you're talking to. >> fence or wall. no, it's a big wall. it's ugly. it's really ugly. you can see it, it's not far you can see it, it's not far away from here. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com pastor rick warren. his prayer in the wake of america's latest mass shooting. >> i got down on my knees and prayed for the families of the victims, those who died and those who were wounded. >> it's an issue that touches his deeply. his youngest son, 27-year-old matthew shot himself to death. losing a battle with mental illness. tonight he tells me how the loss of his son tested his faith and how he put his family back together and returned to his church. >> i was overwhelmed by the love of our people. >> how he and his wife handled

the attacks of those who hate them. rick and his wife kay speaking out for the first time since their family tragedy. >> we stood in the driveway embracing each other and just sobbing. here with me is pastor rick warren and his wife kay. this is their first interview since the suicide of their son matthew back in april. welcome to both of you. my deepest and sincerest condolences. i remember that day and seeing the news breaking. you are very famous, rick and it flew around the internet and around the world. i felt a huge sense of sadness for you. i can only begin to imagine what it was like for you two. how have you been coping?

>> you know, elizabeth cubeler ross did the four stages of dying. i think they are six. we have been watching ourselves go through these back and forth for several months. the first stage is shock. and for us the shock still happens. but i kept waiting for matthew going to come in the door. i couldn't believe it happened. it was so sudden. and then you move from shock to sorrow, sadness and this profound sadness that comes into your life. then you move to what i call struggle. that's the "why" questions, why now? why me? why matthew. then you move to a stage called surrender. i would rather have all my questions and walk with god.

you have to say i'm not going to know all these answers. and then you move to sanctify cation. and then there is hurt. >> i feel honored that you asked me to do this interview. you're a mother of three children. it's worst thing in the world. i have four kids. it's the thing you dread most is losing one of your kids. how have you been coping with this? >> you know, i said almost from the first moment that we're devastated and not destroyed. when people ask how are you? there's no good answer and i settled on i'm terrible but i'm okay. in other words we're going to survive. we're going to survive and some day we'll thrive again. it is -- it is this worst thing that could ever happen.

>> i have cried every single day since matthew died. but that is a good thing. grief is a good thing it's a way that we get through the transitions of life. if i don't cry then you stuff it. i have a saying, when i swallow my emotions me keeps going. if i don't talk i take it out on my body. men don't do grief very well. we don't like the negative emotion. but grief is a good thing it's how we get through the transitions of life. >> on the morning that matthew died you had a strange sense of f foreboding. he was a troubled boy. he battled mental health issues his whole life. why did you have this sense of foreboding? >> i had been going through a week doing what i called the

battle for hope. the previous sunday is easier. we had 50,000 people. and i did a message on why you need hope. and each day of that week i had a battle of hope. on monday we announced i was starting a national radio program. on tuesday i announced i was going to write a book and take a four-month sabbatical. on wednesday i announced there would be a new series starting that weekend. that weekend i had planned a message i ended up having tom preach it called what to do on the worst day of your life not knowing that would be the worst day of my life. and on the radio program that was airing nationally and that day it was called winning the battle for your mind. the irony of that with a son who lost hope, took his life, and

had struggled for 27 years with this battle in his mind, a tender heart but a tortured mind, we just had this sense of foreboding that day. >> kay, how had he been the night before? >> you know, he was -- it was actually one of the best weeks he had had in a long time. he had been struggling with suicidal ideation for a long time. he had a good week. he started a new job and a datelined up for sunday. he had a bag of new towels he had just got. he was going to upgrade to an iphone 5. he had a gal he was going to go by a fast food store. so he had all these things but he laid his head down on the kitchen table and he just said i'm so tired. he said i'm so tired. and he had been asked to be a part of this offline chat room thing that he was excited about.

