right. or kimmel. that's it for "the lead." i'm jake tapper. make sure to follow me on twitter. i will be back tonight at 11:00 p.m. eastern, 8:00 p.m. pacific with a live cnn special, "shutdown showdown." for now, i turn you over to wolf blitzer in "the situation room." happening now, house republican leaders meeting right now with president obama. they're inside the white house only hours after proposing what potentially could be a first step toward ending this crisis. is the president on board? we're standing by to get all of their reaction this hour. also, he says this could be the tremor before the tsunami. gop freshman congressman vowing not to raise the nation's debt ceiling. he will debate the democratic congressman just ahead this hour as well. and what does it really mean to default? why democrats and republicans may be using the term differently.

i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." you're looking at a live picture right now of the white house. that's the west wing of the white house, momentarily we're expecting to see house republican leaders emerge from a critical meeting they're now having with president obama. they're hoping to sell the president on a new proposal to raise the nation's debt ceiling temporarily for only a few weeks and keep the country from defaulting. it could potentially default one week from today. senate democrats also met with the president just a little while ago. so is this plan a glimmer? does it provide a glimmer of hope that the white house has been looking for for ten days now into this crisis. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash is up on capitol hill. our senior white house correspondent jim acosta is over at the white house. dana, first to you. what are you hearing about what the house republicans at this meeting with the president under way right now, including the speaker, john boehner, what's

the message they are trying to convey to the president? >> reporter: i talked to several house republicans sources before heading over to the white house. they told me first and foremost they want to get a guarantee from the president that he would actually support and ultimately sign what they want to pass, which is a short-term deal about six weeks to raise the debt ceiling, and in that time, they would use -- they would negotiate on bigger questions about the debt and deficit. the reason why they want to get that guarantee is because they don't want to put this on the house floor as soon as tomorrow and have their republican members, particularly conservatives who are not thrilled with this, what is effectively a clean bill, to do it for what one source called recreational purposes if it's not going to go anywhere. the other goals, i'm told, are to make sure the president agrees to this negotiation, long-term negotiation, to deal with the debt and deficit, and to appoint what are known as

budget conferes or negotiators to sit down and come up with a budget which will be hard to see the president not agreeing to that since the democrats have been asking for that for some time. listen to what the house speaker himself said about the goals earlier today. >> what do you need in order to reopen the full government? >> that's a conversation we are going to have with the president today. i don't want to put anything on the table. i don't want to take anything off the table. that's why we want to have this conversation. >> reporter: doesn't want to take anything off the table, wolf, but obviously, one of the key questions that we don't know the answer to is how the government is going to reopen because that is absolutely not part of this legislation. what we are told from house republican sources is that they would hope that the talks, they would agree to start talking almost immediately and that of course, the first order of business would be what they could come up with to reopen the government, and maybe even get that done as soon as this weekend, but you heard harry reid at the white house say, at the very end of a press

conference there after his meeting, that that's not going to happen, suggesting that they don't want to deal with the debt ceiling until they know that the government is going to reopen. >> we're showing our viewers a live picture from the driveway just outside the west wing of the white house. you see the marine guard there. you see the microphones. once the meeting is over, the speaker and his other top republican leaders in the house will come to those microphones and tell us what, if anything, was accomplished. we will of course have live coverage whenever they walk out you will see it live here in "the situation room." dana, there are growing concerns apparently among a lot of republicans up on the hill that with the government still shut down, this immediate plan to delay, to allow the debt ceiling to be raised at least for six weeks, it doesn't necessarily address the government shutdown directly. >> reporter: there are concerns, and you know, we of course heard them from democrats. i walk these halls after we got the details of the house republican plan and not surprisingly, a lot of house democrats said really, you think

we're going to deal with the debt ceiling and not reopen the government? we'll do it if we have to, but what was maybe most surprising is how vocal the house republicans brethren in the senate were about the fact that they want the government to be reopened. we're talking about a wide range of republicans from mccain to john cornyn, the number two republican in the senate, telling ted barrett he hopes they deal with this and you know, i'm hearing also from house republicans that from sources that there is a lot -- growing concern about the polls and about the fact that they are really feeling the heat back home, not all of them, some of the conservatives aren't, but many moderates are. there will be a big push to get this government opened even by republicans soon. >> the polls show the american public is blaming everyone but republicans, a bit more than democrats right now. dana, stand by. our senior white house correspondent jim acosta is over at the white house. what can you tell us about the meeting that's under way right now and what will the president -- what do we expect

the president to be saying to john boehner and the republican house leaders right now? >> reporter: first of all, white house officials say the president is happy about this progress that's being made. he believes that cooler heads are starting to prevail. but at this meeting with house republicans, which is happening right now, the president is going to be saying two things and that is to increase the debt ceiling and reopen the government with no strings attached. but wolf, as dana was just explaining, the president may only get one of those things and that is raising the nation's debt ceiling, at least for the time being. white house press secretary jay carney indicated that the president would sign a short-term debt ceiling increase, but he wants to see the bill first. that's very critical in the eyes of this white house. and that raised a very big question that played out in the white house briefing room earlier this afternoon and that is, will the president accept a deal to raise the nation's debt ceiling but at the same time, not have a bill that goes along with it that reopens the government. it took awhile but here's how carney answered the question.

