erin burnett "out front" starts right now. the man who leaked information about the nsa's surveillance program says he did it to safe guard privacy and liberty. today the director of that agency testified that that program foiled dozens of terrorist attacks. question we are asking tonight is the tradeoff worth it to americans. pope francis seems to admit there is a gay lobby working within the vatican. does he see it as a threat. and her family fought the system and won. a young girl gets the lung that could save her life. let's go outfront. good to be with you. i'm brooke baldwin sitting in for erin burnett who is covering

the presidential election in tehran tonight. first stopping terror. today the head of the nsa testified before congress that surveillance programs like the one leaked by edward snowden last week are crucial to our national security. >> it's dozens of terrorist events that these have helped prevent. >> is the u.s. government collecting too much unnecessary data in the process? senator patrick expressing skepticism about the mountains and mountains of information that the government is collecting. >> all of those millions have been critical? >> that's correct. >> is critical information perhaps details that could have stopped the boston bombers

getting lost in the shuffle? dana bash is on capitol hill where i know you spent your afternoon watching this hearing. you heard some of senator's skepticism. what about the other senators? were they buying the argument? >> i think it is fair to say most were not. it was really in a bipartisan way that the senators were expressing skepticism. it was clear the nsa director came with ways to illustrate how he believes the programs are working. you heard him talk about the fact that dozens of terror plots have been disrupted before they occurred. that he was pressed on. he said it was part of other programs that really helped to thwart them. there is a another program called prism which has to do with the government getting into private internet use. he talked about how that led the

government to know about a plot to blow up new york subways. said that wasn't the only way they were able to stop that. that was the initial way they found out about it. it was very clear that the senators from the most conservative to the most liberal said that is well and good but they are concerned that the web of data that the government is collect may not be used for good. >> we are about to have that conversation. going back to your point which was the initial headline the fact that general alexander, the nsa director saying dozens of attacks have been thwarted. why no number? >> he was very clear because that number is still classified. he is going to be back here on capitol hill for a classified briefing tomorrow with all senators. they are going to be able to ask him that question. he said he will be able to answer it in a classified

private way. he said he is working with his staff and other members of the intelligence community to make public to you and me and others what the numbers are and how many terror plots were thwarted and how within a week. he was very, very careful with the way he said that he had declassified information. he said he would rather take a public beating and people think i'm hiding something than to jeopardize the security of this country. >> dana bash on the hill for us tonight. i want to push this conversation forward. joining me former deputy director of national security of the fbi. and mark, senior national security correspondent for reuters. welcome. mark, let me begin with you. when we talk about the massive amounts of data. we know nsa is building a $2 billion facility outside of salt lake city just to contain all of

this. according to the chief of the nsa it has thwarted dozens of terrorist attacks. is that it? does the end justify the means? >> we have to be skeptical until we see the evidence as to the success rate of the data. i know for a fact that in the past intelligence officials claim certain plots were thwarted and it turns out that wasn't entirely correct. let's see the fact there. we know of two or three very high profile plots including the boston marathon plot and the attempted underwear bombing of an airliner headed for detroit on christmas 2009 where the u.s. had traces of intelligence and h foreign governments and the

father of the would-be underwear bomber out of yemen that there were bad people around and these people were bad and there should be lookouts for these people. the government was unable to do anything with these traces even though they conducted an investigation. so at some point you get so overwhelmed with information that you can't necessarily sort the needles out from the hay stack. >> it is interesting the fact that the stack is getting bigger and bigger and we need better people to find the needles. given the information you immediately think of the conversations and the data involving perhaps tamerlan tsarnaev. we saw what happened in boston. is there too much information that the system is overburdened? >> i think the boston case is

irrelevant here. you have two guys who are largely off the net. they were home groewns. are you sure we would have found something there? i'm not sure. i think there is a very simple question here, the word surveillance is too narrow. if you want to understand a conspiracy in the 21st century you can send 20 people out with shoes on to follow you or you could say let me look at the phone data, internet data and i will tell you whether it is you or me or mark i can draw a picture. that is invaluable. >> what about the issue? when you look at the polling it is interesting. when americans are asked about being surveilled the majority of americans do not approve of the collection of phone data from ordinary folks but they do approve of the collection of data in terror suspects. you see the numbers here. how is it possible for the

