fights for a lung transplant. and now we're hearing she's not alone. the moment the military blew up one of its own. plus, a valedictorian stuns the crowd in the middle of his speech. >> our father, who art in heaven -- >> this young man tells me live why he decided to break the rules. and a man fathers 22 kids with 14 different women. >> i was just young and ambitious and i love women. >> he's being sued and even the judge has trouble keeping track. >> william and johnson, different johnson. >> we're on the case. i'm brooke baldwin. you're watching cnn. you may have heard him, right

here on cnn, the president saying, no, the government is not listening in on your phone calls. this is his first response to this outcry over the government data mining story that erupted late wednesday. he took a question on the matter while in california today. and he answered, for nearly ten minutes. here he was, the president. >> i came in, with a healthy skepticism about these programs. my team evaluated them. we scrubbed them thoroughly. we actually expanded some of the oversight, increased some of the safeguards. but my assessment and my team's assessment was that they help us prevent terrorist attacks. but i think it is important to recognize that you can't have

100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenien inconvenience. we're going to have to make some choices. >> so that is the word straight from the president. keep in mind, since last time we met, right here, this time yesterday, we have now heard this second government data mining effort. the calls and questions are eroding the sense of privacy. we'll go there in a moment. straight to jessica yellin, our chief white house correspondent. you were out there traveling with the president and so, jessica, ironically enough, we need to point out the president is in california, eventually this evening, to meet with the leader of china. and to press allegations of chinese hacking against the united states. obviously, though, the president found it necessary to take that final question after talking about the health care and trying to tamp down the emotions surrounding this huge story.

>> reporter: it is an interesting juxtaposition that the president is pressing china about their own cyberattacks when looked at through a certain lens you can say the federal government is doing its own cyberintrusion into u.s. corporations to get data about people that they're concerned about. i want to read you something, just listen to this for a moment. quote, we do not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval, and this government will continue to guard the privacy of the american people. who do you think that was? that was george bush in 2006, defending his nsa surveillance program. and i would argue that it should not come as a surprise that the president while he says he's putting in new safeguards, et cetera, has continued that program in its -- in the larger sense, because he voted to continue the law authorizing it. he broke with hillary clinton in his fierce defense of it in

2008. and he's been an aggressive defender of these kinds of programs during his time in office. he did make clear, i'll say, brooke, that congress has oversight of this, and the courts do, but we should point out that the details of this are only shared in classified settings in a way where the public cannot find out about them. so it is a very small set of people who have known about it until now. >> yeah, mentioning congressional oversight a number of times when he spoke today and the federal judges and the audit process. you know and i know, our viewers know these go back -- >> reporter: classified settings. >> yes, seven years. jessica yellin, thank you very much. this is the second surveillance program that is now coming to light. two respected papers, "the washington post," london's "guardian," they say the nsa and fbi are acquiring personal data of nonamericans, via nonleading internet firms. see them here on your screen. so now we know. it is not just phone records which we talked about yesterday in depth, but also photographs.

and e-mails. although, let me stress again, the government says it does not access americans' online data, just that of nonamericans suspected, you know, bad guys, a big point to remember here. remarkable here is how well intentioned and thoughtful individuals are seeing this matter in dramatically different ways. with us now from new york, noted several rights attorney alan dershowitz. from dallas, ben ferguson, host of ben ferguson radio show. you were with us yesterday, back for day two. let me defer to alan dershowitz, good professor on this one. alan, this is my first question. we asked you on piers morgan last night. and one thing you said that struck me was we need to take a deep breath before we overreact. we don't know what's going on here. isn't that part of the problem, professor, we don't know what's going on? we don't know what we don't know, to quote you, and we think we know what's happening, but that may really jus be the tip of the iceberg?

you with me? >> yes. it is democracy. you have to know what you don't know. and sometimes we're prepared to give up our ability to know something in order to keep secrets from our enemies. remember today, anything we know they know. the great tragedy is that the story was broken by a man named glen greenwalt from the guardian. he's an american barbshbasher. he hates america. he says a little terrorism is not a bad thing. it is like being struck by lightning. he doesn't even approve of the use of the word terrorism. he says terrorism is an excuse for allowing america and america's allies to use our own state terrorism. he's the worst possible person to begin this debate. we need nuance, we need calibration. we need, as the president correctly said, to be willing to compromise with some privacy, and some convenience, as long as we have oversight, as long as it doesn't go too far, as long as we limit it to gathering general information and when we get

particularized information we need to have a warrant. we need to reduce the secrecy that our courts operate under, but let's not let glen greenwalt and his -- the entire american group push us into a paranoia. this is not watergate. he makes it sound like the president is doing this in order to get political information. >> ben ferguson is laughing. ben, jump in. >> this is a classic example of attack the person who gave us legitimate information, make him into a terrorist-loving un-american human being and then just discredit who he is as a person when the reality is what he reported on is factually correct and accurate. you didn't say that anything he reported on was factually correct or accurate. >> a lot of it is inaccurate. >> let me say this, though. you look at what has come forward on this, as a american citizen, do i have the right to not have to worry about search and seizure of information that i am using whether it be the

internet, e-mail, or my phone records, without probable cause from the government? the last i checked, the constitution says that i have and every american should have a legitimate right to not have to worry about the government coming in and data mining my entire existence that has now been reported to the american people. and that's why people have a problem with it, because this is outside the scope of terrorists, terror suspects, those talking to terrorists. that's why people are reacting. >> let me jump in. let me jump in. >> ben, this is also to you, you're a conservative, you come on the show as a conservative. let me read something from the editorial page of the wall street journal, known to be quite conservative. data mining is less intrusive on individuals than routine airport security. let me stress. they say less intrusive than routine airport security. the data sweep is worth it if it prevents terror attacks that would lead politicians to endorse far greater harm than civil liberties.

ben fist, go ahead. >> i have a right at the airport to not ever fly if i don't want to have the government look at my stuff, go through my bag or make me walk through a metal detector. i have the ability to opt out of that by choosing not to fly. what the government is dealing with, the data mining today, you and i, no one watching now has the right to opt out of it in the words of the government and what they're doing. that is two totally different scenarios that the wall street journal should have pointed out that you can choose to just get in your car and drive from point a to point b. >> let me express the view we heard from the president today, in california. again saying it is phone numbers when it comes to the phone calls. it is not the constant conversations. it is not u.s. residents and u.s. citizens, it is folks abroad and it is metadata, which we'll get into the technical stuff later in the show. but the fine line, alan dershowitz, jump in. >> you're hearing a lot of lies about what is going on. a lot of lies. we heard lies last night from greenwalt. he says we're not targeting

terrorism. he says this is because we want to get political information against political opponents. it is just not the case. for 50 years we had data mining. right now it has been permitted under the law without a search warrant to find out if you send letters, who the letters are going to, who the letters are going from. almost all of the information is available to companies. these are serious issues that ought to be debated. but they should not be overstated. there is a paranoid streak in american life, radio talk show hosts tend to foment that in american life. >> hang on. let the professor finish. >> you have to let me finish. let's find the facts. let's not overstate the facts. then let's have -- >> you said that. >> -- considered decisions about how to balance the real need to

prevent terrorism with the real need to preserve our privacy. >> ben ferguson, it is a val concern because people are saying we only know potentially a sliver of what's going on. so how can we even have a well informed debate about this? >> that's right. >> when you see the other side -- let me jump in here. when i see government officials and guys that are sitting on the tv next to me trying to personally bash anyone that gets in the way of what it is he wants, that's a red flag to me. when he says that talk show hosts and everyone else is overreacting, and everyone else is acting like they don't know what they're talking about and they're lying to you and they're lying to you, i heard that a lot and politicians lie. i heard that from people, for example, richard nixon, congressmen, senators who say, you're paranoid. here is what we do know. we know a lot of information is being looked at by people that are not connected to terrorists, including every phone number that is being used, for example, in the verizon network. that's a fact.

