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tv   The Situation Room  CNN  September 2, 2013 2:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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the resources so that they can obviously be a stronger force against the syrian regime. still you have -- they're seeking that sweet spot as they work with congress on this one. >> thanks very much for that, brianna keilar at the white house. >> tomorrow the senate foreign relations issue takes up the issue of syria.
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dana bash is on capitol hill. dana, the president, it's fair to say especially in the house the president facing an uphill battle. based on what we heard in that call, anyone who said they know will take place should get out of the prediction business. multiple congressional sources say john kerry is the administration's most passionate advocate for military action but kerry knows full well how dicey authorizing war is for lawmakers. >> i did vote for the $87 million before i voted against it. >> reporter: then senator kerry's vote for the iraq war and later its funding
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complicated his 2004 presidential run. he's not the only cautionary tale. >> if left uncollected, saddam hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare. >> reporter: hillary clinton's support for iraq turned out to be her undoing in 2008 against anti-war barack obama. >> a lot of memories over another time when a president came and said or at least the president's people came and said that this was slam dunk intelligence and of course that was not an episode that i think most members would ever want to repeat. >> cnn is told on an administration conference call one house democrat accused them of "historical amnesia," forgetting the lessons of iraq and vietnam. kerry shot back he has a case of attacking syria, quote, beyond a reasonable doubt.
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but there are reasons others are skeptical about authorizing force in syria. >> we know chemical weapons were used in other instances and we did not take military action. i am hoping to find an answer to the question is there another way to hold assad accountable. >> reporter: some don't see the need to defy opposition from their own constituents. >> the mood in the detective that i represent is do not do this. >> reporter: to get enough yeses to pass, this legislation the white house sent congress saturday night is too broad. >> we're go to have to take a look at the wording to make sure it is limited in scope. >> reporter: democratic sources say plans are under way to make changes, limit time for military strikes and make crystal clear no boots on the ground. i'm told that on this conference call today that the democratic leader in the house, nancy pelosi, made a pretty strong case for military action.
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still i'm also told by democratic sources not to expect actual overt arm twisting, no whipping as they call it here. but i'm also warned and told that they are going to be tallying up what the votes are going to be on the democratic side at least in order to help the white house so they know where things stand going into these critical votes next week. >> they'll do some serious head counting as far as the voting is concerned. the senate foreign relations takes up the issue tomorrow, john kerry, chuck hagel will testify, martin dempsey, chairman of the joint chiefs will testify as well. when the house comes back on monday, will they then begin with congressional hearings, holding similar testimony inquiries or will they go right to debate on the house floor? >> there's actually going to be another public hearing this coming week, we learned today, and it is going to be on the house side, the counterpart to that committee, the house foreign affairs committee.
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they will do that this week before they formally come in. but we don't actually have the parameters of when they're going to start floor debate in the house and when they'll have that vote. they're going to wait for the end of the week before they put that on the schedule. >> they'll see what happens tomorrow with the meetings between the speaker and the house and everybody else. >> to the syrians. bashar al assad is speaking out defiantly, issuing a small warning as western nations weigh their response. he tells the french newspaper "i have never said whether or not the syrian army possesses or not such weapons. let's suppose our army wanted to use weapons of mass destruction. is it possible that it would do that in an area where it itself is located and soldiers have been injured by those weapons"? he goes on to ask "where is the logic?" and he adds "the middle east is
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a fire keg and the powder is approaching today." then he warns about the reaction saying "everyone will lose control of the situation when the powder keg explodes, chaos extremism will spread. the risk of a regional war exists." coming up, my interview live with a rebel general. plus, the putin factor. russia's president strongly opposed to any u.s. strike on its ally. now he and president obama are getting ready to come face to face. this is a "situation room" special report "crisis in syria." nascar is about excitement.
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just days from now president obama will come face to face with one of his fiercest opponents in the push to take military action against syria. we're talking about the russian president, vladimir putin. the president's trip to russia comes as the president is rejecting claims of use of chemical weapons and tensions have reached a severe pitch right now. they'll be in st. petersburg, russia, toward the end of this week for the g20 summit. even if they don't have any formal meetings, they'll be spending a little time to the at least formally and that's going to be awkward. >> reporter: there's going to be a handshake, they'll be in the same room. it was an encounter that was
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always going to be awkward because president obama and putin agree on so little. president obama called off a one-on-one summit that was supposed to take place in the days before the summit. today russian's foreign minister said the government had seen information, intelligence supplied by the united states and its allies and remained absolutely unconvinced the syrian government was responsible for using chemical weapons against its own people. so russia is still sticking to its theory which suggests the rebels were more responsible for that use of chemical weapons. >> will they bring with them intelligence to back up their claim what it was the rebels,
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the rebels were responsible for using chemical weapons against their own supporters? >> reporter: at this stage we don't know precisely what the make-up of this delegation will be, who will be going, how many, when they're going to arrive or just how they hope to persuade members of the u.s. congress to take on their way of thinking. but presumably they will be armed with whatever the russian government can give them to ensure that what russia would really like to see is a result as we saw in the british parliament where u.s. congress rejects the possibility of any sort of international military intervention in this conflict, wolf. >> we'll see what kind of evidence the russians have, if they have any evidence to back up their assertions. phil black in moscow for us, thanks very much. when we come back, what does the opposition in syria think about president obama's latest case for military action? a general for the free syrian army is standing by live. he's in syria right now. he just got off the phone, by
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the way, with the secretary of state john kerry. plus, the decision to strike now in the hands of the united states congress. will the president ultimately have the votes he needs to act? we'll debate it with two key lawmakers just ahead. our situation room special report "crisis in syria" continues after this. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business. one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unlimited talk and text on smart phones. now, everyone's in the spirit of sharing. hey, can i borrow your boat this weekend? no. [ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business.
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getting right back to our special report "crisis in syria." let's take a quick look into other stories coming into "the situation room" right now.
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diana nyad completed an historic swim from cuba to florida today, becoming the first person ever to do it without a shark cage. scores of people expressed support for her on the beach and online including president obama who tweeted "congratulations diana nyad, never give up on your dreams." >> this video show as d.c. harbor police boat accidentally crashing into two parked boats on the georgetown waterfront. the ireporter said everyone was shocked. the one sank and had to be towed away. fortunately nobody was on board. no injuries were reported. >> and ruth bader ginsburg is the first justice to officiate a same-sex wedding.
