tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 10, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
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film at national archives, an incredibly rare find. this is fdr. you see the president being wheeled down a ramp to a visit at uss baltimore in july of 1944. such a brief window into his life, but one that really didn't exist until now. the question is, did presidents have too much privacy then or do they not get enough now? let us know what you think. let us know what you think. ac 360 starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com we begin with the zimmerman trial, the trial judge pushing both sides hard, the defense rested today. the prosecution reagan rebuttal and the schedule set for closing arguments. the prosecution asked to allow jurors to allow lesser charges. mark o'mara spoke today saying the jury has what it needs to acquit. he joins us in the hour ahead and we'll talk with one of the
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martin family attorneys. a very full night. what happened in court savidge >> reporter: it's the question dominating this trial, would george zimmerman take the stand? and today the judge asked him directly. >> have you made a decision -- >> yes, your honor. >> what is your decision, sir? >> after consulting with counsel, not to testify your honor. >> is it your decision not to testify in this case? >> yes, your honor. >> and are you making that decision freely and voluntarily? >> yes, your honor. >> reporter: with that the defense rested. >> with all that in mind, the evidence, the defense would rest. >> reporter: much of the day was spent on a use of force consultant who testified based on his analysis, zimmerman was non-confrontational lacking a warrior mentality, but it was a dummy that proved to be one of the strongest witnesses of the day. it began when john guy grabbed a life-sized man can to show their
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version of events. >> do you recognize this as being a human-type figure, right? >> yes, sir. >> okay. it's actually got a belly button, right? >> reporter: it was here the state conceded trayvon martin could be on top of zimmerman, suggesting he was pulling away at the time he was shot. the prosecution argued zimmerman was on top. >> would it be consistent 90 degrees trayvon martin was backing up and the defendant raised his gun. >> reporter: the demonstration brought jurors to their feet to get a better view realizing the impact mark ocho marp 'mara sei property for his demonstration. >> were the injuries on the back of his head similar to doing this on cement. >> reporter: two emotional witnesses, a young mother that described a home invasion in the same neighborhood where the shooting happened where she had to look herself in her infant son's room. >> i was locked in my son's
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bedroom and he was shaking the doorknob trying to get in. i was sitting there with rusty scissors and my son in my arm. >> reporter: she was not only a charter witness explaining how zimmerman counseled her but a neighborhood on alert after previous crimes and zimmerman's father who answered what is something for the defense and prosecution, whose voice was screaming for help the night martin died? >> absolutely, it's my son george. >> reporter: and in a move many court watchers anticipated, the prosecution asked the judge for lesser charges to be included, manslaughter and aggravated assault. the judge will make that decision thursday and whether stand your ground will be included in the jury instructions. closing arguments are expected tomorrow, as well. martin savidge, cnn sanford, florida. >> wow, fascinating day in court. let bring in the panel of legal analyst, sunny hostin, mark
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garagos how the criminal justice system suspects works and doesn't. you said you would eat your hat if george zimmerman took the stand. i'm sure you're pleased you don't have to do that. >> the one thing i'm not pleased about is i raised the odds from 50 to 100 to 1 and nobody would take me up on it and i'm disappointed. i would have made enough money to have bought jeff's new paper back that came out yesterday. >> thank you for the plug. jeff, we have this digital dash borpd question, how much of an impact will zimmerman make not taking the stand. nobody thought there was a good chance of him taking the stand. >> there is a great question that comes up in every criminal case. the judge instructs the jury to draw no inferences from the fact the defendant didn't firefighter. he has an absolute right. the burden of proof is on the prosecution but there is an
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expectation that a defendant gets on the witness stand and says i didn't do it to jurors. i think in this case since the jury has heard so much from george zimmerman, whether it's these videotaped interviews with fox news and the like, i think his failure to testify really works only to his benefit here because the jury has heard his side of the story from him but they haven't had a real cross-examination of him. >> sunny, what stood out to you today in court? watching them work with that dum dummy, that model, i'm wondering how it played in the courtroom? >> it played well in the courtroom. jurors love demonstrations. they love these sort of courtroom demonstrations and it was pretty powerful, especially with john guy using it. i mean, i will tell you that a lot of the courtroom watchers are calling him prosecutor mcdreamy. a lot looked over to see what he was doing. i think it went over well.
