trial today, the prosecution star witness facing another day of cross-examination. turning their words in. turning it into trayvon martin was profiled. we turn to the latest on that and the other key developments. this captivating testimony, what stood out to you? >> there were a number of thi s things. this is a young lady going up

against don west. they were going toe-to-toe. west was able to question the credibility of some of the statements she made implying she said certain things in testimony. she was saying something different when she got on the witness stand. sometimes it was the words she attributed to george zimmerman. sometimes she left out the racial remarks. it went back and forth like that. other times, it was less about the testimony and more about a test of wills. take a listen. >> so the last thing you heard was some kind of noise like something hitting somebody? >> trayvon got hit -- >> you don't know that, do you? >> no, sir. >> you don't know that trayvon got hit. you don't know that trayvon didn't, at that moment, take his fist and drive it into george

zimmerman's face, do you? >> no, sir. >> the no, sir could be interpreted as she didn't know that, but denying what west is saying. >> in the testimony, there were a lot of questions about race. how did that play out? >> well, you negotiation race has been a key factor in this story from the beginning. that's what took it from a local tragedy into a national debate. today, what don west was trying to say is look, it has been george zimmerman portrayed as a racist. the shoe is on the other foot and pointing in the direction of trayvon martin. listen. >> what did he tell you that made you think it was a racial event? >> the person watching -- keep watching and following you.

i used to be stalked from that person. >> what is one thing about what trayvon martin told you that made you think it was racial? >> describing the person. >> what? >> describing the person that was watching and following him, sir. >> he described him as a creepy ass cracker? >> yes. >> it was racial, but it was because trayvon martin put race in this? >> no. >> you don't think that's a racial comment? >> no. >> you don't think that creepy ass cracker is a racial comment? >> no. >> i have to say, anderson, that was a jaw dropping moment, to just about everyone, certainly me, that is a strong comment. she did not see it that way. >> thanks.

let's dig deeper with sunny hostin, jeff toobin. suny, let's start with you. her on the stand, especially the defense spending a lot of time on race, how do you think that played out? >> it was hard to tell from the courtroom. it didn't seem to advance the ball much for the defense. they made much to do about the comment that trayvon martin said to rachel. he also described george zimmerman with the "n" word. certainly, he described him in two ways, with a derogatory white term and derogatory black term. they took pains not to talk about race and didn't say racial

profiling, took the elephant in the room, painted it bright pink and i don't think it stuck. >> mark, what do you think? >> i tell you, you put a spin on this that is mind boggling. this sounds like a very sweet girl. i'm sure her parents love her. everybody is texting me, they want to know where you got your necklace. >> oh. >> the thing that remains is this was a disaster. the family realizes, trayvon's family realizes it was a disaster. crump is prepared for any verdict. they know where it is headed. this is the star witness. the wheels came off and it was a train wreck. there's no way to soft pedal it. this was a complete, unmitigated disaster. >> do you agree? >> i don't think it was that bad. >> no. >> she is a problematic witness, no doubt about it. >> you think?

>> i don't think she's as critical to the case. we are calling her the star witness over and over again. the prosecution isn't calling her that. she establishes one thing, zimmerman was following trayvon martin and he was nervous about that. later in her testimony when she talks about trayvon saying get off me, that's much more questionable testimony. i'm not sure the jury is going to believe that. she's not the whole case, she's part of the case. i don't think this was a train wreck. i think she's a problematic witness. >> they are able to pick and choose what they believe from her. >> the jury will be instructed you can choose to believe all of her testimony or none of it. that is their power. they are impowered to do that. they are going to say, do i relate to this person? we find people credible that we

can relate to. is this someone they relate to? i don't think they will. ultimately, what do you have? take racism and all the race talk and throw it out. they are not elements of the crimes or self-defense here. look at what the witness tells us. she gives us a glimpse into trayvon martin's mind. those words are derogatory. they are spoken in anger. they are words that give us an idea of what trayvon martin is thinking at the time. contrast that with the 911 call, the dispassionate 911 call of george zimmerman. then, if you believe this witness, she says trayvon martin says, why are you following me. george zimmerman says what are you talking about? does that sound like language of someone hunting someone down? >> i want to talk about the

