welcome back. we ran out of time for "the ridiculist." sorry about that. that does it for us. appreciate you watching, up next the movie we were talking about, the flag, one of the great untold stories of the september untold stories of the september 11th attack s -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com one, two. >> one, two. >> there you go. >> let's go. >> all the brothers stepped up. got donations. put it together. it was just supposed to be for 2002 to show new york city what 343 firefighters looked like and it turned into a tradition now of the new york city fire

department. we're rear every year to remember the brothers we lost in 2011. a very nice tribute, very simple and impactful. the ball breaker, you guys realize -- look at this, turn around. >> richy, good point. >> you realize what these guys are going to do to me after this. that's four years of material. i'll get my balls broke about this. it's just not something we do, but i know this is a good thing, so that's why i don't mind talking about it. >> we appreciate your sacrifice. >> you have no idea what the sacrifice truly is.

on a day when close to 3,000 people were killed in three cities, a lot of myth has come up afterwards what really happened but in fact, we have a record of what happened. never before had so many people had so many cameras in one place to document one event. there were thousands and thousands of pictures taken that day of death, of destruction, of one picture that day emerged that gave us the sort of sense of hope and it was three firemen raising a flag at 3:00 in the afternoon. when americans saw this image, everything from coffee cups to statutes to tattoos, to ticket stubs, it was the most reproduced image of this ma lynn yum. >> it was all over, everywhere you turn. >> they still raise it up even though it's half cut and half burnt. some of it was still damaged but

they put it up, even though it's still damaged here rising to the top. >> it was in the "herold" the local newspaper. >> i've seen that picture everywhere. >> this picture became how we said patriotism post 9/11. >> good job. >> oddly enough, the flag in this famous picture really was a flag that came from the back of a yacht. >> we had our office in the world trade center on the 89th floor of world trade center one, which was the first building hit. we lived on chambers street about two blocks away from the world trade center. our apartment faced the world trade center so we actually could see the planes going into the building and our boats were right outside the world financial center, which is attached to the world trade center. >> near the end of the day the firefighter named dan mcwilliams

saw a flag on the star of america, climbed up and took the flag and the pole off and fell in line with a friend of his, george johnson, another firefighter, and a third firefighter billy izengrind. >> the crew that passed away told us right away this was our flag. he told us that same day. he said, you know, by the time he got to the boat they had taken the flag, and he went over to ground zero and saw our flag pole and the flag they raised. >> this is our pole. >> the pole was right there. >> they took the pole and they actually transfer the flag into another pole, larger one. >> so we knew right away it was our flag, and it was there. we just didn't do anything about it. our whole life was downtown. we actually met in the world trade center in 1975. you know, we lived on chambers street. we would walk down by the river and go to the office, and it was just very pretty, and then

anything you needed was in the building and you could go to lunch, you could go to dinner, you could walk home afterwards and it was very simple. you know, it's -- it's sad every time i think about how nice life was then. >> in new york, this flag had found a new home. it was hoisted by firemen over the world trade center rubble september 11th just hours after the twin towers were destroyed by terrorist, a few blocks away it was raised over city hall. it's thrown over seven military ships including the uss theodore roosevelt which recently returned from duty near afghanistan. >> while the flag was the center piece of the famous photograph, the flag itself became something on an artifact, an icon as well. >> it was supposed to be donated to the smithsonian, and we were negotiating the terms and just

how to put the name of the boat and just simple stuff with our attorney to do it. >> about a year after 9/11, the yacht owners asked for the flag back for a little ceremony on their boat and of course they compiled and thought this was a good idea and gave it to them. >> when we got the flag, we were quite stunned it was the wrong flag. this flag could wrap around us and we said this is not a 5-foot flag because this wraps around the two of us, and we're not the thinnest people on earth and it still wraps around us. so we knew right away it was the wrong flag. >> this is another flag that somehow became substituted for the original flag. where is the original flag? and they went back to the mayor's office. >> but the city never called. they never did anything. and they don't seem to care. they are very happy to make it sound like the flag is here, and it's this big flag and this is the flag and that big flag has everybody's signature on it. so they are quite happy to say

