>> yes. i've testified 28 times in different counties in central florida prior to today. almost every time that deals with statistics. >> your honor, at this time i tender the witness is an expert in dna and statistics regarding dna matters. >> he may so testify. >> no voir dire, your honor. thank you. >> everybody by now has heard of dna, but can you briefly tell the jury what dna is? >> yes. dna stands for dioxri, ribo deknew collieic acid. every person gets half of their dna from their mother and half from their father. it's the genetic blueprint that makes each person unique. it codes for everything about you. everything from the pigment making up your eye color to the enzis in your stomach breaking up your lunch right now. >> how is dna used in a forensic setting? >> forensically your dna is found -- a copy of your dna is

found in almost every cell of your body. therefore, it can be left behind in bodily fluids that you leave behind such as blood, semen, saliva, almost sometimes hair and skin cells as well. and forensically, i could use those bodily fluids to develop what i call a dna profile. which would be to analyze the dna at certain locations on the dna molecule, develop a dna profile that could be used for identification purposes and comparison. >> are there other uses for this technology other than a forensic or criminal setting? >> yes. several fields use dna. the same dna testing that i use. it's used in medical and genetic research. it's used in organ and blood transplant donor recipient evaluations. it's used to test -- test any abnormalities in the fetus during pregnancy when they do the am knnamniocentesis.

the identification of mass disaster victims as well as the innocence project and paternity testing as well. >> is the dna profiling comparison method used in str you're going to talk about that your lab uses being accepted in the scientific community as being reliable? >> yes, it is. >> and is your lab fdle been accredited and been through all the hoops in terms of their accreditations for being finding that they're proficient, et cetera? >> yes. we are an accredited laboratory. >> okay. i want to talk about the laboratory procedures for a few minutes, if we could. do you all have an established protocol or methods in which an item comes into your lab where you make sure there's no contamination and that kind of stuff? >> yes. we have a quality assurance program that says that we have documentation of all the quality procedures. we have standard operating procedures that give specific instructions for every test that i do.

so that every person working in the lab is on the same page and one person isn't doing one thing their way and another person doing another thing their way. so we have written protocols and all of our quality assurance program is in writing. >> and are there any controls within the testing themselves in terms of positive and negative controls to verify that what you're doing is accurate in terms of not getting any misidentification or contamination? >> yes. there are positive and negative controls at just about every step of the way. before i even do the dna testing, if i'm screening for the possible presence of blood, i need to test a positive control and a negative control of blood to make sure the chemicals i'm using are working. during the dna testing, i have positive controls where i have a dna profile i need to get that expected dna profile at the end of the process to know that not only the chemicals and instruments are working, but that my techniques are good as well. there are also negative controls

at a few steps during the way. those would be blank samples. those samples need to remain blank the entire process. >> in the lab while you're analyzing evidence that's submitted in the lab, do you wear any kind of clothing attire to make sure that you don't cross-contaminate anything? >> yes. whenever i have an item of evidence open and i'm physically examining that item, i'm required to wear a lab coat, a mask, gloves and sometimes a hair net depending on the item. when i'm actually working with the tubes and actually doing the dna testing process, i'm also required to wear a lab coat and mask. and work in chemical hoods with a -- it's a sash that covers in front of my face. >> are all these procedures for quality control methods that you all utilize at fdle, are they used by other labs in terms of being accredited? >> yes. any lab with a quality assurance program in place is going to have very similar protocols as far as quality control. >> tell us if you could briefly

about proficiency testing in terms of testing yourself and also your lab to make sure that what you all are doing is working properly? >> a proficiency test is a test given to me by an outside company. it's mailed in and it's a set of samples that i have to work as if it were a regular case. and i perform that testing and send the results back to that company. and then they send a notice back saying, yes, you got the correct results or, no, you did not get the correct results. i'm required to take a proficiency test every six months. so i take one about may and about november of every year. i've done that every -- every year that i've been doing independent case work. since august of 2008. >> and is the lab -- the entire lab also subject to proficiency testing, the dna lab? or the lab but the dna the president of the lab also? >> yes. every crime analyst and even the forensic technologists have to go through some kind of proficiency test twice a year. >> let's briefly talk about the exhibits themselves that would

be tenured into your lab for analysis. in terms of making sure that you have the right exhibit in front of you when you're analyzing it, what kind of quality controls do you all have? is there some numbering system or some cataloging of the items when they come in? >> when an item is submitted for testing, we get items from outside agencies such as local law enforcement agencies in the central florida center. they submit the items to our evidence intake section. the evidence intake section makes sure that that item is in a sealed condition. and they issue it an exhibit number for the florida department of law enforcement exhibit number and put a barcode label and a case number on it. and then that item gets brought up to me once i'm assigned the case, and then i -- i also examine that item to make sure it's in a sealed condition. and we have that barcode label. the florida department law enforcement case number and exhibit number. >> do you also document when you

analyze something in terms of putting your initials or some kind of markings to be able to say, like, you will have to here in court and say, yeah, i know i examined this item? >> yes. i mark the package that i -- before i open the package, i mark that package with my initials, the florida department of law enforcement case number exhibit, and the date that i'm examining that item. then the actual item itself, unless there's a reason -- >> let's now move on to the dna testing you did in this specific case. i believe you used str dna testing. is that correct? >> yes. >> tell us wheealk about str dna testing what we mean by that or what you mean by that, i should say. >> str testing is called -- short tandem repeat testing. and it's -- i'm analyzing short segments on the dna molecule that are highly repetitive

segments. they don't actually code for any physical characteristic or any kind of molecule inside your body that's doing a job. they are just repetitive, noncoding regions of dna. and i can take advantage of that fact. the fact that those repetitive sequences vary from individual to individual. so i can use these short segments of dna to develop a profile for that individual. >> and if you could i'd like you to break down in terms of the str process, are there, i think, three or four steps that you have to go through in order to first determine whether you have enough dna to actually develop it? >> yes. the first step would obviously be analyzing the item of evidence for the possible bodily fluids, flood, semen, saliva as well as hair and skin cells. once i have that stain that i want to perform dna testing on i take a small portion of that stain or swab and put it in a tube and use heat and chemicals to perform what i call an extraction.

that breaks open the cells in that stain, exposes the dna molecule. and then hopefully i can isolate that molecule and wash away all of the debris and all of the other chemicals in that sample. the next step would be called quantify -- about how much dna was i able to recover from that stain. i use that information for the next step, which is amplification. i'm basically making xerox copies, almost, of the dna molecule. but only at these 13 or 15 different regions that i'm interested in testing to develop the dna profile. i make millions and millions of copies of the molecule at these specific regions so that i can analyze these regions. the last step is called electroforesis where i actually separate out the dna molecules that i was able to amplify by size. i get a data readout.

i interpret that and create the dna profile which is essentially a set of numbers. i can use those numbers for comparison. >> when you're going -- i'm sorry. you need a minute? when you're going through the extraction process, the stain, what you believe is a stain, might you be given the actual exhibit itself? like if i gave you this pen? or may they be a swab from this pen that you're first looking at? >> it varies. sometimes i get an actual item like a pen and say who was possibly handling this pen. and then i have to take a swab and swab that pen for any skin cells that might be left behind. sometimes i get a swab that was collected from an item. it was collected by the agency that submitted that. say, sanford police department or orlando police department. they swabbed the pen themselves, put that swab in a box and sent that box in to be tested. then i just have the swab to work with. i take a cutting of that swab with a scalpel, put that into

testing. >> in terms of that second step you talked about the quantitification. what's the minimum you need? >> there's really no minimum. that step tells me about how much dna i have in the sample. i use that information for the amplification step. the amplification step is like a recipe. if you have a recipe that calls for one cup of sugar, this recipe calls for one nanogram or 1.5 nanograms of dna. i'd like to have that 1.5 or 1 nanogram of dna in that tube in order for the reaction to work right in order for me to get a dna profile i can use for some kind of comparison. if i have less than that i'm going to go through with the rest of the steps to see. sometimes i can get less information than the full complete dna profile. it's still enough for me to make comparisons. there's plenty of times where i

don't have enough dna and i don't get any results or i get very little results. i still go through with the step. there really is no minimum. or i look and say i don't have enough dna there. i need to stop. i'm going to go through with it regardless of how much dna i have in that sample. >> educate us if you could >> if you take an index card and cut that index card up into a million pieces that would be about a nanogram, i believe. it's not a quantity that you can touch or feel. >> you mentioned also that in the process you're looking for markers. you mentioned the test you do is either going to give you 13 or 15 possible. is that >> do you always get 13 or 15?