language they used. let's listen. >> people that you live around and with call white people creepy ass crackers? >> not creepy, but cracker, yeah. >> so the creepy is the pervert part you were talking about? >> yeah. >> forget that for a second. in the culture that you live in, in your community, people call people there call white people crackers? >> yes, sir. >> and do they use the "n" word regularly? >> yes, sir. >> you are saying so did trayvon martin? he referred to people as crackers? >> i don't recall, sir. >> to you, what is the defense trying to do and did they succeed? >> of course they succeeded. i really am at a loss as to how anybody is going to say this was a good day for the prosecution.

understand what happens here. you have an audience. your audience is not the people watching tv. your audience is not us here on tv. it's the six people in the jury box. the six people in that jury box are not going to relate to this young lady. >> i completely disagree with that. i was in the courtroom -- >> let him finish. >> sunny, i'll explain it to you. they are not going to relate to her. they are not going to relate to this woman saying cracker is not derogatory or relate to the mumbling and stumbling. >> that's wrong. >> and thing that is are culturally different. >> that's wrong. >> as i said yesterday, save the tape, sunny. >> let's save the tape. >> this is a train wreck. >> i was in the courtroom. >> sunny, you are saying because she's authentic, she's relatable? >> absolutely. i took a look at the jury. i sat in there.

they were engaged, they were taking notes. they didn't have trouble understanding her. i think today was a better day for her on the witness stand than yesterday. yesterday, yes, she was combative and fidgety. she never strayed from the fact she said george zimmerman was following trayvon martin, pursuing him and approached him. that is so significant. >> i would like to take a little bit of a middle road between mark and sunny. i think she's a problematic witness. i think the jury is going to have a problem with at least some of what she says. this is about trayvon martin being shot. there's a 911 call where george zimmerman is told, don't approach him. that's the key evidence in the case. i don't think it matters whether he says cracker or uses the "n" word. this is a case about a kid who

got shot and that's what the jury is going to have to answer who is responsible for that. >> it's not exactly about -- it's not exactly about -- this case is not exactly about trayvon being shot. it's more than that. first, jeff said, they told him to stop following him. what he didn't tell you is the next word he said is okay. do we know what he did when he said okay? you don't know. when you hear we don't know, it translates to reasonable doubt. >> you are right. >> secondly, it's not about shooting. we know george zimmerman shot. this is not about a shooting. this case is about what was in george zimmerman's mind at the time of the shooting. what he reasonably perceived. the prosecution cannot disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. >> i want to play a clip where

they said race is not an issue in this trial. >> you have to distinguish when you have a situation where we see that george zimmerman is talking on the 911 tape and describing what he was seeing in trayvon martin and calling him suspicious. we don't believe it's race. the charge he is facing has nothing to do with race. bringing race into it does nothing but make people pick sides and invoke prejudice into the proceedings. we don't want that. we want mr. zimmerman to have a nice, fair and just trial. >> we are going to have more on that coming up tonight. that's different than what he said last year. let's listen to that. >> right. >> another unarmed black boy whose life was lost because of unfounded stereo types,

suspicions and theory. >> what do you make of that? >> i know what is happening here. the reason this case was galvanizing to begin with is because if anybody else besides a police officer shot somebody dead, you get arrested first, they ask questions later. anybody in the african-american community or a minority community understands that. there's obviously a kind of bubbling up of emotion because he didn't get arrested. they think it's because the kid is black. once he's arrested, the idea they now have a jury which is woefully deficient in having a minority present, the last thing anybody wants to do, if you are looking for a guilty verdict is inject race into it. if you do, it's injected all the way through the case. that is why you see the way people react today to this young

ladies testimony. those of us who have some familiarity with the culture understand and can relate. those of us who don't think she's a disaster. race is the great underbelly, if you will, of the criminal justice system. you have never sat in a criminal courtroom. race has everything to do with it? >> sunny, you agree with it? >> yeah, i do think, again, it's been woven through this trial. they didn't use the term racial profiling, but it's code. we have 911 calls or three calls that came in from george zimmerman. he describes every single person he's watching as young, black and suspicious. apparently white kids walking around aren't suspicious. latinos are not suspicious. just young, black men. to say race may not have been a part of this at all, i don't buy that. >> we have to take a break here.

