>> think about the flevery flag guy. our guys. hello, everyone, i'm don lemon. now that you have just watched "the flag", i want to bring in the director, michael tucker. thank you for joining us here in studio. let's talk about the reaction to the film. are you getting any sort of leads on where the flag might be? >> we've received dozens of tips so far. some very credible, some more -- you have to realize there were hundreds of flags at ground zero, and they've been spread across the country. and everyone sort of has a connection to these stories and these flags. >> no, i understand that there was a company that you thought

there might be wow, this may be it. but what happened? >> it was the first tip we received was last saturday from a company called musko lighting in iowa. and they had mobile lighting trucks for sporting events. and on september 11th, they had trucks in new england. they sent them down to the city. they sent them to the pentagon. on the morning of september 12th, they said they received a flag from a firefighter which they then put on the boom of their truck. but as it turns out, that flag was far too large. >> and if the public wants to help out, go to findthefederal@cnn.com. and you can send tips. hopefully one of those will pan out. do you think you're close to it, hopefully maybe? >> i think as more people in the new york metro area see the film, some first responder is going to realize that this flag they took from the site probably just accidentally is the flag. >> the story was about -- how much was it about the mystery of finding the flag, or was it

about the importance of getting it back? is it a combination? >> well, i think actually it's something different. more than just looking for a flag, it's about looking for a feeling, looking for how we felt as americans. and by going on the search, we were able to talk to so many people and somehow register how we felt that day and in those weeks that followed. if the flag ever turns up, and let's hope it does, how will you know if it the real mccoy? who gets to determine that? >> the yacht owners that yaw saw in the film tonight, shirley dreyfus and they're the only people that can identify it. and if they were able to identify it, there is some sort of mark on it, and then they would probably give to it one of the museums in the city. >> are you afraid that they will -- that this flag will never be found? and even if it is, that people will say, hey, you know, how do we know? they'll doubt that it a genuine article. >> i think the mark is pretty specific. so. >> so you're not worried about that. you think that you will get it back, right? >> i'm not sure that we'll get it back at all.

it could just be out there some place in the five boroughs or on long island and we'll never find it. >> do you have any idea where it will go if it is recovered? >> initially, the yacht owners wanted to give to it the smithsonian. that's where old glory is. it's the most visited exhibit at the smithsonian. i think now with the 9/11 museum opening the spring, they would probably definitely consider that. >> what was the idea -- what gave you the idea to do this? obviously, it's what happened. but why you? because many people didn't know that the flag was even missing. what made you take this up as a mission? >> i think there is a larger story there. this is probably the most iconic picture of the day. it's the one that ended up on covers, "newsweek," covers of newspapers. it's been referenced by people like rudy giuliani. it was even in his political campaign. so people know this picture. what they didn't know was the story behind this flag and this flag raising. so it was a way to revisit the day. >> what is your hope here, obviously, to find it, right?

>> i don't know if the hope was to find it. i think there is a lot of -- there is very much unhealed wound. >> right. >> and the more that we talk about this, the more that we can view this historically, the more that we can have a conversation about 9/11, the stronger we'll be. >> michael tucker is the director of "the flag." again, before we go, i want to put the address up there. it's findtheflag@cnn.com. and you can leave your tips there. again, our thanks. great film. we appreciate you joining us here on cnn. >> thank you so much for having me. up next, the gop senators have dinner with the vice president at his home tonight, and guess who decides to join them? the president comes calling, looking for votes to support an air strike on syria. that's next. of getting something "new."

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just hours away now, congress returns to washington divided. many members still unsold on the president's plan for a military strike in syria. and the president is already working for votes. he attended a dinner sunday night. republican senators at vice president joe biden's residence. monday cnn has learned the former secretary of state hillary clinton is expected to make brief comments on the syria crisis during a visit to the white house. meantime, current secretary of state john kerry met with arab league ministers in paris on sunday. he says saudi arabia has approved international military intervention in syria. other key regional support uncertain, though, but kerry emphasized urgency. white house chief of staff denis mcdonough appeared on five sunday talk shows. on cnn's state of the union, he talked to our candy crowley

about our intelligence linking the assad regime to chemical weapons. >> joining me now, denis mcdonough, chief of staff at the white house. thanks for being here. i want to ask you something right now. if the u.s. should launch a strike, is there any country anywhere that would provide military equipment or military personnel to help us? >> well, it's important to see this statement that was released by the g20 on friday where we had several countries joining us in calling for the syrian regime to be held accountable -- >> but not supporting a u.s. strike? let's make that clear. >> to be held accountable for an instance that nobody now is debating, which is interesting. nobody now debates the intelligence, which makes clear, and we have high confidence about this, that on august -- in august, the assad regime used chemical weapons against its own people. a former iranian president has indicated that he believes that. the entire world believes that. we're talking to congress about that now.