>> no. like i said, sometimes based on the sample, the amount of dna i have or the condition of the dna, sometimes i get less than the full amount of locations that i'm testing. that would be called a partial dna profile. >> and if you get a partial dna profile, are you still in certain cases -- >> this is fascinating. this is the science talking quantify kags and molecules. bottom line this is a crime scene technician, analyst, expert, really. what we're waiting for, what we're going to hear questions specifically about trayvon martin's dna and blood. where that landed. also that of george zimmerman. is there any dna from trayvon martin on zimmerman's gun? quick break. most recommended by... my doctor. my gynecologist. my pharmacist. citracal. citracal. [ female announcer ] you trust your doctor. doctors trust citracal. just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked him up. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's. wiggle your toes.

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we'll take you back to sanford, florida, in just a moment. take a look at these pictures. i have to show you this. left hand of your screen, hundreds of thousands of people protesting against the democratically elected president of egypt, mohamed morsi. that is tahrir square. that was the heart and soul of the revolution some 2 1/2 years ago that ultimately ousted the then leader, hosni mubarak. on the right side of your screen, just a couple miles away, folks with quite a different perspective. these are pro-morsi demonstrators. according to a morsi spokesperson we've been in touch with here at cnn, there has been a coup in egypt. the fact is that the military, according to the spokesperson, has taken over. according to our senior correspondent ben wedeman there on the ground in cairo, was reporting on our air a little while ago that mohamed morsi is in the republican guard complex. we believe. what he's doing there, we don't know. according to witnesses the army has erected barbed wire barriers

around barracks where mohamed morsi is currently. we're awaiting a statement from the military. what will they say? what is the road map for egypt as we look ahead? we'll take you live to cairo here momentarily. in the meantime, back to sanford, florida. back to this crime scene technician talking specifically dna and blood at this crime scene from february of last year. here you go. >> it's somewhere in between. i can't include them in the mixture. i can't exclude them based on what i'm seeing. so i'm not able to make any kind of determination for that person to that mixture. >> sometimes when you examine an exhibit do you do a preliminary test to determine whether it's even blood? >> yes. >> tell us about that briefly, that testing, what that involves. >> depending on the case scenario, when i open an item and look at it, i could be looking for any of those bodily fluids that i discussed earlier. if i'm looking for blood and i

see a red round staining on the article of clothing or swab or whatever it is, i'll take a rubbing of that stain. try to rub off a little of that material on to a small piece of filter paper. and i apply a series of three chemicals. if i get a pink color change at the end of that series that would give me an indication that would be positive for the possible presence of blood. >> before we get into the heart of why you're here i want to talk briefly about the significance of your findings. assuming you get dna results, i want to talk briefly about the population matters. let me just ask you some questions regarding that if i could. when you examine the results, let's say you get an str testing with do you then determine the probability of a match in terms of what the probability you know it's it? tell us a little bit about that sfwl yes. when i have a match, when i have a single source profile or a mixture and someone matches that dna profile or they're included in that mixture, i need to put a relevance to that match. if i got a result at one location at one of the 13

locations that i test, and it matches an individual, what is the relevance of that one location matching an individual? there could be, you know, maybe three other people, four other people in this room that match that location. so i need to put a statistical relevance to that match. so when i have 13 locations, i perform what's called a random match probability. when i have any amount of locations that i get, i perform a random match probability. and it's the possibility that you would pull a random person off the street and test their sample, and that they would match that unknown dna profile that i got. whether it's at one location, two locations, or all 13 or 15 locations. >> and is there a data base that you have as a baseline in order to compare it to determine in terms of the percentage of the population, or how likely is that to occur? >> yes. the different results that i could get at these locations, they aren't evenly distributed in the population. some results are more common

than others. so i use population data bases that were put together for the purpose of estimating about how rare or frequent these different as a results are in certain ethnic groups. >> and are you familiar with the data base that you all use? >> yes. >> and has that been accepted in the scientific community of being reliable -- do you use the pop stats, i believe, for fbi or what do you use? >> i used two different data bases in the course of working this case. for years we used the fbi's population database. that's generally used within the scientific community. i did test a couple samples later on in this case where we had switched to a different database. we call that the butler database because it was created by a dr. john butler. that's the one we currently use on our casework. >> has that been accepted in the scientific community as being reliable? >> yes. >> okay. and do you use the product rule in some way, too, in factors

that all in? >> yes. >> tell us briefly about the product rule. >> the product rule, it's a simple statistical concept that says if you have a frequency for one event and a frequency for another independent event, and you want to see what's the frequency that both these events could occur at the same time, you can multiply the frequencies together. so, for example, if you have a coin and you flip that coin you have a 50% chance of heads, 50% chance of tails. well, if you want to see what's the probability that i'm going to have two coins and i'm going to flip both and they'll both land on heads, you would multiply that 50% for one coin, 50% for the second coin, and you would get 25% that they would both land on heads. this applies to the random match probability, the statistics i use. because these 13 or 15 locations that i test are all inherited infeint i independently. once i determine the frequency that you would find the results at one of these locations in the

population, i can then multiply it with the other 12 or the other 14 locations using this product rule to get a frequency that you would find that entire dna profile. >> in terms of some of the results that you're going to talk to this jury about, why are some of the results in terms of the pop -- the numbers more than a actual population of the earth. which i believe is now 6.5 or maybe 7 billion. why is it higher? >> i think it's almost 7 billion now, the population of the earth. it really doesn't have anything to do with the population of the earth. it's more about the frequency at which i see these results. it's similar to if you think about it, sometimes you see it posted somewhere that the frequency -- or the probability of winning the lottery is one in a million. well, that doesn't have to do -- that has nothing to do with how many people play the lottery or how many people live in the area. it just has to do with what is the probability that i'm going to match all six or seven of these numbers and get them all right. >> quick break. back to sanford, florida, after this.

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i'm wolf blitzer in washington. we're following huge breaking news out of cairo. we expect momentarily the opposition leadership in egypt, the opposition to the egyptian president mohammed morsi to be making a statement. what's being described as a road map to new elections in egypt. it looks like the egyptian military has dramatically stepped in. mohamed morsi, unclear where he is, what his status is right now. he is the democratically elected president of egypt. but clearly the egyptian military and millions of egyptians, they have an other idea for morsi right now. we're continuing to follow what's happening on the streets of cairo, the pro and anti morsi demonstrations that seem to be escalating right now. we're going to get that statement from the opposition leader, mohammed el baradei. he's been intimately involved in working the egyptian opposition. we expect him to be making a

statement soon. we'll have live coverage of that. standby. in the meantime, let's go back to brooke. she's following the zimmerman trial. >> we'll watch for that. wolf blitzer, thank you so much for the update on what's happening right now in egypt. i want to take you back now to this george zimmerman trial under way in sanford, florida. once again you see him on the stand. this is is a crime lab analyst talking science and dna. >> the outer package has our fdle barcode label. my initials. the date i opened the package, the internal packages with the swabs also have my initials and the date. >> what is that, sir? >> this would be buckle bucol s taken from inside the mouth of george zimmerman.

>> if i could show that to the jury, your honor. all this terms of writing on here in terms of your initials would be on here right here. right? where would your initials be on here? >> right here. >> okay. that would be true of all of the exhibits, in other words, you could verify you actually did analysis on this? >> yes. >> it would have your fdle number and i think you said the yellow quick card or whatever you call this label is also fdle. >> yes. the yellow barcode label is also from fdle. >> now, those i think you referred to as standards, correct, known standard from george zimmerman and also from treyen martin. is that correct? >> yes. those were known standards that were used for comparison to all the unknown samples in the case. >> okay. you do the process. you go through the extraction.

do you then prepare -- for the record, i'm going to show you state's exhibit 206. previously been shown to counsel. no objection. may i approach the witness, your honor? let me actually show you the actual exhibit so you have it there. but -- and i want you to talk about this and explain -- i believe there's 13 markers on this one. let me show you state's exhibit 206. thank you, your honor. tell us just when you talk about all these markers, let's go -- you don't have your -- i need mr. guy's assistance. may i approach the witness

again, your honor? i'm going to give you this fancy pen, i guess, or whatever you call it. i think the button's right -- you see it? okay. let's talk about you got three columns here. and let's -- actually, i think i can do it here in the red, too. you do green. i'll do red. let's talk about this description right here. what are all these? i know they're referred to as loci. what does this mean right here? >> these -- this column right here is the -- they are the names of the 13 locations that i tested for these samples. they're loci is like a fancy scientific way of saying location. so i test 13 loci. loci would be plural. location.ld be one single these are their names. they basically represent where these locations are located on the dna molecule. >> who came up with d 3 s 135 a. who came wup that fancy name for

that? >> i have no idea. they're basically representing where, on what chromosome this would be on. chromosome 3, chromosome 8, about where on the dna molecule that they are located. these locations that i test. >> all right. tell me the significance of this one right here. that i'm circling. >> the amelojenin location is in addition to the 13 location. it's a sex determining location. it gives me an indication of whether or not that individual has two x chromosomes, which would make them a female, or an x and a y chromosome, which would make them a male. >> okay. if you could move to that middle column. that's titled jr-20. jr is the number i'm assuming that was designated by fdle or by the submitting agency? >> yes. that's the exhibit number. exhibit jr-2. that was from sanford police department. >> okay. under that column right there, you have it appears on each one of the -- on each column two numbers. tell me the significance of

that, if you could. >> these numbers here, this -- if you read down, this is the dna profile for george zimmerman. these numbers represent different size fragments of dna that are found at that location. so that's my result at that location. these numbers are called aliels. each person, like i said, inherits half of their dna from their mother and half of their dna from their father. that's why each of these 13 locations you see two numbers. one came from each parent. there are times where you inherit the same -- same size dna at the one location. which is why there'll be two numbers that are the same. >> okay. now, move on to the last column. i believe that's trayvon martin's. me-3 means from the medical examiner's office. is that correct?

