tonight a cnn special. i just called. >> i had a chance to speak with speaker boehner. >> to say. >> i had a phone call with the president of the united states. >> i loathe you. president obama, speaker boehner, finally picking up the phone and talking. but did they solve anything? >> i'm not budging when it comes to the full faith and credit of the united states. >> i was disappointed that the president refuses to negotiate. >> guess not. both emerged ready to spit more sound bites about how stubborn

the other guy is. >> we can't afford these manufactured crises every few months. >> this isn't about me. and frankly it's not about republicans. >> don't work up a sweat, guys. save that for the exclusive congressional gyms that are still open while hundreds of thousands of federal workers go without a paycheck. this is "shutdown showdown." welcome to this special half hour of cnn "shutdown showdown." i'm jake tapper. your government still exists but it's running on a hand-cranked generator. now night eight of the partial government shutdown. within a week from now the u.s. will hit its debt ceiling after which it will run out of money to pay all its bills. if you squint hard enough in the dark you might be able to see a little light at the end of the tunnel. either that or it's a train. in a lengthy news conference today the president opened a door to a short-term deal to temporarily fund the government and raise the debt ceiling, maybe just for a few weeks. breaking this evening, a senior house republican now tells our

dana bash that his party might -- might go along with that as long as the president uses that time period to negotiate. breakthrough? not so fast. a white house official tells cnn "don't overinterpret the president's offer. he will not offer concessions" this official says but he is willing to sign something that says both sides have to talk about the government reopens and the debt limit is raised. the president then the speaker did actually talk today on the phone. you might think that would be about as warm and fuzzy as divorcing parents making visitation arrangements for their kid. speaker boehner said it was a pleasant conversation although both men tore into the other at their news conference later. i'm joined tonight by a tea party supported republican senator, ron johnson of wisconsin. thanks for being here, senator. of course my cnn colleagues are here as well, chief political analyst gloria borger and chief congressional correspondent dana bash. senator johnson, i know that president obama is urging

business leaders, not just president obama but the white house in general, is urging business leaders to call republicans on the hill such as yourself and say, we can't have this debt ceiling happen. we have to pass a raising of the debt ceiling. have you gotten calls like that and what's your response? >> i have. and i hope those same business leaders call president obama and say what we need to do is address our long-term debt and deficit issue. that's what this is about. it's certainliy ran. the path this country is on is utterly unsustainable. if you really understand, i'm a manufacturer. i'm always looking at the root cause of a problem. the reason we're in the stalemate dates back to the passage of obama care and the fact it was done on a totally partisan basis. it created this divide that hasn't been healed. you ladle that on top of the fact that harry reid's senate hasn't passed any appropriation bills in the last two years. it's kind of primary function of congress is to first authorize the activity of the federal government then provide the funding for it.

we haven't passed an appropriation bill in two years. >> they did pass a budget in march. >> finally a budget. but a budget is only supposed to direct the appropriation process where you actually go through that difficult work of prioritizing spending. we haven't done that in two years which is why we're now at this moment, past the deadline of september 30th when the fiscal year runs out trying to fund the government again in an incredibly inefficient way utilizing these continuing resolutions. it's just a terrible way of doing business. i'm hoping those business leaders talk to president obama and he exerts some leadership on trying to get this process working a lot better in the future. >> senator, let's stipulate that you're right that, it shouldn't have passed. >> i am right. >> there you go. you're right about everything. okay. >> for the sake of argument. >> keep that up. >> i'm in the right direction here. okay. i forgot what i was going to say. you're 100% right. let's say that the president shouldn't have passed that along party lines and all the rest. should the republicans have decided to make this argument

over obama care? should they have promised the country something they actually couldn't deliver, which is defunding obama care? >> well, i've done a lot of strategic planning as a business person. the first step in that is always trying to ascertain relate and then try and set achievable goals. so from my standpoint, i didn't think defunding obama care was achievable. the reality of the situation is harry reid controls the senate. in order to defund obama care you need five democratic senators to switch their position. >> you told them that. >> they haven't done that. but again, i appreciate any effort that really highlights how harmful obama care is going to be. so let me say it probably wasn't the best strategy to employ. but now we're here. now what the house is doing is i think doing what congress should do. they're starting to pass small appropriation bills. they're starting to prioritize funding. the fact that harry reid is even willing to bring those up for a vote kind of shows you who's really playing politics with the situation. >> you got them here.