>> the president would at the very least sign that bill even though you haven't seen it, a clean debt ceiling bill to raise the nation's debt limit? >> clean debt limit bill is passed, he would likely sign it. again, we would have to see it. we have seen nothing. we haven't seen a bill yet. we haven't seen what the speaker is going to put forward. again, you're asking me hypothetical. again, we would have to see it. we're speaking of a bill that does not at this point exist. >> again, since we have seen nothing from the republicans yet, beyond a very brief press conference, we don't know what they are actually going to propose. >> reporter: so at the end of all that, the answer was eventually yes, the president would sign a bill to increase the nation's debt ceiling even though there would not be a separate bill along with it that reopens the government. that's an indication of two things, wolf. one is that there is absolutely or almost no trust right now between the white house and house republicans, and the other thing i think, as dana was mentioning, this is starting to become clearer and clearer as the minutes and hours go by,

that the debt ceiling might get raised, default might be averted but the government might still be closed. >> we're just waiting to see what happens. we'll have live coverage as soon as they emerge from the white house over there. we'll hear what the speaker has to say. jim acosta at the white house, don't go too far away. much more coming up. the breaking news we're following, we anticipate to hear from the speaker fairly soon, we're told, as soon as he walks to those microphones. we'll have live coverage. when we come back, what does all this mean as far as default is concerned? you might get different answers depending on whom you ask. we are breaking it all down. plus, he's one of the most outspoken debt ceiling deniers, as they're called, in the house of representatives. the gop freshman congressman is vowing not to raise the debt ceiling and will debate a democratic congressman. that will happen here within a few moments. tweet us your suggested questions for both of them. don't forget to use the hash tag sitroom. ♪

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most economists agree a government debt default could be catastrophic. it could also be a slow motion catastrophe with the effects playing out over days or weeks. cnn's tom foreman is here taking a closer look at all of this for us. tom, explain to our viewers how this potentially could unfold. >> you know, wolf, much of the confusion over a government default lies in the term itself and the way it is being used by republicans and democrats. let's put the government checkbook next to the calendar and break it down. the treasury department says on october 17th, the government will no longer have enough maneuvering room to cover all of its bills without borrowing more money to pay for the things to which we have already committed ourselves, interest we owe on money we have borrowed, social security, veterans benefits, food stamps, all these things over here in our checkbook. democrats say we must pay all of this in full so let me mark this as blue. they say you have to pay all of that in full, all of these checks have to go out on time or

the nation is in default and many bad things may follow. that's more or less their definition of it. republicans, however, are essentially saying, at least some of them are saying no, only this top one, the interest, must be paid in full to avoid default. imagine that this is the mortgage on your house, you must pay it. these other checks are for electricity, water, gas. yeah, you owe it, they should be on time but they can be a little late without the sky falling. you see the difference here. for the democrats, they are basically saying there is a deadline coming up soon, you have to cover everything, if not, that's default. republicans say there is a deadline coming up at some point, but you only have to pay part of it and that's a really substantial difference. >> tom, isn't this a matter of semantics? isn't the danger very real no matter which definition you choose? >> yeah, most analysts say yes. even if they buy this republican argument that the democrats are making too much of the october 17th deadline, that maybe you can slide this down and go to

any number of different dates, they say even if you can do that, real consequences will follow if at some point we pass this point of no return. whether or not it's technically a default or not. first, tens of millions of americans would not get government assistance, checks that they expect, or the checks might be smaller than usual. senior citizens, poor folks, government workers, students, many people who depend on that money week in and week out. second, the stock market could go into a free-fall in the face of this sudden and dramatic weakening of consumer buying power. and all of the related financial uncertainty. and third, once again, we're back to this issue of credit. those who loan money to america to run the government could pull back substantially, leaving the country not only largely broke but also unable to borrow at any reasonable rate and you are correct, wolf, there is a wide agreement that many of these things will happen even if we get too close to a default, whether or not we technically

cross the line, depending on any definition. >> you don't even want to get close to checking to see if that's going to cause the disaster that so many people are suggesting it will cause. thanks very much, tom foreman, for that. meanwhile, they're meeting inside the white house right now. the house republican leadership, including the speaker john boehner. they are meeting with the president. we're waiting for them to emerge and tell us deal or no deal. a lot depending on this. you're looking outside the west wing of the white house underneath the cover over there. it's raining outside so they will be protected when speaker boehner and eric cantor and the others emerge. helicopters buzzing, and truck engine humming. sfx: birds chirping sfx: birds chirping

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so even if a deal to raise the debt ceiling temporarily is reached, won't that just prolong the uncertainty in the global economy? let's discuss what's going on with cnn's chief political analyst, gloria borger and diane swann, who is visiting washington. she's the chief economist for mesereau financial. guys, thanks very much. let's say they work it out, a deal raising the debt ceiling

for six weeks. is that going to calm everybody down? >> temporarily. then we'll find out what they do on november 22nd. haven't we sort of done this dance before? i spend more time with my political strategist friends now than my economist friends and policy maker friends because they can't make policy when there is the government shut down. this is just ridiculous. >> this is by no means a done deal. >> no. >> despite the optimism, the markets reacting about 300 points today. >> we set the bar low for being optimistic because they are starting to look each other in the face, right, and there are some professionaposals, but wha finding out today is that senate republicans are not exactly happy with this. they are looking for a way to try and reopen the government rather than just raise the debt ceiling and leave the government closed, and democrats in both chambers are not happy because they don't want any negotiations to start until the government is reopened. they are all sort of thinking why would you do one of those things and not do the other.