so congress has an opportunity this week to answer a simple question, should there be consequences for him for having used that material. there is going to be a lot of interest in the answer to that question in tehran, among hezbollah, and in damascus, and we should be very clear about that. >> i want to ask about tehran and the message of tehran in a minute. but let me get to this point. right now the president has talked about it's the world's red line. the president has talked about all the neighboring countries that are threatened by what assad has done in his use of chemical weapons. are any of them willing to provide military equipment or military personnel to give a firm commitment from anybody? >> we've got commitments from, as you saw in the statement, and as you've seen in series of statements since, including yesterday out of brussels where the eu came out and said that the syrian government should be held to account. >> moral support. and not specific report -- it's not specific support for the strike at this point. >> well, not at this point. but it is specific support for

holding him to account. and it is a recognition that it happened. so we are no longer debating whether it happened or whether it didn't happen. and that's important. but we do have plenty of friends who are standing with us. but let's remember why the president said it's an international red line. going back almost 100 years, 1925, the geneva protocol against the use of these terrible weapons, that's been in place for almost 100 years. >> and it's a protocol that does not include and here is the punishment if it happens. it does not say that it's pretty much a no at this point. >> it is a call that has allowed us to ensure that our people, our troops, men and women in uniform have not been subjected to attacks with chemical weapons since world war i. that's the important issue here. we want to continue it, to have it that way. >> so let me just put this to rest. no, we have no firm commitments for military personnel or military equipment from any other country? >> look. we have plenty of support. i'm not going to get into who is going to do what in any particular operation.

we feel very good about the support we have, and we'll continue to build more. >> okay. at this point, more moral support than anything is what you're talk about. >> you're trying to get me to say that. i'm not going to say that. >> all right. will you wait until after the u.n. inspectors come out with their report on the chemical weapons before a strike? >> obviously, we're interested in what the u.n. inspectors have to say. let's remember a couple things. one, they're not going to be able to tell us what is responsible for the attack. it could be interesting corroborative information to what we already know and to what i've just indicated to you. everybody whom i speak with has indicated to me they believe he used chemical weapons in august against his own people. >> but the question comes from the fact that the eu in their statements seem to be indicating we want to see this u.n. report, that there is -- you know, there is the imprimatur of having the u.n. saying yes, they were used. >> it obviously is very important to our friends in europe and other friends as well. >> right. >> so we've indicated to, as secretary kerry said yesterday, we've indicated to our friends

that we'll continue to work with them. we'll see what comes out of new york. we're right now focused on washington, trying to get congressional support for this. >> would you wait? >> right now the timeline seems to work consistent with one another. but we'll see how this works. the president ultimately is going to make this decision in consultation with congress on our timeline as best suits our interests. >> so when the president speaks on tuesday night, do you have, and will he reveal a direct link between bashar al assad and these chemical weapons being used? >> well, i'm not going to front run the president's address. but here is what we do know -- >> is there one? and does the intelligence show a direct link? >> here is what we know. here is the common sense list. i'm not going to talk to you about intelligence. here is the common sense list. the material was used in the eastern suburbs of damascus that had been controlled by the

opposition for some time. it was delivered by rockets. rockets which we know the assad regime has, and we have no indications that the opposition has. and you've now seen -- cnn in fact ran these videos yesterday. you've seen the video proof of the outcome of those attacks. all of that leads to, as i say, a quite strong common sense test, irrespective of the intelligence that suggests that the regime carried this out. now, do we have a picture, or do we have beyond reasonable doubt evidence? this is not a court of law, and intelligence does not work that way. so what we do know and what we know the common sense test says he is responsible for this. he should be held to account. >> and we are just learning, cnn has learned that denis mcdonough will meet with house democrats on monday. this follows the president's announcement that on tuesday he is going to take his case for u.s. action against syria to the american people, and also the

president will meet with senate democrats on tuesday as well. and then the president is going to address the nation, as i said. and then you can see and hear the president live 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. before the president addresses the nation, he is sitting down with cnn's wolf blitzer. you can see that interview tomorrow, 6:00 p.m. eastern on ""the situation room"." so how does the image of the u.s. change if it goes it alone and it strikes syria? i'm talking about that with a former state department official, next. ♪ ♪ unh ♪ ♪ hey! ♪ ♪ let's go! ♪ [ male announcer ] you can choose to blend in. ♪ ♪ yeah! yeah! yeah!

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nations are divided over whether military action is needed in response to these alleged chemical attacks in

syria. but what does president obama stand say about america's place in the political world? in the world. joining me now from washington, author of "going to tehran", hillary mann leverett. you have spent a lot of time in the middle east. you're a former state department official. you have interviewed bashar al assad. you have interviewed his father as well. help put this into perspective for us. how does the u.s. image in the world change if an attack on syria is carried out? >> well, if an attack is carried out, it will likely be done without u.n. approval, without u.n. security council approval. and therefore in part because of that, it will be seen inside syria and the region and around the world as an illegal american attack, aggression on a country. so inside syria what it's very likely to do is consolidate support around bashar al assad. within the region, it's likely to boost assad's defenders like hezbollah and iran and the shia

