra should be front and center criticizing. they should understand that there is a gun culture in this country that has nothing to do with the original intent of the second amendment. they should understand that background checks would weed out the very people that they claim not to be, would weed out those who are not responsible law-abiding gun owners. why do they stand in front of reasonable reforms? >> you see, bob, the nra is not

the problem, as you and i know, because i've got a clip here from wayne lapierre. this is what he had to say about who the real problem is. >> my phone started ringing the minute it happened and i started getting all kinds of communications from people, just disgust disgusted. i mean, they tuned in to watch a sporting event and meanwhile, what they get in regard to this cold-blooded murder that took place is they get a national sportscaster whining about his social agenda that he wants adopted to ban firearms and ban handguns. i mean, the american public, it's shameful, they're disgusted by it. >> you are shameful and disgusting, and you're the problem, bob costas. what we all thought. people are running around committing shooting outrages. >> first of all, forgive me if i'm not sent into fits of self-doubt by being called shameful by wayne lapierre. but i never, never advocated and do not advocate in the deepest recesses of my mind a ban on

firearms or a ban on hand guns. you can have reasonable regulations of firearms. we regulate many things in this society without outlawing them. you could have reasonable regulations while still protecting people's legitimate second amendment rights. but let me get back to what i meant to say that night which was clear to some and not clear to others. i was talking about a gun culture in sports and specifically in the national football league. in retrospect, given the time that i had, i wish i had said if we want to gain some elusive perspective after tragedies like this, then a serious discussion has to begin within sports about a number of things, including, though not limited to, domestic violence and whether or not those who play a violent sport are more inclined toward domestic violence. the effects of football. we know that long range, it has an effect on people's cognitive ability, on their mood, it's led to suicide. but short term, does it lead to greater aggression off the

field, lack of impulse control, especially when mixed with painkillers, alcohol, whatever else. and third, the relationship between athletes and guns, and i could have and should have stipulated we're not talking here about the exercise of anyone's legitimate second amendment rights but we are talking about an irresponsible attitude toward guns which permeates the sports world and often, not always, but often leads to tragedy and almost never leads to anything good. >> i completely and heartily endorse that. i don't think you need to explain or clarify it at all. then you have someone like nba great charles barkley and he said this about guns. >> i carry a gun. >> you live in arizona, where you can -- >> even when i lived in philadelphia, i've had a gun, i carry a gun in my car every year of my life since i was 21, 22. i just feel safer with it. >> you see, there's a culture that goes way beyond sport in america, and it's a culture as

charles barkley said, i'm not going to criticize him at all, but he says he feels safer with a loaded firearm. >> david stern, the commissioner of the nba, said some years back that he understands that attitude, which large number of his players have, but that statistically, you're in greater danger carrying a gun, especially outside the home, greater danger carrying one than if you were without one. >> you're in more danger actually statistically in the home with guns. what's really shocked me, bob, i talked to you about this before, but what has really shocked me in the last few weeks has not been a mass shooting because there hasn't been one thank god for a few weeks, but there will be. it's not even been the ongoing crises in places like chicago which are as much down to poor law enforcement i think as anything else -- >> and a culture of criminality which has nothing to do with the nra or second amendment. >> it's a law enforcement issue. get in there and sort them out as they have done successfully in new york, by the way. what it comes down to is the recklessness of people with guns around children.

the number of children in the last two weeks in america who have shot other kids, siblings, friends, shot adults, it must be nearly ten cases in two weeks. these things happened and they're not even big news. >> yeah. there are guns that are manufactured for and marketed to children. >> yes. >> come in little bright colors -- >> crickets was the website. >> that's right. that's what happened with the 5-year-old kid whose parents, sorry that they had to suffer a tragedy, but what sort of parent buys a kid a useable, not a toy gun, but a useable gun with ammunition, then walks away and the kid kills his 2-year-old sister. >> let me ask a different question. you see, i agree -- and the reaction from the audience is obvious. >> by the way, that doesn't happen once a year in america. it happens a lot. >> this has been happening, as i say, nearly ten times in the last two, three weeks. but here's my problem with it. yes, you can blame irresponsible parents but what kind of society that is part of the great superpower of the world allows a

