welcome back. we ran out of time for "the ridiculist." sorry about that. that does it for us. appreciate you watching, up next the movie we were talking about, the flag, one of the great untold stories of the september untold stories of the september 11th attacks. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> one, two. >> there you go. >> let's go. >> all the brothers stepped up. got donations. put it together. it was just supposed to be for 2002 to show new york city what 343 firefighters looked like and it turned into a tradition now of the new york city fire department.

every year to remember the brothers we lost in 2011. a very nice tribute, very simple and impactful. the ball breaker, you guys realize -- look at this, turn around. >> richy, good point. >> you realize what these guys are going to do to me after this? that's four years of material. i'll get my balls broke about this. it's just not something we do, but i know this is a good thing, so that's why i don't mind talking about it. >> we appreciate your sacrifice. >> you have no idea what the sacrifice truly is. on a day when close to 3,000 people were killed in three cities, a lot of myth has come up afterwards what really

happened but in fact, we have a record of what happened. never before had so many people had so many cameras in one place to document one event. there were thousands and thousands of pictures taken that day of death, of destruction, of one picture that day emerged that gave us the sort of sense of hope and it was three firemen raising a flag at 3:00 in the afternoon. when americans saw this image, they began to plaster it on everything from coffee cups to statutes to tattoos, to ticket stubs, it was the most reproduce this image of the ma lynn yum.

>> it was all over, everywhere you turn. >> they still raise it up even though it's half cut and half burnt. some of it was still damaged but they put it up, even though it's still damaged here rising to the top. >> it was in the "harold" the local newspaper. >> i've seen that picture everywhere. >> this picture became how we said patriotism post 9/11. >> good job. oddly enough the flag in this famous picture was a flag that came from the back of a yacht. >> we had our office in the wots wts on the 89th floor of world trade center 1 which was the first building hit. we lived on chambers street, two blocks from the world trade center. our apartment faced world trade center so we could actually see the planes going in to the building and our boats were at north cove marina which were outside of the world financial center which is attached to the world trade center center. >> near the end of that devastating day, a firefighter named dan mcwilliams saw an american flag on the back of a

boat called "the star of america." he climbed up, took the flag and pole off and fell in line with a friend of his george johnson and billy eisengrind. >> unfortunately the one that passed away told us this was our flag. he said by the time they got to the boat they had taken thing in and the he went to ground zero and saw our flag pole and the flag they raised. >> the pole is there. >> they took the pole and transferred the flag in to another pole, larger one. >> so we knew right away it was our flag and it was. there we just didn't do anything about it. our whole life was downtown. we actually met in the world trade center in 19975. we lived on chambers street. we'd walk down by the river and go to the office and it was pretty anything you needed was in the

building. you could go to lunch. you could go to dinner, you could walk home afterwards. it was very simple. it's sad. every time i think of how nice life was then. >> in new york this flag has found a new home. it was hoisted by firemen over the world trade center rubble on september 11th hours after the twin towers were destroyed by terrorists. today, a few blocks away, it was raised over city hall. in between the flag has flown over seven military ships, including the uss theodore roosevelt which recently returned from duty from afghanistan. >> while the flag was the centerpiece of a famous photograph, the flag itself became something of an artifact, an icon, as well. >> it was supposed to be donated to the smithsonian. we were negotiating the terms and put the name of the boat,

simple stuff with our attorney to do it. >> about a year after 9/11, the yacht owners asked for the flag back for a little ceremony on their boat and of course theed if fdny and the city complied and gave it to them. >> when we got the flag we were stunned. this flag could wrap around us. we said this is not a five-foot flag because it wraps around the two of us and we are not the thinnest people on earth an it still wraps around us. we knew right away it is another flag. >> this flag somehow became substituted for the original flag. where's the original flal flag? they went back to the mayor's office. >> but the city never called or did anything. they don't seem to care. they are happy to make it sound like the flag is here and it's this big flag and this is the flag. that big flag has everybody's signature on it. so they are quite happy to say this is the flag and leave it alone like that.