but he said, you know, the pressure of i want people to like me. but if they do, then there's the -- can i maintain that and there is so much pressure. i walked him out to his car and gave him a hug. rick hugged him before he left. and when i got his phone back -- >> no sense of conflict. >> i mean, he was tired. but when we got his phone back from the police, at 9:45 p.m., he was texting for the girl he was going to have a date with. nine minutes later, he texted me and said i feel like it's all spiraling out of control and i'm going to take my life. in nine minutes. >> it was like a switch. >> so i was in a texting conversation with him for the next hour trying to talk him off that ledge, talk him into -- so i knew it was desperate and i knew he had a gun. and so i knew that there was -- that he had the lethal means.

so not only was he impulsively in despair. >> how did you know he had the gun? >> he told me. >> i'm going to come to that aspect. he bought the gun online illegally. >> he did. >> and we'll come to that. >> and then he stopped texting. he was getting more agitated. i wasn't able to calm him down and he just stopped. >> we talked him off the edge hundreds of times. >> yeah. >> and i just knew. rick was very ill. we drove over to matthew's house. the lights were on and i was banging on the door. typically he would have said go away or come to the door. he did nothing. that was not his pattern. so i had a pretty good sense that perhaps something catastrophic had happened. >> what time is this? >> that was late on thursday april 4th.

and so i was pretty sure that something had happened. but he had also told us that if we called the police, that he would take his life instantly. so a call to police was an instant suicide. so i was living with that horrible, horrible choice of do i call the police and perhaps intervene or take that risk if i call then he instantly killed himself. so we had to wait for a few hours. so it was into the next day that i felt that he was not responding and finally when i sent the text saying i'm calling the police. just give me one word that says you're okay. >> we'll call -- >> there was nothing. and so we went back to the house, the house looked the same, same lights were on. we knew. >> so you got back to the house in the morning. you had this awful sense that he had probably taken his life. but you couldn't get inside the house. you called the police and were

waiting. that moment for the both of you must have been beyond harrowing. >> we were sobbing. we were just sock. -- sobbing. the day that i had feared might happen one day since he'd been born and the day i prayed would never happen, happened. and i remember as we stood in the driveway just embracing each other and sobbing, kay was wearing a necklace. you're wearing it today. that had the words of a book she wrote a year ago called choose joy. and i thought are you kidding? how can i choose joy in this worst circumstance of my life? but even in that moment we were trying to say, we're not in control. but we do have a greater hope. and we do have a source of joy that isn't based on our circumstances.

and it was a holy moment. >> but it was excruciating to sit there even though by that point i knew that he was gone, to have an officer come out the door and just nod -- >> say the words you never want to hear. >> i hit the ground. i hit the ground. >> and it's not supposed to end like this. because we had had close calls. matthew had made attempts on his life before in other ways. and we just kept -- you know, when matthew was born, even as a young child he struggled with mental illness. we can get into that when you want to talk about it. so we knew that this day might happen some day but it's a day that no parent wants. it's your worst nightmare. and i'll never forget the agony

of that moment. >> let's take a short break. i want to come back and talk to you about the appalling battles that matthew had gone through and the battles you went through as his parents to try to prevent this from happening. >> then when they brought his body out, i -- i -- i hugged him for all it was worth. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one.

i get out a lot... except when it's too cold. like the last three weekends. asthma doesn't affect my job... you missed the meeting again last week! it doesn't affect my family. your coughing woke me up again. i wish you'd take me to the park. i don't use my rescue inhaler a lot... depends on what you mean by a lot. coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at asthma.com, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. getting the right nutrition isn't always easy.

first, i want a way to help minimize my blood sugar spikes. then, a way to support heart health. ♪ and let's not forget immune support. ♪ but now i have new glucerna advance with three benefits in one. including carbsteady ultra to help minimize blood sugar spikes. it's the best from glucerna. [ male announcer ] new glucerna advance. from the brand doctors recommend most. advancing nutrition for diabetes. from the brand doctors recommend most. make my mark i wawith pride.ork. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars. nascar is about excitement. but tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. that's why we partnered with hp to build the new nascar fan and media engagement center.

