philanthropy, it's the fact that cher puts up with me, anderson cooper, creepy fan girl. that's what makes her so awesome and puts you on the "ridicu-list," if you're a who is the real george zimmerman? >> do you know a person named george zimmerman? >> very well. >> would you consider him a best friend? >> best friend i've ever had. >> part of the language [ bleep ] punks -- >> that is ill in spite? >> it is. casey anthony, the man in court with her joins me and divides america, issues of race, class, not trayvon martin, o.j. simpson was acquitted. have we not learned anything.

star jones who said you'll never get a perfect witness in any case, especially this one. i want to begin with day seven of the trial america is talking about and debating. martin is live. what is your overview of how today went? >> reporter: well exactly right. it was a day that had something for everybody in this case, whether the defense, prosecution or sitting on the sidelines rooting each. i think one of the highlights had to be the medical examiner that came and went on the stand. that's dr. valerie rao and she had very interesting exchanges, both with the prosecution and with the defense. but i want to start off with when she was being asked by the defense about were there any injuries to trayvon martin, his body, that was a particular paint. were there injuries to his hands, listen. >> those are cuts, abrasions

because cut suggests force injury and actually where the skin is rubbed off on trayvon martin's hand, correct. >> are those consistent with >> any laceration injuries? >> no. >> reporter: now the medical examiner actually spent a lot of time not talking about the victim in this particular case but the injuries to the defendant, that's george zimmerman. she said the injuries she saw, she never actually physical saw him, looking at photographs, medical records, she said they looked insignificant and she really didn't believe his head was slammed onto the concrete as badly as zimmerman had said, which a was a key point for the defense.

>> the other witness mark who was zimmerman's best friend. he wrote a book, the fact he claimed george zimmerman told him that trayvon had actually grabbed the gun. >> reporter: yeah, right, and we should point out it was him who encouraged zimmerman to buy that gun in the first place but you're right, in his testimony on the stand today he says quoting his book that at one point george zimmerman told him that trayvon martin not actually just went after the gun but physically got his hand on the gun. that's crucial, again, from the court today. >> you didn't refer to the holster when you wret it down in the book, correct, you just put gun -- >> correct, because the holster is exactly the place where the holster holds the firearm in place. so whether it was the actual firearm or holster, i didn't see a difference if someone grabs a hold of the holster or the gun during intent is probably the same.

>> the prosecution sees a big difference, because what they will point out is there was no dna of trayvon martin found on the gun or fingerprints of trayvon martin found on the gun, hence, he didn't touch the gun which is showing zimmerman is not quite telling the truth or getting it straight. >> what can we expect tomorrow? >> tomorrow, i think we'll probably hear from the person that actually did the autopsy, but the most interesting person will be a professor that taught law enforcement law to zimmerman. the prosecution will try and point out george zimmerman knew a lot about law enforcement, there by he could file the investigators. that could be very fascinating. >> could be fascinating. martin savidge thank you very much. terrific job on a dramatic court case. joining me to break down the twists and turns in this case so far, welcome to you both. it's very, very difficult to

assess this case, despite everybody's efforts to say it's not about race without bringing the race element into it, isn't it? >> oh, absolutely. this case is shot through with race from the very beginning. we saw the way the police responded to the killing of trayvon martin. we saw their failure to investigate, the slow investigation, the fact they tested trayvon and not zimmerman for toxins on the body. this is a racial utilized conversation and since the trial started. it's only gotten worse. when rachel took the stand, when the term cracker comes up, that become as racial conversation. i mean, it's unimaginable that trial isn't about race. the question is can the jurors make an objective determination not from a place where race doesn't exist but hold it at arm's length and make a fair judgement. >> we heard george zimmerman in his own words use phrases like

a-holes, punks and so on. the one thing we haven't heard from him is anything racial and if you study his background with terms of other people he had reported and so on, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he's being a serial racial profiler in that sense. you know, is it -- is it unfair to him -- >> yeah -- >> to suggest he is a racial profiler? >> you know, i think those are two different things. there is no evidence he's a serial racial profiler. he seems to be somebody who makes himself a law enforcement agent and decides who is dangerous and isn't. when he saw a young african american male with nothing but skittles and a hoodie, that racial profile turned into a killing. that's the problem. he shouldn't be let off the hook for this. this was racialized determination.