government to stop terror, to monitor the bad guys, if you will, and to not surveill the american people? >> well, of course, it is impossible. phil is right about that. but i would also make the point that in the case in people like tsarnaev and the underwear bomber, you are not looking these days for 9/11 plotters. >> they brought it up at the committee hearing. >> what you are looking for is the very sort of isolated individuals who radicalize themselves watching over the internet. that is what the most recent plots have been related to. as phil said arguably that data isn't going to find it. you are not talking about large conspiracies but about a couple of guys. it is not necessarily spottable through the data situations. is the masses of data helping you? >> your final thoughts and

adding to that, do we -- should we be taking the government's word on the news that they say they are thwarting terrorist attacks? does the american public deserve more information? >> i think they do because the question isn't about terrorism. we understand as americans in terms of our physical privacy what the limits are. in an airport you can be checked, at the grocery store you cannot. we have a digital foot print and we don't have an understanding of how privacy relates to that foot print. we have to have that debate. >> thank you both so much. this is just thunderstoe beginn still to come tonight the pope admits there is a gay lobby within the vatican. does it make the church vulnerable. her father was murdered and for nearly three decades she vowed to find the killer and now she believes she has. we have news just in on the

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we are following breaking news out of colorado where a disaster emergency has been declared because of this unstoppable wildfire. look at it for yourself here. these flames have burned through 97 homes. this is according to the sheriff's office. the flames are a serious match

because the officials have just said the conditions are unpredictable. victor blackwell is out front. >> reporter: we know it is burning in two directions, northeast and northwest. because of those conditions it is becoming even more difficult to fight. we know there are 500 firefighters working on this. imagine the worst possible conditions, a hot, dry, windy day. today the temperature hit 90, the humidity is down to 10% and the winds are sustained 10 to 15 miles per hour with gusts of 25. now, we know that this fire has burned up to 8,000 acres already. the sheriff who is holding a news conference now says that can grow to 12,000 and there is still more work to be done. i'm going to step out of the way to show you what we are seeing all day we have seen this ash cloud over parts of colorado springs. we have seen pops of dark smoke.

that means something man made, something with chemicals, vinyl, fabric, pressure treated wood, paint is burning. those are homes. 97 burned. 92 a total loss, five with some type of fire damage. >> you think you are looking at a cloud and instead it is a wall of snow. thinking about the folks in colorado tonight. our second story secret gay lobby inside the vatican? pope francis acknowledges the existence of gay lobbies. he was quoted by saying this, there are holy people, truly holy people but there is corruption. they speak of a gay lobby and that is true, it is here. we have to see what we can do. the pope's remarks come months

after reports that his predecessor may have been forced out by a gay group implicated in a leak scandal. out front tonight cnn contributor father beck. the vatican, they are not going to take it all on the pope's remark. when you hear gay lobby what might he be referring to? >> brook, of course, we have to assume that there are gay men, gay priests. 10% of the population is supposedly gay so probably 10% of those are gay. gay lobby i think is a confusing term. we use lobby to mean someone putting forth a certain agenda lobbying for a cause. gay lobby would mean lobbying for gay causes then they should be fired because they are doing a poor job of it with regard to

the catholic church. so that is not what we are talking about. probably gay clique is a better word. the concern is this. if there is, in fact, a gay group, it makes them perhaps more vulnerable, some have said for blackmail. they were supposed to make a report back to pope benedict. they did. some said in that report there was mention of a gay lobby that made the vatican vulnerable. so that seems to be what is resurfacing here in the remarks of pope francis, again off the record remarks where he refers to the gay lobby and says now we have to deal with it. what that means we do not yet know. >> i like how you say it helps us understand not a gay lobby but a gay clique. what might that mean for the