>> normally when an exhibit comes from the medical examiner's office, it has an m.e. as the abbreviation. but it could be called anything. really it's just a letter number designation that's unique to that sample in this case. >> and in terms of you have the same on mr. martin in terms of you have two numbers, obviously one from his father, one from his mother. is that correct? >> yes. >> okay. >> let's open the microphones here. let me introduce you to tonya smith, criminal defense attorney. mike brooks worked in law enforcement for years and years. law enforcement analyst for hln. let's just break away. because for a minute, this is just getting a little wonky, if i may. looking at all the loci versus the locus versus the numbers versus the assignment from this guy's particular crime lab. bottom line is for me, we're going through so carefully because dna matters and it could prove key here. right? >> that's absolutely right. you know, we live in the era of csi. jurors expect to hear from the state whether or not there's any

dna evidence. if there isn't, why there isn't. in addition to that they also want to know what efforts were undertaken to get the dna. if it was done appropriately. and that there was no tampering done in the process. >> how thorough the investigation was. >> absolutely. >> one of the main things that he did, he examined the swabbings that were taken for any touch dna on the gun of george zimmerman. was there any dna there deposited by trayvon martin. he also examined the scrapings under the fingernail and the clothing that both men had on that evening. so we'll see what the results are to see if trayvon martin was a contributor to anything that maybe george zimmerman had on and vice versa. >> two great points. things were watching for. certainly the jurors are as well. quick break. we'll take you back to the trial in just a second. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief.

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the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move. all right. let's take you back to this trial here. looks like these two lawyers are looking over some evidence here before the state prepsents this to this crime lab analyst

sitting here in the hot seat. let's go back. let me go to -- while they're sort of mulling over this and looking through some of the papers, darren cavanoki in los angeles, who is an attorney, you're watching all this with me here today. are the jurors falling asleep? are they taking notes? are they fascinated, sitting on the edge of their seats with all this science do you think? >> i think it's like, oh, this is terrible. here's what's terrible about it. this may be important scientific material. yes, we're in a csi era where jurors expect to get some science. but we're reaching the climactic finish of this case. we heard this morning that the prosecution is intending to rest soon. and why it is that they selected this time to bring in this boring stuff to lull these jurors to sleep when you want them at the edge of their seats,

if this was a boxing match, i'd begin to suspect that somebody has taken a dive. if i were a conspiracy theorist. >> i hear you. tanya miller making a really valid point that they have to go through the science, as wonky and nuance as it may be and perhaps a little over the heads of some of the jurors. it's important to establish. this is important. this guy knows his stuff because he may, as we're waiting to see, be able to come out and say yes or no, trayvon martin's, you know, dna was found on the gun. and that could be important. >> absolutely. look, i think anyone who has had significant experience trying these kinds of cases know that there are parts that are always boring. a trial is not some excitement filled event where they're on the edge of their seats at all times. this is important evidence. this jury is probably on the edge of their seat wanting to know what the scientific evidence says about this event. >> let's watch. >> about using obviously state's exhibit 203, i want to talk

about the four swabs that were taken from the defendant's gun. the first one i want to talk about is the swab taken from the pistol grip. if you could, using that part of state's exhibit 203, tell us the significance of your findings there. and just describe each part that is shown up there. hopefully the jurors can all see that. it's got an fdle number, right, exhibit number? then you've got a description of what it is. swab 21-a from pistol grip. is that correct? >> we. this is basically a summary of the testing i did, the results of that testing and the statistical analysis. over here, this is the number that it got -- this exhibit got assigned when it came into the fdle laboratory. i usually refer to them as the agency's, the sanford police department's number, which is over here. which would be -- it was dms-21.

since there were four swabs in the box they got labeled a, b, c, d. swab "a" here was from the grip of the gun. and i did the chemical test for the possible presence of blood on the swab which gave me a positive result. so that's this column here. whether or not i did that chemical test. the next column is whether or not that sample gave me an indication of a mixture of multiple people or if it was a single source. so this one here, yes, meaning i got a mixture of dna from the testing of that sample. i was able to resolve this mixture out. i was able to pick out or determine the major dna profile in that mixture. and that's right here for the major. i got a complete dna profile which matched george zimmerman. and then the statistic here would be the random match probability. the probability that you would pick a random person off the

street and that they would also -- that they would match that major dna profile. so just to read that, the probability would be 1 in 11 quadrillion caucasians. 1 in 1.5 quintillion african-americans. going back to the mixture, also for the minor which would be the lesser contributor or contributors, i was not able -- not determined means i was not able to determine a profile for that minor or minor contributors. and the comparison of my other standard, which would be from trayvon martin to that mixture, i determined that trayvon martin was excluded as being a possible contributor to that mixture. >> so as to this part of the exhibit 203, the swab or the dna that you developed from the pistol grip of the defendant's gun, it was positive for blood, correct? >> yes.

>> and then there was a mixture. the major was matched the defendant, george zimmerman? >> yes. >> and you were able to exclude trayvon martin as having dna on the pistol grip. is that correct? >> yes. trayvon martin was excluded as being a possible contributor to this mixture on the grip. >> i want to move next to the second part of the swab from the pistol trigger this time, on the previous exhibit that you examined, did you again perform or try to do the same testing, or tell us what that significance of that fdle exhibit 3 was, sir? >> the 21-b was a swab collected from the trigger of the pistol. i did not perform the chemical test for blood on that exhibit. the swab itself didn't give me an indication that blood might be present. >> okay. so this crime lab analyst is walking through these multiple swabs that he took on george zimmerman's gun to see whose dna was where.

so far the headline that i'm hearing is the fact that it was george zimmerman's dna, specifically on the grip of the gun, but not that of trayvon martin. quick break. we'll take you back to this after this break.

aisi'm wolf blitzer in washington. want to update you on what's going on in egypt right now. we're about to get a major statement from opposition leaders. three opposition leaders have now been authorized to deliver a statement on egyptian television. mohammed el baradei will be making a statement along with a leader of the muslim university as well as a christian leader. the three of them authorized by the military to be outlining what is described as a road map, a road map in a post-morsi era leading to new elections and a

new regime, presumably in egypt. we're standing by for that statement. we don't know the whereabouts of the egyptian president mohamed morsi right now. apparently he's holed up in some sort of building near one of the egyptian palaces. clearly the egyptian military is taking steps to move forward to deal with these two enormous demonstrations on the streets of cairo right now, pro and anti morsi. this is a very, very intense moment in egypt's history. we'll have extensive coverage of what's going on because the stakes clearly are enormous. once again, the former head of the international atomic energy agency dr. mohamed al baradei will be making a statement. in the meantime back to brooke. more coverage of the zimmerman trial. >> wolf blitzer, thank you so much. we'll take you back to egypt momentarily. first this trial, the state again saying this morning it will rest. a huge afternoon for the prosecution. once again quickly bringing mike brooks in before we get back. this, again, is the crime lab

analyst. he's just run through four different parts of the gun, george zimmerman's gun which he swabbed. what was the conclusion? >> they were swabbed by an examiner, sent to his lab. three for the gun. one on the pistol grip, one trigger, one slide. then the holster. the pistol grip there was just touch dna, just from george zimmerman. could not find anything from trayvon martin. the slide no dna. they could not include or exclude. and the trigger really was kind of basically inconclusive. the holster negative for any kind of blood for either one of them. we didn't hear what the exact dna was. if i recall correctly there was no dna from trayvon martin. >> mike brooks, thank you. let's listen back in. >> even though you don't have a swab, how do you remove, if there is any dna, from this? what do you do? >> i take a swab and i swab the pointy end to try to obtain

