it is now midnight. the u.s. government has officially shut down. piers morgan live takes over our coverage now. >> this is cnn breaking news. >> this is piers morgan live. welcome to our viewers in the united states and the rest of the world. you're looking live at the capitol. the government and the united states of america has shut down. it hasn't happened for 17 years. but now it has. we'll see effects is almost immediately, the washington monument, the heart of the capital, closed.

the statue of liberty, to billions around the world the epitome of freedom and democracy shut down. across the corrupt, the st. louis gateway arch closed. some 800,000 people will be furloughed in the next few hours. listen to president obama earlier this evening. >> the shutdown will have a very real economic impact on real people. right away. >> what are the numbers? the shutdown could cost the u.s. economy roughly a billion dollars a week in lost pay for federal work hes. there are estimates of a three-or four week shut down and costs the country. i'm hoping that you can make sense of this because to me, a british guy over here is a great guest of your great country, i find this utterly baffling.

>> i can't imagine it will last very long. i think it could last a few hours or a few days. the last time it happened, back in early 1996, december '95, january '96, it lasted for about 20 days in the previous november, lasted for five days. it could last a few days. but eventually cooler heads will prevail. they'll come up with some sort of way to get the government funded because the consequences are enormous. as bad as the consequences, piers, are right now and they're going to be pretty bad especially if this stays shut for the next several days or weeks, october 17th, the u.s. government has to raise the debt ceili ceiling. otherwise it can't pay its bills and the economic ramifications for millions and millions of americans and people all over the world because the dollar is so important would be more serious. so there's enormous amount at stake right now and cooler heads have to prevail. they have to get their act

together. >> does congress realize how ridiculous is appears to the rest of the world? >> it depends on who you're talking to. nobody wants a government shutdown. the democrats don't want it, the republicans don't want it. but they're fighting right now over what so many republicans believe is an abomination. the health care reform law was passed by the house, passed by the senate, approved by the united states supreme court. it's now the law of the land. today, october 1st, people can start signing up to get insurance. people who didn't have insurance, people who are pre-existing conditions. but for a lot of these republicans, they hate it and are willing to see the government shutdown unless there can be substantive changes and the democrats say the president says nos way. there aren't going to be any changes with them pointing to this government shutdown as a threat. so it's going to continue a little bit. let's see how long it lasts. >> wolf, you're a veteran of these. i saw footage of you earlier

covering the '95 shutdown. what are the parallels here? there you are, looking magnificent even then. you've barely aged. look a lot older than i do. in terms of the parallels here, last time the republicans got the blame, is this just as john mccain said to me the same movie being replayed. >> the republicans are being blamed more than the democrats in our brand new cnn poll that came out today. the republicans will be blamed. a lot of those republicans who served back in '95, '96 are fully aware of what happened then. what happened then was very obvious. it helped propel bill clinton to get re-elected in 1996. he was in deep trouble and his job approval numbers were not good, but coming out of those two government shutdowns, he went ahead and he never looked back. he beat bob dole in his bid to get re-elected. a lot of republicans including john boehner remember that, but

there are plenty of them in congress who don't remember what happened then and are willing to fight this fight right now topher obama care. it's going to be a brutal fight. you know, there's other ways to fight this battle, but they're insisting on fighting it right now. i suspect though eventually, probably sooner rather than later, john boehner will find a way to get there be some sort of clean resolution without any springs attached that will allow the government to fund it and they can fight their battles over obama care elsewhere. >> live footage from the senate. i think that was chuck schumer i just saw speaking. let's see what's going on. >> but nothing we can do with this resolution. >> nothing we can doing >> until. >> they're over there now negotiating with themselves i guess. >> yeah. because isn't it true, leader, that until they vote for that resolution, the government will remain shut? >> that is absolutely. >> they can send us a hundred

different little doo dads, gizmos and other things but the ball is in their court and we hope and wish that it is our wish, isn't that true, sir, that they keep pass our resolution and that would keep the government open? >> it's in their court and has been in their court. >> thank you, leader. >> is there objection? >> live footage there. quite obviously, wolf, before i come to you, wolf, i want to play president obama who recorded this message to the military. this is post the shutdown. so the first we've seen of the president since the shutdown was confirmed. >> hi, everybody. as president and as your commander in chief, i've worked to make sure you have the strategy, the resources, and the support you need to complete the missions our nations asks of you. and every time you've met your responsibilities and pinched with extraordinary professionalism, skill and courage. unfortunately, congress has not

