and everybody, everything he touched. >> in a way it's fair. >> it's fair? >> did a good movie. >> coppola, he didn't [ muted ] it up? >> no. ♪ they don't look friendly. who are those anyway? some ugly dutch guys it looks like with guns. i'm guessing not particularly friendly to the current power. they look like they're all coming from or going to oppressing a black man. first order of business, man. when i take my country back, first order of business is to

take that shit down. am i right or what? i'm kind of amazed. tear that [ muted ] down. ♪ i took a walk through this beautiful world ♪ ♪ felt the cool rain on my shoulder ♪ ♪ found something good in this beautiful world ♪ ♪ i felt the rain getting colder ♪ ♪ sha la la la la ♪ sha la la la la la la ♪ sha la la la la ♪ sha la la la la la la ♪

♪ in july 2013, when i went to south africa, 95-year-old nelson mandela was critically ill. and the country he freed from white minority rule was already in mourning and already fearful of what the future might be without him. >> we still need him. he's the guy who fought for our freedom. >> i pray that he -- somebody takes the baton from him. >> i wish him a speedy recovery. and come back to his people. ♪

♪ >> so a good friend of mine, a really great travel writer, said something. the more i travel the less i know. i feel that particularly strongly in south africa, a place i came in a state of near total ignorance. loaded with preconceptions. for the first part of my life, the south africa i knew was not a happy place or a good place. it was a pariah state. surrealistically, outrageously divided into black and white. a throwback to attitudes we thought we'd long learned to reject. ♪ the nationalist government in south africa enacted apartheid laws in 1948. who you could marry. where you lived. where you could walk, be educated, everything decided by racist laws backed by police, army and secret services.

the institutionalized racial discrimination was designed to maintain white minority power and economically suppress the black and mixed-race south africans who lived in townships, mostly in poverty. in 1923 the african national congress was formed. by 1961 it had been radicalized by the influence of a young nelson mandela, among others, and formed an armed wing called the spear of the nation. >> do you see africans being able to develop in this country without the europeans being pushed out? >> we have made it very clear in our policy that south africa is a country of many races. there is room for all the various races. >> in 1963 mandela was charged with sabotage and conspiracy and

sentenced to life imprisonment on robben island. it would take another 27 years of silence and injustice before the inevitable would happen. >> do you believe in apartheid? >> i believe according to god's will that the white race should be preserved. >> with south africa's white minority under international sanctions, internal political pressure and the decline of the communist threat, mandela was released from prison in 1990. in '94 he was elected president of the new, free south africa. ♪ there have been very few figures in the entire history of the world as revered or as important as nelson mandela. but the question is, what happens next? ♪ >> johannesburg, or joburg or jozi.

the largest city by population in south africa and the economic powerhouse of the country. southwest of johannesburg, soweto. originally an acronym for southwestern townships. now the area is considered a suburb. [ speaking in foreign language ] ♪ in 2010 south africa played host to the world cup. the blackjacks who played for the opening celebration are a soweto-based band. they are also, not surprisingly, soccer fans. ♪

♪ we're here on game day. a grudge match in a country where soccer approaches religion. you can feel it in soweto, or rather, you can see it as everywhere you look people show their love for either the local orlando pirates or for the johannesburg kaiser chiefs. mawilies inn. a typical local joint in soweto. the perfect place to watch a game, talk about a game, drink yourself silly over the results of a game, or just have a very fine local-style meal. it is, however, a little hard to find. there are a lot of places like this? this used to be like the garage or the carport, right? >> yeah. definitely. >> in what was once a garage are now six tables. a lawn turned lounge out back. closed on sundays if grandma's visiting.

these kinds of bars were born during apartheid times when black south africans not allowed to own businesses in white areas adapted and improvised. they did their own thing. created these little micro, under the official radar restaurants known around here as eat houses. >> back in the days, obviously, it was illegal. >> right. >> during apartheid. so they will have meetings to actually plan what they're going to do. >> right. so this would be considered a hotbed of sedition. >> exactly. >> now it's just a hotbed of drinking. >> yeah. >> different kind of sedition. >> mpumi and tsapeng from the blackjacks have just finished watching the game when i join them for some food. >> generally speaking, are these good times for south africa? bad times? transitional times? >> 1994 was the peak of the good time in south africa. then now with the other politics

and other parties fighting, it's quite tense right now. >> it's not like it was before where everybody's -- you know, it's black and white. literally. like we're unified on this and they're unified on that. >> these days the party that freed the country from white rule, the anc, is not universally loved anymore. in recent years they've been criticized for inaction, corruption and cronyism. and opposition parties are gaining strength. >> so now it's more nuanced. and i think that's -- that's maybe new to us. so i think we're trying to navigate this nuanced reality. like how do you deal with so many opinions? and you know, the party that you loved the whole time, that brought about this freedom, is fumbling the ball. so what do you do? because in democracy you should act. >> ah.