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this witness was not a good witness for the defense. i'm not quite sure why they called him. they didn't need to call this use of force expert and the prosecution did a really good job of taking a defense witness and turning him into a prosecution witness by doing this in courtroom demonstration. it was pretty effective. >> danny, do you think it was effective for the prosecution? >> you have to balance the risk and rewarpd of calling a witness. when you have a use of force expert, they are testifying to what police officers divides force into these different layers. the problem is the supreme court said the appropriate amount of use of force is subjective. do you have an expert saying this use of force was proper? the prosecution had the opportunity to cross examine this expert and inquire about certain things that may have not been appropriate uses of force. with every witness, there is a risk and reward and i can see critics saying this may be a bad witness for the defense, but the
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defense said they will meet all evidence head on with their own evidence. they won't leave anything to silence. i admire that approach. we can debate over whether it was a good call or bad call but they have been consistent and you have to respect that. >> jeff, martin savidge said in his piece the prosecution now in that demonstration acknowledging maybe george zimmerman was the one on the ground but trayvon martin could have been pulling away. was that -- i mean, are they changing their story? >> i think they have to. the evidence in this case is pretty much undisputed that trayvon martin was on top, and i think that's a big problem for the prosecution, because ultimately, the issue here is what was the aggressor? you can say okay, perhaps george zimmerman threw the first punch but it's pretty tough to argue that a guy who is under someone else is the aggressor. now of course, the question remains, was it a legitimate use of force to shoot the person on top?
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but i think it's a very helpful fact for the prosecution that the evidence is now pretty clear that trayvon martin was on top of george zimmerman. >> you mean helpful for the defense? >> yes, i'm sorry, i meant for the defense. >> mark, does it surprise you to hear the prosecution, or do you think it's a big problem for the prosecution that now all of a sudden today, they are like well, maybe he was on top? >> i think it's a huge problem. in spite of having prosecutor mcdreamy tell you the exact opposite in his statement and come back and get on top and demonstrate that maybe he was going back, i'm going to reiterate what i said yesterday. when this case has completely inverted the burden of proof and what normally happens in a case, his -- when he says isn't it possible or isn't it consistent that he was pulling away, he's admitting that it's just as consistent or reasonable that he wasn't. that's the definition of
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reasonable doubt. the prosecutor just sat there and demonstrated for the jury well, you can believe what i just did or you can believe what the defense did, both are reasonable interpretations. if there is two reasonable interpretations, guess what, you must find for the defendant and find him not guilty. so i don't -- i'm completely perplexed as to what they will argue after they have kind of taken this two-fold approach. >> sunny, aren't they saying we don't know what happened? i mean -- >> no -- >> it could have been this, it could have been that? >> i don't think so. i think they were smart to give these alternate scenarios to these witnesses, asking well what if trayvon martin was on top but leaning back trying to get away and george zimmerman was then more aggressive, didn't exhaust all reasonable means to get away? i think that was effective. that doesn't mean you're conceding trayvon martin was on top --
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>> where -- >> it does mean -- >> the defense is saying we have a clear idea what happened and this is our video and final presentation and the prosecution admitted we don't really know what happened, so here are a bunch of alternatives, see what sticks. >> what the prosecution, anderson, will argue is we know what george zimmerman says happened, didn't happen. so you got to now look at all the other evidence -- except sunny -- >> what they have done is they have conceded over the course of the trial that what zimmerman said happened is more likely than what they first said happened. >> i don't -- i don't think so. >> they have been educated because if they have been educated -- >> that's not right. >> it is different -- it is different than what they started out saying. >> the prosecution said zimmerman is on top. if you don't believe us that zimmerman was on top, here is a viable theory where trayvon
