-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com that does it for this edition of "360." thanks for watching. coming up, anderson cooper's report, beauty and the priest. here is piers morgan now. >> this is "piers morgan live." i'm anthony bourdain. welcome to the viewer the in the united states and around the world and i want to welcome the studio audience. tonight, chefs, drugs, national securities and grownups and no

royal babies, no weiner jokes, maybe, i got nothing against weiner but we got more to talk about, like the country's war on drugs and would we be better off if we legalized them? and the nsa hijack, david car and david simon creator of the wire and chefs gone wild. i'll share my favorite cocktail with my special guests and god help us, cronuts. joining me now david carr from "the new york times" and david carnes the creator of the wire. >> briefly, too briefly. >> it's been 40 years since nixon declared war on drugs.

>> public enemy number one in the united states is drug abuse. >> david carr, as you described at length in your harrowing memoir, your drug of choice was crack cocaine, my drug of choice for many years was heroin. all of these years later, 40 years of drug war, would either of us have difficulty anywhere in the united states finding our former drug of choice within 45 minutes? >> i think you and i could walk out of here and within about 90 seconds of looking at least someone come toward us and probably somewhere within five minutes of that, probably west of here we would both be able to take care of whatever we needed. >> and from what i'm reading what i'm hearing, that would be just as true in portland, maine or just about anywhere in the united states. >> it's more true than ever the

threat of drugs to rural areas li like of yets or meth, is easy. you used to have to go to a big place and now you can sit and they will come to you. >> half of the world's incarcerated total, half of the total world are in jail for non-violent drug related purposes. we haven't skimped in locking up people department. who is winning this war, david simon, and who are the casualties of this where you suggested it was a class war instead of drug war. >> there are a lot of losers. we're paying for it, society as a whole. certainly the under class, people of color particularly in this country are the chow that are being chewed up by this war. i think the only people who are

winning right now are those select stockholders and officers of those companies that have created a for profit prison industry that actually, you know, figured out a way to monetize this and worse than that taking profits and lobbying legislatures. if it was ger cone yen and worked you could have an intelligent conversation whether it was worth it or not to destroy this many lives but it doesn't work. the drugs are pure. they are available in far greater, you know, more places. it's astonishing how much failure you can build in 40 years and keep going. >> what about decriminalizing them? >> just ignore them in the sense of stop locking people up. i don't -- i'm not particularly interested in watching whatever misadventure would be an attempt

to legislatively legalize drugs. you can imagine what would happen if that went through state legislators or the u.s. congress, but if you stop doing damage and put the money towards other things integrate and throw it at job training, you couldn't do much more damage than you are doing now and achieve so little. so the idea of actually having an argument about the law is almost fruit l in this kind of, you know, don't be anything but negative on drugs. >> in the wire season three, a commander, a police commander declares a defact toe moratorium. let's look at what that looks lik like. >> i hear the wmd is the bomb.

>> wmd by chair by chair. >> wmd. >> give me, two, yo. >> wmd right here, right here. right here. >> so david carr, why do you think if we have had actual amsterdams, what would america look like or do we have them already? >> drug addiction is a serious matter and not easy to fix and people say treatment doesn't work and in fact, it doesn't. i went to treatment four times and went back and used and magic number five i sobered up and

been paying taxes ever since, going to school bored members, sitting in church like a normal human being. the money that got sunk into me back in the day has been paid back. you can argue the work that i do but better than what i used to be up to. i do think for people to say that i'm -- that incarceration is any kind of fix, that it does anything other than manufacture rage and market of feeling of hopelessness among a huge class -- it's interesting who gets locked up. you and i had fairly good careers doing what we did. i mean, i went to jail, but i never went to prisonen. >> yeah. >> i don't think it's a coincidence that i'm a white person. >> right. >> this drug war has gone on as long as it has because it

targeted people of color. >> if they were locking up white folk as much as colored people, it would end along time ago. the sentencing guidelines and the fact that meth, you're seeing white folk getting locked up. but what i am concerned about and was concerned about if they could somehow take that portion of the drug war that is racial utilized and deals with white, middle class kids, not that they are the only ones smoking weed, but if they could get that part out of the equation, they might go on with this policy for another 40 years chewing out people of cocolor. >> they will. >> that's what i'm worried about. >> you will. >> you let those people off the hook and like the draft. they got rid of the draft and now we can fight wars of choice wherever we want to. you get marijuana out of the drug war and they will brutize the inner cities for another two or three generations.