company like crickets to be deliberately marketing and selling guns to 5 year olds? >> let's also understand, the nra is a gun lobby, like any other lobbying organization. >> they want to sell guns. >> exactly. the pharmaceutical lobby, food and beverage lobby, tobacco lobby, they want to sell guns. their board is filled with gun manufacturers whose main interest is protecting their ability to sell you a bushmaster or to sell the parents of a 5-year-old a cricket. >> here's the thing, bob. if, if there was advertising on television in america aimed at letting 5 year olds drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes, there would be an outrage. >> clearly. >> the fact that there's advertising to get your first rifle, a real rifle that can kill, nobody seems that outraged. where is the outrage? >> well, look, the nra convention just concluded in houston. there are legitimate second amendment points to be made and some of the points that they make should be part of a

reasonable discussion. on the other hand, this extremist absolutist view of the second amendment which they cloak in high-minded talk about freedom and patriotism, they are the true patriots. forgive me if i doubt that if the founders were reincarnated that they would say let's head to houston because that's where our intellectual and spiritual heirs can be found. let's stand shoulder to shoulder with everybody at the nra convention because they're exactly what we had in mind. >> i mean, my real issue, the background checks thing i find unfathomable because why wouldn't you want every gun to be, you know, they have this terror of being registered. well, you have to register a car. >> of course. >> cars have many uses, you know. they're not designed to kill people. guns only have one use. they kill things. >> if you purchase sudafed you're in a register because sudafed can be an ingredient in crystal meth. >> i can't go to walmart in various states in america and

buy six packets of sudafed because it's bad for my health. i can't buy certain types of french cheese because it's bad for my health. i can't buy a kinder egg because i may choke on the little toy so i'm banned from having it. but i can go into the same supermarket banning me from most things and i can buy an ar-15 military assault rifle that can fire 100 shots in a minute, and that's the rifle used at aurora and sandy hook. >> give me one example where a citizen used an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine for a constructive purpose. they always present this theoretic well, what if there's not one or two invaders to my home, what if there's 10 or 12, and after i've killed the first eight or nine, i need to reload. yeah, let me know when that happens, and between now and when that happens, sadly, there's going to be another aurora. there's going to be another newtown. there's going to be another tucson. and when they talk about anyone -- no one that i know wants to confiscate firearms or

abridge the real meaning of the second amendment but when they try and make it sound as if everyone who proposes even the most commonsense and moderate gun regulations is really only up to a nefarious game which is about confiscating their guns so that a tyrannical government will have them at their mercy, go talk to gabby giffords' husband, an astronaut and gun owner. talk to the former phillies and yankees manager, dallas green, a life-long hunter, collector of john wayne movies whose granddaughter was among those shot and killed in the gabby giffords incident. tell those people that their sort of mealy-mouthed panty-waist nonpatriotic gun haters. no they're not. they're sensible americans who see there's a situation out of control and don't want the national debate to be controlled by extremists. >> well said. let's take a break.

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554 against memphis which is an individual record. gilmore in the lane has it slapped away and stolen. he brings the dribble out on a four-on-two. >> at the other end, driving layup blocked by c.j. fans wanted a goaltending call. >> the voice is unmistakable, young bob costas 37 years ago doing play by play -- >> actually more than that. >> we found that tape on

youtube. you sounded a bit nasally. care to respond? >> i think that puts it mildly. i was 22 years old, right out of syracuse university. so it's actually closer to 40 years ago. >> you ever wondered if things had been different, you could have become one of those great movie announcers? always thought your voice had that kind of tone to it, you know? just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water. "jaws 2." i can see you doing that. >> from the producer of "the terminator." >> we've got a question from gerald. >> hi, bob. >> hi. >> my question is in two parts. >> all right. >> what made you desire to become a sports broadcaster in the first place, and since becoming one of the best, what is your take on how the profession has changed since your early days at nbc in 1970s? >> well, i wanted to be a sports announcer because i loved sports as a kid, and i was also enchanted by the voices of sport.