so i'm not paranoid to ask the question of a government who has lied to us about targeting people through the irs, who has attacked reporters, who are reporting on stories in the last month, who lied to us about benghazi to say, maybe i don't trust you with this information. >> all right, gentlemen. we're going to keep asking the questions and we potentially really as the professor is saying -- >> don't trust, verify. >> we're verifying. we want the facts. gentlemen, thank you very much. this is not going anywhere anytime soon. new government figures on jobs, they are out. the economy added 175,000 jobs in may. but the unemployment rate bumped up .1%. the white house admits, quote, more work needs to be done, while some republicans are slamming the obama administration for, as they're calling it, failed policies. look at the big board behind me now. the dow jumping at the release of the jobs figures this morning. you can see the dow jones is up

148 points. above the 15,000 mark. that's a good thing. we want to continue chugging in the right direction. always check the numbers, cnnmoney.com. as for tropical storm andrea, moving fast up the east coast, andrea is churning up the surf in the carolinas. it is expected to drench 13 states, all the way from georgia to maine. the cleanup is on as you can see here. this is florida, where the storm spawned tornadoes, knocked down palm trees, causing flooding in some areas. as for you in the northeast, bracing for a deluge, several inches of rain and stiff winds are expected to hit this weekend. and now to this story. you heard about this. one man, 12 children by 14 different women. what did i say? forgive me. 22 children, 14 different women.

i stand corrected. and now they're taking him to court. >> britain versus shaw, jenkins and shaw, williams and shaw, and infeign and shaw, johnson/shaw, different johnson/shaw. >> okay, that was a judge rattling off different women. this is adding up to be one of nashville's most expensive child support cases. find out who is paying for this. a protest and prayer. a valedictorian who shows faith has gone viral. what he said and what he did during his speech stunned the crowd and potentially some of you. he will join me live.

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...and we inspected his brakes for free. -free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. . just in to us at cnn, one of america's most notorious serial killers died this morning in a hospital. richard ramirez, known as the night stalker who terrorized southern california in the '80s, beating, slashing or shooting his victims, he was in the midst of a carjacking when people living in an east l.a. neighborhood captured him. ramirez was found guilty of 13 murders and multiple counts of attempted murder, sexual

assault, burglary. he was sentenced to san quentin's death row. prison officials say he died of natural causes. night stalker richard ramirez died at age 53. valedictorian roy costner iv was told the school rules were no prayer at graduation. you can't talk about your religion during your big speech. well, might have heard that didn't sit well with roy because he said god is the biggest part of his life. he had a preapproved speech prepared. but as you're about to see, he ripped it up, and did this instead. >> i got another one here. most of you will understand what i'm saying. our father, who art in heaven,

hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done -- >> fdefight the rulying the rul. you hear him reciting the lord's prayer. these are school administrators and teachers. but it was no shock to roy's dad, who is a pastor. roy had sought his dad's advice and his father told us what that advise was. >> my son came to me with his speech that had the words prayer in it. and i said, look, if you're doing this for political reasons, don't. but if you're doing it because you feel led to do it, and you feel this is a part of your speech, i want you to do it and i'll stand by you. he said, good. good enough for me. that's all i needed to hear. >> liberty high valedictorian roy coster in er costner iv jo

now. let's begin with this. let's go back. you met with school officials before your speech. did you tell them at the time you were going to mention god or even that you were thinking about it? >> no, i did not let them know at all i would be talking about god. they told me -- they made it very clear i could not in any shape, way or form. >> so given that information that you have from the school, you talk to your dad, who is a pastor, and tell me about that conversation. >> well, i spoke with my dad after i created this speech and i decided to do the prayer and he came to me and said, i want you to make sure this is not for you and this is for god. and a bunch of other pastors said the same thing. after three or four days of devotion and pray, i decided what i felt god wanted me to do and i'm completely astonished and humbled he would choose to use someone like me for something this big. >> so you went with your heart, even though the school district said no god, no prayer, in this

speech. so with the school district, roy, and watching your video and i was watching some of the reactions and the school officials and teachers on the stage behind you, which i realize you couldn't see them at the time, i imagine you watched, you know, the video maybe at least once, what do you think of their reaction? >> i am -- i'm surprised at the reactions of some. i did not expect the school board and some of the administration and staff to seem as pleased as they did, i guess, at some of the things that i was saying in the prayer itself. >> and in addition to looking at the faces, you can't hear the sound, i listened to it earlier, you did get some applause as you ripped that piece of paper up and began reciting the lord's prayer. but here is my question for you, roy. this is a question i have to ask. what if the valedictorian wasn't you, it was a muslim or atheist and the crowd cheered for you knowing your school, knowing the public school and the students you were with, would the crowd

have cheered for them? >> i hope that they would have, only out of respect for them, because they're standing up for their religion just as i did for mine. i don't know that they would, just because of our location. i would hope so, but i can't say. >> what do you mean by your location? >> we're in the bible belt of -- we are in the bible belt here in south carolina. and it was christian -- christianity was a big strong part of our community. and it has been for quite some time after the freedom from religion contacted our school district, trying to restrict prayer and before school board meetings and our district took it to a different level, taking it out of school completely. >> so you're not quite sure how your school would have reacted. what about your christian friends? how would they have reacted if someone was reading from the koran? >> i'm not -- i would hope they would clap. again, i can't say. most of my friends would clap, i would say. my close friends would. but i would -- no one would boo,

because out of respect for each other. our high school is close knit, our community is close knit. anyone like that, they would feel support. >> and my final question for you is, and i heard this was -- this was your one worry, that you were worried you would be punished. are you surprised you weren't? >> after -- once i began the prayer, i am not surprised. but i was very surprised that -- when i began and ripped the speech up on stage, i thought they would come out to get me. i wasn't sure at all. i was extremely nervous. they would do something like that. >> let me read this from pickens county school, the bottom line is we're not going to punish students for expressing their religious faiths. roy, congrats on graduating and good luck at clemson. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up next, the ex-cop accused of killing his wife and setting their home on fire takes the stand. hear why he says it's his fault. plus, the former member of the elite navy s.e.a.l.s reveals

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in kansas today, ex-cop brian seacat took the stand again. he's charged with killing his wife vashti and setting their home on fire two years ago after she served him with divorce papers. he maintains that she started the fire and that she then killed herself. today he testified about telling their marriage counselor that vashti was dead. you won't see him, but you will hear his voice. here he was. >> did you at any time tell her i killed vashti? >> no. >> what did you tell her? >> i told her vashti's dead. it's my fault. >> why did you believe it was your fault that vashti was dead? >> because it was.