>> the part i see that's really hard is wall street finally listens when it gets loud enough, then back off again and it's almost manic. i watch it and i'm like in financial markets, the costs are accumulating already. coming in talking to the cab drivers, the people that aren't going to restaurants, and it's different than '95 and '96. the collateral damage to the economy of just this two week shutdown is about a half percent with the direct cost off gdp, that takes it down to less than 2% growth. this is pittiful. >> not to mention the cost of the government itself. >> absolutely. this is just ridiculous. you are losing productivity, everything is getting backlogged. >> we will pay people not to work. >> you talk to these people all the time, big investors, wall street, big business ceos and all of that who say you know what, it's not such a big deal, you come to next week and there's no increase in the debt ceiling, the u.s. and american people can live with that?

>> nobody says that about the debt ceiling. but i will say, these sort of crying wolf, hate to say that, sorry about that, but washington has been down this road before and they come to the end and figure out something in the 11th hour. that's what most people are expecting. that said, a lot of businesses i know, that's what investors are doing. they are holding back right now and you see a quiet before the storm, and the quiet could be very bad before the storm if they end up firing instead of hiring during the critical holiday season, holiday shopping season. i also think it's really important to understand this collateral damage and collective damage we have seen. we're not doing trade negotiations. we don't have immigration policy. all this is hurting our international competitiveness. the first trade delays, 2011 debt ceiling debacle -- >> usually that big business community, wall street, they -- normally their constituents, that's the constituency of the republican leadership out there. you would think they would have more influence. >> right. but they're not getting their calls returned because a lot of

republicans actually agree with them but there is a group of republicans in the house that has been very vocal, very important, i call them the hell no caucus in this particular fight and they don't really care about wall street. so they can have all the influence they want with the leadership, but not with, you know, not with that rank and file and apparently, not with ted cruz, who by the way is going to run for president so one would assume he would need republican money. >> wall street as we learned from 2008, i understand, i'm an economist, i work in the midwest but i understand that people don't understand the link between main street and wall street, but nobody understands it after 2008. we're here because that link is there. >> it's not wall street that will get them -- get this done. it's going to be their poll numbers which are plummeting so dramatically, and republican polls have dropped ten points in the last month. that's what's going to finally hopefully get this done.

>> thanks very much. good to have you here. we'll have you back. up next, two congressmen, one democrat, one republican, will debate raising the debt ceiling, this government shutdown. tweet us your suggested questions. you still can, use hash tag sitroom. we're also standing by to hear from the house republican leadership, including speaker john boehner. they are meeting inside the west wing of the white house right now with president obama. you see the microphones. you see the driveway there of the west wing. they will be walking out soon. we'll have live coverage. will there be a deal or no deal?

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they want to shut down the entire government? >> i knew your consultants and strategists and acting coaches told you to use the word tea party as much as possible. there are thousands of people across the united states of america who won't donate $10 to this campaign. >> booker's campaign reports his father has died at 76 following a stroke. more news, including a debate between two congressmen, a liberal democratic conservative republican on the government shutdown. jpm

urgent new warnings today from leading financial voices on what could happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised next week. here's what the treasury secretary jack lew and the imf chief christine lagarde had to say today. >> the systems are automated to pay because for 224 years, the policy of congress and every president has been we pay our

bills. you cannot go into those systems and easily make them pay some things and not other things. they weren't designed that way because it was never the policy of this government to be in the position that we would have to be in if we couldn't pay all our bills. >> failure to raise the debt ceiling would cause serious damage to the u.s. economy but also to the global economy as a result of this spillover effect. >> let's discuss with two members of congress. xavier becerra, democrat from california, chairman of the house democratic caucus. republican congressman ted yoho of florida, also happens to be a veterinarian. first time here in "the situation room." thanks, gentlemen, to both of you for joining us. congressman yoho, let me begin with you. there was an article that jumped out at all of us in the "washington post" the other day that quoted you as saying this. i want to make sure they quoted you accurately. you are seeing the tremor before the tsunami here. i'm not going to raise the debt ceiling. then you went on to say i think personally it would bring

stability to the world markets if the debt ceiling were not raised. i want you to first of all tell us if those quotes were accurate and what you meant. >> yeah. those quotes are accurate. i appreciate you having me on, wolf. not raising the debt ceiling does not automatically trigger a default. what i meant by that article there was, you know, i feel like groundhog day, it's kind of like the debate between jimmy carter and ronald reagan. there you go again. we are doing the same things we've done the last 15 years. we have raised the debt ceiling 14 times since 2001 and if that was the answer, we wouldn't be here today. what i meant by that statement was this. if we as a nation, as legislators, address this condition of overspending and if we address that and we say to the rest of the world, to our financial markets, to the rest of the world market, say listen, we've got a spending problem, we realize it, we get it, we're going to address this and we're going to get this under control, i think the rest of the market

would breathe a sigh of relief, just in the fact that we're addressing that and saying we've got a spending problem and are going to get it under control so we don't kick the can down the road again and again and again. >> just to be precise, are you not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling under any condition, is that right? >> no, i never said that. >> i'm asking. >> all right. again, raising the debt ceiling does not automatically trigger a default. a default is when you can't service your debt. we have enough money coming in right now, our government is bringing in between $200 billion to $250 billion a month. the service on our debt is between $25 billion to $30 billion a month. we have plenty of money to service that, then money to pay social security, veterans benefits and the things on. we have deficit spending for the last five years or longer than that. and the thing is, we're in better shape today than we were in 2011. back then, we had $1.2 trillion in deficit spending. we're at $700 billion. this is the time to stand up and say we're going in the right