back then, more games were on radio than on television. the announcer was even more important. and the best broadcasters gave the game almost a melody. vin scully, lindsey nelson, marty glickman, jim mckay, harry caray and jack buck out of st. louis. i wanted to be one of them. there was a romance to what they did. i also figured out by the time i was 10 that if i was ever going to get into yankee stadium or madison square garden without paying for a ticket it wouldn't be mickey mantle or willis reed, it would be to be mel allen or marv albert. i decided i would become a sports broadcaster. >> i'll come to the other part of your question a bit later when we talk about the state of football in particular today. i want to ask you about lance armstrong, because there is a man who, for a long time, was put up as the great american sporting icon. the most inspiring, the most formidable, the great champion, the seven times tour de france winner, and it all came crashing down. what was the moment for you when

the blinkers maybe came off and you realized he is a cheat? >> well, i think the evidence was accumulating year after year and there was so much smoke, you figured there had to be fire. but at one point last year, he dropped the case. he just said it's gone too far and his statement was i can't put up -- >> time to quit. >> for him to quit, because he was always, in contrast to a lot of guys who were involved with performance-enhancing drugs he was always quick to challenge anybody to take them to court, to call them a liar, to say get me on the air. in fact, one time several years ago, i was in that seat filling in for larry king for a week, and one of these accusations came out in the french newspaper, and he actually called me, he was savvy enough, he called me, he knew that a sports guy was going to be sitting in this seat and that it was seen internationally, would be seen in europe. he said i want to go on for the full hour and refute these

allegations. and i asked him every challenging question i could think of, every skeptical question. he was very smooth, he never wavered, he was very, very -- >> he lied to you. >> he lied to me and he lied to everybody else. >> so again, for those who may not be clear on this, you are flatly saying, regardless of the fact that you have criticisms of the protocol, even if the protocol was correct, there's no way they could have found epo in your urine because you're flatly saying you never use it? >> when i peed in that bottle, there wasn't epo in it. no way. >> he was a good liar, wasn't he? >> he was a very good liar because he was intelligent and he had a series of facts or what he purported to be facts rather than evasions and he did have the one thing going for him that he had been tested repeatedly in and out of competition, and never failed a drug test. >> we now know all that happened was he had gone to ever more elaborate scientific ways of avoiding the testers. >> of course. with the livestrong foundation and all the good work that he

did on behalf of cancer research and victims of cancer, that won him sympathy. >> i think the whole livestrong thing was a cover. i hate to say it. i hate to be that cynical but my problem with lance armstrong, i think he built that whole edifice around himself to protect himself from the rampant cheating that went on during that entire period. >> one big difference between armstrong and other athletes involved with peds, to americans, lance armstrong was cycling. the truth is, most americans don't know -- >> he was bigger, though, wasn't he? he was america for a long time. he was a winner. he never quit. he was inspiring. he beat cancer. he went back and won again. >> it was about him. you could root and many people do, for tiger woods because they find him a compelling golfer. they don't necessarily embrace everything about him personally. there are other athletes who make a long list but with armstrong, since americans by and large don't care about cycling, it was all about their feeling about him. they had to believe in him.

so this fall is even greater than the fall of some others. >> how did you feel that he lied so spectacularly like this right across a desk for an hour on television, around the world, he looked you, bob costas, in the eye, one of the most respected men yourself in american sport, and just sold you a complete pack of lies. >> i didn't take it personally. i just thought that that was his deal. >> did he ever apologize to you? >> no. i'm sure it's a long list and he hasn't gotten to me yet. got a lot of apologizing to do. >> let's take a break, come back and talk about staying on the golf thing but not really about golf, the masters. is it the most racist, sexist institution in modern sport. have a think about that answer. you make a great team. it's been that way since the day you met.