>> it took two to tango to get us here. but now i think it makes an awful lot of sense to start passing the prioritized spending bills. let's face it. the government, this is the most shameless action so far, they actually had to spend money to erect barricades around the open park world war ii memorial basically blocking out 80 and 90-year-old world war ii vets. that is just shameless. but that is what this administration is doing to inflict pain and play politics with the shutdown. >> that's what you get with the government shutdown. >> i understand. but it didn't have to be so painful if we start passing some appropriation bills the way congress should be working. >> let's go back to the people who realize who you are and where you came from. you were elected in 2010 on the tea party wave. >> right. >> you came from the tea party movement. but you're a businessman. >> yeah. >> what you're telling us right now is the guy who was sort of now the icon of poster child for that movement, ted cruz, he led

you down the wrong path. i mean it was a mistake. that's effectively what you've just said. i'm trying to summarize it. >> what i said was i appreciate any effort that highlights the harm of obama care. >> you're politician. >> you haven't been in washington long enough to talk like a politician. >> you're a practical guy. >> i'm a business guy. so how do we get out of this mess? president obama says it's the responsibility of congress to pass spending bills, it's the responsibility of congress to pay the debt for what congress already spent. >> you do what i always did as a business person. when you sit down to negotiation, you first figure out what you agree on. don't worry about the disagreements right away. let's figure out what you agree on. you also have to start working with a common set of numbers. if i'm going to buy a business and you have the owner with one set of books and i'm the buy where another set of books, if they're wildly different you'll never come to a negotiation. that's part of the problem. we're not even defining the problem properly. one of the things i brought to the table during the white house discussions was a definition of the problem. here's the fact.

we don't have a ten-year budget window problem here, we've got a 30-year baby boom generation demographic problem. and so the first decade you have deficit about $7 trillion. but we did a projection over 30 years, $107 trillion because of the unsustainable nature of medicare. and this administration refusing to deal with those things. they demagogue those issues. president obama says medicare just needs modest reforms. yet behind closed doors president obama admits to the republican senators that the problem in reforming medicare for every dollar that gets paid into the system americans get $3 out in benefits. but he also says and americans don't understand that. because we're not talking about it. >> how do you get from here to there, though? because obama care has been attached to the funding of the government. >> right. >> the president says he won't negotiate on his signature piece of domestic legislation which you probably understand because you were against this strategy in the first place. >> right. >> so how do you get from here to there? how do you negotiate without negotiation? >> you start being honest with

the american public you. level with them. you describe to them in the first act of bipartisanship ought to be go to them and say, american public, this is the problem. >> we can't fund obama care. >> both parties have been papering it over for decades. they've realized that social security is unsustainable, medicare unsustainable. but yet when somebody like paul ryan proposes a solution to medicare it gets demagogued. the left runs ads of a paul ryan look alike pushing granny off the cliff. >> you know both sides demagogue. >> absolutely. so let's get the politics out of it. >> how do you do that, now, though? it's so poisoned. >> that's what i'm trying to do. i realize people don't like dealing with numbers. but it's a financial problem. you have to start talking with numbers so you simplify it. that's what i tried to do with the white house. let's look at 30 years, decade one, decade, two decade three. 30-year total. and then let's start developing a solution menu. let's start putting up the options so pollymakers actually have real information not

demagoguery. with all these problems. >> let's take a very quick break. senator johnson, dana, gloria stay with us. coming up take it to the floor. the president demanding speaker ban boehner call a vote to end the shutdown. the recent increase in cafeteria prices is not cool. when you vote for flo, we'll have discounts. ice-cream discounts. multi-cookie discounts. pizza loyalty discounts! [ kids chanting "flo!" ] i also have some great ideas on car insurance. [ silence ] finding you discounts since back in the day. call or click today. i like her.