anything that is on that pointy end that came from under the fingernai fingernails. >> and let's, if we could, talk about your findings as to that specific exhibit, sir. i gather there's a right hand and a left hand. is that correct? >> yes. there were two envelopes. inside the main envelope. one contained the right hand, which i labeled "a." the left hand was labeled "b." >> and if i could, i've put it up on the screen here. tell us what your findings regarding your dna analysis of the right hand fingernail scrapings of mr. martin? >> the right hand, the stick from the right hand had some red brown staining on it. so i performed the chemical test for the possible presence of blood and it tested positive. the dna profile i obtained was a single source profile. and it was -- it matched the dna

profile from trayvon martin. in a sample like this, i call this an intimate sample. because it's collected directly from an individual's body. when you collect a sample from an individual's body, their dna profile is expected to be seen on that swab or on that sample. so what i'm looking for on an intimate sample is anything foreign to that person. and in this case, because the dna profile matched trayvon martin, that means there were no dna foreign to him on that sample. >> in other words, from the right fingernail scrapings of trayvon martin, you did not find any of george zimmerman's dna there. is that correct? >> no, there was nothing foreign to trayvon martin. >> if we could move to the second part, which i believe would be the fingernail scrapings from the left hand. if you could, tell us your findings as to that, sir. >> yes. the left hand stick was not tested for the possible presence of blood. it did not have any staining on it whatsoever. i swabbed that, performed the testing, and i did not get any

dna results from that swab. >> i believe you also examined some swabs, possible dna swabs from a skittles bag and also a flashlight. is that correct? >> yes. >> may i approach the witness again, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> sir, i'm showing you state's exhibit 169. i ask you if you recognize state exhibit 169, sir. >> all right. so quickly they were talking specifically about the scrapings that were found underneath trayvon martin's fingernails and the fact was no foreign dna was found. translation, no george zimmerman dna was found. which is not consistent with what george zimmerman was saying earlier in the trial that we

heard. not in the trial. what we heard in the video where apparently he was saying trayvon martin's hands were covering his mouth and his nose. we'll look for the defense to counter that somehow. quick break. is that we get to create our future. you get to take ownership of the choices you make. the person you become. i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not sitting by as their life unfolds. and they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives.

i'm wolf blitzer in washington. we're following the breaking news out of egypt right now. just within the past few moments, a very dramatic

development. the state run newspaper, the major newspaper in egypt, has report ed that the egyptian president mohamed morsi as of 7:00 p.m. local time is no longer the president of egypt. this was told to morsi by the egyptian military. that he is no longer the president of egypt. mohamed morsi a year ago was democratically elected. it was a close election. 52% for morsi. 48% for the opposition. he was democratically elected. but there are enormous demonstrations, anti-morsi demonstrations on the street of o egypt -- streets of egypt right now. in cairo, zan dree alexandria a elsewhere. the major paper of egypt,

apparently under the influence of the egyptian military right now, saying morsi is no longer president. they've also announced very soon we will be getting a statement from opposition leaders. including the former head of the international atomic energy agency. a fierce opponent of morsi. they'll be issuing what is being described as a roadmap in the post-morsi era. let's bring in ben wedeman right now. he's covering this story. he knows egypt very, very well. he's on the streets over there. he's over -- he's right near a pro-morsi demonstration. ben, if this report is accurate, that the egyptian military says morsi is no longer the president of egypt, there will be fierce anger from those people right near you. >> we, i'm afraid there will be, wolf. i spoke with one senior member of the muslim brotherhood here. i asked him for his reaction to the news or to the -- at that

point it was just the belief that mohamed morsi would be deposed. of course, now he is. and he pointed to the crowds behind me, and he said, they will die to stop what is happening. and what we've heard people in the crowd chanting behind me is that it's either victory or martyrdom. the worry is that once this becomes officially announced, once this army statement is made, that people will start to leave this area and take out their anger. where, how, we don't know. now, we do know that in some of the roads leading to here, there are military vehicles. but obviously the reaction here will be very angry. wolf? >> it will be angry, and we'll see what happens. we only can hope there won't be a lot of violence, although i suspect there probably will be. we'll see what the egyptian military does at the same time. ben, standby. we have other reporters watching what's going on. we're awaiting the statement of

the opposition leader. we'll see if morsi is allowed to say anything. what happens to him. much more coverage obviously of this historic development coming up. in the meantime, back to brooke. >> wolf, thank you. as we await that statement there in egypt, i want to take you back to this trial in which we're still hearing from this crime lab analyst specifically talking now about blood found on trayvon martin's sweatshirt, that hoodie. let's go back. >> mr. gorgone, let's talk about the findings regarding the hooded jacket recovered from -- or that mr. trayvon martin was wearing. i'm showing you state's exhibit 119. does that -- can you show us where there's a stain there or appears to be a stain there? >> that would be stain "c" which was on the back of the sweatshirt. >> am i circling it right here? >> yes. >> okay. so in addition to actually making your cuttings, you're photographing what you do so that if you had to come and explain it to somebody or testify about it, you would be able to say this is exactly

where i got this cutting and this is where i got this result? >> correct. this is a photograph of before i did any testing. obviously there's no cutting taken there yet. but in my notes i describe chemical tests for blood, the result, cutting taken, cutting not taken, and so on. >> state's exhibit -- i'm going back to 203, i believe it is. i want to ask you about the results. let's talk about stain "a" that we've shown the jury already. tell us what your findings were regarding that, sir. >> stain "a" gave me a positive result for blood. for the possible presence of blood. i obtained a single source profile. so no mixture. it was a partial dna profile at less than the 13 locations that i test. and it matched the dna profile from trayvon martin. >> and i believe you stated state's exhibit -- i'm sorry. stain "a" from the hooded jacket from trayvon martin was in the front. is that correct? >> it was in the front lower part of the jacket. >> okay.

let's talk about the stain "b" which i believe you stated was one of the sleeves, is that correct? >> yes. stain "b" was on the sleeve, the left sleeve. >> and if you could tell us what your findings were regarding that, sir. >> stain "b" tested negative for the possible presence of blood. and i performed no further testing on that stain. >> and the stain "c" which i believe was in the back of that hooded jacket, what were you findings regarding that, sir? >> stain "c" gave me a positive result for the possible presence of blood. however, i was not able to obtain any dna results from my testing. >> i believe we have one more. tell us if you can what your findings were regarding that specific exhibit. >> in addition to the three stains that i tested, i was also asked to swab to see if there was any foreign dna on the cuffs or the lower part of the sleeves of the sweatshirt.

so i collected -- well, first i did the test for blood on a rubbing from the entire cuff and lower part of the sleeve. i considered the lower sleeve from about the elbow down to the cuff. so i tested that whole area for the possible presence of blood, which tested negative for the right cuff and sleeve. i swabbed that area to see if there was any dna foreign to trayvon martin since it was his sweatshirt. so i can expect to potentially see his dna profile there. and it was not -- there was no dna foreign to trayvon martin on that right sleeve. >> did you also do that to the left cuff or lower sleeve? >> correct. there was about the same results. it was negative for the possible presence of blood and i was not able to obtain any dna foreign to trayvon martin from the left sleeve cuff swab that i collected. >> i want to make sure the jury understand that. are you saying that as to the hooded jacket from mr. martin,

the right cuff and left cuff -- let me just -- mr. gorgone, i want to make sure we're talking the same thing. make sure the jury understands. may i approach the witness, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> for the record, i'm showing you state's exhibit 155. mr. gorgone, when you're talking about the sleeve, how much of the sleeve are you rubbing? if you could just -- tell us how much of the sleeve you're actually trying to get dna from? >> i swabbed the cuff and lower sleeve area. and i can considered that from the elbow or mid-point of the sleeve forward. so i did the chemical test for blood from about here forward and the cuff. which tested negative.

and i was not able to obtain any foreign dna. >> did you do that also from his left sleeve? >> yes. >> okay. and when you're doing that, are you doing both sides or one side or what part of the sleeve are you doing? >> all the way around. so the front and back of the outside surface. >> and then you said here also that -- tell us about this, what you're doing here, the cuffs. >> the same thing. it was all collected with one swab. the cuff area to here. >> okay. and there was nothing foreign to trayvon martin? in other words, you didn't find any person's dna on those -- either one of those? >> correct. >> thank you. may i -- may i take it back? >> yes.