hp's technology helps us turn millions of tweets, posts and stories into real-time business insights that help nascar win with our fans. when matthew dies, now several months back, it forced me to go deeper in life with god. >> how to get through what are you going through.

pastor rick warren and his wife kay join me now exclusively. this is heart breaking to listen to for anybody, never mind a parent or anyone to go through this. you are there at his house, matthew's house. you now know that he has done what you have always hoped you would never do. did you go in? did you go and try to see him? >> i didn't want to see what the possibility was. so i opened the door. i led the police in and i let them go into the room and i immediately came right back out. i didn't want to -- >> no, we didn't. neither of us wanted to. the pictures in our mind are terrible enough. >> were bad enough. >> and we were fortunate, some people find their loved ones. we were fortunate that we did not have to witness that, but they let us know it was catastrophic enough that the police officer was like, you don't want to have an open casket. so i assumed i would never see him again.

so i said, i am definitely, i want to see, i am going to hug him when you bring him out. and so they did. when they, then when they brought his body out, i, i hugged him for all it was worth and they, the coroner tried to move me away and i was just like, i will be done when i am done. i am hugging my son until i am finished. and we were really, it was amazing blessing to us that -- that they were, we were able to, we were able to use a beanie and we were able to have an open casket and a viewing for those, for our family. an that was a treasure. it sounds weird, but. >> no, it doesn't. >> but it was a treasure to be able see him and touch him and hold him again. >> there are more suicides annually in america now than there are from auto accidents.

one every 13.7 minutes, even while we've been doing this interview, somebody else has committed suicide in america. what does that tell you? >> well, on a personal level on a family level on a government level, there would be three different answers. on a personal level it tells me there are a lot of people in despair. not all those people are mentally ill by far. but mental illness is really in one way the last taboo. >> it's the leading cause. >> piers, if any other organ in my body can get broken and there is no shame, no stigma to it. my liver stops working, my lungs. hey, i got diabetes, my pancreas or adrenaline glands. if my brain is broken i'm supposed to feel bad about it. i'm supposed to feel shame. so a lot of people who should

get help don't. >> kay, matthew from a very early age had suffered from depression. he was misdiagnosed, with bipolar and other conditions. in the end, you believe he was correctly diagnosed eventually. >> yes. >> with something called. >> borderline personality disorder. >> what is that? >> borderline personality disorder is a pervasive attachment, if you will, to mood swings, suicide ideation. it's a disregulation of emotions. there is usually a lot of difficulty in interpersonal relationships. many times people cut or burn themselves also have borderline personality. it's pervasive meaning it's just really hard to deal with, but there is hope for it. >> it's hard to imagine all that i've researched on this with you and your family and matthew, it's hard to imagine anyone who suffers from this kind of illness who has had more love and support from their family

and a wide circle of friends, who has had more treatment from the so-called experts, more institutionalized -- >> right. >> moments. everything you could imagine. and, yet, still it wasn't enough to save him. >> if you look at the risk factors at what puts people at risk for suicide, matthew had almost none of the risk factors. he had a -- as you say, a loving family. he had the access to care. he had friends, he had everything and yet. >> a strong social system around him. >> the main risk factor for him was mental illness. he had that. >> if love could have kept my child alive, he'd be alive today. he was incredibly loved and he had an older sister and older brother who were fiercely protective of him. even as a young child, when he, the signs of mental illness came on and we could see it, the whole family rallied around. >> he was not ostracized in anyway. >> not in any way. >> he was welcomed into the extended family.

he had all of those things that should lower his risks. but we've known for years and years, a decade at least, that he was trying to take his life. >> how many times had he actually tried? >> he had actually made two other attempts that were definite attempts plus the attempts to attempt. he would text me and say, i'm trying and i can't. i can't make myself do it. i'm such a wimp. i can't even succeed at this. two actual other attempts, one ten days before -- >> before he had taken an overdose. >> he overdosed. he had, well, i'll tell you this. he kept trying and there are sharl tins on the internet who prey on vulnerable people like matthew. he tried to buy -- he didn't want to buy violently. he wanted to die in a peaceful way. so he tried to buy nimbutol on the internet. people took thousands of dollars from him and people sold him poison that was supposedly peaceful poison.

