possible government shutdown. we're also a week away from when millions -- remember what president obama promised us right after he took office. >> we will keep this promise to the american people -- if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. if you like your health care plan, we'll be able to keep your health care plan. period. not if you are one of the impacted employees at walgreens or u.p.s., for many conservatives, van, ending obama care isn't about -- it's a mover hazard we think will bankrupt our children, worsen the economy, and worsen unemployment. and we also know that the second

this thing is fully implemented, it will be impossible to peel back. >> well, i think that's a good thing if, in one week here's what's going to happen. the sky will not fall in one week. millions of americans who don't have insurance right now, living in fear of sickness or accident, will be able to go to healthcare.gov and sign up for private health care insurance. that's a good thing. all this fearmongering will turn out to be much ado about nothing. we have professor cornel west here on the stage. he's against repealing obama care, a good man. [ laughter ] alongwide, bill crystal, who is for repealing obama care. >> also a goodman. >> also a good man. >> welcome to both of you. >> i want to start with you, sir. why are you not happy with obama care? why won't you take yes for an

answer? the heritage foundation said we should go with the individual mandate. romney put it into effect. why? >> it's hurting ployment. full-time jobs are not growing at the rate they should be growing. if it's so great, how come the president is postponing and delaying and getting rid of parts of it. why won't catering to business business, you were on the obama administration, you objected to some of the chronnyism. >> let's talk bush. >> the big business shows up at the white house, yes, okay, we'll delay it. little people? not so interested. >> 91% of the job growth has come into place has been full-time employment, not part-time employment. let's talk about the exception that we're making on the business side. don't you think it's responsible for us to implement this thing

in a responsible way to respond to some of these concerns? >> the exchanges has not been texted for security and privacy. >> that's not true. >> it is true. the common-sense legislation said let's delay them until outside people can certify their privacy and security concerns of met. the individual mandate, the senate won't take up that bill. let's delay the parts at least that are very problematic. >> i know you're unhappy with parts of obama care, and most americans want to turn back parts of this legislation as well. why should we continue with this when it's been delayed, and as bill said, classes of people have been exempt from it. it's been changed. why wouldn't we start over, bring people like you and van and bill to the table and have a conversation about legislation that can actually work? >> justice denied is justice

delayed, and justice delayed is justice denied. we should have fought for single payer, tlelgs a public option. we need to take profits out of the health care. too much precious poor and working people are not only excluded, but don't have access to quality. why not have every american sit cyst have the same health care -- my disagreement with brother bill is you privatize. >> congress does not have single payer health care. >> but it's -- >> congress at its fingertips about 300 different options. there's competition in congress. what's going to ends is competition in single payer. >> but 20 million excluded, and still 17 million -- the president's bill needs to be definitive, the right wing is trying to undercut rule of law, blackmail the president and the democratings and subvert at least an extension of the

privatized system. to defend privatized medicine in the 21st century. >> who is exactly creating the miracle drugs? you think getting good people to go to medicine has nothing to do with the fact they can make a good living doing that? >> do you think the doctors are just obsessed with the money? >> i'm not the -- >> they ingauge in technological innovation without being tied to profit and in and out allowing care about -- >> i prefer to have ambitious and -- to think it's a profitable professional as well as worthwhile. >> your magazine "weekly standard" -- i'll give you a plug. >> that's great. >> -- just cake out talking about israel, how plucky israel is. israel has universal health care. are you concerned that israel is on the road too become some sort of country with no work ethic? if it's good enough for aural allies in israel, why can't we

have it. >> it's great to have you be so pro-israel here. you know, originally it was more or less a socialist country. that is been better. >> but their health care system is -- inert, vault has the health care -- -- >> one thing it doesn't -- >> i would like to see my brother defend this. >> heads are exploding. >> absolutely. >> in a certain way single payer and public option has a coherency. the canadian system was pretty good for quite a while. i think eventually these do run aground, because they don't have market forces and signals, but obama is certainly the worst of both worlds. cutting deals he wanted deals

with pharma. if you're on the left, you should be fighting for public option. this is the worst of chronny capitalism. >> no, we fought and lost, but it would be in some wayings israeli occupation of palestinians. do they have universal health care there? it's a matter of trying to be inclusive. the problem is you have issues of race and class, those in the hoods, those on the reservations, in the barrios, they are not even part of the conversation. in the same way it's hard for palestinians to be hard of the conversation with our jewish brothers in the state of israel. >> medicaid is what you said. single pair public option. do you want to spread medicaid -- >> we're talking about medicare to medicaid. >> it's not single payer public option. >> i want to know what you want, though, sir. >> i'm for conservative reform. it has to be reformed.

