tonight a cnn special. it's been a full week and neither side looks willing to budge. >> and the american people expect we will sit down and at least have a conversation. >> speaker boehner doesn't want to see the shutdown end at the moment. >> is there any political cover to hide behind to make a deal? we will ask the minority leader in the house. >> we should not all be the victim of a republican civil

war. >> chris van holland is our guest. >> and new polls showing that americans are very, very ticked off over the shutdown. who do they say is to blame? this is "shutdown showdown". >> one hour from now it will be official. the government will have partially been shut down for a full week. i know we are just talking in terms of achieving nothing it's an achievement. house speaker boehner says there is not enough votes to pass a clean bill. president obama suggests he doesn't believe the speaker and is challenging boehner to prove bit allowing a vote on the floor. but tonight the officials are talking past the current shutdown they have yet to solve and looking to the next major problem on the horizon.

cnn has a new clock mines until country hits the debt ceiling at which point the government runs out of cash to pay its bill. let's hope there is not an impasse over anything else soon. i want to bring in chris van holland a ranking member of the house budget committee. congressman i want to start with you. over the weekend, the house passed a bill to give the furloughed federal employees back pay. but it looks as though that bill even though it passed the house unanimously has trouble in the senate the senate republicans have objections to it. what do you have to say as someone who represents a lot of federal workers? and second of all if you are willing to take up these bills for furloughed workers and

paying the military, why not do other piecemeal things? >> no one should be punished for something that is not their fault. it was the right thing for the house to unanimously pass the legislation that said we will keep everybody whole. but actually what the house did also exposes the folly of their position. we didn't vote to say we are going to provide pay to worker at the food and drug administration or national parks. we said we will pay back pay to fall federal employees. it's inconsistent to say you want to pay everybody and say you are not going to reopen all of government. they want to keep paying people to stay at home rather than bring everybody back which they could do simply by having a vote. the president is right. the speaker should have a vote today and we could have the government open tonight.

>> but can you understand how this is crazy to the american public that here we are having a government that's in the red and we are now -- we want to pay people not to work even though it might be the right thing to do. they didn't cause this. but we're not paying our bills but we're paying people not to work. how does that work? >> the whole thing is crazy. i couldn't agree with you more which is why we want to call the speaker to put people back to work tonight. but that is the reality. democrats and republicans and independents around the country think this is a crazy situation. in part because if the speaker of the house would listen to the whole country we could have a vote. but why not just fund things one by one? >> there is no principled reason i can see. it's just that democrats don't like the politics. it's a house republican strategy to pass these things, nih

funding, wic nutrition, open the parks, all these things that look bad and at the end of the day won't fund obama care. democrats don't want to the that. i understand that. but that's not a principle not to do it all at once. >> the principle is getting the entire government up and running as fast as possible. that's the principle. when republicans yesterday said they want to pay every federal employee back pay you would think that the principle that follows is let's get everybody back to, who. why do they want to pay people to stay home in some agencies? that is ridiculous. they now say they want to pay everybody. bring them back to work. >> can i ask you about this where you say the votes are there and you take house republicans at their word where they say i would like there to be a clean funding bill. if you take them at their word and say ergo they will vote for a clean funding bill. but when you dig deeper they say

they won't break with their house leadership to force a vote on it? are the votes there. >>? >> we had a california republican here last week. he wants a clean spending bill for the government. he's not going to buck the leadership. brianna has a point. >> they are saying they want a clean cr. >> they have the votes but they don't have the votes. >> the speaker says on national television he doesn't have the votes. put it up for a vote. let's see. they had the votes on the farm bill but couldn't get the votes. these guys can't count if they don't think they have the votes. in the light of day we have a vote we'll have a majority. and if the speaker is afraid of democracy, we are all afraid. if we have a vote and have a majority and we can open the government. >> what if there is a short term

solution. the white house floated this notion of a short term spending bill to get past the deadline. a lot of democrats were scurrying to their phones trying to figure out what the white house was really saying. would you take a short term? >> they were talking on the debt ceiling. >> yes. >> and our view is we should not with playing russian roulette with the debt. so we would much prefer a longer term extension that removes unnecessary uncertainty in the markets. but if it's a decision between a meltdown or a temporary increase we will take the increase. >> but you have to get through funding the government first? >> our view is that we should get that done today. i do think it's important to point out that yesterday on national television the speaker of the house said that he had reached a compromise agreement with the democratic leader in the senate, harry reid on keeping the government open.