>> this is seacat's second day on the stand. yesterday, he raised a lot of eyebrows by cracking jokes that many thought were in poor taste. okay, so we started the show with the privacy debate. now the legal debate. let's get right down to it. what does the government surveillance program mean for your information or my information? coming up next, someone who knows the nsa inside and out says the selection of data, to quote him, is insane. (announcer) born with a natural energy cycle... cats. they were born to play. to eat. then rest. to fuel the metabolic cycle they were born to have, purina one created new healthy metabolism wet and dry. with purina one and the right activity, we're turning feeding into a true nature experience. join us at purinaone.com

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for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands a year in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. unless you're living totally off the grid, big brother is watching you. found out yesterday the u.s. government is collecting records, everyone from your gun popping teenager down the street with the cell phone glued to its head to your grandmother who is still trying to figure out how to send that text message. today, two newspapers, washington post, and britain's guardian, reveal another spy tactic. the reports indicate that the

fbi and the national security agency or the nsa are tapping into some of the world's biggest online companies, these are they, on the screen, to get everything from e-mails, videos, photographs. you have microsoft, apple, youtube, yahoo! google, facebook, skype, president obama weighed in on the spying for fist time just a couple of hours ago. >> nobody is listening to your telephone calls. that's not what this program is about. as was indicated, what the intelligence community is doing is looking at phone numbers and durations of calls. they're not looking at people's names and they're not looking at content. >> the president also says the internet spying does not target any u.s. citizens, u.s. residents or anyone living in the united states. so if no one is listening in on

your phone calls, searching through your facebook page, what is the government seeing and what is it doing with the information? kim vetter is a senior reporter with wired.com and james banford has written four books including the very first one about the nsa, including the shadow factory. so welcome. welcome to both of you. kim, first question to you. two different issues, phone calls and internet surveillance. government says they're storing this metadata in english. what is that? >> so, metadata is -- potentially we're talking about the phone records. we're talking about the calls, the phone numbers that are the original phone number and the recipient phone number. we're talking about data, duration of call, possibly the location of the phones, where

they occurred. that kind of thing. when we talk about metadata, we don't talk about content. we're not also getting subscriber information, the court order in that case was very clear they weren't asking for the name and address of the subscriber. however, that doesn't mean the nsa doesn't always have that information or has the ability to get that as well. >> quickly, let me jump in. james, i'll get to you in a second. just to be clear, i think about the matrix, the movie, and the blips and symbols running through that, an idea of what this could be. are they looking at this or are they looking at actual phone numbers or words? >> well, from what they have said recently, basically what they're trying to do is they pull virtually the entire country's telephone bills, what you see on your bill, how long you made the phone call, who you called, and they're including local calls. this isn't international. these aren't foreign calls. these are calls between you and

your neighbor or you and your children or whatever. these are everybody's phone calls. that's what makes this so outrageous is this wasn't passed through congress. this wasn't approved by anybody. this was just a mandate to get everybody's telephone communications, not necessarily what they're saying, but who they're calling and how long they're on the phone, where they're located and all that. >> as the president explained today if they want more information to go to the judge, the federal judge, defies the judge and has to prove why they want the information, they could get the content of that. tell me then, what does the government do with this information, james? >> well, it does this thing called data mining. it is rather useless but they do it. they take all the information, try to make sense out of it and try to find a terrorist. it hasn't worked very often because the program has been going on for seven years or so, and we had the bombing in

boston, we had the underwear bomber, we had the times square bomber. so all these people communicated and a lot of them communicated internationally. but this is a big surprise to everybody. i've been writing about the intelligence community a long time. the one thing they always want is more information, more data. and all you do is get a bigger hay stack and it makes it more difficult to find that little needle in there. >> yeah, i -- >> you get more people piling data on to the hay stack and fewer people looking for the needle. >> yeah, i read the analogy in politico where you were quoted talking about that. i thought, you know, add to this, the fact they're building this massive $2 billion facility outside of salt lake city, to put a lot of this information, so the hay stack, metaphorically speaking getting bigger and bigger. how do we find the people who

are better at finding the needles? >> have to first of all find people that speak the language. and then trying to speak irdu and pashtu and others. you have to find people that speak the language, understand the culture, which they always had a problem doing. and then engineers and computer experts to sift through the data. i think it is a fallacy to think this is going to solve a big problem with terrorism by -- >> even though mike rogers, chairman of the house intelligence committee, says one attack was thwarted. you say it's not helping. >> i would like to hear the details about the attack that was thwarted. they seem to ballyhoo every time they have a terrorist success. i didn't hear anything about this. and if that's all you this is one success and all these failures, i don't know. if that was a company, i think that company would be out of business at this point.

>> i think i go back in quoting the great lawyer, alan dershowitz, just in saying we only know a sliver of this. what we don't know is what we don't know and there is so much else to have a better informed conversation. we have to leave it there. james banford, thank you very much, writing the original book on the nsa and kim vetter with wired.com, thank you to you. a former navy s.e.a.l. part of this elite team, abig s big secret, a secret she says could have killed her. she's revealing her story to cnn. that's next.

in just a moment, you will meet someone who demonstrated bravery time and time again as a navy s.e.a.l. serving this country with great strength and honor for 20 years. but now this person is showing a different kind of strength. here is anderson cooper with the exclusive report.

>> reporter: christopher todd beck enlisted with the military in 1990, with the dream of joining the u.s. navy s.e.a.l.s. the elite unit with a reputation for being one of the toughest, fittest and most secretive forces in the u.s. military. beck realized that dream serving for 20 years with the s.e.a.l.s and some of the most dangerous battlegrounds around the world, including iraq and afghanistan. a former navy s.e.a.l. who knew beck said he had a stellar reputation among his comrades. by the time he retired from service, in 2011, beck had a long list of medals and accommodations including the bronze star and purple heart. but for 20 years while beck was fighting for his country, he was also fighting an inner battle, a battle over his gender identity. chris beck wanted to live his life openly and honestly as a woman, which is what he started doing after he retired in 2011. chris beck is now kristin beck,

on hormone replacement therapy, and feels like she's becoming the person she was always meant to be. it has been a long journey for kristin to get to this point. she's written a book about her experience called "warrior princess," hoping to help others. the book comes nearly two years after the department of defense repealed its don't ask, don't tell policy allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military, but gender identity has nothing to do with sexuality. transgender men and women are still banned from service. the 20-year decorated combat veteran would not be allowed to serve in the military as she lives her life today. anderson cooper, cnn. in an exclusive conversation with anderson, kristin explains how hard it was to hide who she was for two decades as a navy s.e.a.l. >> what would have happened if you said to some of the s.e.a.l.s you were serving with that this is who you are? >> well, it is probably very similar to some of the support

i'm getting right now. but it wouldn't -- it would have been only that a few of them that would have said, hey, you're my brother and i've never seen you do anything wrong and totally honorable and good to go. and maybe half and half, maybe less. i don't know. that's a chance that if i took it, i might be dead today. >> you might be dead because of what? >> if it got out while i was on active duty, i don't know. it is hard to say what the reaction would be. i don't know. >> that was a legitimate -- that was a fear of yours, a concern of yours, that if this got out, somebody might kill me? >> yes. that's a fear i have right now. i don't know. >> you're worried about that now? >> yes. >> there are a lot of -- there has been a lot of transgender people who are killed for prejudice, for hatred. when the book came out, amazing

support, some amazing praises, but also some pretty amazing bigotry and hatred. and if you read it, you could educate yourself a little bit. i don't want you to like me, but i don't want you to beat me up and kill me. you don't have to like me. i don't care. but please don't kill me. >> everybody knows that feelings are incredibly strong. in my opinion, to do what you're doing now, requires a whole different kind of strength. >> i've seen that comment quite a bit and some s.e.a.l. team brothers said it is a whole different kind of courage. it is not something i look at myself and say, you know, i'm courageous, i never thought about it that way. >> and that is just a piece of the interview. you can watch much more, go to cnn.com. coming up next, he has 22

children with 14 different women. >> i was young, ambitious. i was just young and ambitious and i love women. >> well, that may have been how he felt then. these ladies, they need some money. he owes tens of thousands of dollars in unpaid child support. we'll talk about him on the case next. look what mommy is having. mommy's having a french fry. yes she is, yes she is. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice, with three of your daily vegetable servings in every little bottle. from the united states postal service a small design firm can ship like a big business. just go online to pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. we'll do the rest. ♪

tennessee man has 22 children by 14 different women. he says ladies love him. he's costing taxpayers a lot of money. nick barras has his story. >> i wanted 50 kids. >> reporter: you're almost halfway there. >> i don't want no more. >> reporter: apparently 22 is now enough for orlando shaw. >> don't want no more kids. i want to be fixed. >> reporter: that's his choice, and no one at the davidson county juvenile court is going to object. cases involving shaw's children can fill an entire docket. >> britain versus shaw, jenkins and shaw, williams and shaw, infeign and shaw, johnson/shaw, different johnson/shaw. >> reporter: the list goes on and on of the mothers represented by child support services seeking support for their children. >> i have never doubted mr. shaw's love for his children.