government in iraq. and globally, it's likely to bring america's competitors -- russia, china, iran together into a closer alliance than they would be in any other context. >> talk to us more about the u.s. intervention. what would it mean to the u.s. relationship with iran? >> well, for the past two years, saudi arabia with the help of the west has really pushed this narrative that the war in syria is a sectarian civil war. and that has pitted shia against sunni. if the united states attacks, particularly in this kind of illegal way, it will no longer be seen as much as a sectarian war, but as one to resist the united states, resist israel that gave the united states in their view and their perception this kind of intelligence. so what that will do is it will put iran on the side of resistance, on the side of noble resistance against an ugly

american/israeli aggression. this is something that we know, year after year, it plays well. it plays well for a reason. people in the middle east are angry about illegal interventions in their countries that have led to the deaths of thousands if not millions of people. that's their perception. so if we do it again, we're going put ourselves on the -- really isolate ourselves and put iran into a camp that will have a lot of support through the region. >> is this why you say that american intervention will be sort of the last nail in the coffin when it comes to middle east influence? i spoke with you earlier. >> yes. >> and i believe those were your words. is this why you say that? >> yes. each military intervention that we have pursued over the past ten years has put the united states, has lessened american standing, has diminished american standing, has diminished american credibility, has diminished any respect for the united states whatsoever. it's interesting to look at the poll numbers. you compare president obama's poll numbers, who made outreach

to the muslim world a signature of his first term. his poll numbers in the middle east are less than george w. bush's were at the end of his term. the reason for that is people don't like american military interventions that kill thousands or more of their people. but we keep doing it, thinking somehow each time we do it, we're doing it for noble reasons to liberate these people. and then we're shocked, shocked like in libya that these liberated people aren't more grateful, and they have the nerve to kill our ambassador. i know that sounds politically incorrect, but we have to really look at this soberly. we cannot continue to go into these countries despite the public opinion polling, despite reality on the ground and think people are going to react differently, that they're going to welcome us with open arms and chocolate candy. >> i want the talk about senator john mccain, who is a long-time political adversary of president obama's. he says congress blocking for the president's plan in syria, he says it would be catastrophic, quote.

does he have a point? >> he is pointing to an underlying problem, which is that president obama put -- painted himself into a corner, both on syria and on libya. he insisted at the beginning of protests in both of those countries that their leaders had to go, their leaders had to be overthrown, with no plan, no strategy of how to effect that, and no thinking through of what the consequence would be, what those countries would do in response. so senator mccain has a point that this is going to be a problem. but to make the problem worse would be to intervene, would be to attack, would be to kill more people on the ground. and unfortunately, i don't think that senator mccain fully understands that. >> very interesting. thank you so much. we appreciate that hillary mann leverett. really good analysis. thanks again. >> thank you. syria the big story this week in washington. but there is more to tell you about in the days ahead, including a big unveiling from apple, and a sunken cruise ship hopefully rising back to the

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here now are five things you need to know for your week ahead. we call it the weekly five. congress gets back to work this week with the crisis in syria the talk on the hill. on tap, new closed door intel briefs for members of congress. president obama will address the

nation tuesday at 9:00 p.m. also on the agenda, immigration, spending bills, and a hearing on marijuana laws. >> it is the phone that has changed phones forever. >> 2-4-tuesday. apple is expected to unveil a pair of iphones at the annual event. grabbing the most attention will be the iphone 5s. apple is also releasing a less expensive model, the iphone c, which is mostly made of plastic and will come in an array of colors. wednesday is september 11th. president obama will mark the 12th advocacy of the attacks with a moment of silence at the white house. he'll also attend a solemn ceremony at the pentagon memorial. wednesday is also the one-year anniversary of the attack on the american embassy in benghazi, libya. do you have the need for speed? reno, nevada, will be an aviator's paradise during the national championship air races.

in addition to thrilling air competitions, jetman will show off his aerobatic skills as he flies through the skies at nearly 150 miles per hour. salvaging a shipwreck. saturday, engineers will attempt to raise the cruise liner "costa concordia." the crippled vessel has been sitting in the waters off italy for nearly a year. once the ship is upright, it will be towed and dismantled. and that's your weekly five. the president and ceo of the naacp is stepping down. ben jealous says he'll resign on the last day of the year. jealous says the constant travel has kept him away from his wife and young family too much. >> i want to spend time with my family all the time. and it sometimes usually means someone got kicked out. i just saw you a week ago, and

you were very happy. and i wondered why. and? >> and there you go. and there you go. you know, my chair asked me when i called her, she said well, is there somebody who is luring you away. i said yes, there. his name is jack and her name is morgan. >> i'm don lemon in new york. "presumed guilty, murder in west memphis begins right now. west memphis police discover the bodies of three 8-year-old boys in a drainage ditch. >> autopsies show they died from blows to the head. >> a horrific crime. three young boys murdered. >> at 9:00 that night, i knew that i would never see them alive again. >> three teenaged boys suspected.