this is the flag and leave it alone like that. >> to this day, no one knows what happened to that flag. >> this flag is one of the fire departments. >> smithsonian or something. >> it deserves to be up in the sky. >> i thought it would be in the museum and relics they collected in the museum. >> this is the icon of the sanctuary, this flag, and it is not any excuse for anybody not to try to find the flag. >> by then, rudy giuliani passed the torch to mayor bloomberg. >> and when new york times, they went and they asked him, mr. mayor, what happens to the flag? answer was -- >> no, i don't know where ocsam bid laden is, either. >> i believe if giuliani was the

mayor, giuliani would have found it. >> my goodness. that was quite a picture. >> do you remember the first time you saw that picture? >> i do. i probably saw it -- somebody probably showed this to me sometime on the 11th or 12th in the paper. whoever thought of taking it exactly that time or the firefighters in doing it perform add tremendous service for the country.

my recollection is that he was on the jersey side. >> on the jersey side. >> and used a tell la photo lens to capture that image. >> a photographer from the paper. >> yes, yes. >> that's possible. >> there is a story about that image. it was taken by tom franklin who was a photographer for the record who happened to be there, i guess he was actually down to i think 30 frames left in his camera but there at that moment when they hoisted the flag and he shot it. >> tom's photo comes in and rich says you got to see this, you got to see this. >> that popped out because of the flag, all the pictures, whoever sent them. everything had this bluish blew

tent to it and there you saw the red, white and blue and automatically double click it and opened it up. i sat there and i said that's an incredible picture and daniel was standing behind me and said, that's not a picture, it's an icon. >> if you look at tom's strip, they were okay but there was one in the icon picture. you can be in this business your whole life. you get one picture in your whole lifetime, just one. i got to be honest, that image looks like joe ro's image. it was almost the same setup and i think that's what really made it happen. millions of people right away, able to associate that image because they have seen that image once before. >> obviously, it's a similar setup but never streak me that way and was -- did he set that up? >> well, there is two original

flags. there is a small one that they put up first and general howl and smith looked up and said not big enough, and in true marine corps fashion he ordered another outfit to raise a flag that would be more visible and the second flag raising joe rose thol took it. it was not planned, staged, guys doing their job and happy to be doing it. it was a lucky shot, but what a great shot and what a great piece of art. >> a single photograph told a story, born of battle it fired the imagination for it expressed the unty, drive and determination of the people, a symbol of american courage. >> before 9/11, the biggest selling issue on the news stand of news week and history had been the week that princess dianna died, particularly a big

historic moment, people not only buy more but keep them. when we saw the three firefighters hoisting the flag at ground zero i said that would be great and god bless america, i would imagine people saying i'm going to keep this, i'm going to keep this and show my children and grandchildren what happened on this day and how we bounced back. it dwarfed any previous cover of "news week" in spite of sells despite the fact people had seen the image everywhere else. >> the firefighters have never spoken. they let the picture speak for themselves. the only time they give interviews is for print media and very rarely allowed a camera in their lives. they think in terms of we, not me. >> that's what all firefighters are like. to see these three firefighters do it, said to me this reflects all 11,000. this is all 11,000 would feel the same way. >> for the photographer who took

the picture, tom franklin who is sort of a bittersweet thing, he became famous for taking this image for capturing a moment, and yet, it wasn't his. it was the burgen county record who had the copyright, apropertiuated for all these different uses for all these different people. >> i received more attention than i ever dreamed, and it's been overwhelming, and we've had thousands of tophone calls at t office for people want to buy pictures and publications and billboards and people want to make tapistries. it makes me feel uncomfortable. i appreciate the recognition but it's been a little uncomfortable. >> it became something that people clutched to their breast, this was my flag raising picture. this is how people perceived it. >> everywhere today, there were the flags. >> and we said earlier 8,0 8,00

flag haves been bought. >> people are sending a message of solidarity in red, white and blue. >> a rally to show patriotism turned ugly. >> they don't deserve to be in our country. they shouldn't be here. >> that's why it's more than just a flag and always will be. >> it was a very, very challenging time for this industry. i've never seen a demand lick that. desert storm the demand was great, but 9/11 was a whole another level, a whole another level. >> there was just a tremendous surge. we just were flooded, fax, e-mail, phone, it came from every direction. there were people at our doorstep. everyone wants a u.s. flag. so we were up to our eyeballs in stars and stripes at that time. stars stripes and blue fields.