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after eight days, what's the latest political tactic during a

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to apply, go to citi.com/thankyoucards welcome back to our cnn special "shutdown showdown." eight days without compromise or a viable political solution from washington, d.c. but one thing the parties have produced is plenty of mean-spirited rhetoric. check out the latest ad from the democratic congressional campaign committee who slapped

together this personal dig against the house speaker. >> there are not the votes in the house to pass a clean c.r. >> are you chicken? >> you're soft. >> you've always been gutless. >> if republicans and speaker boehner are saying there are not enough votes then they should prove it. >> what's the matter, colonel sanders? chicken? >> damn right you're scared. >> hard to watch the great rick moranis be used as a political pawn like that. senator ron johnson, wasn't to turn back to you. >> those democrats are so mean. they're so partisan. i'm mr. bipartisan. >> i've never seen any republican ads that mean. >> we're just a lot nicer people. >> so here is how president obama might put it to you if i can play devil's advocate for a second. you own a company. >> right. >> packer. you make plastics. what if the head, let's say the cfo of the company said, this is what i demand. and if you don't do this thing that you normally would have to do, anyway, let's say it's make payroll, nobody's going to come

to work tomorrow, and it would be a shame if something happened to your plant. you would say, this is not a negotiation. now, that's the president's point of view. he's used worse metaphors than that actually. the idea is, this is something congress needs to do, anyway, passing a spending bill, raise a debt ceiling. these are not crazy things for the congress to be asked to do. >> then he's also saying do all those things then i'll negotiate seriously with you, which he's never done. >> he's tried, right? you don't think he's tried? >> 2010 and 2011? >> i was part of the dinner group there. i appreciate that outreach. >> the dinner group meaning you and several republican senators. >> about 24 senators, two different dinners. then there was a smaller group that continued to meet with the white house with dennis mcdonagh and sylvia burrwell and -- that was a helpful process. >> what did you think of the white house staffers? >> i liked them. they're nice people. i think a lot of their ideology

is destroying this country. but other than that they're great folks. >> we'll tell them you said that. >> do you think they want to deal with you and solve the fiscal crisis? >> only if they get a tax increase. don't talk to us about any kind of spending restraint, trying to save social security or medicare for future generations unless you're willing to increase taxes on the american taxpayerer it which from my standpoint is counter product. >> i have they can't get democrats to vote for it without that. >> >> and they can't get republicans to vote for that without tax decreases. we get back to what i was talking about. let's figure out what we agree on in. president's budget there's about $1.2 trillion of different types of mandatory spending cuts and other spending reductions. let's take a look at those. we actually would agree on spending reduction. talking about restraint. >> let's drill down on. you've had these conversations,

been in the white house having conversations. two questions. one is do you think a six-week kind of stopgap to raise the debt ceiling and continue those conversations is the way to go? >> i wouldn't be opposed to that. we've done that in the past and inn some of the past showdowns. where we go let's do a two-week c.r. people weren't serious prior to september 30th. maybe with this initial shutdown people will start focusing their minds and get serious. >> next question. do you think that obvious lit talks broke down? >> right. >> you had an impasse over tax increases you say. >> right. this white house, if there's a $5 deal they would need 2 or 3 bucks in tax increases. that was the problem. >> but having said that, were there seeds of something that you could actually work out in five weeks? >> sure. >> what? >> i think so, as long as they don't demand a tax increase. you know, that is a real stumbling block. the president got 600 some billion dollars of tax increase with no spending reductions at all with the fiscal cliff deal.

