so, mr. president, meet, that's great, but don't cave, stick to what you told cnbc this afternoon. >> during the course of my presidency,ivity bent over backwards to work with the republican party. one thing i know the american people are tired of, and i have to assume the vast majority of businesses are tired of, is this constant governing from crisis to crisis. in that sense, do we need to break that fever? absolutely. >> so, van, i get it, you want the president to stand your ground, maybe you have some ted cruz envy. i don't blame you. i kind of understand where you're coming from. president obama's leadership on this has been disappointing.

you want him to lurch leftward, but i want him to come to the more reasonable center. tom bar yellow supports president obama's position on the shutdown, and "washington times" senior editor, who supports the house republicans. tom, i have a hunch that president obama is digging in his heels on this fight and the upcoming fight on the debt ceiling because of people like van, who are pressuring him from the left to really take it to these guys, really don't give in, talk tough, stand firm. do you think that's why he's been so reluctant to negotiate? >> i don't understand the premise. he's actually given up 100% of the position to the republicans. the c.r. is a budget document. the republicans wanted $988 billion. they didn't say we'll give you half that. we said we will give you 100% of what you want on the budget. where do you negotiate after

that? >> please educate tom. >> first of all, the number we're talking about, the spending levels was negotiated in 2001. this is agreed upon, because i think on all of our sides, we agree that $17 trillion is just a little high debt to have. we need to start bringing spending down. so he didn't really -- >> really? >> it's been stuck at 16.7. >> the deficit has been coming down for a number of reasons. >> we have a $16.7 trillion debt right now, so yes, he's gone along with though from 2011, but beyond that it's been my way or the highway on obama care. >> but the sequester numbers, which both sides agree is terrible for policy, but it includes that, and already caved on splitting.

>> but c'mon, be honest, you're making it sound like democrats and president obama have just rolled over. they've asked for a lot and gotten very little. >> all of those things can be discussed. a continuing resolution is meant to be a clean document to move the government forward. nothing prevents this from continues from an actual -- >> but in general, yes, they shutdowns have always happened over spending. they do happening over spending, but this one isn't about spending. everyone is agrees to the 2011 levels with the sequester. what is happening now is this is about obama care. >> but it shouldn't be. >> but this is where we are, right? this is the reality. >> there's nothing that prevents the house -- >> the current members of congress are in the white house, which i think must be the quietest negotiation that's ever

happened. jay carney said arier today he will not negotiate, and then invites them to the white house. maybe they're discussing our show or what movies they have seen lately. >> let me say a couple things here. one, i think we forget that a c.r. is a little tine,y, tiny bitty thing. the budget is a big things and the debt ceiling is a huge thing. the continuing resolution just to keep the doors open, and the tea party republicans want us to give massive concessions over something small. don't you think it's disengenous on the part of tea party republicans for us to trade away huge partners of obama care, and eight weeks from now? granted we all agree c.r. after c.r., the past five years have been ridiculous. look, we all -- i don't know about the politicians, but i think the rest of americans wants a budget and a well

thought out budget, and this is ridiculous. however, what is happening is that what you're calling the tea party -- which is a great deal of them, but it's also the majority of republicans in the house, and about 9 % republicans in the senate say our constituents are telling us they're not ready for obama care. this el don't want it implemented. since they are the minority and the republicans control one half of one third of the government, all the leverage they have is the c.r. i gra el it's a tiny thing, but it's all they have. >> it's injures not the way it works. their job right now is to keep the government running. they need to do that with a six-weeks cr. >> and so for the first four years. even the first two there was no budget. i love that you now demand a budget. republicans have been demanding budgets for the past four years. it's nice to finally have one. >> you pass a budget, you pass a

c.r. i think we all agree it would be great to have a grand bargain, at least a budget, but in the absence of that, it's your jo been to pass a cr, and the president agreed on the -- >> let me tell you what -- republicans have offered to reopen slices of the government to fund veteran services, for example, national parks, a number of other things. nancy pelosi called this pa theic. here is what harry reid had to say about it today. >> but if you can help one child with cancer, why wouldn't you do it? >> listen, why -- i want why one against the other? >> why would we want to do that? i have 1100 people at nellis air force base sitting at home. they have a few problems of their own. >> this was tweeted by eric cantor. this is a statement from the president's office. it's the threat to veto. the honoring our promise to america's veterans act, the

research for life-saving cures act -- >> really cool names. >> no, it's terrible optics. this is your party. how do you defend this? >> you think the optics are hurting the democrats right now? i want i think this is terrible optics. >> the american people are so much smarter than this. they don't buy it with the world war 2nd memorial and stuff. the republicans snee to get the c.r. passed. this idea of trying to cherly pick a line, that's not how the government, wo. >> so you support this? you support the president says we're not going to -- >> going street by street we're going to get the trash from but not this street. they're going to start micromanaging in that way? this is not how americans deserve for the government. >> and if you're the majority leader of the senate and you say why should i?