church's stance on homosexuality? >> it is only problematic if we find out the clique is active sexually. the church teaching -- the church is not against homosexuality. the church realizes that homosexuals exist. the church says celibacy and the priests are supposed to be celibate. if they are not keeping vows. there were some reports saying that some were seen as gay bath houses in rome. if that were the case that would open up to scandal then. so perhaps could these priests be blackmailed by those who had something against the vatican to make the vatican more vulnerable, perhaps. that was the concern when the report was released. >> father beck, thank you. a growing number of doctors

opting out of the insurance system, refusing to accept private or public insurance. what does that mean for your coverage. and the man accused of holding three women hostage for more than a decade was in court today. the surprising admission his lawyer made. next good news and bad news for this biker. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in. with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises.

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our third story, cash for care. a small growing number of doctors are opting out of the insurance system. five percent have gotten so fed

up with regulations and paperwork that they are refusing to accept either private insurance or government programs like medicare. christine romans reports that some critics think patients may be paying too high a price. >> reporter: dr. michael was fed up. >> just have a seat. >> reporter: the family doctor from portland, maine used to boo lots of paperwork, so much it was taking time from his patients so earlier this year he stopped taking medicare and other insurance all together. >> we ask patients to pay at the time of service just like you would be expected at a garage. >> reporter: under the new system the prices are marked. $75 for an office visit. $150 for a physical. that is in line with with what he was receiving from medicare. with less paperwork his operating costs are lower. >> we have had real cost sasks

already in that that we have been able to cut the staff down. we employee to support me. he says he has more time to focus on patients and make house calls. for many patients they can't pay out of pocket. he admits his model works best for those who either lack insurance or who have high deductibles. another family practitioner understands the frustration. >> the idea of a stream lined simplified billing practice is attractive. a lot of us hunger for a simpler structure to practices where it can be about the care we give to patients. >> reporter: but in this community dr. clark said he couldn't turn away as many

senior patients reliant on medicare. some critics say other groups would be vulnerable. >> there are not many patients who are able to put up with this. very rich patients could do this but a lot of low income people couldn't afford the fees. >> reporter: with endless bureaucracy and costs out of control some doctors are trying different tactics to stay in business. christine romans, cnn new york. the man accused of holding three women captive for a decade was in court today. ariel castro faces more than 300 charges. plus her father was murdered when she was merely a little girl. for nearly three decades she searched and searched for justice and she now may have finally found it. and this explosion killed more than a dozen people and

vaporized part of a town. why fema says it will not help rebuild. but first tonight's shout out. this motorcycle barrelling down the road, loses control, smashes into the car in front of him. he was okay. that would have been the end of it except for one thing. the car he hit, it was an unmarked police car so after being hit the officer decides to jump out and introduces himself with a friendly hello. cops have such a tough job. tonight's shout out goes to this biker for making that officer's job so easy. i'm a firefighter. i'm a carpenter. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price.

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we start second half of the show with stories we care about where we focus on our own reporting from the front lines beginning with fema. fema is denying the city of west, texas money to rebuild after the deadly plant explosion. in a letter fema says the cost of the remaining work is within the capabilities of the state and the local government. we spoke to west mayor who says pipes were damaged that were not covered by insurance and the

city has faced large numbers of lost tax revenue. he says president obama is so far behind us we can't see him anymore. after six years in hiding alleged mob boss is standing trial charged with murdering 19 people. today a prosecutor recounting crime after gruesome crime called bulger a hands on killer. earlier today i talked to john who once ran cocaine for whitey bulger. he describes the advice bulger once gave to him when he was arrested. >> he said to me it takes a strong person to reach inside themselves and say i'm here because of me. you know what, he should follow his own preaching today right now. he is an angry man. this is his last hoora.