i mean, he really was so desperate to end the pain. that's the most important thing is matthew was in such excruciating emotional and physical pain. he just wanted the pain to stop. >> matthew was not afraid to die. he was afraid of pain. i remember ten years ago when he was 17, he came to me sobbing and he said, daddy, he said, it's really clear, i'm not going to get any better. we had gone to the best doctors the best hospitals, the best treatments, therapists, everything, prayer, everything you could imagine, good support and he says, it's real clear, i'm not going to get any better. so why can't i just die? he says, i know i'm going to heaven. he was not afraid to die. >> what did you say to him? >> well, in that situation, i said, matthew the reason why is there is a purpose. even in our pain and i am not willing to just give up and say the solution isn't there. you might give up, but as your father, as your mother, we're

not ever giving up that we won't find the solution because i really believe matthew could have been a great advocate for children and the world. he was an amazingly compassionate kid. he had an ability to walk into a room and he would instantly knew who was in the most pain in that room. he had his antenna up. he could feel it. he would make a beeline with that person. the rest of the evening, he'd spend that tire i entire time trying to cheer them up, encourage them. many times you say, dad, i can help a lot of other people, i just can't get it to work for me. in fact, when we later looked at these so-called suicide sites and found a number of people he had actually helped even in his own agony. and our -- our -- it's the world's loss that he's not here. it's the world's loss. >> let's take another break. let come back and talk about how he killed himself, the gun he used and how he got that gun.

because that, in itself, should never have happened. >> yeah. >> we are grateful the laws kept matthew from getting the gun for as long as it did. >> yeah. [ male announcer ] campbell's angus beef & dumplings. hearty cheeseburger. creamy thai style chicken with rice. mexican-style chicken tortilla. if you think campbell's 26 new soups sound good, imagine how they taste. m'm! m'm! good! you're not linda. i'm filling in for officer owens. she used double miles from her capital one venture card to take an early vacation. buckle up. let's go do cop stuff. [ siren chirps ] license and venture card, ma'am. was i going too fast? oh, you'd be going twice as fast if you had double miles. [ male announcer ] get away fast with unlimited double miles from the capital one venture card. freeze! don't touch the face!

can i drive? absolutely not. what's in your wallet? used and how he got that gun.

pastor rick warren is here with me now along with his wife, kay. you mentioned earlier that matthew had a gun. how did he get this gun? >> he didn't get it legally. that's for sure. the gun laws in california are strict. they worked. he couldn't get a gun legally. >> had he tried to do it legally? >> oh, yeah, for a long time. we are grateful the laws kept matthew from getting a gun for as long as it did.

>> yeah. but he kept trying. >> he wanted one as far as you're aware for only one purpose? >> only one purpose. because he knew it would end it for him and he was just so determined. >> when did he finally get this gun? >> a month before he took his life. >> do you know how he got it? who he got it from? >> he told me that he -- he told me everything. he told me that he found somebody finally on the internet who would sell it to him. it had to be super encrypted and it had to be this whole process. he begged me to help him because he couldn't figure out the process. again, there are so many moments of terrible choses with mental illness. here is my son is terrible pain begging me to help him to get a means to end his pain. it's like, my son, i can't do that. i can help you live. i will do anything to help you live. i cannot help you take your life. he finally through great struggle was able to figure it out.

so he got a gun illegally on the internet. he filed down the serial numbers, so we, maybe afterwards we tried to find the person. he had done a really good job. >> he didn't want anybody else to be blamed for his choice. i have to say, piers, one of the hard things was forgiving the person that sold him the gun. because i didn't want to forgive him. >> you prey on a desperate person. >> do you know who that person is? >> i have no idea. >> the police have never been able to find him?

