>> and that's a number to remember, $180,000. in tomorrow's special out front investigation, are some tax exempt organizations cheating the system? it's a really important part of this investigation and part of the exclusive series the truth about the irs that continues tomorrow. thanks for joining us tonight. thanks for joining us tonight. "ac 360" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com erin thanks. good evening everyone. ariel castro's life ends in death. he committed suicide says authorities an interview with his family. a teacher who admitted to raping a 14-year-old student who later killed herself. a judge suggested the young girl was partially to blame. why the case may not be closed after all. >> we begin with the question of a red line, who set it, crossed it? the politics of it and what that means as the united states weighs taking military action in syria. the red line is, of course, the

use of chemical weapons, the united states is accusing syria of using against its own people two weeks ago. the use violates convention signed by nearly 200 nations, syria not included. it's a point president obama made on a stop to sweden on the way to the g 20 summit. >> i didn't set a red line. the world set a red line. the world set a red line when governments representing 98% of the world's population said the use of chemical weapons are wrong and passed a treaty forbidding the use even when countries are engaged in war. congress set a red line when it ratified that treaty. >> so the president says he didn't set a red line, that raised a lot of eyebrows because keeping them honest that sounds like exactly what he did when you listen to what he said in august of 2012. >> we have been very clear to the assad regime and also to

other players on the ground that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. that would change my kcalculous and equation. >> some say he boxed himself in with that statement last year and many wondered if today hearing president obama saying it for the first time, during the debate on the capitol hill eric contore said any president would draw that red line and john kerry tried to drive home the point it wasn't something the president just made up. >> now some have tried to suggest that the debate that we're having today is about this president's red line. this is about president obama's red line. let me make it as clear as i can to all of you, that is just not true. this is about the world's red

line. it's about humanity's red line, a line that anyone with a conscience should draw, and a line that was drawn nearly 100 years ago in 1925 when the chemical weapons convention was agreed on. >> the secretary kerry in front of the house foreign affairs committee where he and chuck hagel and general martin dempsey faced tough questions today and that was set against a vote by the senate committee passing a resolution authorizing limited military action. jim has more. >> reporter: today the syria debate moved to the less friendly territory of the gop controlled house foreign affairs committee. some members saying administration wants to do too much, others too little. >> why does america always need to be the world's policemen? >> our enemies don't know what our foreign policy is. our friends don't know what it is, and i'm not so sure americans know what our foreign policy is in the middle east.

>> reporter: secretary kerry was forced everyone to confront the ghosts of the administration's last troubled middle east earn intervention in libya. >> the same administration that was seemingly so quick to involve the u.s. in syria now was reluctant to use the same resources at it's disposal to attempt to rescue the four brave americans that fought for their lives in benghazi. >> we're talking about people being killed by gas and you want to talk about ben gghazi -- >> i absolutely want to talk about benghazi. >> reporter: framing the confrontation with syria not as a personal test for the president but congress, the country, and the world. >> this is not about getting into syria's civil war. this is about enforcing the principle that people shouldn't be allowed to gas their citizens with impunity and if we don't

vote to do this, assad will interpret to you that he is free to go and do this any day he wants to. >> reporter: many remain skeptical a limited u.s. intervention won't bring the u.s. in a civil war or leave it allied with eloquent thes of the opposition. >> do you trust these people? >> that's not my business to trust anybody -- >> it has to be the business because you're making decisions to go into war and put american lives at risk. so it's a simple concept. you either trust or do not trust. >> jim joins me live. the balancing act between too much action, too little, you get a sense of that from lawmakers today. >> no question. you have two vastly different and contradictory arguments and the limited strikes don't go far enough and should be changing the actual operation on the ground and you heard from those who want to do less, repeatedly getting secretary kerry to

