and chose westminster abbie for his crowning on christmas day of that year. the building we see today having been constructed over centuries. the famous chair, however, wasn't constructed until the 14th century under king edward i. i thought my chair was old. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. stay tuned for "reliable sources. "the huffington post" called it an apology tour. eric hoeder meeting with washington executives and many rejecting the invitation because he insisted they be off the record. department full records and e-mail involving fox news and ap now trying to use the press for damage control. >> embattled attorney general eric holder sitting down this

afternoon with members of the news media to talk about the justice department investigation into leaks that led to susubpoenas for phone records and more. but cnn and other news organizations are declining to attend the meeting because it is, "off the record." >> off the record or just off the wall. attorney general eric holder is inviting to an off the record. but many are not taking him up on it. >> if holder thinks the justice department went too far against reporters doing their jobs why doesn't he say so publicly? we just confirmed that friday's deadly tornadoes in oklahoma claimed the lives of three storm chasers. one who worked with the discovery channel and two weather reporters wrecked their car in a close call. is covering these storms just getting too risky? two media outlets say they saw rob ford smoking crack. >> we were showing a shocking video. the video, which appears to be

real showed mayor rob ford in a room, his shirt open lulling back in his chair and appears to be smoking a crack pipe. >> the mayor denies it calling ju journalists a bunch of maggots. someone is peddling for $200,000. we'll ask the manager of toronto's largest newspaper. katie couric says what she really thinks of matt lauer. i'm howard kurtz and this is "reliable sources." we've all seen reporters standing outside in hurricanes and blizzards, but, lately, weather reporting seems to have taken a more dangerous turn when a second round of deadly tornadoes struck oklahoma on friday two got in their car and the result a harrowing close call and left mike bettes and a

colleague badly shaken. on the weather channel, he was asked what he thought about when he ran into danger. >> good question, dave. >> i know it's tough. i just saw my wife's face. and i thought, you know, that's, you know, that's my life. i don't want to give that up just yet. >> and then there are the storm chasers. the citizen thrill seekers who sometimes sell picture and information to news outlets. cnn confirming this morning that three of them died on friday while pursuing the tornado in oklahoma city. they are tim samaras who worked with "storm chasers" and paul samaras and carl young. very sad news. joining us now to talk about the risk of covering extreme weather in oklahoma by phone and here in

washington. chad myers, you face these questions all the time when extreme weather comes up. how much risk does a journalist take in order to get close to a storm that could be deadly? >> we all know this is difficult and dangerous and sometimes things go wrong, but i think people portray tim as a chaser out for thrills. it's just the wrong thing. you weren't. i just want people to know that tim was a scientist and he was out there to put probes out there and he was out there to learn and understand and to make science more understandable with this storm and a tornado itself and to get more data so that people could -- so the national weather service, noaa, could get better warnings. we all go out there and try to protect the public. but tim had a very hard morning. you can hear it in my voice, i'm sure.

>> since samaras has an engineering background. what a tragedy he was killed with his son. >> there's no other -- tim, tim would never put himself in danger. certainly wouldn't put his son in danger and to get left turned by that storm or right turned. they don't know where he was. but that was a very dangerous storm to chase. we knew it. we saw chasers just in pickup trucks driving into the tornado. we were looking at him and we're on live tv and, where are these guys going? where are these people driving to because the tornado is forming right there and so many people got too close at times as it -- it didn't start as an ef-1 almost. it started as a multi-vortex, large tornado and people were under it when it started. we were about seven miles away.