fulfilled its responsibility. it's failed to pass a budget and as a result, much of our government must now shutdown until congress funds it again. secretary hagel, general dempsey and your commanders will have nor information how this affects you and your families. today i want to speak directly to you about what happens next. those of you in uniform will remain on your normal duty status. the threats to our national security have not changed and we need you to be ready for any contingency. on going military operations like our efforts in afghanistan will continue. if you're serving in harm's way, we're going to make sure have you what you need to succeed in your missions. congress has passed and i'm signing into law legislation to make sure you get your paychecks on time. and we'll continue working to address any impact this shutdown has on you and your families. to all our dod civilians, i know the days ahead could mean more

uncertainty including furloughs. i know this comes on top of the furloughs that many of you already endured this summer. you and your families deserve better than the dysfunction we're seeing in congress. your talents and dedication help keep our military the best in the world. that's why i'll keep working to get congress to reopen our government and get you back to work as soon as possible. finally, i know this shutdown occurs against the background of broader changes, the war in iraq is over. the war in afghanistan will end next year. after more than i an decade of unprecedented operations, we're moving off a war footing. yes, our military will be leaner. and as a nation, we face difficult budget choices going forward. but here's what i want you to know. i'm going to keep fighting to get rid of those across the board budget cuts, the sequester, which are hurting our military and our economy. we need a responsible approach that deals with our fiscal challenges and keeps our

military and our economy strong. and i'm going to make sure you stay the greatest military in the world, bar none. that's what i'm fighting for. that's what you and your families deserve. on behalf of the american people, thank you for your service, which keeps us free. and thank you for your sacrifice which keeps our nation and our military the greatest force for freedom that the world has ever known. god bless you and your families and god bless the united states of america. >> first reaction from president obama to the official shutdown of the united states government at midnight. i want to the bring in also gloria borger, jim acosta at the white house and christine romans with me in new york. dana bash, this has happened, many feared that it might. and it actually has. what is the immediate reaction you're getting there? who is to blame? how long will it last? >> who's to blame? we're going to see what happens and whether or not the reality matches the polls beforehand and

the fear among republicans, frankly, that they are the ones who will get the blame. that is the big reason why john bane area, the house speaker didn't want to go down this route in the first place. remember, he wanted to pass a bill that just funded the government and worry about the other things that they wanted to do dealing with the debt ceiling in the negotiations in the next three weeks. he was unable to do that. he didn't have the votes to do it within his republican caucus. that's why they set out the series of votes they have lost each time dealing with chipping away at obama care. when will this end? we simply don't know. over the weekend, a senior republican said to me of the conservatives in the house caucus, we just have to let them touch the stove enough times so they realize they're going to get burn. what is unclear right now, piers, is how burn they feel or whether or not they feel the burn yet. and it just seems as though watching john boehner and the

house leadership go through the motions, which they're not even done with tonight or i guess early this morning, they're still going to have another vote, probably the next few hours to revote on what they did earlier tonight and then say there should be negotiations effectively which the senate said give me a break. this is nonnegotiable. it's really up in the air and depends how the markets react in the morning when they open and the kind of blowback that members of congress, particularly republicans get because democrats have made it very clear they are not budging, nothing. they will not give up on anything that is not a clean no strings attached bill to fund the government. they feel that just when it comes to basic negotiations, if they give in on this which is just a six-week bill to get the government open, they are going to be completely in a horrible position when it comes to the big negotiations on the debt ceilinging in a few weeks which of course, if that doesn't work out, it could end up

catastrophic. >> jim acosta, have we heard anything from the white house or the president other than the video we saw that he gave to the military? >> well, we have that video that the president delivered to the military that apparently went out to armed forces around the world. interesting juxtaposition there, piers, as you're seeing congress wrangling with each other and arguing and fighting over whether to fund the government another six weeks and this whole notion of defunding or delaying obama care, you're seeing the president acting as commander in chief telling the armed forces and troops out there to stay on guard, stay on their posts. don't worry, the money will keep coming because the president said he signed ta bill to protect their an pay earlier tonight. one other thing did come out and this is this right here, a letter from the office of management and budget director sylvia burwell ordering departments and agencies of the federal government to the start shutting down. i'll read a quote from it. it's not the sexiest document in the world. unfortunately, we do not have a