promise no boots on the ground and the u.s. won't end up strengthening al qaeda. in effect, a gold dee locks proposition authorizing military actions that's not too hot, not too cold, not too aggressive, not too soft. that's why we are seeing such a parsing on the wording and difficult to get wording that will get the votes on both sides of that debate. >> yeah, jim sciutto good reporting and welcome to cnn. up next my panel. david, let me start with you, you heard the president say he did not set a red line, the world did and his credibility is not on the line, the world's is. do you buy that? >> not really. i give the credit -- the president credit today for taking a high ground and trying to shame the rest of the world

into taking action. he did thatfectively. but when it comes to this argument about a red line, there is a real difference. international treaties do say you cannot use chemical weapons, but if you then -- if you then violate those treaties, those treaties are silent about military action. in effect, what the world says is if you violate an international treaty you go to the un and decide on military action. what the president did and why he got -- there -- why this red line business got him in trouble in the context of saying whether he'll use military action or not in syria he said if they cross this line, i will recalibrate my position. he sent a clear message if they cross this line, he would use military action. that's very different from the treaties. >> right. >> and put his credibility on the line and as commander in chief, put the credibility of the united states on the line, and that's really important not just in syria but arriran.

>> the fact they said the world set the line in chemical weapons use, how do you respond? >> the treaty doesn't require military action. if you go back to the 1980s, saddam was regularly using poison gas against his own people and in the iran, iraq war. you go back a few years earlier, poison gas in yemen. nobody said was that a moral case for us. start with the fact 100,000 people have been killed in syria. a lot of children have been killed in syria. this is pretty horrifying stuff, but is it stuff which justifies the united states engaging in, frankly, a limited confused strike against a dictatorship which is not going to be very effective by a limited strike -- >> so you would vote no. >> i would vote no but say if assad is still sitting there after the strikes, he'll be in

position to say the united states didn't do much to effect me. i'm in charge and then what do we do? >> what about that? you see the president struggling and two different paths here. >> he highlighted the great danger which is when you have a limited strike of this nature you almost yield the initiative to the other side because if they survive that strike, and if assad is able to continue to do what he's doing, maybe he doesn't use chemical weapons again you haven't really won because you have inched your way into the civil war. you've taken him aside and you're not winning, and the united states can't put credibility on the line and say that's it, we did three days of strikes. after this what happens doesn't matter, especially not when the secretary of state compared this to munik and the president come parred it to the holocaust. to sell this limited strike they are using language that so inflated and dramatized it you

wonder won't the action have to catch up. >> let's talk about this language becaused administration said -- secretary kerry said i don't believe we're going to war. i just don't believe that. aren't we going to war? >> of course we're going to war. when you -- assuming that this is going to be several days of dozens and dozens of cruise missile strikes but any definition of the word, you're going to war. on the other hand he says this is your munic moment, to stop aggression by using military action. you can't have it both ways in a sense. it's either so dramatic we have to go to war to stop this naked aggression or the violation or it's a tiny military action that doesn't even qualify -- >> charles, last night you said how deeply you are, did you hear anything else? >> this idea of talking of i believe -- one of the most

striking lines to me, particularly as a writer the line the president used. we believe very strongly with high confidence that in fact, chemical weapons were used but that mr. assad was the source. the factor is not a fact. you know it or don't. this idea of constantly talking we believe. we have high confidence. that may be as much as they can give with the intelligence they have, however, as -- you know, the public receiving this, it sounds very squishing and on the back end of it, what assures us if you slap a tiger you don't plan to kill it won't advance. if you go in and attack assad and you do not take him out, what assures us that he will not retaliate at some point, even if not the next month -- sometime -- >> do you have confidence that this defense department, this administration has thought out what happens on day two? happens on day three and beyond? we got involve in iraq and there

hadn't been any plan or considered the idea of there being an insure again see. are you worried about long-term plans? >> you always have to worry. you don't know what the iranians will do to protect assad who is their ally and sending troops and supplies to syria. second, you don't know what a o assad will do. once the united states engages you have an obligation to win or you look weaker and dumber, and i am very dubious -- secretary hagel today if i read it correctly said at one point we can do this for tens of millions of dollars. each tomahawk is a million dollars this would be the equivalent of sending a tweet by tomahawk. you really see it in language this is an act of war.