>> jane wine trap, difficult question for you is if trayvon martin had been white, would george zimmerman have gone to all this trouble to follow him, report him and generally treat him like a criminal suspect, he's been called a suspect even through the attorneys in the courtroom? >> i think he would have, piers, and the reason i say that is based on who george zimmerman is. he's the want to be cop. he wants to be the neighborhood watchman. if he saw somebody in a hoodie on the raining night, he didn't see the skittles or anything in the person's hand and i don't think it's about race. i think it's about what was in his mind at the time that they came into contact with each other and sure, racial profiling, if that happened, is wrong. it awful. it's even a crime. it's a civil rights violation, but that's not what he's charged with. he's charged with second degree murder, with hatred and ill will and the first speaker just said he doesn't think he's a serial racist.

so he doesn't evince the hatred and ill will that necessary -- >> no, no, again, i said he wasn't serial. i didn't say this wasn't serious. he did it this time. i'm just saying there is no evidence -- >> look -- >> there is a black guy, he said there is a dangerous guy but there is nothing inheritly dangerous about a hoodie -- >> and the only people that are talking about race are the prosecution witnesses to evince a motion. let's remember what the evidence was. you know, i was a former prosecutor -- i was a prosecutor, hold on. the police determined there wasn't sufficient evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, which is what they need to prove a case. so two weeks later, the prosecutor giving, i think, outside pressure, desided on her own to make the charge of murder, and i believe that she sure comed to the apparent pressure. remember, that in florida, we have a grand jury. if it was the community pressure, she could have given

this case to a grand jury and decided what, if any, charges to bring. she didn't do that. she's an elected official -- >> jane, jane, jane, let me jump in -- >> that argument. >> mark, let me just ask jane a question. do you accept having said all this that had george zimmerman simply stayed in his vehicle, he had already rung the authorities. they told him not to pursue trayvon martin. if he stayed where he was, did what he was told. the police would have showed up -- >> then we wouldn't be here. nobody should be armed. >> exactly. so why -- why should george zimmerman not be punished -- >> because he's not -- >> for ignoring advice he was given, getting out of the vehicle, following trayvon martin and getting into some altercation, pulling out a gun and killing him in cold blood? surely there has to be -- >> i'll tell you -- >> doesn't there have to be some accountability? >> because he didn't get out of his car to go kill him. he got out of the car to check it out -- >> that's --

>> should he have had a gun? of course, i don't think anyone should. as a parent of a 14-year-old and 21-year-old i look at this as what a tragedy but a lawyer analyzing evidence, piers and that's what we have to do. we have to look at the evidence. we don't make a moral judgment -- >> let's look at the evidence -- >> the state -- >> excuse me, the state is trying to refute -- >> flordia. >> the state is trying to refute a case that they cannot even prove. that is what is going on -- >> no, no, no, actually, no, that's not -- that's actually not is what is happening. the state is making a defense and the -- >> really they are making a case? >> let me finish -- let me -- let me finish the thought before you disagree. the fact of the matter is that george zimmerman got out of his car against police orders. not -- >> that's not a crime. excuse me, that is not a crime. that -- >> you're -- >> that's a factor --

>> the factor -- >> i'm schismly responding -- >> no, no, no. >> you want to talk about the law or morals? >> okay, let me jump in. let me jump in. let me jump in. >> your argument -- >> let me ask you this, jane, let me ask you this jane. you mentioned you had children. if this had been one of your kids a bit older killed in these circumstances would you really have been happy that the person that did this walked away without any accountability whatsoever forfectively killing your child in cold bloold? >> piers, would i be happy? imagine the question. the question really behooves the answer is this is a tragedy there is nobody that won't say this isn't an awful, horrible tragedy and you're right, that shouldn't have happened, however, however, we have laws to abide by in this country and laws that keep us in chip with one another. for example, let me tell you about a florida law, a jury