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martin is on top and then following almost immediately after mark o'mara adds on to that with his demonstration, which was a brilliant piece of improve. they probably had no idea where that was going and mark o'mara took a chance, a calculate risk, and i think it worked out for him. so fascinating that we finally have an alternate theory from the prosecution themselves. they have two theories and to echo mark, the jury will be told if you have two perfectly reasonable alternate theories, if it's 50/50 and coming from both the prosecution, essentially you must, not may, you must acquit. >> wow, all right -- >> it doesn't have to be -- >> go ahead. >> it doesn't have to be 50/50. if it's reasonable, doesn't have to be as reasonable. if it's reasonable, you must acquit. >> everyone stay there. we'll pick up the conversation coming up next. we've been talking about mark o'mara. he joins us and we'll and why his client did not testify, we
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know the answer, why he wants the jury to only consider the maximum charges, not the lesser charges and daryl parks is joining us. i'll get his take on the day in court and the job he believes and the family believes prosecutor haves been doing. follow me on twitter at anderson cooper. a lot more ahead. we'll be right back. i missed a payment. aw, shoot. shoot! this is bad. no! we're good! this is your first time missing a payment. and you've got the it card, so we won't hike up your apr for paying late. that's great! it is great! thank you. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card with late payment forgiveness. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members,
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he kept zimmerman off the stand and pushed for a second-degree murder charge, no lesser charges and wrestled with a dummy, anyway you slice it a big day for mark o'mara who i spoke with a short time ago. mark, there seemed to be a bit of confusion when the judge asked mr. zimmerman whether he would testify or not and said he needed more time to decide. what finally made him decide not to? i assume for the last most of this trial you've known he's not going to testify. >> no, actually that's not true. he was really considering testifying. he wanted to talk to his jury and tell them what he did, why he did it and what he was facing when he made that decision to fire the shot. i think the confusion was more of salmon ticks. when that decision is made it's with consultation with counsel and george wanted to include that information. >> what finally convinced him not to do it? i assume your advice was not to
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do it? >> yeah, the way i looked at it, as i said before, i have to convince myself the state has proven themself beyond a reasonable doubt before i consider putting a client on the stand. i don't think they presented it so there is no reason to put him on the stand when he's given five or six or seven statements the jury can consider. >> the prosecution asked for manslaughter and lesser charges. a lot expected that to happen. why do you feel that's legally inappropriate? >> i don't think the facts of the case support a manslaughter charge. i think the facts in this case support nothing but self-defense. if the jury doesn't buy self-defense and thinks he acted in ill will, spite and hay friday, they can convict on second-degree murder. if that's the theory of the state's case, manslaughter is not appropriate. doesn't fit the facts of the case and i don't want the jury to have what they prosteve to be
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compromised. they should look at the facts, the law and apply it. >> what a lot of people watching may not realize is aggravated assault carries the potential of life in prison for the florida gun statute, the same if he was convicted of second-degree murder. >> potentially. it depends how they charge it and what the jury comes back with but manslaughter is a serious charge, as well. >> the judge said you can't use the 3 d but can use them for the closing statement. is that the best case scenario, show the reenactment, prosecution doesn't get to attack it on cross-examination. >> perfect answer. yes, that's true. the animation didn't need to be in evidence. i would like to have it there. i understand the state's concerns and the court's ruling. as long as it's there for me to show the jury what probably happened that night, which is what that animation shows, i'm okay with it. >> you said you didn't release the thc levels because they were