>> reporter: but shaw is tens of thousands of dollars behind in support payments. >> what we're looking for is to come up with a solution to have parents be financially responsible for their children. >> reporter: scott rosenberg knows that would be good for both the children and the taxpayers. when shaw doesn't pay, the state has to help support his kids. consider $142 per child in temporary assistance. another $200 or so in food stamps. multiply that total by 22 kids and the state pays more than $7,000 each month. so how on earth does the man in he's early 30s explain fathering nearly two dozen children with more than 13 women? the only way to find out is to ask. that's what we did. listen. >> i love my kids. i could care less what anybody thinks about it. >> reporter: are you able to pay child support? >> i can't pay child support right now. they know i can't pay child support right now. >> reporter: how do you father that many children to that many women? >> pick them up, you got habit

worked out. >> reporter: what about contraception? was that not an option for you? >> i was young, ambitious. i was just young and ambitious and i love women. hey, you can knock no man for loving women. >> reporter: ladies like you? >> the ladies love me. they don't like me. they love me. the ladies love me. they don't like me. >> reporter: you like the idea of having that many children out there that you fathered. is that it? >> yes, our legacy lives on. my family stays strong. i make sure we'll be here for years and years to come. >> sorry. sorry. that was nick barras. straight face here this is serious. you just heard, he's costing the taxpayer more than $7,000 a month. cnn legal analyst sunny hostin is in new york. i see that smile on your face. i mean, listen, you heard the women giggling as he was talking about loving women. but, but do these women, he said

it himself, he can't pay child support. do these 14 mothers have a chance of getting a dime from this guy? >> you know, i don't really think so. this has been a problem that we have talked about in particular. we talked about another case where there is a father that had fathered so many children. i think that this is a real problem affecting not only this gentleman, but other people as well. the federal government has even gotten involved in trying to help the state sort of crack down on these deadbeat dads. i don't know that jail is really the option because you want them to be able to fulfill these child support obligations. if they're in prison, they're not making any money and not supporting their children. and so i think in cases like this, the real solution is perhaps probation as a condition of probation, make sure they have to get a job. but in his case, he's saying that he's got a criminal history, so it is even more difficult for him to get employed. i think the advice of the women here is i think they have to get

employment. >> start working. what about the judge? what do you think is going through his head? >> i imagine he's thinking, how do i fix this? how do i help? that's what i was thinking about when i started researching this case. and i really do think that the solution here is trying to find this person some sort of employment because it really is about being personally financially responsible for your children. >> sunny hostin, thank you. of store management started as hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it, or be an engineer, helping walmart conserve energy. even today, when our store does well, i earn quarterly bonuses. when people look at me, i hope they see someone working their way up. vo: opportunity, that's the real walmart. how old is the oldest person you've known?

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u.s. economy adding more jobs last month, even note unemployment rate went up. some workers are depending on

themselves for the paycheck. tom foreman with this week's american journey. >> reporter: when this small tech company began out in kansas, one of the founders, dan carol, knew he needed virtually no permanent staff, just talented temporary workers hired when needed and ready to embrace a new professional mantra. >> i guess the idea that the job you create for yourself is the most stable job you could have. >> reporter: he's not alone. one business study estimates there are already more than 17 million americans who no longer work for companies, but sell their skills day by day. that number could jump to 23 million in the next few years. >> yeah, freelancing is happening everywhere. >> reporter: at the freelancers union in new york, the founder knows all about it. >> it is really a phenomenon where people are hard working, and they're just putting together a bunch of projects and they work in fields ranging from being a doctor to a programmer

to being a nanny. >> reporter: not much like a traditional union, her group helps its members take on all the tasks that employers used to manage. networking for the next job, marketing skills, and the toughest part, managing health care. by combining their purchasing power, she says group members get insurance for 40% less than it would cost them individually. and for all the headaches -- >> because they don't work that 9 to 5, they can be khome when their kids get home from school. >> reporter: she suspects many freelancers, despite some economic jitters, are feeling more free because they left the everyday office behind. tom foreman, cnn, kansas city. [ male announcer ] it's intuitive and customizable, just like a tablet. so easy to use, it won a best of ces award from cnet.

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not just your phone, the feds with access to your e-mail, your photos. you're about to hear both sides. why you should be worried and why you should embrace it. i'm brooke baldwin. the news is now. a judge changed the rules as she fights for a lung transplant. and now we're hearing she's not alo alone. the moment the military blew up one of its own. the new form of blockbuster

promotions, the element of surprise. >> it is the most intense thing you're going to see all summer. plus, a valedictorian stuns the crowd in the middle of his speech. >> our father, who art in heaven -- >> this young man tells me live why he decided to break the rules. and tonight could mark one of the most awkward get togethers of barack obama's presidency. and here we go, hour two, i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for sticking with me. let's get right to the big story roiling the nation for a second straight day. just a short time ago, the president weighed in for the first time on the government data mining that calls into question here the eroding sense of privacy. right off the top, he referred are programs that he inherited.

>> i came in, with a healthy skepticism about these programs. my team evaluated them. we scrubbed them thoroughly. we actually expanded some of the oversight, increased some of the safeguards, but my assessment and my team's assessment was that they help us prevent terrorist attacks. >> part of what the president said today was the fact that you cannot have 100% security and 100% privacy with zero inconvenience, i believe the word he used was trade-off. he said he welcomes this debate, called it a mature debate. we'll have that legal debate in a second. want to go straight to our chief congressional correspondent dana bash, because i hear you spoke with democrat senator mark udall who, you know, he has really done everything short of leaking classified information. he's been waving the flag for, i

know, a couple of years in his push to blow the whistle on this snooping, on the phone records. what did he tell you, dana? >> reporter: from his perspective, it is like screaming with a muzzle on your mouth. you can only scream so loud when you have information that is classified. so when the president said today that members of congress knew all about it, they voted for it, they could have objected to it, he is somebody, again, a member of the president's own party, who is a member of the senate intelligence committee, has the classified information, and did try to object. listen to what he told me exclusively a short while ago. >> i think that we overreached, i think that we ought to have this discussion and we can find the right balance. but if the people don't know, how do you have the discussion. >> the president said clearly today, wait a minute, members of congress knew about this, they authorized this, they were briefed on it. if they had problems, they should have raised questions. >> i did raise questions. >> you did raise questions. and what happened? >> i went to the floor, i offered amendments. i did everything possible short

of leaking and i would never leak any material. i came out with a smaller amount of votes. but i continue to push for this. continue to draw attention to it. i'm going to continue to do so today. >> what were your objections? >> my objections were that we had a body of law, under 215, being secretly interpreted. i wanted that interpretation to be revealed to the american public. >> now, two other important points that he made, one is that we now know in a public way that there are two issues that we're talking about. one is the broad surveillance of phone records. that is something that congress did pass last year and a of ago, i should say. and then more recently something that allows access to the internet, to people's movements on the internet. the senator is much more opposed to the way that the government is interpreting the first, the phone records, than the latter. but the other interesting thing is, again, because he's a member of the intelligence committee, has access to classified information. i said what do you say to your

