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play it. >> my name is ed snowden. i'm 29 years old. i worked as an infrastructure analyst in hawaii. >> what are some of the positions that you held previously within the intelligence community? >> i have been a systems engineer, systems administrator, senior advisor for the central intelligence agency, solutions consultant and a telecommunications information systems officer. >> one of the things that people are going to be most interested in, in trying to understand who you are and what you're thinking is there came some point in time when you crossed this line of thinking about being a whistle

blower to making the choice to actually become a whistle blower. a lot of people through that decision making process? >> when you're in positions of privileged access like a systems administrator for these sort of intelligence community agencies, you're exposed to a lot more information on a broader scale than the average employee and because of that you see things that may be disturbing but over the course of a normal person's career you would only see a couple of instances. when you see everything you see them on a more free defense basis and you realize some of these things are actual abuses and when you talk to people about them in a place like this where this is the normal state of business, people tend not to take them very seriously and move on from them. but over time that awareness of wrong doing sort of builds up and you feel compelled to talk about it and the more you talk

about it the more you're ignored and told it's not a problem. until you realize these things need to be determined by the public and not somebody hired by the government. >> talk about how the american surveillance actually happens? does it target actions of americans? >> nsa and the intelligence community in general is focused on getting intelligence wherever it can, that it believes on the grounds of self-certification that they serve the national interest. originally we saw that focus narrowly taylored. now increasingly we see that's happening domestically and to do that, the nsa specifically targets the communications of everyone. it injusts them by default. it collects them in its system and filters them and analyzes and measures them and stores them for period of times simply

because that's the easiest, most efficient and valuable way to achieve these ends. while they may be intending to target someone associated with a foreign government, they are collecting your communications to do so. any analyst at any time can target anyone. i have the authority to wiretap anyone from you to your accountant to a federal judge or the president. >> just coming over the wires of the washington post, confirming that snowden was their source as well. guardian and the washington post. so snowden says he has reasons

of conscious for leaking those secrets. >> you can see that it is an impact and it will be an important leak. there are more than 1,000 people holding top secret clearance and many do not have the option to disclose anything they choose

because they think it is important information that the government should release to the public. i think to decide on his own that he's going to commit a felony and he is willing to do it i think is a dangerous philosophy to follow and it could be devastating to national security. >> i want to read this and then go to lisa.

>> privy to this intelligence as member of the intelligence committee. i think we're going to be getting more. the story has not broken down along party lines. some people see this man as a hero. >> you bring up a very good

point. lisa, she talked about being a hero. i don't see myself as a hero. i don't want to live in a world where there is no privacy. he says i understand this he will be made to suffer for my actions butly be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon are revealed even for an instant. >> that's the key, john, what is the rest of the world going to think? he is saying he wants to seek asylum not just from hong kong, where he is staying, but all countries. he said i intend to ask for asylum from all countries who believe in free speech. you saw what happened with bradley manning with the leak of the wikileak documents that it

enlisted a lot of world debate over this was -- it was illegal as far as u.s. standards but whether it was immoral and whether bradley manning was doing a public service or hurting u.s. and world national security. >> and this same thing with the wikileaks founder, but it's interesting because as you said, somebody will say that he is a hero. he is saying that he will be vilified especially for the u.s. government. he also says that in my ways the government will try to shape the argument and use the media to do it. he says that in the second part of his interview, which we will play for you after the break.

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to talk with an insurance expert about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? >> welcome back. on breaking news this evening is the identity of the man who sent the obama administration into defend and explain mode. he is an american former cia employee. he spelled out a secret surveillance program. gave an on camera interview to the guardian. here is more of it. listen. >> one of the extroeaordinary parts about this is usually

whistle blower do what they do anonymously. you have decided to do the opposite, which is to declare yourself openly. why did you choose to do that? >> i think that the public is owed an explaination of the motivations that are outside of the democratic model. when you are subverting the power of government. if you do that, it is as the government does when it wants to benefit. it will give a mandate to go hey, tell the press about this thing and that thing. the public is on our side. but they rarely, if ever do that. that falls to individual citizens. but i'm not.