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minimum. you've known how low the levels are so why do you fight so hard to have it admitted? >> because i think that should be our decision rather than the court's decision. i think when we have relevant admissible evidence it should be allowed in and we make the decision as part of the defense strategy, whether or not we'll present it. i don't think the court should preemp us and at the end she didn't and we make the decision keeping in mind the sustained stance of the evidence and how it may persuade the jury and keeping in mind the sensitivities that we have had throughout this trial and also pretrial concerning trayvon martin's family and the sensitivities of what they are going through now. so the decision was made it wasn't going to be probative enough for us to deal with the concerns surrounding it. >> how surprised were you that the judge didn't allow at least some of those text messages in? >> well, i respect the court's ruling. i was surprised because i think they are proper evidence found
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dags to let in, completely relevant particularly when the statute says that the jury is to consider the relative physical abilities of both parties, they certainly have information concerning george zimmerman's abilities and i think they should have had evidence fairly conclusive evidence of trayvon martin's sensibilities or abilities physically and, you know, we respect the judge's ruling. we'll move forward from here. >> i want to play a little bit from the viewers, yesterday, it happened in the evening in the marathon session where co-counsel don west said the state lied at times and certainly been slow to give over evidence and in fact, not given over some evidence. let's play that. >> it's simply unfair for mr. zimmerman not to be able to put on his defense because of the state's tactics. it was a strategy because they had it in january and kept it from us and made us spend 10, 20, 30, 100 hours digging it out and lying to the court and it's
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our fault? >> a, how extensive, if you agree with co-counsel, how extensive do you think the lies are and is there other contentions on how the state handled the case? >> i complained to you a few times about discovery. this is the case i filed not one but six motions for sanctions. in my practice never filed a sanctions violation request with the court. in this particular case and what frustrated mr. west so much so we know from evidence from the whistle blower from the state attorney's office that they had evidence of these reports that were generated in the third week of january of 2013. we didn't receive the information until june 4th. that type of discovery violation is significant, and it negatively impacted our way to get prepared for the trial, and i can understand and agree with mr. west's frustration because
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we shouldn't have to try the case by am wish. >> what's the most important thing you need to convey to the jury? have you mapped out your closing argument? >> the most important part i think is to make sure that this jury looks at this case and decides whether or not george acted in self-defense. i think there is overwhelming evidence he acted in self-defense. there is little evidence he didn't. if the jury listens to the instructions given by the court, looks at the evidence and compares the two, not to do anything else, don't give us more than what we deserve, the facts and the law then they will conclude george acted in self-defense. my fear is because of bias or sympathy they may get from the state's closing arguments where they try to bring up the way they yelled at him and the way george yelled at him and mention these loss of the 17-year-old, that the jury may consider a compromised victim, we don't want a compromised verdict just like we don't want a jury pardon.
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we want a verdict based on the facts of the law. >> is that something you've already written out or do in the final hours? >> i don't write it out. i know what i want to say. i don't write things out. hopefully i'll be able to communicate verbly what i want to. >> mark o'mara, thanks for joining us. >> sure. trayvon martin's family has watched the state of florida speak for them and their deceased son and their lawyers, try a case they themselves are so connected to. joining me now is daryl parks. daryl, appreciate your joining us. what is your reaction to not testify? >> george i think realized had he taken the stand, he would have had to face a tough cross-examination but also he sat there and saw the many different statements he's given presented in this case. >> is the martin family disappointed they won't get to hear zimmerman cross-examined in