clear indication that congress will act in time for the president to sign a continuing resolution before the end of the day tomorrow. october 1st, 2013, therefore, agencies should now, acute plans for an orderly shutdown due to the absence of appropriations. the term orderly shutdown by puzzle some viewers out there as shutdowns probably are not going to be very orderly. certainly not for all the tourists coming to washington expecting their parks and their monuments and museums to be open. that is not going to happen for the first time since there was a clinton in the white house and a gingrich up on capitol hill, this government is shut down, piers. >> gloria borger, when i hear the statue of liberty, the absolute emblem of freedom and democracy around the world has just been closed, shut down because of this, i can't really believe what i'm seeing. have you seen washington ever so dysfunctional that it would allow this to happen over what should have been a regulation

debate and dispute about the program of obama care? >> i think this could be a high water mark or a low water mark, depending on how you look at it. i've never seen sort of ad hoc government like this before. you know, in talking to a senior house republican member earlier tonight, i said what's going to happen next. he said i honestly don't have any idea. i think the problem with that is that the american public, which already doesn't trust government, piers, at all, looks at this and says, wait a minute. we don't trust government already and now you can't even manage it at all. and you know, congress's approval rating is 10%. yes, the president may have the upper hand right now. i believe he does. but at a certain point, the energy of governance has to come from the white house. and this has to get resolved. and the irony of all of this to me quite honestly is that republicans in the house have stepped on their own message.

today obama care begins. if they had problems with it, it would have been a perfect opportunity to talk about those problems and the glitches in it. instead, we're talking about shutting down the government. and not the issue they really want to talk about, which is the president's health care plan. so i believe that's sort of a message problem for them, as well and they've done this all in trying to appeal to the republican base. >> i'm getting bombarded with tweets here many like this from a guy called chris ham by, be great if politicians everywhere did right by the people for a change instead of self-serving. this is the point, christine. the vast majority of americans are scratching their heads saying how has it come to this? >> and you look at this, as well, piers, the obama care implementation is mandatory spending. you have guaranteed the implementation of obama care. we're talking about the statue of liberty closes. there are going to be weddings

canceled at some of these locations. let's be clear. social security checks will go out. medicare, doctors will be paid. your doctor will be reimbursed for medicare and implementation of obama care continues. some of these agencies will be running at 60 or 70% of normal staff. there be work done. it will be slowed. there will be hangups. it's going to be a nightmare but there are big parts of the government going forward like getting your social security check because that's the e-mail that i'm getting. people who don't think they're going to get a check. >> people are tweeting it, piers why is your biggest worry the statue of liberty, not the thousands of people without jobs to go to. of course, jobs are more important. when you have something as iconic as the statue of liberty, the message it sends the rest of the world is washington is completely dysfunctional. >> we're the biggest business in the world and we just put up the closed for business sign which

seems crazy. you have all these families living paycheck to paycheck. one america is moving aheadch quickly. it's counterproductive to close government when you need it to help people. there's a rowdy caucus in the house who thinks business as usual is bad and they're not going to do business as usual. >> christine, dana, wolf blitzer, thank you all very much. when we come back, a top democrat and republican go head to head over who's to blame and are there any real winners in all this? to work. make my mark with pride. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars.

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>> live in capitol hill tonight. the government is shutting down. in fact, early as of this morning, joining me now is debbie wasserman-schultz, and congressman james lankford of oklahoma, the chair of the house republican policy committee. right, you two. let me start by the a gentle bone toss your way which has on it a stain on both your houses. debbie, how do you plead?

>> well, i plead with my colleagues who really should just go to the floor and let 218 members of the house of representatives not only 218 republicans decide what legislation we are going to send to the senate and then to the president. and unfortunately, because the tail is wagging the dog and extremists have been allowed to run the republican conference, we are now shut down. we are jeopardizing our economy. we have furloughed 800,000 federal employees and that is all in the name of denying millions of people access to quality affordable health care. it's mind boggling. >> why is it that newt gingrich and bill clinton in the last shutdown 17 years ago spoke every single day during that period to try and get something done? and this time we understand, the president has only spoken to john boehner twice in a week? >> well, they certainly should be talking. >> why aren't they talking?