>> because they couldn't trace the gun. it was so encrypted. yeah, they couldn't find it. >> have you been able to forgive this person? >> oh, yeah, i have to forgive. not for his benefit, for mine. i more give first because i have been forgiven by god. second, i am forgive it makes me miserable. third, i will need more forgiveness in the future. >> i don't want to be tied to that person emotionally the rest of my life. >> he hurt me already. >> he's gone. >> the gun, itself, kay, it's such a final thing. i campaign i campaigned a lot about gun control. one of the aspects is the suicide rate from guns. in states where there are more guns, there tend to be more gun suicides. you told very movingly, rick, after sandy hook and other shootings about the gun culture in america. this is another example. but it's touched your family. >> yeah. >> what can be done about this? is there anything that can be done about it? >> yeah. well, it appears that there are multiple angles that we have to hit on this. because we are in a culture of violence. but it's, there's the mental health issue. there is the social issue of kids are growing up playing video games an might have shot 30, 40,000 people before they they're 16.

>> dehumanized by the thought process. >> dehumanizes it. >> it's fun. it's fun. so there is that culture. then there is the issue of gun control. and they don't call them an assault rifle for nothing. it's for assaulting. >> just recently, we had this latest incident, the naval yard in washington. another mass shooting. countless more lives devastated. so it goes on, just this constant tidal wave. now that you have been so personally touched, you are in such a position of authority. >> yeah. >> is it affecting what you are going to be saying about this going forward? >> well, yeah. it will affect me in all three of those areas. not just simply in gun control. by the way, when i heard about that, those deaths at the naval yard the first thing i did is get down on my knees and pray for those families of victims. those who died and those who are wounded and my heart went out to them. i do think there is no way a gun should ever get in the hands of

a mentally ill person. there is just no way. so i as i said, california has one of the strictest gun laws around. even with strict gun laws, he figured out a way. if you are persistent, you are going to figure out a way. is so in addition to laws that restrict, we also have to go to issues of why did my son want a gun and were there better ways to help him? we, of all people, have the means, the ability, to connection to find help for our son. if we couldn't find it, what is the person who is a single parent who has a mentally ill family member or a poor person that has a family member, this is an issue that has to be brought to the forefront. >> kay, people say it's the 2nd amendment right of every american to have guns. what do you say to them? >> it is. it's in our constitution. i don't have a problem with that.

i am not saying that guns should be outlawed completely. i do believe that our constitution has that there for a reason. i absolutely do believe in very strong, good laws that protect, protect the innocent. protect the vulnerable. >> background checks. >> waiting periods. in fact, something that could be added probably fairly easily is there is, when firearms are given, purchased, that there is instruction of how to prevent accidental shootings. what if there was just even some information about that in talking to people about suicide? what if the gun manufacturers and dealers also included information about keeping guns away from people who are mentally ill. just some small, simple things that can prevent the number of death by guns. >> let's take a break. i will come back and talk to you about the month you basically spent in seclusion after this

happened. also the appalling attacks you got on the internet on twitter, on another curse of the modern age. i want to talk to you about that as well. >> i never questioned my faith in god. i questioned god's plan. play close. good and close. discover the new way to help keep teeth clean and breath fresh. new beneful healthy smile food and snacks. he'll love the crunch of the healthy smile kibbles. you'll love how they help clean. with soft, meaty centers, and teeth cleaning texture healthy smile snacks help keep a shine on his smile. it's dental that tastes so good. new beneful healthy smile food and snacks. you work. and you want to get an mba. but going back to school is hard... because you work. now, capella university offers a revolutionary new way to get your degree.

it's called flexpath and it's the most direct path, leveraging what you've learned on the job and focusing on what you need to know so you can get a degree at your pace. and graduate at the speed of you. flexpath from capella university learn more at capella.edu make my mark i wawith pride.ork. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt.

starting at 49 dollars. because what you dont know can hurt you.urance, what if you didn't know that it's smart to replace washing-machine hoses every five years? what if you didn't know that you might need extra coverage for more expensive items? and what if you didn't know that teen drivers are four times more likely to get into an accident? 'sup the more you know, the better you can plan for what's ahead. talk to farmers and get smarter about your insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum, bum - bum - bum -bum ♪