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an open court or is it somewhat of a relief they don't have to go through hearing it? >> i don't think either way on that one, anderson. they -- they believe that, you know, had he taken the stand he would say the same things he said before, however, i think that he made a decision based on the fact he would be cross-examined on many inconsistencies he said in the course of this case. >> the state asked for manslaughter and aggravated assault to be included in the charges read to the jury in audition to second-degree murder. does the martin family, do you have an opinion on that, if he was convicted of a lesser charge, he could still do just about the same amount of time because of mandatory gun sentencing. >> all along, they have wanted whatever the law required in this situation in terms of his punishment, so they have not pushed for one or the other. as you point out, the criminal punishment will be about the same at the end of the day in terms of it being something that goes between 25 and life. >> so they aren't so focused on
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who it's second-degree murder or manslaughter charge? >> no, you have to remember, this has just been an emotional time and as you heard from the father, tracy martin, on the stand, he and the mother traumatized and i can tell you the last two days have been tough because now the whole endurance of this is wearing on them. so they just want to see him punished and to pay his debt for taking trayvon's life. they are still just in a point of disbelief of having lost their son. >> i don't know if you talked to tracy martin about his testimony, about how he felt it went. there were two police officers on the stand who were testifying that he had initially said he couldn't identify his son's voice. tracy martin on the stand that's not the case. i said i wasn't sure but now that i listened to it, i am sure. how did he feel he did on the stand? >> he did good and let's back up and think about what he heard. we heard tracy martin say that
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he backed away and we heard the detective -- what he said was under his breathe tracy martin mumbled something and that hi interpreted what tracy martin said as a no. the fact that he said he interpreted made it clear it was somewhat not clear but also, serrino said singleton was not there. so there is issues there in terms of what he said, but most importantly, though, we must remember he heard a series of 911 calls and at the end this gun shot. that was the final thing that took his son's life. in terms of whose voice it was, that wasn't the focus. the focus was on the gunshot and that gunshot is the climax of that tape, not the voice that you hear. >> mark o'mara says he's convinced the state has not proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt of second-degree murder. are you convinced the state has proved second-degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt? >> i think they either have it or very close and i think that's why the law allows the lesser included offenses, so at this point, all we want is justice
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and so we believe we're very close to getting that justice. >> daryl parks, appreciate your time tonight. thank you. we got a lot more to get to with the panel, the no non-sense judge and exclusive interview with the police chief billy. you may remember he lost his job with public anger over the fact zimmerman wasn't arrested right away. what he's saying now how he handled the case coming up.
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night and throughout today. look at some of these exchanges, a few examples of the tight ship that she runs. >> please don't go off focus here. >> no, no, no -- >> don't no, no, me, either. let's top this right now. i have told counsel before, first of all, nobody talks over the other, the court reporter can only take one person down at a time. i will have not have any speaking objections in the courtroom. >> i would like to making a speaking objection. >> you can't make an objection to your own question. >> turn down the volume. is there another phone we can call into that is a land line without pop-ups of people calling? >> hang up the phone. >> get to your point. i told you when we're at the bench i don't like these, you know, you do this i'm going to do this argument. >> i'll speak on mr. zimmerman's behalf. >> i'm asking your client questions, please, mr. west. >> i object to the court inquiring of mr. zimmerman as to
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his decision about whether or not to testify -- >> your objection is over ruled. and so have i. >> i'm physically unable to keep up this pace much longer. it's 10:00 at night. we started this morning. we had full days every day. weekends, depositions at night. >> and she walked out with that. cnn legal analyst and sunny hostin and jeffrey toobin, criminal defense attorneys danny savalas and marskand mark garag >> do you get a sense they are on thin ice or things happen with a high profile case. >> this happens in a courtroom. the judge has to take control this is a dream judge for a case like this. she's kept a tight ship with really skilled aggressive attorneys. if she didn't take charge, do you know what this trial would have looked like? it would have been a circus.