>> trial is expected to go on for three months. and tomorrow a sold out carnival triumph is heading back to sea. this is the same ship that four months ago left thousands of passengers stranded without power and dare i add, working toilets and showers. carnival says it has spend $150 million to fix everything and then some. there is even a new burger joint and tequila bar. we checked with the cdc and even though cruise ships are subject to two unannounced sanitary inspections per year the triumph hasn't had one since july of last year. our fourth story trying to avoid the death penalty. today ariel castro pleaded not guilty to more than 300 charges of rape, kidnapping and

murderer. castro head down. some attorneys saying the plea is meant to avoid a trial. >> a not guilty plea at this stage requires the prosecutor to continue to evaluate their case and determine whether medical and forensic evidence can actually support an aggravated murder conviction for the death of a fetus and whether the death penalty is warranted. >> so the attorney says his client is willing to plea guilty to all of the charges except for the charges of murder to claims that he forced the murder of the children. it would take death penalty off the table. mr. dwyne i want to talk about

the death penalty issue because this review board, the review committee is going to be sorting through evidence and in doing so they decide whether the case is quote/unquote appropriate to seek the death penalty. i was in cleveland. i remember when the stories and details were coming out about allegations of him kicking and punching and violently forcing the abortions. if that isn't enough to seek death sentence tell me what is. >> i think what prosecutor attorney and his team has to look at is whether or not the evidence does, in fact, fit the crime of not only aggravated murder which, of course, it does, but whether the specifications can be added for the death penalty. the prosecuting attorney has to make tough choices. i think what any prosecutor does

and what prosecutor mcghenty told me he is going to do is let his board look at this but he is certainly going to consult the victims and consult the victims' families and consult the police that have investigated this. this is what any prosecutor will do. >> you mentioned the victims. we haven't heard from these young women since the whole ordeal ended. but i want to point out the attorney of two of the young women, amanda berry and gina de jesus did say this. we understand the legal process needs to run its course. we are hopeful for a just and prompt resolution. we have great faith in the prosecutor's office. when i heard prompt resolution i thought the case goes to trial given everything you have outlined prompt may be unlikely. do you think that a plea deal would be a fair trade so that these women don't have to

relive -- let's call it what it was -- hell in the court. >> the victims are very central to this. you want to do what is right for the victims. to determine that you have to take into consideration what their wishes are. as you point out a plea gets it over with very quickly. if you don't have a plea it does not get it over with quickly. that doesn't mean you take the plea. it is one of the things that anyone has to consider. >> ohio attorney general. thanks for joining us tonight. now a different crime taking decades to solve. a cold case brought back to life through a daughter's grief and determinati determination. 26 years after a little girl's father is murdered a now grown woman has helped track down his alleged killer. poppy harlow is out front. it is like a dream for martinez.

>> what is your greatest memory of your father? >> the parties we had at the restaurant. >> reporter: after 26 years her father's alleged killer arrested, his capture thanks in large part to her. >> my family told me don't forget that name. >> reporter: she was nine. jose martinez was shot and killed outside the new york city restaurant he and his wife owned. but the suspect, santos fled to the dominican republic. the nypd says the murder case was closed in 1998 after receiving information that santos was jailed in the dominican republic. what they didn't know was a year later santos was released. >> they should not have closed the case. should have been looked at to see if there was additional information. >> reporter: in 2006 she started hunting online for her father's alleged killing delving into

websites like background.com. >> what did you find? >> i didn't know i found so much stuff. >> reporter: after years of searching -- >> let me look. i had this background check. >> reporter: she took what she found here to the 34th precinct in november. >> november is the anniversary of my father's death and i get upset. >> reporter: police say it is because of her efforts they were able to capture santos. >> it is admirable what she did. she made an effort and it paid off. >> reporter: a police source tells cnn after santos was arrested in miami thursday he confessed to murdering jose martinez. >> all i wanted was to figure out what happened. >> reporter: what do you think your dad would say? >> i think he would just hug me

and smile. he would smile a lot. >> reporter: nypd detectives are in miami and plan to bring santos back to new york friday. he will be arraigned next week and faces second degree murder charges. poppy harlow, cnn new york. how about that? still to come tonight a 10-year-old girl who fought and fought the system to get a lung transplant is finally getting surgery. one of our guests says maybe she shouldn't be getting this transplant. plus the sign that says all restaurant employees must watch hands after the bathroom, does it work? a new study has the answer.