instruction this jury will listen to. rachels, the police officers, valerie rao who i had as a medical examiner on the witness stand many times and others, this is what the judge will tell this jury in weighing the evidence. did the witness have an opportunity to see and hear what they are testifying about? think about the witnesses that have testified. did the witness have an interest in the outcome of the case? think about that. do you think rachel had an interest in the outcome of the case sitting next to trayvon's parents? i'm not saying it's a racial issue -- >> okay. >> you have to examine what the law is. >> have to leave it there. thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. >> this debate will keep going. this is going nowhere until the end of the trial. my next guest was a prosecutor in the o.j. simpson case and ended in acquitted 18 years ago. you heard the debate there. it's impossible to talk about this case without it turn sboog

-- turning into a race debate. what is your take on the zimmerman, martin court action we're seeing? >> it's a race case without question. it was made a race case before being filed. the defense played the race card the other day introduce add statement made by trayvon when he referred to zimmerman as a cracker. and so, race is -- race is the case. >> how do you see it playing out? i mean, obviously, florida has a particular set of laws, which are pretty supportive of what george zimmerman did. if you believe his version of events. >> well, how do i see it playing out? >> yeah. >> well, i think that -- i think this is a case for the defense to lose. i think the prosecution has an up-hill battle. i'm not sure i could have filed this case had i been the prosecutor, whether there was political pressure to do so or not. we do have laws. we do have rules.

and the right to self-defense is a law that existed in this country since the begin sglg we only have zimmerman's word for it -- >> true. >> that he was acting in self-defense. >> that's the problem. we only have zimmerman's word -- >> we can't hear from trayvon martin and him getting out of the vehicle, ignoring advice he's been given on the phone by the police to not follow him, all that stuff we know is true does not lend itself to a guy trying to avoid trouble. >> but it doesn't lend itself to murder, either. the problem here is, as you say, the only person that really knows what happened, who can really speak to what happened and speak the truth, one would hope, is zimmerman who has every reason not to be truthful and not to be honest. >> right. >> i think as the prosecution picks away at stories and prior statements, i think you see that he has not been entirely honest in his description of what occurred, but all the defense

has to do is raise a reasonable doubt. the prosecution on the other hand, has the burden of proof. they have to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. >> have you seen evidencely that proves that to your satisfaction? >> that proves murder? >> yeah. >> no, not yet. >> murder, the possibility they could convict or a lesser charge? >> i think if a jury concluded that his so-called belief in the need to use deadly force was unreasonable, then, yeah, so you get to manslaughter. a compromise verdict, and that's what it would be, a jury compromising. you know, the prosecution has thrown down the gauntlet. they filed murder, they want murder. and i don't know that a jury would necessarily come back with manslaughter -- >> let's talk about the jury. in yr case you had a jury that was predominantly female and black. here you have a jury which is predominantly female but predominantly white.

>> yes. >> how much of an impact will that have potentially, as we saw in the o.j. case, could we see a similar situation here? >> it's hard to say and i've given thought. the jury makeup in this case and why the lawyers chose these particular jurors. and it's hard to say. to sit in the courtroom and be lawyer in that trial and even though you're not speaking to the jurors directly, to have a reaction, see them, you get a sense of who they are and their views and how they react to the evidence. we can't really see that -- i can't really see that. so i'm just not sure. i mean, why these six individuals i suppose to some others, you know, a lot of people will say the case is lost by the prosecution, that, you know, the racial makeup of the jury was a factor. >> one key aspect could be a lot of people in florida have guns. i think at least four members of

the six-woman jury have family members that have guns and they may believe you can have one. >> having a family member with a gun, is different than having one yourself. >> o.j. simpson got into a whole new heap of trouble after your trial with him. what are your thoughts on him today and what happened? >> when the trial ended and when i wrote a book about the trial called "incontempt" on the back cover i said we all get ours in has certainly gotten his. -- he i mean, he is very lucky -- >> do you believe he's serving for the case you brought against -- >> no, he was found not guilty of double-murder in l.a. there shouldn't be penalty for that. he is serving for what he did in las vegas, which was stupid. when we come back, casey anthony's attorney, he was in the courtroom today. i'll be asking him where he

