welcome to a special edition of "gps: beyond the man hunt, how to stop terror." >> the united states has conducted an operation that killed osama bin laden. >> it was just two years ago that navy seals in pakistan spoke the words geronimo ekia. that meant osama bin laden was finally dead. today, the fight continues. as we saw in boston. but stepping back from the moment's crisis, we also need to

ask larger questions about the state of our security. what is the threat out there? and are we prepared for it? >> he intended to use the remaining explosives that he had and detonate them in times square. >> the fight today is at home and abroad. >> we have seen that threat become geographically dispersed. >> against al-qaida's core, its affiliates, known and unknown, in all corners of the globe. during this hour, we will explore some of the toughest challenges facing our intelligence community and our country. we will talk to people who have spent decades in the shadows and on the front lines on the gravest threats. we will examine the state of al-qaida today, how big of a threat is it? >> my experience was whenever you declare them dead, they prove you wrong.

>> we'll take a look at the c.i.a.'s not-so-secret assassination program. >> we're in a war. and war is hell. >> and, enhanced interrogations. did they lead to osama bin laden? >> the black site that i had visited was probably the grimmest place that i have ever been. >> and then, tracking terror. how do you track a lone wolf. >> there's a whole bunch of things that are technically possible. but do you really want your government doing that? >> and it's not just a movie. two of the actual women in the hunt for bin laden take us inside the cia. >> when you think of oo 7, you don't think of jane bond. you think of james bond.

>> and, last, i'll have my own thoughts on confronting terror today. . >> defining the enemy and understanding the threat. what does al qaeda look like today? it's been called alqaeda 2.0. loosely made up of affiliates and hangs on. who are these smaller organizations? should we be concerned about them? and what about the lone terrorists living in the west quietly plotting another boston bombing. cnn's national surt analyst oversaw the first television interview with osama bin laden

in 1997. his book, "man hunt" is the subject of a new hbo documentary. >> what do you think is the state of al qaeda is today? >> the best answer to that question was what osama bin laden's own assessment of that was. he outlined how much the drones had impacted, you know, his group. he was very aware that the al qaeda brand was in deep trouble. >> former secretary of defense oversaw the united states c campaigns against al qaeda known as the fata. >> i honestly believe that we are safer since 9/11, largely, because of what we've been able

to do going after their core leadership. when i first came into government, there were four key people that were largely running al qaeda. today, three of them are dead and one is in deep hiding, not to mention, a number of other members that what we call ed to leadership. >> former cia analyst who spent a career-racking terror says despite the virtual decapitation for al qaeda's leadership, don't count the word out. >> i get a little nervous when they say you don't have to worry about that anymore. my experience was whenever you declare them dead, they prove you wrong. so i don't want to say they're not hurt. they're not in trouble. but it's too early to let our guard down. >> he's worried about two aspects of al qaeda 2.0.

>> i think what we have to worry about is what i call kind of a metastasized al qaeda, that's moved into other areas, yemen, somalia and mali. we have to continue sto worry about al qaeda being able to establish a foothold in one of these countries a therefore being able to establish a base. >> former c.i.a. counter terrorism says north africa isn't an immediate concern. >> when you look at north africa, do you think this is the next lace to worry about? or do you think this is largely a local struggle? >> i think we do need to be somewhat concerned. but i think we need to be careful of what is a dangerous concern. >> how dangerous are those

franchise operations? we think of mali, we think of somalia. >> in all of these geographies that you've mentioned, yes, there are a small number of international terrorists. but, for the most part, the people who occupy this ungoverned space are local people and have their own concerns. >> if those areas aren't grand threats, peter bergen says there's an offshoot we do have to keep close tabs on. >> in syria, he was saying the most effective fighting force is an al qaeda news organization. they are doing something like groups have never done before. i think this is really a new phenomenon.