>> mr. reader was low key so shared the information with us and said, you know, that was an eder flag and proud it was one of our flags and completed what that picture was about. >> i see the rebuilding starting with that photograph. that was the moment on which these three firefighters speaking for all new yorkers and americans said enough is enough. we're going to fight back. i think it gave me all those emotions because it's so eerie similar. here they are three new york city firefighters, no marines, not soldiers but in a way they were like marines and soldiers because they were the first line of defense we had against this invasion, attack. >> can you talk about the loss of the fire department? >> we've got over 300 people that are missing that we can't

account for. we believe that many of -- many of them are gone. it just a devastating thing. i don't know -- the fire department will recover but i don't know how. >> when we lost those guys, for me, i felt like the father that had just lost so many children. these guys are told get out of the building, get out of the building, the south tower fell. get out of the building. okay, boss but i can't. right now i'm helping so and so. you know, it's like -- it's not like dropping the lady and terrancing out, that's the first concern is someone else. that's really what bravery is about, you know, in my opinion anywa

anyway. >> shortly after 9/11, maybe two days later, a weirdly like immediate thing, a call where i'm told hey, go to the -- i want you to go to the fire department tomorrow morning. we put up some money for a memorial to the firefighters that have been lost and we want you to this emotion, this memorial to be ready before giuliani leaves use. we need to recognize our heroes. no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay -- you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it

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the fire department wanted us to make a sculpture and i was delighted because it meant a job but at the same time 343 firefighters died. i don't think there was anything we wouldn't have done in that moment to do something, but when i saw the ping tocture i was disappointed because i thought it was so obvious this is the remark. >> this is the original sculpture of the flag raising created by felix while the battle was still going on, and he completed the original of this. >> 48 hours after the photograph had reached the united states, but this was on the first of many. >> yes, this was made, you know, somebody said are we going to do this and one of the guys sat down and cut it out of a piece of wood. >> maybe ten bdays later i'm lie

when can i meet the guys? they are like we're not using those guys. the guys, the three guys, right? we need the three guys because it's real. >> they couldn't have handled themselves any better. they just couldn't have done a better job. they were just three solid guys, who just did a great job. i've never talked to them about it. >> there was kind of something slightly wrong about the whole story. we're at this meeting. someone had suggested that there should be more ethnically representative. >> and they came back to us and said we'll have one hispanic, one black and one white guy so we're off. we staged the photo shoot and made a presentation to the fire chief. >> when i saw it, i said that doesn't look like the guys. that's not the guys that raised the flag. >> i was like i, i, i, you know, it's going to be a problem. like, if i was the guy putting

the flag up, i would have a problem if i saw a statute and it wasn't me, then it went horribly wrong. >> they were raising the flag simply because they knew it was the right thing to do and we will continue to honor them forever. >> i ignored that day together. i came home and my wife said oh my god, you better see this on every channel. it was like horror. >> hundreds of firefighters petitioned against changing the ethnicities on the statute saying it's an alteration of history. >> it was like every news channel. >> i started to receive what clearly was a campaign orchestrated by i suppose, i don't know, the firefighters union. >> they were terrorized. >> i think some of it was justified. if you're given an image and the

image becomes so iconic, then changing the image ultimately is -- there will be a cost. >> and of course, that was the issue that killed the project. the people that owned the copyright said we'll sue you. >> they made it too close to the statute and too different. >> that's the problem with reality, right? it's too specific. >> it's this or it's this, but it can't be both of them. >> when the commission statute was first revealed, you got to imagine what is going on around this time. they are still looking further for those buried beneath the rubble and looking for so many people lost, 3,000, and that was the environment in which this sort of came up. >> and it became contested very, very quickly, no? even to the point of who had access to the site, who didn't have access to the site, you know. fighting breaking out. >> quickly things got out of hand as hundreds of firefighters

stormed barricades surrounding ground zero. police say they were prepared for a peaceful demonstration because of a plan to reduced and the number of rescuers at ground zero but the firefighters' behavior today is unacceptable. >> you can't hit police officers. you can't disobey the law. >> in the meantime, this like heroes, you know, like first responders, all of that stuff was rising. ♪ ♪ >> these images, particularly this one had become a call to arms in someway. >> we once again, find ourselves in trying times as the nation we've been tested but america has gotten up. america always gets up. so many americans before us