>> so when matthew died, satan thought he had won.

but actually, he had lost. why? he couldn't torture him anymore. >> pastor rick's first sermon after his son matthew's suicide. you, obviously, talked to me about how difficult it was. at the same time, you are one of the famous pastors in america. you knew is there had been a moment when you got back out there and talked about this. what was that moment like, i know you both went out on the stage. kay you only lasted a couple minutes because you found it so difficult which is completely understandable. for you, rick, that moment when you walked out. >> i was overwhelmed by the love of our people. kay and i have given 33 years to this church and i feel like they all gave it back in a moment. it was just a very tender moment

for me as a pastor, i have walked through the valley of the shadow of death with thousands of people. i have walked, i have stood at the bedsides and seen lots of people take their last breath. i have been there for those people for 33 years and they were there for us when we needed it most. there are different levels of grief. the easiest funeral to do is when an elderly person dies. they lived a good life. they love the lord. they're ready to go to heaven. when my parent's died, kay's dad died, it's a celebration of life. more difficult is the death of a spouse. more difficult than that is the death of a spouse with little children at home. that's tough. a murder is a tough funeral to do. without a doubt the most difficult kind of funeral is the death of a child because parents aren't supposed to outlast their children and then on top of that is a suicide.

people go why? now, i'm doing the death of a child's funeral the death of my child's funeral the death of my child's funeral as a suicide and then as you said as a well-known person, everybody knows. it's on the cnn ticker and it's on everywhere else. and that's difficult and that's why we just decided. i decided i was going to use social media to grieve. >> this is a tough question for you, rick. there must have been a moment after matthew took his life when even you questioned your faith in god. >> i never questioned my faith god. i questioned god's plan. there's a big difference. i know god is a good god. nothing can shake that from my life. i know god is a loving god. the question is, it's like my. my children have never doubted i loved them. they sometimes doubt my wisdom

and don't think i've made the right decision. not everything that happens in the world is god's will. everything that happens in the world, god allows. he permits, because it couldn't happen without his permission, but we live in a world where there are free choices. if i choose to do wrong, i can't blame god for that. god isn't to blame for my son's death. my son took his life. it was his choice. if i chose to go out and get in a car and i was in an accident and killed somebody. i can't blame god for that. >> kay, have you gone through any doubt about your faith? >> you know, as rick said, it's not, our faith is partly what's got us, the foundation of what's gotten us flew. -- flew. it's solid and strong. i have to tell you before i have something that i want to show you, there is this box that was

given to me a few years ago and it's got the word, it's a marble box. it's got the word "hope" on it. >> her hope box. >> it's my hope box. ifilled it with verses that gave me comfort, encouragement, verses that just kept my faith very strong before matthew passed away. every day i wouldsy assist and read these verses. and that morning after we had been to his house the night before and i was pretty certain that he had taken his life. i got up that morning. i opened my hope box. i went through the verses one more time. then after that, i didn't open it for a month. i couldn't. then i started to think, so where do i go from here? what do you do when your hope has been crushed. the only way i know to rebuild it is to go back to my faith. and to god's word. this time i started putting in verses in that give me hope for the future. there is this amazing verse in first corinthians 15: 43 that says our bodies are broken and they will be raised in glory. they are buried in weakness,

they will be raised in strength. every time i quote that verse. you know, matthew's body was broken, a gun broke his body. he will be raised if glory. he was buried in weakness. i say, matthew, you were buried in weakness, but you will be raised in strength. so the struggle has been not in believing that god exists. not that god is evil. because god is good. but i have this other little tiny pot when there is questions i can't answer, like, did matthew think of us before he pulled the trigger? did he -- was there any moment in which he suffered? why after all those years of prayer and effort did he die? all these things that i have no answers for. and i've put them in this little pot. it's my mystery pot. so here's my hope box. my mystery pot. so every day almost i fill it with another question that i can't answer. but what i know to be true is that god will answer those questions. they will be answered and my hope is very certain. >> i know, matthew was not in