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so you want your judge to, you know, really take control of the courtroom. i will say when she walked out last night, i thought perhaps was a little over the line, but all and all, i've been watching her and she's been consocial security -- consistent, fair, she's been a great judge i think. >> if the lesser charges are allowed in by the judge, does that make it harder for the jury or give them an out and make it easier? >> the defense is worried, as you learned, in your interview that the compromise verdict would be something that might be appealing to some of them. the defense wanted a high stakes, high risk, high reward strategy, all of nothing, second-degree murder or acquittal. the middle ground does give the defense an option and i think one reason the defense is pushing so hard for this lesser included offense is because the case has not gone in as well as they have expected and the
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reason the defense doesn't want it, is they want an up or down vote on second-degree murder or he walks. >> and also the defense doesn't want it because as we pointed out last night and earlier tonight, some of these charges, lesser charges could still get equal amount of jail time -- >> the lesser -- >> sorry -- >> when i was a federal prosecutor, we would always ask for an aiding and abetting charge, a lesser charge. aiding and abetting, it's much less. under federal law, ating and abetting carries the same penalties. >> danny -- >> and in florida you have these gun pa gun, mandatory gun sentences. >> they will look at the lesser charges without knowing they are mandatory minimums that are different in every state. but when it comes to guns more and more lots of mando mins. it could land him in jail for a substantial -- >> brandishing a gun in florida
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gives you ten years. >> classifieds on whether you show, demonstrate, several states have similar statutes but the important thing to know is with the mandatory minimums, people will spend a lot more time than the statutory proscribed years. >> mark o'mara said george zimmerman wanted to testify. i mean, lawyers always say that. i don't know if that's really true or not, but do you often have clients who want to testify and you have to say look, it makes no sense to testify or do clients say look, you're the lawyer, you figure it out. >> i have one case in particular where we rested and the client insisted he would take the stand. i actually went into chambers with the client without the prosecutor there, said it was over my objections, i basically quote a friend of mine ben brothman who had a similar situation. you paint a picture and your
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client comes up and urinates on it. >> [ laughter ] >> i know him a lot and i cleaned up the sentence in a little joke in there. the client in that case took the stand, convicted and the jurors came out and were interviewed and said until he took the stand we weren't going to convict. >> wow. >> that's the crazy thing about this business. when you're a criminal defense lawyer, your dream is to try your case within the prosecution's case and get out your theory and every witness you put on, your gut is wrenching that that witness is going to destroy everything that you've done before it, and the worst person to put on is your client, because remember, the client generally has -- does not have the skill set to go up against an experienced prosecutor. when they are in custody have been awakened at 3:00 in the morning, given a piece of sandwich and a rotten apple and
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sit in a holding cell. come out of the cement holding cell and come up against somebody sleeping in their bed and their wife kissed them on the lips and had a starbucks on the way to court. it's an uneven situation and why would you put somebody torturing them in that situation? >> would be of the things the prosecution will bring up is the fact that george sizimmerman's accounts of the facts has changed. did he manipulate details or has his memory suffer because of the hysterical amnesia? one witness for the defense testified to this today. the question is, is it real. randi kaye reports. >> reporter: george zimmerman has a problem, consistency or lack thereof. first he told police trayvon martin jumped out of the bushes, but in this reenactment, less than 24 hours later, there was no mention of bushes. zimmerman had once said martin confronted him, using an
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expletive asking what is your problem homey? that version was later changed. then there is zimmerman's recorded statement saying after she shot martin he spread the teenager's arms. police evidence and photographs show martin was found face down with his arms under his body. was zimmerman charging the story to help his case or could it be memory loss? a phenomenon called hysterical amnesia. mark ruben stein treated hundreds of patients with this. >> it's chemicals in the brain when one is facing a psychologly event and attempts to protect ones self-with the release of the chemicals. the person affected won't remember an entire episode or chunks of an episode. >> reporter: acute stress prevents the brain from storing new memories. in court wednesday, private
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investor dennis root testified for the defense about this. >> per distortion because of the high-stress event alters the manner in which they interpret the information they are receiving. that's a natural human response for anything. >> reporter: if this sounds familiar it's because it was a key top pick in the jodi arias trial. she killed her ex-boyfriend by killing him 30 times, slicing his throat and shooting him in the face but she says she doesn't remember doing that. >> do you have any memory of slashing mr. alexander's throat? >> no. >> reporter: the jury dn't buy it and found her guilty of murder. james holms may also have experienced amnesia. he says he doesn't remember killing 12 and wounding 58 and is said to have asked jailers why he was behind bars. last month, he pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity and remember staff sergeant robert
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bails, the u.s. soldier accused of killing 16 afghans last year? he claimed at first he didn't remember the rampage and later admitted to it. >> it's really a defense mechanism so that the person doesn't experience first-hand or can't we carecall experiencing horror going on at the time. >> reporter: with hysterical amnesia, a person doesn't snap out of it. that's called hollywood amnesia. in some cases bits and pieces of memories do return and that's what george zimmerman's defense team would have you believe happened to him. the prosecution would simply call it lying. randi kaye, cnn new york. coming up, an exclusive interview with billy. he lost his job over the handling of the george zimmerman case. he says whether he feels like he got thrown under the bus or not, next. oh, he's a fighter alright.