fought, fought for freedom and with that freedom our past time has grown into our present time. >> we know who the real heroes are. >> now the world series -- >> i remember seeing that and thinking to myself this was not going to be one of those stories where you could in any way feel a sense of objectivity. you were totally invested in that moment and what was happening watching that flag go back up. whatever boat was leaving, we wanted to be on it. when the roosevelt launched it's first air strikes, the flag from ground zero at the world trade center disaster flapped in the foreground. it's become a symbol of american resistance and resolve. >> that ship launched most of the aircraft during the initial air campaign against afghanistan. >> one, two, three, one more real quick. >> everyone who touches the flag has an experience, perhaps they

mourn for the souls lost or the innocence we'll never have again. >> i wish i was in the front and had a rifle right now and could take care of business. >> i'm told that's why the flag flies on the t.r. it was new york city's way of saying take care of business. [ applause ] >> in the waters near pakistan, barbara sierra, news channel 3. l to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one.

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why did the navy ask for the flag to begin with? we're not really sure of why that happened. >> the flag, whether bet see ross knitting a flag or 9/11, it's always a flag because that's what unites us. there is no self-pity in that picture. someone said a plane hit the world trade center, the deputy mayor of washington called and rudy said i want you up here. i jumped in a car and drove straight to new york. i was on the phone most of the way, and i was having trouble hearing rudy, so i pulled over.

i pulled over to hear him, and it's this beautiful sunny day, and i'm watching this person in their flower garden on their hands and knees having a good time in their garden and on the phone rudy is screaming there are people jumping, and at that point i ran back to city hall, and i called. >> because of numerous fleet weeks, the deputy had the fleets phone number with him and he called up and said i need help. >> and i said, you know, tell me that more planes out here, i said i don't know where they are. i said i need some air protection here. >> he said can you provide air cover? i said well, you know, this is really a mission for the north american air defense command, norad. >> he said rudy, i have to go to

norad. i can't throw fighters in your air space. i have to speak to the president. i'm pressuring him. >> he said i don't know how to get in touch with norad. he says call me back in 10 or 15 minutes. >> i had the staff to call out to naval air station where we have our fighters based and told them to arm some of the fighters with side winder missiles. >> admiral is telling me he's waiting for clearance. >> i'm asking for where we're getting the aircraft launch i'm told about this peacetime restriction and i said ignore the peacetime restrictions, load them and launch the aircraft. send them out there and then we'll try and figure out who is in command. >> and as i'm talking to the admiral and his words are rudy, rudy, i got the clearance coming to your air space, the building

starts to shake and the phone goes dead. as i make it to the front door to try to assist the people that was trapped in the parking lot in the plume, the fighter jets drop in. but that set off another round of panic on the street. >> cpr. >> from the civil war until 9/11 you were under it and the military did not support domestic events in any way. to release jets to support your city under attack is kind of unprecedented. >> which is really what the navy is all about and that is the ability to respond very quickly without a lot of instruction from, you know, higher ups.

♪ ♪ >> there was a prayer for america. i insisted admiral, because he was my partner from ten minutes in to the end, i insisted that he be in the program. >> admiral robert natter. >> these images of our history are now joined for eternity with the actions of three new york city firemen determined to erect a flagstaff and hoist our colors over the rubble that was the world trade center. >> michael brady, bob natter do you have a minute? >> i sure do. >> okay. i got you on speaker phone and we've got some questions with respect to the flag.

you remember under the stadium before the ceremony that you came over and said hey, they would like you to sign the flag and i said i didn't think it was appropriate for me to sign it. >> right. >> that flag. what -- do you -- the interest is where did the flag come from, how did it get on the roosevelt. >> yes, sir, i'm trying to -- i'm trying to remember -- >> i remember governor and mayor giuliani signed it. >> i know it came from the mayor's office and we were -- we were under assumption it was that flag that was in that iconic photo. we weren't real sure but that's what the mayor's office had told us at the time. >> that's not the flag that they raised on 9/11. the flag that went to the yankee stadium or it was on the ship could not have been the flag that was in the photograph. >> want me to ask my brother?