>> well, they're not talking because the only thing the republicans are willing to talk about is whether or not we are going to delay or defund or repeal obama care. we've voted on that 45 times in the house of representatives. there's not much else to talk about if that's the only thing they want to talk about. if they want to talk about the spending levels that we're going to have in the continuing resolution, great. that's appropriate for this discussion and debate. but you know, in my colleagues' home state essentially what we're talking about is denying the 89,000 young adults who can now stay on their tharnts' insurance till they're 26 years old and almost 700,000 people who now get health insurance. >> james lankford, you're going to get the blame, no question. you did last time and it looks like john boehner's lost control of a renegade element of his party. although i think president obama has been a pretty poor negotiating here, he has got a

point. this is law. he was re-elected with that being the law. people gave him another mandate for this huge obama care plan that he had. why the hull should he be wasting his time negotiating with people that just want to bring him down? >> not only was he re-elected, so were we re-elected. people in a constitutional government all have a representative and a senator and a president. they all have different opinions. they work it out. as you mentioned before, newt gingrich and bill chont sat down and worked it out. tonight we asked for a conference committee to say let's conference with the senate. that's how we've worked things out when jefferson wrote the rules in about conferences between the house and senate when we get to an impasse, you sit down and have a conference. we're going through the process tonight to say we've done three different proposals over in the senate. all those rejected by the senate. now we hear harry reid says he's going to table that and not even going to meet 0 discuss these things. as my colleague mentioned, we've

sent 45 things over to the senate which they just ignore everyone. at some point we have to sit down and talk about these things, no the just send things over to the senate one after another and pretend they didn't occur. there are real concerns and real problems with the affordable care act. there are real issues that have to be addressed there. >> here's the thing though. robert, here's the thing. nobody disputes that. everyone knows it's a huge program and there are parts which need to be modified, changed, maybe dropped. but debbie wasserman-schultz, here i come back to the main problem again is that there doesn't appear to be a sensible grown-up on going dialogue between the two people who matter most, speaker boehner and president obama. you know them both well. you know the president very well. what is wrong with the president that he can't just pick up a phone or go and see speaker boehner or get him to many could and see him on a day i basis until they thrash out a deal? isn't that the way any bes gets

done. >> president obama has made it very clear as we plymouth obama care which is going to happen, this is a settled matter. we are not going to repeal or delay nor should we obama care. even the people who have been polled that oppose obama care think we shouldn't have shut down the government over it and think we shouldn't defund or delay it. what we should do is what we have done since the 1900s in america and that is when a law has problems that we've passed, we sit down and work together and we hammer out those problems. we don't hold the economy hostage repeatedly until we get our way. the implementation of obama care has nothing do with the continuing resolution. has nothing to do with whether we are going to fund the essential needs of this government. they are separate. they should be treated separately and now we have shut the government down because the republicans won't just let it go. >> james lankford, are you proud of what the republicans have done tonight? >> no, this is the great challenge, piers. i wish we could just sit down

and work this out. 45 times we sent something over to the senate and said let's sit down and talk about this. we finally reach a point that something like this, we think that the house and senate should sit down and be able to work together. we thought tonight's proposal was reasonable. we've agreed upon a budget number and we added two requests to it, that members of congress and the white house are included in obama care. it's in the original law. the white house changed it with a waiver. we said no, you can't do that. that's not legal in the law. so members of congress and the white house should be in the exchanges like every other american. the second thing was in the first year of obama care, individuals should not have to pay penalties and a tax on it, just for the first year. that's already been done for businesses. we said we think it should be for individuals. it's an extremely confusing law. a lot of people misunderstand it. they're going to make a mistake and get a penalty for making a mistake. we felt like in the first year, they shouldn't have a mistaking

>> you're missing the bigger point which it is law. it is law and therefore, a debate about what is existing law should not lead to the government being shut down. it seems utterly pure rile. i've got to leave it there. >> members in congress, that's in the law, as well. >> go bang their heads together. get speaker boehner and president obama in a room tonight. get it done for the american people. >> piers, we need to put a house bill on the floor that gets 218 votes, not 218 votes of republicans. that's how the american democratic process, would and the republicans are only allowing republicans to make decisions and extremist once at that. it's unacceptable. >> check the vote count. we've had democrats on all our votes for every time we sent stuff over, we've had democrats join us on every single one. >> let's let the housework its will and reopen the government. >> we're ending with you two in agreement. thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> is the tea party coming out