>> there's the smileys. >> smileys. fire-roasted sheep's head. lips shrivelled back in a joker-like rictus of deliciousness. chopped into tasty, tasty bits and eaten with cold beer? yes, of course, yes. just needs a little salt and pepper. >> good stuff. that looks good. >> this is pap. >> what is it? >> it's like maize. >> pap or meal pap, a stucky porridge made from ground cornmeal. it fills the role that grits do in the american south, rice in much of asia. it's tasty, relatively nutritious, and cheap filler. and it sops up gravy when you have something like this stewed beef real good. >> that's a dumpling. >> that's a dumpling? >> yeah. not like other dumplings. >> dumplings. important throughout the africa diaspora. made with flour and yeast. a spongy, bread-type tool for mopping up sauce.

stewed greens, carrots, beans and more gravy. >> that's awesome. so tell me about your band. how long have you guys been together? >> about ten years now. >> whoa. a long time. >> yeah. >> would you say you were an indie band? is there an indie theme in the -- i guess what i'm getting at, is there a -- is there a support -- >> is there a south african williamsburg? ♪ >> in terms of south african street culture, people are really pushing the boundaries now. we didn't really have a theme when we started. you look around. it's like, man, like demographic is crazy. >> what do you mean by that? >> it's not just racial, but classes, you know. >> people are being pushed and pulled. >> it's like an aspirational

culture. >> what do you think that means? >> the whole rainbow nation notion was quite romantic and ridiculous. you know, like racism is not on a piece of paper. so just because we voted it out doesn't mean people stop being racist. so it was ridiculous in that sense. but we've lived something else for 20 years. people want it. it's no longer like a coffee table idea. ♪ this was the hardest decision i've ever had to make. jim, i adore the pool at your hotel. anna, your hotels have wondrous waffle bars.

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and feel better about doing it. better it with benefiber. life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps end our night before it even starts? what if i eat the wrong thing? what if? what if i suddenly have to go? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisadvocates.com to connect with a patient advocate from abbvie for one-to-one support and education. make my mark i wawith pride.ork. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars. ♪ ♪ so you can get out of your element. so you can explore a new frontier

and a different discipline. get two times the points on travel and dining at restaurants from chase sapphire preferred. so you can be inspired by great food once again. chase sapphire preferred. so you can. ♪ [ speaking in foreign language ] this is sanza sandile. pioneer of sorts. he's taken a traditional cook shop space in the yoville

neighborhood of johannesburg and done something different. >> hello, beautiful. >> where have you been? thank you. >> yeoville is a neighborhood where just about everybody comes from somewhere else. >> i came here around ten years ago from soweto. i grew up in soweto. then when we heard about the bells of change, we all ran to this central part of the city. >> with the end of apartheid and the emergence of mandela as not just an inspirational figure but the beginning of real and compassionate black african government, south africa became a beacon and a refuge for millions of africans from all over the continent. black south africans fought hard for their freedom and their country. as i understand, a lot of them are pretty pissed off about hey, we're just getting our [ muted ] together and all these congolese and nigerians are coming in. >> there's got to be that giving and taking. and people have been saying mandela's going to die, going to kick all these people away. that's not what our people are all about. and then now that's when i took

the tool of food because that's the first way to engage. >> sanza has no formal culinary training. he's completely self-taught. picking up bits and pieces where he can, often from the women in the neighborhood. >> so you're plucking the best of everybody's culinary culture. >> every day. every day i learn. the smell. the colors. what are you eating? where are you from? i've been taught by some men. that's not how it's cooked at home, you know? go to that auntie. to the back of some dingy club. there's a small kitchen. look there, it'll be nice. she'll teach you something. you know, and that's me. hey, auntie, you know, i'm really keen on how you're making your particular sauce. >> and they'll show you? >> they'll show me stuff. i pick up. then i rush back to the shop and i try it out. so i've got all the elements now. >> at his cook shop he mixes recipes, ingredients, techniques and traditions as he sees fit. one reviewer described his style as gastronomic smuggling. moving people across borders