>> then they want more medicare cutbacks. you take taxes off the table, they take medicare off the table. can you still do something? >> well, the long-term driver of the debt and deficit is health care spending. president obama admitted that. in our dinners. and particularly medicare, in my 30-year projection we showed a $36 trillion deficit in medicare over the next 30 years. it's simply not sustainable, grow gloria. you have to start off with the facts and figures. figure out what you agree on, the extent of the problem. we need to actually describe it to the american public so they are prepared for the solution. step one, what's the first step in any problem-solving process? admit you got a problem, right? >> everybody admits that. >> no, they do not. >> senator, that's one of the reasons they did obama care because of the driving health care costs. >> didn't we just have a report the medicare actuaries says it's

going to cost $620 billion more over the next ten years than had we not done obama care. so we did not solve the problem there. >> can i just steer us back to the problem we're facing like immediately? >> today, right. they are all part and parcel of the same thing. >> so the debt ceiling. >> 40 seconds. >> so the president came out today and said it was catastrophic, insane and chaos if you did not raise the debt ceiling. what's your response to that? ? >> the president should be trying to calm the markets, not rile them up. from my standpoint we have plenty of tax revenue coming in if we are responsible, if we prioritize spending. there's no reason for any kind of catastrophe. >> you're not opposed to a short-term deal six weeks maybe even. >> something short-term yeah. i'd certainly like to get something like no special treatment for congress and members of their staff. >> we'll have to talk about that another time. >> i'd like that as well. >> i love that short-term. >> thank you very much we appreciate it.

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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor today make my mark i wawith pride.ork. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars. welcome back. while the federal government has shuttered war memorials and parks across the country, congressional gyms remain open. gloria and dana, how can this be, gloria? >> i don't know. look, i'm just concerned that the water is still running that they can all take a shower before they get back on the floor. we heard didn't we, dana, that

the towels were -- >> no fresh towels. >> yes. apparently our intrep aid produr reported that yes, congressional members can work out but towels are no longer. i'm the towel service at my house. just saying. >> essential employees. >> the doors are open in the capitol, the doors are open in the gym. they're going in there. i saw that the senator was joking although not so funny in the hallway that you know that the shutdown is going to end when it just gets too stinky in there. >> thanks to dana and gloria. i'm jake tapper. i'll be back here tomorrow night at 11:00 p.m. have a great. "crossfire" begins right now. tonight on "crossfire" tough talk. >> let's stop the excuses. >> and calls for more talk. >> the president said today was if there's unconditional surrendering by republicans,

he'll sit down and talk to us. that's not the way our government works. >> when will somebody listen? on the left, stephanie cutter. on the right, s.e. cupp in the crossfire. bill burton who supports the president's refusal to negotiate and david linbaugh who says republicans should force him to the table. more talk, more action tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm stephanie cutter on the left. >> i'm s.e. cupp on the right. president obama and the democrats spent the day trying to paint the republicans as extremists. i think it's the other way around. insisting he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling? something that's routinely been negotiated is worse than political posturing. it's threatening to bring the company to the brink of default. >> i'm not budging when it comes to the full faith and credit of

the united states. that has to be dealt with that you don't -- you don't pay a ransom you, don't provide concessions for congress doing its job. >> it is n't intellectually honest to say i will negotiate when i get everything i want. the american people support spending cuts. >> i think that's a really good try. [ laughter ] >> okay. >> however, for the president to get everything he wants, let's be clear about what we're talking about here. we're talking about congress doing its job, paying the bills that it's already racked up and turning the lights back on on the government. that's congress doing its job. we're not going to negotiate on a crisis that they created. and in term of spending cuts, we're already below what the democrats had offered.

we already seaccepted the republican spending for this year. there's a process called the budget process. if you really wanted to negotiate over these things they shouldn't have said no 19 times to getting together with democrats and negotiate over the budget. they shouldn't have waited to a week before we hit the default button to say that they want to negotiate. this is all about republicans looking for a way out. and it is political posturing on their part. >> i think the president's going to be looking for a way out soon. because that default is coming and it is real. in the crossfire, bill burton who served as deputy white house secretary during president obama's first term. and david linbaugh, a syndicated columnist and rush limbaugh's brother. david, i want to be clear on what your position is defaulting on the nation's debt. do you think that's a problem? >> well, first i don't accept the premise that the republicans are causing a default. i think it's both sides. and it's over obama care and it's over spending. these global issues.