we were in a perfectly safe position and i'm sure tim was, too. he wanted to put the little probes out. what this multi-vortex means and how to better forecast a large tornado dropping straight out of the storm. not starting as a 70-mile-per-hour dust devil. >> let me turn, in 1999 it was a storm in moore, which was also recently hit. you interviewed people and talk about the media's role in this. >> it's like covering a war zone. there is an important role for the media and they're doing a public service. i went into the aftermath of the storm and an elderly gentleman took me into what was his home and it was completely torn down and he showed me his ez chair which was maybe 50 yards away and he was telling me how he was sitting in his condominium watching the radar from all the weather channels when all of a sudden he realized the thing was getting really close. he said, oops, i better get in

the car. he went and raced himself ahead of the tornado. so, he believes the weatherman saved his life. so, it plays a role. i mean, the media play a role in warnings. they play a role in assessing the damage because they fly the helicopters because then in turn s -- >> you were seven miles away from this killer storm. can you really be perfectly safe in that kind of situation? is it journalism and desire to be near the action that leads meteorologists and journalists and correspondents and weather channel people to try to get as close as possible or just really good television? >> we all know where to be on a tornado that moves through the northeast. we all want to be to the southeast of the storm. we want to be where the air is clear. it's not even raining. there's no hail and you want to look into the storm from the southeast to the northwest. great pictures. that's where the definition is. the tornado will be dark. the sky will be light.

great pictures on television. yes, that's where we want to be. this storm was different. this storm put down a tornado, a very large, multi-vortex and powerful tornado and lost that vortex and turned to the left and another tornado actually developed right behind us. we had driven another ten miles away from the storm and another tornado sat down not less than a mile. later on in the day, 15 minutes later, another tornado was on the ground 15 miles west of there that was heading back to us. >> just underscoring, just underscoring how dangerous these assignments can be and you're often in the middle of that, chad myers. appreciate you calling in from oklahoma. we have to get to a break. when we come back, eric holder trying to meet with the media and make amends and not everyo everyone. [ chirp ] all good? [ chirp ] getty up.

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"new york times" said no so did associated press, cnn, huffington post all turned down invitations from eric holder to discuss using subpoenas and search warrants to go over journalists in leak investigations. >> attend eric holder's off the record briefing. >> in the middle of a huge national controversy to have the attorney general interact with

journalists and have it supposedly secret. >> fox's alert seconds ago. we saw what we believe are journalists headed into the justice department and a new round of meetings aimed at containing a political firestorm over the doj spying on reporters. >> as you saw not everybody blew off the invite. he did hold with "washington post" "usa today" bloomberg, "new york daily news" "wall street journal" and "new yorker." some journalists felt free to describe the meeting in general terms. >> we expressed our concerns that reporters felt some fear for doing their jobs. that they were concerned about using their e-mail and concerned about using their office telephones and that we need to have the freedom to do our jobs. >> but what exactly did the news organizations get out of such off the record meetings when the attorney general is facing calls for his resignation.

joining us from san francisco deborah saunders and dana mill bank and with us louise from politico. should the news organizations have refused to sit down with eric holder because he's saying you can't report what is going on in the meets? >> a useful dialogue that had to happen. i don't fault anybody for going or not going. people had to do what they needed to do. i just don't understand the justice department's thinking on this. i mean, we're dealing with a very serious press issue at a time when transparency is essential. why have them off the record when you know they're not going to stay off the record? they're never going to stay off the record. >> the rules were a little relaxed. dana millbank. from the journalist point of view, i don't see what you get out of it if you can sit and get the benefit of the attorney general's thinking and you can't tell your readers. you can't tell your viewers.

>> i can confirm megan kelly's reports, those were actual journalists. i believe they were. easy to mistake, but i believe they were. look, i don't think there's anything to fault the journalists who went to this or didn't go to this. i don't think it's an obvious decision one way or the other. the justice department was saying, they're just there to collect ideas, which was undermined by the fact that they were trying to keep the reporters lawyers from coming, who could actually give them some legal ideas. there is a danger they're going to be used as a prop in this sort of circumstance and it's very clear that holder had nothing to say about it. he's not committing to what he's going to do in terms of the regulations. he's given one on the record interview. that's the problem. >> you asked him for an interview this week and the answer was -- >> he would not give me an interview. he gave one, which appeared to be a very vague one and he did not say anything. not saying what he wants to do in terms of the regulations. >> the journalist who decided that they just could not bear to