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>> looking live at the statue of liberty. but you won't get much closer to it for a while. it's shut down along with the federal government. is all a sign of the tea party's re-emerging power. joining me now is amy kremer. welcome to you. >> thanks for having me. >> are you happy about the shutdown tonight. >> no, we didn't advocate for this. we didn't want this. this is harry reid's shutdown.

he is responsible for this. he's brought us to this point. >> right. so the it's entirely the democrats' fault that a bunch of republicans -- >> piers, hello. how many times. >> trying to defund obama care. >> how many times have we sent legislation to the senate and harry reid just continues to table it? i mean, why not debate it on the floor. have an up or down vote. as a matter of fact, we have democrats that have come out against obama care. i mean the unions are against it. even the person that wrote it max baucus has called it a train wreck. it's like harry reid is acting like a spoiled brat crossing his arms. there's nothing wrong with obama care. we're not going to discuss it. as if they keep saying it's not true. no, it's failing. we need to have this discussion. if it's so great, what are they afraid of. >> obama care passed both chambers. it was signed into law upheld by the supreme court and, of course, was front and center in barack obama's re-election last

year. so all in all -- >> i completely disagree with you. >> the president has a fairly good claim to say we've been down this road. >> no, no, no. >> what the hell does this have to do with shutting down the government? >> no, this legislation was passed not with one republican vote. it wasn't passed through the normal process. they had to use a procedural trick to get it through. >> amy, it's -- amy you may not like. >> don't tell me that the -- that the election was about obama care because you know what, had the american people known all this negative stuff coming out now, i think that the results of the last election would have been different because they had believes the president they could keep their doctor, their plan, it would decrease. >> amy, the problem is -- amy, the problem it's not only law it's democracy. and if the american people didn't like obama that much, they could have which can kicked him out of the last election but they re-elected him. >> we also re-elected the house of representatives.

>> john bane ker said obama care is law. the people have had their say. so what the hell is going on? >> after this legislation was shoved down our throats in 2009, 2010, we elected a republican house, the house controls the first strings. your house of representatives is our most direct form of representation in washington, d.c. and we control the house. i mean, that's a fact. yes, he may have been re-elected but the house was also re-elected into conservative hands. republican hands. and we are having this conversation which we should be having. harry reid sat on the bill when the house passed the cr on saturday night at 12:30 p.m. it, harry reid sat on that bill for almost 38 hours. had he brought the senate back into session then, we'd have 38 more hours right now to be dealing with. but harry reid didn't do that. he let everybody take the day off. now here we are. harry reid wants a shutdown because he believes it's a

political victory for the democrats in 2014. no one's talking about how harry reid and the white house was threatening a government shutdown on july 26th if it the sequester was not rolled back. >> amy kremer, thank you very much indeed. coming next, the bickering and blaming on both sides of the aisle led to the shutdown. how long will it go on for? i'll ask the expert after the break. >> because the republicans are on the floor of the house with a phony procedural vote that is not going anywhere and the government is shut down. in the nation, we know how you feel about your car. so when coverage really counts, count on nationwide insurance. because what's precious to you is precious to us. ♪ love, love is strange just another way we put members first. because we don't have shareholders.

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>> the the scene live at the white house tonight. the government has officially shutdown while obama care is set to begin today. joining me now senior political analyst david gergen, ryan liz za and josh barrow. what a stellar panel to have at 12:39 a.m. david gergen, 17 years since the last shutdown. what do you make of this? is it exactly the same story replayed now 17 years later? >> no, and you know, piers, the last few years we've been saying politics can't get any worse in this country and tonight it just did. this is utter stupidity. it goes well beyond what happened in '95, '96, late '95.