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you're supposed to come here and know your stuff. if you're going to jump me and jump all over me, then you should have watched some of this. you should really know your facts. i'm disappointed. >> i have seen some of it. >> would you let me finish. >> absolutely. >> a rather scary moment there with vince mcmahon. bob, what were you thinking when that was all going on? >> here was the deal. it was completely live, hbo, no commercials. i think the segment was scheduled for 15 minutes but because it got so tense they let it just keep going. 27, 28 minutes. much of it was unrelenting tension just like that.

now, i didn't think, some did, i didn't think that he was going to swat me or wring my neck. i did realize that he was getting up in my grill to try and intimidate me. now, he outweighed me more than two to one and god knows what he might have been hopped up on, all right. on the other hand, how far back could i go, to the back of the seat? so i'm sitting there figuring i can back up and look timid, or when he comes forward, i can come forward and you notice there, i didn't really say anything but i smiled at him and that made him angrier still, because whatever he was trying wasn't working. vince is actually a great showman and a smart guy -- >> we have a statement from vince. >> get out of town. >> we do. >> i haven't seen him in a few years. >> it's rather a good one. he said i used to think bob costas was a pompous, arrogant, self-absorbed pseudointellectual little twerp. i used to think that. now 12 years later, hai've comeo

realize he's not really a twerp. lol. >> you know, he called me, he called me the next day after that and he said bob, i want a rematch. you took number one. let's make it two out of three. i think if i did prevail on that, it wasn't so much on content if you read the transcript, as it often is on television, it was tone. he got all worked up. and i didn't. i kind of -- i might have won on tone. >> it was a great television moment. let's watch this. this is a clip from you last month talking about the augusta national golf club which nobody ever criticizes. let's see what you had to say about it. >> what no cbs commentator has ever alluded to, even in passing, even during a rain delay, even when there was time to do so, is augusta's history of racism and sexism, even when people were protesting just outside the grounds. forget about taking a side. never acknowledging it. so not only would i never work the masters because i'm not at

cbs, but i would have to say something and then i would be ejected. >> i mean, that is the reality. it's a pretty shocking reality. it's like some old gentlemen's club, isn't it. >> couple things about this. i felt bad for one reason on the fallout. i did not mean to criticize anybody at present at cbs. i was talking about the arc of history there. cbs, this is not a make-good statement, i truly believe this, they do the masters about as well as a sports event can be done and jim nantz, their main anchor, is magnificent. he's superb. he's got the whole assignment nailed. >> let me -- >> but what i was talking about is this. >> cbs, to be fair. i totally agree about their golf coverage. they're terrific. but let's call them out. i haven't heard one of them say how outrageous it wasn't women weren't allowed to be members of augusta club in modern day america. >> because since 1956, cbs has been on a one year deal with augusta national, which can be ended at any time at augusta national's discretion.

the great jack whitaker once referred to the gallery as a mob and he, one of the most erudite of all sports broadcasters, was banished. that's what i was alluding to. you would be banished if you ever said anything which they considered to be out of line. i do not think that cbs should be talking about that now since in 1990, they admitted their first black member and recently they admitted two women, including condoleezza rice. but over the course of time, this was an issue. in fairness, the field at the masters which once was lily white now doesn't just include tiger woods, it's very diverse. it's internationally diverse. so in that sense, if you're looking at a snapshot right now, there isn't all that much to talk about. but if you're talking about in the '60s, '70s, '80s, the '90s, there had to have been a time when this circumstance should have been acknowledged and it never was. >> it was completely outrageous. what did you make of the jason collins thing recently? he came out as the first openly