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casey anthony was a target of intense public anger during her trial, as is george zimmerman now. one of the best friends describing zimmerman as the most hated man in america. he defended casey anthony and in the courtroom today and joins me now. good to see you again. must be a really interesting friend as the most hated man in america. you represented a woman who was described many times as the most hated woman in america and both in contentious cases. when you were in court today, what were you feelings? >> i was not in court today. i watched part of it and told mr. o'mara not too many days

ago, his client is only hated by half the people. casey, apparently was hated by everybody. >> what do you think of the case? do you think that george zimmerman is going to get away with this? i don't mean that in the sense of he's an innocent -- a guilty man made innocent but will he get away with the fact that he did kill somebody without any punishment in the end? >> well, i don't know that, piers. the fact of the matter, he's been charged with second-degree murder, and i've tried to watch some of this case, as much as i could, and what i have seen is a total absence of the necessary elements to convict him of second-degree murder. there has been in evidence of ill will or spite or actions and depraved mind. those have to be proven to have second-degree murder and i haven't seen any of that. the case is not over.

every time something goes on, there is good and bad. one side gets some points. the other side gets some points. this is a case of -- like we've seen, it's not going to be over until it's over. i agree with what i heard mr. dardon say a few minutes ago, that will is a stronger likelihood, i'll say that, of a compromise verdict for manslaughter. and it would be -- if there is, it would be aggravated manslaughter because under florida law, manslaughter of a child, defined of someone under 18 is an enhanced penalty. what the jury won't know and people won't know, while second-degree murder can be punishable by life in prison under the florida criminal code and the citizen guidelines, there isn't a lot of different between the penalty.

it's only a few we're years between second degree murder and aggravated manslaughter. >> you famously advised your client, casey anthony, not to give media interviews. george zimmerman of justly did and we saw some of those being played out today in court. was that a mistake, do you think? >> in my opinion it was a horrendous mistake. i don't know the count but between mr. zimmerman talking to the police on the evening in question, the next day, a reenactment, talking and discussing the facts with a medical attend dent, talking with his friend who wrote a book, and then going on that tv show that was shown today, there's at least a half a dozen times that he has talked and from what i have heard, it seems like on each of those circumstances, there have been some inconsistencies. now, i don't know hw material or

important but there are little things he's said contradicting himself from statement to statement, that's why you don't let them do it. it should never have been done in my opinion. i can't imagine why the lawyers allowed him to do that. some of those were before he had a lawyer. the friend that wrote the book, the police officer, if he's his friend he should have told him to shut up and not say anything until he had a lawyer but he talked and talked and talked and it didn't do himself any good -- >> tell me this -- >> possible -- i'm sorry, the only possible good he could have done is he don't have to get on the witness stand. >> tell me this. when you say there is no intent, kind of evil, malice, all the criteria for the murder charges, he used a holes, [ bleep ] punks, got out of his car, he

was aggressive. without those actions and without that attitude in his head about the type of person he believed he was following, then there would have been no altercation and there would have been no death. >> i don't -- piers, i don't know that even with those things it rises to the level or sinks to the level, which ever way you want to go of a depraved mind. you talk about -- they didn't tell him not to do something. they simply said we don't need you to follow -- as i understand it, but hes was trained and they want to know -- keep an eye on where this guy is going. obviously, it would have been a much wiser deal if mr. zimmerman would have stayed in his car, waited for the sanford police to arrive, pointed out where the guy went and gone about his business. we cannot undo what happened. can't change the fact.