i'm no different from everybody else. i don't have special skills. i'm just another guy who sits there and watches what's happening and goes this is something that's not our place to decide. and say i didn't change this these. this is the truth. this is what's happening. you should decide whether we need to be doing this. >> have you given thought to what it is that the u.s. government's response to with what they might say about you or depict you or try to do to you? >> yeah. i could be, you know, rendered by the cia. i could have people come after me or any of their third party partners. we have got a cia station just

up the road in hong kong. i'm sure they're going to be very busy for the next week. that's a fear i live under. you can't come forward and be completely free from risk because there are such powerful adversaries that no one can meaningfully oppose them. they will get you in time. but at the same time you have to make a determination about what it is that is important to you. if living unfreely but comfortably is something you are willing to accept and i think many of us are, it's the human nature. you can get up every day. you can collect your large paycheck for relatively little work against the public interest if you realize that that is the

world that you helped create and it's going to get worse with the next generation and the next generation to extend the capabilities, you realize that you might be willing to accept any risk. make a decision about how that is applied. >> why should people care about surveillance? >> even if you're not doing anything wrong you're being watched and recorded. increases every year by orders of magnitude to where it's getting to the point that you don't have to have don't anything wrong. you simply have to fall under suspicious by somebody. they can use the system to go back in time and skrcrutinize every decision. and paint anyone in the context

of a wrongdoer. >> also here on the phone is our foreign affairs reporter. i'm going to go to lisa first. we're getting word from the administration on the nsa in particular. >> the information that we're getting. josh is saying that the white house is declining to comment on the the white house will have no comment tonight and that is the information that we are getting to gi you that news. i'm going to get now to elise. you're hearing what he is

saying. the public should be deciding this. if there is any information that the government wants to get out, they will leak it to the press and tell the press information that they want the press to have and vilify the person who may be giving it. >> certainly it is curious as to why he would let himself be known saying that he wanted the focus to be on the documents and the debate. you have seen now that right now in the last couple of days the story has been about the nsa program and about whether it's -- whether it's using these type of means to invade on the privacy of the u.s. >> we're not talking about that program any more.

i think he is he is saying that he wanted to be on the program. it does give the administration an out to stop talking about the program. then there was a state department employee that has been charged with leaking documents. the focus goes away from the alleged wrong doing and now to these individuals. >> your assessment of what he said in the last part of the interview? >> well the problem is he's not a true whistle blower.

he is not exposing activity that is illegal or improper. that is based on a court order. the authority to obtain the records from the phone company. it's law and being reviewed and operated by all three branchs of government. >> those who support this man, they would say it's a question of the constitutionality of

what's happening. this program has not been tested by the highest court in the land, the supreme court. he is calling for a reopening of the pariot act. that's one thing that they could do. and the senator well known libertarian. he is saying he wants this to go to the supreme court. so the question for those who oppose those programs is of the constitution alty perhaps more than the legality. >> is this a matter of principal? >> he is afraid for his future and talks more about why he did it and what's next for him. the rest of the interview right after this.

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>> breaking news. we learned a short time ago the name of a man now confirmed as the person who leaked classified government information to two news pamers. the guardian and the washington post. edward snowden did it to inform the public about what's being done in their name. those are his words. we're playing a long on-camera interview he gave the guardian newspaper. here is the last part of it. >> we are currently sitting in a room in hong kong, which is where we are because you

traveled here. talk a little bit about why it is that you came here and specifically specifically there are going to be peek who speculate that you may defect to the country who many people see as the number one rival of the united states, which is china. that would be seeking to aid an enemy of the united states, which you intend to seek asylum. can you talk a little about that? >> sure. there is a couple of assertions in those arguments that are embedded in the questioning of the choice of hong kong. the first is that china is an enemy of the united states. it's not. there are conflicts between the united states government and the chinese government, but the peoples inherently, we don't care. we trade with each other freely. we're not at war. no armed conflict and we're not

trying to be. we're the largest trading partners out there for each other. addition additionally, hong kong has a strong tradition of free speech. mainland china does have significant restrictions on free speech. but the people of hong kong have a long tradition of protesting in the streets. the internet is not filtered here. no more so than any other western government. i believe that the hong kong government is actually independent in relationship to a lot of other leading western governments. >> if your motive had been personal and material gain, would there have been things that you could have done to advance those goals? >> absolutely. anybody in the positions of access with the technical capabilities that i had could,

you know, suck out secrets and pass them on the open market to russia. they always have an open door, as we do. the entire intelligence community and undercover assets around the world. the stations and what their missions are. if i had just wanted to harm the u.s., you know, you could shut down the surveillance system in an afternoon. i think for anyone making that argument, if they were in my position and you live a privileged life. you live in hawaii and make a ton of money, what would it take to make you leave everything behind? the greatest fear that i have regarding the outcome for america of these disclosures is that nothing will change.