and what harry reid did was agree to the sequester level of funding for the government. >> this was a while ago. >> but the speaker agreed in that negotiation that he would not add this extraneous obama care provision. so that was a negotiation. and the speaker walked away from an agreement he reached and now he says,well let's negotiate some more. here's a guy who is not able to deliver his own caucus. >> but he was forced away from the agreement, obviously and he will admit that was his plan. it had to change. >> the republicans in his caucus didn't want to do it. >> he has a few dozen republicans who have a sway over him. >> i agree with -- >> i agree maybe he wanted to keep his agreement. >> i would agree. he has a few dozen. that's exactly right. >> who drive -- >> who are driving the speaker. so what he's doing is ignoring

the rest of the country and saying he's going to be dictate today by senate cruz and the group in the caucus. this will end when the speaker steps up to his caucus. what you have here is a total failure of leadership. >> i have never seen the democrats as united in my life. >> let's take a quick break. stay here. we'll be right back. when we come back, closed playgrounds and websites going dark. is all of this really necessary because of the government shutdown or is the white house going out of their way to make sure everyone feels the pain? stay with us. then i read an article about a study that looked at the long term health benefits of taking multivitamins. they used centrum silver for the study... so i guess my wife was right. [ male announcer ] centrum. always your most complete.

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welcome back. the shutdown showdown. i'm jake tapper. from world war ii veterans storming the gates of a shuttered memorial to a girl storming the gates of a shut down playground. now congressman mark sanford is getting in on the civil disobedience. he is calling back his staffers to work tomorrow. congressman van holland is here. i want to ask you about the fiscal cliff i guess it was called last time. this time it's called the debt ceiling. if you and the senate don't vote to raise the debt ceiling by october 17th we don't have cash to pay bills or pay down the ious we already owe on the debt we already have. in 2004, you voted against

raising the debt ceiling and you said the vote to raise the debt limit for a third time in three years is a direct consequence of the reckless fiscal policy by the relationship leadership over the last three years. the deficit is higher now. do you regret saying that and voting that way in 2004? >> i do. i thought about that vote. i would vote definitely now. but what has changed now, is that nobody, myself or others who voted that way ever were saying they would allow the country to default on the debt. >> more symbolic. >> it was symbolic. it was about the fiscal situation and it does spur that conversation. what started in 2011, however, was people were actually saying they would allow the country to default. >> they are not saying that. the speaker is not saying that, is he? >> but what the speaker has said

is he's going to continue to threaten default in order to extract concessions. what if the president were to say today, you know what i'm going to veto the debt ceiling unless you, congress adopt my budget, unless you adopt my jobs plan and balanced approach to deficit reduction. you know what the republicans would say? that is ridiculous but that's what they are doing. they are saying they will block us from paying our bills unless we agree to their approach to deficit reduction or getting rid of -- it's exactly what they're doing. >> but there has always been negotiation on the debt ceiling. jake was talking about 2011. you go back -- >> the balanced budget. >> we have been trying to negotiate on the budget -- >> we are prepared. we have been prepared to negotiate on the budget with the

republicans since march. i introduced a resolution calling on the speaker to appoint budget negotiators. they didn't want to go to a budget negotiation. >> now they have -- >> they want to talk. >> they have not appointed conferees. and what they want to do is not go through a normal negotiation and say here is the president's budget and the republican budget. let's negotiate between the budgets. that's not what they want to do. they want to say in order for us to vote on the debt ceiling you have to give us the republican budget. they don't want to negotiate the priorities. they want to get 100% of what's in their budget in exchange for doing what they should do anyway. and they say give us 50% of the republican budget. but we say give us 50% of the democratic budget. you cannot threaten not to pay

our bills. >> just on the merits of increasing the debt ceiling or not one of the things that struck me is a poll that said that 38% of americans surveys said it would be good if the debt ceiling weren't increased and congress -- how are you fighting those numbers even when you have a lot of republicans who truly believe and they take jack blue at his word that october 17th is the date and after that is a disaster. how do you deal with that when you have that many americans upset about the debt ceiling that may reflect the fact that they feel the government is too big. >> they think it will end deficit spending. >> there are two things. first of all, a lot of people don't realize that the debt ceiling -- they think it's a green light for expansion of new spending. but it's not. if we want to tackle the deficit we should have that negotiation.