i'm down on the idea not treating this wholistically and saying what are we doing with drug prohibition. >> bummer. i don't see anyone running for office in the united states any time soon standing up and saying i'm for the decriminalization of heroin or cocaine. nobody will ever do it. >> i do agree there is no political percentage in talking about legalization but the idea of decriminalization and the idea -- let me tell you something. i'm from baltimore. we got a little bit of a crime problem in my city. when they started locking up people for drugs at a higher rate, the other crimes went down for murder, robbery. we taught a whole generation of police not to do police work. they go in your pockets and get dope. they couldn't do police work. that's what we've created. we've actually harmed our ability to police ourselves by wasting our time on this. that's the great tragedy is if

you could somehow focus the idea if we won't pay -- we'll use the resources for something better, you might have a shot. >> when we come back, we'll turn the to the nsa's high jinx and i want to know if you have a problem with the government looking over our shoulders. six tons, whole sale value, this is over 300 or 600 million. >> so these are all kilo blocks? >> yeah, one kilo, one life. you can imagine how many lives are here. 15 years ago this is what i would ask santa claus to bring me for christmas. ♪ [ male announcer ] you wait all year for summer.

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i'm anthony in for piers. i'm talking to david carr and david simon of "the wire." we have prism that vacuums up apparently all data and allows access to online activity, basically your call, hoovers up your call records, presumably as well as hitting keywords. do you have a problem with this? >> well, whenever i feel somebody's hands up my skirt i'm always sort of interested in what exactly they are trying to find up there. people say well, if you have nothing to hide, why would it bother you? it doesn't feel good to have people's hands up your skirt unless you invite them, and i do think your government -- if you take the obama administration that came in with the promise of

being the most transparent administration in history, prosecuted six, now seven times on the act, they are fond of being secretive about their secrets, and i really think it's time -- i'm sad the house almost got there but not quite, to shine some light in there and just let us at least know what you're up to. you say all you're looking at is meta data. what does meta data mean to you? >> how much does it mean to you, david simon? you expressed some less outrage or less -- >> i think i'm being precise about what i'm concerned about and not. you just confladed prism with phone meta data and they are different programs subject to different laws and ultimately, phone meta data was not part of prism. prism was part of the internet and capturing that targeted overseas allegedly.

you know, they aren't looking -- they aren't authorized to look. what they are actually doing, if you actually have a moment it's being misused, that's another ball of wax but right now when you talk about phone meta data, what you're saying to me effectively is all of a sudden after 30, 40 years of this stuff being legal for law enforcement, whether you agree with it or not, suddenly, it is -- we're going to apply a different standard of the fourth amendment. i can't get my back up about that. you can't show me a single american that has been denied his fourth amendment right because the nsa gathered the stuff in a pile on the floor, and running through it. >> but i mean, i think it's fair to say one would think you take a pretty dim view in general of the ability of policy makers to restrain themselves. i mean, can we trust these courts and our officials to not -- >> no. >> -- misuse this information or

just access? >> my concern is court and how little supervision it is and it's not an add ver sar yell court. there is no situation, there is no federal public defender arguing the other side. the court i got a lot of problems with but the idea government should not have -- you know, i guess what i'm saying is technology is technology, and you can't argue that it's not going to be here or that it doesn't have meaningful uses for law enforcement or counter terror. what you can say is that if it's misused, at that point, you have the opportunity for real reform and it's at that point and the whole notion is this notion that you're going to go from united states of america to a surveillance state at the first misuse. our history is replete with locking up citizens in detention camps at points, or the excess s

of hoover mccarthy. >> ever movie we've seen on television assumes as a basic prep miswe're doing these things already. i don't know, let's say you were an elected official or candidate with a secret life with an online weenie wagger or -- >> that's out rage gas. >> they have that anyway. they have that anyway. >> who knows more about you, the nsa or amazon? >> tony if they want -- exactly. but if they want tony bourdane or any member of the political opposition, a regular run of the mill fbi agents gets your phone meta data. they don't need the big pile in utah and wouldn't risk it for that. there is no reason to risk it