for secretary of kerry saying i don't see us getting into war as he prepares to fire missiles is totally list mading firing those missiles is an act of war. >> there are three republicans in the senate foreign relations committee that voted yes. that can't be that encouraging for administration. >> well, anderson, i think you have to give the president a victory today coming out of the senate foreign relations committee. he could have been defeated but instead, 10-7. start with that proposition. what is interesting about this is if you project onto the house and senate votes what happened today in senate foreign relations, if you have for republicans voting the same way proportionally in both chambers and democrats voting the same way, the president would actually get a slim majority in each chamber but interestingly, he would fall short in the senate of 60. you know, so we all assume that

his worst chances are in the house, but based on today's vote, he has a climb to make in the senate to get to 60. >> charles, you agree this is war? >> oh, i absolutely agree it's war, and i want -- the speaker said, you know, let's talk about the tomahawk missiles. we should be very clear what will happen. we keep talking about no boots on the ground. this will not just be missiles launched from ships there are aircraft carriers in the red sea for a reason because you need some work with pilots in planes over syria. this cannot be accomplished by drones. drones don't have the capability to do air to air combat. the syrian military does have some air defenses, so they can fire surface to air. you cannot do it with drones. you have to put american bodies above syrian air space that holds the risk some can be shot down. so this idea we are not going to put boots on the ground and stay

back from syria, that's not the truth. people need to understand that. >> do you agree there has to be in the world a red line, though, with the use of chemical weapons? some people say look, 100,000 people have died, children have been tortured to death, horrible things have occurred here. i mean, is the use of chemical weapons a red line which the nations of the world cannot tolerate? >> it's a terrible thing. assad is incredibly brutal, but, you know, he has -- about 100,000 people have died. about 1,400 have died because of chemical weapons. in a strange way, the chemical weapon convention is a throw back to a time when conventional weapons couldn't kill those many people. now using bombs you can kill two, three times as many people as the chemical agents can. of course, it's a terrible thing. but i think if you look at the history it was included as a weapon of mass destruction really after the gulf war when we wanted to put saddam hussain

in a box and make sure he wasn't doing anything bad so we said you can't build nuclear weapons, biological weapons and chemical weapons and then we kept him in that box and we kept emphasizing chemical weapons. i think yes, of course you don't want these weapons used but the impulse behind it which is you could kill lots of people is actually no longer true. conventional war kills many more people. >> you already see mission creed. >> i see mission creed because of the rhetoric and mccain says he'll support the resolution because he's been given private assurances this is not going to be a limited strike or symbolic and much bigger, that there is going to be more arms given to the opposition, an opposition not given arms because administration hasn't been able to find the moderates, so all of this suggestions we'll relax our standers as to who qualifies for weapons in training. >> well, all of a sudden, john kerry yesterday or the day

before that said they are more moderate than we've been thinking which is the first time -- >> when dempsey said they couldn't find a lot of moderates. >> we have to leave it there. gentlemen, thank you. let us know what you think on twitter @andersoncooper. you-all remember the weapons of mass destruction that lead to the war, claims that were false. the question is will that legacy affect president obama's chances to get a resolution through congress? i'll speak with paul, who is obviously intimately involved in the policy. also ahead, aerial castro committing suicide in prison. he was sentenceed to life plus 1,000 years for holding three women captive for a decade. he couldn't even take a small portion of what he himself dished savidge's exclusive interview with the family coming up.