the president has a plan to reduce the deficit. he doesn't think it should be on the backs of seniors on medicare. he thinks we should we deuce the deficit in part by eliminating tax breaks for wealthy people and oil companies. we should have a debate on the budget and deficit reduction. that's why we have been trying to have budget negotiations. the republicans are trying to say we don't want to have that negotiation on how we reduce the deficit. you have to reduce the deficit our way. and in exchange we'll agree to pay the country's bills on time. >> are they backing off the obama care part of this? we haven't talked about obama care so much tonight. >> i want to talk about obama care specifically. which is in your space, maryland, only 326 people according to the "wall street journal" today have enrolled

today. 326. that is a sad and small number especially since your governor said he wanted maryland to lead the way. are you concerned by the fact that the obama administration has not been releasing the numbers of people and obviously there are serious problems with the website that many critics say they are not fully transparent about. >> we had the same problem in maryland. we were swamped in the first days in terms of the number of people coming on to the website and shopping for health insurance. that's a good sign. obviously there were a lot of glitches. they will have to get the system in shape. but we'll know by the end of the next couple months. a lot of people are doing what any of us would do. they are taking a look and shopping around. they have three months before they can get the policies. >> a lot of people can't get in there. >> that is obviously a huge problem. but the fact there is such demand and interest is a good sign. >> thank you so much for coming

here and having a conversation with us. signs of stress on the economy over the week long government shutdown. you ain't seen nothing yet? will washington end this before the next crisis? stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] the parking lot helps by letting us know who's coming. the carts keep everyone on the right track. the power tools introduce themselves. all the bits and bulbs keep themselves stocked. and the doors even handle the checkout so we can work on that thing that's stuck in the thing. [ female announcer ] today, cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everyone goes home happy.

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welcome back to "shutdown showdown" time for our final thoughts. what are your bets on whether or not we will be back here this time next week? brianna? >> i think we'll be here and maybe the show will be called "diving off the debt ceiling". >> the 17th is the deadline day

and you think we will be going -- >> i think the shutdown has hit the debt ceiling and it's a big snowball now. >> i will be more optimistic. i think these people are so good at the art of contrivance is they will contrive a way to get us right up to that cliff or whatever you call it and do a short term deal so we will be here at thanksgiving. >> they are not even talking. >> i think something will come to be before the deadline but it's i think it will be short term and the shutdown goes on. >> thank you so much. thank you for watching. i'm jake tapper. catch me on "the lead" at 4:00 p.m. eastern. "cross fire" starts right now. tonight on cross fire. the shutdown stalemate. there is plenty of blame going around. >> the president's refusal to

negotiate is hurting our economy. >> where is a strategy to get back to normal. >> pass a double digit, pay our bills and prevent an economic shutdown. >> on the left, stephanie cutter. on the right, se cupp. in the cross fire, edward mark where who blames republicans for the shutdown and john thune who criticizes president obama for not negotiating. guessing past stuck on stubborn tonight on cross fire. >> welcome to cross fire i'm s.e. cupp on the right. and i'm stuffstephanie cutter o right. speaker boehner didn't want to attach ted cruz's crazy commands to the budget but then he did. now he is denying there are enough votes in the house to reopen the government without those crazy ideological demands on obama care.

listen to what he said on abc's "this week." >> you're not prepared to schedule a clean vote on government funding right now. >> there are not the votes in the house to pass a clean cr. >> well, there are. there are enough votes. every democratic member of the house plus 24 republicans have come out in favor of passing a clean cr and ending this shutdown. we could reopen the government today if speaker boehner would reopen the business of leadership in the house. we could end this right now. >> i take issue with the crazy ideological demands part. >> why? >> president obama has the bigger problem on his hands. that's a looming default on our debts. he knows that is the bigger problem. and no matter how incompetent republicans are looking over the shutdown he knows it's ultimately his credibility and his legacy on the line if we go over that default. >> he knows the country's future

and our economy that's on the line if we default which is why he is telling republicans don't bring it to the brink. >> it's a big problem for him. he's got to figure out a way to deal with it. in the cross fire, edward marske of massachusetts and john thune of south dakota. senator marske to you first. i know it's fashionable to blame republican for this shutdown. but the house passed four bills to fund the government and more bills to fund pieces of the government to reopen. harry reid, who has refused to give those bills a vote deserves some responsibility here. >> well, what you're saying is that we should wait for the republican tea party members of the house to pick those parts of the government we like an we should just approve those parts of the government. they send over a bill that says we should fund the nih but also