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it was a prime ceremony over the weekend. coming up, a republican lawmaker who supports a strike on syria and a democratic lawmaker who is not convinced. they'll debate what the u.s. should do about the alleged chemical weapons attack. this is the situation room special report "crisis in syria." thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.
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over 100,000 people killed in the past two and a half years, a civil war raging in syria. the toll climbing every single day. the syrian opposition reports 63 more people died today but it's the dramatic toll from that alleged chemical weapons attack by the regime. more than 1,400 people according to the united states government that has the u.s. considering military retaliation. rebel forces closely watching all of the developments unfold in washington. general idris joins us via skype. thank you very much for taking time to speak to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i know you spoke to the secretary of state, john kerry, he called you. what did he say to you? did he reassure you that the u.s. would strike even if
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congress rejected a resolution? >> wolf, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak to our american friends. secretary kerry called me today and told me that it is a process in the united states and we understand that in all democratic countries make it important to go to the conference. and we in the free syrian president -- after the use of chemical weapons against unarmed civilians. more than 500 children and we support president obama decision to go to the congress to get
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authorization to carry out strikes against the syrian regime and we understand really the decision making in the democratic country and realize that support for the decision will make it stronger and more effective and we hope it will encourage other friendly countries to participate in the international campaign against the regime. >> are you worried, general idris, that during this period it could be a week, two weeks, who knows, before congress makes a decision that the syrian regime of president bashar al assad might use chemical weapons against your supporters another time? or do you think he's learned a lesson? >> really in damascus can use
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chemical weapons again in damascus and we know that the process of making the decision may take a few days or weeks. but now we are currently fighting the criminal regime which killed our people and destroy our country for more than two and a half years and the regime has committed countless crimes against humanity and the latest of which was the use of chemical weapons against people in damascus and we think if there is no strike the regime is going to use chemical weapons and to kill i'm afraid to say in the coming days, not coming weeks, to kill more than 20,000 or 50,000 people, of our people, and we are afraid of coming to a day to see more than 20,000 and that's
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why we are waiting for our friends in the congress to support the president decision to do the strikes against this regime. >> as you know, general idris, the u.s., president obama, has refused to provide your free syrian army with lethal weapons fearing some of them could wind up in the hands of al qaeda supporters within the operation, the so-called al nusra front and others. what kind of assurances would you give the president and the secretary of state for that matter if the u.s. were to supply you directly with weapons, that they wouldn't wind up in the hands of al qaeda. >> yes. i would like to say to all of our american friends that the fighters in the free syrian army are civilians who left their jobs and joined the revolution and took up arms to stand
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against injustice against their families and their countries and many of the fighters in our free syrian are defectors from the army and joined the revolution. our forces are now fighting against the regime. [ inaudible ]. many of these islamic groups are wondering if some of them [ inaudible ]. the most dangerous group of them are in iraq. we don't cooperate with this group and we don't share any kind of information or any kind
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of support with them. and i can give our friends in the united states and in the western countries any kind of guarantee that they need that weapons and ammunitions that we receive from our friends if we are coming to receive such will go to the right hand, to the hands of my fighters who are fighting to build a free and democratic syria for all, for muslims, for christians and all components a syrian society. and to put a quick end to the suffering which people are now for more than two and a half years they are suffering because of the crimes of the regime.
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>> general salim idris, i know you're busy. we'll check back with you tomorrow and throughout this week to get your firsthand account of what's going on, joining us via skype from northern syria. just ahead, our special report crisis in syria will continue as the president makes the case for military action, the decision now remains in the hands of the united states congress. does he have the votes he needs? i'll speak with two key lawmakers. plus strong words from the pope. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing.
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>> it's a high-stakes washington debate. unlike most others, this one does not fall cleanly long party lines. the president is asking congress to approve military strikes on syria for its alleged use of chemical weapons to slaughter, according to the ballpark administration, more than 1,400 of its on citizens. the white house is now intensely lobbying members but it's far from clear whether they'll give him the green light, especially when it comes to the house of representatives. let's speak with two representatives now. to both of you, thanks very much for joining us. a quick question to both of you. congressman grimm, you first, if the vote were today, would you authorize the president to use force in syria? >> yes, i would, but i would
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want the president's strike to be a meaningful strike. it has to be one that sends a very strong message to the on to assad but also to iran and their terror proxies, including hezbollah. it cannot be a shot across the bough. it should topple the regime is what it should do. >> topple the regime, that's a big challenge. >> congressman, you're a democrat from rhode island. would you support the president? would you vote yay if the resolution were before you today? >> i'm pleased that the vote is not before us today. the president has begun consultation with congress. i was in washington yesterday for for a classified briefing for a little over three hours, looked for documents for a little over three hours. i think there remain a lot of questions for me. i want to be convinced this is in the best national security interest of the united states. i think we should proceed cautiously. we have a hearing on wednesday before the foreign affairs committee. secretary kerry will testify. i have a lot of questions.
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i think the case needs to be made to the congress of the united states and to the american people that this is in the best interests of the united states and in our national security interests. >> well, just to be precise, congressman, if the vote were right now based on the classified information you learned yesterday, you would still vote no, you wouldn't authorize the use of force? if the vote were right now. you could change your mind over the next week or two weeks or whatever, but right now you're not yet convinced? >> that's right. i'm convinced assad was responsible for the attack but we have to determine what's the appropriate course of action to protect the national security of the united states and i think there remains a case to be made as to what will happen after a military attack and who will be part of it. i will not support military action today but i will listen carefully and participate to learn as much as i can to make a judgment in this case.