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secretary hagel who will soon be here and general dempsey also remembers it very well. secretary hagel and i both voted in the united states senate. and so both of us are especial licensetive to never again asking any member of congress to vote on faulty intelligence. >> as deputy secretary of defense under president george w. bush paul was a major influence on the iraq policy in 2003 and talking about plans for the u.s. invasion. he joins me now live. mr. secretary, thanks for being here. there is a disagreement what the objective should be. in your view should it be to detour assad from using chemical weapons again or go further? >> there is a much larger issue here, which is the whole syria policy and we're sitting on our hands doing nothing while assad slaughters people more than 100,000 syrians and taking it a

step further with the use of chemical weapons and i think it's doing enormous damage to american interest. there is a who'll parade of possible things that can go wrong, and i think -- i don't want to pile on, i think the president handled things badly and we're in a bad situation because of that, but the fact is doing nothing has big consequences as well and i think they are bigger, and i think one has to consider, too, i wish the president hadn't thrown this in the lap of congress, it's sort of looking for help for his own lack of leadership, but the fact is if the congress turns down the president now, it's not only a blow to president obama, i think it's a blow to the presidency and american credibility in an important part of the world. so i very much with those people who say to make this a serious response, it has to be more than just blowing up some targets in s syria. the focus should be helping syrians. there are plenty of syrian whose can use our help and we're not

even letting them have gas masks. i think that's a policy that has to change. >> i know you say you're concerned about a lack of discovery, you know your critics say the same thing about the second iraq war in which you were intimately involved, a key planner, that there wasn't planning for the insure again see. do you feel like this administration has thought out steps two three and four? >> no, i don't. no one was predicting ali qaeda and the planning for that wasn't good. that's a fact. i think in the case of syria, we're looking at a situation that's a lot more like what we had in iraq at the end of the first gulf war in 1991 when saddam slaughtered possibly 100 thousand, 200,000 with our plains flying and the result was

he suppressed the rebellion and remain in power and the country was crippled, in someways destroyed by sanctions -- >> you advocated at the time, if i recall correct, going after s saddam then, right. >> i think saddam would have been taken care of by his own people. >> is chemical weapons the red line? >> honestly, i think 100,000 people being slaughtered and doing nothing is a read lynn. [ overlapping speakers ] >> the critical difference is not about intelligence but the fact that we're not talking about actions that involve a major risk to american lives. the people risking their lives are syrians, and a lot of those syrians have interest and values, i believe, i don't know them, i'm taking this on the word of people who have been there, interest in values in common with ours and in that case, you know, it was once

called the regan doctrine to arm people fighting on your side so your people don't have to fight. i think it's a sound and strategic and moral principle. >> last night he said his red line would have been the use of syria's air force against its own people. would that, for you, have been something that should have been responded to? >> yes, i believe so but again, let me emphasize i think the most important response is enabling the syrians to fight for themselves and to fight more effecti effectively. let me say something else, there is a distinct lack of strategy here but to the extend there is a strategy it seems to be aimed at trying to find some peaceful resolution of this. i'm all for peaceful resolution. i'm not sure it's impossible to get one. i am sure it's impossible to get one until assad and the people around him realize that they are on the way out, then maybe you can get some negotiating going. so we need some real leverage

and it's not going to come from a few days of missile strikes. that has to be the key the a strategy. >> we heard congress say the american public is war weary. do you understand why they back it up -- >> absolutely. >> a lot of them say because of the second iraq war. >> absolutely. we were war weary after the korean war and that didn't stop us from undertaking what we needed to do later. look, i think the president should do a better job for the last couple years explaining to the american people, number one, we have serious interest in syria, both national interest and i think moral interest and explaining the goal here is not to send more americans to die. we've had enough of that for as long as possible. the goal is to enable syrians to tig fight for their country so we're not stuck with a problem later on. i think americans understand that reasoning but it hasn't

been presented to them. >> appreciate your time. thank you. the prosecutor cut a deal with ariel castro to spare the death penalty calls his suicide the coward's way out. an exclusive interview with martin savidge. the teacher that raped his 14-year-old student may not get off as easy as possible. montana's attorney general is taking action. and you've got the it card, so we won't hike up your apr for paying late. that's great! it is great! thank you. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card with late payment forgiveness.