take away health care for the poorest children in america and just vote for it. we should not have an epa. we should not have an a department of decision or department of energy but any of the parts that the tea party republicans in the senate want -- >> why not reopen veterans services. what's the loss for you? don't you care about refunding those services? >> you know how to reopen the department of veterans affairs? send over a bill and let us reopen the government. there are 24 republicans in the house of representatives who say they will open up the whole government. you don't have to just open up the parts that the republicans like. you can open up the whole government and negotiate as adults. >> let's talk about responsibility here. i want to talk to you senator thune about responsibility. i would like to make a case that ted cruz should take

responsibility. >> i'm sure he's happy to. >> he's to blame for the government shutdown. he demanded that obama care be tied to funding the government. in fact you signed a letter with him demanding this of the majority leader than we're not going to pass a double digit unless the defunding of obama care is attached. where is the responsibility in that's what this comes down to. that's what led us to this decision. >> that's one of many proposals that has been out there. defunding. the house has acted on legislation that would repeal everything for a year. it would repeal the individual mandate. >> they keep moving the goal line. >> but they compromised. >> they are compromising on what size of the gun. >> if you think about it, delay really makes a lot of sense. and i know this is hard for you, stephanie but the president proposed a delay for the employer mandate. and we are out there saying why should middle class americans

have the same thing. if this thing isn't working. and it's clear it's not. look at the pile up they had trying to do the signups. 41 out of 82 deadlines have been missed with obama care. it makes sense to delay. >> the pile up happened because there has been an overwhelming response. and 97, 98% of businesses provide health care. however the question i is for you is you signed this letter supporting ted cruz's holding the government hostage and then you voted against ted cruz. >> like i said before we agree that obama care is harmful for the american people. and defunding it was one. it didn't have the votes. we have put forward other proposals to delay it for a year and when it comes to the government shutdown, you know, you got the house of representatives has sent over

now legislation that would open up fema and open up the national parks, and provide funding for veterans programs and national guard and reserve. there are things at the senate desk that could be picked up today and passed by unanimous consent. so -- >> you look like you want to jump in here. >> look at -- we don't need a firing squad. we need a geek squad to fix the computers. they are afraid it's going to work. in massachusetts we have it. 98% of all adults and 99% of all children. when people learn about it they like it. yesterday's "new york times" a simple three-point plan. number one the cook brothers and the tea party put together a blueprint to kill the affordable care act and shut down the government. step two send it to all republicans in the congress.

step three implement the blueprint and turn out the lights on the government. not a negotiation or conversation but capitulation and they had opportunities all year long and the senate republicans blocked the democratic budget in the senate to go over to the senate 19 times so we would have a conversation. >> but why would you when you delayed so many parts already. the president signed seven bills into law that repealed parts of the affordable care act. the president heard from so many employers and so did we. why wouldn't it make sense to give this thing a little bit more time to delay it a year for everybody? let working class americans and middle class americans have the same protections from this that big businesses have got. right now you have the democrats here in washington, d.c. and the president of the united states defending big business and republicans advocating for middle class americans.

>> the blueprint on the front page of the "new york times" shows the agenda is to shut down the government to get their way. if it's delayed a year it's just to have another year to put together a plan to kill the affordable care act. we can change parts during the regular legislative process. that's the responsible way to act but to hold the government process. it has mount rushmore shut down. i can't imagine what they are thinking as we are shutting down the government over a one-year delay in the affordable care act. >> i would take issue with the fact that this is tea party inspired. there are a lot of people out there. you look at the public opinion polls it's against obama care and there are a lot of democrats. look at what the labor unions have said. the letter they wrote to the president said it would create nightmare scenarios and destroy

the backbone of middle class americans. >> the tea party wants to shut down the government. that's on the front page of the "new york times" yesterday. that's the plan, to shut down the government. >> and the american people don't want the government shut down. >> neither do we. >> they don't like what republicans are doing. so are you saying that you will never vote to reopen the government unless obama care is attached? >> what i'm willing to say is -- right now the question is what can we get 218 votes for in the house. >> you got them. you got them. you have 224. >> i trust the speaker has a sense of where his votes are. i trust him this for than the white house be. you it collapses into one issue. we have the debt limit. we have the cr. these are things that require negotiation and we don't have. that the president said he is not going to negotiate. >> but -- >> the budget numbers you wanted.