gay active professional male athlete in america. >> surprised that it took that long. glad that it did. i think he's a perfect candidate for a couple of reasons. one, he's obviously an extremely bright, well educated guy and he's able to understand and if he chooses to, speak articulately about the issue. but also, he's been in the league for a long time, so some of these vague notions that players may have, well, geez, how will he act in the locker room, we want to take a shower with him, all that sort of thing, well, wait a minute, not only has he been in the league for 12 years, he's been with a half dozen teams. he's probably been a teammate of yours or a teammate of someone who you know, and none of these fears has ever come to pass. he's the perfect guy to deflect all of these either bigoted or let's be kind, some people are uncomfortable and haven't come around on it yet. he's the perfect person to give the lie to those notions. >> when we come back after the

break with a question from a member of the audience, from daniel. >> this is an unbelievable interview. my question is to you, bob, is in the 35 plus years covering sports, what is the greatest sports moment that you recall or that you have ever been at? we see you in golf, we see you in basketball, baseball. it's probably really hard with so many great moments. >> great question. do not answer. we'll be back after the break. [ indistinct conversations ] [ male announcer ] when you wear dentures you may not know it, but your mouth is under attack. food particles infiltrate and bacteria proliferate. ♪ protect your mouth, with fixodent. the adhesive helps create a food seal defense for a clean mouth and kills bacteria for fresh breath. ♪ fixodent, and forget it.

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back now with bob costas. we left off on a cliffhanger there, what is the single best sports moment you have ever seen. >> i can't narrow it to one but i would go mohammed ali lighting the torch in 1996 at the opening ceremony at the atlanta olympics. michael jordan's last shot which should have been the last shot of his career, then he came back with the wizards but what really closed his bulls career in 1998, i was lucky enough to call that, the championship winning shot against the utah jazz. and then kirk gibson's pinch hit home run off dennis eckersley in game one of the 1988 world series which was so cinematic that before game two, we actually cross-cut it with the last scene of "the natural." robert redford, kirk gibson. the best part was wilford brimley as the manager and tommy lasorda, the actual manager, they were so physically similar and when they each jumped up,

they each got about this high off the ground and it matched perfectly. it was just -- >> here's a question. i know you love your stats. who is the greatest sportsman you have ever seen in any sport, for whatever reason? >> perhaps the greatest all around athlete would be jim brown, the great american football player who also could have been the greatest lacrosse player who ever lived, undoubtedly could have played basketball in the nba. he would be way up there. >> what about tiger? the reason i mention him, he's on a hot streak again now. if he continues that, he could smash all records into oblivion. but also, what he represents. tiger woods coming when he did, the importance of that. he's doing for sport in america what barack obama did for politics. >> well, but the barriers had been broken in sports in other sports, and in fact, lee elder and charlie sippert and a few other african golfers had been on the tour. tiger broke through as a winner.

>> he broke through in what was still a predominantly white sport. >> no question about it. it was tremendously symbolic when he won his first major at augusta in 1997, where a generation earlier, he might not have been able to play. >> when he made his comeback recently, starting to play well, nike took out these ads basically saying winning is all that matters. a lot of women got quite upset about that. it's not, actually. cost him his marriage and so on. >> in the end, as a sports lover, they had a point, didn't they? it is about winning, isn't it? >> i think a lot of people are able to separate and that doesn't mean that they approve of or dismiss misbehavior, but they are able to separate an athletic performance from personal behavior. they're also able to make a distinction between athletic authenticity and other forms of misbehavior. so you know, someone misbehaves in all kinds of ways but it doesn't impact on the integrity of his performance, then you can separate those things out.

and other than a quibble here or there about an illegal drop or something like that, no one questions the authenticity of tiger woods' sporting performances. for example, mark mcguire, the former cardinals slugger, one of the nicest people i have ever met in sports, but you have to discount some of what he did because he used steroids. that doesn't mean he's a bad guy. he's a better guy than a lot of guys who were clean. but you can't -- you can't say that his performance is 100% authentic. >> well, no. the moment i hear they cheated, i don't see any of their performance as authentic. it may be harsh but as a sports fan, i take a pretty high bar on this thing. there are the cheats and the non-cheats, aren't there? >> well, there's some validity in that. some validity in that. this brings me back not entirely related, but a few people in the aftermath of jason collins cited their religious beliefs and said well, if he's openly gay, then he's in violation of biblical