he was one of my drivers. he's the guy that told me there was going to be a disaster with the statute. he was the one that told me. i didn't get it. so listen, part of the story they are working on the flag rising right from those three guys put the flag up and everything. the guy is saying to me that he has heard and has no idea or the accuracy of it that you asked for the flag, is that the -- >> correct. >> that's correct? tell that story again. >> you came to me, the commissioner came to me and said i want to get that flag down there. we looked at each other and said that will be a problem because we know the way firemen can be very process sieve about things and we didn't know whether or not that flag they would be happy to give that flag up to the navy or to the president or to anybody. so what we did was we sent the guys from the press office down there. his name was also gerard.

i can't remember his last name. we sent him down there to get the flag. he came back, he had the flag. he said this is the flag. we brought it over to the mayor and they sent it out to aircraft carrier. >> and then we flew it out to the carrier? >> we were -- yes, sir, but we made -- it was a lot of accountability there, obviously. we made sure we knew the name and rank and the identity of the person who would have constant custody of the thing on it's way over. we were afraid it would get lost. >> yeah. >> and somebody would say they just don't know where it is anymore. >> so you think the navy switched flags or you think they never got the right flag? >> the battle group got it around to several other ships in the battle group, had them trfl it and get back to the carrier. there was some concern with the accountability aspect is it didn't disappear, but -- >> i think we have better control of that than we did nuclear weapons.

[ laughter ] >> that's a joke. >> nobody wants to go back and say we don't know where the flag is so i think -- no, we took care of that part of it.

how big does that flag look to you? >> if you look at the proportions of the gentleman's arm in the picture to the flag to the field alone, it's larger than a 3 x 5. i would say the smallest it would be would be a 5 x 8. >> yeah, that's not the same flag. it doesn't look like it. >> you know, it's -- at the time it was not a big event. it was, you know, let's get the flag and make sure it's out on the ships that are doing the strikes. >> that flag brought up emotion that is very difficult to describe. i had never seen so many grown men and women cry just by touching a piece of fabric, and of course, it wasn't just a piece of fabric, was it? >> gets me emotional. >> american pride runs deep through this ship and the flag

has become the glue that binds it. >> see it on tv but it doesn't really mean -- it just makes what you do so much more -- wow, meaningful. >> it makes everything come together. makes it all worth it. >> christopher finds comfort in the flag. >> it's an important symbolism because what else, what else are you going to hold as the symbol? you can't say that oh, it's pain or it's retribution or this or that. it's the american flag. that's what we all, like in my remarks, you know, tomorrow morning it's going to be raised all over the country. >> al be darn. what is rudy's recollection of this flag? >> this was the second sunday after september 11, at yankee

stadium. i remember the event very, very well. yeah, there is joe loda, senator schumer, sunny mundel. >> there is only one picture with it, also. >> i mean, do you remember who i gave the flag to after that? i don't. i don't. i don't. >> it seems like it's an awful lot of material he's holding. this is a 3 x 5. if you compare the bulk of that material to this, it -- it's definitely a larger flag. you know, we're used to carrying around a 3 x 5. i can pull out any flag off the shelf and know is this a 2 x 3, 3 x 5 just by holding it. i could have my eyes closed, the weight of it. when you get used to dealing with flags every day, you know. you don't have to look at the tag or the label, you just know that it's that size by the weight of it. it will vary a little bit, but

not very much. >> and welcome back to the uss theodore roosevelt on september 11th on the afternoon of the attacks against america, three firefighters in new york city raised a flag on a pole in the debris of what was the world trade center. it was an emotional photograph that was captured and became famous and compared to the photograph of the raising of the flag on another. the new york congressional delegation and they are going to receive that flag back. >> they got the replacement flag. so the flag that went all over was not that flag. >> i will never forget the smoky odor as the flag was unwrapped in my office. this flag flew high over the ship and pointed the way to afghanistan. tomorrow uss theodore roosevelt returns home. for now, our mission is complete but the fight against terrorism

