then she struck a police officer and gave chase against very latest. the child is said to be fine and was rescued by police officers. >> and republican congressman mike kelly of pennsylvania. it's been a difficult day here in washington. you were both on the house side, but when something like this happens, it affects all of us, and everybody couple times together. i just want to start with that. i want to get to our news, some other questions. day three of the government shutdown, and i want to let a republican make my case irmgts you're talking about the tea party caucus. >> it's not tea party caucus, it's a lemming caucus. they meet separately, always

conspiring, and it's just gotten us nowhere. >> congressman kelly, now, i don't know if he's talking about you, but i do have a question. you know, the writing is on the wall. i agree with congressman nunes. why not just get this over with. this isn't about anything bus reply wall power, why doesn't the speaker just bring this to a vote with a bipartisan majority and end the shutdown? >> i think that's an easy thing to say, and hard thing to do. i admire the speaker allowing everybody to have their say, and one thing that was lost, it's not about either party. the unforgotten party is the american people. so we say what's best for the american people. as we go forward what is best? i think the founders were very clear from the beginning.

some of the legislation is not good, so they have given us different mechanisms to try and push back on things we don't think are basically fair. fair to me means no one gets favor over somebody else. >> you're talking about the health care law. >> about almost everything we do in government. what they should do is pick and choose the best thing for america. >> there are lots of people losing in this shutdown. let's bring it on a slightly different -- speaker boehner announced today, two weeks from day from the debt limit, and he announced that will bring it to a vote with a bipartisan majority. had el will not adhere to the tea party caucus, play to them and put strings on the debt limit. do you agree with that approach? >> the speaker is the speaker of the house. he's representing really both parties. he's a republican, i understand that, but we are here tonight, we have a passion for protecting children and looking to the future. we were both at an event last

week on pediatric cancer. i have never met a member that i thought was not a good american. by him saying we're going to the entire house and do somebody that makes sentence for -- >> so you agree with him that the tea party will not hold statistic -- that he should bring a vote with a bipartisan majority? >> here's what i agree with. i agree we have a process that allows everybody to be heard. we'll see where it goes with there. >> we know this is where it will end, though. >> let me ask about the holding hostage. the house has passed at least four targeted continuing resolutions their narrow and clean, one of them on d.c. you actually voted for. they're all now being held hostage by harry reid, who refuses to allow any of them to come to a vote even though it's likely all would pass the senate. don't you think that senator reid owes it to the country to also allow the things that the house has passed.

for everybody who's blaming john boehner, isn't harry reid at least as guilty as holding things hostage? >> we, newt, good to be with yous a good to be with you, stephanie, and all that you have done. my best wishes are to the police officers who were injured, and certainly to our brave men and women and to the tragedy and the extraening did i that developed around this particular person. we wish the family well. obviously people are frustrated here in america, not knowing the facts of this issue, i am likewise on the homeland security commit aye. but let me say this. hostage taking is a two-way street. i would not say that majority leader harry reid is doing anything other than what he says he's going to do. that is, along with the democratic caucus and the house, we want to open the government, plain and simple. we were there together. you were my speaker, and i had

to respect your leadership, and we did. and when the house went into -- or the government went into a shutdown, it is well known that you and president clinton were talking about the budget. this did not start out about the budget. this is about a law that is the law of the land, that the republicans insist on defunding. we have as much as $2 try wrong-plus -- excuse me, $2 million plus that have already accessed healthcare.gov. we have a victim of diabetes or someone who said i thought i could never get health insurance in texas, 61 years old, she now has health insurance today. so no, i would not say that we are in essence holding these divisive small bills hostage. what the majority leader is saying, what the president is saying, after having cut almost $2 trillion through the bester, raising the tax rates, we have compromised. now is a time to segregate an

issue of disagreement over a law, just like the civil rights act of 1964 and '65 the voting rights act. many disagreed with it. the next thing is let's go forward with a budget law -- excuse me -- a big that in essence opens the government. aisle ready to do it right now, have it done and then begin the process. >> everybody on your side has the talking points. everybody is prepared to say, gee, if only boehner would surrender, i would be happy. >> standing for america. >> doing the right thing. >> but in a period where we are -- we should be negotiating, as you said, in 1995 and '96, we were negotiating -- >> we already negotiated. i just wanted to state that. we september the budget cuts. what we're voting on is the republican budget. >> so one side gets to define when negotiations occur? >> no. they might not want to recognize that the president has already negotiated -- >> what you're saying is the majority of the house is

irrelevant, because the democrats have decided. >> no, they have dictated the budget cuts. they can't take yes for an answer. as the congresswoman pointed out, this is about the health care law, which has been the law now for three years. 2 mill 7 million have sought out information, it's already making a difference. we've voted on it 40 times. >> 43 times. in the house. so that is negotiations, and you haven't won. negotiations can start out here and come together. is there nothing in this massive law that could even be considered for improvement that could be put on the table as something that would begin to break the deadlock? >> three of us are legislators here, one tells us how to legislate. >> i like that. >> i'm making injures a humorous