go to an off the record session did they protect journalists in these leak investigations by sitting down with the nation's top law enforcement officer? >> well, kudos to cnn and fox news and the "new york times" and "huffington post" and ap for not going because they wanted to say, they didn't want to be part of this pageant. now, i understand why journalists said yes and they agreed to go. but, first of all, it's not the department of justice doesn't understand what journalists think about what they're doing. this has been an unnecessary incursion, an invasive look at reporters basically trying to keep people away from reporters and hurting. so, you could go if you want to find out something, but it doesn't look like anybody learned anything because when you saw what the attendees said about what they heard, they came out basically repeating the same codes, you know, the words that we have been hearing for days now. guidelines. like you need a guideline to tell you not to do something

that other administrations haven't done. we need balance. you know what really bothers me about this. this fox news thing with james rosen. when you read the affidavit by the fbi agent it is so clear that they knew who the leaker was. thought they knew. mr. kim, i don't know if he hasn't been -- >> but the point is, the journalist was described as a potential co-conspirator, which many people view as criticizing journalism. >> and it could get up to ten years. it said it in the affidavit, that was the punishment. they knew this guy kim, if you go by what it said, was the leaker. why did they have to go after him? >> let me just jump in and say -- let me just jump in and say -- the former state department official has been indicted in this case, but certainly not convicted. now, "daily beast" piece in which they were quoted as saying when eric holder read the

"washington post" story he wrote the story that he felt remorse about this. again, not willing to say that publicly. >> well, i don't think they've done enough to explain what their thinking was on this, but i don't know that he, seeing this in print probably was a stark awakening and seeing how it was couched. but, nublonetheless, it's beyon comprehension how they used an act, the espionage act that was shot down in 1971 in one of the most famous cases and as deborah said tried to call james rosen co-conspirator for doing his job. >> let's talk about the culture of washington. i wonder whether you think, dana milbank, those who have turned down the meets were getting sanctimonious. don't reporters go to off the record sessions all the time. president bush held them, president obama has held them, every white house has these background briefings. every phone call, half the phone call conversation washington began, you didn't get this from

me or you can't use this unless i agree. suddenly with holder, it is like, i am just shocked -- >> controversy during the bush administration is the president tried to have an off the record barbecue at his ranch down in waco and we could report on what food was served but not on the type of conversation. sure, this is a perennial issue and i don't think there is a right or wrong. times off the record and i don't think this is a clear case of this. this is just a clear case of the justice department and eric holder with a self-inflicted injury. this is something he didn't have to have happen. a lot of stupid accusations leveled against him and the justice department every day. this one is very real. he didn't have to have it happen and he, he and the white house have really lost a lot of good will and a lot of benefit of the doubt among journalists in the other cases, too. >> deborah, republicans or some of them, i should say, are making the case that eric holder lied to congress when he testified just a couple weeks ago before we knew the full

details of some of these cases that he was not in favor of potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material. all the story about his job is on the line and he's fighting to save his job, by the way, "new york times" this morning this is how these things are done here in the beltway. some of the west wing in the white house privately telling associates they wish eric holder would step aside. are the media making too much of not the issue, which is a critically important issue, but whether or not holder is really in danger of losing his job? >> well, i think holder is in danger of losing his job, eventually. >> so the story is not overblown in your view. >> no. i may well have said yes to this invitation. i'm not sanctimonious about it. i'm sanctimonious about a lot of other things. that's what columnists do. did you read this affidavit you signed? did you know what you were doing? i'm not getting any answers on

that. the idea that journalists went there to tell him what he thinks is as if the department of justice doesn't know. that's sort of ridiculous. you go there to find out what you can about what they were thinking and learn who did what. >> right, we're short on time. let me get you both in on this. "washington post" reporter the 80-year-old dean of national security was wired and one who raised questions about the march war in iraq said the media are overblowing this. when will journalists shout the first amendment is under attack. is there an a element here because this is our business of us telling basically one side of the story, the first amendment side without really a giving adequate consideration to the fact that the government is trying to protect classified information in some of these cases. >> i don't think it's overblown at all. the government has every right to protect classified information but journalists haven't signed an oath not to give out this information. >> it's not geagainst the law t receive this information.