you have a militia operating in kind of a political manner, unlike most al qaeda affiliates. how that will play out, we'll see. >> what's already begun to play out, as we saw in boston, is the more immediate, bigger threat to the homeland. >> what we've seen and what concerns us in the last few years is other approaches to creating terror. one of those came from a lock. >> an american-born al qaeda operative known as the bin laden of the internet. >> he was basically urging people anywhere, anyhow, do what you can to be able to go to the

united states and attack the country. i think that kind of inspiration trying to get people to motivate it to have people either self radicalize or do something similar to what we saw in boston. i think that remains a serious concern. >> when you look at boss ton, does that look to you like the new face of terror? >> i really do think that's the case. and, now, what you've got, are these one-offs, very likely, self radicalized vinls coming at us. i'm fond of saying that because of our success, and this is a measure of success, i'm fond of

now saying that future atablgs against our homeland will be less-well organized. less-likely to succeed. they're just going to be more numerous. >> later in our hour, we will ask our experts how to stop the next boston. first up, hitting al qaeda overseas. are we on target with killing terrorists with drones. huh...anybody? julie! hey...guess what day it is?? ah come on, i know you can hear me. mike mike mike mike mike... what day is it mike? ha ha ha ha ha ha! leslie, guess what today is? it's hump day. whoot whoot! ronny, how happy are folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico? i'd say happier than a camel on wednesday. hump day!!! yay!! get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. it's getting expensive. oh yeah. you know the average dinner out for a family of four

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it has been called the shadow war. a war waged not with boots on the ground, but with eyes in the skies. unmanned aerial vehicles, drones, have flown missions, some armed with laser-guided, hair fire missiles. the c.i.a. defense department each runs its own drone department with different levels of transparency. the president made clear that

america's use of drones would be reigned in. >> the same progress that gives us the technology to strike half a world away also demands the discipline to con train that power. >> between 2004 and 2013, the total estimated number of strikes at 428, with 49 under president bush and 379 under president obama. that's almost eight times as many strikes under the obama administration. they estimate the number of militants killed to be between 1,982 and 3,251. the number of civilians between 276 and 368. and unknown casualties, between 200 and 330. the new york times says national security correspondent says to understand the program today,

you have to start at the beginning. >> after 9/11, you see a big change that takes place at the c.i.a.? >> after 9/11, about a week after 9/11, president bush gives the cia authority to basically go around the world and capture and kill al qaeda operatives. >> what is the legality of the drone program? we have president carter's executive order against assassination. and, yet, we have a drone program that seems to assassinate people. >> so the legal authorities given to the c.i.a. and by the justice department, under still-classified memos, are that the c.i.a. can carry out these drone strikes because they've not "assassination" they're military operations on a global battlefield going after military targets.

so you assassinate political leaders, but you kill soldiers on a battlefield. >> the problem is how do you make sure you only kill soldiers on the battlefield? leon pineta, the c.i.a. director says that after an al qaeda target list had been vetted, the decision was ultimately his to take the shot. >> at the time that i was director of the c.i.a., we made very clear that if there were any women and children in the shot, we were not to take it. that we were to only go after those that we knew were identified as targets, and therefore, enemies ot united states. was there some collateral? when you're not sure? sure, there may have been some collateral. but it was minimal. >> former c.i.a. chief says in

recent years, that target list has expanded. >> fair to say that it started when it was being run by you was more narrow, more surgical and more directed against international terrorists? terrorists of global reach? and morphed into something? >> i think that's a fair way to characterize evolution over a period of time. it's very easy to say we just shouldn't be focusing on international terrorists. when we take the next step and start attacking them, we're inviting a lot of trouble. >> it's trouble seen firsthand on the ground in pakistan.