direction. why in the heck would we want to go backwards? >> we have had deficit spending actually going back to 2000, to the end of the bill clinton administration, the start of the george w. bush administration. but go ahead and respond, congressman, to what you just heard. >> it's tough to respond, wolf, because that's why we're in this situation. we have very hardcore group of members who believe contrary to all the evidence, contrary to all the experts, that if you just go ahead and stop paying for your past bills, that it's okay. that is playing with fire and it's unfortunate because those who believe they can play with fire here in congress don't recognize that the folks who are going to get burned aren't the folks in congress. we make a pretty good wage. it's every american family that has to pay their bills day to day, month to month. they're the ones looking at us saying wait a minute, i pay my bills because i know if i'm going to keep my mortgage or keep my car, i've got to pay my bills. all of a sudden, congress is saying to the world, the american government's going to stop paying for its bills for the iraq war, the afghanistan

war, for our troops that are out there today, for all the services that we provide to our seniors, to our veterans. that's why we are where we are. we are watching this family feud among republicans, between the right and the far right, about what to do and it's hurting americans. >> congressman yoho, explain what you meant by this quote that we read the other day, too, because it's directly related. someone needs to convince me why we need to raise the debt ceiling. you don't understand why for 50 years or whatever it's been, the u.s. has been forced to raise that debt ceiling every year or two? >> no, i want to respond to what congressman becerra because it ties right into this. we're where we're at today because we haven't addressed these problems. nobody says we're going to default. nobody has said that we're not going to pay our bills. you know, constitutionally, we cannot default. so we're going to pay the bills, going to pay our veterans, going to pay that, so to say that is

being disingenuous. >> let's let the congressman respond. go ahead. >> wolf, the reason you have to have a debt limit increase is because we are right now recovering from a very deep recession and if the republicans didn't want our troops to have the uniforms that they need, to have the equipment they need to protect themselves, then they shouldn't have voted last year for a budget that provided them that. if they didn't want for veterans to get the services they need after they have come home and left the service, they shouldn't have voted for the budget that provided for that. but today, we're trying to make sure that we cover those past obligations. this isn't anything about future obligations. all of us are ready to sit down and negotiate what do we do to make sure that in the future we have a more fiscally responsible budget, but to start to tell our veterans and our seniors on social security and our troops in afghanistan today that we are going to stop paying last month's bills because republicans are trying to make a point about the future, is crazy. >> go ahead, congressman.

>> he's off base. nobody is saying we're not going to pay our bills. again, that's why we have a $700 billion deficit, because we spent. what we're saying is we're going to honor those obligations that we have and any debt ceiling increase would have to be to pay that deficit spending, but not spend on new spending or new programs. it would be ridiculous, especially when you look at we're at $17 trillion in debt and if you adjust what we're going to add to social security with 10,000 baby boomers retiring a day, that's going to add over $1 trillion within nine years to our debt. we've got to address this problem and say you know what, we get it, this is a time we've got to make some hard choices and people that have been in congress for a long time, the career politicians, either led us to where we are or failed to prevent it because they are not willing to stand up and address these hard issues. >> let me ask you both a question they're talking about in the white house right now,

this six-week limited extension until november 22nd. first to you, congressman becerra, are you open to raising the nation's debt ceiling for six weeks, until november 22nd, but the government would still remain shut down, but negotiations presumably would continue? >> again, it's crazy the way we're trying to run the government. let's put it this way. >> i agree. >> not the smallest business on main street would run this way on a six-week basis. why should the largest economy be run this way? this is like a banana republic that we see republicans treating the american government the way banana republics were run. to the point mr. yoho made, don't believe me that by not allowing us to move forward and pay our past bills is going to be a problem. talk to your own republican colleagues who are saying to so many republicans stop doing this to the economy, let's move forward, so what democrats are saying is republicans are meeting today with the president, let's stop this

posturing, let us have a vote. we know that today, there exists republicans and democrats alike that as a majority in the house would pass a clean vote to not only move forward on paying our past bills, but also on reopening the government so americans can get back to work. >> congressman yoho, if the speaker allows that vote to come up, a six-week extension, raise the debt ceiling for six weeks, in the meantime talks will continue, will you vote yay or nea? >> i would have to look, see what else is in that. i can't answer that until i see what's in that. but again, hitting a debt ceiling is not an automatic trigger to default. if we can service our debt without borrowing money, why don't we just go until we have to borrow the money. to borrow money in this government with people that have been here since 1993, what you're looking at is giving an open credit card to people -- >> that's a pay china first policy. you are going to pay china first before you pay social security recipients, before you pay our veterans for their service money that they earned. our creditors are folks like

china and japan and you're not going to put social security recipients and veterans before them because you say pay our creditors first. >> we have the money coming in to pay that. you know that. you are being disingenuous to tell the american people you are going -- >> we don't have enough dollars in the bank account right now to pay china, japan, all the creditors, along with our social security recipients, veterans, and keep all the services moving. you have to prioritize which is what many republicans are talking about, and many republicans are talking about prioritizing those creditors before social security recipients and veterans. we're saying let's just move forward and rather than hold hostage veterans and seniors and our kids, let's move forward together and deal with future obligations, but let's not default on our previous obligations. >> we are not going to default. that's one of those words i hear all the time. >> ted, just give us a vote. give us a vote. why not just give us a vote? why not put america back to

work? >> because -- you want to have this conversation by yourself or you want to engage here? >> let's just have a vote. why don't we put a bill on the floor that takes away all the mud and lets us have a clean vote on reopening our government and putting 800,000 americans back to work, and allowing the economy to move forward. >> very quickly, because we have to wrap it up. >> again, if you go back to the department of defense bill, that was authorized that people shouldn't have been laid off so you need to talk to the senate and the administration why they laid those people off. we've got enough money coming in to where we don't have to borrow money at this point in time. when we hit that point, i would be willing for that moment to raise the debt ceiling to cover that obligation. we are going to pay social security. we are going to pay veterans. for the other side to say we're not going to, that's a scare tactic and that's not right for the american people. >> all right, congressmen -- >> we could have a clean vote today. >> let's see what happens in this meeting that's going on in the white house with the speaker and the president and other republican leaders right now. maybe there will be a deal. maybe there won't be a deal.