>> to this day, no one knows what happened to that flag. >> this flag, is it at one of the fire departments. >> smithsonian or something, i don't know what happened to it. >> it deserves to be up in the sky, you know. >> i would think it would be in the museum in the relics they have collected for the museum. >> this is the icon of the century, this flag. there is not any excuse for anybody not to try to find the flag. >> by then, rudy giuliani had passed the torch to mayor bloomberg. >> when "new york times" they went and they asked him, mr. mayor, what happened to the flag? his answer was -- >> i don't know where osama bin laden is either. >> this is the new york city mayor. >> i believe if rudy giuliani was the mayor at the time.

giuliani would have found it. >> my goodness. that was quite a picture. >> do you remember the first time you saw it? >> i do. i probably saw it -- somebody probably showed this to me sometime on the 11th or 12th before it was in the paper. whoever actually thought of just taking it that time or the firefighters in doing it performed like a tremendous service to the country. farmers presents: fifteen seconds of smart.

so you want to drive more safely? stop eating. take deep breaths. avoid bad weather. [ whispers ] get eight hours. ♪ [ shouts over music ] turn it down! and, of course, talk to farmers. hi. hi. ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum, bum - bum - bum - bum ♪

we happened to subscribe to the newspaper that this photographer worked for.

which is "the bergen record". my recollection is that he was on the jersey side and used a lens to project that image. >> there is a story about that image. it was taken by tom franklin who was a photographer for the record, "the bergen record." who just happened to be there. i guess he was actually down to i think 30 frames left in his camera but there at that moment when they hoisted the flag and he shot it. tom's photo comes in and i remember rich, the photo editor brings me over and he says you have to see this. you have to see this and we huddled around the computer. he brings up this photo. >> that popped out because of the flag. all of the pictures, whoever sent them, everything had this grayish-blue tint to it and there you saw the red, white and

blue and you automatically double click it. it opened up and i sad there and i said that's an incredible picture and danielle was standing behind me an she said that's not a picture, that's an icon. >> if you look at tom's strip they are okay pictures but there is only one picture. you can be in this business but it looks like joe rosenthal's image. i have seen this image and statues and there was this connectiveness, almost the same set up. i they is what really made it happen. millions of people right away were able to associate that image because they have seen it once again. >> obviously it's a similar set jaup up, nefr /* /- -- set up but it never struck me that way. >> there are two original flags

of iwo jima. and general howell looked up a and said not big enough. in true marine corps fashion he ordered them to raise another flag that would be more visible. the second flag raising that joe rosenthal took the famous photograph of. it was not planned. it was not staged. it was guys doing their job and happy to be doing it. it was a lucky shot but what a great shot and what a great piece of art. >> single photograph told a story. born of battle, it fired the imagination of all america. for it expressed the unity, drive and determination of the people. a symbol of american courage. >> before 9/11, the biggest selling issue on the newsstand of "newsweek" in history had been the week that princess diana died, particularly at big

historic moments people not only buy big magazines but they keep them. when we saw the three firefighters hoisting the flag at ground zero i said that would be a good cover and combined with the line god bless america i could imagine people keeping this and showing their children and grandchildren what happened on this day and how we bounced back. it dwarfed any previous cover of 'nique neck in terms of newsstand sales despite people had seen the image every place else. >> the firefighters have never spoken. they have let the picture speak for themselves. the only time they have given interrues is for print media and very rarely allowed a camera in their lives. they think in terms of we, not me. >> that's what all firefighters are like. to see these three firefighters do it said to me this reflects all 11,000. this is all 11,000 would feel the same way. >> for the photographer that took the picture, tom franklin,

it is sort of a bittersweet thing. he became famous for taking this image, for capturing a moment and yet it wasn't his. it was the bergen county record who had the rights and proepuated for use by all of these people. >> i received more attention than i ever dreamed. it's been overwhelming. we have had thousands of phone calls at the office for people wanting to buy pictures and publish it and people want to make tapestrietapestries, billb. i appreciate the recognition but it has been a little uncomfortable. ♪ >> it became something that people clutch to their breast. this was my flag raising picture. this is how people perceived it. >> everywhere today, there were the flags. >> we said earlier, 88,000 flags have been bought. >> the american people are sending a message of solidarity

this week in red, white and blue. >> usa! usa! >> a rally billed as a show of patriotism the other night turned ugly. >> they don't deserve to be in our country. they shouldn't be here. >> it has been more than just a flag and always will be. it. >> was a very, very challenging time for this industry. i've never seen a demand like that. desert storm the demand was pretty great, but 9/11 was a whole other level. whole other level. >> there was a tremendous surge. we were just flooded. fax, e-mail, phone. it came from every direction. there were people at our doorstep. everyone wanted a u.s. flag. so we were up to our eyeballs in stars and stripes at that time. stars, stripes and blue field.