chairwoman and your -- who is a democrat, fellow democrat, a top republican who says they think that terror plots were actually thwarted because of this. he said he really doesn't necessarily believe that. he said that there are other reasons that based on what he knows that the terror plots were thwarted. >> wow. okay. dana bash with the interview with senator udall, who has been waving the flag with senator wyden of oregon, excellent, getting us a little perspective and reaction from what we heard from the president today. let me bring in two gentlemen, jonathan turley back with us, day two, professor of law at george washington university, who was with us yesterday. also with us is jeffrey toobin, our cnn senior legal analyst. jonathan, since you were with me yesterday, you know, you expressed some serious problems with the data collection effort that we talked about initially, you know. yesterday the phone calls. today we're talking the movements on the internet. since then, with the additional

information that we have learned, thanks to the newspapers and the reporting, tell me between that and with the president said today, are you more reassured or less reassured than our conversation this time yesterday? >> well, i don't know how to be more assured. it has gotten a lot worse. what we're talking about is the creation of massive data banks that would allow transparency on how people are conducting themselves, who they are calling, who they are e-mailing, when, from where. this is critical information that most people consider to be private. right now, whether or not the government believes it shouldn't be, it is a choice as to what society we want. we're becoming this fishbowl society. that choice has not been presented to the american people. it has been presented between the white house and the intelligence community and a few senators. but the choice has never been given to us. and it is a very different country than the one that we're used to.

>> jeff, jump in. >> i'm not sure that's quite the case. we have three branches of government in this country. all three have weighed in, in favor of this idea. so i don't think there is a really good argument that this is somehow illegal. the question, and it is a close one, frankly, is this is a good idea, is this the kind of program we want to have weighing the balance between privacy and security. there has always been a less expectation of privacy in the numbers you call and how long you talk. that is something the phone company always knows. that's something that everybody knows, the phone company is keeping track of. >> but it is one thing for the phone company to know that. quite another for the government, right? >> but that is -- when i was an assistant u.s. attorney, we would sympathy the phone company for records like that, all the time. as a matter of course. and the person wouldn't even know that we were subpoenaing them. there is a big difference under

the law between those records about phone calls and the content of phone calls. this is all about the numbers and the duration, and people historically and legally have less expectation to privacy. >> i think interesting, too, these nine megainternet companies, skype and youtube and google, five of the nine said they had no idea this was even going on. let me just jump in, there is another interesting point, i want you to weigh in on. we sort of realize this judge whose name is on the order of approving the phone data program and here's the order, i want to show it to you right here, his name is roger vincent. roger vincent just happens to be the judge who said if the government can mandate health care coverage, then, heck, remember this, it can force us all to eat broccoli. this was the broccoli judge. you would think he would have a narrow view of the reach of the federal government, but here he is saying, sure, you know, go ahead, do the phone data collection.

just make you wonder whether this court would ever, jonathan turley, say no. >> virtually never does turn down requests. long time ago, when i was a young intern at nsa i went into the secret court and i -- from that experience i had a lifetime opposition to the fisa court which i think is a mockery. it is -- the judges have virtually no basis to turn down applications, which is why only a few out of tens and hundreds of thousands of cases and applications have ever been turned down. wasn't i want to say something about the earlier point by jeff, the legality of the scope of this. there are cases that say registers are entitled to less privacy. this is something we have not encountered before. in most of those cases, like as jeff described, you're requesting a pen register on a person who has come up in investigation. here the government is demanding every call made by every citizen

and putting them into a massive data bank. that's a different type of proposition. it is something we have not encountered in this way before. >> and final question, when i hear him saying that, i'm thinking, it is a slippery slope. at what point does -- is it the government, you mentioned the three branches of government, congress, where do you draw the line? >> well, the courts have the authority and i would like to take the opportunity to agree with jonathon. i think these courts are a joke. they're rubber stamped, they are not something that is going to protect anybody's rights. i think we should leave these things to the regular federal courts. these things have to evolve on a case by case basis. obviously they're pushing the limit pretty hard here, but in the post 9/11 world, all the pressure has been moved in that direction. and mark udall, notwithstanding, i don't see much pushback from congress on this either. >> jeffrey toobin and jonathan turley, gentlemen, thank you so much.

appreciate it. straight to this breaking news that we're getting now on this arrest, rather surprising arrest in the case of the ricin-laced letters sent to mayor michael bloomberg, president obama, these anti-gun groups. ed lavandera is live in dallas. ed, what are you learning? >> reporter: if you remember, last week we were outside of the home in a town of new boston, texas, a small town far in the northeast corner of this state. and we're now learning, sources are telling cnn, that the woman who lived at that house, a woman by the name of shannon rogers richardson, was taken into custody and will be facing charges in connection with the ricin investigation. we're still trying to get more confirmation and more details on what the specific charges will be. but the law enforcement source tells cnn's susan candiotti that she was angry at her husband. remember, last week, we reported that it was a woman in that area of northeast texas that had

called investigators, had told them she had found some suspicious substances in her house, and that she had called authorities and told them about this. and that's when investigators descended on this -- at this house in the northeast corner of texas. and started a full throttle investigation there at the house. they descended on this neighborhood intensely last week and now we're hearing that charges in -- there had been suspicion that they were looking at the husband in this case, because that's the way it was originally reported, our sources saying it was the woman who had called out and said, you know, perhaps my husband had been involved in this. but now sources are telling us that it is, indeed, the woman, shannon richardson who is now facing charges in connection with this ricin letter investigation. >> let me ask you this, because we see on the screen, actress arrested in texas ricin case. who is she? >> reporter: well, it is interesting, we have been doing a little digging on that as well. she is an aspiring actress. she had very minor roles in several television shows.

well known television shows, like "the walking dead" and "vampire diaries". she lives a very quiet neighborhood, many of the neighbors that we had spoken with didn't really know them all that well, they had only recently moved into that neighborhood, i think a year and a half ago, many neighbors told us. so someone that was an aspiring actress, to what extent she was intent on her career is hard to say. but she did have some minor roles in very popular tv shows. >> and now she's arrested. ed lavandera on breaking news for us this afternoon. thank you so much. if you get more information, let us know. moving on, the family of a 10-year-old girl fighting to save her life, now we have learned their hard work may actually be helping save other children. we have told you the story about sarah murnaghan. she needs a new pair of lungs. her parent s won this crucial court ruling that could help speed up the process and now cnn has discovered that that ruling could help save the life of this

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that 11-year-old javier acosta here who is waiting for a lung transplant, should be bumped up on the adult waiting list. this news here coming to us after 10-year-old sarah murnaghan's parents pushed and pushed for a change in that organ donation policy so that their 10-year-old daughter could get adult lungs more quickly. jason carroll has been all over the cases for us. jason, this is another challenge to the policy that keeps kids younger than age 12 from getting priority, i know, on the waiting list for adult lungs. brings up all kinds of issues here. so who should get priority? >> well, it really does. and just to be clear, when you listen to the parents of people like sarah murnaghan, whose daughter has cystic fibrosis, needs a lung transplant, they're not looking for a fast track. what they're basically looking for is more of an even playing field. they want a field where the sickest person has availability to these lung donations when

they become available. that was not happening in the past, but now that this federal judge has stepped in and changed the policy, the so-called under 12 rule, which in the past basically prevented any child under the age of 12 years old from being put in that pool with the adults who are trying to get donations, now that under 12 rule has temporarily been suspended. that's what these parents are asking for. they're just asking for a level playing field. >> and so with the level playing field, that was the issue with sarah murnaghan, her parents saying the number -- the issue is the number of kids' lungs, right, is so small, which i don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing, but that, you know, that she should be added to the adult waiting list, correct? >> right. and just to put that in perspective, let's look at one number we have got. back since 2008,he total number of lung transplants that have been done in the united states, total 8,775.

now, that's lung transplants. only about 1% of that, just about 88 of those patients were children. so the numbers are very, very small. and so you've got a very small number of donations from children, to other children, children can take a modified lung from an adult, and so if you're a parent out there, with a sick child, that desperately needs a lung transplant, you're thinking, wouldn't it be better for my child and other children out there to at least to have access, the same access that adults do to these donations. >> that's what they want. jason carroll, thank you so much. a ship under attack, whole thing caught on video. hit play next.