but let's see what happens. congressmen, thanks very much. >> thank you. once again, we're standing by to see what they say when they emerge. we expect the speaker to be emerging from the white house momentarily. there you see the microphones. we'll have live coverage. also, a closer look at some of the online glitches plaguing obama care right now. here's a question. is there a real cybersecurity threat? stay with us. x: oil gushing out of pipe. sfx: birds chirping.

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house speaker john boehner is meeting with president obama inside the west wing of the

white house right now. we expect boehner to emerge momentarily. stand by. deal or no deal. we'll find out very soon. other news we're following. libya's prime minister is appealing for calm after he was taken by gunmen and held for hours before being released. let's go to our senior international correspondent, nik robertson, with the very latest from tripoli, libya. what happened? >> reporter: about 2:30, 3:00 in the morning, about 100 militiamen burst into the luxury hotel in the center of tripoli where the prime minister was living. other government ministers live there, too. i had been in the hotel, met with the prime minister just hours before. the militiamen forced him out, took him to what they called a jail in the city, accused him of breaking the law of undermining the interests of the nation. this stems from essentially them accusing him of siding with the united states in the arrest of abu anas al libi, the libyan man connected with al qaeda,

believed to have been partly responsible for the 1998 bombings of the u.s. embassies in kenya and tanzania. it was on this basis they held him. the justice minister said absolute rubbish, he hasn't broken the law. this is a kidnapping. by the end of the morning, by midday, the prime minister was released. why? because the militiamen that took him were in the minority. the vast majority of people here, while not necessarily supporting the prime minister, were against what happened. but this undermines the weakness of the government and really indicates how powerful the militias here are. three not loyal to the government. they are loyal to their own commanders. >> libya could be falling apart even as we speak right now. we'll stay in close touch. thanks very much. let's take a closer look at some of the top stories we're following in "the situation room." police have taken the former pakistani president musharraf back into custody and placed him under house arrest. he's charged in connection with the 2007 government raid on a mosque where militants were

holed up. more than 50 people were killed, including a muslim cleric. the north korean leader kim jong unhas ousted a hard line general and put his pick in place, the latest in a series of high level changes in the north korean military and the government. he has replaced dozens of top officials since taking power. a 28-year prison sentence for former detroit mayor kwame kilpatrick, convicted in march of two a 28-year prison sentence for former detroit mayor kwame kilpatrick. he was convicted in march of two dozens federal charges, including racketeering, distortion and filing of false tax returns. he apologized for the crimes before his sentencing. a report by ohio prison officials says two guards assigned to watch ariel castro didn't do their required rounds

on time, and apparently falsified their logbook. castro was serving a life sentence for holding three women captive in his home for a decade when he was found hanged from a bed sheet in his cell. investigators say he may have died accidentally while choking himself for a sexual thrill. crews have recovered the body of a winged suit flyer who crashed in northwest china. a hungarian daredevil was on a practice flight tut, investigators investigated his parachute may have failed to deply. food producers impacted by the government shutdown. some say it mae put them out of business. plus my interview with the independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. he's here to talk about obama care, the debt ceiling showdown, raising the nation's debt ceiling limit. tweet us your questions using the #sitroom.

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sglat here's a look at this hour's hot shots. ? distortland cranes are used to construct sculptures. in nepal a man prepares for a religious festival. in taiwan students celebrate national day. and pictures coming in from around the world. we're standing by for the speaker of the house, john boehner is meeting with president obama inside the west wing of the white house right now. this is a critically important meeting. will there be a deal to end the government shutdown, to raise the nation's debt ceilings or no deal? we should know momentarily. we'll have live coverage coming up in "the situation room." vo: irresponsible.

rep. rokita: obamacare hurts this country much more than any government shutdown. vo: reckless. rep. blackburn: people are probably going to realize... they can live with a lot less government. vo: destructive. rep. bachmann: this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. vo: the government shutdown is hurting veterans, seniors, and our kids. now tea party republicans are threatening... an economic shutdown. refusing to pay our nation's bills. endangering american jobs. tell them to stand up to the tea party. enough already!

so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches? i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water. it's a long story. well, not having branches let's us give you great rates and service. i'd like that. a new way to bank. a better way to save. ally bank. your money needs an ally. we're watching the stakeout at the white house. dana bash, usually when they come out, there's good news.

dana, are you hearing anything at all from what may be going on inside the white house? >> reporter: i haven't. we'll told this meeting was supposed to begin at 4:30, and end at 5:35. boulevard the meeting began, we were told by house republican leadership sources that they did plan to have the leaders come out to the microphone that we're looking at there at the white house and give us a read on what happened. as you well know from covering these things for so many years, wolf, sometimes the best-laid plans don't end up happening, particularly if a meeting doesn't go the way a certain side wants it. so we're waiting to see what happens. of course, of all meetings that have gone on, this is the most critical we have seen in weeks because this is what generally what the house speaker hag calling for every day, multiple times a day, a conversation with the president.