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>> you've heard, congressman grimm, administration officials say repeatedly this is not about regime change, this is about punishing bashar al assad for using chemical weapons but it's not designed to remove him and they would be very limited, these military strikes. you say that's not good enough. >> i don't think that's good enough and fortunately for us the president put himself in this position where now he really to some extent needs the congress. he himself has said it will be a stronger situation for the united states, it will be a stronger strike if we come together. so he kind of committed himself now. that being said, i think there's two major reasons why we have to strike. number one, the president of the united states already committed us. the president of the united states committed us when he drew the red line. so the idea that we should or we shouldn't strike, i think that ship sailed a long time ago if we want to keep the credibility of the united states. and again, you have to remember. this is extremely important to the syrian people but it also
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matters what iran thinks, what north korea thinks and our enemies and allies think alike. >> go ahead and respond to that, congressman. >> i think it is very important. everyone who has watched these videos understands this is a horrific use of chemical weapons and there has to be a price paid. we have to understand all of the evidence in the case, the strategic objectives, have we built an international coalition flp's been a lot of talk about this international norm, which clearly exists. but we need to build an international coalition. it ought not fall on the united states alone to enforce this. we're a country that faces tremendous challenges at home, record unemployment, a crumbling infrastructure. you've got to remember this is being raised in the context of urgent domestic priorities. i think we should proceed very cautiously, do a thorough review of all the implications in the region, what will happen after an attack, who will participate.
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i think we have a lot of questions to ask to do our due diligence -- >> i have a great respect for my colleague and my friend, but the president should have thought of those things, all of those things are all valid points but the president drew that red line. now we have would two issues, his credibility, the credibility of the entire united states is on the line. number two, we cannot allow a precedent for anything like the assad regime to use chemical weapons and not have an extremely strong response from the united states. extremely strong response. it's our credibility but it also our future for decades of how we will be perceived by the rest of the world not only from our enemies but also our allies. again, everything that the congressman just said is very valid. i have all of the same concerns. but unfortunately the president of the united states has already spoke. so once you've committed your
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nation, it hard to backtrackthat without losing complete and utter credibility in all parts of the world from our allies and enemies. >> a lot of your colleagues say that the iranians, for example, in the u.s. were not to retaliate, to respond to the use of chemical weapons, they would get the message, go ahead, build a bomb, threaten israel, do whatever you want because the united states is not going to deliver. that's the fear you hear from congressman grimm, john mccain, lindsey graham and others. >> i think there's no question that that is one of the things we have to consider in making this decision. i think it's very important and i think the president was right to come to the congress of the united states to make his case. this is a case that the american people have to support and understand, to listen carefully to the arguments. this is a complicated question and we have to understand all of the implications of military action, what it will mean for the region if we act, if we act
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alone, what it will mean if we fail to act. congressman grimm raises very real concerns. this is not an easy question but i think it's very important for to us proceed deliberately, thoughtfully, carefully, listen to all the evidence and all of the arguments and build consensus in the congress and within this country before we proceed. >> if i could add one thing, i think the president was right to come to the congress but i think he did it backwards. the congress now finds itself in a position where the president has spoke, we don't want to leave the president out there on a limb without the support of the congress, he's already spoke and committed the ubs. we feel almost lbl gated, number one, to support our president. we have secretary kerry going on there and saying the united states cannot possibly turn its back on the syrian people again, we're put in a position where it's almost an untenable position for congress. the president should have come to congress first, it should
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have been quick, we should have had a special session called immediately and this strike should have bund way already in my opini -- have been under way already in my opinion. >> we should definitely have been back. i've been calling on the speaker to call us back for a long time, not only to address this issue but the many, many issues facing our country. we've been in recess for over a month. we should have been back a long time ago. >> a week from today the house of representatives does come back. what an extraordinary situation. you have a republican saying he'll vote with the president, you have a democrat saying at the moment he won't but he might be amenable to changes his mind in the next week or two. >> up next, what a u.s. strike on syria can and cannot accomplish. we're going to talk to retired
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general george jelwan. this is a "situation room" special report "crisis in syria." if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is.
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our military has positioned assets in the region. the chairman of the joint chiefs has informed me that we are prepared to strike whenever we choose. moreover, chairman has indicated to me that our capacity to execute this mission is not time-sensitive. it will be effective tomorrow or next week or one month from now. >> the president of the united
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states speaking on saturday, insisting the united states is beefing up its military presence in the region. at the same time, positioning several naval ships in the red sea. let's discuss what's going on with the former nato supreme ally commander, retired u.s. army general. is that basically accurate, telling the syrian military, you know what? we're going to be able to do this a week from now, a month from now. doesn't make any difference. you're going to be surprised whenever we do it? this looks like a pretty highly advertised military strike. >> if you're going to lob some tomahawk missiles, certainly you can do that on very short notice. telegraphing that, they can hide some things, i guess. but it's a very -- from what i'm getting from the president, a very limited sort of strike that we're planning. >> how worried should u.s. military planners be that the syrian government of president bashar al assad might bring
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civilians almost as human shields or hostages to some of their most sensitive areas, that if the u.s. were to launch tomahawk cruise missiles, kill some of those people, it would be seen as civilian casualties caused by the u.s.? >> there's always a probability of that. you have to remember, during the bosnian campaign, we fired tomahawk missiles at serbian air defense units. very surgically with very limited casualties on their side of civilians. so it can be done. i would be more concerned about the clarity of the mission and what it is we're trying to achieve. >> well, if you were the commanding general instructed by the president of the united states to go out there and do what you need to do, do you want a specific end game? what is the objective? what are the clear limits? you need that kind of precision, right? >> you need that clarity and the
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challenge here, i think, if i can elaborate, is not just military lever that you pull, but we have diplomatic, political, economic. those are true powers of the united states. i don't sense any of those being called into action here. we need a comprehensive strategy for what we're about ready to do. >> what does it say to you, you're a former nato supreme ally commander. the nato secretary-general today, he issued a statement saying there isn't going or the a formal vote of nato. they don't foresee -- he says he doesn't foresee any further nato role. what does it say that the nato allies aren't even united on this? >> well, we have to make them united. the united states is the leader of nato. without that leadership, nato doesn't work well. look, they have rules against the use of weapons of mass destruction. nato does.
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it's a very serious issue to the alliance. and they need to be called into account on what they already have on the books. so i think with proper leadership and galvanizing nato, i think that could be a very clear signal to the syrians that we're serious about this. san francisco is already making those noises. turkey is on the border. and other mideast countries are threatened here. so nato needs to step up to the plate and the u.s. has to take the lead. leadership is what is required here. >> well, we know one key nato ally britain is not going to get involved millitarily. we'll have you back later. thanks very much. just ahead at the top of the hour, cnn has correspondents positioned all across the region. we're going live throughout the region at the top of the hour.