stick around. we are going to have more on rachel, who she is, what she thinking of the attention and why she's been less than truthful about things in the past. inside perspective from george zimmerman's co-council and more from the attorney of trayvon martin's family. but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and save you up to thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a free decision guide to help you better understand what medicare is all about. and which aarp medicare supplement plan works best for you. with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients...

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of jujitsu. tonight, we want to look at how it's done and how the witness can help or hurt. the cross-examination of rachel has been a textbook example and so is her demeanor. i want to show two clips, one from yesterday and one from today. >> do you watch "first 48"? >> i didn't hear you? >> do you watch "first 48"? it's the -- >> i'm sorry, first 48? >> a show. >> have you seen press conferences or news what so ever? >> i told you, i don't watch news. i do not watch news. >> then we met again the next month. >> no, we met again that friday. >> hmm. >> when you did not want to interview me, that friday. >> hmm. are you finished? i'm sorry.

>> yeah. >> how much more time do you think you need to finish your cross? >> i certainly wouldn't -- i don't know for sure. i think plan on at least a couple hours. >> what? >> clearly she was not happy about that. that was yesterday. now here is a moment from today. >> are you okay this morning? >> yeah. >> you seem different from yesterday. just asking. >> is that a question? >> yes. >> did someone talk to you about your demeanor in court? >> no. >> her performance was more polished, but still raising eyebrows. she said she got sleep. randi kaye reports none of that attention is welcome for this young woman. >> reporter: rachel jeantel

never wanted any of this. no media glare, no attention, and no tough questions about her phone call with trayvon martin moments before he was shot. that may be why she lied about her age. >> did you say that you were 16 so that you could try to maintain more privacy? >> yes. >> so you wanted to make yourself seem like a minor so maybe there wouldn't be as much public disclosure as if you said your true age of 18? >> yes. >> reporter: today, rachel jeantel is 19 and her life story from what we can piece together is more exposed than she had ever dreamed. she attended miami senior high school. according to her facebook page, took classes in criminal justice at miami university. though the school tells us they have no record of her. she's from north miami, where she says she and trayvon martin met in elementary school. why do we care so much about who this woman is? because her testimony about what trayvon told her the night he died could make or break the case. if what she says is true,

trayvon martin was scared and trying to get away from a man pursuing him, a man who later turned out to be george zimmerman. but jeantel may have some credibility issues. she's already been caught lying about her age and about her reason for not attending trayvon's funeral. and then there's her vanishing postings on her twitter page. according to the smoking gun, tweets referring to trayvon and the case were removed just hours before her testimony. like this one from june 21. 16 months later, wow, i need a drink. jeantel had also tweeted about having "jack-ass lawyers on my. it's unclear which lawyers she's referring to. she's certainly held her own with zimmerman's attorneys in court. she took heat from the defense for this audio interview she gave the martin family attorney early on in the investigation. >> what did you hear?

>> some stuff? >> you heard "get off?" >> like look, get off. >> reporter: but watch how she puts don west on his heels in court about delaying his interview with her. >> when you did not want to interview me, that friday. >> hmmm. i didn't want to interview you? we didn't have an interview, did we? >> no. but we agreed to that friday. >> i'm sorry that you were inconvenienced, but we did not have the interview on friday because of scheduling issues. would you agree with that? >> you should have picked me up on thursday. >> reporter: rachel jeantel was hoping to put this behind her with this simple hand written letter to trayvon's mother. a friend helped her write it. she sent it about a month after his death and in it explains what she remembers from that night. the man started getting closer. then trayvon turned around and said "why are you following me?" then i heard him fall and the phone hung up. when the defense asked her to