with dishes that slyly partake of elsewhere. on today's menu -- >> i made this for you. this is egusi and beef. a traditional nigerian dish. they usually use cow leg. >> beef stewed with melon and pumpkin seeds. there's futu. ubiquitous cornmeal porridge. but made to a texture more crumbly than pap. >> this is basamati rice with rose water. they're pickled. this is with casava. the congolese use the casava. this is falafel. >> good taste. awesome. good food here. you change every day? >> that's the idea. >> you have a lot of good food in a small space. >> there are no seats. his customers remain part of the evolving street theater of yeoville. they mingle, talk, observe. >> lots of people, lots of stories pass through here. lots of culture interaction.

because everybody's got something interesting to see as far as we're concerned. >> with food i knew food is a way to engage. you've got to put something in your mouth to get your ears open. ♪ >> across town, another pioneer of sorts. an urban settler in a very different neighborhood. this is hillbrow. a notoriously dangerous district. and this is dj lez. >> when i came here, i always dreamt of being a musician. i imagined myself singing in front of huge crowds, you know, making money in the process. that's what i dreamt about. >> he spins records and promotes acts and events in nightclubs. we meet in his favorite spot, sympathy's restaurant. what's good? what do you like? that looks good. is that fried chicken? >> that's the fried chicken. >> the place is heavy with the smell of frying chicken, stewing greens.

walk right up. place your order. and be sure to get some mill pap. heaped on a plate with beats and coleslaw, it's a nice, heavy base. >> tell me about the neighborhood. >> when i first came, it was rough, my friend. >> before '92 it was like white business district? residential district? >> back then it used to be clean. it used to be respected. >> once hillbrow was an elite whites-only center of town. but when things started to change, so did hillbrow. becoming one of the first gray areas where whites and blacks mixed. hillbrow became aspirational. a symbol of everything black africans had long been denied but was now accessible. people poured in in large numbers. many of them squatters from all over the continent. >> people come here, they come here with one intention. making a living.

making money. started coming here. white guys kind of -- >> white landlords and tenants simply walked away from their property. the disenfranchised who moved in legally, semilegally, illegally or just squatting, an influx of gangs and criminal organizations, the area soon slipped into anarchy. >> there's a saying around here. okay? this building's been hijacked. >> entire buildings were seized to become superstores for i illis-it drug operations. everything that could go wrong did. >> people make a living from different things. some hurt people to make a living. some they sell their bodies. sometimes things aren't always according to what you plan. this is where i live. this is where my life is.

i'll show you. >> we walk down the street and one of the many enterprises doing business on corners and in doorways around us becomes alarmed at the sight of our cameras. soon there's a mob of very angry people coming our way. we do not turn around our cameras for obvious reasons. these days things are slowly, slowly improving. >> but before, you wouldn't walk this freely. now we are free. >> there's actual law enforcement going on in fits and starts. and that's making a difference. black-owned legitimate businesses have gained a real foothold. there are new revitalization projects like farmer's markets springing up. buildings are being reclaimed. and people here hope that hillbrow is past the bad old days. >> there's no fear now. you have to relax. ♪

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♪ ♪ it's where i come from

♪ what's in a name? if the name is soweto, you best believe it means plenty. this is madu. for over a decade he's been in what has at times been the very difficult business of driving a taxi. you should probably know that the word "taxi" in soweto means something a little different than, say, new york.