-- was pretty low key. shared the information with us and said that was -- a flag and proud it is one of our flags and completed what that picture was all about. >> i see the rebuilding starting with that photograph. that was the -- that was the moment on which these three firefighters speaking for all new yorkers and all americans said enough is enough. we're going to fight back. it gave me all of those emotions because it is so eerily similar to the flag raising in iwo jima and here they are three new york city firefighters, not marines, not soldiers but in a way they were like marines and soldiers because they were the first line of defense we had against this invasion, attack. >> tell me about the loss of the fire department. >> we have over 300 people that are missing that we can't

account for. we believe many of them are -- are -- it's devastating thing. i don't know. the fire department will recover but i don't know how. >> when we lost those guys, for me -- i felt like the father who had just lost so many children. these guys are told get out of the building. get out of the building. the south tower fell. get out of the building. okay, boss, but i can't. right now i'm helping so and so. it's like -- it's not like dropping the lady and getting out. the first concern is someone else. that's really what bravery is about, you know. my opinion any way. ♪ >> shortly after 9/11, maybe two

days later, but it was weirdly immediate thing i got a call where i'm told, hey, i want you to go to the fire department tomorrow morning. we put up some money for a memorial to the firefighters that have been lost. and we want you to put this in motion, we want this memorial to be ready before giuliani leaves office. we need to recognize our heros. [ male announcer ] not all toothbrushes are the same.

oral-b pro-health toothbrushes have crisscross bristles that remove up to 90% of hard to reach plaque. feel the difference. oral-b, trust the brand more dentists and hygienists use. oral-b. icaused by acid reflux disease, relieving heartburn, relief is at hand. for many, nexium provides 24-hour heartburn relief and may be available for just $18 a month. there is risk of bone fracture and low magnesium levels. side effects may include headache, abdominal pain, and diarrhea. if you have persistent diarrhea, contact your doctor right away. other serious stomach conditions may exist. don't take nexium if you take clopidogrel. relief is at hand for just $18 a month. talk to your doctor about nexium.

the fire department wanted us to make a sculpture and i was delighted because it meant a job. at the same time 343 firefighters died. i don't think there was anything in that moment that we wouldn't have 0 done to do something. when i saw the picture i was disappointed. i felt it so obvious this is the kind of remake of iwo jima. >> this is the original sculpture of the flag raising in iwo jima created by felix de welden while the battle was going on and he completed the original of this. >> 48 hours after the photograph had reached the united states but this was only the first of many models. >> yes, this is made -- somebody said we are going to do this and one of the guys sat down and cut it out of a piece of wood. >> ten days later, i'm like when can i meet the guys? they are like, well, we are not

using those guys. i'm like three guys, right? we need the three guys because it's real. >> they couldn't have handled themselves any better. they just couldn't have done a better job. they were just three solid guys who just did a great job. i've never talked to them about it. >> there was clearly something slightly wrong about the whole story. we had this meeting. someone had suggested there should be more ethnically represented. >> they came back to us and said we will have one hispanic, one black and one white guy. so we were off. we staged the photo shoot and made a presentation to the fire chiefs. >> when i saw it, i said that doesn't look like those guys. that's not the guys that raised the flag. >> i was like, aye, aye, aye. like if i was the guy that put

the flag up, i would have a problem if i saw a statue and it wasn't me. it would have went horribly wrong. >> they were raising the flag simply because they knew it was the right thing to do. and we will continue to honor them forever. >> i came home to my wife and said, oh, my god you better see this. on every channel. it was horror. >> hundreds of firefighters petitioned against changing ethnicities on the statue. saying it is an alteration of history. >> every was every news channel. >> i started to receive what clearly was a campaign orchestrated by, i suppose -- i don't know the firefighters union. >> they were terrorized. >> i think some of it was justified. if you are given an image and the image becomes so iconic and

changing the image ultimately there will be a cost. of course that was the issue that finally killed the project. the people that owned the copy right said we are going to sue you. >> i think the mistake is they made it too close to that statue and then made it too different. >> that's the problem with reality. it is actually quite specific. it is this or this but can't be both of them. >> when the commission statue was first revealed you have to imagine what is going on at this time, they are still looking for their brethren buried beneath the rubble, looking for so many people lost, 3,000. and that was the environment in which this sort of came up. it. >> came contested very, very quickly, you know. even to the point of who had access to the site. who didn't have access to the site. fighting breaking out. >> quickly things got out of hand as hundreds of firefighters stormed barricades surrounding