president mohamed morsi -- you know what? let's listen in to hear what they're saying. these are opposition leaders authorized by the egyptian military to make this statement. >> translator: and it will continue to be a way from the political actions and political involvement that armed forces has felt based on its own vision that the egyptian people is calling on it to support it and calling on it to be involved in power, to hold on power, and this will continue to be its duty to protect and safeguard the people and to achieve the demands of the revolution. and this was its mission. the mission that the armed forces has gotten from all the

egyptian people. from all cities and villages. and the armed forces has also understood this call and understood its meaning and aprea appreciated its own role. and came closer to the political scene hoping and wanting and adhering to the framework with its duties and responsibilities. the armed forces has spent efforts throughout the last few months, many efforts directly and indirectly, to contain the situation, the internal situation today and achieve a national reconciliation between all the political forces including the presidency. since last november 2012, the armed forces started calling on

the national reconciliation effort. all the patriotic movements agreed to it, including the presidency in the last minutes. the events and the cause repeatedly continued on, including the initiatives since then until today. the armed forces also has presented repeatedly with offers to estimate the strategic situation internally and abroad that included the most important challenges and dangers that is facing the country from the perspective of security and economically and politically. the armed forces has -- its vision as a -- constitution, its role is to contain specific problems and face the challenges and the dangers to exit the

current crisis. within the framework of following up on this crisis today, the armed forces has met with the president of the republic in the palace. june 22nd, 2013. which offered him the opinion of the general command and told him -- and to prevent the insult of the state institutions and reiterated its mission and to -- the insults against the egyptian people. there was a hope that reconciliation will continue on in forming a roadma provide sta the people. which will achieve its goals and its hopes. however, the speech of the

president last night and before the 48 hours deadline did not achieve the goals of the people, which resulted that the armed forces, based on its own national and patriotic duty, to consult with several leaders, civic and religious and youth, without excluding anyone. the people who were in meeting agreed on the following steps. they will build an egyptian society, strong and stable, that will not exclude any one of its sons. including its old political currents. and end the conflict and the roadmap will follow -- as follow. suspend the constitution on a

tentative -- the chief of the constitutional court will swear before the court hold an elections, presidential election, while the constitutional court will assume the presidency. the chief of the constitutional court has the right to declare constitutional declarations throughout the transitional period. establish a government that is a strong and diverse, has all the powers to manage the transition period. four, a committee that includes all the people to revise all the constitutional amendments that will be -- that were suspended temporarily.

call on the supreme constitutional court to establish an elections law for the parliament and to start to continue for the parliamentary elections. establish a code of ethics for the media that will prevent all other transgressions against the media and will establish values and ethics for the media to follow. establish methods to empower the youth to be participants in the decisions within all the framework of the executive power. establish a higher committee for the reconciliation committee from leaders who are credible and has the ability to raise the national forces. the armed forces call on the egyptian people, the great egyptian people, with all its diverse groups, to continue to

have peaceful protests. and end the crisis. and shed the blood. and warns that it will respond with cooperation of the interior ministry with a strong and determination against anyone who deviates from peaceful protest in accordance with the law. this is based on its own responsibility, historic responsibility. the armed forces salute the men of the armed forces, the police force, and the judiciary, the honorable ones, for their own patriot patriotic duty and their sacrifices to safeguard and the safety and the security of its great egyptian people. may god preserve egypt and its people.

>> all right. so there you have it. you see the excitement in tahrir square. thedemonstrators, they are thrilled. you heard the leader of the egyptian military, abdell f fattah. morsi is out. he is no longer the president of

egypt. he has been removed. new steps were announced by the general going forward with what he called a roadmap to democracy. the antemi-morsi elements there you see them, fireworks going off. they are tlhrilled right now, very happy morsi is gone. this is clearly a very tenuous moment right now. you see some of the pro-morsi elements. obviously they are furious about what just was announced. morsi is gone. we don't know his whereabouts. we don't know where he is. but the egyptian military has made it clear he is gone. call it a coup or call it whatever you want. but morsi, elected one year ago as president of egypt, he is no longer the president right now according to the egyptian military. cnn's ivan watson is watching what's going on. ivan, i take it you're not far away from the -- the anti-morsi demonstrators, that is right? >> reporter: that's right. tahrir square is behind me. and the moment that the

announcement was made that the constitution be suspended, a huge cheer erupted behind me. and now the fireworks are not only going off here in tahrir square, but i can see from my view, my vantage point here, fireworks in different neighborhoods across central cairo as some egyptians are applauding and celebrating this move by the defense ministry announcing the suspension of the constitution and declaring what they're describing as a roadmap forward for future presidential elections. the people here are celebrating. we can be guaranteed that the supporters of mohamed morsi, who predominantly come from the muslim brotherhood, are probably very angry right now. they have been warning about what they are describing as a milita military coup? wolf? >> stand by for a moment, ivan watson. i want to get immediate u.s.

reaction. dan loet ythian is over at the e house. any official statement by the obama administration to the dramatic announcement we just heard, that mohamed morsi is no longer the president of egypt? >> reporter: this is certainly a dramatic turn. especially this administration had been pushing for the democratic reforms in egypt. now this. no official reaction from the white house. at the state department earlier today the spokesperson there saying that the administration had very deep concerns about what was going on on the ground in egypt. as you know, wolf, officials -- u.s. officials had been essentially cautioning the military there in egypt against a military coup saying that the $1.5 billion in aid, annual aid, that the u.s. provides to egypt each year could be in jeopardy. interesting to see whether or not the u.s. will use the $1.5 billion in aid as any kind of card in the future transition there in egypt.

unclear whether president obama has spoken to president morsi today. we do know that the president did phone him on monday where the president expressed concerns of what was going on in egypt. the president also saying that the u.s. continues to be committed to the democratic process in egypt. but not committed to any one individual or any one party. wolf? >> clear joy by the anti-morsi forces. the elements in cairo. you see them celebrating that morsi no longer the president of egypt. removed by the egyptian military. but there's deep, deep anger by morsi's supporters, most of whom from the muslim brotherhood. elsewhere in egypt as well. this is a moment in egypt's history a lot of us did not necessarily anticipate. it clearly is a fast moving situation right now. we're watching what's going on, and i must say it's taken a lot of people by surprise how quickly all of this unfolded. dan -- i know you're getting --

dan lothian is getting more reaction from the obama administration. ivan watson is still watching what's going on. ivan, this looks like new year's eve in cairo. >> reporter: it does. i mean, and it's not just here. i was traveling throughout central cairo just about a half an hour ago and i saw these pockets of egyptians celebrating what many of them felt was the imminent overthrow, you could call it, of egypt's first ever democratically elected president, mohamed morsi who was elected just a year ago. i'm frankly quite stunned at how much ill will he had generated amongst so many egyptians that they just felt it was time now to throw away the electoral process and simply start fresh. it poses a lot of big challenges here. it was also remarkable to see the soldiers, the troops, the police, the special forces

deploying on bridges, on major roads, blocking traffic, especially around areas where the morsi supporters had set up protest camps. one in particular that we visited in front of the university of cairo. i've met some of the young men who are walking through there who have not military. and one of them said to me, wolf, of course this is a military coup. but i want this. i want to protect the people from the muslim brotherhood who are out for blood. that's what one supporter of this move by the military said to me. and then, of course, i walked across the 200 meters, the 200 yards from the phalanxes of special forces and police and armored personnel carriers to the encampment of muslim brotherhood supporters who were also firing off fireworks about an hour ago. and they said this is a military coup. we're not going anywhere. we are not vnviolent. we're going to stay here and defend our man, morsi, even if

it takes us dying, to the last drop of blood. you have incredible polarization right now, wolf, between the people here who are celebrating the suspension of the egyptian constitution and those who voted for mohamed morsi. some of whom who are saying, at least, that they're willing to die for him to stay in office. wolf? >> you just heard the announcement from the top military leader in egypt, general abdell fattah. he made it official, morsi, mohamed morsi, the democratically elected president of egypt, no longer the president of egypt right now. we do not know his whereabouts. we do not know his condition. we do not know if he's under house arrest or anything along those lines. the only thing we know is what the general told us, general asisi making it clear that there is now a new roadmap. there will be new elections. and this process will go forward. in the meantime, the constitution of egypt has been suspended.

fareed zakaria is joining us. he's been a student of egypt for a long time. fareed, i was saying, i was there in january. and i interviewed president morsi. he gave me a lot of quality time over at the presidential palace in cairo. i must say, even as someone who has studied egypt myself for a long time, how quickly he was removed is almost breathtaking f. >> it's absolutely breathtaking. and it's quite -- it's unusual that the military would choose to put themselves back in this position. because remember the military has remained very powerful throughout this process. they've retained all their economic power and privileges. they still run vast swaths of the country. they still have a budget that is a black box. no one is allowed, not the president, not parliament to scrutinize the military budget. but they got involved, i think, because they saw the level of polarization in the country and the level of opposition to the muslim brotherhood rising and decided that they could rise

this wave. it's a fairly dangerous move, wolf. because what we are now witnessing this process of this soft coup, what the next step is surely going to be, the muslim brotherhood will react to it. remember, they were able to survive and flourish through five or six decades of complete persecution and outright ban on their activities. so they're not going to go anywhere. they're going to come out. and they will be -- they will be outf out for blood. i don't mean that literally. i mean in the sense they will be very passionate about trying to push back on this. that suggests that the tensions in egypt are likely to get a lot worse before they fwget better. >> fareed, hold on for a moment. reza sayah is watching what's going on. he's right there on the scene for us. reza, the word "coup" is critical right now because the anti-morsi elements, they insist this is not a military coup. this is democracy in action.