he made a decision and turned out to be a bad decision. that, however, does not translate into proof beyond a reasonable doubt of the elements necessary to convict him of second degree murder. remember, he doesn't really have to prove anything the way this case is going. the state has a burden of proving beyond an exclusion of every reasonable doubt that george zimmerman did not have a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm, not whether you did or i did or somebody else did, whether george zimmerman had that reasonable doubt. if the jury finds he did or there is a doubt, a reasonable doubt as to what he did, then they have no choice but to find him not guilty. >> how helpful or unhelpful was the testimony of rachel jeantel, trayvon martin's friend? >> you know, piers, i've been

asked that several times the last several days. i'm reminded of a prosecutor that made a closing argument in the first murder case i tried 40 years ago, and his words were to the effect you can't necessarily pick your witnesses, it would be nice if you could walk around with 20 nuns, so that anything that happened you would have 20 nuns to testify for you. now this is what the prosecutor got. they have to deal with her. i think it's unfortunate. i don't know her or didn't talk to her. but what i saw and what i see now is that she displayed an attitude, a personality that doesn't have credibility, and i don't think my personal belief is that -- was she telling the truth or not, i don't believe that any jury, certainly not this jury, is going to convict mr. zimmerman based on what she said to say, convict him of anything but that's not the end of the case. she's only one witness and a lot of things she said no matter how arrogant she was, the fact of

the matter is many of the things she said or seemed to be born out by the timeline of the events that happened. so, you know, the jury will have to wrestle with that. they are entitled to judge the credibility of a witness and give it whatever weight they want to. they can believe a witness in part or not at all, or everything they say and the judge will instruct them about that. so i'm sure they would like to have had a better witness, but that's what they got. they didn't have the nuns. >> attorney, final question about your client, casey anthony, how is she doing these days? she's been through a tough time. we've discussed that several times on the show before. >> well, of course, casey is still having to live in isolation and in secret. she can't go out in public. there are still morons out there threatening to hurt her, just

like there are those from time to time still threaten me and my family because we won. she -- casey is resilient, though. any woman that can spend three years in solitary confinement, go through the trial that we did and survive as she has, you got to say she's got some good stock in her. she is enjoying some small victories in the bankruptcy court and i hope it soon will be over entirely and she'll be able to have the fresh start the federal bankruptcy law says she's entitled to and if it works out that way, now we can start talking about what her future will bring. she has some hobbies, some things she likes. she wants to go on with her life. the question is, the real question is where and when and how? she can't go out in public now and it's been two years, two years ago this week. >> and you eluded to threats that you yourself have received

v. you had death threats you and your family? >> of course, hundreds. been going on since before the verdict was out but after the verdict, yes. i have -- law enforcement pays special attention to things and monitors calls to my house and mail as necessary. we're very precautious about what goes on, as well. indeed, there are people out there, i think i probably told you this before, piers, there are some people that are going to keep on wallering their ignorance and stupidity until they die. those that won't accept the fact casey was found not guilty. let's move on with it. still today, you know, why do people do that? you know what? the same kind of likelihood is going to face mr. zimmerman if he's acquitted, it will be that, as well. >> yeah. -- >> and his lawyers --

>> i've got to leave it there unfortunately but always good to talk to you. thanks so much for coming on the show. coming up, she's a former homicide prosecutor, she calls the attacks on rachel jeantel disturbing. star jones is in the chair. meet the newest member of the quicken loans family: j.d. power and associates has ranked quicken loans highest in the nation in customer satisfaction... i say "family," because we've been blessed with this honor for 3 years in a row... rest assured we'll treat all of your mortgage needs with tender loving care. amazing client satisfaction: it's a quicken loans family value. call 800-quicken or go to quickenloans.com to experience it for yourself.

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joining me now, a woman that has a lot to say about the zimmerman trial and rachel jeantel in particular. she's a former prosecutor and spokesperson. star, great to have you back on the show. >> thank you. >> it really is a case i think dividing america and americans. everyone has an opinion,

impossible to keep race out of it, but the evidence of rachel jeantel is controversial. you heard him being squaiting about her. what is your reaction to the young black woman in a very difficult situation that she didn't really want to be in? >> you know, i'm glad that you pointed out that this is a young woman who was in a difficult situation, that she didn't want to be in. one thing that the previous guest said that i completely agree with is that as a prosecutor, you don't get to pick and choose who your witnesses will be. we don't get to pick and choose who our victims are going to be, who saw what, when they saw it or where it took place. rachel jeantel happened to be the young woman on the phone with the victim of a homicide moments before he was killed. she didn't think that that was the last conversation she would have with trayvon martin. she was not thinking that she