>> because we have the technology and a tactic that works, it's going to be used. there aren't 122 leaders of al qaeda, you know, in the world. skbr i think that's a pretty high cost to pay. >> one recent target in the former u.s. exchange student grew up. the target was a popular figure in the village. he says they did not know he was connected with al qaeda. >> drone strikes in yemen, he says, have become recruiting

tools in al qaeda which sometimes offers compensation to people whose houses have been hit. >> is the drone program out of control? >> no, i don't think so. and it comes back to whatever circumstances you find yourself. targeted killings have enabled us to bring al qaeda prime to the point of destruction. i can think of almost nothing that has kriblted more to the safety of the united states than what we've been able to do to take senior al qaeda leadership of the battlefield. >> he says the government needs to kwhchampk change the way theh it.

>> the issue is political sustainability. my advice is to be as transparent as you can be. >> this program, which you've already described as being unacceptable, is going to have an on-off switch. >> later in this show, how to defend against the next boston-like attack. coming up next, should the united states be in the business of torture? does it yield useful snfgs what if there's a ticking time bomb. we'll find out when we come back. esterol as part of a heart healthy diet. that's true. ...but you still have to go to the gym. ♪ the one and only, cheerios

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welcome back to our gps special "beyond the man hunts." it's called the ticking time bomb scenario. a terrorist is in your custody.

he knows about a bomb. it could go off at any minute. to what lengths would you go to find out where and when? shortly after 9/11, that was the question that emerged as we wrestled with the palpable fear of the unknown. where was bin laden. was there another attack coming? in 2002, the justice department quietly approved the use of enhanced interrogation techniques like water board. flee ye three years later, congress banned the techniques. >> i can say without exception or equivocation that the united states will not torture. >> then, on his second day in office in 2009, president barack

obama signed an executive order out lawing these coercive techniques. all future interrogations had to follow the strict guidelines of the army field manual. so the million dollar question. did coercive techniques lead to osama bin laden? >> the black site that i visited was probably the grimmest place that i've ever been. >> i said we're in business. when you are, for understandable reasons, sequestering people who you believe may have information, actionable information, which if you're able to acquire it, will save lives. >> in your experience, looking at all the information you got,

does it work? is it a useful interrogation, kwh some people call torture, a useful way to get information? >> simply did not work. simply were unavail blg. we acquired a lot of very important intelligence. >> leon pinetta was in charge the day osama bin laden was killed. >> i often get criticized for saying this, but it is a fact that we got information, even though you may not like the approach that was used, the fact is there was information. >> the team that really carried out this mission -- >> but pinetta says the significance of that information is far from cut and dry. >> was it absolutely essential to being able to find bin laden? i'm not sure. i don't think so. i think, frankly, there were a

lot of other bits and pieces of intelligence that we have that we could have ultimately put together the same kind of pattern that we needed in order to track bin laden: but is there information that came from those interrogations? yes, there was. >> one of the people sifting through that intelligence was c.i.a. analyst cindy storm. >> do you think the use of torture was important in getting osama bin laden? >> i have to say that i chose not to be involved in the program from the beginning. i don't have a lot of knowledge about what was done and what came out of it. what do you mean chose not to be involved? >> i just wouldn't do it. i did have to use the information that came back, of course. i think people didn't put it, a lot of times, in the context of what we knew about the larger organization.

and they would just say well, so and so said this. it must be true. and that's a danger. >> i think it really undermines what the united states is all about. we have said to the enemy what we believe is dear can, indeed, be sacrificed because we're scared of them. we're strong. we're proud of what we have. we can make our system work. i think we can balance security and our freedoms. that's what this society is all about. >> the interrogation process is a very human process. >> in the end, he believes the most intragal part of the process has nothing to do with physical pain. >> the most effective tool you have is knowledge. the fact that if you are a suspected terrorist, perhaps a known terrorist who is detained

and you know that in any given instance that you can lie to me with impunity, that is a very, very powerful tool. >> so when the interrogator is able to signal to the prisoner, i know these pieces of information. so if you try to lie to me, i'll know you're lying. >> when the detainee says something and you shake your head and you smile and you say, my friend, do you think i've come all of this way, do you think i'm sitting here with you because i know so little? that can be a very, very powerful thing. >> michael hayden agrees, but says we should also be mindful of the circumstances. >> suppose you had a situation like the boston bombings, except this time, you caught one guy and he was able to talk and you thought there was a ticking time bomb somewhere. do you believe that in those circumstances, torture would be appropriate?