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experience life well lit. ask which transitions adaptive lens is best for you. we'll get back to our special coverage of the syria crisis in just a minute. there's another story we're monitoring right now.
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it involves politics here in the united states. the political battle specifically over same-sex marriage that has former vice president dick cheney's openly gay daughter mary calling out her sister republican senator candidate liz cheney and charging she is "dead wrong" on this issue. cnn's athena jones is working the story for us. what's going on, athena? >> reporter: it's rare you see a fight within a political family become so public. >> president obama has launched a war on our second amendment rights. >> reporter: liz cheney is known as a vocal critic of president obama. >> he's launched a war on our religious freedom. he's used the irs to launch a war on our freedom of speech. >> reporter: dick cheney's eldest daughter rocked the vote this summer by launching a primary challenge against wyoming's senior senator and now she's getting into a war of words with her own sister, who is openly lesbian. >> i am strongly pro-life and i am not pro-gay marriage.
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over the weekend, mary cheney reportedly fired back on facebook. for the record, i love my sister, but she is dead-wrong on the issue of marriage. freedom means freedom for everyone, wrote cheney, who married her longtime partner last year. the pair have two children together. liz cheney's statement was in response to what her advisers call a deceptive poll asking wyoming voters if they were aware cheney supports abortion and promotes gay marriage. the campaign that the senator is challenging denied it was behind the poll. the daughter versus daughter episode put their father back in the spotlight. he was at times reluctant to talk about same-sex marriage when he was vice president, pushing back against the question from wolf blitzer in this 2007 interview with cnn. >> i'm delighted, i'm about to have a sixth grandchild. i obviously think the world of both of my daughters and all of
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my grandchildren. and i think frankly you're out of line with that question. >> reporter: he now publicly supports same-sex marriage. >> i think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish. any kind of arrangement they wish. >> reporter: although he agrees with liz cheney that the issue should be left to the states. >> the question of whether or not there ought to be a federal statute that governs this, i don't support. >> reporter: same-sex marriage is still a tricky issue. only a minority of republicans support it. wolf? >> thanks very much. happening now, a "situation room" special report, crisis in syria. syria's president warns the region will explode if the united states attacks his country. he's demanding proof of claims
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he has used poisonous gas against his people. will a surprise strategy pay off, or will it backfire? and the u.s. right now stepping up its military presence in the middle east. critics fear the president's delay in acting against syria is dangerous. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer, and you're in "the situation room." right now, president obama is laying ground work for one of his biggest gambles in office, a congressional vote on military action against syria. he's been holding talks with lawmakers today and reaching out to international allies. he there's no doubt the syrian regime crossed a red line and used chemical weapons against civilians, but he surprised the world this weekend by saying he wants congressional approval for an attack, delaying any action for at least a week, probably a whole lot longer than that. we have cnn correspondents in
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countries neighboring syria. arwa damon is in lebanon. jim clancy is in israel. david mackenzie is in china, happens to be a powerful player in this crisis as well. first to arwa. we heard from assad today. update our viewers. what was his bottom line? >> yeah. seeming to be very defiant, as always. now, this was an interview given to the french newspaper. a few interesting quotes we want to share with our viewers. he was specifically asked about this alleged chemical weapons attack. he said, "i have never said whether or not the syrian army possesses or does not possess such weapons. let's suppose our army wanted to use weapons of mass destruction. is it possible that would do that in an area where it itself is located and where soldiers have been injured by these weapons as the inspectors from the united nations have seen in their visit to the hospital
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where they are? where is the logic." additionally, he was also asked about his potential response or reaction to the possibility of a military strike by the u.s. and its allies. to that, he says "the middle east is a powder-keg and the fire is approaching today. one must not speak only of the syrian response, but rather what could be produced after the first strike, because nobody can know what will happen. everyone will lose control of the situation when the powder-keg exploegdexplodes. the risk of a regional war exists." a bit of a threatening undertone to all of this as well. a lot of the focus has been on whether or not there was a chemical attack, and a lot of talk about what the u.s. is going to do. will there be a strike, will there not be a strike. while all those debates are going on, it is very important to remind people that the death
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toll in syria continues to mount. we're talking about a total of over 100,000 people dead, wolf, just tod -- just today, over 60 people were killed. that's why there is such urgency when it comes to somehow deal with this situation, buzz there are innocent lives being lost every single day. >> the slaughter clearly continuing. arwa damon in lebanon. let's go to jordan. nick robertson is standing by. hundreds of thousands of refugees have come into jordan, and the kingdom there is shaky, shall we say at best. >> reporter: it is. you have one refugee camp close to the border here. there are about 140,000 refugees there. it is now fourth largest city in jordan, another refugee camp built in the desert. right now empty, but it is ready for what is expected to be more refugees coming from syria. the concern in jordan is the king not as popular here as he
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used to be. allegations of corruption in the government, the muslim brotherhood pushing for change here. discontent in the south of jordan as well. play into this the concern that strikes in syria might result in retaliatory fire to jordan, because jordan is, in fact, helping saudi arabia funnel weapons into syria, helping to train rebels, provide bases for u.s. troops to help supply them with better weapons to fight inside syria. so all of that is a concern for jordan right now. jordan, though, however, behind the scenes hoping saudi arabia of the arab league get that strong resolution that they hope can help president obama at this time from the arab league and as well at the same time hope that the united states will go ahead with those strikes. that's the diplomatic word i'm hearing behind the scenes here, wolf. >> nick robertson in jordan where they're obviously and
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totally understandably very nervous. the same happening in israel right now. jim clancy is joining us from jerusalem. i know they've been mobilizing some reserves. what's the latest among the israelis? >> reporter: israelis are not only disappointed that president barack obama backtracked and delayed action against syria. they are worried what conclusions are going to be drawn in the rest of the region in damascus, in teheran. in a country that has been stocking up on gas masks and keeping its military on alert, many were actually startled by president obama suddenly pressing the pause button. ordinary people concluded that it was an awkward time to rethink the fundamentals. they worried about a lsz of confiden -- loss of confidence. loss of credibility. government officials were very quick to point out that all of this going to congress is part