for that. they can have it any time they want. it's legal under the constitution and has been for 30 years. >> edward snowden, good guy or bad guy or edging towards good guy or edging towards bad guy in your estimation. >> i wish -- i would go with someone not that long ago and i was making a big, long, civil liberties, anti national security speech and he just looked at me and said who is he to decide? how is he the one that's going to decide what should be known and what should not be known? my concern is over and over is not that we have a government -- i'm not one of these people that think there is black whisper helicopters outside my house gathering everything, but i don't have the visibility or confidence that david has that we're not building a huge turnkey national security apparatus so that maybe not this guy, but when some bad guy or

woman shows up in that office, that all they got to do is click it a little to the right and all of a sudden they own me. they own me. >> so take a totally quick non-scientific poll here, does anybody feel sympathetic to edward snowden? cheer? clap? [ applause ] >> don't like him at all, enemy of our country, and helping terrorism, don't like him. cheers? claps? wow. >> people feel bad he's been in the airport for a month. we've all been there. >> come on. >> you're telling me. >> that is the -- >> here is the real question. if you had to spend the rest of your life in russia or venezu a venezuela, where would you pick? >> i've not been to either place. you're the man. >> venezuela, you'll eat a lot

better. you don't want to spend the rest of your life in russia eating. >> crime and punishment. i think mr. snowden in some sense is his own version of patriot and he was motivateed to do the things that he did. by good -- but if you saw, once he did what he did, he aligned himself. i mean, if you want to stay at large and do what you do, you probably shouldn't call a guy locked in the ecuador embassy and say what's my next move -- >> i think he butchered it. snowden did good things and we're talking about it. >> i'm glad i know this stuff. >> i'm glad it's a public discussion. i think where he butchered it is i think he had one moral place to stand, which was are they spying on americans? if that's you're concern they are violating the fourth amendment of fellow citizens, it's an unlawful order you've

been given. if you're a soldier in combat, it's the only reason -- if you believe that or believe you're being asked to do something unconstitutional stand on that in your own country and argue by revealing this you were not following a lawful order. when he got into the business of going over seas and talking about our capabilities for spying overseas, well, you know, that's kind of what the cia is there for in peacetime and war, if you have intelligence agency, they are supposed to put on the president's desk the best possible information for what is going on in the world. >> as always, you surprise me. david carr, david simon, thank you. coming up, chefs gone wild, my pals mario and eric. >> we have a chilly pepper made

with ants. >> made with ants. >> totally. you're not loving that, are you? >> no. [ laughter ] [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪

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all right. what do you think? >> oh my god. >> that's delicious. >> it's good, right? >> hold on. >> hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it everybody. it's going back. it's supposed to be in your belly. >> i could watch that all day.

i'm anthony bourdain guest hosting for piers. that is reeking havoc on the chew. he's an author and one of my favorite chefs and here with another one of my favorites eric laparre. chefs celebritiecelebrities, is good thing? we've seen one tv chefs career vaporize overnight to what started as accusations of maintaining what i think could be charitably call add hostile work environment. yet, here is the biggest, most successful celebrity chef going, someone you may know by the name of gordon ramsey. >> you want to go a little bit [ bleep ]. in front of you-all taking place naturally. oh, [ bleep ] me.

[ bleep ] me. [ bleep ] me. [ bleep ] me. every table i'm [ bleep ] getting screwed. >> is that appropriate workplace behavior? i ask you. i mean, look, should chefs be role models, or should they just make good food? >> mario, what do you think? >> it depends. i would say there are ways on creating a workplace where you get better results, and there are two ways to look at it. one is beat them with a stick until their behavior improves, and the other one is to coddle them along and hopefully course them into the good way by being nice to them. in the old days when cooks were pretty much just this side of slaves, there was a lot of beating going on in the traditional old kind of way. >> the french -- >> the french started that. >> his fault. >> it's a lot smarter group of