statement, but there's always, there's always improvements that can be made to any law. not now. this is not the time to do that. we are on the praecipe of bringing to our knees, our government, our people. this is about the people. 800,000 government workers, who do services for the american people. the national guard in it can it can and many other places, they're good friends of mine, who are not able to be paid or trained. and evidenced from the secret service, to the d.c. police and capitol police. as they may determine, and all of them sthr essential workers. here's what i'm saying. i want these two letters to be put into evidence, one from the democratic letter and one from the majority leader in the senate, who says to our good speaker, all we need to do is put that bill on the floor. we will have the house open, and

then the legislative regular order is in place. issues about the affordable care act that i might be willing to listen to, i think it is going well, but there are issues that could be discussed. i voted for defense appropriations over the years. some may say progressive, but i have seen common ground, and i think we can do that once we open the government. >> i know, but i think we're forgetting some -- i'm a whole life. i know how to negotiate, but i've never ever got into a room to compromise, when a good thing in their mouth, just to let you know, i'm not compromising anything. now, this law, the last eight months, the president -- the administration has found different pieces of it, they say, it's okay, but this part is not okay. i think when you sit back and take a look at this, this is

such a huge piece of legislation. my lisa called me today and talked about the health care they can no longer afford. she started a business on her own. she bought her own health care. it was $70 a month. it's going to triple now, and all these things we talk about, you can keep it? not true. there's so many things about this where the -- i just say this, i absolutely want to compromise. i have not talked to one member whos relishing the thought that the country is shout down, and on a piecemeal basis, with will find a way to fund them. i find it objectionable, that people say all or nothing. you guys lost, the law was passed. judge roberts was very, very articulate when he said, look,

it's constitutional but the founder gave us mechanisms that we can push back on. when with you see something that's not wrong, when we see something that's not going to achieve what it was supposed to achieve, then that's our job. we have to meet and we have to talk civilly, because -- >> and all of that we want to do. let me brake in. this was no, sir the apocalypse. next you'll be shocked at how normal this process is. ♪ [ male announcer ] let's go places. but let's be ready. ♪ let's do our homework. ♪ let's look out for each other. let's look both ways before crossing. ♪ let's remember what's important.

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welcome back. tomorrow won't be the fourth, and it won't be the apocalypse. under the american system, this is the process you go through when you have profound differences. one side won the presidency, the other side won the house of representatives. it's happened over and over. in fact, speaker tip o'neil had 12 shutdowns while he was speaking, some under president jimmy carter, some under president ronald reagan. i understand the pressure to try to get it done, and i understand that among democrats, there's a deep desire to not negotiate, but in fact, isn't this a legitimate part of the struggle for power until our constitutional system?

>> i think you raise a good point 679 we came across this hill in 2011, with what was now the sequester. after a bipartisan group of members. could not come to a conclusion, why? because a contingent of tea party. we've already cut 2.5 trillion-plus with tax cuts and other cuts to this government. i heard a congressman, who is a ranking member on defense appropriations say that we cannot run the pentagon anymore in the kind of limited budgeting that is going on. in actuality, the government is growing, and therefore we should invest in this government. so we have an issue of the law that is the obama care being juxtaposed against an

intelligence discussion about how we take this country forward in the process. i will be with the discussion, the evenhanded discussion, or the volatile discussion on the budget and appropriations, but let go of the victim of the affordable care act. let it go. as you indicated, my good friend did, we have a small businesswoman who just found insurance $7,500 less than what she had before. we can all find adeck dotal stories. it is working. here i am with my -- i've got the 17 votes listed, republican members who in actuality said, we will go with your membership and our good speaker can bring to the floor this clean bill and wee have this government open, and i will engage with my good friend on the debate on how we appropriate and what kind of budget we have. >> there's a new cbs poll out.

78% are against shutting out the government. >> what's even more surprising in the poll is that a real split among republicans, i've never seen anything like this. 48% approved of shutting down the government, but 49% disapproved of shutting down the government, so there's a real split. inside those numbers is the tea party, 57% approves of shut shutting down the government. does this show you are held hostage to a minority faction in your caucus? >> no, absolutely not. when you look at the constitution and you look at about everything that's in the constitution, it's not about protecting the government from the people. it's about protecting the people from the government. i would say a lively and civil debate. >> people wouldn't agree with you. >> that's one poll. >> i think they all show that. >> about you if el were to ask you, how do you feel about the government? you would have a hard time finding people who say it's a

good idea. if you don't get this economy fixed, all the rest is just talk. you know what supports this health care plan? a vie brandt economy. what are we holding back? >> the shut it's costing $300 million a day. >> when no one tells you that 40 is no longer full time, when i come out of the mass in western pennsylvania on sunday, when i come out of mire k-mart and walmart, people say, would you please get this fixed for us? i agree that shutting down the government is something most people don't like. but if we're not moving in the right direction, we're not going to get it done. this piece of legislation is so big and so comprehensive, we don't even have all regs written. >> let me ask you a question back on the republican strategy. as the congresswoman said there are numerous republicans who have broken with their party to say we will vote with you and pass a clean budget bill with no