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welcome back. crime and punishment tonight, the prosecutor put ariel castro behind bars is calling it the coward's way out. the rapist and killer apparently killed himself according to authoriti authorities. he was found hanging in his prison cell a month after his sentence. the coroner ruled it a suicide. the crimes are so heinous, it is beyond understanding. bepleaded guilty to more than 900 counts. the judge said there is no place in the world for his brand of chemical. the women he held captive are not expected to make any statements about his suicide according to one of their lawyers. one of castro's relatives is talking with martin savidge. >> reporter: at one point, prosecutors had threatened the death penalty against ariel castro, in the end authorities say he delivered it to himself. ohio corrections officials said

he hung himself in the prison cell, they found him at 9:20 p.m. tuesday. the question for many is how could it happen? castro was separated from the prison pollation and supposedly under protective custody checked every half hour. his family is shocked. they don't have suspicions but do have questions. >> the family has raised that question. it doesn't feel right. there's no note. we don't know that he wrote a suicide note. >> reporter: authorities aren't giving details and an investigation is underway. his mother and sister last visited him ten days ago and the clear signs of depression. >> his body language, tone of voice, his conversation, he wasn't as conversational. >> reporter: a missed warning? perhaps. good riddens say most on the

street and online. their thoughts best summed up in the words of the prosecutor. this man couldn't take for even a month a small portion of what he had dished out for more than a decade. castro's family gets it. listen his brother-in-law as he verbally walks a painful tight rope between justice and the family's love for the man they knew long ago. >> the world in general feel they are rid of a monster, but to the family, the family has lost a son, a father, a grandfather, an uncle, a brother-in-law, and even though he did all these bad things and the family does not condone that, you cannot change human behavior. they will and they must grieve

the loss of their loved one. >> reporter: but they will do it privately, no funeral, no wake, no service, not wanting in any way to revive the suffering of his victims gina de jesus, amanda berry and michelle knight. >> let's hope remembers their names and not the name of that awful man. martin savidge joins us live from cleveland. is there an investigation by the prison about how this man was able to apparently kill himself? >> reporter: apparently, now there are two investigations, one being conducted by the ohio state highway patrol and the department of corrections that launched it's own investigation, both are expected to take weeks. >> and we're not expecting to hear anything from amanda berry or michelle knight or gina de jesus, right? >> reporter: we haven't heard it yet. they heard the news right away. their attorneys haven't issued statements. the girls have not publicly said anything, either.

>> where are you located? the former location of the house? >> reporter: yeah, i'm glad you asked. this was ariel castro's front yard and the house of horrors stood here. it was demolished and this is what was built in it's place a community park. it's now referred to as kind of instead of the house of horrors, a place of hope. let's get caught up on other stories with isha. chaos at a high school outside of houston, a 17-year-old student stabbed to death in a fight and three other students injured. the school was put on lockdown leaving parents frantic. investigators are questioning a 17-year-old boy who authorities say is considered the sole suspect. a dramatic development in the epic custody battle over a little girl named veronica. today oklahoma's governor signed an extradition order for her biological father dustin brown who faces charges of ka stoet yol interference in south

carolina days after oklahoma's supreme court issued an emergency stay giving brown temporary custody of veronica. george zimmerman's latest traffic stop caught on video. florida police say he was doing 60 in a 45 mile per hour zone and given a $256 ticket. in july after his acquittal in the trayvon martin killing, zimmerman was stopped for speeding but let off with a warning. for the second time this week, japan was slammed with tornados. the twisters damaged dozens of houses ripping off roofs and shattering windows. at least three people were injured, just terrifying pictures there. >> isha thanks very much. the new fight for justice for a young rape victim in montana who ended up killing herself, a student raped by her teacher who got 30 days in jail by a judge. what the state's top prosecutor is trying to do. the flag raised on ground 0