principles, and if anyone has premarital sex or if they have sex outside marriage, then they, too. and i'm thinking if that's going to be your standard, tim tebow is going to have to play every position on the field. how the hell are you going to field a team? >> bob, i'm going to put you on the spot. i leave you with this little cliffhanger. what's been the great interview of your life? you have done so many. i would love to know the answer to that. [ musick ] i knew there were a lot of tech jobs available out there. i knew devry university would give me the skills that i needed to make one of those tech jobs mine. we teach cutting-edge engineering technology, computer information systems, networking and communications management -- the things that our students need to know in the world today. our country needs more college grads to help fill all the open technology jobs. to help meet that need, here at devry university, we're offering $4 million dollars in tech scholarships for qualified new students. learn more at devry.edu.

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i would be rolling torpedos, get blunted with rastas for a hefty fee i'm on your record like bob costas. >> bob costas rapping there. good rhyme there, bob. >> they asked me who my favorite rapper was on the major league baseball. as it happened, ten years ago, ludachris name-checked me. i left viewers on a cliffhanger again which is your favorite interview, for whatever reason. what would you say? >> well, i interviewed ted williams, who some people think is the greatest hitter of all time, in 1988 at a time when he had not done an interview, radio or television, at all, in 15, 16 years. and he was amazingly forthcoming and he's a compelling figure and at one point i said to him you know, you're the guy who john wayne played in all those movies. you're actually the guy. and he hitched for a moment, a

moment of modesty, but then honesty overtook him and he said yeah, i know it. >> there was also a famous interview with mickey mantle. want to play a clip from that here. >> i always had the sense that there was a sadness about you. we all have some regret but i always felt there was quite a bit of sadness about you. in retrospect, was that true? >> yeah. i think that when i did drink a little too much or something, it kind of relieved the tension that i felt within myself maybe, because i hadn't been what i should have been. >> because you hadn't been the ball player you felt you should have been? >> or the daddy. >> so bob, i've got a little surprise for you. it's a statement from mickey mantle's son, exclusive to us just for this show. we would like to tell bob how much the interview helped my dad be able to express himself to his family. we were a family that never said i love you much and after the interview it made it much easier. we love bob for helping the world to see mickey mantle for

the great person he really was. he understood that young people shouldn't look at him as a role model, that he was still a hero to his family. that's quite something. >> and a hero to many baseball fans. that distinction was important to him. distinction between a hero, baseball hero, and role model. mickey was the first one to tell you how deeply flawed he was. but there was a tremendous humanity about him, too. >> the other more recent pretty infamous interview was one you did with jerry sandusky. i want to play a little clip from that. >> i say that i am innocent of those charges. >> innocent? completely innocent and falsely accused in every aspect? >> well, i could say that, you know, i have done some of those things. i have horsed around with kids. i have showered after workouts. i have hugged them and i have touched their leg without intent of sexual contact, but so if you

look at it that way, there are things that -- that wouldn't, you know, would be accurate. >> you know, it was when i heard that interview that i knew he was guilty. >> me, too. >> because no man of that age would say those things. >> no. >> without being guilty of being a pedophile. it's just not the way that adult men behave around young boys. who are not their children. >> and since he didn't testify in his own defense, for obvious reasons, that's the only time most of the american public heard from him. i didn't know what to expect, and as he continued to dig himself in deeper, i was as surprised as any of you were. >> amazing. what is the art of interviewing, you think? is there one? >> i could ask the same question of you. i think it's important to be prepared but not to be locked into your preparation. because you have to be ready to respond to whatever the person says and if you can win the person's trust, which is not the