ground zero. police say they were prepared for a peaceful demonstration by the firefighters union because of a plan to reduce the number of rescuers at ground zero. but the mayor says the firefighters' behavior is unacceptable. >> you can't hit police officers. you can't disobey the. >> in the meantime it is heros first responders, all of that stuff was rising. these images, particularly this one, had become a call to arms in some ways. >> we once again find ourselves in trying times. as a nation we have been tested, but america has gotten up, america always gets up. so many americans before us

fought, fought for freedom and with that freedom our pasttime has grown in to our present time. >> i remember seeing that and thinking to myself, this was not going to be one of those stories where you could feel a sense of objectivity. you were totally invested in that moment and what was happening, watching that flag go back up. whatever boat was leaving, we wanted to be on it. when the roosevelt launched its first air strike, thing in from ground zero at the world trade center disaster flapped in the foreground. it has become a symbol of american resistance and resolve. that ship is the one that launched most of the aircraft during the initial air campaign against afghanistan. >> one, two, three. one more real quick. >> everyone who touches the flag has an experience. perhaps they mourn for the souls

who are lost or the innocence we will never have again. >> i wish i wasn't a front. i wish i had a rifle and were taking care of business. >> i'm told that's why the flag flies on the tr. it is new york city's way of saying, take care of business. in the waters near pakistan, barbara sierra, news channel 3. h as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one.

humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

[ chainsaw buzzing ] humans. sometimes, life trips us up. sometimes, we trip ourselves up. and although the mistakes may seem to just keep coming at you, so do the solutions. like multi-policy discounts from liberty mutual insurance. save up to 10% just for combining your auto and home insurance. call liberty mutual insurance at... to speak with an insurance expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married, move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. personalized coverage and savings -- all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy?

>> why did the navy ask for the flag to begin with? we're not sure why it happened. >> whether it is bet cy ross knitting the flag or whether it is iwo jima or 9/11. it is always the flag because that's what units us. there is no self pity in that picture. someone said a plane hit the world trade center, the deputy mayor called, rudy said i want you up here and i jumped in the car and drove straight to new york. on the phone most of the way. i was having trouble hearing rudy. so i pulled over. i pulled over to hear him and

it's this beautiful, sunny day. i'm watching this person and their absolutely immaculate flower garden on their hands and knees having a good time and the phone really screamed and people jumping. at that point, i ran back to city hall. and i call -- >> he had the admiral's number with him and he called and said i need help. >> i said you tell me there are more planes out here. i said i don't know where they are. i need some air protection here. >> he said can you provide air cover? i said, well, this is really a mission for north american air defense command norad. >> he said rudy, i have to go to norad. i can't throw fighters in our

air space. i have to talk to the president and i'm pressuring him. >> and he said, i don't know how to get in touch with norad. i said let me try to get ahold of them. >> he said call me back in 10, 15 minutes. >> i had the staff call out to naval air station ocean that where we have our fighters based and told them to arm some of the fighters with side winder missiles. >> admiral is telling me that he is waiting on clearance from norad. >> when i asked for an update on where we were with getting the aircraft launched, i was told about this peacetime restriction and i said ignore peacetime restrictions. load them and launch the aircraft. send them out there and we will try to figure out -- >> i'm talking to the admiral and his words are really, really, i got the clearance to come in to your air space. the building starts to shake and the phone goes dead.

as i make it to the front door to try to assist the people that was trapped in the plume, the fighters just drop in. but that set off another round of panic on the street. >> from the civil war until nine everyone under up possi comentadus and the military did not release jets to support your own city under attack is unprecedented. >> which is really what the navy is all about. that is the ability to respond very quickly without a lot of instruction from, you know, higher ups.