>> 60% of the population is using taxi. >> how many taxis do you have in soweto? >> i would say more than a million. >> this coming from a particular passenger means soweto. also this and this. johannesburg has an elaborate system of hand signals indicating desired routes of travel. >> you're looking at the hand signals and say i'm not going there, i'm not going there. >> i'm looking at hand signals. >> in 1994 soweto came into being as a less benign version of a housing project. it was designed as workers' lodging, a place to put black laborers, comfortably removed from white society. a ghetto. by the 1950s it had become the center of resistance to white rule. synonymous with the struggle against the whole rotten racist system. >> i remember one day the situation was so bad in such a way that my mother had to put me inside a box where we put shoes and hide me there under the bed. this is where i grew up. most of the time. and sometimes you would get bullied.

there was this time guys were following me. they lifted me up and i had probably some few coins in my pocket and just turned me around just to shake me upside down. i will never forget that moment in my life. i felt stupid, you know? >> how are you? >> hello. >> now there is a definite cachet to having lived in soweto. a very real pride back at being in the center of things when it was hard and dangerous to have an opinion. nelson mandela lived here. desmond tutu. when you're of a certain age and you say you were born and bred in soweto, it means something. do mostly people own their homes or rent? >> mostly people own their homes. >> they start to make a little more money, things start to get a little better. can you build up? >> yeah, you can build up. >> look at the streets here and you see what that kind of pride does. it may not be a rich area, but it's immaculate. squared away. an emerging middle class coming up, rather than fleeing to elsewhere.

>> having a nice day. >> bye. >> those ladies over here you can see marketing for their stalls. >> you know where you're going, right? >> yeah. i know where i'm going. >> next exit? smoky delicious meat over flame. under the overpass, all sorts of mystery meats for sale. the taxi man's lunch. we order some brisket, some sausage, some heart. beautiful thing. meat, a cutting board, a knife. >> that's how you eat it. most of the time they serve it with tomato and raw chili. there's more over here. you have salt over here. >> you chose well. these guys are good.

♪ >> here, spread over thousands of square feet, the remnants of white colonial rule. what's left from the descendants of bible-thumping dutch settlers who came here to farm, to ranch, to build their own world on top of an existing one. the boers, as they were known, came in the 1600s. and if nothing else can be said about them, they were a tough bunch of bastards. in the 1800s the british came. diamonds were discovered. greed heads jockeyed for power. there was war, and an ugly one. in the end there was an uneasy sharing of power. the boers became known as ave e afrikaners. in the 20th century racist afrikaners ideology grew. apartheid was enacted. and white domination became the rule for almost 100 years. but look. meat. you want to see an expat south african weep, wave some of this

under their nose. it's like a mussolini-themed restaurant? >> yeah. that's it. that's it. neofascist butchery. >> oh, the good old days. >> doesn't really look like any butcher i've ever been into. >> an hour north by northwest of johannesburg is pretoria. still the administrative center of south africa. once the heart of apartheid. here you can find mater's, a father-son butchery, restaurant, and themed museum. i just don't know how i feel about this place. it doesn't fit in with my white liberal guilt sensibility. >> all of this afrikaaner paraphernalia just wouldn't be accepted. couldn't exist. >> as any south african butcher would, they sprinkle salt, brown sugar, more vinegar. pack in layers, repeat. after 24 hours remove and hang to air dry for a week. voila. a tasty jerky treat we can all get behind. chef andrea burgener, south

african by birth, english and german by background, can usually be found in the trenches of her joburg restaurant, the leopard. she's known for her playful menus but loathes culinary fashion. she strives for a locally grounded cuisine. today, she's my guide through this twilight zone. ♪ it's weird here. and though i'm told the place usually reflects the changing demographic of modern south africa, today not so much. the customers may or may not have feelings about the afrikaner memorabilia. but really they just come for meat. you pick your meat at the butcher counter. we choose some t-bone, some rum steak, some boerwurst, spicy sausage made from beef and pork. >> our secret ingredient is monkey gland sauce.

do you know what monkey gland sauce is? >> monkey gland sauce. >> every steak house has monkey gland sauce. it's barbecue sauce. >> they cook it up along with some pap and fries and presto. a colon-clogging pile of meat in the ruins of empire. >> yeah. i mean, meat is a very big thing. this is the monkey gland. and there's enough of it, i think. >> good lord. i can swim in it. >> tastes like oppression. >> after this show airs, i'm going to get a huge amount of mail saying why didn't you go to capetown? great modern restaurants. cutting-edge chefs. is it all right that i missed all of that? >> i feel like those particular restaurants in capetown are not really representative of what most people in this country are eating. i think a lot of our most basic stuff is really what we do best. this food has absolutely got no interest in fashion. it's never going to change. there'll still be the monkey gland sauce. and the boerwurst and the steaks and the -- >> you think the white chefs