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welcome back, another crime and punishment report now. for more than a week outrage has been building over the light sentence given to a former teacher in montana admitting to raping his 14-year-old student. the judge that imposed the students made outrageous remarks about the young rape victim. the attorney general stepped in and took action. randi kaye joins me and jeffrey toobin. remind the viewers who happened. >> this case goes back to 2007 when stacey rambold raped sharee shareece morlaesmorlaes. he was charged with sexual intercourse without consent but before the case could go to trial, cherice morzlez took her life. prosecutors were concerned about trying rambold without the star witness so offered him a deal if he admitted to a rape charge, complete add sex offender

program and had no unsupervised contact with minors but he failed the treatment program, anderson, so the felony charges were refiled. the judge only sentenced him to 15 years with all by 31 days suspended so he only got a month, anderson, for admitting to raping a 14-year-old girl. that brings us to today when montana state prosecutors appealed the case calling the sentence illegal. the judge said he was not made aware of a mandatory sentence of two years. >> this boggles my mind how a judge could sentence him to 30 days. yesterday he filed a report saying the ruling may have been illegal but blamed the prosecutor saying they didn't inform him about this mandatory minimum. >> the judge, he's up for reelection soon and sees the public reaction, but i think you have to put this in context with how a lot of people unfortunately view rape in this country. you know, remember in the senate

campaigns in indiana and missouri, you had people talking about well it's not real rape, and the idea that, you know, a 14-year-old is capable of consent to rape -- to sex, that is an idea that a lot of people still have in this country -- >> the judge still has this idea. >> the judge had the idea. >> he said that she was kron loglo -- chronological 14 but older -- >> who was by that point dead. bad enough you would say that about any 14-year-old but one who had taken her own life as a result. i think it's indicative of how a lot of attitudes about rape have changed in this country, but a lot have not. unfortunately, this judge is really being called on it. >> randi, there is strong reaction. is there still a lot of uproar? >> absolutely, anderson and the judge may have brought it upon

himself. in trying to explain himself, the judge said the 14 year old was just as much in control and seemed beyond her chronological age as you said. there was a media backlash and protest took place all over montana and he later apologized saying he regretted it and didn't know what he was thinking and saying and call whag he said was stupid and wrong but anderson, people are still calling for him to step down. >> how likely is it this can get reversed? >> i think likely. he did sentence him to 15 years but suspended all but 30 days of it. it's possible to sentence him to more time. the prosecutors have come back today and said we went 20 years. the mandatory minimum apparently, is two years, so somewhere between two and 15 years seems likely. up next, a mystery connected to the media after math of 9/11.

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welcome back. as the u.s. debates military action in syria, the war in afghanistan and tonight cnn presents the flag that explores the mystery surrounding the american flag raised over the rubble on ground zero, a mystery that many of us probably are not aware of. many of you may recall the firefighters hoisting the flag

in the smoke and dust sending a message the united states will not be defeated by terrorist. the flag toured the country a proud and reassuring symbol to the nation. so it was believed. as tonight's documentary explains, that actual flag is missing. here is a preview. ♪ ♪ >> my goodness. that was quite a picture. >> do you remember the first time you saw that? >> i do. i probably saw it -- somebody probably showed this to me sometime on the 11th or 12th before it was in the paper, whoever actually thought of taking it at exactly that time were the firefighters in doing it performed a tremendous service to the country. >> tom's photo comes in and we huddled around the computer and he brings up this photo. >> and that popped out because of the flag. everything had this grayish blue tent to it and there you saw the

red, white and blue. >> and i sat there and i said, that's an incredible picture and daniel was standing behind me and she said, that's not a picture, it's an icon. >> about a year after 9/11, they asked for the flag back for a little ceremony on their boat and the city compiled. they thought this was a good idea and gave it to them. >> we knew right away it was the wrong flag. >> this is another flag that somehow became substituted for the original flag. where is the original flag? and they went back to the mayor's office. >> but the city never called, they never did anything. and they don't seem to care that are very happy to make it sound like the flag is here, and it's this big flag, and this is the flag, and that big flag has everybody's signature on it. so they are quite happy to say this is the flag and leave it alone like that. >> to this day, no one knows what happened to that flag. >> my name is bill isengrin.