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of u.s. democracy. government ministers, though, behind the scenes have been really warned to stay silent, stay on the sidelines as this vote goes ahead. people here will really brace for something else. nearly half of all israelis think that they are a likely target for reprisal for syria or one of its allies. while israel's own stockpile of nuclear weapons is never, ever mentioned here. very much in public view. out there for everyone to see was the conclusion of many -- this whole episode is a reminder, they must be ready to stand alone. all of this relates to the u.s., to israel itself. many are beginning to ask what will this strike mean, limited as it might be, for the people of syria. how may it change their position. wolf? >> jim clancy reporting for us. did an excellent piece the other day on syrians brought to
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hospitals in israel for treatment, a highly unusual extraordinary moment to countries technically still very much at war. let's go to china right now. david mackenzie is watching. china a permanent member of the united nations security council. can we just assume that on this issue, china is totally aligned with russia in opposition to u.s. military action? >> reporter: that's right, wolf. china has a very different view from some other countries that my colleagues are -- they don't want any unilateral action. they made pointed remarks towards the u.s. they're not naming america by name. they said they don't want "any unilateral action." they have grave concern for any military acts. they want the pause button hit permane permanently, i think. they say they want to have the results of the u.n. chemical weapons team to come forward first and then they need discussion. but even if that happens, it's
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very unlikely china will want military action against the assad regime. they wanted talk, not action. and they are the biggest trading partner of syria. they also are hungry for the oil from the region and unlikely they want anything to stop any kind of stability in that region, any wider stability from the situation getting out of control. could have economic impacts with china. china has frequently voted with russia to veto any sanctions against the assad regime, though they aren't as directly as involved, they certainly are on the sidelines, propping up the regime, say some critics. >> thank you very much. two of president obama's toughest critics when it comes to syria, they are not promising at least trying to help him win congressional support. republican senators john mccain and lindsey graham, they met with the president, there you see a picture, they met with the president in the oval office
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today. you see susan rice in that meeting as well. lindsey graham and john mccain often very fierce critics of susan riecsu susan rice. could have been a little bit awkward. they warned there could be dire consequences if the president loses a vote in congress. >> now that a resolution is going to be before the congress of the united states, we want to work to make that resolution something that the majority of the members of both houses can support. a rejection of that, a vote against that resolution by congress i think would be catastrophic, because it would undermine the credibility of the united states of america and the president of the united states. none of us want that. >> let's bring in a leading expert on the middle east right now, the dean of the johns hopkins university. happens to be my alma mater.
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thanks very much for coming in. let's talk about what's at stake right now. was it a mistake from your perspective for the president a year ago to issue that red line? >> well, now in retrospect, it looks that way. at that point in time, essentially it meant that the united states is not going to get involved in syria regardless of what the humanitarian costs or strategic implications were unless assad used chemical weapons. so it was really a marker about what we were not going to do as opposed to the marker of what we were going to do. so assad kept bumping against that red line and has now crossed it, at least according to our own intelligence. and therefore in some ways, the president probably thought that he would never get here, and now he has. >> so what does he do now? what should he do? like all of us, i assume you were surprised on saturday when he said he wants the formal congressional authorization before he strikes. >> yes, i was surprised, and i think many in the region are
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surprised, largely because american power is not only the power of its military, it's also the power of its decision making. i think clarity and decisiveness here are extremely important as a signal both to our allies, we need to have a sense of comfort in where we stand as well as to our adversaries, who are looking to see whether they will get punished if they cross certain red lines. i think all of them looking at this see a president that doesn't want to make a decision. looking for political cover. is passing foreign policy to a situation which in american politics which is riddled with gridlock. it's not as if we've advertised to the world a very coherent and comfortable relationship between the president and congress over the past five years. and that makes them all very uncomfortable, that the united states is not going to make foreign policy decisions very easily, and i think our allies are going to feel dejected and worried and our adversaries think that we are very gun shy and they have a lot of room to maneuver. >> if you listen to mccain and
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lindsey graham today, i'm sure you did, they were making the point that as important as syria is, what's going on in iran right now may be more important. if you're the new president of iran, you're watching this debate unfold here in the united states, you see disarray with the allies even among the arab and muslim world. what do you say? >> hezbollah may say the united states may draw lines very easily, but has a great deal of difficulty acting on them. even if we hit syria, it's going to be very limited. it's going to be paa punishment for this single transgression. we really don't want to get involved in the civil war and decide its outcome, which means they don't have to worry too much. i think often stability in the region has come from a sense of deterrence as to what is the united states going to do if they cross the red line. and i think right now, the feeling is that they have a lot of room to maneuver and the
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united states is doing its best not to have to get into this region, and the president really doesn't want to make a decision. >> vali nasr, thanks for coming in. >> thank you. pope francis is calling for a peaceful resolution to syria's escalating civil war, tweeting this just today. war never again, never again. war. the pope also condemning the use of chemical weapons, has proclaimed september 7th an international day of prayer and fasting devoted to the crisis. coming up on our special report, potential targets in syria. the possibilities of where the u.s. could hit the regime the hardest. the syrian military has extra time to prepare for the worst. if president obama finally gives the order to strike, will it be too late? ♪ ♪ never loved ♪ [ sighs ] ♪
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senator lindsey graham calls president obama's delay of military action in syria pretty bizarre. is the u.s. waiting too long to do any real damage? stand by for more of our "situation room" special report, crisis in syria. the timing, the actions, the reactions. everything has to synch up. my expenses are no different. receipt match from american express synchronizes your business expenses. just shoot your business card receipts and they're automatically matched up with the charges on your online statement. i'm john kaplan and i'm a member of a synchronized world. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.