you cannot get obama to the table to cut spending unless you use these lever points such as the continuing resolution. you all say let's do it in the course of business but he never does it. >> put the budget on the table that signifies that. >> the senate hasn't passed a budget. they finally passed one budget after not doing it for four years. obama has said on letterman and other shows that the debt is not that big of a deal. he will not reform entitlements. there's an existential threat to the united states. >> i'm still confused. there's a budget on the table in congress that the senate passed that the house also passed their budget. they've wanted to get together to negotiate. the republicans have said no. so a budget has been passed. in terms of the deficits, they are going to be cut in half by the end of this year. >> no thanks to obama. >> big thanks to obama when obama took office the things he inherited and our spending is at record lows. so look, all of these things are being done. this isn't about spending. fit was about spending we would already have a deal. this is about obama care.

so my question to you. >> obama care is spending. >> default. do you think default is the problem? >> do you think default ace problem? >> of course i think it's a problem. but i think it's worth republicans fighting. this is a hill to die on. obama care ace hill to die on, both for obama and democrats and republicans. we don't have many opportunities to bring obama to the table, and this is what it takes. obama care is destroying our health care system. not one thing about it that obama promised has come to fruition. it is a lie all the way done. i could detail every one of them. >> you will default over that? >> we're not going to default. by the way, if the debt ceiling is not raised that does not constitute a default. we can still pay our debts and social security. for obama to deny that is demagoguery and dishonest. >> every president has agreed with him. >> he's the only one not willing to negotiate. >> we have another gwen stefani here. bill burton you said on twitter you only came to hang out with stephanie cutter. i hope you don't mind if i ask you a question or two. >> he had to say that.

>> that was tweeted. but no, i want to ask you some questions. i actually agree with president obama that the debt ceiling default would be catastrophic. and i think that we are facing that real catastrophe. i agree with him that even flirting with the default is dangerous, and for those reasons if i were him i would do everything i could to avoid it. i would negotiate with anyone. i'd get myself to a table and say, let's find something that we can agree on to avoid this. even to avoid flirting with it. why hasn't he done that? >> well, i think you can start with something that david just said here, that obama care is a hill to die on. i mean, that is a pretty grim picture of what we're dealing with, right? >> why obama care, though? i brought up the debt ceiling. >> but that's what this fight is all about.

>> spending cuts next change for debt ceiling. >> what the president has already done he sat down with republicans. democrats sat down with republicans. they came up with a deal, a deal that steny hoyer and other democrats said this is not a good deal for us. they were quite vociferous in their opposition to it. eric cantor said if we can get this it would be a win for us. now john boehner. "i'm just a bill" is a very good song on schoolhouse rock. if they just have the vote. if there is a bipartisan majority that will pass this that we could use to avert the shutdown, why the theatrics? why flirt with disaster? why show the global community that the united states can't as a government get the job done? all over a law that was passed by the house, passed by the senate, signed into law by the president, ratified by the supreme court of the united

states. >> shamefully. >> republican court. >> this was crammed down the people's throats. it is not popular. and obama has refused to back off of it at all because, as matt lauer said, i endorse what chris matthews said. this is obama''s baby. this is not about obama and his narcissism. no offense. i know you used to work for him. this is about the best interests of the united states. i don't care if it's his baby. he is going to bring down his own party because of obama care. he lost 2010 because of obama care. 2012 because of the limbaugh theory um, never held accountable for his own actions. >> he won in an election where the american people overwhelmingly re-elected him. >> it's amazing. mystifying. 2014 are going to lose again. >> that's how democracy works, david. >> i can tell you how democracy works it's not what obama says. democracy doesn't work like this with congress not yielding to all my dictates.