maybe illegal to leak it. >> pursuing more leak -- >> the leaker is fair game in my view, but i don't think the media is fair game. >> go ahead, debra, briefly. >> they basically wrote they thought they knew who the leaker was, so, why did they have to check all the records of rosen when they seem to think they had it nailed already? >> lots of questions. not a lot of answers at this point. when we come back, michele bachmann and msnbc steps up with plenty of ridicule. why liberal commentators may miss kicking her around. hey america, even though she doesn't need them,

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michele bachmann announced she isn't running for eelection. she claimed she wouldn't get fair from the press. >> put a detrimental spin on my decision not to seek a fifth term. they always seem to attempt to find a dishonest way to disparage me.

>> the one news channel used the occasion to mock the minnesota republican, msnbc. >> it is easy to not just dismiss michele bachmann, but to enjoy michele bachmann as the sort of living, breathing embodiment of the crazy in american politics. >> i think she represented a strain of elected officials who don't feel like they need to actually do anything once elected into office. >> it was a wild ride. but through it all, one thing stayed the same, bachmann never stopped embarrassing herself and her party. >> she got a lot of things wrong and often refused to correct them. that's fair game. but is she crazy? >> well, first of all, we know that when she announced she is retiring, there is a national day of mourning among fact checkers in the journalism business. it was the gift that kept on giving. she said a number of things that were wrong, including in the 8 1/2 minute video where she

said she is basically getting out because she feels it is time and it has nothing to do with her chances of being re-elected and she's not credible. but, you know, journalism feels like junior high sometimes and the way that we make fun of her, we're like the mean girls in junior high in journalism with her. and she feeds off of it and we keep, you know, she gives it to us and we give it back and i don't think we look real good. >> let's try to elevate this to the high school level. you interview michele bachmann, she won that iowa straw poll and on the cover of "newsweek" famous photo making her -- you talk to legislation in issues. you think she gets a fair shake from the press? >> i think that the coverage of her rise was very legitimate because, it was excessive, but it was legitimate because she spoke for a segment of the population at that point in history. therefore, i think coverage of

her fair and her air aers are legitimate. i don't think we should ridicule anyone. >> she would make mistakes claiming that the hpv vaccine. >> i requested a moment of silence, but, you know, i actually disagree to the extent that i think michele bachmann should be thanking the press. we created her. we're the reason she's not one of 400 other people in the house whose names we don't know and never will know and she played the press just right. sure, it was full of ridicule and sure it was full of fun and that the revolutionary war started in concord, new hampshire. that's terrific stuff and whether she was doing it deliberately and oft aen, she made her name through the press and it worked very well for her. >> waiting a long time for that, thanks. i want to turn now to the irs scandal and the conservative

website "daily call "reporting the other day that doug shulman had visited the white house 157 times over four years during the obama administration more than any other cabinet officers and writing "strongly suggest coordination by white house officials in the campaign against president's political opponents." that spawned a number of television segments like this one. >> an investigation by the "daily caller" said the scandal has deeper ties to the white house than we originally thought. here's why. according to the report, "publicly released records show that embattled commissioner douglas shulman visited the white house at least 157 times during the obama administration. more recorded visits than even the most trusted members of the president's cabinet." they were for, by in large, meetings on obama care. so, in a scandal sometimes

something sounds really suspicious and some media outlets jump on it, a little too quickly at times. >> this is one of the liabilities of our 24/7 cycle and one of the more famous cases is poor shirley sharrod. decided to write one snippet of a tape and it ruined her career and got her fired. >> this was not inaccurate -- >> but the spin was. >> deborah saunders, at the same time, the administration didn't immediately clarify what those visits were for, but was this a little too overheated in suggesting, insinuating, implying that it was reinvolved in the white house complex. >> "the atlantic" had written that he was approved for visits through security. >> you don't always go, even if you've been cleared by secret service. >> that's correct. >> but, you know, let me just say mr. shulman, you should check things out.