would be put on center stage, and be made to look like -- i don't want to use a word that upsets me, but made to look like an idiot, which is exactly what a lot of people have been calling her and using as a way to really blast her, and it really disappointed me, piers, and i'll tell you why. when i saw rachel jeantel testify, i saw a 19-year-old woman from a background that may be different than the people who were judging her, that may be different from maybe the jurors who will evaluate her information and the evidence she presented. as i learned more and more about her, i became curious. she has a caribbean back ground which has sensibilities of our southern background, i was born in the south and raised in a similar fashion. these are traditions that we don't go away from, no matter

how old we are. a southern girl, a caribbean girl would never use foul language in the presence of somebody's mother under any circumstances. i'm 51 years old. i cannot tell you that i have ever used foul language in my mother's presence and i know she would look at me cross eyed if i did. i would never use foul language to somebody else's mother, and so the thought she was in someway being incredible when she left out the sort of language of a teenager talking back and forth to another teenager, and that would impact on her credibility is incredulous to me. as a prosecutor, you take on the burden of making your witness relatable to the jury, and you make that witness relatable to the jury by letting the jury get to know who that person is, and you and i have talked several

times about need for diversity and not just in juries, but in society because you can go your whole life as a white man and not encounter any of my real existence. you can go to work. you can go to church. you can go get your haircut. you can do all things that make up a whole life, but i don't have that freedom as an african american woman. if i want to live and work in the united states of america, i need to know as much as i can about you. and i don't have any issue with that, as a matter of fact rpgs i think it makes me smarter and wiser and more worldly. we don't have the opportunity for diversity around the table, you get the kinds of comments you got about rachel jeantel and it was -- >> see, here is the thing, star. i found her oddly compelling and quite credible, but then i've got three teenage sons who talk in a completely different language from the one that i do, you know, and they -- they operate in an entirely different

world, different from the one rachel is in. i get the fact teenagers, generally, any of them appear in court would operate in a different manner to a fully mature adult and unnerved by kpt per yenls. didn't really want to be there and lost one on her best friends in an appalling shooting. it didn't surprise me that she was the way she was. >> it didn't surprise me that she came across sullen. it didn't surprise me that she didn't answer the questions in full sentences. she's 19 years old. i have to say, i actually found more annoying the following day when she punctuated every sentence with yes, sir. i found that to be more incredible. i like the fact she stood her ground, he stuck to her story. she added the evidence as she recalled it. i do not think they shook her on pert end issues to the case. i don't like how women took her on.

women in the media, social media. i found it appalling that women would sort of mean girl her in terms of the way she looked, what she wore, what her weight was, how brown her skin was, how she wore her hair. i think that women and you know in my position at napw i shout this through the rooftop, women have to be supportive of other women. you don't have to believe everything every other woman says but if you engage in the tactics men engage in, we're always going to be thought of as the other gender. >> after the break, star, i'm going to ask you where you think this trial is going and your friend rhonda lee who was found murdered. you got an update and i'll talk to you about that, as well.

back now in the chair former homicide prosecutor star jones, getting lots of reaction on twitter, star, to your stuff on the last segment. donna brazil said simply star jones is speaking for me right now and i'm sure you're speaking for many people, particularly about rachel jeantel. let's get to the trial itself. how do you think this trial is playing out? you can have all the views you like and i have views and you have views whether zimmerman should have gotten out of the vehicle, under florida law as

things stand, most legal experts i spoke to do not believe the prosecution have established second degree murder. >> second degree murder is a very high standard in florida's law. as i looked -- as i looked at the law, the requirement for ill will, spite or depraved mind seems insurmountable, however, i think a skilled prosecutor can argue the facts of the case to establish ill will. i think the prosecution can argue spite. i don't have any problem with not being able to prove the depraved mind but an social security -- aspect of the murder statute can be proved. good prosecutors know how to argue the law and the facts and i don't think they would bring the case if they didn't think they had both on their side. i don't disagree a compromised verdict is something the jury