>> torture is never appropriate. it's like asking me do you think murder is appropriate. no, by definition, torture and murder are wrong. now, would i attempt to question that individual beyond the normal practices of massachusetts state police? perhaps. beyond the 19 techniques that are allowed in the army field manual? perhaps. but no one claims, for example, the army field manual exhausts the universe. you need to keep your options available because you can't predict what circumstances you might find yourself in the future. >> we'll go right up to the limes? >> exactly. if i don't, what i'm doing is protecting me and my agency. not america.

>> remember that the u.s. government has mostly stopped using interrogations since 2006 and it's completely stopped since january, 2009. since then, intelligence has been gathered and acted on and several major plots have been thwarted. so can we tackle terrorism without using torture? the answer seems to be we're doing that right now. . up next, targeting the radical lone wolf on our shores. are we on top of this threat? i'm shaq. i wake up cool.

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cool, dry, no mess. stay cool with gold bond. welcome back to our special. al qaeda may be battered, but there's a new threat out there. the lone wolf. one person or a small group, self radicalized and determined to kill. in other words, boston. the cia and fbi are working hard to stop the next would-be-bombers. how do you track a shadow? someone harboring extremist tendencies quietly. someone who might turn violent but isn't yet. the former director of the c.i.a., general michael hayden, says the united states is

continually calibrating the balance. frankly, we've made those up here. the ones about which we're very fearful. we've made them very, very unlikely. now we've got these. these one-off attacks. i asked american audiences what do you want me to do with my hand? i don't know how much more safety i'll buy you, but there will be more safety. but how much more of your commerce, your privacy or do your convenience do you want me to squeeze for a marginal increase in safety. and, as a citizen -- as an intelligence professional, i'll follow the guidance of the republic. but as a citizen, i'm thinking my hand is about at the right place now. i don't know that we need to do

a whole lot more. now, the secret within that is that sooner or later, some of this stuff is going to happen. and we all have to recognize that there is going to be a margin of risk that we're going to have to live with now. >> so describe what it would mean to push that hand down? i mean, you've ran the national security agency, this super secret spy agency with what many people believe is the largest budget to do all the technological data gathering. could you' eavesdrop on conversations on a much grander scale? >> with technologies available now, of course you could be more invasive. i was the one that installed the terrorist agency.

>> it was about international calls that we have reason believe are affiliated with al qaeda. even there, we realized we had to be very careful. very selective. this couldn't be this broad net. >> i asked a former f.b.i. special agent. >> so you look at spg like inspire magazine, that contained within it the instructions of how to build these pressure cooker bombs. should the united states government be trying to shut down these web sites? >> i think it's not the issue of feasibility. you know, it's very hard to regulate the internet. we have thousands of sites that

promote islamic extremism. they basically spend a lot of times on these sites and monitor their travel pattern and their communications. put them together and create a kind of a profile. >> needed to do almost the impossible. sort out the radical muslims not prone to violence and those that could turn into terrorists. >> it's a very difficult thing to detect when an individual's motive are people are self radicalizing. that keep step to then make the

decision that i'm going to act on this and i'm going to act violently on this. often, it is only apparent in hindsight. to have a sort of relationship with immigrant communities, muslim relationships within the u.s. which conveys to them that we are not cstigmatizing you asa community. we are all in this together. >> leon panetta is a former director of the c.i.a. >> we've learned a lot since 9/11 on basically how we're trying to get ahead.

intelligence is a key here. that's what can really target you where these threats are. i think it can be done. after all, if you look at the last 10 or 11 years since 9/11, we have been able to prevent attacks. >> coming up next, in putting together this special, i couldn't help but notice how many women were critical in the intelligence hunt for bin laden. so, next, we asked a somewhat dimplt question. are women better at this game than men? when we come back. introducing bbm video with screen share. hey aleigh. hey! carol! update on 171 woodward.....