i hope fox will have the segment where they look at how many visits there were. we don't know the answer. could have been as few as 11 and as many as 100. i hope they take a look at that. mr. shulman crontributed to thi because when he was in congress and he gave the answer about taking his kids to an easter egg hunt. i think that was sort of like waving the red flag and that's one of the reasons why the conservative media jumped on this. >> hard to know, dana, in the midst of an investigation where something like that would turn out to be a significant breakthrough or not much of anything at all. >> i think this is just plain shotty reporting. the white house voluntarily started putting these things out there. much of this had been out in a congressional hearing before this report came out p. this was out there in the public domain and then they took what's out there in the public domain

and made some outrageous inference as if they knew what happened. that is crazy. >> crazy? >> crazy. >> thanks for going, stopping by to go over these various topics here in washington. up next, the mayor of toronto denies smoking crack even as news outlets chase a video that show him doing just that. we'll talk to the editor of tornauto toron toronto's largest newspaper about this bizarre tale. s have o everywhere with it. get in the front. we drive. it was so embarrasing that we just wanted to say, well, go away. shoo bear. but we can't really tell bears what to do. moooooommmmmm!!! then one day, it was just gone. mom! [announcer] you are how you sleep. tempur-pedic. i tthan probablycare moreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years.

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the mayor of toronto rob ford denies ever having smoked crack. but two media outlets say there is a cell phone video of him doing just that. he has seen the video, as do two journalists at "the toronto sun." >> the man in the video appears stumbling, seems incoherent, he rambles. >> but no one has produced this video and while several of the top aides have now resigned, ford has lashed out at the media and continues to deny the allegations. >> mayor ford, is that you in the gawker video and is that you photographed with your arm

around drug dealer anthony smith? >> number one, there's no video. so, that's all i can say. you can't comment on something that doesn't exist. and i take pictures of everybody. everywhere i go. >> but the canadian press continues to dog the mayor at every turn as we saw again at a news conference on thursday. >> i look forward to hiring new staff as soon as possible. thank you very much. anything else? >> the "toronto globe" drug involvement by the mayor's relatives. i spoke earlier with john stackhouse, the paper's editor. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> is it uncomfortable to report on a video that your newspaper hasn't seen? >> it's certainly awkward and,

yes, it's uncomfortable. most journalists like to see things first hand, so, it's been awkward. many elements of this story are relying either on second-hand information or anonymous sources in the case of some of the major investigative work we've done. >> and on that point, let me come to the "globe" and mail story that has generated some controversy. for those of you not following this, your paper reported that two of mayor rob ford's brothers were involved in the drug trade and you say to readers that you've been investigating this since late 2011. so, first of all, why did you not publish the story until after this video or reports of this video surfaced? >> well, we knew all along that it was explosive and we had to ensure that our information was rock solid. we interviewed and reinterviewed and actually had our lawyers sit in on some interviews with sources. we wanted a significant number of independent sources, ones who had never heard of each other or

certainly talked to each other and that is what took so long to corroborate. >> but would you have pulled the trigger on the story had there not been this explosion over reports about a video in which the mayor of your city is seen, allegedly, pruportedly smoking. >> because of the so-called video we thought it was imperative to accelerate the publication of the story and we got it out the next weekend. >> the brother of the mayor, doug ford, city counselor, sold hash back in the 1980s. why reports from so long ago and why does that reflect on the mayor necessarily? >> it's a fair question. it was not just a single sale or a recreational use of drugs, which is how he's tried to dismiss it. this was over a period of seven years. it was an active commercial