will look at and this case may be a manslaughter case. >> right. >> i interviewed sybrina fulton a few months ago and she wanted a review of the facts and the law and if she gets that, i think she will be at peace. >> let's turn to the store you you brought up last time, your friend rhonda lee strangled and found floating in a michigan lake. you haven update on this? >> yeah, i'm pleased to tell you the oakland police department have arrested and arraigned bobby lee taylor, a panty yak man. these cams can get him life in prison without the possibility of parole. it's so rare as we talked about to find and solve a stranger

murder, and in this case, we actually were able to do that. i'm not going to say that every t is crossed and every i is dotted but the police are completely convinced he acted alone, and that he is the perpetrator. so, this family has some resolution as of right now. we will, of course, be following this until the trial comes to a conclusion. >> star, you did a terrific job in raising awareness. >> i'm very glad we had on opportunity to do it. piers, thanks again. we had a great reaction to rhonda's rules which is a comprehensive list for women to make sure they protect themselves and family in case the unthinkable happens -- >> quickly, star, where can they read those? >> go straight to napw.com and click on star's corner and it's free. >> you've been great. as always, come back to see us. >> thank you. >> when we come back, the grieving family of a fallen hero.

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with rates as low as $109 per night. book now at hilton.com/getaway. but for all these symptoms, you also take kaopectate. new kaopectate caplets -- soothing relief for all those symptoms. kaopectate. one and done. the blaze that killed 19 elite firefighters in arizona on sunday is still raging tonight as tributes pour in. joining me is the family one of those, dave caldwell is the father of robert caldwell. and claire caldwell is robert's widow. thank you both so much for joining me and just my deepest condolences on your awful loss. i know that he was an absolute hero, and that can be i guess of small comfort to you now. let me start with you, dave. tell me about your son. >> robert was a brave young man. always ready to go, spent his

whole life devoted to being a firefighter. he answered the call every time, never late and was willing to put his life on the line and help protect other people. >> he was known as the smart one. he had an iq of over 150. a big philadelphia eagles fan. he had so much going for him, didn't he, claire? tell me about your husband. >> my husband was the bravest, most selfless man i've ever met in my life. he was a hero. and the thing that i want to say about him the most, and all hot shots, is that they sacrifice so much for everybody every day. so just say thank you to our hot shots. because every day this could

happen, it could have happened every time he left. so don't forget how much they sacrificed for us. he's a hero. they're all heroes. >> and dave, obviously there were 19 of these brave young men who lost their lives, one of the most appalling tragedies imaginable to any team of firefighters. it must have rocked the whole community. how are you all coping collectively? >> the fire department has been fantastic helping us out. the senate liaison is working

lot. >> and claire, you have a young son. robert was his step father. i understand the last time that he saw dave for dinner, he told his father how much he loved your little boy. it must be just horrendous for you that you lost a father and loving stepfather as well for your son. >> yeah, it hurts. the moment he met my son, he fell in love with him. all the men in hot shots, they were all family men. my robert, jesse, all of them. they were such loving parents. they were family men. >> how would you like him most to be remembered, claire?

>> i would like him most to be remembered as a hero, as a granite mountain hot shot. as a hero. somebody who gave everything for everyone every day of his life. he sacrificed everything, every day. and they all do. don't forget about the ones who are living, too. that's how i want him to be remembered. >> he was a true hero. they're all heroes. it's an appalling thing to have happened. i'm sorry for your loss to both of you and all the families connected with these brave then. i thank you very much indeed for joining me tonight. >> thank you. thank you very much. such a sad story. we'll be right back after the break. the first time i saw a sony 4k tv, it was like opening my eyes.

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that's all for us tonight. anderson cooper and cnn special, "self-defense or murder, the george zimmerman trial" starts right now. >> good evening. welcome once again to our "ac 360" special coverage, "self-defense or murder, the george zimmerman trial." self-defense or murder, how the jury sees these injuries could answer that question. as the prosecution tried to show today, are we looking at the kind of cuts and scrapes from a garden variety scuffle, one that didn't have to end with a teenager did on the grass? that wasn't all, as the prosecution tries to struggle from a string of witnesses that at times appear to help the defense. we have our team of legal experts on board tonight. but first, martin savidge sets