>> let me lay this out and you tell me where i'm wrong. right now, we have the worst of all possible worlds. if somebody gets hit by a bus we're not going to let them die. we give them health care right now. you've got to be in one of at least camps. you're either in the let them die camp or pro-moocher camp, or you've got to be in the individual man dade camps. are you pro-moocher or -- >> yes, pro-moocher. >> across the board i'm pro-moocher. the fact is that it distorts the system less to give what is in effect free emergency care to people who irresponsibleably didn't take out insurance to distort the entire insurance system to try to ma maniacically industry to give incensives to insure and get all these young people -- >> if you wait for the last moment of catastrophe, then the

costs will go up. private insurance companies are in the driver's seat, be it obama care, or pre-obama care. >> since we all agree we should get back to grounds and rethink it, let's delay -- >> justice delayed is justice denied. >> bad policy -- bad policy. >> 50 years! >> professor west, let me take a turn for a second. you talk a lot about dig nit. isn't dignity found inself reliance? i understand you're for government responsibility, but what about personal responsibility? >> very important. but keep in mind when you talk about dignity, you have to talk about context and conditions under which dignity can actually be realized. you talk about self-determination, you have to ensure they have a voice over the process. part of the problem in this debate over obama care, most

poor and working people have not had their voices heard. we brought in the elite, you brought in big insurance. >> no argument there. let's talk more about it, but we are shoving this down -- >> who is in the white house and running congress when all this happened? >> no, it was milquetoast democrats, but that's better than cold-hearted mean-spirited republicans. >> cold-hearted republicans are better than milquetoast democrats. no, no. when we come back from commercial, i have a question, republicans have been beating up on obama care, it's the only bill that might get insurance. when i come back, i'm going to ask mr. crystal a question denver whatever happened to conpassionate conservatives? [ female announcer ] what if the next big thing, isn't a thing at all?

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crystal, i do not understand how you guys expect to grow the gop. you're attacking obama care, it's the only thing out there -- i hear about cantaloupe calves, a food stamp president. i don't hear the compassion in this party? does that worry you? >> i think republicans need to grow, and i think the big mistake was not having an commit message, and explained that we are -- that republicans do have policy proposals to help grow wages and jobs. i think some conservatives are talking about financial reform, so i'm for it. i'm with you on that, but not to have republicans become like milquetoast democrats. i think that's an extremely good phrase that we need to dwell on a bit more.

they don't stand up for their appointees in the white house when they're a little controversy krallial, they throw a fine man like larry summers under the bus. >> fine man, god bless him and be with him. the problem is you have to have something that you're willing to fight for. >> i agree. >> if you've got single payer, people are willing to fight. public option, people are willing to fight, but if you've got this middle of the road position, you've got to get your troops out. >> i agree -- republicans need to give alternatives and not just be negative, but let me turn van's question around. i remember back during the campaign when mitt romney went into west philadelphia. mayor nutter protested his visit say why is this guy here? mitt romney was buyed by the naacp. is there an interest and willingness to have a dialogue with white republicans on any issue? >> sure. sure. my god, we black folk, we have

been some of the most open-minded, forgiving and embracing people in the nation. in fact we have clarence thomass within our own community. but the issue is this that's morally obscene and spiritually profane, poor people, 4 million poor people -- >> how much did food stamps go up? doubled. >> and how much poverty -- >> because the crisis of capitalism. wages have been going down. >> who has been the president the last four years. i thought the economy was roars back. >> but brother bill -- >> did they try to trim and that's morally obscene? >> but when you have neoliberalism that goes hand in and. privatized militarized support big bank ended and corporations. the escalation of poverty, so

yes, you're right, we've got a lot of food stamps increases because of what? people are suffering. >> but dr. west -- >> i feel i have to -- >> if it's not the president, it's the neoliberal politics of the whole democratic party. >> median household income has dropped by more than $4,000 adjusted for inflation, poverty rate is up. >> top 1%, 95% of all income growth. president obama admitted that the folks in the middle and at the bottom haven't seen wage or income growth. >> exactly. >> that the folks at the top have. >> here hayes something that i think we can agree on, the political party of 2016 addresses these problems. i don't think honestly the obama administration has done much on. that i think a political candidate could win on that in