operation. it was known to many people in the community and it extended through his other brother, randy, in the 1990s. we thought this reflected on the family and material given the family's political stand on drug trade in toronto. doug has been a leading advocate of greater police efforts to stamp out the drug trade in toronto. we thought it was important for the people of toronto to know his own background. >> what has been the reaction among some of the public, i understand, has been a little bit of a backlash against your paper in some corners. >> absolutely. it's exploded. a good number of people in toronto and well beyond who are outraged that we would rely on anonymous sources. they've raised questions, as you did, about the relevance of something that happened a number of decades ago. and there's an equal, if not

greater number of people, i don't know how one measures this. but significant number of people who are shocked andppalled that lead in public figures in toronto would have this sort of association allegedly with the drug trade. >> now, mayor rob ford and his brother have not been shy about pushing back against the media. i want to play for you something from a radio show they did. i'm sure you heard it before. let's play it for the viewers. >> i think it's -- 80%, well, 80% of them are nasty sons of a gun. >> maggots. >> what is your reaction being called a bunch of maggots by the mayor of toronto? >> that was the mayor saying that unfortunate term. he is a guy who shoots his mouth off, has for as long as he has been in public life. that's why people love him and support him. he came out the next day and apologized to the media.

and, you know, i accept that apology and feel he was saying that in the heat of the moment. >> right. >> but he doesn't like the media, generally, that's, i think that's well established. >> i got that very clearly from watching even that brief snippet of videotape. now, on this elusive, alleged crack smoking, cell phone video. the website gawker has raised $200,000 from its readers to try to buy this from the source that's peddling it. does that checkbook journalism cause you any concern? >> oh, yeah. this has raised all sorts of ethical debates among canadians. but somehow we have to establish whether this video does exist and somehow get it on the public record or at least into police hands and they can, they can scrutinize it appropriately. >> will your newspaper pay for it? >> would we pay for it?

no. >> because? >> well, we're not going to pay drug dealers, and that is what is believed, those are the pe people believed to be in possession. >> fascinating, fast-moving story we'll keep an eye on and i'm sure your newspaper will, as well. john stackhouse, thank you for joining us. after the break, no ordinary layoff "chicago sun-times" fires its entire staff of photographers. we'll talk to john h. white who has been there for 35 years. uh? guess what day it is! huh...anybody? julie! hey...guess what day it is?? ah come on, i know you can hear me. mike mike mike mike mike... what day is it mike? ha ha ha ha ha ha! leslie, guess what today is? it's hump day. whoot whoot! ronny, how happy are folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico? i'd say happier than a camel on wednesday.

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...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. newspaper errors so common these days, they hardly qualify as news. what happened at "chicago sun-times" is dramatically different. they fired their entire photo staff, 20 full-time employees. among those let go is john white. i spoke to him this morning from chicago. welcome. >> thank you. >> what was your reaction when you learned that all of you and

your colleagues were getting the boot? >> well, we're news people. we cover the news every day and we are, we always expect unexpected. this wasn't expected for us. we are human. we're hurt. but we know that the sun shine above the clouds and that journalism is not dead. it's very much alive. and that as long as there's people who, there will be the need for photo journalists. >> journalism is not dead. but journalism at "chicago sun-times" will have a set back. you were recorded the other day saying your assignment came from god. talk about what you meant. >> i would like to think that i and my colleagues before people could read and write, there were the visuals. there will always be the visuals. the universal language that

everybody understands. i could get a raindrop and i could be the eyes for people. they can get it through my every time i capture a moment it's timeless. it's forever. it's like a light. it cannot be contained. so we are this visual service that has been behind the camera doing this work on a daily basis from birth to death, everything in between. we cry more than we laugh, but we are there for people. we are their eyes. the body is made of many parts. they are all significant. the eyes are more important but that's what we do. >> that's a very touching description. i'm struck when you talk about life and death and everything in between. in addition to the fact that you are a prize-winning