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♪ unh ♪ ♪ hey! ♪ ♪ let's go! ♪ [ male announcer ] you can choose to blend in. ♪ ♪ yeah! yeah! yeah! or you can choose to blend out. ♪ oh, yeah-eah! ♪ the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move. regardless of the verdict, the george zimmerman trial changed lives not only for the families involved but the police chief was forced to step down amid angry criticism zimmerman wasn't arrested right away. an interview with chief billy. >> the result of political
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pressure, you lost your job. >> i believe it was political pressure and the fact i upheld my oath. >> reporter: sanford, florida, a town caught in a racially charged death investigation. neighborhood watch captain george zimmerman admitted to shooting and killing unarmed teenager, 17-year-old trayvon martin and at the time billy was the police chief. >> we were investigating the death of trayvon martin, which was a tragedy. you know, it -- we wanted to find out what truly happened and seek justice. >> reporter: lee says the investigation started that night. they took george zimmerman into custody for questioning, but he claimed self-defense and the sanford police department let him go. your lead investigator suggested manslaughter on that initial police report. why is it that, you know, for 40 plus days george zimmerman walked a freeman? >> the laws of the state of florida and the constitution
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require you to have probable cause to arrest someone, that the evidence and the testimony that we had didn't get us to probable cause. you know, if we had people that were witnesses that could tell us that the self-defense claim or the way george zimmerman said things happened, that contradicted that, then we certainly may have probable cause. >> reporter: martin's parents hired benjamin crump, a skilled civil rights lawyer and lit the national uproar. people traveled to sanford to march. >> talk to me about that outside influence. there were civil rights leaders that came to town and protests and, you know, people see this situation differently, but there is a segment of people who said from the beginning at this case that, you know, had george zimmerman been black, he would
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have been arrested. he would have been behind bars. what do you say about that suggestion from people? >> the sanford police department conducted an unbias and professional investigation. race did not come into play for the sanford police department. >> reporter: but the calls for an arrest grew louder and lee says city officials and the city manager, his then boss felt the heat. >> when you look back at what happened, was there a lot of pressure on you to make an arrest? >> there was pressure applied. you know, city manager asked several times during the process, well can an arrest be made now? and i think that was just from not understanding the criminal justice process. it was related to me that they just wanted an arrest. they didn't care if it got dismissed later. you don't do that. >> reporter: in a statement,
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city manager northen tells cnn quote lee told me he took an oath of office and could not make an arrest. once he told me i don't recall asking him about arresting him. is it fair to say the investigating process in a way got hijacked? >> yes, in a number of ways. >> reporter: after lee announced he wouldn't bring charges against zimmerman, police passed the case onto the state attorney's office. the governor then assigned to case to special prosecutor. >> that investigation was taken away from us. we weren't able to complete it, and it was transferred to another district or a different state attorney. so, you know -- and that outside influence changed the course of the way the criminal justice process should work. >> reporter: after ten months on
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the job, lee was temporarily suspended and later fired by the city manager. there was political pressure on one hand. >> sure. >> reporter: did you get a fair shake? >> i don't think so. i upheld my oath. you know, i upheld, you know, my oath to abide by the laws of the state of florida and the constitution, and i'm happy that at the end of the day i can walk away with my integrity. >> reporter: one legal analyst said today billy, chief billy really got thrown under the bu . would you agree? >> yes. >> did the chief say whether or not he's watching the trial closely? >> anderson, he is watching every bit of this trial. you'll remember that he himself testified in this case, and he says when you look at his then officers, what they said on the stand, it coming out in court that they did their job to the
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letter. and though unpopular at the time, lee says that he upheld his oath. the difference, though, here is that lee lost his job. >> one of the key pieces of evidence is that 911 audio where you heard someone screaming, calling out for help. lee didn't want that released, right? he told me about that. he did not want that audio released. here is the thing, when it was played for trayvon martin's family at city hall with the major, with the city manager there, lee says that should have been done differently. it shouldn't have been played with the full group there. in fact, it should have been played individually for each person to hear it accept prettily so they wouldn't be bias with other people around them. so he was against that from the start. >> fascinating interview. thanks so much. a court hearing for the alleged boston bomber. we'll hear about that in a moment. ns. i go to angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town.