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and now, for something kbleetly different. in the hit series "homeland" claire danes plays a cia agent on the trail of an al qaeda terrorist. sounds a lot like the name maya

in "zero dark thirty" right? and in real life, it turns out that many of the officers in the hunt for bin laden were women. the first person who wrote the first assessment? a woman. so it got me wondering. do women make better spies or analysts than men? are they in some ways more suited to this kind of work? >> do you think there's any significance to the fact that so many of the people who hunted bin laden down were women? >> and we'll confirm you're right. this was a band of sisters. two of the stirs were killed at coast. both wonderful aufrgss. both had briefed me.

they were phenomenal. they were obsessed. they were focused. >> somebody said to me, you know, there's all of these macho guys out there. but you wouldn't want these women after you because they're relentless. >> they were absolutely relent es. and free. this is a decades-long hunt. they were back there in the day, prior to 9/11. in fact, in that opening line from "homeland" where carrie mutters i missed something at that day, i think a lot of people were animated by the fact that that event had taken place. and now they wanted to set things right. they really were focused on this. >> for the next step, mada was a

targeter of the leader of al qaeda in iraq. and cindy was one of the first analysts to focus on bin laden. >> do you think there's something that women bring to this kind ofl work that is helpful? >> i do. very few and far between. >> so let me make a crude generalization. women are more patient they are slightly complex. men are eager to shoot first and ask questions later. does all of that seem a little bit closer? >> what we know and what we find sacred, i think, versus men and

the offensive position where we take up the defensive position. >> you think there are certain advantages women have in terms of getting people to talk to you? >> i do. they're less threatening. they can come off as more maternal. i think they do have an advantage. i think you think of james bond, not jane bond. >> you worked at the agency for a long time. was it difficult being a woman? what was it like for you in what we all think of as a very male place. >> i never felt over-discrimination except where i touched military issues.

and then the men would have this sort of instinctive reaction or maybe a programmed reaction. and then you can get them and it was okay. but then there would be that moment where you can say i do know about this. >> watching the movie, "man hunt," the documentary, might have given people the impression that you were maya in "zero dark thirty" would that be accurate? >> is there a maya? >> i'm very proud of all of them. i think they did do an amazing job.

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we've taken you on a journey to see the new face of terror. we've heard from the top-most officials who have fought this battle. the women who tracked osama bin laden and those who attracted you to suspected terrorists. i thought i owed you my own conclusions based on what i've seen and heard. >> first, al qaeda. ablg and then the attack and then the world trade center is a shadow of its former self. it has become a franchise organization. in my reading of them, local concerns seemed paramount.

americans aumpb forget no afghan was involved in 9/11. >> third, al qaeda was not crippled by magic but through the hard work of counter terrorism by many governments across many regions. fourth, the boston bombings have reminded us that the war on terror is one that has to be fought at home as well. but how to find the next group of misfits who have no background with terrorists, who might get radicalized over the

internet and who will go from talking radicalism the next day to plotting one next. we can't identify every one of news perspective terrorists no matter how well we do. the people across the united states will tell you, the best to ten shl terrorists comes from their communities, which often means, in these times, muslim communities. so we need eyes on the groumpbd. friendly relations with imams and other leaders. most recently, a canadian plot was thwarted with just this kind of sbel jenls. the war on terror began as a granld enterprise involving major war. it seems to have evolved into police work. a final point, not a thought, but some facts.

the national counter terrorism center released its annual report last june. it showed that terrorist attacks, worldwide, had dropped by 20% from '10 and down by 29% since 2011. the region looegs likely to suffer was north america. the most comp rehence studies show that terrorism was declining, even in 2001. and it dropped even more sharply after 9/11. here's peter bergen again putting it in some perspective.

>> i hope this special report has helped you think about the future of terrorism more rationally. thank you for watching. ♪