>> i wanted to bash their head up against the wall, kick their face in. >> three teens demonized. >> that was the first thing that everybody started saying, that it was a ritualistic killing, satanic killing. >> three teens convicted. >> guilty of capital murder. >> their accused ringleader sent to death row. >> i'm in solitary confinement 24 hours a day, seven days a week. >> he deserves to be tortured and punished for the rest of his life for murdering 3-year-old children. >> it was a crime almost too horrible to imagine. three teens worshipping satan, murdering three 8-year-old boys. that happened right here back in 1993.

two of the teens got life in prison. a third was judged to be so evil, that he was sentenced to die. but after spending 18 years behind bars, a dramatic new development. the so-called west memphis three were abruptly granted their freedom. something that would have been very hard to believe when i first met one of them on death row in 2010 between the rain and the overcast skies, it looks very bleak out here. nothing around but farmland and small towns probably for the last 20 miles. penitentiary area. beware of hitchhikers. that suggests that people might actually escape from this place. but this prison is the supermax

of arkansas. the worst of the worst go to this prison. and at the time of his conviction, no one was considered worse than name iian eckels. a jury of his peers sent him here to be executed. but that happened 17 years earlier. when i first met the cocky teenager who horrified and enaged thous of people, he was pushing 40. >> hi. >> escorted to our interview handcuff and shack 8ed, the damian eckels i see appears frail, lonely, and eager to tell his story. >> you know, people are going to be watching you throughout this interview, and they're going to be judging you. >> right. >> how do you think they're going to judge you? >> i don't know. >> you're either innocent and a terrible victim of a justice system gone wrong, or you're a

terrible, cold blood killer of children. >> i think you'll probably have people who think both. >> with prison officials listening to our every word, i'm allowed to talk to damian for almost two hours. through a thick glass window, i listen as this obviously intelligent and articulate man describes why he believes the justice system failed him. and why there is still one question he never gets used to hearing. >> i'll just ask you the question. did you kill those boys? >> west memphis, arkansas, 1993. a small town, blue collar, steeped in religion. crisscrossed with truck traffic and interstates. just across the mississippi from graceland and beale street in memphis, tennessee. it's a quiet place most people drive past. but it was home for three 8-year-old boys named stevie

branch, christopher buyers, and michael moore. >> stevie and michael moore were best buddies. christopher started coming in to be friends i would say about a month or so before they passed away. but it was always stevie and might bel moore. >> on may 5th, 1993, the three boys went to school, came home, and went out to play. stevie branch's mother, pam hobbs, remembers it like it was yesterday. >> we wasn't home probably five or ten minutes when michael moore came over and asked if davy could go ride bikes with him. and i was telling him, not today, son. i'm getting ready for work, and i'm cooking, and all that. and michael just kept begging him please, let me go, let me go. so like a lot of parents do, i gave in and i said okay. >> do you remember the last thing stevie said to you? >> i love you, mama. and rode off, just as happy as

he could be. >> steve branch, christopher buyers, and michael moore were all last seen right here on this street. and they were doing what 8-year-old boys would normally do. they were playing, having fun, and riding their bikes back in that direction toward where the woods used to be. but that was the last time they were seen alive. and no one is sure what happened next. they never came home. families and neighbors searched frantically through the night as pam hobbs feared the worst. >> you had to be beside yourself. >> oh, i was. i was going hysterical. my heart was in my stomach, and i knew the worst had taken place. [ female announcer ] you walk into your laundry room and it just hits you!

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three little boys missing in west memphis, arkansas. their families frantically searching a wooded area near their homes. pam hobbs and her husband, terry, among them. but pam held little hope for her son stevie branch. >> i told terry, i said, he's dead. i said, i'll never see him alive again, and i was crying. and he said, no, pam, don't say that. it's going to be all right. we're going to find him. >> terry hobbs was right. they did find stevie. but pam was right, too. she'd never see her son alive again. a shoe. two bikes. and stevie branch with his two friends, christopher byers and michael moore. the boys were nude and bound with their own shoelaces. >> i run up there and one look at my ex-husband and i knew it was stevie and i hit the ground

screaming, god, no. >> almost immediately, word spread that these murders were the work of the devil. >> that was the first thing everybody started saying, that it was a ritualistic killing, satanic killing. i overheard people saying they'd been trying to let the police know there's been groups of teenagers out there practicing satanic rituals and things like that. >> satanic killing? an idea not so farfetched for the time. this is a community steeped in religion, a church is never far away. and it was a time before the goth look or the notion of a romantic teenage vampire became fashionable. and this was a crime so horrendous it was easy to believe it was committed by a monster. when you're hearing all of this, what's going through your mind? >> exactly the same thing, that that's what happened.