read the letter in court, she said she couldn't read cursive hand writing. she later explained she's of haitian decent and grew up speaking spanish and creole. two days before her testimony began, she posted on facebook, i know i have a lot explain to do. randi kaye, cnn, atlanta. >> it never really fails, there's always one witness no matter which you take is fascinating. back with our panel. sunny, we saw rachel jeantel's demeanor change obviously from yesterday to today. some say she was less combative. she said yes, sir. you were in the courtroom and you saw the jury smiling at her at times? >> yeah, they were certainly engaged. she looked directly at them at one point, which i don't believe she had done the day before. it just seemed more relaxed. she seemed more relaxed. she was a different witness today, quite frankly.

and that happens sometimes. i've had witnesses that i've put on the witness stand, first day a disaster. they're uncomfortable, they're combative. the second day, they're used to it, they know they can do it and it's much better. i think that's what happened today. >> mark, when you're doing cross-examination of a witness like her, any witness, you want to undermine her credibility, but you don't want to come off too harsh, right? how do you go about it? >> right. i tell you, sunny, the reason -- and i think i said it last night, the prosecution took her to the wood shed last night and that's why she was different today. >> i don't think to. >> she got schooled. >> that would be improper, mark. >> come on, mark. you don't have any evidence of that. >> you mean, a prosecutor in this case acting improper? that's shocking to me. but one of the things -- >> that did not happen. >> were you there in the prosecutor's office yesterday? >> were you there? were you there? >> no, but i predicted it and i would bet you that they schooled her.

i will also tell you that don west went probably an hour too long, because at a certain point, you get in, you get out. the jury had had enough of her would be my guess. and at a certain point, the world turns and you're going to have a feeling of maybe starting to feel sorry for her. so at a certain point, you don't need to beat the living daylights out of her. she had shown she didn't have a great handle on it. she's not going to appeal to this jury, unless you put her in a position where she will. i'll agree with that. >> there's another exchange between her and don west i just want to play. >> he told me the dude was close to him. >> right. at that point he decided to approach this man and say, why are you following me? >> yes, sir. >> and he could have just run home. >> he was already by his house. he told me. >> of course, you don't know if he was telling you the truth or not. >> why he need to lie about that, sir? >> maybe if he decided to assault george zimmerman, he

didn't want you to know about it. >> that's retarded, sir? that's really retarded to do that, sir. if you don't know the person, why risk it? >> the defense tried to trip her up by implying trayvon martin started the fight that night. let's play that. >> but the reason you didn't do anything about it, tell anybody what you had heard, come forward to the police, is because in your mind it was just a fight. correct? >> yes, sir. >> and in fact, it was just a fight that trayvon martin started. that's why you weren't worried. that's why you didn't do anything. it was because trayvon martin started the fight and you knew that. >> objection, compound question, badgering the witness. >> you may answer. >> no, sir!

>> but you thought it was just a fight, because it was one you knew that trayvon martin was planning to start. >> no, sir! he would have told me, sir, and told me to call him back or he'll call me back, sir. she's making stuff up, but she goes along, the idea he would have said he was going to call me later if he was ghoung going to start a fight. >> she said repeatedly, no, sir, he did not start this fight. >> that's right. but the jury is now going to understand the defense theory of the case in a very direct way. >> more than that, style points to attorney west. i mean, look at the subtleties here. first he asks her, would he have followed him and fought him? she says, you don't know the

kind of guy trayvon martin was. and almost a second later, she says oh, well, if he was going to start a fight, that's the kind of thing he would have told me, which implies this is the kind of thing he would have done before. those are subtle points and it demonstrates to a jury she's improving this as she goes along. she's writing this and giving the answer that she thinks best helps the case. she's already been caught fabricating to make a better story for the person present. we look at that first interview and she admits to leaving out words and fabricating. is it the end of the world for her? probably not. those minor details. but i think you have to give the attorney credit. this is some masterful cross-examination, and he's advancing the defense theory of the case by using the techniques of cross-examination. >> we have to leave it there. more with our panel coming up with sunny, jeff, danny and mark. stick around. coming up, i'm speaking with george zimmerman's defense attorney about how he thinks rachel jeantel's testimony played with jurors and how his client george zimmerman is feeling.