heaven three seconds when all of his questions were answered. >> his life makes sense to him now. >> let's take another short break. i want to continue this about how you managed to get yourselves and your family back on track after the most awful of blows. >> matthew wasn't gay, if he was, he would have loved him unconditionally. it wouldn't have made one difference at all. he was our son. >> he was our son. (growls) (man) that's a good look for you. (woman) that was fun. (man) yeah. (man) let me help you out with the.. (woman)...oh no, i got it. (man) you sure? (woman) just pop the trunk. (man vo) i may not know where the road will lead, but... i'm sure my subaru will get me there. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit...

to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro.

the next powerful storm is going to hit... but it will... that's why there's a new duracell battery. introducing duracell quantum. with its high density core, it's a quantum leap in battery power. the next storm is out there. but so are the heroes. so we're giving a million duracell quantum to first responders everywhere. power. in the hands of the most powerful. duracell. trusted everywhere. vo:remember to changew that oil is the it on schedule toy car. keep your car healthy. power. in the hands of the most powerful.

show your car a little love with an oil change starting at $19.95. >> well, you know the lonely tears, you know the moments we crawl into bed and ask god to take it all away. >> rick and kay are back with me now. is there any sense, rick, despite the appalling despair that you've gone there, is there any sense of relief as a family that matthew is now with god in heaven, out of pain? >> yeah, if i didn't have that hope, i would be in ultimate despair. but we have back in a minute our life, our faith, our family, our ministry on the belief that because of jesus christ and because of what he did on the cross for us, we can have our past forgiven. we have a purpose for living and we have a home in heaven. >> that takes care of my past, my present and my future. >> how much harder has it been for to you deal with the modern

curse, if you like, of internet chatter? people -- >> we ignore it. >> i was going to ask you that. there have been two strands that have been particularly vicious in your case, one of these fake accounts set up supposedly on your behalf to raise money, which is just theft. and you had to shut down hundreds of these things. and secondly the rumor mill. the people trying to say, wow, what happened here was matthew secretly gay and, therefore, your views on homosexuality somehow tipped him over the edge. you know all this. what is your reaction to this? >> well, first, matthew wasn't gay. if he was, we would have loved him unconditionally. it wouldn't have made one difference at all. >> he was our son. >> he was our son. it wouldn't have made any difference at all no doctor would diagnose a patient without seeing him. >> that would be considered unethical. but many bloggers and people on the internet make a diagnosis all the time without any

knowledge of why they're doing it. you have to ignore it. you can't pay any attention to it. we keep what we call a tough skin and a tender heart. >> do you have either of you any big "what if" when you look back on this? do you have anything you think, if we only have tried -- >> okay, that's grief. >> you always second guess yourself in grief. >> that's a part of grief, the what if. i look back at all the years of treatment, all the years of every approach we tried. there i was reading my journal again last night. there were days i'd go what if we had done this, what if we had done that? >> the what if springs to mind for me if, for example, if i was in your position, and thank god i'm not. if i had been, what if knowing he'd acquired an illegal gun you had reported that to the authorities? now, you already said, kay, he always said if you call the police, i'll kill myself. so, obviously, an incredibly difficult what if.

>> absolutely. >> do you think it could have made any difference? >> no, i don't. >> i don't think it would have made a difference in the fact that he was determined. >> he was determined. >> if you are determined, you will take your life. >> sitting here in this moment, it's very clinical. it's very, you know, we can second guess all over the place, but in that moment when you have a mentally ill person who is telling you they're going to take their life and it's your son and you don't want him to take his life, the choices -- mental illness creates so many horrendous choices for families. and we are through talking to professionals, his psychiatrist, we were not making these decisions on our own. >> here's another thing, piers, one thing that needs to change legally is to give families more power in dealing with people who are mentally ill in their family. >> yes. >> because the pendulum has swung the other way to human rights so much that many parents and family members cannot get