♪ ♪ all through the night ♪ that our flag was still there ♪ ♪ >> i also did the prayer for america. i insisted that admiral natter because he was my partner from ten minutes in until the en, i insisted he be in the program. >> admiral robert natter. >> these images of our history are joined for eternity. with the actions of three new york city firemen determined to erect a flagstaff and hoist our colors over the rubble that was the world trade center. >> michael brady, bob natter. how are you doing? do you have a minute? >> i sure do. >> i have you on speakerphone. we have some questions about the

flag. remember after the ceremony i said i'd like you to sign the flag and i said i didn't think it was appropriate for me to sign it. >> right. >> that flag. the interest is where did the flag come from? how did it get on the roosevelt? >> yes, sir. i'm trying to remember the -- >> i remember governor pataki and mayor giuliani had signed it. >> i know it came from the mayor's office and we were -- we were under assumption it was that flag that was in that iconic photo. we weren't real sure but that's what the mayor's office told us at the time. >> that's not the flag that they raised on 9/11. the flag that went to the yankees stadium before it was on the ship could not have been the flag in the photograph. >> want me to ask my brother? he was one of my drivers.

he's the guy that told me it was going to be a disaster with the statue. he's the one that told me. i didn't get it. listen, part of the story, they are working on the flag raising from these those three guys that put the flag up and everything. the guy's saying to me -- he's heard. he has no idea the accuracy of it, that you asked for the flag. >> that's correct? >> that's correct? tell that story again. >> you came to me, the commissioner came to me and said i want to get that flag down. we all looked at each other and said this is going to be a problem because we know the fireman can be possessive about things and we didn't know if they were going to be happy to give that flag up. even to the navy or to the president or anybody. so what we did was, we sent someone from the press office down there. his name was also gerard. i can't remember his last name.

we sent him down there to get the flag. he came back. he had the flag. he said this is the flag. we brought it to the mayor and they sent it out to the aircraft carrier. >> then we flew it out to the carrier? >> we were -- yes, sir. but we made -- there was a lot of accountability. obviously we made sure we knew the name and rank and the identity of the person who had constant custody of the thing on the way over. we were afraid it was going to get lost and somebody would say they don't know where it is anymore. >> do you think the navy switched flags? or do you think they never got the right flag? >> the battle group got it to several other ships in the battle group had them fly it and get back to the carrier. i remember there was some concern with the accountability aspect of it, making sure it didn't disappear. >> i think we have better control over that than we did nuclear weapons. that's a joke.

>> no one wants to come back and say we don't know where the flag is. no, we took care of that part of it. ♪

[ female announcer ] pop in a whole new kind of clean with tide pods. three chambers. three times the stain removal power. pop in. stand out.

so you want to drive moretimes safely? of smart.moval power. stop eating. take deep breaths. avoid bad weather. [ whispers ] get eight hours. ♪ [ shouts over music ] turn it down! and, of course, talk to farmers. hi. hi. ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum, bum - bum - bum - bum ♪

how big did that flag look

to you? >> if you look at the proportions of the gentleman's arm in the middle of the flag to the field alone, it's larger than a 3x5. i would say the smallest it would be would be a 5x8. >> yeah, that's not the same flag. doesn't look like it. at the time, it was not a big event. it was let's get the flag and make sure it is out on the ships doing the strikes. >> that flag brought up emotion that is very difficult to describe. i'd never seen so many grown men and women cry just by touching a piece of fabric. of course it wasn't just a piece of fabric, was it? >> gets me emotional. >> american pride runs deep through this ship and the flag has become the glue that binds

it. >> see it on tv but it doesn't mean -- it just makes what you are doing so much more. wow, meaningful. it makes everything come together for you. it makes it all worth it. >> find comfort in the flag. >> it is important symbolism. because what else, what else are you going to hold as the symbol? you can't say that oh, it's pain or its retribution or this or that. it's the american flag. that's what we all -- like in my remarks, tomorrow morning it's going to be raised all over the country. i'll be darn. what's rudy's recollection of this flag? >> this was the second sunday after september 11th at yankees stadium. i remember the event very, very

well. there's votto, senator schumer, sunny. >> there's only one picture also. >> i do remember who i gave the flag to after that? i don't. i don't. i don't. >> it seems like it's an awful lot of material he's holding. this is a 3x5. if you compare the bulk of that material to this, it's definitely a larger flag. we're used to carrying around a 3x5. i can pull any flag off of the shelf and know if it is a 2x3 or 3x5 just holding it. i could have my eyes closed, the weight of it. when you are used to dealing with flags every day you just know. you don't have to look at the tag or the label. you just know it is that size by the wakt of it. it will vary a little bit but