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we are back with tonight's outer circle where we reach out to our sources all around the world and we begin in iran with erin burnett. she will be there live at this hour tomorrow night with reporting on the iranian presidential elections and erin is on the ground with a preview of what is going on there. here is erin. >> this is tehran. final couple of days before the

presidential election. we have been spending the day at head quarters. traffic is terrible. a lot of people here are actually coming -- all of them have had something to say to us. some of what they have had to say has been pretty shocking. some of them have been positive about engaging with the united states and the west. others have been completely the opposite. we have had incredible access and we are really excited to share it all with you. our special report begins tomorrow night live on outfront here from iran. >> it is incredible. erin will be live from tehran tomorrow night hours before the polls open in iran's elections. do not miss that live report. let's check in with anderson cooper with a look at what is coming on. >> i hope she has better luck

than i had. i was arrested for three days. >> a lot of people aren't allowed in there. she got access. >> more on the breaking news. we look forward to what erin is doing tomorrow. more on the breaking news. this weather phenomenon called derecho. we'll go live to colorado where the wild fires are still 0% contained. you will hear from sarah murnaghan's mother about today's surgery that has just ended and given the 10-year-old a new lung. and king saying journalists involved in the scandal should be punished and made direct allegations saying he was threatening to reveal identities of cia agents. we are going to talk to glen tonight on the program. i will speak with cbs this

morning about the source, where snowden may be now and should the u.s. be concerned about him sharing classified information perhaps with china. >> we will see you at 8:00 eastern. anderson mentioned sarah murnaghan. breaking news, a new shot at life tonight. 10-year-old sarah murnaghan who needed a new set of lungs in order to survive is just out of transplant surgery. that is just into us here at cnn news. we talked about on the show murnaghan's family has fought long and hard to change the rules that kept those under the age of 12 from receiving adult organs. after appealing they went to a federal judge who last week temporarily waived the rule. jason carroll is outfront. you are at the hospital. she is out of surgery. how is she?

what do you know? >> reporter: that is what we are hearing from a family spokes woman who sent me an e-mail saying that sarah had come out of surgery. that right now she is in icu and apparently is doing as well as to be expected. she is still not out of the woods yet. this was a very difficult surgery. there could be a lot of complications. at this point we are hearing she is doing well and she is out of surgery here. just before 5:00 when 10-year-old sarah was still in surgery i managed to get her mother to come down and speak to us as well as her aunt about what this whole experience has been like for them and their entire family. >> hostly relief because since saturday she has been in a medicily induced coma and it has been hard. mostly feel relief. i'm a little nervous. my baby is in that operating room. i'm trying to focus on we did it. we have lungs.

and she has hope and a future. >> reporter: and her family also wanting to make the point that the real hero in all of this is the donor that made all of this possible, something possible now that would not have been possible two weeks ago. >> we wish her and the family well. we will look for the mother on ac 360. sarah's story is raising questions about the fairness of america's transplant policy. outfront cnn contributors. hello, gentleman. we heard the news. she is out of surgery. let me begin with you. it is a tricky story. 75,000 people on a list for a transplant in the u.s. this young girl and her family they got everyone's attention including that of this federal judge. do you think what they did was fair? >> i think for them -- first of

all i want to say i'm happy for her and her family. we all want to live a great life. there is someone else who doesn't have the lung transplant. while it is a feel good story for sarah there is someone else who didn't get the transplant because her family went around the rules. ten percent of the people don't survive. someone else is there with their family wanting their child or their brother and sister to survive. going around the system created under federal law is problematic. it gets rid of the confidence we need in the system. >> at the same time can you fault this girl's family for banging down the media's door? all of the hurdles they had to go through. >> i think this family was incredibly scrappy and tenacious