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and now to some of the hottest videos of the day. we call it hit play. the norwegian navy playing battle ship with one of its own. check out the explosive moment

once again, the decommissioned ship just target practice for the navy's new 800 pound missiles. sneak preview, surprise. brad pitt crashing a screening of his new thriller "world war z." the hollywood superstar and some free t-shirts, sending the crowd into a frenzy. >> have fun! all right. we have got a runner. this adventurous black bear sending albuquerque police on a wild chase for hours. before the bear escapes into the foothills. would you believe the street this happened is actually called black bear lane. big brother to the rescue. a 10-month-old choking on dog food -- >> barely making noise. >> his dad desperately trying to

help. >> he says in a calm voice, you're doing it wrong. >> the 11-year-old brother had taken cpr training one week earli earlier. >> five chest compressions. >> the quick thinking wound up saving the day. >> he wasn't panicking. and did you see this? game one, nba finals, came down to this. the frenchman, tony parker, dipping, weaving, sinking. a shot before the buzzer over king james. spurs win, and that's today's hit play. we're learning more about government programs that mine your e-mails, phone records, photos, maybe for data. we're asking what is more worriso worrisome? the fact they have the programs in place or the fact they kept it a secret from americans. we'll debate that next. this i. her long day of pick ups and drop offs begins with arthritis pain... and a choice.

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more revelations today about how the u.s. government tries to catch terrorists by spying on private communications. so we first talked about this yesterday, we discovered that uncle sam is collecting the phone records of verizon customers, everyone from your kids' text messages to her bff to your grandfather who is still trying to figure out how to send a text message. today, two different newspapers, the washington post and britain's guardian, report the fbi and the nsa, the national

security agency, are tapping into megahuge companies. you see them here. to get everything from e-mails to videos to photos, talking microsoft, apple, youtube, yahoo! google, facebook, and skype. we did hear from the president talking about this for the first time just this afternoon. here he was. >> nobody is listening to your telephone calls. that's not what this program is about. >> the president also says the internet spying does not target any u.s. citizens or anyone living in the united states. the president is taking some brutal fire here over all this surveillance. did you wake up and click on to your huff po, this was the front page of the huffington post this morning, the headline and the morphed picture, george w. obama. with that, let me bring in these two guys, david sirota.

david, to you first what is more worrisome in your opinion, the fact that the government is having programs in place for years and years, or that they kept it a secret from us? >> i think they're both worrisome. i think that the fact that this program is happening is the most worrisome part of this. there is always the crime, if you will, and the cover-up, but really what we're talking about here is the perception and reality of privacy in america. the president saying that people are not listening in on people's phone calls, technically that's true. i would argue that's even more misleading than what we already -- than really hiding what has been going on. it just is continuing the misleading part of this. in the sense that metadata, the data about phone calls, as national security experts tell us, the metadata actually can tell you almost as much about individuals and their lives, the intricate details of their lives, as listening in on the actual calls themselves. >> does this bother you,

cornell? >> what would be bothersome is if we know people trying to kill us and they're using these spaces to coordinate and set up attacks on us, what would be bothersome is if our government was just throwing their hands up and not doing anything about it. i think the american people would be a lot more outraged if there were people using this technology, using this space to coordinate attacks on us and the government didn't do anything. is it ideal? absolutely not. it is not ideal. but truth of the matter is, there are people trying to kill us and the government has a responsibility to take action to try to stop these people from killing us. do we have to balance that with privacy? absolutely we do. >> the president, you know, listening to him speak today, mentioned multiple times, congressional oversight, all three branches of the government are involved, there is a whole audit process in place. yet i sat and wondered, david, who should we hold accountable for this? >> well, i think it is the congress and the executive

branch, absolutely. and i think that the point here is not -- there is not an either/or in my estimation. there is not either we're safe or we're spying on everyone. we have had laws in place for decades. we have a thing called the constitution which says we do not do mass surveillance. that's what this is. this is not individual targeted surveillance on suspects. this is mass surveillance of everybody. that should be offensive to liberals, should be offensive to conservatives, should be offensive to anybody who believes in the constitution of the united states. i reject the idea that the only way to make us safe, when we faced even bigger threats than we faced today, the only way to make us safe is to put the entire country under a system of mass surveillance. >> it is incredibly sensitive information and i read this quote in the atlantic. let me read this. this is from the writer conner friedersdorf. to an increasing degree we're counting on having angels in office and making ourselves vulnerable to devils.

bush and obama have built infrastructure any devil would lust after. i read this quote, it made me think of the drone program that has come under fire and the idea of the kill list and whoever inherits the next presidency, and inherits information, to go off this quote is information that any devil would lust after, cornell, what are your thoughts about that? >> well, you know, i wish we lived in -- i hear the terms absolutism. absolutism stuff. i wish we lived in a world where i could have it my way all the time and we as adults have to compromise certain things. in the real world when terrorists are triing to ki int us, we have to take measures of privacy versus security. that's the real world. there is also a misunderstanding here. what the government is doing, is it ideal, no. what the government is doing is no different than as a polster what i do. what they're really doing is running algorithms over large data sets looking for suspicious

patterns. the same thing that happens when a bank and tech company runs algorithms and finds suspicious patterns. if your bank hits you up and says something is going on, are you at such and such place doing something, there is an algorithm between the math and science. >> i see you shaking your head. >> that's the craziest thing i've ever heard. the government is using the power of the law enforcement agencies -- that's pretty crazy to say you as a polster is doing what the government is doing by tapping into people's phone networks, their wireless networks without anybody knowing their social media networks to watch them and to watch the patterns without any permission -- >> is your bank -- watching your credit cards right now? are tech companies watching what we're doing now? yeah, this he -- they are. >> the constitution applies to the government. the constitution constrains the power of the government. go back and read it. if you read the constitution, it is about constraining the power of the federal government to

infringe on our privacy. that is different than an individual consumer's relationship with the company that may decide to -- >> to make the accusation, you act like they're doing something illegal. the congress has authorized this and the federal courts are watching over it. they're not doing anything -- >> it may be legal, but it is not right. >> then you should read the constitution then because there is -- >> i think it will be litigated. i think it goes to the supreme court. >> hang on, you're both talking at once. you both have valid points. hang on, hang on. >> my point is very simple. this will go to the supreme court in my estimation and will be challengechallenged. it will be challenged on constitutional grounds. i encourage you to read the fourth amendment and see if -- >> the patriot act is not ideal. we have problems with the patriot act. congress reauthorized it. here is the other thing. you look at the polling data,