that the devil actually come and got my baby. everybody was a suspect. i would have thought you did it back then. i mean, anybody i looked at i was mad at. i went into a world of my own, and i hated people. >> damien echols tells me he was also in his own world. just beginning, he says, to hear about the three young boys found in west memphis. >> tonight investigators found the children beaten to death. >> do you remember the first time you heard about this murder? >> getting up that morning. i mean, it was everywhere. you couldn't not hear it. it was on every news channel, on every newspaper, they were talking about it on the radio. >> what were you thinking? >> to be honest, not a lot. i didn't pay -- it was something that didn't play a big role in my world. you know? i was -- it was people i didn't know, a situation i didn't know. >> he would figure it out very quickly. >> police launched a massive search for the killers. >> he may have not have realized it at first, but damien was the

prime suspect. >> as soon as they found those bodies they were at my house. >> damien was 18 years old at the time. dirt poor and troubled. he had had run-ins with the law before. what was their demeanor? what were their questions? what did they want to know? >> at first they were really friendly. they came in and they were asking, saying things like maybe you can help us. you know, just listen to what you hear on the street, listen to what people are saying. tell us anything you hear. maybe you can help us crack this case. they also took a picture of me, a polaroid picture. i didn't think anything of it at the time. i found out later that they were taking the picture around town and showing it to different people and already trying to connect me to the crime from that moment. >> so from the very first day they were treating you like a suspect. >> exactly. >> and you didn't know it? >> exactly. exactly. >> when was the first time someone asked you if you had killed those boys? >> maybe two or three days

later. >> police kept their eyes on damien and two other teenage boys. his best friend, jason baldwin, and another, jessie misskelley. there was no physical evidence linking them to the crime scene, but there was something investigators didn't like about them, especially damien. >> damien was kind of a smart ass, and he -- and he was a big reader. >> mara leveritt is a journalist and author of "devil's knot, the true story of the west memphis three." she's known damien and his story for years. >> he would say things to this -- to jerry driver, the juvenile officer that played against driver's own concerns about the occult and satanic activity in the area. and damien thought that he knew more because he was reading about these things. >> the community was terrified.

everyone was talking about an occult killing, witchcraft and devil worship. people were staying inside because they were afraid. >> and they were keeping their children inside because they were afraid. the reputation of the police as protectors was on the line. >> they had to get somebody. >> they were under a lot of pressure to do that. yes. and all of the authorities there. i mean, that's what we pay our authorities to do is protect us. >> three 8-year-old boys murdered. dumped in a gully. a community, stricken with fear of the unknown and police under the gun. for misfits like damien and his two friends, it was the perfect storm for presumption of guilt. ♪ ♪

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i'm is on lem -- don lemon. the president at the residence of vice president joe biden, attending a dinner for republican senators who are either undecided or actively opposed to the president's proposal to strike targets inside syria. the house and senate reconvened monday after a month recess. the president will talk to cnn's wolf blitzer on monday as well.

tune in at 6:00 eastern for that interview on "the situation room." more than a dozen children have been injured in a terrifying accident on a children's swing ride. it happened sunday at the oyster festival in norwalk, connecticut. police say it appears the ride lost power and threw children to the ground. 13 children were injured, two seriously. the ride owner says the swing was just inspected on friday. and tennis. serena williams has won her fifth u.s. open title. she beat victoria azarenka in three sets sunday. it's serena's 1th grand slam title. the men's final is tomorrow between number one, novak djokovic and number two, rafael nadal. those are your headlines this hour. i'm don lemon, keeping you informed. cnn, the most trusted name in news.

i came from an extremely, you know, dirt poor family. damien echols grew up here, in marion, arkansas, a mile or two from west memphis. his best friend jason baldwin lived nearby, and so did a boy named jessie miskelley. when was the last time you talked to jessie? >> i met him at his home on a cold, winter day to learn more about his son. >> everybody loved him. little kids called him uncle jessie. >> 17 years. jessie's father says he had a good heart but his son struggled in school and he didn't make it past the ninth grade. >> at the time he was 17 years

old, he came from a family that was a big family. he was a rough kid. he was low functioning in school. he had been in special ed from the time he started school. >> low functioning. >> iq i think at 72 is what he's been measured at. >> and what does that mean? how does he compare to a normal student? >> well, if the normal student is 100, then a 72 in our state, i believe that a 70 is the cutoff for mental retardation. legally. so he was just above that. and he had been in special ed until he'd finally dropped out in high school when he was 16, a year earlier than this. >> jessie knew damien echols and jason baldwin but not well. they lived in a neighborhood close by. what was your world? what was your day like? what was your life like? >> poor, white trash.