and did everything they could for their daughter. the bigger issue is that we have a serious shortage of organs. we have a more serious shortage of pediatricic organs. the fundamental problem but a funend mentally we ha to do one of two things, move to a system where we assume that everybody who dies in a traffic accident or what have you has consented to become organ donors where now you have default into the system and let's say you have to default out of the system that would increase the supply of organs available for donation. the other thing you can do is simply say look, we're going to allow, say the, medicare system or say some other approach for people who make those donations who are taking a risk. it's not that big a risk but a risk to get compensation for what they are doing rather than depend only on the kindness of their hearts -- >> but in terms of -- let me

jump in and dean, you, too, because the idea of paying for organs -- >> right. >> there is a list for reason, a list of need and acuteness for a reason. the idea of paying for organs, whoever has the biggest pursestrings not related to -- >> brooke, that's absolutely not what it means. we could have one organization that could compensate people. you can't make your own deals, rather let's say you have the medicare system say we'll offer a rate, a modest rate. we're offering some compensation the risks people are under taking. >> dean, i want you to jump. >> you get the final word. >> on the first part we have a system presumed -- >> presumed consent, yes. >> the idea of having a conversation of organs -- >> there is laws. >> very politicallpolitically. >> celebrities shouldn't get better treatment under the system.

we have to have fairness in the system. >> fairness because people die because they don't get organs isn't fairness at all -- >> let me jump in -- >> the poor will suffer -- >> let me jump in. >> let me jump in, gentlemen. >> it's very successful. it's very safe. >> if you are touched, no matter how you feel, if you're touched by this story check the box become an organ donor. thank you very much. every night we take a look outside the day's top stories. there is something we called out take, washing their hands one vt best ways to avoid getting sick and yet according to the shocking study, almost none of us do it correctly. researchers at the university of michigan discretely watched people in public restrooms, maybe even you and found 95% did not wash their hands correctly. the average person spends a mere

six seconds scrubbing, nowhere near the 20 seconds the centers for disease center recommends and not using soap, 20% not using soap and 10% left without washing their hands at all. gender played a part, 15% of men didn't wash their hands compared to 7% of the ladies. might not entirely be our fault, though. the researchers found the appearance of a bathroom, the appearance of the bathroom played a big part. the nicer, the cleaner the restroom the more likely people would hang around and wash their hands. i would like a little champagne for the bathroom and the signs we make fun of, employees wash hands sign. they work apparently. when that was present employees and people were more likely to scrub down, and now you know. you wish there was more transparency in the world, wait until you can see through

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see-through brains. >> surface part of the brain -- >> reporter: this doctor isn't your typical dr., an innovator. he won many awards, a whole new way to look at the brain. high tech cameras look at images never captured before and only possible through a scientific breakthrough. it's called clarity, and this picture shows what happens. on the left a completely intact brain from a mouse. on the right, a brain that is completely transparent. it's there but almost invisible after being bathe in a solution invented by the doctor and his team. >> really, it was the inability to see anything at all that was the most exciting thing, and that moment was really, i think, a transformative moment. >> reporter: later through the use of you get these images and

had to be sliced open to get an inside view. >> reporter: so you lose something by taking it apart? >> you do. this technology called clarity is a way to see through the brain without taking it apart. >> reporter: with the brian fully intact scientists can study it more thoroughly. >> to look inside the brain like this and look at all those various pathways that we've speculated on for years to see them actually come to life, it's -- it's fascinating. >> reporter: the process involving submerging a whole in tact brain into a solution called hydro gel that makes it easier to extract lipids or fats. by getting the unprecedented view of the human brain the doctor and his team hope it will lead to an unprecedented understanding of diseases like al timers and parkinsons.

the long-term hope is it leads to treatment and development of those disorders. >> we don't understand how the brain creates reality, hope, sensatio sensations. if we don't understand that, we can't understand how it fails to work in these diseases. >> reporter: the bio tech technology is simple but could further our knowledge of something extraordinary complex. dan simon, cnn. dan simon, cnn. >> ac 360 starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com breaking news tonight. wildfires hammering the northwest and it could get much worse very soon. tens of thousands of americans are in the path of this, later in the show tonight he came to court in handcuffs but what happens to the three young women