continues. this flag, which has flown over seven ships is ready to be returned to the city ♪ >> they brought it back. we had a big ceremony. there are people that still swear that is not the flag. >> somewhere between 9/11 and the yankees stadium ceremony, the flag went missing. >> how can a flag just disappear off the face of the earth? we've heard all kinds of strange stories, like somebody cut it up and was selling pieces of it. but i don't think that's true. >> we had a kickoff event last year in front of the star spangled banner at the smithsonian. oddly enough, pieces of that flag have been cut off and sent

to veterans to be buried with it. i'm glad they stopped it and saved the flag. that's much less objectionable than selling it. >> i just think somebody has it and they're not coming forward. >> after that picture was taken, the flag could have been taken down that night. >> i believe it went missing from ground zero within the first ten days. my guess is someone looked at it and said this is a very small flag in a very big space. let's hang a bigger flag. i don't know what happened to it after that. >> also, when we catch a moment in video that's amazing, we've also seen what happened just before it and off times what happens after it. where a still photo leaves more up to our imagination. when you see that moment frozen, you have to ask what did they

just experience before that moment? ♪ >> it looked like the reverse of "the wizard of oz." in the "wizard of oz," it's black and white and when you get to oz it's color. it was just the darkest, gloomiest, paper flying, and i'm thinking where am i? what country am i in? am i watching tv? i'm like no, i'm 45 minutes from my house in budlick, new jersey.

>> it's 81 degrees at 12:30. if you're at home and you get bad news, you start to do things, you know, you find out someone dies, you start to make chicken soup. you start to make dinner. you start to do something to keep yourself busy, to keep yourself occupied and looking down at these guys, i think that's what they were trying to do. they were just keeping themselves occupieoccupied. you can hear the emergency alarms going off, that constant chirping. and it just keeps going and going and going. and that's the first time that it hit me that there might actually be fatalities of firefighters. there's a line of ambulances, about 15 or 20 ambulances lined up down the other side of west

street that you can get through. all the doors are open on the ambulances. all the stretchers are gone out of the back. and that's it. >> it was really no -- >> i should have followed him. i could have got that famous shot.

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the first pictures i remember shooting were kind of like the fingers of the outside of the building poking through the smoke. and then getting in closer to it and looking down and seeing like a child's doll on the ground, shooting a few pictures of that. then seeing a few firefighters who had just gotten on the

scene. they didn't even know what to do. they were just standing there looking at this pile. they didn't have all the equipment yet, and there was this weird feeling of inaction when everybody wanted to be doing something. i felt very much that these men who were standing on the pile were looking for their family, brothers looking for lost brothers. i think that to me is why the photographs of firefighters are so powerful because that's a representative, a projection of our nation at the moment, what we wanted to think of ourselves doing. i think the images probably worked in concert with the national mood, you know, those firefighters really were looking for each other. however long that lasted, 72 hours, a week, i think those photographs, that imagery contributed to sort of a feeling

that we were like those firefighters for that moment. >> we headed down along the waterfront near the marina. i looked and there were a group of firefighters carrying somebody on a stretcher. as they were walking, they were kicking up the debris. so you had these billows of white ash. as they pass me, i saw that it was another firefighter. and they carried him down toward the -- where some yachts and other boats were, and sort of down a gangway. >> this is the image here. >> yeah, yeah, that tower flag.

>> you see the rescue boats there. >> and i went down to photograph them loading the wounded firefighter onto one of the boats, and he survived, thankfully. and he contacted me later asking if i could share some of my photographs so that he could try to piece together what happened to him that day, because he didn't remember. >> on my walk, i kept asking people for film. so i went around and then i was at the sailing club where all the boats are docked. that's when i saw this guy who was apparently freelancing for "the new york times." he gave me a roll of film and he turned and and we saw these firefighters take a flag off a boat. >> it was a flag from a boat that was down at the yacht club.