yes. that's exactly how a constitutional republic works, checks and balances, separation of powers. >> they didn't yield, they voted to pass obama care. just to get back to your question, why is the president being so strong in his position. >> hayry reid apparently is telling the president don't negotiate. is that who he's listening to? >> i think what the president is saying is, if we buckle on this, if we keep buckling on that where does it end? >> it ends in a lower deficit every time it buckles and you can take credit. >> let's say the president were to give up obama care. say you know what, i don't want to default. obama care is repealed. it's done. i will agree to that deal. where does it stop? >> i know some people are -- i'm not saying give up obama care or we default. i'm saying attach the debt ceiling to spending cuts, deficit reduction, which by the way has historically happened multiple, dozens of times, and which the american people, 61%

according to recent polling thinks should happen because congress cannot be trusted with spending. that's what i'm saying. and you haven't answered yet why the president won't negotiate if he thinks defaulting is so catastrophic. >> well, two things. and stephanie, but number one he has negotiated. we have negotiated a deal that republicans wanted, that eric cantor said would be a win. and second, just let me take a step back at what's happening here. i think that we're in a period of politics that you could say started with the recall of gray davis, where elections suddenly don't matter as much as they used to because americans or members of congress or members of the tea party or however you want to look at it look at this process and say i didn't like outcome of that election. i'm going to try to undo it. i didn't like that bill that got passed i'm going to try to undo it. i'm not putting it on one party or another. what i'm saying is that we're in this new phase where there's in time in the process to actually make progress. and so as people are at

loggerheads constantly, all we are doing is moving backwards because the world is looking at us saying you can't even deal with your own government. >> i think we're at a unique point of dysfunction. i do want to point out a couple things about negotiation. the last time we were in this position where the president set up a negotiation process with john boehner, he couldn't negotiate because he didn't have any control over his tea party. on the eve of a deal he walked away. what happened? the american people lost $1 trillion in their savings. 401-ks, money wiped out. the stock market dropped significantly. we got a downgrade in our credit rating. that's what happens when you try to negotiate with someone who doesn't have the authority to negotiate. so who do you negotiate with in the house of representatives? boehner keeps moving the goal post. tea party is in control. ted cruz in the senate but he's calling the shots in the house. >> we didn't get a downgrade because of the impasse but because of obama's economy and this debt. $17 trillion of debt, 90 trillion of unfunded liabilities which obama has clearly stated he has no intention to do

anything about. but obama has gotten his way notwithstanding your statement that we keep having gridlock all over the place, he got his way on the stimulus. he got his way on obama care. dodd frank. and on the things he can't get his way legislationively he's gone around congress with the executive order. look at the results of obama's agenda being implemented. the worst recovery in 60 years. you guys talk about a debt reduction in 60 years best? that's because you compare it to a different baseline of 1.1 trillion starting. and he has only reduced the deficit because republicans made him. you guys ought to be ashamed. >> successful debt ceiling negotiations. >> thank you. you ought to be ashamed of his record with all due respect. i am scared of our future. for our future. because we won't do anything to reign in the debt and spending. >> bill are you ashamed of his record? >> i think it's fair to say that

i am not ashamed of the president's record. >> nor were the american people when they re-elected them. >> stephanie was there at the white house. >> the poll numbers are pretty bad right now. >> when we pulled this economy back from the brink. the financial markets got saved. the auto industry got saved. the war in iraq was end ed, the war in afghanistan was wound down. the president inherited a horrible economy. he actually brought it back and put us on a path to growth if you recall shutting 700,000 jobs per month when he came into office. >> he inherited a bad economy caused by policies he endorsed like the housing policies. and bush had a good economy for six to seven of his eight years. and unemployment averaged 5.3%. >> he inherited an awesome economy.

>> 261 -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> bush turned record surpluses into record deficits. and that's a fact. but we have to go to a break right now. we can continue this when we come back. david, in a minute i want to ask you about proof that voters are getting tired of these antics, tired of being pushed around by the tea party. [ male announcer ] this is brad. his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... [ man ] hey, brad, want to trade the all-day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve.