i'm the firefighter on the right. on the left is george johnson and in the center dan mcwilliams. it was over in a few minutes. we found a spot, raised the flag. we looked at each other, looked at the flag and that was that. it was no big deal and i'm sure danny and george feel the same way. we just felt that we had other things that needed to be accomplished right then. you know, we were thousands of missing people that was our mission to try to find them and bring them home. dealing with the picture on the front of the paper really didn't matter at that point. >> it makes us all feel united. it makes us feel like we're bigger than just ourselves. >> it's not until we're challenged that we reach back at what makes us americans and what that is and what the symbol is is the flag.

>> as you see there, it says the flag is still missing. cnn received credible tips on what may have happened to it. jason is here with that part of the story. i understand a dozen tips have come in. >> absolutely. speaking with the film maker saying a dozen coming in as we speak. they call them credible because many have in fact, led them to a flag, a flag at ground zero, just not the flag. >> and it's interesting, the people whose flag it was originally, they had a yacht, i guess, parked nearby ground zero and the firefighters grabbed the flag off that yacht and that's how they knew once it was returned to the yacht owners, wait, this flag doesn't fit. >> here is what is interesting. she and her husband, the original owners of this particular flag, they are basically the only ones who can tell what that flag looks like.

there is some undisclosed mark they are not revealing what that is, so once they are able to get a flag in their hands through a tip, through whatever means possible, that couple will then take a look at the flag and they will be the ones to make the determination. >> that is interesting. so they -- >> they are the only ones. >> wow. when i first heard about this documentary, i had no idea about this missing flag. i'm wondering, though, how some people may see the documentary. i haven't seen it yet. i guess there is a concern it could miss the point by focussing on the flag you miss the larger, the larger loss, the larger horror of that day. >> look, like you and most people did not know there was a flag missing and i think there is also this concern when you talk about what is missing. there is people whose loved ones remains were never found. >> on course. >> i think that's a legitimate question. when i pose that to the film maker, he recognizes that as well. his hope and the team they worked with, part of their hope is not only will people, you know, think about the flag that

is missing but also will remember what the flag stood for during that critical moment in our history and hopefully, this will remind them and be a way people will not forget. >> "the new york times" gave it a great review in today's paper and raise that exact same point and the idea that if they had only focused on just the flag, it would have missed the larger point but there is so much more. >> when you look at this documentary and i watched it last night for the first time. >> how do you get a recording and i don't? >> i'll give you my copy of it. >> okay. >> it's really worth viewing because for some of us who were actually here, you were here, i was here, you -- it is easy to forget, first of all. there is some images that remind you about what happened on that day, but what is really striking about this documentary is not only does it go into the search for this flag and people who think they may have it or come in contact with it, it's also

just as much about the feeling of the mood of the country during that time, the first responders, you know, who were down there, how they put their lives on the line. the photographs down there. >> right. >> during that period of time, all of that is part of this documentary, as well. >> thanks very much. look forward to it. cnn films presents the flag comes up next at 9:00 just four minutes from now. we'll be right back. this was the hardest decision i've ever had to make. jim, i adore the pool at your hotel. anna, your hotels have wondrous waffle bars.

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welcome back. we ran out of time for "the ridiculist." sorry about that. that does it for us. appreciate you watching, up next the movie we were talking about, the flag, one of the great untold stories of the september untold stories of the september 11th attack s -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com one, two. >> one, two. >> there you go. >> let's go. >> all the brothers stepped up. got donations. put it together. it was just supposed to be for 2002 to show new york city what 343 firefighters looked like and it turned into a tradition now of the new yor