the budget numbers that the republicans wanted. >> these are the budget numbers that are law. it's not a concession when you follow the law unless you are the president. >> we will get to the debt ceiling in a bit. is it in some sense a separate topic. but senator marske there is a support to repeal the medical device tax as a concession to republicans. i'm confused on your position. you said you are against this device tax but you voted against repealing it. explain why? >> i do want to repeal the medical device tax. but you have to pay for it. so i suggest we take away the tax breaks for the oil and gas industry, the $29 billion they get and take the tax away from the -- >> why not negotiate that though? >> that is what we should be doing. otherwise all they are doing is taking away -- >> that's what the republicans a asking for. >> no, no, no. $29 billion would come out of

the affordable care act. >> just as president obama is saying let's negotiate that later. if this is open the government right now why not say yes, let's do it and figure out the details later? >> they just came up with this idea 72 hours ago. this is not a negotiation -- >> repeal the medical device tax? >> in terms of not having -- >> congress has been voting on it for two years now. >> you cannot shut down the entire government over a 72-hour old idea that has not been raised before now and know there is a way in which you can negotiate -- >> it has been raised for months. >> first this was about defunding obama care and then a delay and now about a medical device tax. what is this about? >> it has been -- >> this is not about -- this is about shutting down government. but senator marske, repeal the medical device tax but pay for

it by taking away the tax breaks that oil and gas get. >> i think we should -- >> how would you pay for it? >> there were 34 democrats on the budget this year that voted to repeal the medical device tax or the pacemaker tax or the tax on insulin pumps. that's what is it. but there are a lot of offsets. there are folks in the house of representatives that have -- >> the democratic line is but how would you pay for it? >> exactly. >> but there are a lot of -- republicans could have very simply proposed a cut in the medical device tax and a substitution where the revenue was going to come for and put it on the floor. that would probably pass. what they're saying is we're going to steal all the revenues from the programs to take care of all the poorest children in america and that's the amendment i vote against. >> i will just remind you.

>> it hurts poor people all -- >> i will remind you that 30-plus of your colleagues, democrats in the senate voted to repeal that medical device tax. >> this is a tax on top line sales. this is gutting -- >> we can repeal it. but you have to find the $30 billion. >> we will continue this conversation. ted cruz just laid out a new bargaining line about the debt limit. at least one of us at this table doesn't buy all of his concessions. you will be surprised who that is next. weekdays are for rising to the challenge.

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welcome back to "crossfire" we are seven days into the partial shutdown but the real crisis is on the horizon. i was with ted cruz on attaching obama care to the shutdown but not attaching it to the debt limit fight. why? shutdown fake crisis, debt limit, real crisis. >> number one, we should look for some significant structural plan to reduce government spending. number two, we should avoid new taxes and number three we should look for ways to mitigate the harms from obama care. >> senator marske i agree, republicans should get something out of this debt limit fight. we cannot keep raising our debt without getting spending cuts or deficit reduction, entitlement reform. but one of the other things they

proposed is a yes or no vote on the keystone pipeline. would you go to default over the keystone pipeline. >> you cannot negotiate with a gun to your head. it's not a way to debate in the united states of america. there can be a vote on the keystone pipeline any time the republicans in the senate or the house want to make a fight over that. but attaching it to the shutdown of the government, attaching it to the full faith and credit of the united states of america, the currency for the world, by the way, the world will have a maalox moment in the marketplace of nervousness, every finance minister will worry about all the money they have invested in our country. you can't do that. and as i'm saying to you earlier you're never going to see the republicans in the house send over a bill that keeps open the epa or the department of energy because they just won't talk

about those issues responsibly. so the keystone pipeline is in that category. i tell you one other thing, the keystone pipeline as currently constructed and planned does not keep the oil in the united states. i keep making an amendment to say all the oil must stay in the united states and almost every republican votes no that it should not stay in the united states. what is the point of the environmental risks of having it go to text and sent out of our country? where is the energy and economic benefit to our country? >> there are four environmental impact studies that show a minimal impact to the environment. but just as important it's about jobs and the economy. i mean, this is energy -- energy is a competitive advantage to us against -- it's also something that according to the president's own state department would create 42,000 jobs,

construction jobs as soon as they decide a move forward with it. those are things that are good for the economy. we think about the debt limit discussion of the 53 times that the debt limit has been raised since 1978, 27 times something has been attached to it. policy issues, most cases dealing with deficit reduction all the big budget deals were done that way. 1955 a democrat house and a republican senate and republican president. but that was done in association with the debt limit. we have to get our country on a better fiscal trajectory. but to say i'm not going to negotiate it defies history. 27 times out of the 53. >> the president is acting like this is a novel request. >> i want to say briefly. we export men and women to protect the ships bringing oil into the country. i don't think it's right to