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while president obama tries to sell congress on u.s. action in syria, his national security team is honing a plan of attack and keeping a very close watch on syrian forces on the ground. the political debate here in the united states is certainly buying some time for the regime. some officials fear the delay could be dangerous. let's bring in our pentagon correspondent chris lawrence. what are you hearing over there? >> hospitals, mosques, schools, those are some of the places where some say assad is now hiding a lot of his assets. the defense officials are telling us that between being able to keep syria under 24-hour surveillance and having the technology to hit specific targets means they can afford to wait until the president is ready. right now, u.s. military officials are refining their targets in syria. looking at the latest intelligence to see what has
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been moved and where. >> it's much harder now than it would have if we'd have acted initially. >> senator john mccain disagrees with some officials who say u.s. intelligence and targeting technologies can overcome anything syrian president bashar al assad tries to hide. >> the chairman has indicated to me that our ka pcapacity to exe this mission is not time sensitive. >> reporter: five army ships in the eastern bay, each armed with about 40 tomahawk missiles. monday, the aircraft carrier moved into the red saw along with its battle group. general martin dempsey assured him strikes would be just as effective a month from now. >> i'm astounded when the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff says it doesn't matter. >> reporter: some former commanders say it most certainly does. >> a scud battery that we could have found in the open on saturday will now be next to a mosque ten days from now.
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>> reporter: retired general michael short commanded the air mission over kosovo. while some targets, like syrian military and police headquarters are static, short says there's now a greater risk you hit the defense ministry with no defense ministers inside. >> you'll have an incredible picture of the building coming down when it's struck by a couple of cruise missiles. but assad's ability has been impacted not at all. >> reporter: pentagon officials say they are confidence because number one, they do not think that assad can hide very important targets. they don't feel he has the large, fortified underground bunkers. you can't park many of those next to an urban school or a mosque. runways are out in the open. and they think that after a couple years of intense fighting, that assad's forces are degraded enough that even limited damage to his communications and assets will
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be felt by the regime. wolf? >> chris lawrence at the pentagon for us, thank you. let's talk a little bit more about the way syria may be preparing right now for a potential u.s. attack. tom foreman is in our virtual studio with colonel rick francona. what are you guys seeing over there? >> we're looking at the varying information chris was talking about a minute ago. the syrians are trying to discount the idea that the u.s. was ever really going to bring warships in here and start firing cruise missiles in at them. and yet, every day that that discussion goes on, it's more time for them to prepare and to get help. one of the areas helping them out right now are the russians, because another russian ship has shown up here, and this one's important. why? >> this is an intelligence collector. it's pretty much state of the art. detached it from the black sea fleet. it's got the complete outfit of censors. it's got ability to monitor radars, communications. it's got its own sonar system.
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it can effectively track the u.s. movements in the eastern mediterranean. >> it would know the moment a missile launched. >> might know before they launched because there's different signatures coming off of those vessels as they prepare to launch. >> what would he do with that information? >> they could have as much as one, two hours warning to the syrians. i'm sure they've set up some sort of network, where as soon as this vessel detects preparation, it goes straight to air defense headquarters in damascus. >> one or two hours warning, because a tomahawk missile flies a little over 500 miles an hour, and these can have a range of a thousand miles. nonetheless, these are pinpoint accurate highly reliable weapons out there carrying a thousand-pound warhead. if you launch 200 of them, as chris signatured suggested a mi who cares if they have two hours of warning. against that kind of mu nnition does it matter? >> it's not just two hours, because we're giving them ten
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days that this is coming. we're already seeing them move their high value assets. the scuds, the chemical weapons facilities. they're moving them into areas that we're not going to hit. they're going to put them near hospitals, schools, civilian residential areas. >> so even if we have an idea what we're aiming for, they're hard to get at. but let me ask you one other part about the intelligence of this. all of this is being based on the idea of intelligence gathering and what we can know about what's going on in there. we know the syrian government doesn't want to tell us anything. but when we talk about the insurgency, we're not talking about one group. we're talking about dozens or hundreds of groups, some of which are in fact connected to terrorists. how reliable would that be? >> this is a problem, if you're going use them as intelligence assets. you have to vet them, because all of them have their own interests at heart. if they're passing a piece of information to you, they may be telling you what you want to hear. they'll say there's a high value asset over here, hoping that
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we're going to hit that. it may be a valid target, or it may be just something they want taken care of. so it's a difficult problem, and i don't envy the intelligence officers having to sift through all of this. >> and it seems like it may be getting more difficult by the hour for the targets to really be chosen in that environment. wolf? >> tom foreman, thanks very much. colonel, thanks to you as well. just ahead, the obama administration kicks into overdrive, making its kay to memb -- case to congress for a possible military strike. will the lawmakers ultimately be convinced? plus, is the president right to take this approach, or is it too much of a political gamble? the co-host of the new "crossfire" program, they will debate that when we come back. sfx: birds chirping
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[ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. sfx: oil gushing out of pipe. sfx: birds chirping. happening now, a "situation room" special report, crisis in syria. president obama makes headway with two of his toughest critics when it comes to sarah jessica parker b-- to syria. we're getting a preview of the debate. the president's decision to seek congressional approval. how it could help or hurt the rest of his agenda. the signatures of sarin gas were found on victims in syria. we're looking at the evidence and whether it's reliable. i'm wolf blitzer, you're in "the
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situation room." very busy, intense labor day holiday here in the united states as the president of the united states tries to convince members of congress to approve u.s. military action against syria in response to a deadly chemical weapons attack. republican senators john mccain and lindsey graham, they say they're more supportive of a limited strike against the bashar al assad regime after meeting with the president in the oval office today. but the two longtime critics of the president when it comes to syria say they want assurances that a strategy will be forceful, will be sustainable after delaying action for so long. >> we don't want endless war. john and i -- john knows better than anybody, war is a terrible thing. we want sustainable security. and syria is a cancer that's growing in the region. and for two years, the president
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has allowed this to become, quite frankly, a debacle. >> right now, top democrats in congress are working to try to narrow the scope of legislation authorizing the use of force. white house officials say they are confident about eventually hammering out on agreement. we're joined by two of the co-hosts of the new cnn "crossfire." debuts one week from today. stephanie cutter was one of president obama's top advisers. van jones also worked in the obama administration. when it comes to this issue of u.s. military action on syria, they disagree. also with us, david frohm. you're not with the president yet, are you, van, when it comes to authorizing u.s. military action, even without uk, u.n., or united nato support, are you? >> no, i'm not. last week, i felt that if we
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were going to do something quick, send a signal and build a global coalition, i was willing to be supportive. we are in a different world now. if we were to move now without even the uk, you have an action that is both illegal, no u.n. support, illegitimate, no global coalition, and also ill-planned, with possible huge blowback. i don't think we should rush into this war. i think the president was wise to have a break in the action. give us a chance to think this thing through. >> but you totally are with the president, stephanie, right? >> yes. i think when a nation uses chemical weapons on its own people, it doesn't impact the security of the people on the ground, but it impacts our security because it sends a message to assad, to north korea, to iran that it's okay to use chemical weapons. so we have to send a strong message back, that there are consequences. if the u.n. won't act, we can act with our allies. the united states is going to lead here. >> what about that, david?