in that case, by the way, the two shutdowns, newt gingrich and the republicans were on top in washington. bill clinton was underneath. after the two shutdowns it flipped so clinton got upper hand. after that they got things done. i think there's some possibility that could happen with president obama. >> ryan liz za, there seems to be a very fractured relationship between john boehner and barack obama. they don't seem to be able to be have nel proper line of on going communication. without that, how do you get anything done? >> well, i think that's part of it. the bigger part, frankly, is there's a split between john boehner and the right wing of his conference. and every time that boehner has reached out to obama, his conference has said no, we don't like it when you do that. we think you burn us when you negotiate with obama. i honestly think that this really isn't a story of

democrats versus republicans at least the last two weeks. this is a story of republicans versus republicans. this started when a group of 80 house republicans said to john boehner, we want to use the threat of a government shutdown to try and roll back obama care. previously to that, john boehner said no, that was a bad strategy. so this whole thing got started because john boehner is a weak speaker of the house and couldn't control his republican conference. i hate to put things so baldly as that and not to play the game it's one side versus the other. that's at the root of this and it's a fair assessment. so the i disagree with you there. i don't think this goes back 0 obama and boehner not being able to work things out. >> okay. ben ferguson, the blame laid well and squarely there on john boehner's inability to control his own troops. what is your reaction to that?

>> i think that's ridiculous. you can see it from both sides. you see the democrats. you saw it in debbie wasserman-schul wasserman-schultz. there is this pure i think bitterness, anger on both sides. they're both yelling at each other in tv instead of in a private room. i think cooler heads have to prevail. i mean, you can't walk out there and say as the president of the united states in america tonight, well, they're not going do me any favors and i don't have to give in to anything. at some point you've got to walk into a room and say the president of the united states of america, this is affecting people's lives. we're not going to negotiate in the public anymore. we'll all come to the white house in a meeting and work this crap out before it gets real serious. that's what's going to have to happen here for us to move forward. i jokingly said a moment ago to a rend, you know what, i wish when the government shutdown, that meant that every microphone in front of a politician also shut down. because they'd figure this out

in about five minutes. they couldn't be on tv anymore. >> i talked to bill clinton last week. he was telling me whether he was negotiating with vladimir putin or newt gingrich, the principle remained the same with anyone who was a opponent you were talking to. don't do anything to embarrass nem in public or human millate them. in private, go at them hard. expect them to come at you hard. make it one-on-one, man-to-man, woman to woman and get can stuff done. i don't see that happening. i think actually ryan liz za has a good point. it is a fraud republican party. there's not a good enough relationship between the two key people on either side. >> that's a good principle for negotiations between two principle who have the ability to make commitments on behalf of the people they're representing. john boehner is not a principal here. he is driven by his caucus. three weeks ago, john boehner

and eric cantor were trying to put together a plan that would have led to almost exactly what's come out of democratic senate now. they were going to pass a continuing resolution that funded the government at the levels contemplated in the continuing resolution and that would have had a provision funding obama care that the senate could send directly to the president without it coming back to the house. three weeks ago john boehner wanted to cave on this. he's been forced by his caucus not to give that up. what is he supposed to discuss in a negotiation with the president? the president is going to say i'm not doing something that delays or defunds obama care. boehner has to say i'm not authorized to another gate on that. >> ryan lizza, you have a very good point. >> i want to add thing. >> >> the point i would make to you, are we dealing with essentially two quite weak leaders here? >> yes, look, i think there's something to that. i don't want to suggest that

there aren't major differences between obama and boehner and a major problem with their relationship. there are incredible differences between the two parties. all i'm saying here is, we should never shut the government down and one party, whether it's democrats or republicans shouldn't use the threat of a shutdown to get their way to get their policy. all you have to do is pass a continuing resolution and 800,000 employees won't be out of jobs tomorrow or at least temporarily. it's a process point about using the threat of a government shutdown. >> but piers, the government. >> you're champing at the bit. >> it's after midnight. the government is shutdown. so right now, you got to clear the whole table if you're john boehner or the president of the united states of america and realize, the government shutdown. you can each go out on tv and each say that the other one's a terrorist and an evil person. the other person won't negotiate.

it doesn't matter because it's shutdown. i would hope one will say enough of the thee attics. we're going to go into a room and stop talking in the media. nobody wins this in situation. >> david, hang on one second. let's come back with david gergen's take of it. there's nobody more experienced probably in the world than david gergen analyzing this. let's come back after the break and get his take. i have low testosterone. there, i said it.