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welcome back to "crossfire." we're talk about washington's dysfunction. both president obama and speaker boehner held afternoon press conferences today, and it turns out people are getting really tired of the tea party's antics. even republicans. in fact, the "washington post" reports mainstream republicans are starting to run in primaries against tea party members. in one new poll shows only 52% of republicans approve of how their party is handling the budget negotiations. 45% disapprove. so the facts are adding up. the tea party is getting stale. david, it's not just democrats who are saying this. republicans are saying this all over the country. they're tired of this. tired of being held hostage. >> absolutely establishment, rockefeller republicans are saying this. >> more than half your party. >> this fissure has been going on for a long time. and yeah, they don't approve of

us redneck tea party people. >> those are your words. >> yes. facetious. the tea party is basically just a mainstream reagan republican. now, reagan was a social conservative. tea partys are mainly concerned about spending and the economy and the budget. but it formed because of the concern over the spending, the runaway spending, including some during president bush's. but you guys talk about the tea party being extreme. the truth is, we just want to enforce the republican platform. the republican platform has not changed. obama is the one who is extreme and his democrats are extreme. we've had an incremental march of statism and socialism with for 70 years with the exception of the reagan years. even then spending went nuts because he couldn't control congress. now we've got the tea party wants to rein is, in wants to pull back. obama wants fundamental change.

those words were precise. that's extreme. >> let me turn this around. aren't moderate democrats also in a tough spot and vulnerable, too? look at these ads running now in arkansas for the campaign next year. >> exemptions and special subsidies for mark pryor. higher insurance premiums for you. mark pryor voting with obama. voting against arkansasens like you. >> you spent a career advising democrats. are you worried that president obama is jeopardizing the senate in 2014? >> look, i don't think that this is the first time that when there's a democratic president, democrats in red states aren't necessarily running with the president. >> yes. >> but it goes for republicans as well. that's always just par for the course. what i'd be concerned about if i were a republican is mitch mcconnell, in kentucky he's got this challenge from the right starting to eat into his support

against a very great candidate the democrats have put up. i would be worried about what's happening in georgia where democrats put up michelle nunn. on the republican side paul brown who is not a mainstream candidate is now charging forward. and in virginia where kucinelli now tied to the shutdown is having real problems. had real problems all through the election but creating problems for his campaign. if you're looking at the politics of this, i think that democrats are doing much better than republicans are in a situation that democrats never would have asked for, don't want, would never want. >> just the opposite. they are sitting behind closed doors secretly laughing this is great. except now contrary to what they're saying they're not as happy with what's going on. that's why we see the panic and hysteria among democrats. now, this isn't going away. they expected. obama's approval polls are cratering. they're nervous how this is playing out, obama's pettiness, the way he's shutting down

things he wants to shut down and lying about obama care. >> he's losing a lot of independents. >> let's not talk about who's losing independents. 70% of independents disapprove of the republican strategy. >> nobody challenges this, that everybody says we just want everybody to get along. i heard someone on the panel say that last night. we want the two parties to get along. we want them skipping along holding hands, kumbaya. i do not want the parties to get along. this is an adversarial system. >> it wasn't me. >> it wasn't you, either. >> i wasn't what's best for the nation. if the only way to get it in this case is to use these strategies the republicans are using then i endorse them. >> so you're with ted cruz who said i don't think washington is for compromise. >> my main man. >> that's what he said on fox news today. >> compromise is not end game, nor is having cocktails with across party aisle. the end game is bringing america back to its founding principles, getting it to live within its means, getting a robust economy

we've forgotten about growth. we don't talk about growth, just malaise. >> potential shutdown, default on our debt, impact on economic growth. that's what all this means if you're not going to compromise that's what this means. >> no, no. economic growth is the obama dampening of economic growth. entire tenure. worst recovery in 50 years. >> worst economic disaster in 60 years. i will say they do agree with something that david said, which is that you don't need everybody in washington to agree all the time. the fact of the matter is i'm never going to agree with everything that s.e. has to say. we shouldn't agree with what john boehner has to say. the fact of the matter is, there's suggest a logjam in washington that nothing can happen. >> that's correct. >> that's not good. >> if obama stuff happens it's terrible. >> it's hurting our economy. >> it's helping. >> when you talk about the president's extreme agenda, i don't know what measure you use to say the president's policies

are extreme. what he's trying to advance and what he's got done are mostly pretty popular things. even things that weren't popular when they got passed. health care is an exception to that. i think the american people are still undecided. 55-45 on that issue. the things the tea party supports, that is what is extreme. if the only measure you have are national polls, the tea party is a very far right. >> but to david's point, it does seem like there is a sense on the left of giddiness around this shutdown that it's working. in fact, i thought it was really inappropriate that the vice president and democrats sent out fundraising e-mails over this shutdown. do you think that that -- while the president was refusing to negotiate. do you think that set the right tone? >> republicans have been raising money off this. you just showed me an ad that republicans are running about this, trying to play -- >> the exact language was, the exact language of this is, we can't watch this happen.