photographer, you see yourself as a storyteller for the people of chicago. >> i see myself as their eyes, not only for the people of chicago but the world. chicago is the greatest playground in the world. visual playground. chicago is the greatest city. great institutions that are teaching digital photo journalism and multimedia but the world is bigger than chicago. and we are a servant for the world. think of an image, say boston or 911. it's the visual. for a lot of people 100 years from now on a connection with history. >> right. >> vision stirrings. >> those images tend to be indelible. >> they want to concentrate on video and training reporters to use iphones. can that replace what people like you and your colleagues do? >> well, i think -- you think of the ingredients that goes in to a photojournalist, passion,

skills, instincts. these are things -- you can't take someone who fills prescription bottles and have them do your heart surgery. >> i can't put it any better than that. >> one thing for sure. >> it is an art as you were saying. >> yeah. but you have to understand that those whose visions and values are different can't extinguish the light of hope. one of the great things about the photojournalists is the photojournalists out there every day and we live by that four-letter word which is the greatest word in the world, love. we -- being there is lamp light to the world. sometimes the photograph is being there. it says you are concerned. everybody has a story. it is a privilege.

it's a privilege. it's a great honor to be a photojournalist. it is a great honor. >> i'm sorry for the bad news but it so nice to end on an uplifting note. john white, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you. >> really moving description of his life's work. still to come, doonesbury creator gets a thumbs up from amazon and katie couric dishes with none other than howard stern. the "media monitor" is straight ahead. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life. vo: living better: that's the real walmart. the next day, we sprayed febreze air effects

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time for the media monitor where we look at the hits and errors in the business. gary trudeau was on the program to talk about a pilot episode for amazon starring john goodman and bill miry. he said he was a tad reluctant to take the plunge. >> it wasn't something that appeal to me enormously and i thought about it. given the capability amazon has for capturing nuanced data, the process gives them more

information about whether or not they should be making the show. it is transparent, democratic, rational, not just people with gut feelings and executive towers in l.a. >> well, the viewers have spoken. amazon picked up his alpha house along with four video series. maybe his appearance here had something to do with it. it took a while but katie couric confirmed a story i told you about that she was exploring the idea of launching a daytime program with matt lauer and considered returning to "the today show" for a time to team up with her old pal. the question of a daytime partnership came up on her show while she was chatting with howard stern. >> now, is it true -- >> wait, a second. >> i have one question. >> okay. what? >> it is true when you were putting this show together that you wanted to coanchor the show with matt lauer. it was going to be called katie and matt. >> we had discussed it, sort of

theoretically. because we did -- we have a great relationship, i think. we have a lot of fun because we enjoy each other and i think that matt's funny and he thinks i'm funny. >> off great chemistry is what you are saying. did the two of you ever make love. >> yeah. a few times. >> that's a yes. i thought so. >> no. you are so weird, howard. no. >> i told you. >> i have to learn to ask questions like. that stern wasn't satisfied. howard wanted to know more and couric returned the favor by dropping by his show. >> katie swears she never had anything doing with matt. >> i had a crush on matt when he was a local news anchor at w nbc because i thought he was so funny. >> former cbs evening news anchor handled the interrogation well and katie's show is doing fine with a solo host. that's it for this edition of reliable sources.

if you missed our program check us out on itunes. search for reliable sources in the itunes store. we are back next sunday morning for another critical look at the media. state of the union with candy crowley begins right now. benghazi, the irs and the reach of eric holder's justice department. feels like a long hot summer. today, in the face of unanswered questions and the gathering of new information on a variety of fronts, congress readies another round of hearings, as promised. >> this hearing is closed, but this investigation is not over. >> our sunday exclusive with the man leading the charge, congressman darrell issa, chairman of the house oversight committee. then, guns and mental health, the rocky road to immigration reform and changing times. women are the major breadwinners in 40% of american households with children at home. our potpourri discussion with