people will see in the media all of these disclosures. they will know the lengths that the government is going to grant themselves powers unilaterally. to exert greater control over american society and global society but they won't be willing to take the risks necessary. they like to stand up and fight to change things to force their representatives to actually take a stand in their interests. and then the months and years ahead, it's only going to get worse until there will be a time where policies will change. because the only thing that restricts the activities of the surveillance are policy. even our agreements with other sovereign governments, we consider that to be a stipulation of policy rather than a stipulation of law.

because of that a new leader will be elected. they will flip the switch and say that because of the crisis, because of the dangers that we face in the world, some new and unpredicted thread. we need more authority and power. it will be turnkey tyranny. >> tom fuentes is joining us from florida and elise. how is the government going to handle this. talk to me about the extradition to hong kong. >> it raises a lot of questions as to why he chose hong kong. he said that he chose the city because they have what he called a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent and he thought this was one of the few places that he could resist, you know, the extradition of the u.s. government. the u.s. does have an

extradition treaty with hong kong. it was signed in 1996 before the handover from the british back to the chinese, but the chinese did stipulate when the treaty was signed. they were a party to the treaty. the hong kong government, the government, it belongs to china will decide whether to extradite it. certainly it is interesting. what is going to happen with the chinese? this could provide a lot of intelligence to the chinese. there are all right calls for his extradition. likely this gentleman will face extradition to the united states

and that's a unpredictable process for washington. it remains to be seen whether the hong kong government or aided by the chinese will keep him there. >> he has said that he has prepared never to return to the united states. he says all my options are bad. that is a quote from him. he said yes, i could be rendered by the cia. he knows he is probably never going to come back to the united states if he chooses to. >> he could be brought back down without being rendered. we don't have extradition with the main mrc. when congress congress was turned back over from the british to the chinese. we did extraditions in organized crime cases and finance crime

cases. they can bring the charges and make the formal requests to the chinese government. extradition is a lepty process. the second option is once those charges are brought for the serious felonies that he is admitting to having committed, the department of justice can request his passport to be -- and authorities can immediately deport him. and under international law, deportation can be made back to the most recent country or to his country of citizenship. in this case it's probably the united states in both. so, he can be brought back here under several processes that don't involve going over and grabbing him and rendering him as he put it. >> let's talk about something. he said if i wanted to, i could

have surveillance or tap anyone from you to the president of the united states. doesn't the rbi keep track? >> his exact words is that he would have the authority to do that. i request that. having the capability to do that is one thing. that doesn't mean he had the lawful authority to pick and choose who he wanted and to do that. it employees can get on your line and check it any time they want. they are allowed to do that with the exception of being allowed to maintain the lines. they can't sit on that line and listen to the conversation and decide how lock they want to do that. they can only do it for a few seconds.

>> the fbi is not directly doing that. >> and the people have access? correct? >> when you say access, the fbi can issue a subpoena to the phone company or to a business for business records and those record s would be made availabl. as far as trying to intercept the phone conversation, that is a whole additional process. or whether it's the court judge. and overseen by the federal judge. so the fbi does not unilaterally have the authority to wiretap anybody or obtain the records on

their own. this comes under review. >> what does all of this mean for the president of the united states, attorney general and more? we will talk more next. la's known definitely for its traffic, congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment. we're headed the same way, right? yeah. ♪ [ panting ] uh... after you. ♪

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breaking news on cnn.

the name of the person who released the information. edward snowden talked to the wa washington post and the guardian newspapers. he says he released the information as an act of civil disobead yans. >> even if you're not doing anything wrong you're being watched and reported. it's getting to the point that you don't have to have done anything wrong. you simply have to eventually fall under sis suspicion. >> right now he is holed up in a hong kong hotel prepared for the suspected fallout. it is a stunning revelation in this week's saga on the top

secret government program that can track phone call information on americans home and overseas. what should happen to edward? is it a felony to release classified information? what should happen? >> i am really conflicted. part of me wants to see a statue erected in his name. if you don't have freedom of the press, what's the use of having a kounry, but he also seems to be making his own rules. what it was is that the american

people were not aware of what was being approved by the government. so, you know, what happens to him? i would like to see him brought back to the united states and have an honest conversation about homeland security. at the end of the day, that is what this is all about. >> sit a felony to release classified information. >> i think we have to remember that whatever happens to snowden is going to set precedent. we're not talking about video games hire but the real deal american lives and security of our homeland. i think they're going to focus on that. i don't think this is going to be as partisan as some may think. i think when it comes to national security, there is

unity by the large part in our congress. a lot of americans regardless of party, feel like i feel right now. wondering how it could possibly be that this young man who looks like i should finish burping him. what are we going to do with him if to make sure this does not happen again? >> members of congress calling for him to be prosecuted. stick around and we will talk more about that after the break. [ male announcer ] it's intuitive and customizable,