export oil out of the united states when we have young men and women are in the middle east. and they oppose keeping the oil here. that is wrong. >> we should not be bringing the economy to the brink just to get a pipeline established. so senator thune i want to -- >> it's not just about a pipeline by the way. >> and in full disclosure in the interest of being transparent here, i do a little work on opposing the keystone pipeline. so i'm with you senator marky. >> when you were trying to convince your congressmen to not bring the country to the brink you said our focus has to be on the economic security of americans and not on politics. how is today any difficult when republicans with their demands on an increase in the debt limit, a list of political

demands including keystone, medical device tax, all of these things, how is this not about politics? >> well, it's about the economy and jobs and about are we going to do something to secure a better future or our children and grandchildren? the president is asking for a trial dollar increase in the debt limit so we can incur obligations and liabilities in the future. the bills are going to get paid and the debt holders are going to get paid. but when you do a debt limit increase you look at what is causing the debt and we have an opportunity here to put in place spending reforms to grow the economy at a faster rate which will help us deal with the deficits and debts we are running now. but if you look at past statements the president in 2006 said that raising -- voting to raise the debt limit would be a failure of leadership and now he is saying i don't want any discussion -- >> he didn't hold it hostage.

>> but senator marky, to senator thune's point president obama voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006. harry reid, twice, nancy pelosi once in 2004. you voted against bills to raise the debt ceiling in 2005, '04, '02 and 1997. why is now the first time anyone wants to debate this? >> we went through this in 2011 and saw the markets drop and markets tremble around the planet. we just did it. we understand the consequences. >> why are they different than -- >> again we have just learned this lesson in 2011. both democrats and republicans who might have had any views in the '80s or '90s we just went through. you don't want to repeat history. we should not attach anything to the debt ceiling. >> that's not what i say. >> we don't want to default.

we should attach some spending cuts and -- >> but we cannot -- we cannot have -- >> and that's been done more than 20 times. >> there is never a threat of default. >> of those 20 times more often when the democrats controlled congress the huge majority is when democrats control congress. there is history and precedent to this and all the budget deals going back to 1985 came out of a result -- >> democrats were doing that responsibly. they were not -- >> okay always the case. >> senator thune you said this is about incurring future spending. are you saying that not increasing the debt limit and risking default is not catastrophic? >> no, i'm saying that we need to raise the debt limit and need to pay our bills. but we ought to do something about the debt.

it's like increasing the amount you can charge on your credit card to barrorrow money to pay bills. it's future borrowing. >> we have already wracked this up. there are reports that senator reid may bring a clean bill are you going to vote against it? >> i will look at what -- >> a clean debt limit increase. >> i want us to have a discussion and debate about what we are going to do to reduce the debt. the american peel agree with that by a two to one margin. this requires engagement by the president. when the president says i'm not going to negotiate and the senate democrats say i'm not going to negotiate -- >> we have to go to break. >> i would be happy to slip a note -- >> the conversation enters. >> the president is ready to

negotiate but not at the cost of our entire economy being put at risk. he is saying sit down -- >> do what i ask first and then we will talk -- >> you cannot do with the a gun to your head. >> we have to go. thanks to the senators. thanks for missing the start of the red sox game. >> next we cease fire. and see if there is anything we can agree on. and also, want you to weigh in on today's fireback question. should government workers get paid for the days they were furloughed. tweet yes or no to #crossfire. we'll have the results after the break. (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go,

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tonight on "crossfire" we have been debating the shutdown. i think we can both agree that no one is winning and everyone is taking a hit. look at this cnn poll, 63% are angry at the republicans, 57% are angry at the democrats and 53% are angry at the president. >> i know in certain circles and circles in the white house where they say we're winning and rand paul said we are winning this. and i think they are all delusional. everyone is losing here. no one is looking very good. >> no one comes out well in government shutdowns. >> go to facebook or twitter to weigh in. should government workers get paid for the days they were

furloughed. right now 61% of you say yes. and 39% say no. >> from the left i'm stephanie [ cheers and applause ] welcome from the united states and around the world. tonight, shutdown slowdown. we're seven days into the shutdown, if you think this is bad for america, wait until you see what happens when they run down the clock in the next few weeks, and it could be a catastroph