only 30% feels the actions are outrageous and violating civil liberties. >> hang on. hang on, gentlemen, gentlemen, hang on. you bring up polling data. i'm thinking of this interesting polling, a cnn orc poll, i think this is also fascinating because we group these people and ask, you know, how do you feel about this surveillance. and it was like an under 50 versus over 50 and majority of people who were bothered by the government, you know, surveilling this information were the younger folks. and that surprised me. when you think of the oversharing of the younger generation, it bugs them more than folks over 50. why do you think that is? to either of you? >> i think it is because people who are young who are younger, who use technology more often and have gotten used to technology being part of their lives have presumed there is a -- some sort of privacy there. and that as that technology becomes central to their lives, that presumption is being ripped away by the obama

administration, which thinks it has the right to basically be watching over everybody. i think that bothers people who in particular who technology -- where technology is a fundamental part of their lives. >> i think it is healthy to be suspicious. i don't think -- i think it is healthy to be suspicious. i'm suspicious of it. i'm not comfortable with it. is it ideal, no. the alternative is for us to allow these terrorist organizations to coordinate activities here and do nothing that would be outrageous. >> can i respond to that quickly. it is incumbent on the people making that argument to prove to us that it is making us safer. you'll notice that your guest has not pointed out one shred of evidence that this made this country any safer. he's thrown out an abstract argument that it is a choice of -- >> part of the issue is we don't know as the american public, i was talking to several lawyers on the show, and they said we just don't know. we're hearing sort of somewhat nebulously from the house intelligence committee, that

this wathwarted terrorist attac and senator mark udall saying i don't have all the details. >> we don't have the information. let me ask you this. do you think people have not tried to kill us over the last four or five years? >> absolutely, they have. i was in boston for three weeks. i know exactly -- >> absolutely. >> where is your evidence that the surveillance made us safer? where is the evidence that surveillance made us safer? you have none. this will make us safer, yet there is no evidence that it does. >> we're leaving it there. great conversation. come back. we're not over with this. cornell belcher and david sirota, thank you. back to our breaking news, word of a -- new breaking news, word of a shooting at santa monica college in california. shots fired on the campus. we're getting the facts, making phone calls. details next. videoconference of the day hi! hi, buddy!

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all right, we are getting some breaking news here in to cnn. the fact there has been now confirmed by santa monica police a shooting at santa monica college. showing you the map. you can understand exactly where this is. a shooting has happened on the campus of santa monica college. according to police, here is what we know. according to affiliates who are there for us, our los angeles affiliates, they are reporting that the suspect is down, that the suspect is down, but there are multiple injuries here. and let me just talk live to the control room, eric hall, tell me again, they're reporting -- i'll check my e-mail as i'm talking to you. from kabc, santa monica college on lockdown because of an active shooter on campus. the shooting was reported at the school campus shortly after

noon. so about 40 minutes ago, pacific time. it was unclear how many shots were fired or exactly where the shots were fired. three victims. they're putting a number on this. they say three victims were reportedly shot and found in a vehicle about a block and a half away from this school. authorities say one suspect was down, but there may be more victims. the investigation is ongoing. and just broadening this out for you, we also know that -- we know the president is in california. he was en route to santa monica to attend this fund-raising event, this is this democratic national committee, fund-raising event, so the secret service has also been notified. looking at my e-mail again, secret is saying we are aware of the incident and it is not impacting the visit. it is a local police matter at this point. sadly we have covered these. so i can tell you in cases like this, what is happening right now is the campus is on

lockdown. even though according to these reports there is one suspect who is down. you have police. you have first responders rushing to the scene. obviously to tend to those who have been shot, those who have been injured. but also to set up a perimeter. because they want to make sure no one is coming in, no one is going out, because there could be other shooters. we don't know that. and they don't know that either. it is that variable that is making them be extra cautious here in cases like this, to make sure they are catching anyone who could be responsible or involved in this. again, this is all happening live. i'm checking my e-mail as i'm getting more information from my executive producer. let's see. so the president is currently at a fund-raiser in santa monica. so keep in mind, not too far away from where this school shooting has happened sits the president, miles away from santa

monica college. the secret service, again, telling the traveling pool, folks who travel and cover the president, we are aware of the incident, it is not impacting the visit. it is a local police matter at this point in time. so, again, if you are just now joining us, we have confirmation from santa monica police that there has been a shooting at santa monica college. let's listen. >> guns and i'm, like, i hear students running and going crazy. i ask the guy, he goes over, he's like, there is a guy shooting on campus. i ran to my car as quick as i could. i was so scared. i didn't know what to do, like, just -- >> we thank you for joining us. there are a lot of students behind here, very shaken, very confused by what has taken place here. you see some of the students behind us here were in a group of chp patrol vehicles at this side of the campus. we have seen helicopters overhead. we have seen also santa monica police and other agencies responding here. we have seen ambulances coming and going. all we know at this point and

all we have been able to get confirmed, which we have been reporting op ining on the air, e multiple victims of this and the suspect is down on campus. everyone here is still trying to get information and the students who were on campus, some were told to either shelter in place, that they were going to be locked down, or they needed to leave. and i'm sorry, i'm trying to get some information from our studio there, but we were told that the students here tell us they were either asked to shelter in place or to leave the campus immediately. and that they did that, the ones we're speaking to here. here trying to call home and let folks know they're okay. report living here from the campus. >> we know you've been scrambling to get information. you've collected a lot in a short while. you may not have the answer, but we have confirmation from the santa monica police department that a suspect is, quoting now, the santa monica pd, down. do we know what that means,

alive and in custody or dead? >> i'm sorry, i couldn't hear all of what you had to say. i'll let the camera pan off and show part of the scene. if you could repeat your question there. >> trying to find out if there is any way of knowing when the santa monica police department confirms a suspect is, quote, down, does that mean alive and in custody, or dead? >> it is a great question. i've been asking the california highway patrol who is at this entrance that exact question. when i first arrived, they told me -- they understood the suspect was in custody. but they said they would likely get further confirmation from is on the santa monica pd who is handling this. all the agencies working together, they're trying to clarify that as well. unclear at this point. >> this is preliminary information, breaking news just into our newsroom. all santa monica schools, santa monica college on lockdown because of a shooting. it sounds like the shooting may

have been near the campus, when we're talking about buses and a person shooting into traffic and then perhaps a gunman somehow got on to the campus and into the library. is that your impression of what happened? >> that sounds about right from what we're hearing from students. all of this very preliminary. but what we were hearing from some of the witnesses here who heard the gunfire is that it may have taken place in the library or very close to the library, when we first arrived, we can tell you that santa monica pd was interviewing a witness who was in the library and we're told he had quite a bit of information about what may have taken place. he is no longer behind us. i think santa monica pd took him with them because he may have had important information. we do have some witnesses behind us who are continuing to talk with chp and have gone on to campus. but let's pan around and show you a little bit of the scene here. you can see some of the students who are on campus, who are waiting, you know, to find out more information here and if we pan around to the side here, you can see the highway patrol

vehicles as well. this is just a small amount of the force that we saw here. it appears many of these -- the law enforcement that responded has moved on to campus. we have not been able to move in closer yet, but taking a closer look with this investigation, obviously under way, trying to figure out exactly how many people have been hurt here. and whether that shooter has been wounded, it down, is in custody, all of that still not clear. >> kara, at the top of this very hour, nearly 48 minutes ago, you were not too far away at president obama's fund-raiser on the west side in the city of santa monica. you got to this area in how long? how long did it take and were you passing polices or were they passing you to get to this site? >> i want to say it was five to ten minutes, the drive very quick. we were alerted because we were at a corner on san vicente where there was a protest taking place. there was a large group of people in the middle of the street, sitting down, actually, protesting, calling for immigration reform and a police car pulled through the middle,