and i think that's one of the things that made it so easy for them to put this off on us, because we were ex-spendable. our lives didn't matter. >> whether that was true or not, the police were struggling to solve a crime with very few leads. what kind of pressure are police under at the time? >> business was suffering. people were not going out. life was not going on as normal. >> and they weren't getting crucial information from the state crime lab. three weeks after the murders, a police inspector pleaded for answers about the young victims. time of death. cause of death. were the kids sodomized? we need information from the crime lab desperately, the inspector says. our hands are tied. police had all these theories, but what did jessie misskelley do for them in terms of confirming what they were suspecting? >> he gave them something they could run with. he gave them something that they could use. >> almost exactly one month after the murders, jessie misskelley told police he saw

what happened in a tape-recorded statement. >> where did you go? we went up to robin hood. >> what occurred while you were there? >> when i was there, i saw damien hit this one boy real bad and then he started screwing him and stuff. >> jessie said he watched damien echols and jason baldwin tie up the 8-year-olds, beat them, cut them, and sodomize them. >> so you saw damien strike chris byers in the head. what did he hit him with? >> with his fist. >> his confession gave police the break they needed so badly. but with that statement, he sealed his own fate, and that of damien echols and jason baldwin. his confession itself was full of contradictions and inconsistencies. but once it was out, almost no

one would believe jessie would have admitted to doing something he hadn't done. in this so-called confession, he got a lot of the key points wrong. that the evidence could not back up. >> and the police knew it. >> and they ran with this confession? >> and so did the prosecutors. >> despite the inconsistencies, jessie's statement still seemed so convincing at the time that even his own father briefly believed he was guilty. >> when they first had him in court, i heard the evidence, you know, and everything. i somehow, i thought he'd done it. >> i had never heard you say that about -- you were sitting in the courtroom. >> i was sitting in -- >> you were hearing what they were saying about it. >> yeah. >> and you actually thought -- >> i actually thought he was guilty until i talked to him. >> that must have been a terrible thing for a father to think. >> it was. i guarantee you. >> but things were about to get even worse. for jessie, sr., his son and the other two boys accused in the murders.

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♪ you still have marks on your wrist from the handcuffs. >> i have permanent scars on my ankles where they've put them on so tight that i bleed sometimes. >> damien echols bears the marks of a man who spent nearly half his life on arkansas's death row. >> it's kind of hard to sit here and try to have a normal discussion with your family whenever they can look down and see you're bleeding through your socks. >> but even more painful, he says, is the question he's had to answer for the past 18 years. how often has someone asked you, did you kill those children? >> every single time i've done an interview i've been asked that. >> damien lives in 24-hour

lockdown. he's been convicted of murdering stevie branch, christopher byers and michael moore, all 8-year-olds, all found naked and bound in a gully on may 6th, 1993. >> it's hard. like i said, it doesn't get any easier, and you would think i'd be used to this by now, but you don't get used to this. and it does continue to get worse as time goes by. >> but it's a question he's had to answer ever since that day in 1993, when 17-year-old jessie misskelley confessed to witnessing this most heinous of crimes. >> damien hollered. said, hey, the little boys came up there. then they tied them up, tied their hands up, they started screwing them and stuff, cutting them and stuff. >> did you actually rape any of these boys? >> no.

>> did you actually kill any of these boys? >> no. >> did you see any of the boys actually killed? >> yes. >> he was a vulnerable kid who was in a high pressure situation for a very long time. and he started off saying, i don't know anything about it. and by the end of it, he had named two other people and himself. >> the two others? jason baldwin and damien echols. when you heard about this confession, what went through your mind? >> well, the very first time i heard about it, they wouldn't even tell me what they were talking about. they brought me into the police station and the head cop comes in and he starts saying, you know, we already know you did it. you may as well tell us what you did. >> jessie, damien and jason were all arrested hours after jessie's confession.

>> we all, i think, breathed a sigh of relief that someone was in custody that was being accused of committing the crimes. >> pam hobbs is stevie branch's mother. >> based on what the police told you, they were 100% certain these were the guilty guys. >> uh-huh. and so believing in my justice system and believing that the police who are to protect and serve i really felt like they had the right ones and i wanted to do something to them. >> what did you want to do? >> i wanted to bash their head up against the wall, kick their face in. i was just so angry. if i could have got ahold of them i think i probably could have shredded them with my bare hands. >> you wanted to kill them. >> i did. >> but while jessie may have confessed, he soon took it back and steadfastly refused to testify against jason and damien.

ultimately, jessie was tried separately, and ultimately, it would be his own words that would convict him. >> he hit him with his fist and bruised them up real bad. then jason turned around and hit steve branch. >> okay. >> and started doing the same thing. then the other one took off, michael moore took off running, so i chased him and grabbed him and hold him. >> jessie's confession was played for the jury at his trial. >> they heard jessie misskelley say, i saw damien and jason do this and when that one boy escaped i caught him and held him. >> on february 4th, 1994, jessie misskelley was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. damien's and jason's trial was next but the case against them was much weaker. >> now, going into the trial of

damien and jason, they don't have a confession. they don't have any information, a witness, anybody who says that these boys even knew the victims. >> six months after the child murders in west memphis, arkansas, prosecutors had little evidence against jason and damien. they had jessie's confession but he wouldn't testify against the other two. they did, however, get a big break right here in this lake behind jason baldwin's home. >> there was an announcement by the prosecutor that he had a hunch that there was a knife in this lake. >> dennis riordan is damien's attorney. >> the hunch, however, turned out to be a situation where they had informed the press to be there because they would discover -- essentially, because we're going to discover the knife in this lake. >> so the state police divers

come and go in there and very quickly come up holding in profile a serrated knife, which is what the medical examiner said had been used on one of the boys. >> a damning discovery that made headlines and all but sealed the fates of damien and jason.