this is a revolution. the pro-morsi forces say this is a military coup. i must say there's either a u.s. loss as far as u.s. aid is concerned, if this is a military coup, that could put some of the 1$1.3 billion or $1.5 billion i u.s. military aid into some sort of jeopardy. another $250 million in non-u.s. military aid if, in fact, the u.s. government describes this as a coup. there are legal ramifications. so give us the sense, what are you seeing right now, reza? is this a coup or is this not a coup? >> reporter: wolf, all of what you said is correct. however, rest assure that the armed forces is going to make every effort to reject any kind of claim, any kind of accusation that this is a coup. and you saw it with the announcement. they said it's not us who's going to be taking over. it's going to be the head of the

constitutional court. and a council is going to be established to put forth this transition to this roadmap. currently there's all sorts of indications where you could argue this was a coup, that it was the armed forces who stepped in and led to this tipping point and the ouster of president morsi. but they're making all sorts of efforts to say this wasn't us, this was the people, this is what the people wanted. and it's the head of the constitutional court that's going to take control. they have a council. we're going to have new parliamentary elections very soon. as you can see behind me, the euphoria, celebration, an explosion of joy right after the announcement was made. you can take a look at the fireworks going on behind us. this is a campaign that started months ago with a petition drive. an effective campaign that built a ground swell of support for the campaign and a ground swell of -- for president morsi. it worked. mission accomplished.

january 25th, 2011, will go down in history as the egyptian revolution part one. mark your calendars down for july 3rd, 2013. egypt's revolution part two, wolf. >> part two, indeed. that celebration presumably only just beginning. but across town not very far away there are thousands and thousands of pro-morsi forces. people who are demonstrating. they are deeply angry right now. we can only imagine, i fear for the worst. let's hope there is a sense of calm and that people calm down. but you take a look at the two pictures. on the left part of the screen the anti-morsi demonstrators at tahrir square. the right part you see people just standing. i'm sure many of them in shock at how quickly the military moved to get rid of mohamed morsi. fareed zakaria, let me just quickly fwet yo lly get your th. the obama administration has to make a major decision right now. we know that there were

extensive discussions. the president, president obama, on monday spoke with president morsi. we know chuck hagel, the defense secretary, spoke with general asisi, head of the egyptian military over the past 24 hours. how the u.s. reacts to what has just been announced in cairo is going to be very significant. what do you anticipate? >> you put it exactly right, wolf. the crucial question is, is this described as a coup or not? you notice that the military is trying very hard to make the case that this is not a coup and that, therefore, those triggers that you talked about, the cutoff of u.s. aid and such, do not apply. just looking at it plainly, wolf, it's very difficult to see how the removal of a democratically elected government by the military would not be described as some kind of a coup. whatever follows. so the question is if they can come up with a way to convince both the united states and the world and the egyptian people that there is a very quick path

back, then perhaps there's a way to square the circle. because you can have a two-month suspension or a -- some you don't even have to have that. but i think it all depends on getting back on track democratically and fast. >> because you remember, fareed, when there was a military coup in pakistan. the u.s. immediately suspended delivery of all fighter aircraft and other military hardware to pakistan and poisoned that relationship as you well remember, fareed, for a long time. how the u.s., how the obama administration now reacts to what is happening in cairo on the streets of cairo will be significant. and i suspect the president, even though we're not seeing him now, we'll be hearing from him and his top advisers fairly soon. you want to just add one thought, fareed, before i move on? >> i think the crucial question right now is whether the muslim brotherhood decides it's going to fight this it shall -- resis

military in some kind of sure force. because if that happens the military will have to decide whether they're going to clear the streets of cairo using force. and that's not going to be pretty. the brotherhood, i know somebody who belongs to the brotherhood who said to me, we are going out there with our shrouds. in other words, we are ready for death. >> and if that happens, this situation, we have tens if not hundreds of thousands of people on one side versus hundreds of thousands on another side not very far from each other in a major metropolitan area, namely cairo, a huge city. who knows what's going on. i see the egyptian military, though, is moving. they're taking steps right now. fareed, hold on. sfa stand by for a moment. jill dougherty is our statement department correspondent. jill, what are they saying over there? >> wolf, they're not saying anything specifically. this has been moving very, very quickly. but i think it's very important to point out that before this happened, the state department on that issue of aid and whether

it would have to be pulled if they were a coup, they actually explained that according to the law there is some wiggle room. that if you do have a coup or a decision in which there's a decree in which the military plays a decisive role, they have to restrict it. however, it depends on a thorough analysis of the particular set of facts that may arise. so they are not necessarily saying that it automatically happens that they have to cut aid. >> pardon, jill, hold on. hold on, jill, for a moment. i'm going to get back to that thought. dr. mohammed elbaradai, former head of the atomic energy agency, is speaking. >>. >> translator: all of us build it together. agree on democratic constitution to guarantee our freedoms. this plan will have national reconciliation effort so all of

us come back again as reconciled people together. i hope that this happen, this roadmap, this plan, is a beginning for a new beginning to continue with the may 25th revolution through which the egyptian people had to spend dearly to achieve what all of us want, social justice for every egyptian, man and woman. >> all right. so there you have dr. mohamed elbaradei, one of the opposition lead leaders. he has been outspoken in the fierce criticism of the now former egyptian president, mohamed morsi, making his statement there is now this roadmap. you heard the egyptian military

announce it just a little while ago. a roadmap towards new and early elections. they've suspend wbd thoued, tho egyptian constitution for the time being. a retired u.s. diplomat spent an enormous amount of time in the middle east. he knows egypt well. ambassador, i assume you're as stunned as i am at how quickly the egyptian military forced morsi's removal? >> yes, wolf. this has been a very rapid scenario. again, as the chief of staff asisi stated, the military has been in very intense discussions with morsi. and they tried to get him to do certain things which he did not do. and i think what the military has decided, wolf, is that morsi was recalcitrant. that the muslim brotherhood was spending its time consolidating its power and not demonstrating the pluralism that's necessary to govern egyptian society,

which you know is so diverse and multiethnic and concessional. what is remarkable, if you will remember when mubarak was overthrown and the military defense minister took the podium. well, he was alone. look at what asisi has done. he took the podium and he was flanked by the secular leadership, mohamed baradei. the head of the coptic church. the director of the university. the highest voice in sunni islam. and others. and even islamist parties that are not affiliated with the muslim brotherhood. so there's something different happening here. it's not just a military move. it's a military move that's bringing together, if you will, the non-muslim brotherhood elements of the core

constituencies in egypt. and this is -- if he -- if the military can keep this type of political -- together, i think there can be -- let me put it this way. the possibilities for a political transition in egypt to a pluralistic governance system may be possible. >> that would be the best case scenario under the circumstances. especially if that can be done peacefully. you know the muslim brotherhood, they've been waiting as you know, ambassador, for, what, 80 years to reach this point. are they simply going to give up right now and walk away and say, nevermind? >> no. i think in your discussion with fareed the muslim brotherhood may react violently. if you look at the television screens as they're being portrayed, the muslim brotherhood demonstrations are sullen. they are resentful.