it comes, of course, as house republicans have offered a bit of an olive branch, saying they will pass, at least on the short term, a bill to increase the debt ceiling, with some strings, but not the kind of strings that many conservatives wanted to put out there. my understanding is the first thing they were hoping to get from the president in this meeting was a confirmation that he would support this, and then, of course, the whole issue is whether or not and how they're going to open the government following that, and whether or not the president would even great to support this debt ceiling increase without a promise first. so we'll see exactly what happens. this is a very, very important meetings. >> a critical moment indeed. stand by. there's an unusual way to vent frustration with lawmakers. here's cnn's jeanne moos. >> reporter: if you're matt at congress, you could hold a sign.

or you could try this -- hello? >> hi. is this government shutdown making you want to drink? >> it's a free service at the website drunkdialcongress.org. >> let me tell you, when i drink, i like to tell people what's on my mind. >> you enter your numb be at the website. in a couple seconds, the record the drunk dialer calls you back. >> we're going to forward you to a member of the house of representatives. >> reporter: your call is then forwarded to a randomly chosen member of the house resolution, and you can give them a peet of your mind. >> good movement representative sutherland's office. >> reporter: have you guys been getting a bunch of weird calls? the florida rep's office had no comment. it was set up, they say, for fun by a digital temp company founded by a former obama campaign staffer. >> you're not going to make money, are you? >> no, we're actually going to

lose money. >> reporter: apparently the website needed a drink. for a while it stopped working, overwhelmed, just like obama care. with house speaker john boehner was overwhelmed, he wasn't showing it. listen to how he answered a hypothetical question containing an if. >> a candy of nuts, every day would be christmas. >> it turns out this is one of the speaker's favorite deflect the question rhymes. here he is using it twice in different years. >> if ands and buts were candy and nuts -- every day would be christmas. >> reporter: the joys of watching anthony weiner argue the shutdown on fox. >> i'm the host, you're the guest. >> what am i -- >> why do you always have patsies on? i must have a job on fox. >> ouch. >> want to talk about low standards? you really want to go there? i want i'll go wherever you want. >> and look how low grayson

went. >> what do you have a higher opinion of, americans? congress or toenail funk us? congress 41%, toenail funk us, 44%. >> reporter: well, the two do have something in common. >> difficult to treat. >> jeanne moos, cnn. >> sure makes me want to drink. happening now, a "the situation room" special report, government shutdown. we're waiting for house republican leaders to leave the white house, tell us if the president is open to their new offer, a possible still step away from the brink of a debt disaster one week from today. even beer is being affected by the partial government shutdown. why you won't be able to take new brews anytime soon. and we're drilling the point man for the roll-out, about the system's big problems, some high costs as well. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer, you're in "the situation room."

house gop leaders went to the white house about an hour and a half or so ago, with a new offer in their pockets, and no assurances that the president was ready to make a deal. we're waiting for them to come out of the west wing, tell us if the two sides are any closer to a compromise. republicans say they cast a short-term increase in the debt limit if -- if the president agrees to negotiate on other issues, including an end to the partial government shutdown. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash is standing by, but let's bring in our senior white house correspondent jim acosta. jim, it looks like that meeting may be wrapping up, some are suggesting that the speaker may already have slipped out without going to the microphones. >> reporter: that's right. one of our photojournalists, tim garrity, who has the offense camp position, says he spotted house speaker john boehner leaving out the side, without

making a statement at that stakeout microphone position 234 the driveway at the white house. in the last several minutes, can't read into that whether that is a good sign or not. as you know, wolf, the other day when john boehner was over here with congressional leadership, he did at least come out and make a brief statement. so we're going to have to find out what all of that means as soon as we hear from his staff or hear from the speaker himself. that stakeout position is still set up congressional leaders may still come out on the republican side and talk to the cameras. we'll have to wait and see whether or not that happens, but wolf, all of this is very important. this was a critical meeting between house republican leaders and president obama. vice president joe biden was also in the room talking about this how republican plan for what appears to be a six-week increase in the nation's debt ceiling the president, according to white house press secretary jay carney, would likely sign that, but's the press secretary was telling us in the briefing

room earlier today, the president wants to see that legislation first, an indication there's not a lot of trust between the white house and house republicans. here's how jay carney put it earlier today. >> clean debt limit bill is passed, he would likely sign it. again we would have to see it. we're speaking of a bill that does not at this point exist. it's not at all clear based on what the speaker said that that's what we're going to see. >> reporter: the issue here is whether or not there would be a big accompanies a measure to raise the nation's debt ceiling that also reopens the government at this point prospects for that seemed very gloomy at this point, wolf, and this question was posed to senate majority leader harry reid. he was, of course, here early this afternoon with senate democrats meeting with the president. he was asked whether or not democrats would get involved in discussion on a bill to reopen

the government that is not clean, that there would be some sort of bill to reopen the government that had conditions attached to it. here is how harry reid answered that question. >> you had a very -- the president had a very clear position, which is give me a clean c.r., and open the government before we will negotiate. made clear earlier today, they want to negotiate before you reopen the governmentsh did. >> not going to happen. >> reporter: so that a very, very bankrupt answer from senate majority leader harry reid. wolf, that is an indication that while we may get the debt ceiling raised, we may not get a deal to reopen the government, at least not in the short term. wolf hears from our photojournalist tim garrity, who was watching house republicans leave the white house, it appears that all house republicans who were here, all 18, have left without making a statement. we don't expect them to come to the microphones at this point, wolf. we're just going to have to wait to see what that means. it could mean that perhaps there