♪ a knife found in a lake, an alleged murder weapon, rumors of satanic rituals and the words of a convicted killer. all of it adding up to an apparent slam dunk in the case against jason baldwin and damien echols. >> any time we would go to court, they were always standing along the walkway when they would lead us into the building, you know, screaming, holding signs. wishing death on me. >> damien and jason's trial for the murder of three young boys in west memphis, arkansas, began on february 28th, 1994.

>> crowds around the courthouse were irate, and they believed these were three kids who, in some kind of ritual involving satan, had murdered and mutilated three 8-year-old boys. >> mara leveritt wrote "the devil's knot, the true story of the west memphis three." she questions the strength of the prosecution's case. >> they had very little to go on and to present to the jury. so they made the decision they were going to say this was an occult slaying and that's why it all happened, because these guys were dabbling in the occult, and they brought in an expert witness, they said, named dr. dale griffiths. and he was going to be their expert in the occult. >> dennis riordan is damien's attorney.

>> this is a man who has a ph.d. from a diploma mill in california parading as an expert in this field when the fbi has looked at this and said this whole satanic thing is utterly unfounded. >> griffiths pointed out that the killings took place over a full moon and that practitioners of satanism wore black. >> i just wore what i liked and the black clothes happened to be what i liked. >> listening to heavy metal, wearing black clothing. >> reading steven king books. >> none of these are crimes. >> they thought they were. to them it may have not been a crime but they were indicators of the type of person who would commit a crime. >> when you say that, i'm sort of detecting a bit of bitterness. >> there is a little. i try not to be. >> but his bitterness was apparent during the trial. and it cost him. damien didn't exactly help himself on the stand, did he? >> no. no.

damien was conceited, arrogant, and he fell into something that is very adolescent. >> you know, when i was a teenager, i really was a smart ass. i always felt like if these people were stupid enough to look at me in that way, then, mess with them. play on their fears, you know? i would have thought it was funny. >> well, just watching you back then, you came across, i think one of the more kind words would be arrogant. >> i was a kid, and i was scared out of my mind, so my strategy for dealing with that fear was to pretend that i wasn't. i don't think there was any way i could have behaved, any way i could have dressed, anything i could have said that would have changed anything going on in that courtroom. i think they were absolutely determined, no matter what, to convict us of this crime. >> it wasn't just damien's courtroom antics. remember, prosecutors also had

that knife found in the lake behind jason baldwin's home. but even this bit of evidence cut both ways. >> i think the knife that was pulled out of the lake is a problem. because it had no providence. there was nothing showing that it related directly to this case in any way other than that it was a serrated knife found in a lake near where one of the defendants lived, and the crime lab had said there was a serrated knife used. other than that, there was nothing. but they made a big deal out of that knife in the trial. >> this knife could have never produced the wounds that we're talking about on these bodies. even the state's pathologist described what it would have taken, if these wounds had been made by a knife, he said, you know, a practiced surgeon would have had a difficult time doing that. in fact, there is a ready explanation of how this occurred. it's postmortem animal predation.

>> animal predation. that means it was possibly animals in that gully that had cut and scratched the bodies of the three little boys. on march 18th, 1994, jason and damien were found guilty of killing stevie branch, christopher byers and michael moore. >> we the jury find damien echols guilty of capital murder. >> getting accused killers off the street was a big, huge, relief to people. and then trying them and convicting them just sealed that relief. >> i feel wonderful at this point. i feel like we've definitely been vindicated in this case. >> now my boy can play and go on about his life in heaven the way it is, and i'll go on with mine the best i can. >> what are you going to say to your son? >> son, we won. and wait till mama gets there, and we'll have a good time when i get there with you. i'm glad it's over.

>> jason was sentenced to life in prison. damien was dealt with even more severely. he was sent to arkansas's death row. >> i was satisfied that they had the right ones in prison, and i was going to go watch damien be injected some day. >> you wanted to go to damien's execution. >> yeah. >> you wanted to see him injected. you wanted to see him die. did you want to say anything to him on that day? >> i just wanted to look at him, tell him to look into my eyes and i hope you see my son. >> hated, reviled, convicted. in the case of west memphis three, justice was served. or was it? what does that dna tell us? >> it tells us that me, jason, jessie, none of our dna was found at the crime scene. ♪