and the question is what action are they going to take? and that can lead to some violence in egypt, which would be really a very negative development. but you'll remember, remember 1992 when the algerian military moved in to deny the islamic salvation front from taking over in the parliamentary elections where they were sure to win. and they eliminated them. and at the time it was considered to be a victory against islamic takeover, very important arab country, algeria. big hydrocarbon producer. we at the time when i was assistant secretary to the middle east bureau at the state department, i made a public statement. i said, you know, while we are for one man, one vote, we are not for one man, one vote, one time. we're very suspect of these islamic radical parties that can come to power, but using the

democratic process, but once in power, become exclusive and deny that very democratic process. there's a parallel here with the muslim brotherhood. and i think what happens in egypt as you well know is critical for the rest of the arab world. >> because, as you know, ambassador, egypt is the largest of all of the arab countries. what, 80 million or 90 million people there. it has been a close friend over the years with the united states. the u.s. and the egyptians, they have a very close military relationship, strategic relationship. it's been deteriorating in more recent years. especially over the past year. but it's been historically over the past 30 years very, very close. and so many of these egyptian generals, as you also well know, were actually received some training in the united states. so there is a good military to military relationship. ambassador, hold on for a moment. because ben wedeman is right near the pro-morsi

demonstrations who are sullen, who are angry, and we're anxious to know, and i'm deeply concerned, ben, to see how they're going to react. whether there will be violence in the face of this announcement from the egyptian general. >> reporter: yes, wolf. the initial reaction was quite angry. what was interesting was that the broadcast system here did broadcast live general sisi's statement this evening. but was quickly drowned out by boos and jeers. and shortly after the speech was over there, we started to hear a chant from the crowd saying "down with military rule." and then they were chanting something which means "invalid." that, of course, is referring to the new rulers of egypt. now, we are hearing reports that up the street from here, there is -- there has been the sound of gunfire. we don't know the source of that

gunfire. but certainly what we've seen over the last few days was preparations for trouble. we saw men training with sticks and shields, wearing motorcycle helmets. now, they told us the reason for these preparations was for the possibility of anti-morsi people coming to clash with them. certainly this in a way is a camp, a group of people who are prepared for trouble. there hasn't been a call yet for anybody to go out and confront the army. but certainly the mood here is very dark. very angry. and we're hearing also chants of something which means "victory or mart tyrdom." >> that's pretty ominous. do you signs of the egyptian army, military personnel, near where you guys are right now? >> reporter: no. from this vantage point, we're

on the roof of a mosque overlooking the main stage. so the military is about 400 yards, 500 yards down this road here. but we can't see it. but we're hearing it from people who are there. >> ben, stand by for a moment. i want to bring back fareed zakaria. fareed, the ambassador made an important point. that the egyptian military, general asisi made a point of surrounding himself with the leader of the el azhar university. one of the major muslim universities in egypt, of course. the leader of the copts, and mohammed elbaradei. seemingly wanting to give the egyptian military some cover that this is not strictly a military coup. what do you make of this? >> i think he's exactly right, that they have tried to portray this as a kind of restoration of

democracy. look, there's a possibility that it succeeds. in a sense, there are two stories here. two historical parallels. there was a turkish coup in which an islamist party was ousted by the military. and the military said, you know, let's have a do-over. you guys went too far. we're not fwoigoing to rule, bu we're going to throw it back -- have new elections. that worked out all right. the algerian case which ed mentioned, where the military displaced what was -- what appeared to be the ruling -- the rules majority which was islamist, that unleashed ten years of violent civil war, hundreds of thousands of people dead, millions of peoples displaced. so i very much hope what we end up with is something closer to the turkish soft coup than the algerian one. but all of it will depend on this central question that you've been pushing, getting at, wolf. which is how will the muslim brotherhood react? because what is different in this case from almost any other

case is you have a very well organized political movement. the brotherhood. that has been in existence for 80 years. that has been well organized for 30 or 40 years. that may have only about 25 or 30% of egypt with it. but that's pretty hard core support. and that's the kind of support that goes out on the streets and stays out on the streets. >> fareed, stand by. reza sayah is near the anti-morsi demonstrators at tahrir square right now. reza, this is a historic moment in egypt right now. could go in either direction. there could be a relatively smooth, quiet transfer of power, if you will. on the other hand, there could be some violence. so far what are you seeing? >> reporter: well, this place is rocking, wolf. tens of thousands of people here. maybe more. celebrating because their unlikely mission is accomplished. they've been out for months pushing for the ouster of

president morsi. just about an hour ago, word came that they'd reached their goal. president morsi no longer the leader of this government. and when it comes to the transition to the next government, this country has had one shot at it. it has had some practice. it obviously didn't work out. but perhaps they've learned some lessons. maybe the next transition will be a little smoother. there's obviously a lot of taukt about the reaction, the possibility reaction from the muslim brotherhood. will there be a backlash from the muslim brotherhood? it's important to know the speech tonight delivered by abdell fattah asisi, he was flanked by a number of very conservative religious leader. they can certainly play a critical role in this, in easing the tension, in convincing the islamists, the supporters of president mohamed morsi, now former president mohamed morsi,

that what happened over the past few days was not necessarily an assault on islam. it was all aimed at and a result of what many describe as the incompetence of the muslim brotherhood's political leadership. so certainly look for those religious leader who is, again, were sitting right next to the head of the armed forces, general abdell fattah asisi. look for them to play a critical role in uniting this country. certainly moving forward a lot of unknown. as we speak, let's see if we can tilt up. a lot of theatrics here put on by the military. look at that military chopper. being hit by laser pens. and every time these choppers go by, the crowd just goes absolutely nuts.

>> it does look like a huge celebration there, reza. it looks as i said sort of like new year's eve there. this is one side. there's another side we saw with ben wedeman. the pro-morsi elements in egypt backed by the muslim brotherhood. they are furious right now. deeply, deeply concerned about what has just happened. the removal of the leader of the muslim brotherhood, the president of egypt, mohamed morsi. he is now no longer the leader. and reza, you've been in egypt now for a while. what happens? are we going to see mohammed morsi? is he under -- effectively under house arrest? is he going to be allowed to make a statement? do we have any clue what happens to him now? >> reporter: at this point, this is unclear, wolf. but by any measure this is a low point for the muslim brotherhood. a humiliating moment. and consider their history.

this is a movement that started decades ago. they were oppressed, sidelined. sometimes even tortured and killed. most recently by the mubarak regime. but they stayed organized. they persevered. they endured. all of the sudden after the revolution of 2011, they came to power. they won parliamentary elections. all of a sudden they found one of their members, president mohamed morsi, as the leader of this country. this was their moment after decades of oppression. but a shocking turn of events after one year in office. president morsi ousted in what many will call a coup. but these people down here will tell you don't call it a coup. this is the egyptian revolution part two. and it's important to note that 2 1/2 years ago when the revolution happened and then the military took over and mohamed morsi took over, many people down here said it wasn't a revolution.

our job is not done. this was an uprising. now, we're going to wait to see if they're going to be satisfied with the next leadership coming in. if they will finally say revolution has arrived, wolf. >> reza, stand by for a moment. because these are craitical moments in egypt. the entire world is watching what's going on right now. there's so much at stake. egypt being the largest of all of the arab countries. 80 million or 90 million people who live there. jill dougherty is at the state department. jill, we were just doing some research on what the obama administration needs to decide now, yjill. because if the obama administration decides that the testimo democratically elected president of egypt, mohamed morsi, elected a year ago, got 52% of the vote, the opposition got 48% of the vote. if a democratically elected president of egypt has been removed by the egyptian military in what has obviously been

described as a coup, that would almost certainly, unless the u.s. decides to abandon some interpretation -- the law of the land, it would interpret the u.s. would need to at least for the time being suspend military and economic assistant to egypt. is that your understanding of what the law in the united states is? >> the law from what we understand, wolf, is that under normal circumstances, if there is a coup, they have to restrict the money, the aid that they give to any country. however, they say when -- whether that restriction is triggered depends on the thorough analysis of the particular situation. so, in other words, if they look at this as we're -- this is being explained to us, as they look at this, if there are different circumstances, if there is something else that they take into consideration, they do not necessarily have to end that aid. at least that is what we understand. and, wolf, you know, you have to -- if you've listened to what

the state department has been saying, all along since this really began, they've been indicating that elections are not necessarily democracy. in other words, he is -- they didn't say this directly. but he was elected. but he was not carrying out what some of the people wanted. and i would presume a lot of the people wanted. so that already, they were laying the ground for the fact that they don't necessarily, obviously, agree with the things that he didn't do. it was more what he didn't do. remember, the promises he made for economic reform. that was crucial. he at no time follow through when he promised secretary kerry that he would do that. and unfortunately now you can see that they are paying the price with a lot of economic problems. so the united states, although it says it isn't taking sides, it is very clear that they felt that mohamed morsi did not do what he really had to do. >> and the military has put in

place a new temporary leader until new elections take place in egypt. we're just being told who that is. it's the judge adlai monsieur. one of the chief judges of the is supreme constitutional court of egypt. adlai monsieur will be the new leader of egypt for the time being. let me go back to what the new u.s. law is. i'm going to read it to our viewers. i think this is significant on what would trigger a suspension of the 1.3 to 1.5 billion dollars a year in u.s. military aid and $250 million to $350 million a year in nonmilitary aid to egypt from u.s. taxpayers. section 7008 of the 2012 appropriations act as carried forward under the continuing resolution that was passed, it's a little bureaucratese in washington. it restricts certain assistant to the government of any country whose dually elected head of government is deposed by