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attorney darrell parks and his partner have been handling legal matters for the trayvon martin family. parks was sitting with the family in court. i played a bit of my interview with him tonight. here's more of that conversation. appreciate you being with us. as the martin family attorney, how do you think rachel's testimony went today? >> i think rachel's testimony was great, anderson. she stood fast. her testimony waconsistent and

as you see, she, through various attempts to impeach her, held her own. >> she seemed less combative in her testimony today than yesterday. did you or any of your colleagues prepare her for the testimony or give her advice on what to do differently? >> she has her own counsel in this case. however, remember yesterday she came in the latter part of the court day. so she was tired and most people in court were tired. we went fairly late. so i believe that she was just tired. obviously, once she was given a chance to rest overnight, came back and she was a great witness. she was very respectful to the court and gave very concise answers. >> you're saying neither you or mr. crump gave her advice? >> no, as a matter of fact, i believe she was in custody of the agents. we had no access to her. >> did you feel that the defense attorney don west was too harsh with her today? >> well, i think mr. west's

presentation spoke for itself. i try to make sure that i don't criticize lawyers and their styles. but i think that, you know, i don't believe mr. west is really connecting with that jury. but we'll see from the verdict. >> you gave a press conference after court today where you say the martin family wanted to make it clear that race was not a part of the process. but a lot of the prosecution's opening statement was about george zimmerman profiling trayvon martin. >> anderson, i think you have to distinguish that. when you have a situation where we see that george zimmerman is talking in the 911 tape and describing what he was seeing in trayvon martin and calling him suspicious, we don't believe the focus is really race. additionally, the charge that he is facing has nothing to do with race. >> so you don't believe that george zimmerman felt trayvon martin was suspicious because he was african-american? >> no, i think he saw a person who had a hoody on, who was walking. he didn't know who he was.

it was a rainy night, it was dark. so he thought he was seeing some of the previous conduct that he had seen in his neighborhood. he decided at that particular point that these people always are getting away with it and on that night he was not going to let it happen. >> when he was referring to, you know, these people or blanking punks as he said, you don't think that was in all a reference to african-american youth? >> well, i think he saw someone that he thought was highly suspicious. someone he thought was up to something bad and wanted to do something about it. i think it's important for purposes of where we are now, we're in a court case, bringing race into this situation does nothing but make people take sides and invoke some prejudice into the proceedings. we don't want that. we want mr. zimmerman to have a nice, fair and just trial. >> you're sitting with trayvon martin's parents. how are they holding up? we've seen them get up a number of times when the testimony is very graphic.

how are they holding up? >> it's very tough. so they're taking it piece by piece. i think the state is making sure they try to give some advance notice about some of the sensitive parts. you've had examples where trayvon's face was shown. it was tough for tracy, because that was one of the pictures he used to identify trayvon's body and showing that picture invoked that. so that was a sensitive moment. and mom has had some issues, just hearing some of the 911 tapes and hearing the gunshot that killed your child is very tough. they're maintaining, they are here to see it through. they are very encouraged about what they see and hear in court and the job the state of florida is doing to present this case. >> appreciate your time. thanks for being on. >> thank you for having me. on the other side, attorney mark o'mara is defending george zimmerman. i spoke with him. good to have you on again. rachel jeantel has been on stand

for the past two days. do you think her testimony went well for the defense? she was billed as the prosecution's star witness. >> i think she was a reticent witness, i don't think she wanted to be involved. she waited so long and was found out almost by happenstance. i was most concerned with her testimony but the way she started with it, with mr. crump's interview, sort of off record without law enforcement there. and even more problematic was the interview with her when she was sitting right next to trayvon martin's mother, when she was supposed to be giving her first law enforcement statement. even in that statement, she didn't tell the truth on a number of issues. but i think she didn't want to be there. she was reluctant and that sort of showed up in her testimony today and yesterday. >> stressing in the court today about the presence of trayvon martin's mother during that interview with law enforcement, to you that says what?