people working in a kitchen, and they won't take that kind of a beating and it becomes counter productive. >> don't you miss the old days? you're a product of that system. i mean, you yourself were a verdict of that -- >> marco -- >> rosotto at my chest. >> i heard he poured it down your pants. >> that was later, much later. >> deeply traumatizing experience and you certainly were a product of that system, and in fact, you yourself at some point in your career early on as a chef, you were a miserable son of a bitch yourself, weren't you? >> yes, i was. look, i learned the hard way because the smart guys of the team left me and i lost most of the talent. i learn you have to beat the team and to have to beat the team you have to show respect to your staff, take care of them, number tour them and the guy was shaking and scared and cannot

cook better than the one insp r inspired to cook for someone, right? >> uh-huh. >> yes, i believe we have to be role models because the right thing to do and better for the team. they cook better. >> so it's all like a hippie commune, peace and love. >> love and kiss -- >> you can't not discipline, too. if you don't have a strong discipline, some of the staff sometimes become abusive and some of the staff just shut down. so the role of the chef is to keep the discipline in the kitchen, and that way you can go on. >> what about saving the planet and others like that? as a chef, are you in the pleasure business principlely, should you care about cruelty to animals? in the pleasure business shouldn't you care first about presenting the most delicious

tomato at a reasonable price point or care whether that tomato might possible cause tumors in lab rats? does it matter? >> i don't think you want to serve cancerous food to your customers, if you know what that is. i would say if you're really thinking about the good of the planet. there is two ways to look at it for me. on one hand i think it would be smart of me to drive the biggest, most gas guzzling car i can because i'll help us get rid of our addiction to oil because i'll get rid of it. i'm not sure if we take it all the way it would be good. in the food world it would make more sense if we responsible use the products we use so they are sustainable. >> i know you think about this all the time and serve these sustainable fish. >> for sure, i mean, if you know one species is becoming depletd or endangered, obviously, you don't want to serve it because you have a responsibility. not only as a chef, as a human

being living on this planet. you want to make sure you're responsible and inspire people to do the same, therefore, our children and grandchildren, will be able to eat species that are today, sometimes, on the verge of disappearance. >> what if there is only one blue fin tuna left on earth andist really beautiful and already dead. they hauled it in front of you -- >> i'm certainly not serving it. i'm eating it. >> me, too. >> guys, such bad boys. >> it's the last one and there it is. you're certainly not going to put it in a museum. >> bartenders that serve alcohol to alcoholics. what if frank boonie, you know he has gout and asks for a double order, you say, sorry, man, i can't do that to you, dude. cease and assist. are you in that business, too, you have to look after -- >> i don't think that's the

responsibility -- >> if they want to kill themselves with food, it's okay with you? >> yeah, but not alcohol. >> we don't serve alcohol to someone who is drunk at restaurant. if you want more portions of chocolate cake, it's your problem. >> you wouldn't cut them off? >> of course not. >> isn't this military readiness issue, the one area me and ted nugent agree on. we' guy on everything any reasonable person would. how will rerace a giraffe or smoke terrorists out of holes if we can't fit. >> if we were all skinny, we weren't doing a good job. there won't be hand to hand combat too far in our future. >> so i should have another piece of cake? >> have another piece of cake. you could have six or seven more pieces of cake, dude. you're looking good.

>> speaking of feeding alcohol to alcoholics, when we come back, we will share one of my favorite cocktails. the food, i'm enjoying these cocktails, too. >> are we going to be wasted? >> that will be fine. (girl) what does that say? (guy) dive shop. (girl) diving lessons. (guy) we should totally do that. (girl ) yeah, right. (guy) i wannna catch a falcon! (girl) we should do that. (guy) i caught a falcon. (guy) you could eat a bug. let's do that. (guy) you know you're eating a bug. (girl) because of the legs. (guy vo) we got a subaru to take us new places. (girl) yeah, it's a hot spring. (guy) we should do that. (guy vo) it did. (man) how's that feel? (guy) fine. (girl) we shouldn't have done that. (guy) no. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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let's face it, we're friends and all but you never would have hired me for a prep job. if i hired at your restaurant saying can i get a job -- >> you look too old. >> at any point in my life. >> i think you would be able to [ bleep ] me and get -- >> i would have gotten the job but i wouldn't have lasted. >> i'm anthony bourdain guest hosting for piers. two of my favorite chefs. we have a question from the audience from cheerese. >> hi, guys, recently taylor left a 500 tip on an 800 bill so that's 62.5% so what are the rules for tipping? >> it's a 62.5% tip, that's -- >> that's pretty good. >> that's pretty reasonable. >> that's a good rule. >> that's a great rule.