strings attached. this is about the budget, and we can't shut down the government any longer. the american people don't want it. and it's costing us. if the speaker brought a clean bill to the floor and passed it with a bipartisan majority, you haven't said said whether you would support it, but would you stick with him as speaker? >> i haven't seen anything as a better, more respect for we can tack this back one more session and find out before the election when miss pelosi was in. there was no debate. no let's get the other side's view. listen, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. speaker boehner has been very good to let everybody come forward. >> and as a result we've had gridlock. >> that's the design. this government wasn't designed

to go all one way or the other. >> no, it's not. >> i'm with you. but get something done, we can't. >> let me challenge both of you on this democratic fantasy for a second. the fact is, if you allowed a free vote in the senate, you would have repealed the tax devices, you would have had the key stone implemented or the president would have had to have vetoed it. swhauf a game. everybody says let's do the regular legislative process except harry reid says he will stop everything in the senate. the negotiation didn't have to be in there. if you'll give as you clean continuing resolution, here the nine things we'll let go through the senate. you had not a single commitment that anybody could trust that harry reid would let things through senate. so now you have the republicans in the house can say, what are our tools? you only have two tools. the continuing resolution, the power to spend and the debt

ceiling. throws only two that the president can't hide from and harry reid cannot win on. that's why this is a mess. the president's response has been to attack republicans. to have no negotiations. the office bill clinton in 1995. >> newt, please. the president has been one of the most conciliatory negotiators over a period of time. and i have to correct my good friend. i was here during the passage of the affordable care act which went through regular order, which both houses, the senate and the house asked for republican input. asked for amendments. allowed them to have it. it went through what this has not gone through. the hearing process and as well, the mark-up process which technically, if you look at the morning show that's on abc that talks about how you do a bill cartoon. we went through the regular order. our speaker, speaker pelosi was an excellent leader.

one, because the 111th congress was the busiest, most successful in terms of bills that helped the american people, including the g.i. bill that hemmed our returning iraq soldiers. >> what you call a successful agenda, this president -- >> it was enormously successful. i let you speak so let me say this. newt has made a point and who sets the agenda for different houses. and it is the majority leader. and what i would say to you, however, is that i don't see the majority leader suggesting that he would hold those bills hostage in order to make an agreement on whether the government opens or not. this is what we're talking about. we're talking about putting, you're saying throws the only tools that we have. what we're saying is that the priority of the american people are far more important, far more important than bills that we have a long period of time to be able to debate. and is it right for mcconnell and senator paul to be in the corner saying, if we hold on, we

can win this. poor words if i might say. the only people losing in this is the american people. put a clean bill on the floor. >> let me say there's no evidence for the first nine months of the year, that harry reid would be reasonable about moving this. none. we had nine months to get this solved. you may think the president is conciliatory as a negotiator but you won't find a single republican in teeth house or the senate that would agree with you. so there is a huge gap about reality here. and i think that's a big part of what we're at. >> you're not getting what you want so you throw a tantrum. that's what you just said. >> snow. i said under the constitution, when you have the house, you have the power of the purse and the president has to negotiate with you and calling to say i will not negotiate -- >> because he's already negotiated. >> i think they have blinders on. >> we have to go. thank you to representatives sheila jackson lee. next we cease fire and take a

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before we go, a quick trip back in time. courtesy of newt's visit with jay leno last night. >> i have to ask you about this photo. kind of a punk conservative rock band look? what's going on there in. >> well, i think i just started

teaching. van jones came up with a picture of him in an afro, a college student, and the folks across that all right, we've got to match this and i did my best which was side burns but not an afro. and since no one who tuned in last night got to see the picture of van jones way back when, here it is. now, i do want the audience to know that we won't discriminate but we also want to ask both stephanie and s.e. to find a suitably -- >> nobody asked me about that before the show. >> a suitably appropriate picture that we'll be able to share with you in the sometime not too distant future. >> let's say we all had our bad years. >> or decades in my case. go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. should president obama cancel his entire asia trip duty to the government shutdown? right now 71% of you say yes.

29% say no. >> the debate continues online at cnn.com/crossfire as well as facebook and twitter. from the left i'm stephanie cutter. >> from the right, i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." we'll be joined by jesse ventura and howard dean. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. next, a shooting on capitol hill, a high speed car chase ending with a deadly shoot-out. a minute by minute breakdown of what happened this afternoon. and the latest from the government shutdown. last night's meeting at the white house went nowhere. the senate majority leader harry reid says what it will take to get a deal with him and the democrats. and the latest from this violent confrontation between a motorist and a group of bikers. the wife of the suv driver speaking out says it was a life threatening situation but the