i mean, talked about -- >> terrible, terrible. >> he's going to get beat up for that. i think we all know that reid cares a lot about kids. one of the things that's weird to me is now suddenly the republicans care so much about this particular program, yet the budget they voted for defunded a lot of the program. the ryan program actually defunds -- >> it was dana bash from cnn, not republicans who -- >> it was a bad question. why this anybody will say he handled the question well, but something that's been in the news recently, suddenly the republicans are the huge champions of veterans they have great names for the bills. >> honors or promise -- >> great branding, but if we want to honor our promise to our vet advance, why are we starting now, not a while ago? the ryan budget decent mates funding for veterans. >> you tell me why we haven't dealt with this in the past.

right now we have a suicide crisis with our veterans, 21 of our veterans taken their lives every single day. 15% of our veterans are homeless. the programs to do something about that were decimated in the ryan budget. why are suddenly now republicans concerned about honoring or vet advance when they weren't as concerned before? >> the republicans have always been the party of national security, so it's absolutely not true that it -- >> it is true. >> i will say i completely agree that ptsd is an enormous problem and needs to be dealt with. >> let me -- don't you think it's hypothetical critical that it does decimate programs to keep veterans off the streets? making those votes, and now we're -- >> what about the sequester? the sequester was president obama's idea, the sequester is

having a worse effect on defense and veterans than anything, the paul ryan budget has suggested. >> was the sequester actually supposed to be implemented? >> it was agreed upon to have both sides disliked, and now it's a republican cr that accepts those sequester numbers, which is bad for defense, particularly in a state like mine of virginia, but the democratic number is 1056. the reps are at 988. we have accepted that number, which you yourself agreed is bad for our defense, so the republicans are winning a fight that's hurting or defense sector, and the president is saying -- i think we should be going back to the kind of budget that actually builds the kind of infrastructure and competitiveness that sports or troops. i just got back from china last week, they're not going slow. they're not cutting back on these investments, so overall i think we should be moving toward

more investment, we should be giving or troops the support they need. >> what's wrong with that? >> i hear democrats say investment, and i hear obama. i just hear money money money. we've been to a $17 trillion debt. >> most americans agree we should not raise the debt ceiling without some spending cuts the but before that, i'm sure i don't have to tell you fine folks that the entire house of representatives is up for reelection next year. when we come back, i want you to tell me and our viewers why we should keep any of them around. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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welcome back to "crossfire." we're waiting for president obama to fin meetinging with congressional members. with us is tom prello, and "washington tibls" senior editor emily miller. congress's approval numbers are abysmal. we are an international laughingstock. why should we bring any of these guys back? give us some hope. tell me why i can have a government to believe in. >> i will say that many members work their tails off. a lot of them do believe a lot

of the stuff they say. i think unfortunately you've lost some of the core contingent that believes in getting things done. >> would you agree on both sides? i think you're see the democrats compromises a lot. i will say this going forward. if you look at elections over the last 40, 50 years, the strength of the economy and strength of unemployment is the best indicator of how elections will go. if we do see some double dip in the economy, in the shoutdown of the debt ceiling moves you into a more economic environment, i think that will be very bad news for anyone running for reelection last year. >> i wrote in my column today, i think this shutdown will help reps, and here's why. right now, yes, i think the

republicans are taking most of the blame for this, because they generally do, and president obama is very, very good at not taking blame for anything. even though 24th he will not make one change in this process. the point of that is is people don't want obama care. they're not being ability to stick with the same insurance companies, plus i think you couldn't log on yesterday if you tried to. so the ted cruzs, and the tea party people in the house that are trying to push the leadership into this position, they're saying we hear you. we hear you. >> not only that, but i also said i think in november 2014, no one will remember this shutdown. they're going to be feeling the effects of obama care. that's what will drive voting. >> let's just take you at your

word. you are right there has been this strong congressional leadership, ted cruz now apparently the speaker of the house -- i don't now -- >> you know, he's a tea party favorite. >> he certainly is. >> he has that following in america. >> so i think that he believes and i think that you believe he's actually speaking for a big chunk of america. >> that's what i think. >> if that's true, why doesn't boehner let there just be an up or down vote of all the members of congress to open up the government? no strings attached. let majority rule happen. if you are so confident that you represent the american people, no, no, the whole concept behind cruz, he is saying that we need to use whatever leverage we have to stop obama care and right now that's the c.r. >> there are two things about that that are weird, at least two things about it. >> all right. >> one if you're so convinced

it's going to be a train wreck in some ways it's strange you're afraid to let it go in play. but what's really strange will this is you're saying that you're representing the concerns of all the people, and yet if you had a vote right now in the congress and wlet everybody vote their conscience, the people who actually represent america, the shutdown would be over -- i want but if you had a vote on obama care tomorrow, it would get defeated. >> but i don't understand, though, if you believe -- >> on obama care -- >> no, no, you've done that 40 times. you had a vote on obama care 40 times. you lost 40 times. >> no, no, it keeps passing the house. >> the majority of votes for congress were cast for democrats. the majority in the house of representatives -- >> and how does that work? >> we had a mill yor more votes. >> million more votes for democrats than -- >>