not very much. >> welcome to back to the uss theodore roosevelt on september 11th on the afternoon of the attacks on america, three firefighters raised a flag in the debris of the world trade center. it was an emotional photograph that kuz was captured and became famous and compared to the photograph of the flag raised on iwo jima. they are back joined by the speaker of the house, dennis hastert and the new york delegation and they will receive that flag back. >> they got the replacement flag. the flag that went all over was not that flag. >> i will never forget the smoky odor as the flag was unwrapped in my office. this flag flew high over the ship and pointed the way to afghanistan. tomorrow, uss theodore roosevelt returns home. for now, our mission is complete. but the fight against terrorism continues. this flag, which has thrown over

seven ships, is ready to be returned to the city of new york. its mission is complete, too. ♪ >> when the carrier came back we had a big ceremony. we raised the flag on the flag pole of city hall and it there are people who swear that is not the flag. >> somewhere between 9/11 and yankees stadium ceremony the flag went missing. >> how can a flag disappear off the face of the earth. we have heard all sorts of strange stories like somebody cut it up and selling pieces of it. i don't think that is true. >> they had a kickoff event last year in front of "the star spangled banner" at the smithsonian and oddly enough pieces of that flag had been cut off and sent to veterans to be buried with them. i'm glad they stopped it and

saved the flag and that is much less objectionable than selling it. >> i just think somebody has it and they are not coming forward. >>. >> after that picture was taken that flag would have been taken down that night and somebody stuffed it in their shirt and threw another one in there. they wanted to memallize it. >> i believe it went missing from ground zeroment. within the first ten days. my guess is somebody looked at it and said this is a small flag in a big space. let's hang a bigger flag. i could see that because you want it to be seen you will a over. i don't know what happened to it after that. >> when we catch a moment in video that's amazing. we have seen what happened just before and fen times what happens after it where a still photo leaves more to our imagination, when you see the moment frozen you have to ask yourself what did they

experience just before that moment? ♪ it. >> looked like the reverse of "the "wizard of oz"" and the wizard of odd is black and white and when you get to oz it is color. it was the darkest, gloomiest, paper flying. i'm thinking where am i? what country am i in? am i watching tv? i'm like no, i'm 45 minutes from my house in bud lake, new

jersey. >> see it is 81 degrees at 12:30. if you are at home you get bad news, you start to do things. you find out someone dies you start to make chicken soup. you start to make dinner. you to start to do something to keep yourself bycy and occupied and looking at these guys i think that is what they were trying to do, keeping themselves occupied. you can hear the fireman's emergency alarms going off. that chirping, that constant chirping and it keeps going and going and going. that's the first time that it hit me that there might actually be fatalities of firefighters. there's a lot of ambulances, about 15 or 20 ambulances lined up down that other side of west

street that you can get through. all of the doors are open on the ambulances. all the stretchers are gone out of the back. and that's it. >> there was really no -- >> is that tom franklin right there? >> was it? should have followed him. i could have got that famous shot.

humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's,

we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

>> kind of like the fingers or the skeleton of the outside of the building poking through the smoke. and then getting even closer to it and looking down and seeing like a child's doll on the ground, shooting a few pictures of that and then seeing a few firefighters. we had just gotten on the scene

'we were just like -- didn't even know what to do. they were just standing there looking at this pile. they didn't have all of the equipment yet. it was this weird feeling of inaction when everybody wanted to be doing something. i felt very much that these men, who were standing on a pile, were looking for their family, brothers looking for lost brothers. i think that, to me, is why photographs of firefighters are so powerful. it is representative, a projection of our nation at the moment, what we wanted to think of ourselves doing. i think the images probably worked in concert with the national mood. those firefighters really were looking for each other. and then that reflected back on to us as we were looking at that. for however long that lasted, 72 hours, a week, i think those photographs, that imagery contributed to sort of a feeling that we were like those firefighters for that moment.

we headed down along the waterfront near the marina and i looked and there were a group of firefighters carrying somebody on a stretcher. as they were walking, they were kicking up the debris and so you had these billows of white ash. as they pass me i saw it was another firefighter. they carry me down toy where yachts and other boats were. sort of down a gangway. >> this is the image here. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, i can see. >> i can see the rescue boats

there. so -- >> i went on to photograph them loading the wounded firefighter on to one of the and he contacted me later asking if i could share some of my photographs so that he could try to piece together what happened to him that day, because he didn't remember. >> on my walk, i kept asking people for film. so i went around and then i was at the sailing club where all the boats are docked. that's when i saw this guy who was apparently freelancing for "the new york times." he gave me a roll of film and he turned and we saw these firefighters take a flag off a boat. >> it was a flag from a boat that was down at the yacht club. we were taking a break down at the yacht club.