it's up to us to call out every last republican we can and make sure the american people know exactly who caused the this mess. it just seems like this is petty politics, and it seems like there's an ethos on the left that is yeah, let this shutdown happen. it's working. >> i guarantee you that stephanie and i are in more closed door meetings with democrats than you guys are. >> true story. >> and there is no giddiness about the shutdown. >> not now. you didn't anticipate ted cruz. >> your example there is an example ten times over on the republican side. and they're on record. you have michele bachmann saying we've never been happier than this shutdown. ted cruz saying we got what we wanted. >> yeah. we want the nation's attention. >> they want the shutdown. you know we're not going to roll back obama care. you know we're not going to delay obama care. you know that was going to result in a shutdown and here we are. >> what hurts the economy, back to your point. you guys say what hurts the economy is the shutdown and the defaults. what hurts the economy is obama

bad mouthing the economy, bad mouthing -- demonizing wealth. always pitting people against each other. that hurts the economy. and his policies are killing the economy. overregulation, overtaxing, overspending. let the market breathe. believe in america. believe in its founding principles and let's restore growth. believe in the people and what they can do. >> that's a lot. that's a big grab bag of things that you said the president is here to harm the economy. the president doesn't demonize wealth. the president thinks that business is good, that growth is good and has grown this economy in a way that i don't think that was obvious when he came into office. >> that's like saying black is white, white is black, up is down, down is up. >> more people have jobs than they did when he took office. the economy is growing not shrinking. those are just facts. that's not perception. >> we don't have any kind of robust growth. it's anemic growth much we've

always had economic just by the population increases you increase growth. we have got egregious unemployment, sustained, egregious unemployment rates. and more people leaving the workforce than ever before. this is a scary time. i think we're on borrowed time because of the continuous money that the fed is pumping into this thing. >> this is such a scary time, david, it's no time to toy with the nation defaulting on its debt. it's no time to cause a situation where you could spike interest rates that would affect everyone from students who have loans, small businesses that are trying to grow, huge corporations that are -- >> start being responsible and getting the spending under control and get the government off people's backs. and quit calling republicans a small group of republicans irresponsible like obama who never says anything bad and polarizing said today. >> well, i think we solved this problem here in a half an hour. it was a great debate. thanks to bill burton and david limbaugh. we want you to weigh in on today's fire back question.

who do you think will cave first? reply now by tweeting boehner or obama to #crossfire. we'll have the results next. [ male announcer ] this store knows how to handle a saturday crowd. ♪ [ male announcer ] the parking lot helps by letting us know who's coming. the carts keep everyone on the right track. the power tools introduce themselves. all the bits and bulbs keep themselves stocked. and the doors even handle the checkout so we can work on that thing that's stuck in the thing. [ female announcer ] today, cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everyone goes home happy.

welcome back tonight on "crossfire" we've been debating the government shutdown and debt limit fight that. brings us to our fire back question. who do you think will cave first? right now 26% of you think president obama will, 74% of you say speaker boehner will. what do you think? >> well, i think i agree with

the american people there. >> okay. we'll see. >> the debate continues online at cnn.com/crossfire as well as facebook and twitter. from the left i'm stephanie cut. >> from the right i'm s.e. cupp. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. a glimmer of hope. word that republicans in congress may be considering a short term debt deal. and there's no time to waste. as you can sigh, the clock at the bottom of your screen shows we're counting down to that deadline pretty fast. it doesn't sound like president obama and speaker john boehner are quite ready to sing kumbaya yet. >> we can't make extortion part of our routine. democracy doesn't function this way.