we have this whole constitutional thing. >> don't think that it reflects the majority of americans. >> and you know, correct me if i'm putting words in your mouth but i think what emily is saying, what ted cruz is doing is standing up for millions of people around the country. certainly in his district back at home who want obama care repealed, delayed, stopped. that is not represented in congress. that's why ted cruz is such a hero. because there are so many sort of flip-floppers. >> it is the movement out there. >> the house and the senate who don't have the back bone that ted cruz does. >> ted cruz is supported by a small faction of the american people. >> that's not true. >> he represent americans. i totally accept that. >> you just saw the majority of the house, five times in the last two weeks, a majority pass bills that either defunded,

delayed, stopped obama care. five different times. stop the members of congress getting -- so there is enormous majority support in congress. plus all those senators who voted for it. republican you senators. >> why are you afraid of a vote on the house floor, up or down? >> the point is there's no leverage left. >> but here's the thing. you say you're a majorityian movement. why can't the, why cannot you have a clean vote. let he shall, if you're a republican or democrat, it would have bipartisan support. >> would would they give up their leverage? >> because they believe in democracy and they believe in getting things done. you don't get to simply say -- >> when she passed obama care, do you know how she shoved that through in the misdemeanor of the night ask then they used all those tricks in. >> there were a lot of nights. >> let me give tom a for instance. what would you do?

senators addiction durbin and joe manchin had both suggested they would compromise on certain parts offer obama care. addicti he said he would delay the individual mandate. where is that come frms a plurality of democrats? >> if they want to do that, we can. >> they voted it down. >> this is a six-week extension to get the got government running. there is no that limits your ability to negotiate. >> you want this utopian world where they are separated. >> he wouldn't let there be a budget conference. >> no, no. >> you can actually agree to rye to legislate these things. i think the key vigs tax is an interesting one. i think it represents more of the bipartisan special interests connection. leaving that aside, i think that's the one place the parties tend to come together. this is a cr.

it has bipartisan support. it could pass the house snfrl republicans say here's a handful of things that we want. the president says we'll get to that. first do all the things that i'm asking you to do. i prols on good faith because i've been so trust worthy before. we'll get to your thing and i'll come to the table and negotiate with you like did i on entitlement reform and tax reform. >> excited for 988. democrats think it would be a 1056 or higher. they gave 100% of the republican number. >> let's clarify a couple things. on the conference committee, the house pass ad bill that said yesterday, let's just to go conference committee. let's do regular order. we have passed this. here's our bill. the senate bill has the clean cr that you like. the house bill has ai of one year, individual mandate. let's put them together and to go conference committee. what happened? he said absolutely not and it went away. >> i'm talking about the real

budget was there was a chance for the budget on the real budget. >> in dream lanl possibly. >> in a divided government that wean eave the past few years, there . >> let me ask you in the minute that we have left. should these congress people get paid in the middle of all this? you. >> probably not. >> i think we tend to focus on that sort of thing. whether it is six weeks of pairing it won't be a huge disincentive. most congress minutes are worth millions. it won't be a seismic difference one way or the other. what i worry about if they can pay their bills on time. that's an enormous impact. >> i have to say, just from 17 years ago, what exactly happened

this time, when this august resolve, which it will be. everybody will win a little of something. everybody will get paid in fulfill so everything else is just for show. >> i sure hope so. there have been some noises that they may not. i want to thank you. next, we are going to cease fire. >> are we? >> we're going to see if we can cease fire. see if there is anything we can agree on. it has to do with what's really going on at that world war ii memorial. ♪

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help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. democrats control the white house and the senate. republicans control the house. we sent four different proposals to our democrat colleagues in the senate themselves rejected all of them. we've asked them to sit down to try tow are solve our differences. they will not negotiate. we had a nice conversation, a light conversation. but at some point we've got to allow the process that our founders gave us to work out.

we've appointed conferrees on the house side to sit down and work with our senate colleagues. it is time for them to appoint conferrees. all we're asking for here is a discussion and fairness for the american people under obama care. i wish, i would hope that the president and my democrat colleagues in the senate would listen to the american people and sit down and have a serious discussion about resolving these differences. >> that was house gop speaker john boehner. exiting from the white house after what sounds like not a very productive meeting. >> it is not the end. not even the beginning of the end. i think it is the end of the beginning. they are now talking. that's a good thing. and i have to say that i'm glad they are. one thing i would say is as we think about the things that can hopefully bring people together.

i think everybody is concerned about that world war ii memorial. what i would say is that the debate will continue online at cnn.com/crossfire. >> join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett on "outfront" starts right now. "outfront," news. president obama just emerged from a 90-minute meeting with the top four leaders in congress. at that podium you saw john boehner. was there any kind of a breakthrough? 90-minute meeting after not talking for a week. we'll go live to the white house. plus one of the lawmaker who pushed for obama care to be included in the fight. rand paul is "outfront" to respond. and the story from the beginning, the violent confrontation between a motorist and a group of people caught on tape.