>> but when you go out to dinner, what is it? new york city in particular but across the bored. what is acceptable and good and where do you start to get offensive? >> i think 20% is the standered. i generally tip between 20 and 30%, depending on what or where i'm at. if it's an 18 check and not that out landish to leave 40 on the table. >> i do the same. i leave 20%. easy to calculate. and then if it's breakfast and the bill is very inexpensive, i leave more. >> yeah, it's got to be pretty spectacularly bad service for me to go below 20% and people should know the biggest sin is taking out on the floor staff or a waiter your unhappiness with the kitchen. so that's, don't do that. >> that said, when is the last time you got bad service? >> i don't get bad service anywhere and i'll tell you why. let me tell you why.

[ laughter ] >> because i walk in and i say hi, i'm here to have a good time, and you can help me. and instead of weighing out my bad week or whatever problem i think i can resolve at dinner, i just want to participate in the experience. >> and i'm sure your disappear with the other guys in shorts and clogs. >> very nicely. [ applause ] >> i promised a festive summer cocktail for you guys and this is something that's spread most like an evil virus from you to me to eric. you taught me about this drink, the nagroni. >> you started drinking them. >> yeah. >> they are good. what is in this? >> 1/3rd gin and a lot of rumors about who or what invented it.

on the set of ocean and delu had a mixed drink with no mixer. >> i heard it was the american was not strong enough and in any case, here is an important question. it's bitter. there is a sweet element. the first sip you think you don't like it and a few sips later, it's like where are my pants and how did i get here? >> how did we get here anyway? >> three alcohol in one, you know that? >> yes, and it sneaks up on you because they are good before dinner and after. how many is too many? >> personally? three. two you still remember the experience. three, you stop -- >> danger zone. >> holes in the memory. >> would you agree with that? >> i believe that's a little short, to be quite frank. >> speaking of drunken behavior allegedly drunk behavior, one of the burning issues of the day, one of my favorite artists

justin bieber was film recently going through the kitchen of an operating nightclub, a busy kitchen chose to relief himself into a mop bucket in the all kitchen in front of the staff and left a mess for the night cleanup guy, the night dishwasher. surely you don't approve. were you the chef at this establishment and young justin bieber stopped in your kitchen to relief himself to siphon the python into the mop bucket -- >> into the mop bucket. >> how would you respond? >> i would have brutally kicked his butt. >> i would grab him by the ear. >> that's, that's not just being funny and flip. that's actually peeing on somebody's workplace. he needs a wakeup call. i don't think he's an evil kid.

what if your buddies put that on the internet? it was one of his pals that were there. >> 44 million bieber freaks will be like now, believers will be like, bronies but worse will be sending you nasty mail. >> you can't defend that. you can't defend -- >> you can -- >> i'm sure he really had to go. >> he made a mistake and they will cut him a break because he's a famous guy. >> he's drinking and stupid. >> he's not supposed to be drinking. he's not 21. >> no matter how drunk i got -- >> never pee in a bucket? >> no. >> guilty pleasure, 3:00 in the morning and many you had one too many, what dirty, shameful thing do you find yourself craving to eat? >> i feel no guilt about that but a greasy cheese steak cooked on a grill covered in cheese wiz

and onion. >> what about you? >> i don't have a guilty pleasure with food. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. you're drunk, what are you eating? >> i have spicy chorizo. >> you go to the refrigerator -- no cap'n crunch with crunch berries. >> jealous. >> little corn beef cash out of the can. >> that's when you're stoner. >> all right. >> when we come back, speaking of guilty pleasures, you guys tried the cronut? >> yes. >> you've had a cronut? >> yes. >> i'm a cronut version and i'm told and promised tonight is my night. >> it's the last thing you're a virgin of. [ laughter ] >> when we come back, the love child of cronut, cronuts for