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at university of phoenix we kis where it can take you.cation (now arriving: city hospital) which is why we're proud to help connect our students with leading employers across the nation. (next stop: financial center) let's get to work. accomplishing even little things can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis,
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my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. you should not start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have symptoms such as persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. since enbrel helped relieve my joint pain, it's the little things that mean the most. ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. [ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. in federal courted to in boston for dzhokhar tsarnaev and
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his brother set off bombs to turned the marathon into a scene back in april. he faces 30 counts including four counts of murder and pleaded not guilty to all of them. today was his first public appearance since the first arrest. debra was inside the courtroom and joins us now. must be fascinating to be there. what was it like inside the courtroom? >> reporter: it was fascinating because this courtroom was completely packed. people sitting shoulder to shoulder, and within a couple minutes before he walked into that courtroom, nobody said anything. it was completely silent. there were 30 victims and victim's family members sitting in the court when tsarnaev entered, he didn't look at them. he immediately made eye contact with two women sitting in the tsarnaev family row. one of them was holding a child with her, small child, an infant, actually, and when he saw them, he immediately smiled and the two women began to sob. i mean, they were visibly distressed and during this court
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preceding. he was looking around. he kept touching his face. fid getting and ignoring what was going on. the judge was speaking to him. he didn't look at her. as the charges were read, he did stand up and said not guilty to each charge and said it, anderson, in a russian accent. after court, i ran into a couple of his wrestling buddies from high school and they said they were stunned. he never had a russian accent and came to court because they wanted to see if this was the same guy. they said it wasn't, between the russian accent and moving and fhe wasn't the same guy. >> i wounder the idea behind the russian accent. fascinating. let's get caught up on other stories. randi kaye has the 360 news bullet bulletin. >> the cockpit crew of asiana airlines said not to evacuate.
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an evacuation order was given after a flight attendant reported seeing fire. the canadian train that derailed has been suspended and the owner said he doubts the engineers claim he set 11 hand brakes before the cars derailed. 20 people killed, 30 missing. the dow dropped nine points as investors weighed the minutes of the june meeting where the job market needs to improve before they would be ready to slow down the stimulus program. new questions about diet soda. a review of published studies found it may be worse than regular soda. artificial sweeteners may help satisfy sweet cravings but the body may crave more sweets. a beverage group, anderson, dismiss that report. >> thanks very much. we'll be right back.
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that's all for this hour of 360. a reminder, we'll see you an hour from now, a special edition of "360" self-defense or murder, the george zimmerman trial. closing arguments begin tomorrow. loot lots to talk about and an exclusive with mark o'mara, second-degree murder or nothing. an hour from now at 10:00 p.m. eastern and a regular edition of "360" at 11:00. "360" at 11:00. piece morgan live is next. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com george zimmerman's fate will soon be in the hands of six flordia women.
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they will begin deliberations friday. will they find him guilty or not guilty of killing trayvon martin. the most we've heard from the defendant himself. >> did you now have sufficient time to discuss with your attorneys whether or not you wanted to testify in this case? >> yes, your honor. >> i don't need to know what was said but after those discussions, have you made a decision? >> yes, your honor. >> what is your decision, sir. >> after consulting with counsel, not to testify, your honor. so, he won't testify but his defense attorney mark o'mara is talking, striking a confident turn after today's dramatic session. >> i think we have a very, very good chance with the jury right now and with the evidence as presented. he's already given his story or statement five, six, seven times now so the jury has that and we just decided that there was enough evidence in there that we don't need to present any more. >> both sides using high
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