we were taking a break down at the yacht club. one of the guys said hey, lou, is it all right if i get that flag? i said yeah, sure, go get the flag. no idea what he was going to do with it. but he went and got the flag. >> i guess i saw the firefighters starting to walk, you know. it's like they were going around and i was going in. by the time i got in, they were coming. and i found a window, and i positioned myself at the window. and i only had like 19 frames yet and no more film. and i was on the phone with robert pledge from contact. and then i saw the firefighters come and i said i've got to go and i hung up on him. >> i came in from west street, and that's where the overpass was. they were pulling equipment out. but the reason we stopped there was it was a bunch of firemen hanging out. we were talking to them, trying to find out where they were taking people, what hospitals

they were taking people to. we were looking for three other guys from my unit who were missing. scott, john and glenn. they had just pulled a fire truck out from the rubble. actually drove it out and they cleared a path and we walked into the back. that's where the other photographers were. a fireman motioned that there was something going on on the corner and we looked and the fireman were raising the flag. >> i was right over them, and i don't think the firefighters were aware of me. they were just doing what they were doing. these guys needed to do this for themselves. i think that's what it was about. they started to raise the flag and there wasn't much wind, so i'm really saving my last few frames.

and, you know, finally the wind comes and i get a picture of the flag flying and i think the back ground had that like grayish blue sky and then this light just shining on it. >> i think at one point i almost got run over by a large tractor that was excavating material, and we really didn't think much of it then because we had so much other things going on. it was on the back burner. we never really gave it much thought. whatever footage we came back with that day, it went into a box and we didn't really think about it. we talked to some other guys there and we moved on. >> and then the firefighters came in and they said that buildings were collapsing. we had to get out. so we all left. and then building seven did fall. [ screams ]

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i've uncovered civil wars and civil unrest for 30 years. i remember thinking this is the first time when i was actually able to walk or take the elevator up to the roof of my building to cover the story. immediately after the second tower collapsed, we raced down to ground zero. i remember shooting from one world financial center and looking at this devastation and the firemen and the relief

workers, and there was this flag right below me, and i remember photographing it because it was there. to me, it was part of the scene out the window. but not particularly significant. i don't think i ever connected my flag picture with the flag in that other picture in the sense that i wasn't aware that this was to become an iconic picture. >> seeing this picture like over the years, i almost just assumed that it was right in the middle of the pile. like right in the middle of like right in the center. they could have been putting that up in front of me and i don't think it would have dawned on me that that was going to become such a symbol. at the time you weren't thinking about a flag. >> at the end of the day, the -- we found scott and john mullins was still down at the site. at the end of the day, we still

hadn't found glenn. >> we all thought that it would be like you see in the movies, you would have a piece of steel and someone be trapped under it and there would be some air coming in, some water dripping down and they would come out a week later. we all thought that was a possibility. but the experts told us the first night, which we never really told everybody at the time, because we didn't want to take away everyone's hope, they were right. there was no survivors. and it was overwhelming. and i can't even say that word overwhelming. ever since september 11, i've been unable to say the word overwhelming without getting a vision of a widow who came to one to have meetings, and i -- i stood up and i said we were overwhelmed that day. she jumped up and she said you were overwhelmed? i'm overwhelmed.

i have five children and my husband's gone. we failed in getting her husband back, and i'll always see that lady when i hear that word, overwhelmed. >> as the night went on and people were digging and guys moving in with cranes, trying to save people, there you are with this camera. you know, it took me a while -- i didn't want to do it at first. i felt like wow, i should be doing something better. there must be more i could do. >> approximately 2150 hours, at the scene of the world trade center, terrorist attack. >> when we first went there, we were coming from like the marina side i remember.

it's eerie thinking we were just shooting this video and nobody else came out alive after this. >> so what do you see now? >> there's no flag there. >> the moment we found that -- >> where is the flag?

a lot of firemen over there. the flag. it's gone. so it's gone the first day. it's gone within the first six hours. >> they always assumed that this happened after the picture was published. the picture was first published on the 12th in new jersey, and on the 13th in post." >> correct. >> so then the question is, who took it and why? >> i can't seeing anybody climbing out there and grabbing without somebody saying hey, what are you doing? >> it should be simple to see a flag if it's there. stars, stripes. somewhere in new york is something that matters. it's like when that guy found the picture of bill clinton

hugging monica lewinsky five years later. it's this delusion you tell yourself, i never throw away a negative. each now i can't delete any pictures off of my phone, which is terrible. sorry, i don't remember people grabbing a flag or something like that. >> that's where the boats are on this side. where did they raise the flag? i don't know. >> here in front of this building -- >> yeah. that's where i spent the night, in this building. >> that's the other flagpole from the boat. >> i didn't ever realize that was a flagpole. >> it's interesting these nurses were there. >> people came to help, i guess. >> so there were a lot of people standing around. >> totally. inside this lobby was other people. there was real action happening here, dudes lifting stuff up and blow torching all night.