conservatorship or control over somebody. they see a life deteriorating, falling apart -- >> doctors won't even talk to family members even when the family member has given permission. >> it breaches the family member's life. >> the mentally ill, this is a quagmire and i don't know how to deal with it i just know it exists that two of the basic rights that the mentally ill have, a right to autonomy and the right to privacy actually stand in the way, many times, of them getting the help that they need. and i don't have good answers. it's a dance. but we've got to do a better job. >> we had to face that time and time again in what we knew was best for matthew we couldn't do by law. >> let's take a final break. i want to come back and talk about your last memory of how you'd like him to be remembered. >> in god's garden of grace, even a broken tree bears fruit.

thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.

i don't miss out... you sat out most of our game yesterday! asthma doesn't affect my job... you were out sick last week. my asthma doesn't bother my family... you coughed all through our date night! i hardly use my rescue inhaler at all. what did you say? how about - every day? coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at asthma.com, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. you want a way to help minimize blood sugar spikes. support heart health. and your immune system. now there's new glucerna advance with three benefits in one. [ male announcer ] new glucerna advance. from the brand doctors recommend most. hearty cheeseburger. creamy thai style chicken with rice. mexican-style chicken tortilla. if you think campbell's 26 new soups sound good, imagine how they taste. m'm! m'm! good!

with me is pastor rick warren and his wife kay. let me ask you this, rick, have you questioned any stage whether you should have done more as rick warren, america's pastor, about this issue of mental health before matthew took his life? >> piers, we've always known since matthew has lived his

entire life with mental illness that one day we would be spokespeople for mental illness. kay and i have known this for years and years. the reason we were quiet was primarily to protect matthew edignity. it was his story to tell. and so we were always praying either a, he'll be healed miraculously or b, we'll get treatment therapy, medicine that helps him manage his disease for the rest of his life and he can tell his story. the only reason that held us back on being public figures on this like we have been on hiv aids and things like that was his own dignity. after he died that issue was gone. >> we didn't want him to endure the scrutiny that's being thrown at rick. he was already struggling to be in the public spotlight, to have people scrutinizing his life -- >> he didn't need that. >> he didn't need that. >> how would you like him to be remembered, kay? >> oh. my funny, quirky, ridiculously silly, deeply compassionate. had such a sense of justice.

we put on his marker, compassionate warrior. that pretty much sums him up. deep compassion. >> we probably received over 30,000 letters of condolences. the letters that meant the most to me were the people that matthew had led to faith in christ. that they're going to be in heaven because of him. and i know the lord, i have a relationship with jesus because of your son over the years. and i remember writing in my journal that in god's garden of grace, even a broken tree bears fruit. and that was true in his life. and i'd like -- you say well, are you happy that it's making a difference? of course i am. i still want my son back. >> absolutely. >> i still want my son back. but as david said in second

samuel, who david lost a son. he said, he will not come back to me, but i will go to him. and that is the hope of heaven that we have. and that will strengthen us even on the darkest day. david says, when i go through the valley of the shadow of death -- wherever there's a shadow there's a light. and so the key to walking through the vail of the shadow of death is to turn your back on the shadow -- which is scary -- and look at the light. and that's how you get through it. >> do you feel he's here now? >> well, i know that he's in heaven looking down on us. and we have many loved ones there. my parents, kay's mom and dad. and that presence of god is more important than the presence of matthew in my life. is that i sense the presence of god in my life very close. but i'm not going through this alone. that's a comfort. >> rick and kay, it's been such an honor and privilege to do this interview. thank you for letting me do it. and my heart goes out to you. it's a heart-breaking story. >> there's hope.

>> but there is hope. >> so important that people know, no matter how desperate their despair there is hope, and not to give up. >> thank you both very much indeed. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com all right. did you maggots load the chickens? what do you need to know? i am an aficionado of eroticism. >> i shoeld should have known that. >> a necklace of spam cans around our necks. i certainly cherish those golden moments. i wish i could hear the