that there's potential that either she was changing her statements to the police based on the family being present? >> well, she testified that she did. she testified when she was talking to ben crump and the mom was there, and when she was talking to trayvon's mother was right next to her on the couch, tearing up and crying, that she lightened up on her testimony. you have to wonder why any law enforcement officer, particularly a prosecutor with 30 years of experience, would risk taking a statement from a witness in front of the deceased's mother. you have to know that there's going to be some impact. as she testified yesterday and today, there was some impact, because she didn't say what she heard on the -- on the telephone. she actually went light. she sort of modified it herself. and we don't know to what extent she modified it with curse words and who she wanted to blame. >> have you ever heard of police interviewing a witness or a

potential witness in front of the parent of the victim? >> let me think for a moment? absolutely not. sit cop 101 and it is prosecutor 101. you have to maintain the individual nature of a witness' testimony, make sure that they are absolutely not impacted or biased by the situation that they're in. we know you can't do it with bright lights and a rubber hose. you also can't do it taking a statement in front of the deceased's mother. >> you held a press conference after court today and stated you may have to ask her additional questions. why? >> well, there are certain issues that may still become relevant, talking about trayvon martin's history and his background. my hope as i said from the beginning is we don't go there and we try this case simply on the seven or eight minutes that happened around his passing or just before his passing. however, if in fact the state tries to present something that

needs to be rebutted by a sort of looking into trayvon martin's past, then this witness who knows pretty well and gave some colorful statements as to what trayvon martin said as far as race and some fighting may well become relevant. i hope not, but we may have to get that on the record. >> how is your client, george zimmerman, feeling about how the trial is going. can you say? >> well, he's very afraid. he's frightened, because he felt that he did something he had to do to protect his own life, and now other people are trying to put him in prison for the rest of his life because of it. he's been stressed for a year and a half trying to get to this point. now he's dealing with the reality that he's got the state of florida trying to say that what he did to save his own life was a crime. that's a frightening position to be in. >> thank you. coming up, another witness on the stand, someone who made a 911 call after hearing screams.

the key issue, was it zimmerman or martin heard screaming? we'll tell you what they said on the stand. back in a moment.

what's made this case such an ink blob test is so much of the evidence is open to interpretation. do george zimmerman's injuries show life or death? who was on top of whom in the fight? whose scream was heard on the 911 tape? what did the neighbors see and hear? today, jurors heard the 911 call made by neighbor jenna laur and heard from her as well on the stand. here is that recording.

>> 911, do you need police, fire or medical? >> maybe both. there's someone screaming outside. >> what's the address? >> [ bleep ]. >> is it a male or female? >> sounds like a male. >> you don't know why? >> it sounds like shots. >> does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see him and i want to go out there and i don't know what's going on. [ screaming ] >> do you think he's yelling help? >> yes. >> there's gunshots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> how many? >> just one. >> she testified she muted her tv after hearing voices. she describes it as a three-part exchange. she said she cannot identify what was being said. then she heard scuffling, that turned to yells and cries for help. the question is what can be gleaned from the testimony and the tape?

back with our panel. juny, jeffry and mark. sunny, you were in the courtroom. do you think either side made progress in identifying or convincing the jurors whose voice was on that tape? >> no, i don't. i think that both sides sort of left it out there. we know that there are screams on the tape. but no one definitively identified who the screams were coming from. i think that really laid the ground work again for really a showdown in court between trayvon martin's family members and george zimmerman's family members. i know that they will have to get on the witness stand and identify those voices. and we'll see who the jury believes. perhaps the jury will just come to a conclusion on its own. i want to say something, anderson. everybody ridiculed rachel for saying she heard wet grass. this same witness discussed hearing sneakers on wet grass, yet no one is talking about that, and i wonder why.