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the arrival of an object you desire called the cronut. buy sickly a hybrid, mutation, unholey spawn of the croissant and donut. this man was responsible for the krooeuati uati creation of this tasty bomb and the streets filled up lined up hoping to get one or two of only 300 made each day. humor, when is the enterprise reporter who broke the story and helped kick start cronut mania. what have you done? what have you done? people are paying $150 for one of these. they are promising sexual favors on the internet for a bite, a whiff of cronut. your feelings on this monster you've helped create? >> you know, i think on one hand you can say when grub street talks, america listens, you

know, but i think that dominic ansella is a chef genius and wrote the song and i'm the guy, we're the people that put it on the air for the first time, you know, and the spectacle happens. >> well, i've never had a cronut. i've cronut. i've been watching the rest of the world get off, so let's try one, shall we? >> fantastic. >> the chef is here. and finally, i get to pop my cronut cherry. because plautz [ applause ] cronut. what is a cronut? >> it's something we launched on

the menu, it's a hybrid when a croixsant and a doughnut. it's flaky, very light. it's fried in special oil, filled with cream and glazed. we change the flavor every month and we have been receiving good comments. >> god, it's good. it's really good. why don't you make more of these? you only make 300 a day. you have people banging on the windows, sleeping on the sidewalk. >> you know, we're a small bakery, and we just launched the cronuts about eight to nine weeks ago. so it's still pretty new on the market. we first started, we made 50, then 75, then 100. now we're up to 300 to 350 a day. >> i know your career a little bit. you have a long and

distinguished career making a full variety of pastries and delicious things. it's pretty much going to say creator of the cronut on your headstone. you do make other stuff? >> like, this, the outside is caramelized, the inside is flaky. and there's layers of butter, dough and sugar. >> this is a traditional -- >> traditional from britain. traditionally, they make it in a larger size. this is our best seller. >> that's good. wow, audience, you all have your two pasties, the cronut, and the bka.

only reason i'm doing this show is for the cronuts by the way. had to put on a jacket, makeup, but it was all about the cronut, man. so here we go. it's voting time. if you prefer the cronut, pink card up in the air. and the bka, yellow card. surprisingly strong performance for the bka. that's not a bad place to be, because the cronut benefits from enormous notoriety. there's cronut knockoffs happening across the country. this is an entirely situational thing for me. generally speaking, the bka is exactly what i like in a pastry. early in the evening, this is

what i would be eating. late, after a couple of cocktails, standing there in my dirty shorts and about to watch a "simpsons" episode i've seen 40 times, cronuts, baby. we'll be right back. >> do you know what a cronut is? it's a trendy new snack in new york. it's a combination of a croissant and a doughnut. people are paying rdz 100 for them. they're called midiots.

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that's it for us tonight. i want to thank piers for the chance to sit in and i want to thank my studio audience. i'll be back on cnn in september with a new season of "parts unknown" and here's a preview.

>> i don't think i have a future in this. >> yes, that hurt. tomorrow, matthew perry guest hosts and sits down with an old friend, lisa kudrow. >> i was doing a hollywood reporter interview a couple of weeks ago or like a month ago, it was hey, i hope i get nominated for an emmy interviews. it did not work, but i still had to do the interview. i found myself reminiscing about how much fun the show was, and the hours that we worked, and how much -- you could see how much we laughed and everything. if i had a time machine, i would like to go back to 2004 and not have stopped, you know? >> yeah. >> so just assuming for a second that time machines are around, would you get in a time machine and have stopped? would you want to change that? >> yeah. i mean, if it were up to us, you

know, like individually. then yeah. >> you would have kept going or stopped? >> i would keep going. >> yeah. >> that's matthew perry, guest hosting tomorrow night. and anderson cooper starts right now. good evening. i'm anderson cooper. tonight, a murder that's gone uninvolved for more than half a century. a south texas beauty queen killed after going to confession. suspicion turned to the priest but nothing stuck. police, they never gave up. so now, 52 years later, evidence points only to the man who heard irene garza's final suspicion. cnn's gary tuchman has the remarkable story. >> she had beautiful, shiny hair. she had this natural effervescence.