was not the breakthrough that we were all anticipating earlier in the day. as you mentioned earlier, perhaps house republicans will be making that statement over at the capitol. we'll have to wait and see units sometimes they prefer going back to capitol hill. sometimes they're willing to go to the microphones in the driveway outside the west wing. we saw that little bus leave with the republican members of the house in that bus we earlier saw the speaker leave as well. we'll stand by to see what they say, if any, on capitol hill. let's go to capitol hill. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash is standing by. i don't foe if we can real too much into no comments, no statements from the leadership directly. may be good news, may be bat news, but we do know what the offer was that the speaker put on the table earlier today. >> >> reporter: that's right. that offer was to agree to pass what they call a clean debt ceiling, or at least what

republicans call a clean debt ceiling. democrats are not so sure. they haven't seen the language of it. but a debt ceiling that doesn't have the spending cuts and other strings attached that? conservatives have been demanding. in exchange for that what they wanted him to agree to was to sit down and talk about the big issues they have to the come together on frankly for two, three years. big, big issues that everybody believes need to be addressed, but they have very different philosophies on how to do so with regard to entitlements, with regard to taxes, with regard to the overall level of government spending. those are the things they wanted to discuss with the president. you know, again, as you and i have talked about so many times over the past ten days or more, we still have a potential chicken or egg situation, which is the best way to describe this. jim just played a quick sound bite from the senate majority leader harry reid, who said it's not going to happened, when asked if they would agree to

extend the debt ceiling without opening the government. maybe that was part of the discussion. maybe the president said, obviously i don't want to let the country default, but i want to reopen the government. what i can see, and this is really important to underscore. we are hearing so much more from republicans on both sides of the capitol that they are very concerned about the public backlash to them personally, reply dale and to their party in general over the shutdown. >> we'll see if they speak out once they get back to capitol hill. coming up, a cramped dinner, it sounds delicious, but the government shutdown may be getting in the way. also the independent senator bernie sanders, he's standing by to join us live. he hayes very strong opinions about the shutdown, who is to blame. by the way, if you have some questions you want me to ask him, tweet them to me. don't forget to use th the #sitroom. how much protein does your dog food have? 18 percent?

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more of our special report right after this. ?hña @8@x

anyone days into it is partial government shutdown, we're seeing all sorts of unusual ways that americans are being affected. erin mcpike is here. what do you see? >> all across the country, but it's especially hurt small states, like maine, with the go everyonor tried to declare a state of emergency due to all the federal workers not getting a paycheck. other states with economies depending on a certain product regulated by the government are feeling the pinch, too. from south florida to the last frontier, the shutdown is hitting food producers. >> they need -- so the guys can get out fishing. "the deadliest catch" crew grounded, with no federal quo theos, they can't get a permit.

also a concern for restaurants. what do you think is the worst-case scenario for you in this shutdown? >> they don't get crabbing, the crab prices go so high that i am priced out of the market. since its my only thing that i sell, you know, i'll be priced out. i don't know that people will be willing to pay the price. worst-case scenario. >> reporter: down south citrus growers usually consult the forecast, but the agency's entire website is shut down. and the craft beer movement bubbling up all over america is running into problem getting new beers on tap. >> we can't put our formula in for the approval or, two, even get a label, so we can register it with the state, so we can darnell -- we're completely prevented from brews this next beer because of the government shutdown. in utah and elsewhere shuttering the national parks has shut out hikers and park-goers and hurt local

economies, but now some hope. interior secretary joule will, quote, consider agreement with governors, who indicate an interest to fully fund personnel to reopen national parks in their state. still no luck for this little guy. his picture outside washington's national zoo has gone viral. the absolute saddest photo you will see. today secretary hagel approved a plan to allow academy intercollegiate sports programs to continue playing their games through the end of the month. another way washington is finding a way around the shutdown. >> hope they resolve this matter once and for all. the obama care enrollment process also ten days old. we're still see many problems. brian todd went looking for answers about the flawed system and the costs. brian, what did you find out? >> as you know, the westbound site has been beset with problems, and glitches.

people not be able b8 to log on. folks are working to isolate and to fix problems. people are going through and others aren't. which is why they are working -- both with hardware and with software. >> but many argue you had many months to get this booted up and to per effect it. why, then, so many problems? >> we went through a testing period, created a punchlist, to fix those things. the president said from the beginning, with a site like this, of course there are going to be glitches, but let's understand why there was initial problem. we had 250,000 concurrent users at one time. i mean, just from perspective medicare.gov has 5 million unique visitors, first in the

had 8.6. >> was there a design flaw? one independent expert, russ reeder, who designs web sites for major corporations, had his engineers analyze healthcare.gov, and he said it doesn't work at the most basic levels. >> just from the highest level, looking at the code on the website, it was, to be honest with you, it was pretty sloppy. there were still test code in there. there was a number of times that the website would have to hit the server and come back with too much information. it was just inefficient. >> i'll let others speak to the efficiency. here's what i know. prior to october 1st, if someone who was unsure in the individual market wanted to buy insurance, usually it was a mailed-in application with about 30 pages, 7 pages of underwriting, only to find out two or three weeks later whether or not you're one of the one in five people denied or your premiums were jacked up. >> reporter: how much did it

cost to pay the contractor to set up the website. >> we'll have to refer you back for those numbers. >> reporter: over 100 million? >> brian, just refer you to them for the numbers. >> reporter: we haven't been able to get hard numbers, but according to a government accountability report, they paid nearly $90 million through march of this year. they obviously have paid more since then. then there's the potential cyber-security threat. house intelligence commit aye chairman mike rogers said with all of 9 personal information like your social security number, tax information data and other data -- >> el it's a magnet for hackers. what about the cyber-security? >> built to the highest security standards. that's what this website was built upon. so it's pretty clear that the standards that have been put in place meet the highest and most exact i security standards, and we're comfortable with it. >> back to the usability question, i asked what would had say to me if i was an average