same thing as their affection. they don't have to believe that you're going throw them a softball. but if they know you're not there to ambush them but ask them legitimate questions, even if they're tough and straightforward questions, then i think they're apt to respect you and to respond in kind. >> my producers are saying are you listening to this. my signature question, i may as well throw it in to you, i've had the great pleasure of meeting your wife earlier who i've got to say, you're batting way above your average, by the way, on that one. but how many times have you been properly in love, bob costas, in your life? >> properly in love? does that mean like with tea and crumpets? >> it could be any definition you think it means. >> three. >> three times. >> yeah. >> that's the hat trick. >> that is the hat trick. do you believe you finally got to the right place for you? >> i'm in a very, very good place. yes. very good place. >> let's take a very quick question from lindsey, because this is relevant i think to your appeal to the ladies. >> hello, lindsey. >> hi. first, bob, i would like to thank you for your comments

about gun control, especially domestic violence. it's a really critical issue. >> thank you. >> on a lighter note, you have such a youthful to you and will you share it? >> dick clark went to syracuse as i did and so i've known dick since i was in my early 30s. he passed away sometime ago and frequently, even then when i was 32, 33 years old, you are like dick clark. you're like dick clark. i don't know what the secret is. try not to booze too much. you know? and be found in a gutter at 3:00 in the morning. >> let's take a final break and very quick segment an then talk very quickly about soccer and cricket because they to me are the only sports that really matter. [ dog barking ]

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david beckham retired this week from football. many british soccer fans think he retired when he came to america five years ago. i got a quick question from steven. steven, just ask the question you wanted to ask. >> first of all, piers, sorry, manchester united won the premier league again.

>> i'll have you removed if you carry on. >> i want to know why you think it's not a major league in the u.s. >> because no one goes to brazil and says how come you're not baseball crazy or hockey crazy? you had entrenched sports in america. so, we're in a different place. i think that soccer's made some inroads and never going to break through at the level of those other sports. >> my theory is because america doesn't have a good enough national team and the moment it does i can actually win the world cup, you'll all get excited. >> we thought that when the women's world cup was won and it didn't sustain. however, as a participant sport, my kids played soccer. millions and millions of kids play. it's a great par it is pant sport. i don't see it rivaling the big three or four -- >> why is it that you call your domestic competitions like the

baseball series the world series? when america's the only team that's allowed to enter. >> it's true. it's true. in 1903, somebody decided that the baseball world was confined to -- >> to america. >> not only united states but st. louis and east and that was the world series so why change it? >> let's did to a quick quiz. you have questions for me. i have some for you. do you know what a -- if i said i was bowling you a googly and two silly mid ones and a fine leg, do you know what the hell i'm talking about? >> i would say the police probably brought you home in the middle of the night. >> that is cricket terminology. >> i figured cricket. >> you bowl a ball flipped over and comes out reverse. >> like a screwball in baseball. >> like a screwball and the silly mid on would be about ten yards on from the batter i guess and the fine leg would be down in the corner of the field.

>> i have to tell you that both in australia and in britain i ooif spent hours and hours in front of the television set trying to decipher what i'm watching and i'm as clueless as eni was -- >> we have a simple phrase for it. crick set basically baseball for people with brains. it's deliberately complicated. we make it so complicated that americans just can't understand it. >> all right. i have one for you. >> go on. >> what's an uncle charlie? >> an uncle charlie? i have an uncle charlie, actually. >> do you? >> i'm sure it doesn't involve him. >> it's a curveball. a good curveball is an uncle charlie. what's a ribbie. >> with fries at mcdonald's? >> that's an mcrib. a ribbie is a run batted in. >> i do like the baseball and i can sing the -- let's all go to the ball game.

what's it all called? ♪ let's all go -- >> take me out to the ball game. buy me some peanuts and cracker jack's bob costas, a great pleasure. that's all for us tonight. thank you, bob. good night. good evening. i'm anderson cooper. it's been over a month now since the deadly bombings in boston and there's time now to reflect and really investigate what happened. tonight we focus on several iconic images from the terror attacks and its aftermath. we'll meet the photographers who took them and meet the people to try to understand the moment and how it's changed everything since. randi kaye has our special report. >> to me, there's something inherently powerful about the still images. >> the