we thought that was unusual. we noticed a number of other law enforcement vehicles headed this way and that's when we came this way as well. really just five to ten minutes away, a massive force, obviously in place in this area already for the president. if we can opinion over, j.r., that's one of the ambulances we have seen coming and going. this one with lights on, but no sirens that have been coming and going from the campus here. so, yeah, very close to where the president has been at a fund-raiser this morning. concerns about his security as well. but a good distance obviously away from where he was. >> kara, we're going to stay with you. live pictures. and stay with you. we want to bring you a twitter picture, very quickly. this is a picture posted on twitter, just a little while ago. and that bus you see on the right side of your screen, right there, it looks like the big blue bus from santa monica and there reports that this bus was at clover field and olympic and that there are bullet holes in the bus. i can't tell from looking at that picture that there are any

bullet holes, but, again this is a picture just posted on twitter a few moments ago. a santa monica big blue bus, the public transportation there in the city of santa monica, this bus at cloverfield and olympic. there are reports that the bus has bullet holes in it. >> we did talk with the chp representative who said all of this -- >> we're going to pull away from this. we have been listening to reporter kara finstrom in los angeles. we were reporting the president is mere miles away from where this campus shooting happened in santa monica, california. he's there to attend the dnc fund-raiser and now here we have another campus shooting, just to reiterate, according to affiliate reporting and you heard from kcbs that they're saying that police are telling them that a suspect, i don't know if it is the suspect but a suspect is down and they're trying to get more information. three people have been injured. and i have sergeant denise

jocelyn on the home, with the california highway patrol, on the scene now. sergeant, with you with me? >> i am, brooke. how are you today? >> i'm doing okay. straight to you. what do you know about what happened? >> well, what i can tell you is that we initially started receiving some calls as early as 11:55 this morning, just before noon. we had multiple witnesses call in to report having seen a male adult holding several weapons and firing at -- into cars and at a bus. we had a report that came in from some passengers on the bus that shots were fired into the bus and there were injured parties. i don't have any information to share with you with regards to how many people we may have injured on that bus. calls continued to come in. within the santa monica area, including on santa monica college campus as well. the shots continuing to be fired, of course. the school was placed into lock -- on lockdown.

all of our information we received from callers we did share with our allied agency counterparts including santa monica pd. we have set up a joint command post where and certain if

you see anything that, you know, was alarming or anyone that you believe is armed we will be able to use that to help in our continuation of the search of this area. >> and, sergeant, as you are saying that, let me say this, we're getting this from santa monica school district, the malibu, this another note for those of you in this part of the country, the malibu unified school district sum's office tells us that all of the schools in their district so all of the malibu unified school districts

on lockdown at this moment and, again, just to stress in cases like these we're just getting the information, sergeant, you know this so well is we're just getting the information. a lot of misinformation, so we want to be very, very careful to what you were reporting. back to what you were saying, sergeant, with this male adult, that was news that this was a he, that this male adult with weapons. do we know what kind of weapons? >> i do not. you know, calls have been -- we have multiple people calling in with different locations, different information and as you directly stated, we have to sift through as best as we can and our greatest concern is we respond to the area and obviously eliminate the threat as soon as possible. one report that we did have come in, indicated that the shooter was holding the shotgun, you know, again, but i don't have confirmed information with regards to the types of weapon or weapons. >> okay. let me just put a pause on this conversation. let's listen to some witnesses here. >> i have my headphones but i

can still hear, like, a loud bang but i didn't think nothing of it. >> hey, guys, we're ready. >> okay. so, forgive us for that. sergeant, are you still with me on the line? >> i am actually. >> let me just come back to you because back to this male adult who y said was walking with these weapons and just started firing at a car, into a bus. from where was this adult walking? was it -- was it on campus or off? >> well, again, initially and i can just kind of cross compare here. i believe it was within a few blocks of the campus initially, our very first report that we got from a witness indicated that the suspect was observed on a corner and just bear with me here, i believe it was 26th and peco and cloverfield were the first observations. the intersections are within a block or maybe the very same

block as our santa monica college. so, all, again, very, very close and anytime we have any type of an incident like this especially close to a school, you know, it's always imperative that we get the schools on lockdown immediately and secure the safety of our students, the teachers and the rest of the citizens out there. >> absolutely. let me -- sergeant, stay with me. let me just dip back in. let me just dip back in. we're doing this live. dip back in to kcal coverage. >> okay, tell me what you saw, what you heard. >> so, i was in the computer lab. i was on facebook and i saw everyone running back towards the back of the library and saw -- went out and saw and an alarm went off and then immediately i heard a shotgun blast and at least eight probably hand gun blasts, what seems to be. it was definitely handgun, i know, because i hunt, so it was a shotgun and then, like, at least eight handgun blasts. >> did you see any of the people that were injured? >> i did not. i was in the back of the library. i was too busy rushing to get

out of this so -- >> we're glad you're okay. you said you did speak to someone who was closer to the fire? >> yes, i spoke to someone who actually saw both the shooters. he said that one of them had a shotgun and one of them had a handgun so -- >> this is something we haven't had confirmed. we should clarify here by police. another person is telling you he saw two shooters. >> one was dressed in white o r overhaove overalls with dreadlocks and the other one was dressed in white also. >> tell me what you saw after you heard the gunshots fired. >> i went to the football and i went through the parking structure to evacuate and then i saw a car that was on campus which had at least four bullet holes in the side of the car in the passenger's seat and the window was shattered as well. it was parked on campus. >> this was parked a distance from where the other shooting was. >> not even close to the library, so it's really a mystery. >> now, you were on campus at

the time. you're a student. what were you told by school officials right after this? >> i was not told anything. honestly, everyone was panicking in the library. there was people holding the doors open, so i just assumed to book it that way. we went through the emergency exit and i just followed everyone else. >> have you received any texts from the college? what have you been told now? you are all gathered here. >> so far we know it's on lockdown. we don't know if they're going to open it up again. that's all we know. >> we thank you very much for joining us. what is your name? >> james. >> a student here. >> what year are you? >> my second year. >> we appreciate you joining us. >> if you are just joining us we're looking at some pictures from santa monica as there has been a school shooting, there has been a school shooting here, at santa monica college. at least we're told was just talking to a california highway patrol spokesperson on the phone with me telling me that one suspect has been or i should say is in custody, possibly as you just heard from an eyewitness speaking with one of the

reporters in l.a. saying that another shooter has been seen, so right now we know that all of the malibu unified school district schools are on lockdown now. let's take a listen. >> from the badge and the shoulder pads, that's chp. i wonder if we can listen in for a second. >> yeah. >> yes. we have with us -- we do have with us jose cleveria with the chp. we appreciate you joining us. we know there's not a lot of information you can tell us. but tell us what's happening on the campus right now. >> multiple police agencies in there, santa monica pd, lapd and they are securing the scene and check the perimeters. right now it's considered still an active scene, so all we can do right now is keep the public out and the students until we get the all-clear. >> you said you have students still on campus that are sheltered in place that you want to get out. >> that's what the other students are saying. we're assuming the departments are making the preparation.

we have to get in there to get them out. >> what can you tell us about what's occurred here? >> you know as much as i do. we just got called to the scene and right now all we're tasked with is doing the perimeter and keeping students out of the campus. >> you are watching breaking news out of santa monica, santa monica college shooting and jake tapper and the lead takes it from here. >> three major stories breaking right now. another college shooting. an arrest in the investigation in to who sent the ricin letters and shocking news about the philadelphia building collapse. i'm jake tapper and this is "the lead." the national lead, there's a breaking twist in the investigation of that building collapse in philadelphia that killed six people. we'll get the latest from the mayor. also in national, shots fired on the campus of santa monica college, just miles from where president obama is right now. we'll go there live. and just when you thought the case could not get any more bizarre, there's been an arrest in