>> mark, what about that? and also the defense attorney mark o'mara got the witness to admit it could be george zimmerman calling for help. i want to play that part from today then have you comment. >> you said that it was difficult for you to identify that screaming voice as that of george zimmerman, correct? >> yeah, i couldn't tell whose voice that was. >> have you ever heard george zimmerman scream like the person was screaming that night? >> never. >> would you consider those screams to be life threatening screams? >> yes. >> did it seem that it was the screams of somebody who was getting beat up? >> they were being hurt somehow, yes. >> maybe somebody who was having this done to them. >> it's possible. >> have you ever seen this picture before? >> yes.

>> could those screams have come from somebody who was having this done to them? >> objection, speculation. >> mark, what do you make of that? >> i was wondering how long it was going to take the prosecutor to object to speculation. i'll go back to sunny's point. i agree with sunny about the wet grass, and it's precisely the point i've been trying to make. the prism through which you look is going to inform how you look at this case. so you hear one witness or see one witness say something, and if you're white, you view it one way. if you're black, you view it another way. when you hear these screams, it's going to be the same thing. the prism through which you look or hear those screams, if you believe that george zimmerman was the attacker, you're going to believe it was trayvon martin. if you believe that trayvon was, you're going to say that it was george zimmerman. it's one of the fascinating things about this case. it's like a racial test, when you're watching -- >> wait a second, mark. i'm not sure that's true. who is to say that black people and white people see these

things differently? do you have evidence of that? >> yeah, i -- [ both talking at same time ] >> i think that this case does break down not strictly along racial lines but along racial and political affiliations. i think it's like every other case? when i say this, it's informed based upon what i see going on in criminal courtrooms throughout this country every day. you know, one of the great -- as i said earlier in the show, one of the great untold stories, maybe not told enough, is that racism informs the criminal courts. it just does. >> do you argue with that? >> i reject that notion. i reject that. i think a black juror can find a white person guilty and a white person can find that george zimmerman is guilty. >> it happens every day. >> i agree with both of those, but i think that, sunny, one of the reasons that the supreme

court came up with challenges based on race is because prosecutors have, for almost a century, exercised their pre-emptory challenges based on race, which the court said you cannot do. if racism was not informing the criminal justice system, why would the u.s. supreme court go to that extend? why do cases get reversed because prosecutors are exercising pre-emptory challenges. it's mind boggling that anyone is discussing the fact or having a problem with the idea that racism is alive and well in the criminal court system. >> mark, i don't think anyone is disagreeing with the fact that there is racism in the family. the issue is can white jurors decide this case? and that i think is very different from the larger issue of racism. i think your conclusions about how people react to this evidence solely on racial

grounds, i just don't think it's supported. >> we're out of time. we'll have it again. mark, sunny, jeff, thanks. just ahead, former nfl star aaron hernanz charged with first degree murder, now being investigated in connection with another case, a double homicide. we'll be right back.

let's get caught up on some of the other stories. susan hendricks has more. susan? >> the former vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general james cartwright, is the subject of a justice department investigation involving material in a book by "new york times" correspondent david sanger. that's according to a source familiar with the probe. nbc news is reporting that cartwright was told he's under investigation for allegedly leaking classified information about a u.s. cyber attack on iran's nuclear program. cnn has not confirmed that detail. in his book, sanger wrote about the computer virus that affected iranian computers. officials have not commented, nor from cartwright or his attorneys. late word tonight that massachusetts police are seeking an additional man in the murder of oden lloyd, his name is earnest wallace. he is considered armed and

dangerous. aaron hernandez is charged with murder in that case. and a source says the former nfl tight end is also being investigated in connection with a double homicide in boston a year ago. a massachusetts grand jury returned a 30-count indictment against the bomber. 17 charges carry the possibility of the death penalty. anderson? >> susan, thank you very much. that's it for us. join us again tomorrow night at 10:00 eastern for a special "360" coverage of the george zimmerman trial. "early start" begins after the break.

former south african president, nelson mandela, critical, but stable condition this morning. president obama heads to that country this morning. will they meet? the world watching and waiting. where is nsa leaker, edward snowden. will any country give him asylum and will the u.s. hunt him down? what is today's shocker in the george zimmerman trial after a friend of trayvon martin said race helped lead to his death. >> good morning, welcome to "early start." i'm christine romans. >> i