one of the guys said hey, lou, is it all right if i get that flag? i said yeah, sure, go get the flag. no idea what he was going to do with it. but he went and got the flag. >> i guess i saw the firefighters starting to walk, you know. it's like they were going around and i was going in. by the time i got in, they were coming. and i found a window, and i positioned myself at the window. and i only had like 19 frames yet and no more film. and i was on the phone with robert pledge from contact. and then i saw the firefighters come and i said i've got to go and i hung up on him. >> i came in from west street, and that's where the overpass was. they were pulling equipment out. but the reason we stopped there was it was a bunch of firemen hanging out. we were talking to them, trying to find out where they were taking people, what hospitals they were taking people to. we were looking for three other guys from my unit who were missing.

scott, john and glenn. they had just pulled a fire truck out from the rubble. actually drove it out and they cleared a path and we walked into the back. that's where the other photographers were. a fireman motioned that there was something going on on the corner and we looked and the fireman were raising the flag. >> i was right over them, and i don't think the firefighters were aware of me. they were just doing what they were doing. these guys needed to do this for themselves. i think that's what it was about. they started to raise the flag and there wasn't much wind, so i'm really saving my last few frames.

and, you know, finally the wind comes and i get a picture of the flag flying and i think the back ground had that like grayish blue sky and then this light just shining on it. >> i think at one point i almost got run over by a large tractor that was excavating material, and we really didn't think much of it then because we had so much other things going on. it was on the back burner. we never really gave it much thought. whatever footage we came back with that day, it went into a box and we didn't really think about it. we talked to some other guys there and we moved on. >> and then the firefighters came in and they said that buildings were collapsing. we had to get out. so we all left. and then building seven did fall. [ screams ]

i've uncovered civil wars and civil unrest for 30 years. i remember thinking this is the first time when i was actually able to walk or take the elevator up to the roof of my building to cover the story. immediately after the second tower collapsed, we raced down to ground zero. i remember shooting from one world financial center and looking at this devastation and the firemen and the relief workers, and there was this flag right below me, and i remember

photographing it because it was there. to me, it was part of the scene out the window. but not particularly significant. i don't think i ever connected my flag picture with the flag in that other picture in the sense that i wasn't aware that this was to become an iconic picture. >> seeing this picture like over the years, i almost just assumed that it was right in the middle of the pile. like right in the middle of like right in the center. they could have been putting that up in front of me and i don't think it would have dawned on me that that was going to become such a symbol. at the time you weren't thinking about a flag. >> at the end of the day, the -- we found scott and john mullins was still down at the site. at the end of the day, we still hadn't found glenn.

>> we all thought that it would be like you see in the movies, you would have a piece of steel and someone be trapped under it and there would be some air coming in, some water dripping down and they would come out a week later. we all thought that was a possibility. but the experts told us the first night, which we never really told everybody at the time, because we didn't want to take away everyone's hope, they were right. there was no survivors. and it was overwhelming. and i can't even say that word overwhelming. ever since september 11, i've been unable to say the word overwhelming without getting a vision of a widow who came to one to have meetings, and i -- i stood up and i said we were overwhelmed that day. she jumped up and she said you were overwhelmed? i'm overwhelmed. i have five children and my husband's gone.

we failed in getting her husband back, and i'll always see that lady when i hear that word, overwhelmed. >> as the night went on and people were digging and guys moving in with cranes, trying to save people, there you are with this camera. you know, it took me a while -- i didn't want to do it at first. i felt like wow, i should be doing something better. there must be more i could do. >> approximately 2150 hours, at the scene of the world trade center, terrorist attack. >> when we first went there, we were coming from like the marina side i remember. it's eerie thinking we were just shooting this video and nobody else came out alive after this.