>> it does surprise me it's not up there. my guess is someone saw it up there, maybe it was wrapped up and said let's get a better spot for this and put it on a fire truck or something. >> you're saying that flag was still at the site when he went to get it? >> so when the fire department sent the guy from the press office down to get the flag, they assumed it was still on the pole. but it had been gone for more than a week. he had no idea where to look for the flag. the only people in the fire department who really knew where the flag raising happened were the three firefighters. >> and why didn't anyone ask them? >> my guess is they got a flag, but they didn't get the flag. maybe no one knows what flag that is. >> what happened to the flag? >> i don't know what happened to

the flag. i think it's been all over the country. pin pointing where it went, couldn't tell you. >> they didn't connect the boat with this until like weeks later. when i was talking to that "new york times" guy, he saw them take the flag and he took a picture of it and i've never been able to figure out who he is. there's some hope that the flag will be found. i just can't believe anybody -- >> we're going to see this guy soon. >> who is he? >> we've just tracked him down. >> he's got a flag in his hand. do you think that's the flag? >> congratulations. did you know who is this guy? >> we've spent a long time with people trying to find him. >> it's difficult to know from his back. do you think it can be one of the three? >> it's a totally different firemen. it's not one of the three. >> to be honest, i'm not sure what day it was. it was shortly after 9/11, and

we had been down searching. we were completely exhausted. i remember there being so much media on the left side of west street and there was nobody to the right side of west street. the last thing you want at that point of your day is to have anybody filming you or taking pictures of you. so we wound up going to the right, which was a lot quieter. on the way, i wound up taking out the flag i had and taking a look at it. after a few steps, some photographer popped out of nowhere. i don't know where he came from. but he just started snapping and i took my flag and i held it up in the air and went back to walking back to the firehouse. >> you don't want to clean it, you know. there's memories in those ashes. it's meant to keep for a long time.

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i'd rather not know where it is. if you have the actual flag, i don't know, it's the cynic in me. people will want it. they put a price on it. then it becomes something else. >> the flag is sort of like the magical object in a way. it's like the torah scroll for the jews. it's a book. it's just physical. it doesn't have any meaning to it. but everybody embus it, it has a holiness. a torah scroll, when you pass it, you have to kiss it. when you see it, it's like a flag. it's an inanimate object that because of our culture, because of who we are, becomes something greater. >> let's just consider what old glory is. >> it stirs a different sense in

all of us. i think there's one meaning of the flag but many interpretations. each of us can have a personal connection with that symbol. >> we're not a country based on religion or ethnicity or even cultural heritage. we're a country based on ideas and a philosophy. and that's what the flag is. >> it makes us all feel united. it makes us feel like we're bigger than just ourselves. >> it's not until we're challenged that we reach back at what makes us americans, and what that is and what the symbol is, is the flag. >> if this flag were to be recovered, what should happen to

snit or does it matter? >> it would matter, it would matter. it would matter to me. >> i think it would matt tore the families who lost their loved ones. because it's a relic of the dead. >> what happened to these firemen and where are they? >> you know, i think they never wanted this attention in the first place. they never anticipated that this would become -- >> everybody's first reaction who is a hero is to say i'm not. >> my name is bill eesengrind. i'm the firefighter on the right. it was literally over in just a few minutes. we found a spot and raised the flag. the three of us looked at each other, we looked at the flag and that was that. it was kind of no big deal and i'm sure danny and george feel the same way. we just felt we had other things that needed to be accomplished right then.

there were thousands of missing people. that was our mission, to try to find them and bring them home. dealing with a picture on the front of the paper really didn't matter at that point. >> if you were remembered for something, what would you want to be remembered for? >> hmmm. i would just like to be remembered as one of the people down there that did what we did to bring these people home. you know, nobody in particular did anything more than the other guy. everybody did their part and we brought whomever we could home. ♪

>> we love you. thank you. ♪ ♪

one, two. >> one, two. >> there you go. cover down. >> let's go. >> all the brothers stepped up. we got some donations. we put it all together. it was just supposed to be for 2002 to show new york city what