military coup or decree or a coup or decree in which the military plays a decisive role. that words seem to be pretty clear. if the military plays a decisive role, and clearly in this particular case the military played what is arguably a very decisive role, the u.s. would need presumably to suspend military and economic assistance to egypt. but you also point out there may be a loophole. there may be a legal interpretation that the obama administration can put forward that would not necessarily trigger that kind of suspension. we'll soon find out. jill, just to be precise, there's been no definitive word from the state department yet on their interpretation of whether or not this was a coup. >> right. they have not at least in the past couple of minutes said whether this is technically a coup. and then, of course, even if it is, they do have that clause that you were looking at, wolf. whether or not they have that

restriction depends on their analysis of the particular situation. and, wolf, another factor that's very important is the security of americans who are there. you do know, and we've been reporting, that the embassy is closed today. it will be closed tomorrow. it's the fourth of july. they were going to be closed over the weekend. but they are making sure and they have been watching this very carefully, remember in light of what happened in benghazi. around that time, you know, a year ago when there was a very sad situation in benghazi with the ambassador killed. they do not want any type of repetition of anything. they feel, of course, it's a very different country from lib libya. so there is a lot more protection, a lot more support, they're watching it very carefully. they've warned americans, and unfortunately one young american was stabbed a few days ago, but they've warned americans to stay away from any demonstrations. and you can bet that that is -- they're watching very carefully

to make sure that americans will try to stay out of the way. and the ambassador, by the way, is there. and there are staff in the embassy. it's just closed for the public. >> all right. hold on for a moment. because we are now getting some tweets from the now former president of egypt, mohamed morsi. i'm going to read some of them to our viewers. this one you can see over there. president morsi urges everyone to adhere to peacefulness and avoid shedding flood of fellow countryman. president morsi urges civilianed and military members to uphold the law and the constitution, not to accept that coup which turns egypt backwards. another tweet, president morsi armed force's announcement is rejected by all three men who struggled for a civil democratic egypt. mona tahawi is joining us. you've been watching egypt for a long time. give us your immediate reaction

to what we have just seen over the past 30 minutes. >> my immediate reaction is i'm happy to see mohamed morsi go. even though he was testimo democratically elected he alienated and marginalized his opposition. grabbed tremendous powers for himself. i'm very, very wary of the military's rule. egypt has been under military rule for 60 years. we fought hard to end the military rule after mubarak stepped down. we most focus really, really hard in egypt. my main concern is that egyptians do not kill egyptians. so no bloodshed. and an immediate and as soon as possible transition to civilian power. because those millions of people who marched against morsi over the past few days, those same millions will march against the generals with asisi at the head to tell them we want a free egypt, not a military led egypt. >> a lot of americans are looking at this, mona, as you well know and they're saying, look, the guy, morsi, he was democratically elected. if you don't like his policies,

you have new elections, if you will. but you don't let the military call the shots and say he's gone even though there are some significant demonstrations on the street. i guess that's the way a lot of people will say this is a especially since last november, morsi assumed tremendous powers for himself, to rush through a constitution that only strengthened two groups, the muslim brotherhood and the military. so ironically enough now, the same military that told morsi he's no longer president, they were strengthened by the constitution that many of us, who dot not belong to the brotherhood, did not like. morsi spent the last year consolidating his and the brotherhood's power, intimidating and alienating opponents. there were more caseses of insulting the president than under 30 years of mubarak. people didn't suddenly wake up on sunday and say let's get rid

of a democratically elected leader. i would also remind americans most people voted against him in the last few days than voted for him. he's made it impossible for us to have institutions to oppose him, so the only avenue was the street. the ideal scenario for me is to keep the military out of this, and as i said, the military is put on notice that those millions who marched will march against them, too. we want a free egypt, not a militarily-led egypt. >> mona, stand by for a moment. i want to bring in candy crowley. i know you spent time with general dempsey today for an interview that's scheduled to air sunday on "state of the union." you spoke about egypt. we also know that general dempsey has been in touch with the head of the egyptian military, share with our viewers what he told you today. >> a couple things.

first, wolf, we had this conversation before we knew that morsi was out. there were demonstrations on the treat, about a half hour before that first word came that the military had told morsi he was no longer president. that's when this took place, just to put that out there for perspective. i asked him about military to military contact. he said he thinks that they were -- that they are stronger than they have been over the past ten years. he said that most of his conversation with the egyptian military in recent days has been about the safety of americans. he said there are about several hundred americans in egypt working there. he talked about the 60,000 or so that hold dual passports, american and egyptian. he said i wanted their word that they would keep them safe and in fact they would keep safe all the people of egypt. he also talked about -- we talked about a democracy and these folks want to throw out a

guy that was elected. he said, again, talking about a close enough relationship with the military, he listened to their concerns, but he said, you know, at the end of the day it's their country and they will find their way, but there will be consequences if it is badly handled. i mean, there are laws that bind us on how we deal with these kinds of situations. i asked him to explain action and he said, for instance, if this were to be seed as a coupe -- very carefully worded -- if this were seen as a coupe, it would limit our able to have the relationship we need with the egyptian forces. i asked him what was made of all this, and he said, look, democracy takes a long time to stick. so again carefully worded, and said before we knew morsi was out. irmgts yeah, if in fact the u.s. determines this was a coupe, then there would be significant ramifications on that

u.s./egyptian military to military relationship and the extensive aid, 1.3 to 1.5 billion a year in military aid. and also economic aid to egypt, all sorts of programs could be endangered if the president of the united states and the secretary of state and the defense secretary, they conclude that this was a military coupe, who knows what the ramifications could be. candy, thanks very much for that report. i want to go back to tahrir square. they're celebrating, they're hugely optimistic right now, redsa. i want the pictures to speak for themselve themselves. >> reporter: it's remarkable the

perseverance of thinks demonstrator. one of the outcome from the revolution is egyptians learned how to demonstrate and speak out. you've seen that over the past 2 1/2 years. you're seeing it tonight. what is remarkable is this campaign that started months ago. a campaign to push president morsi out. it started back in november. only five months after he took office, after he delivered the controversial constitutional decrees. that's when we initiali heard the first calls for him to be removed. that initial campaign petered out, it died down. three months ago something called the rebel campaign, with a petition drive, calling for new elections, calling for president morsi's ouster. that petition drive, according to organizers managed to collect 22 million signatures, roughly 9 more million signatures than president morsi won votes last

year when he won the presidency, and the campaign's message was clear -- mr. morsi, more egyptians want you out than they want you in. what this three-month compare did action it created a groundswell of support for owns of president morsi and a groundswell of rage against mr. morsi. on top of that you had this country's economic woes, the power cuts, energy shortages, and it culminated on sunday, the anniversary of president morsi's presidency, with the mass protests, not just here, but all over the country, millions demanded president morsi to step aside. a day later in came the armed forces with the ultimatuultimat today he is gone. >> thanks for that. right now we have a retired

egyptian general is joining us, who's there at the demonstration. give us a sense of what's happening in egypt right now? >> well, actually i'm in the middle, people are saluting me now, people are very happy, and i'm next to tahrir square, and cannot really tell you. people are waving to me with the egyptian flags. people are very, very happy. can you repeat the question again? >> i know you're very excited, and millions of egyptians are just as equally excited that morsi is no longer the president of egypt. the opposition, though, the muslim brotherhood especially, they are calling this a coup.

>> it's not a military coup at all meaning the army would rule the country, control everything. this is not what we are having now in egypt. now we have in egypt what we have here is the egyptian armed forces supported the will of the egyptians. 33 million people in the streets of egypt since more than four days ago they have only one -- so the point is it is the large

largest. what do you see happening in the short term? how long do you think it would take for new elections to take place? >> i think the entire period would be 9 to 12 months. the head of the constitution board will be the head of the country. of course, we're going to have a new cabinet, a new cabinet. i believe what we have now is subject to ministers. i'm sure it won't be 17 and 20 ministers for the transitional period. during that period, a new constitution, new parliamentary -- election held, and election for the new parliament as well as election for the new president. i believe the entire thing will take between 9 to 12 months. i think that's the intention now. >> general, thank you so much for joining us. i know you're celebrating, but on the other hand there are a lot of egyptians who are deeply, deeply frustrated and angry right now over what has been

announced in the past few hours in egypt. the egyptian president morsi is -- i'll be back with our coverage one hour from now. jake tapper picks up our coverage in "the lead" right now. i'm jake tapper. this is "the lead." i want to welcome or viewers in the u.s. and around the world. breaking news, egypt's now former president mohammed morsi has been ousted. the egyptian army is not using that worse, but morsi is on his twitter account. he tweets -- measures and nounced by armed forces leadership represent a full coup, categorically rejected by all free men of our nation. this after the military announced that morsi is out and that the constitution has been suspended. according to the military, egypt's constitutional cord will serve as a temporary presidency until a new