>> so what do you see now? >> there's no flag there. >> the moment we found that -- >> where is the flag?

a lot of firemen over there. the flag. it's gone. so it's gone the first day. it's gone within the first six hours. >> they always assumed that this happened after the picture was published. the picture was first published on the 12th in new jersey, and on the 13th in "the new york post." >> correct. >> so then the question is, who took it and why? >> i can't seeing anybody climbing out there and grabbing

without somebody saying hey, what are you doing? >> it should be simple to see a flag if it's there. stars, stripes. somewhere in new york is something that matters. it's like when that guy found the picture of bill clinton hugging monica lewinsky five years later. it's this delusion you tell yourself, i never throw away a negative. each now i can't delete any pictures off of my phone, which is terrible. sorry, i don't remember people grabbing a flag or something like that. >> that's where the boats are on this side. where did they raise the flag? i don't know. >> here in front of this building --

>> yeah. that's where i spent the night, in this building. >> that's the other flagpole from the boat. >> i didn't ever realize that was a flagpole. >> it's interesting these nurses were there. >> people came to help, i guess. >> so there were a lot of people standing around. >> totally. inside this lobby was other people. there was real action happening here, dudes lifting stuff up and blow torching all night.

>> it does surprise me it's not up there. my guess is someone saw it up there, maybe it was wrapped up and said let's get a better spot for this and put it on a fire truck or something. >> you're saying that flag was still at the site when he went to get it? [ indiscernible ] >> so when the fire department sent the guy from the press >> he's got a flag in his hand. do you think that's the flag? >> congratulations. did you know who is this guy? >> we've spent a long time with people trying to find him. >> it's difficult to know from his back. do you think it can be one of the three? >> it's a totally different firemen. it's not one of the three. >> to be honest, i'm not sure what day it was. it was shortly after 9/11, and

we had been down searching. we were completely exhausted. i remember there being so much media on the left side of west street and there was nobody to the right side of west street. the last thing you want at that point of your day is to have anybody filming you or taking pictures of you. so we wound up going to the right, which was a lot quieter. on the way, i wound up taking out the flag i had and taking a look at it. after a few steps, some photographer popped out of nowhere. i don't know where he came from. but he just started snapping and i took my flag and i held it up in the air and went back to walking back to the firehouse. >> you don't want to clean it, you know. there's memories in those ashes. it's meant to keep for a long time. >> it felt like you were picking up a person almost or something grander than that. a feeling of a country. i'd rather not know where it is.

if you have the actual flag, i don't know, it's the cynic in me. people will want it. they put a price on it. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated

to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one.

>> the flag is sort of like the magical object in a way. it's like the torah scroll for the jews. it's a book. it's just physical. it doesn't have any meaning to it. but everybody embus it with a certain kind of -- it has a holiness. a torah scroll, when you pass it, you have to kiss it. when you see it, it's like a flag. it's an inanimate object that because of our culture, because of who we are, becomes something greater. >> let's just consider what old glory is. >> it stirs a different sense in

all of us. i think there's one meaning of the flag but many interpretations. each of us can have a personal connection with that symbol. >> we're not a country based on religion or ethnicity or even cultural heritage. we're a country based on ideas and a philosophy. and that's what the flag is. >> it makes us all feel united. it makes us feel like we're bigger than just ourselves. >> it's not until we're challenged that we reach back at what makes us americans, and what that is and what the symbol is, is the flag. >> if this flag were to be recovered, what should happen to it or does it matter? >> it would matter, it would matter. it would matter to me. >> i think it would matter to the families who lost their loved ones.

because it's a relic of the day. >> what happened to these firemen and where are they? >> you know, i think they never wanted this attention in the first place. they never anticipated that this would become -- >> everybody's first reaction who is a hero is to say i'm not. >> my name is bill eisengrind. i'm the firefighter on the right. on the left is george johnson. on the left is dan mcwilliams. it was literally over in just a few minutes. we found a spot and raised the flag. the three of us looked at each other, we looked at the flag and that was that. it was kind of no big deal and i'm sure danny and george feel the same way. we just felt we had other things that needed to be accomplished right then. there were thousands of missing people.

that was our mission, to try to find them and bring them home. dealing with a picture on the front of the paper really didn't matter at that point. >> if you were remembered for something, what would you want to be remembered for? >> hmmm. i would just like to be remembered as one of the people down there that did what we did to bring these people home. you know, nobody in particular did anything more than the other guy. everybody did their part and we brought whomever we could home. ♪

>> we love you. thank you. ♪

one, two. >> one, two. >> there you go. cover down. >> let's go. >> all the brothers stepped up. we got some donations. we put it all together. it was just supposed to be for 2002 to show new york city what 343 firefighters looked like and