user who haven been able to log on and i'm about to give up. he said keep on going back and understand there's a six-month period to sign up. it will continue to improve, he said. thanks very much. i want to go to capitol hill. todayena bash is getting news on this the meeting that the republican leadership had over at the white house. dana, what are you hearing? >> reporter: that's right, wolf, if you look down the hall behind me that's where john boehner's office is. that's where all the people, the republican lawmakers are right now. they all came filing into there. i talked to several of the lawmakers, including the house majority leader eric cantor, who actually said it was a positive meeting, said they are going to -- it was a good first step, they're going to continue to have discussions tonight. there are reports that the president outright rejected the house republican plan to have a short-term debt limit. as far as these republican lawmakers are concerned, and these are key commit yes chairmen, they said they didn't see it that way, and that one even just said that they're,

quotes/unquote, working together with the president to try to keep working even through the night. dana, thanks very much. up next, bernie sanders, i'll excel if he

. republican leaderser gathered in speaker boehner's office after their meeting with the president. i'll ask bernie sanders about what he knows about any prospect

of compromise, right after this.

back to the back to the breaking news. they didn't make comments about a potential. bernie sanders. independent, with the democrats. thank you very much for coming in. we got a lot of questions. for you, and senator sanders, this came in. how will you goat on the six-week debt ceiling proposal. >> let me just say, this whole issue can be resolved in to have a vote. of the house right now. if the extension does come up. >> if he does not agree to end the government shutdown, and allow a million people to come back to work, no, i will not support that. >> you raised the nation's dead ceiling.

>> we see it as a major gift that for the first time in the history of the united states, they prepared not to default. that's not much of a gift. the business community is very clear, the economists are telling us it would be a catastrophe. obviously we have to pay or bills, but equally important, we're not getting the government services they paid for. i am chairman of the veterans commit aye, i worry very much. >> if boehner doesn't bus on a clean continuing resolution, isn't it better at least to end the debt ceiling issue? and let the money flow for social security recipients, for veterans, foreign investors, who lone a lot of these usual treasuries? >> and kids on head start, not

being able to go to head start, seniors on the meals on wheels program, not getting the food, the nutrition they need. not having important agencies. no, the republicans have got to do what the american people want. that is stop holding this government and the american people hostage. they're getting that message. when wall street and the big-money interests are coming in and say you guys are nuts. if you don't pay or nets, we'll see an inter -- >> they had that big, big meeting over at the white house, the republican leadership with the president, only moments ago eric cantor, the majority leader in the house, he said this. let me play the clip. >> i think we had a very useful meeting. it was clarifying, i think for both sides to where we are, and the takeaway from the meeting was our teams are going to be talking further tonight.

we'll have more discussion. we'll come back to more discussion. the president said he would go and consult with the at mrgs folks, and hopefully we can see a way forward after that. >> so that sound optimistic. he may be inclined that there's a deal in the works? >> i certainly hope they do what the american people overwhe overwhelmingly want them to do, reopen the government and pay our bills. but what i worry about is, they haven't quite butt on that they lost the last election. what i fear very much is what they are going to now is we cut social security, medicare, medicaid, and if you do all of these things that the american people by the way are overwhelmingly against, we'll be nice guys and maybe reopen the government. that is blackmail and we should not -- >> separate from the debt ceiling, even the president has been open to some entitlement

reform as it's called, even involves social security, cost-of-living index, stuff like that, you're not happy with that i want i disagree strongly, so do the american people. wand to do make it solvent, you lift the cap, you have people making millions. we cannot balance the budget on the backs of the elderly, the sick and poor. that is just wrong, end of discussion. >> thank you for coming in. always good to have you here in "the situation room." that's it for me. thanks very much for watching. "crossfire" starts right now. this is cnn breaking news. welcome to "crossfire." ite newt gingrich on the right. >> i'm van jones on the left. we begin with breaking news.

speaker john boehner and republicans just finished meeting with president obama this evening, but they left without saying anything to the reporters. right now they are meeting in -- right now eric cantor tells cnn it was a useful meeting. all day long we've got hearing of talk of some kind of short-term deal that would raise debt limit. thanks goodness it won't include any -- the question is, will that fly with some of the more ardent opponents? >> look, i think no one knows yet what's happening. my hunch is that the white house meeting was on the debt ceiling, not on the continuing resolution. and i think we'll have to wait and see how this sorts out. >> and we have some guests to help us do that. >> we are very lucky. senator ted cruz of texas in "crossfire" tonight, along with sheldon whitehouse of rhode island. we are delighted to have both of

you with us. >> glad to be here. >> welcome to "crossfire." we're going to start with you. well, you know, you kind of got us into this whole situation. you're the guy, you had this great plan, you're going to take obama care out. this plan seems to have come up short. now the conversation seems to have moved on, left you behind. paul ryan puts out this "wall street journal" op-ed, doesn't include oobama care. now we're going to lift the debt cele. would you support paul ryan moving forward to get this debt ceiling resolved without -- >> well, look, van, you're trying hard. i've got to give you credit for that. an awful lot of washington would like to change the subject. an awful lot of washington would like to stop focusing on obama care. but you know who hasn't stopped focusing on it? the american people. the reason the house of representatives has stood strong on obama cash is millions of americans said this't