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♪ my conversation with damien echols, a convicted child murderer three times over, was never supposed to happen. he's supposed to be dead. sentenced originally to die all the way back on may 5th, 1994. why are you still alive? >> over the years, people have paid more and more and more attention to this case. instead of forgetting about it, the attention paid to it has gradually built up. and i think that's why i'm still alive. >> and keeping damien's hope of getting off death row alive is

this man. attorney dennis riordan. >> i was immediately very reluctant to get involved in a death penalty case. prosecutors generally will not pursue the death penalty unless they feel the evidence of guilt is overwhelming, and i was stunned to find out that there was not, in my opinion, a single piece of credible evidence in a death case of this man's guilt. >> damien echols, jason baldwin and jessie misskelley, now known as the west memphis three, have all found supporters from all over the world, including celebrities, like actor johnny depp and rock musician eddie vedder. do you know how rare it is for someone on death row to be set free? >> there are so many things about this case and about my life in general that are against the odds that things like that don't even make me blink anymore. >> and that support has led to hundreds of thousands of dollars for dna testing of a hair found

at the crime scene. and that has led to some startling revelations. >> the dna evidence proves there were no sexual assaults. the forensics proves that as well. the material that does exist, all three defendants are eliminated from it. they couldn't have produced it. and on the other hand, there is evidence consistent with a relative or a family member of one of the victims. and it's a hair in one of the ligatures which ties up one of the boys, and that's consistent with terry hobbs, who is the stepfather of stevie branch, one of the victims. >> but the hair was found on stevie's friend, michael moore. while the dna is consistent with terry hobbs, it is far from conclusive. we've reached out to both terry hobbs and his attorney ross sampson and both have declined to speak. but i did sit down with them in 2007 when the dna results were first announced.

is it possible, mr. hobbs, that that was your hair? >> sure. it was his son, steven branch, who was murdered, and he's had to deal with this for the last 15 years. >> is there anything that you feel comfortable telling me? >> you live with this every day. and then to have your friends and neighbors look at you and think, is there something else there? that's -- that hurts. >> terry hobbs has never been named a suspect in this case. and authorities stand by their convictions. but his ex-wife pam, stevie's mother, doesn't know what to believe anymore. do you believe that any of those three young men are guilty? >> at this point, no, i don't. >> you think three innocent men are behind bars? >> i do. >> do you believe your ex-husband could have done that? >> i don't want to believe that, no.

i lived with the man another 14, 15 years after my son and if it came out that he was the one that actually committed this crime, i'm going to fall face first, i know that. but i'll get back up. and that's what scares me about the truth. was he involved? >> pam hobbs may have changed her mind about the west memphis three, but judge david burnett who initially presided over the case has remained unmoved over any new developments. >> he denied in an evidentiary hearing. he essentially said i don't have to listen to the dna evidence. >> that all changed, however, on november 4th, 2010, when the arkansas supreme court ruled unanimously that a new hearing be held to determine if the west memphis three deserve a new trial. the court ordered that all new

evidence, including the dna, must be considered at the hearing. >> i think judge burnett made some erroneous rulings in the original trial, and i can say that because every member of the arkansas supreme court agreed with our position in challenging his ruling, denying an evidentiary hearing on the new evidence. >> but this is as close as we could get to judge david burnett. we came here to osceola, arkansas, where he lives and works. we had arranged to speak to him at his home, but he wasn't there when we arrived. we came to his office to find the office closed. we spoke to him on the phone and he says that he is not going to be giving any interviews now, unless the prosecutors in the case talk, as well. and they're not talking. the judge says that he believes that there is a circus-like atmosphere around this case, and he's tired of being called the bad judge. we also reached out to the west

memphis police department and the original detectives on the case, including chief investigator gary gitchell. they all declined to speak with us. >> these are good kids. >> in the meantime, jessie misskelley's father is hopeful about his son's future. jessie's truck that he used to drive is still under here? >> yep. >> does he know you're keeping it for him? >> yeah. i'll probably have it going by the time he gets out. but i've started on it. tearing it down. >> and like jessie's dad, damien is hopeful but somewhat fearful at the same time. >> because this time the world is watching. this time, you know, you've got people all over the world paying attention to this case now. so steven king novels and bad teenage poetry aren't going to be enough for them to do this again. but at the same time, i guess it's -- i don't know. i guess if you've been hurt by something, there will always be some part of you that's wary of it, scared of it, that never completely trusts it.

>> but one fact remains. three 8-year-old boys are dead, viciously murdered. their families devastated to this day. for them, their sons, there are no second chances. >> that has to be horrifying, to live through something like this, to lose your child, and then, to come to this belief that the police got the wrong guys. >> 18 years later, and i still don't know the truth. i don't feel like i know the truth. >> now the west memphis three jason baldwin, jessie misskelley jr. and david echols are free men, after pleading guilty to first-degree murder charges. it's a unique plea where they're able to go free and proclaim their innocence, but at the same time they had to acknowledge that prosecutors had the evidence to convict them. prosecutors now say it's case

closed. they believe that they did it. but for those who don't, there is that lingering question. if the west memphis three didn't kill those boys, then who did? e >> are you sure that your husband got shot? >> yes, he was hit in his head. >> a brutal killing on a glistening lake. >> you saw your husband get shot and thrown from the jet ski? >> yes. >> were they caught in a cross fire? >> it is a war over there, the two cartels fighting each other for cont