2016. >> people are beating up on president obama, but you may look at the last ticket. do you agree with people like mitt romney, that worse, you have a paul ryan who says as many as 60% of americans are takers, not makers. to get to that number you have to include every single person, every social security, every veteran, every disabled person, do you believe that 60% of americans are takers? do you agree with that? >> no. well, i don't think that's quite fair to paul ryan, because he was trying to explain something more an litically. when romney said the 40% thing, i thought he's probably lost the presidency. >> it was a mistake we will probably pay for for a while. >> but that part of the cold-hearted mean-spiritedness, you agree that that statement is -- >> well, i -- >> do you agree --

>> it's just foolish, silly. >> it's bad message. you can be tough-minded about improves them, targeting them, not having food stamps double without being cold-hearted and mean-spirited. >> brother bill, your duty-iism which is one of the great moral breakthroughs in terms of weakness, how do you reconcile that with your ties to big corporations for these cold-hearted mean-spirited people when it come does working people? >> i think the obama administration is the one who has been in bed with that. >> mitt romney? you supported sarah palin. >> her policies, my god. >> you're just going to say --

>> but how can you not admire a woman like sarah palin who picked herself up by her bootstraps, five kids, one born disabled. she made her way up from nothing to become the mayor, city councilwoman, the first woman governor of alaska, and vice presidential candidate. how is she not the example of the kind of life you would want for most americans? >> because even given her upward mobility, her temperment -- >> because she's a republican. that's it. >> i think both party, both parties need to be radically called into question. see, i am a thorough goeing leftist. i don't go with the milquetoast conservatives, mean-spirited. this is true on foreign policy. drones. killing innocent people.

>> oh, you don't have to convince me that obama's foreign policy -- >> rand paul for me is strong on this issue, and i agree with him on this issue. >> let my interrupt you. you talk a lot about love and forgiveness and all that type stuff. and frankly -- >> i am a jesus loving, free blackman. >> yes, you are. i think people feel like this critique that you exsend is important. but they wonder where your love is for this president. >> i have a righteous indiggs nation for who uses the legacy the of martin luther king to use drones to kill innocent people. larry summers, god bless him. is he tied to wall street more

than main street? god love him. it's not a hatred. it's looking at the evidence. >> you're my mentor. you're my friend. >> and i've learned so much from you, my brother. >> we all walking in your footstep, but i think when i listen to african-americans, there are some that our greatest intellectual. you are going to go down in history, you've got the first black president. where is the love? >> the love is first for the suffering people. see, that's the righteous indignation. that's what it means to go into the temple in jerusalem and run out the money changers. >> let me challenge you, bill, my friend here on the right. i look at the republican party right now, and while, yes, it seems fractured.

it seems like a great opportunity. why can't we have a chris christi and a rand paul and/or a ted cruz and have that be a wonderful thing instead of a division. >> mitt romney and george hw bush, they were dominant, we have republican party, with chris christi, that's not even a bench. they're on the field. people in the senate like tom cotton and yes, ted cruz. i can't resist saying that. these guys are in their 30s, 40s, it's the next generation. >> i want to thank you cornell west, we're going to see if there's one thing that both of

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tonight on crossfire, we've been debating obamacare. now let's call a cease-fire. is there anything we can agree on? i think, van, that you and i both want to return to compassionate conservatism. that we think that that's been missing. i happen to see it in folks like mike pence, paul ryan.

but it's good for the party and good for the debate. >> newt gingrich, for instance. >> i know him. >> happens to be our coa-host. i do think that we're better when both parties are better. >> i think conservatism is at its best when it's either making a strong intellectual argument like barry goldwater, irving crystal. that's w on a lot of issues. and that kind of emotional connection has been missing. >> i think it's good for everybody to bring a little more heart and soul back. we are glad to talk about some things that we agree on. the debate is going to continue online at cnn.com/crossfire. from the left i'm van jones.

and from the right, i'm se cupp. out front, terrorists slauting more than 60 people at a popular mall. nearly 200 others are wounded, including americans. we are going to talk a woman tonight who was inside that mall. plus a concert turns into a mass casualty event. authorities are blaming a powerful new narcotic. and 80 political prisoners have been released by iran. one, a former american marine remains behind bars. what is america doing to free him? an exclusive out front report. let's go out front. ♪