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>> live at the famous panda cam at the national zoo is going to shut down. of course, it is. everyone enjoyed it so let's shut it down. back with us now, david gergen, they're shutting down the panda cams. this is serious times. a tweet from reverend louis. will we ever see a government of the people, by the people, for the people again? you're the man to ask. will we? >> listen, i think we can again. this is about more than john

boehner and barack obama and their relatively weaknesses. they are relatively weak. it's about a breakdown of a political culture. we've descended into a form. and arc can i. this congress cannot put together a sensible plan. it's going to take presidential leadership. more than that, this government by the people, what we need now is for the people to rise up and raise hell. if politicians in washington go if they can't see the light, make them feel the heat. if seniors rise up and talk about their social security, businessmen, ceos, if the labor unions and others come down hard on this, washington will get the message. it will scare the dickens out of them and they'll get something done. then we could have a silver lining. the main thing right now is not i don't know get a settlement but purge the system of all this animosity and craziness before we get to the default. make sure we get something we get to some sort of truce in the

next two weeks so that we don't have a default. >> i wish i could be confident of that. jose barro, i was sort of shaking my head myself because i don't see any will now on the more extreme sides of either party to do any kind of business oth. >> i'm very pessimistic. i think the republican party has a base more interested in breaking the federal government than making it work. so long as it continues to be true, we'll muddle through. we will get a debt limit increase when it's needed because republicans when there's real pressure on them from the center of the electorate that will punish them for breaking everything, that's when them have to come to the table. that's what they did in january when we had the fiscal cliff and they agreed to a new deal that raised the debt ceiling. that will happen again this time with the stock market and -- but anything that -- doesn't absolutely have to be done. >> ryan lizza is jumping in. >> i think you're being be

overly optimistic. remember the pressure on the fiscal cliff was that taxes were going to rise. there was a pretty serious policy reason for republicans to not want that to happen. what happens with the debt default depends on what lessons both parties take from this can current debate. if the republicans extract some policy concessions from white house over the government shutdown, what does that do to the psychology of the republicans and the house going into the debt default? maybe it worked with the shutdown. maybe it's not such a big gamble to extract more policy concessions. >> let me ask ben this question because there's a bigger thing here at play. there's the 2016 election. you guys have lost twice now. you're desperate to get back into power. how is that going to happen if your own party is so obviously fractured when the likes of john mccain are so diametrically

opposed to the ted kuz brigade, where do you get any kind of nominee who will win an election who manages to please everybody? >> look, i think john mccains are on their way out. that's the reason why they weren't able to win the presidential election. they're not the new type of conservative that is coming in and they're not going to sit there and act like they're all high and mighty 24/7 like john mccain is like he's better than everybody else. i want to get back to the shutdown for a moment. i think most people in congress have the 17th on their calendar and it's big. he think the next ten days, they know they can play politics. they know they'll get something done by the 17th and know they'll not have america default and try to use that to their advantage politically. that's where you're going to see a deal done. the government has shutdown before. everyone's still living and we all survived and people didn't die. this is part of the ugly thing of government and watching the

sausage be made. >> ben, let me go to david gergen to wrap this up. in all your years, in all your experience and all the congresses you've seen, the senates you've seen, when you put it all together, vefr known it as bad as this, the actual polarizing between the two camps? >> no. i can't remember a time. there's been anger. but i must say, i think especially during the world war ii generation period, the presidents kennedy through bush senior, we had a very different kind of politics. people were strong republicans or strong democrats but they thought they served under one flag. that was pretty darn important to them that's broken down. you've got a new generation now that is not hacking it very well. i think the younger generation is much more promising. but we're going through a really terrible period. i don't think any of us were alive in the 18 0s, 1890s, but

that's the last time you can remember politics as rancid as we have now. >> a pretty damning verdict as many are seeing as one of the most dysfunctional d.c.s. the government is shutdown. that's it. closed down after 17 years since the last time. the panda cam is shut tomorrow. a lot of stuff will be shut tomorrow because a bunch of politicians couldn't get their act into gear. congratulations to all of you. cnn's live coverage of the government shutdown will continue right now. i'll be back at 9:00 tonight with grover norquist, jesse ventura. he's got a few strong views about this and a live audience. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online

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unfortunately, congress has not fulfilled its responsibility. it's failed to pass a budget. and as a result, much of our government must now shut down. >> the first time in 17 years the u.s. government has been shuddered. >> how sad. what a shameful day this is. in the history of the house of representatives. >> it's brutal. it's brutal. >> republicans and democrats took the battle to the tipping