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>> back with the coverage in the breaking news. you said you want the u.s. to bring him back here and have an open conversation. but ls, is the government surveillance worth the trade off? are we willing to give up some privacy? >> i would say so. personally, i definitely would. and to be quite honest with you, i have spoke on the a lot of people in politics and government. i have a hard time finding a lot of people who are surprised by enemies and any of the information that is being talked to right now. i'm not saying that's a good thing. i'm saying there has been a

level of understanding since 9/11 that the government has been overlooking our shoulder for a long time and this revelation is not as shocking as it is being played in the media. >> you said this guy is just past the time for you to be burping him. i spoke to tom and said just because he may have the capability to do it doesn't mean that he can do it. >> i think, you know, what we are yet the determine just exactly how much of what he is saying is true. and i do agree with what lz just said. who would have thought before 9/11 that we would be going through the airports taking off so many articles of clothing and putting our hands up and going through a body scanner? it is something that we are

accustomed to. it is a reality that we live in a new world and a dangerous world and there are bad guys who are constantly trying to harm us. and it's what we >> yeah. this is going to be the buzz next yeek. washington. thanks to you guys. we appreciate it. other news to tell you about tonight. another victim from friday's mass shooting in california has died. a young woman in the wrong place at the wrong time. that's straight ahead. ♪ chances are, you're not made of money, so don't overpay for boat insurance. geico, see how much you could save.

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architect and designer who says live with less than lead to happier, more compelling lives. >> this main space transforms into five different rooms. >> hill is building microhousing that is anything but meager. starting with this 420 square foot apartment in manhattan. >> new york city, you're going to have some guests come. >> you could have guests here. >> yeah, absolutely. >> just a couple of bunk beds. these come out. there's this cool ladder thing that comes down. >> we have so much more space and so much more stuff that we did 50 years ago that you would think we'd be happier, but in fact, happiness levels have basically flat lined. >> the best part of living with less, more freedom to do what you love. join me saturday, 2:30 p.m., on cnn. we have some other news to tell you about tonight. the death toll from friday's mass shooting in california has risen to five. the families of marcella franco

says the 26-year-old has succumbed to her injuries. she was with her father in an suv on the campus of santa monica a college when they were shot. her father, carlos, died. the gunman has been identified who was shot and killed on campus by police a day before his 24th birthday. he killed husband father and brother in a santa monica house before carjacking a woman and firing at a public bus on friday. police are still searching for a motive. very latest in the breaking news right after the break. ink e more about the land than probably anyone else. we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.

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staff, just talented temporary workers hired when needed and ready to embrace a new professional mantra. >> i guess sort of the idea that the job you create for yourself is the most stable job you have. >> reporter: he's not alone. one business study estimates there are already more than 17 million americans who no longer work for companies but sell their skills day by day, and that number could jump to 23 million in the next few years. >> yeah, freelancing is happening everywhere. >> reporter: at the freelance reunion in new york, the founder, sarah horowitz, knows all about it. >> it's really a phenomenon where people are hardworking and just putting together a bunch of projects and work in fields ranging from being a doctor, to a programmer, to being a nanny. >> reporter: not much like a traditional union, her group helps its members take on all the tasks that employers used to manage. networking for the next job. marketing their skills. and the toughest part, managing health care. by combining their purchasing

power, she says group members get insurance for 40% less than it would cost them individually. and for all the headaches -- >> because they don't work that 9:00 to 5:00, they can be home when their kids come home from school, they can still do the things they love, the projects that many of us say, well, we'll do that when we retire. >> reporter: and she suspects many freelancers despite some economic jitters are feeling more free because they left the everyday office behind. tom foreman, cnn, kansas city. hello, everyone, i'm don lemon in the cnn newsroom. we are going to begin tonight with breaking news at the top of the here on cnn. the person who says he leaked top secret information about a government surveillance program has emerged from the shadows and identified himself. he is edward snowden and he says he was privy to classified details of the so-called prism program when he worked for