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>> to lead where? the thing that is so haunting about this debate is that we really don't have an answer to the question what are we trying to accomplish in syria? if you weaken the assad regime, you strike when the people are identifying the assad regime. are we in favor of them taking power? if this is, as a lot of people jokingly say, a war between al qaeda and iran, the united states -- that's a fight which the united states does not have a dog. >> i agree with that also. but i think that the difference here is the president's not advocating getting involved in a civil war, because we don't know what will happen if assad isn't in power. we do know that. >> the president is so beyond that. we have to send a message. >> everyone talks about this as if we are today making a decision for the first time. in fact, the united states starts supplying aid to the rebels in the spring, since the summer it's been supplying rifles. it's been supplying night gog e
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gogglgoggl goggles and communications equipment. we are going toe by toe. the administration is telling itself well we are going to do cruise missiles but we are not committed. when this whole thing fails, what's next? >> i think those cruise missiles are going to fail in toppling his ability to use chemical weapons. i don't think the u.s. military is going to fail. >> part of the reason that we are in this mess is because we have fallen into a false dilemma. either we do nothing, or we start firing missiles off and hoping for the best. i don't think it makes sense at this point for us to pretend that there are not other options on the table. there's a break in the action now. we were moving forward with this war. there's a break in the action. why are we not talking about the other options on the table? >> what are they, van? >> we should be calling for an arms embargo, begin to bring peace to the region. why are we not talking about -- >> the russians aren't going to
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do that. >> they're not. >> i think the problem we have right now is that we have accepted that the onlieies optis that we have are to start firing missiles. i'd rather lose face than lose lives. are we supposed to walk across the street and kick over a hornet's nest with no plan, because if we don't do that we're afraid if we're going to look bad? i think you look bad for doing it. >> i do think we can send a strong message to dictators -- that if they use chemical weapons, there will be consequences. if we call for an arms embargo. >> you have an idea we can think about how we can think about something before we know what we want to do. one of the methods by which we do this thing that we don't know we should want to do. the question is do you want to do it? and of course the united states military will be very successful in making things go boom in syria. they will put on a fantastic show. but will the regime's ability to terrorize and commit atrocities
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be degraded after two days of cruise missiling? it will not. they will continue to do those things. the assad regime will take a punch, shake it off, and we will be again back at the question what do we do now, only now, more embarrassed and driven to advance in a direction we have not thought through. >> we're on a slippery slope into a war. we have to do two things. punish the assad regime so they do not keep doing this. we also have to get on the road to peace. and the peace is more important than the punishment in the long-term. if we get ourselves to a posture where we find ourselves in a middle of a civil war and we've gone by ourselves, we have no friends, don't have the uk, don't have the u.n., we are by ourselves in the middle of a civil war because we didn't want to look bad, that looks bad. >> i don't think the united states is acting alone here. i think that we saw a strong statement from the arab league yesterday. particularly allies in the region. so we're not going alone. i don't understand the difference, that if we acted immediately it would be okay,
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versus acting now when we're more deliberate. and we're going to congress to ensure that we've got the will of the people behind us. >> david, i want to ask you one question. very quickly, david. >> okay, if we are alone for all purposes, if that regime falls, that country cracks apart and the scale of commitment is going to require not the arab leagues. >> but we are talking about two different things here. >> countries that write big checks. >> on friday night, i interviewed dr. hans blix, the chief u.n.s weapons inspector in iraq. he was repeatedly racing questions skeptical about all the reports of wmd in iraq. here's what he said about the current u.s. intelligence and what the u.s. needs to do. listen to his perspective. >> i think the proper place to present the evidence would be in the world court. i'm sure that the world in general would not want the u.s. or nato or any individual states
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to be a world police. >> he was right ten years ago in raising all sorts of flags about wmd in iraq. is he right now? >> if you suggest you're going to go to u.n. security council where syria's most important ally russia has a veto, and you'll have something like a hearing in a world court, i think that's pretty fanciful. as to what happened, the united states intelligence services are the best sources of information about what happened. but as to what we should do, and that is a decision that can't be delegated to anybody else. >> hold on a second, you're saying we shouldn't even try. now that we know more than we did a week ago, we have evidence now of sarin gas. you're saying we shouldn't even try to go to the united nations with new evidence? about dropping the bombs, and then what. that is the problem. we have the opportunity to build a bigger coalition for action. you want president obama to go into a war with a smaller
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coalition than george w. bush had. that does not make sense. >> that's the opposite of what i just said. >> i was saying that to stephanie. but honestly, i don't understand why -- since there's now a break in the action, we wouldn't take advantage of that, to go to the united nations, to give them the opportunity to hear what the evidence is, and why would we rush into a war with a smaller coalition than george w. bush did? >> i think that there is no possible way, as david said, that russia, who is actually supplying the weapons to syria and stoking what's going on in syria, will let something get through the security council. i'm all for the united nations. i've always been for the united nations. i don't think they're going to act here. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. >> good discussion. good debate, guys. thanks very much. underscoring the complexity of this issue. you have two former advisers to president obama strongly disagreeing on where to go next. a little bit of support from the
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current president of the united states. when our special report continues, the united states making a strong case for military action against syria. but what about the united nations? we'll check in with u.n. officials. stand by. but first, stephanie cutter has a closer look at another vintage "crossfire" moment. >> one of the most intense episodes of "crossfire" was in november of 1985. six months earlier, the philadelphia police department's attempt to evict members of a group called move from their homes started a fire. they killed 11 people and destroyed 61 homes. watch what happened when two members of move joined tom braden. >> you said, and i quote, "there is no doubt that move threw garbage in the streets." now, i assume that you saw them throw garbage in the streets.
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is this true? >> pardon me. we cannot all derive our knowledge by personal experience. every newspaper reported that you threw garbage in the streets. hundreds of able news men reported that you threw garbage in the streets. >> we can't talk together, may i finish, please? if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking.
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starting at just $49 installed. adt. always there. call or click today. as the united states makes its case for military action in syria, what's next for the united nations? our senior international correspondent nick paton walsh is here with us. he's been covering the u.n., the lead weapons inspector is supposed to be back here reporting what's going on. are we supposed to get the hard conclusive evidence that there was a chemical attack? >> reporter: they're being very cautious about when that will happen. they're giving us little details about steps as they happen. tomorrow we are expecting her to brief some of the nations who wrote to the u.n. asking for more information about the inspections process. the secretary-general will also address the members of the
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security council. here's the more important bit. the samples have arrived at the laboratories in the hague that will do the testing and that testing is supposed to be happening within the hour now. >> how long will it take to get the results? >> hard to tell. some experts saying a weej. there's a huge amount of pressure given how the u.s. managed to go after the attack. about 11 days. they have blood and sample tissues they were confident enough that contain sarin signatures. it's entirely possible they will get a lot of pressure. >> let's say they have a complete report, another week, two weeks, three weeks. the u.s. has not done any military action yet. will they bring all of this to the 15 members of the u.n. security council, make their presentation, and then have an open public argument over there? >> i think the belief is that once this report is put forward, the u.n. will say we are the independent credible source of this kind of information. they're not assigning blame for who did it. just saying whether these weapons were used or not. people are asking why is it that
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president obama waited for congress to come back rather than waexpediting the process. they may start talking about whether or not those chemicals were present on the ground. that's what people are looking for at the u.n. >> that's what i heard from dr. hans blix. he wants all the evidence to go before the united nations and let the world then see the evidence and make a decision. thanks very much. still ahead in our special report, the administration's justification for wanting to attack syria. we're going over the evidence ourselves of a chemical weapons attack, and whether all of that evidence is reliable. [ male announcer ] ah... retirement. sit back, relax, pull out the paper and what? another article that says investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars in hidden fees on their 401(k)s?! seriously? seriously. you don't believe it? search it. "401(k) hidden fees." then go to e-trade and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. we have every type of retirement account.
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warning signs are not the same for everyone. if you think something's wrong... see your doctor. ask about gynecologic cancer. and get the inside knowledge. secretary of state john kerry says proof that chemical weapons attack lies in the so called signatures of sarin found in samples taken from syria, but how reliable are those claims? our own brian todd has been
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taking a closer look at this part of the story. he's joining us with details of what he's learning. what are you learning? >> the obama administration is speaking in confident terms about the sources for this information. the evidence it has to make its case. but after the disaster in iraq, we've looked into what it a repeat of the slam-dunk? former chief weapons ch inspector dachd kay that previously looked for the traces in wrooirng says the signature of sarin is not something you can see or smell. >> think of how any other chemical you're familiar with around the house or food substance will break down into
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other things. you're not looking for smell or discoloration. >> kay says that unlike mustard gas, it does not burn your skin. the victims who die from it he says, die because when it's breathed in it shuts down you're nerves. then you suffocate. experts say to find out if that's happened to find that signature, you take blood, hair, brain tissue, clothing samples, and then, a portable version of this. a gas chrome machine. >> another signatures. >> how reliable are the samples? how reliable are the tests? >> if you're going to get a single sample or half a dozen samples, i think most of us would be concerned because you're concerned about how they were collected and all. that's why the inspectors were so careful to get a -- to take multiple samples from places. >> kay says nothing is 100% in these situations but if u.n.
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inspectors took enough and 'kromed them well enough the reliability should be high. a u.s. official we contacted wouldn't say how many samples they took or talk about methods. what we do know, many of these victims never had a chance. >> sarins if you don't have one of these. >> if you don't have one of those online very much out of luck. literally, within minutes, your body will begin to shut down. it's not just the types of things you've seen on these videos with the twitching and difficulty seeing things and 'foaming at the mouth. you're body will short circuit and you'll die within minutes. >> could there be false positives in the testing of those victims? david kay says not if you do the testing well enough. he says it's more likely you'll get inconclusive results in a given sample if the traces are minute or if there's no traces at all because of the shelling of the area the forces did after the chemical attack. wolf? brian todd, thanks very much on
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the case of signatures of sarin gas. another big day in the syria crisis. we'll tell you what's on the agenda for tomorrow. too big. too small. too soft. too tasty. [ both laugh ] [ male announcer ] introducing progresso's new creamy alfredo soup. inspired by perfection.
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the obama administration is planning to brief members of congress on syria and a possible u.s. military strike almost every single day this week. certainly a lot of action unfolding with congress over at the white house tomorrow. congressional aides say president obama will meet with the house speaker john boehner and the minority leader nancy pelosi in the morning. john kerry, the defense secretary dhuk hagel together with the chairman of the joint chiefs will all testify before the senate foreign relation's committee in the afternoon. and the lead weapons' inspector is expected to brief united nation's members into, alleged chemical weapons use in syria. we'll have live coverage of all of that as much as possible. i'll be anchoring our coverage around the congressional testimony tomorrow afternoon starting at 2:00 p.m. eastern when hagel, kerry, and general
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dempsey testify. i'll be back later tonight 9:00 p.m. eastern filling in for piers morgan live. we have a lots of may jeer guests including the republican senator and ranking member of the foreign relation's committee holding the hearing tomorrow. you can follow us on twitter. follow me @wolf blitzer. erin burnetts starts right knew. the breaking news on the crisis in syria. president obama says he wants to upgrade the opposition. does that mean arming al qaeda? and then within an amazing feat that proves your never too old to chase your dreams. what one 64-year-old woman did today that defies belief. and it has an innocent-sounding woman's name but it far from that. what is molly and why is it so deadly? a special record. let's go "outfront."