here understand the greatest advantage they have is that this enormous pan-african larder of ingredients and flavors? >> no. if you're a whitey in the city you're probably going to eat the worst food of anyone in the city, quite honestly. in every country, obviously food is political. but it always feels like it's a bit more political here. that there are these layers of things that you couldn't have. like restaurants. i go to restaurants. and i think to myself, wow, this many years ago i couldn't have come here with this person. they were not allowed to sit in here. and i remember very clearly being around 8. the cafe owner would regularly not pay the customer who was black with change. he would pay him with bubble gum. and the guy, somehow he couldn't argue. it was just this thing. if you were a black guy, you got your change in bubble gum. and you were standing there 8 years old and feeling like oh, my god, it was so terrible. but you couldn't say anything because that would have been worse.

it was this very weird thing of sweeties. it was so innocent and represented such badness. it just seems mad. ♪ [ male announcer ] campbell's angus beef & dumplings. hearty cheeseburger. creamy thai style chicken with rice. mexican-style chicken tortilla. if you think campbell's 26 new soups sound good, imagine how they taste. m'm! m'm! good!

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this is an eland. the largest antelope in the world. it is also, unluckily for him, delicious. [ gunshots ] >> got him. >> i think that was very good. >> it's a little sad. >> but you know what? that is such good meat. and that's really what we do. >> though this one weighs in around a ton, rest assured, every bite, every scrap will be eaten.

some of that tonight at dinner. chef andrea burgener, deon, a local hunting expert, and myself join prospero bailey on his game farm. prospero's dad jim bailey was the legendary publisher of the slyly subversive "drum" magazine, the first of its kind during apartheid. a black-oriented investigative magazine slickly disguised as glossy pop culture. prospero's farm is a mere 20 miles from johannesburg. >> you see the city there? >> yeah. you have all this within sight of the city. >> near prospero's farm and hidden within the city's shadow is what's known as the cradle of humankind. a unesco world heritage site. an incredible look back at where we, the human animal, came from. >> it's a classic little sinkhole. >> there are loads of these. this is what this area is. i mean, the cradle. this is called the cradle.

it's now a world heritage site. because 60% of all the evidence for human evolution comes out of this valley. it's from caves like this that keep the record. that geology just conspires to preserve fossils. they're very, very rare things. hominid fossils. but they're found more here in the last ten years than they're sort of found anywhere. so you're home. this is where you started. >> this is my ancestral homeland? >> this is your ancestral homeland. ♪ >> that sound makes me happy. what does that sound remind you of, guys? what does that evoke for you, that sound? primeval. happy childhoods at the beach. meat sizzling over the fire. you know, parental love. your enemy's genitals frying in hot oil? nothing? no? >> downright precambrian. fire and fresh-killed eland.

i get to work on the heart. something i strongly suspect will be delicious. and i'm right. andrea works her magic on the liver. dredged in flour and sauteed. this an eland loin seared and glazed with booze. then there's eland paprikash. a riff on the hungarian stew with paprika, peppers, onion, tomatoes and cream. as the sun sets over the velt, johannesburg's lights blinking in the distance, a feast. meat on the plate. blood on my pants. life is good. i've been very, very, very confused by my visit here. i mean, you've got basically a goulash here. italian-inflected liver thing going on here. the bread someone referred to as portuguese? >> yep. >> portuguese but it's from madera. that bread. flat bread. >> south africa depending on who i talk to is a completely different construct. to some people it's whoever

comes to south africa from anywhere else in of course and brings good [ muted ] along with them. other people, it's all the good stuff from malaysia, east indies. there's the dutch. there's the english influence. >> there were so many different colonialists. >> exactly. >> it's exactly what it is. >> what at this table is originally african, and does that even have any meaning? >> this wood is pine. >> i arrived in this country spectacularly ignorant. i will leave spectacularly ignorant. no matter how busy your morning you can always do something better for yourself. and better is so easy with benefiber. fiber that's taste-free, grit-free and dissolves completely. so you can feel free to add it to anything. and feel better about doing it. better it with benefiber.

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ramadan. at this hour all over johannesburg members of south africa's sizable muslim community observe. the religion of islam as well as many of south africa's most beloved and most delicious dishes and ingredients like sambal, chutney and bunny chow come from malaysia, indonesia, india. during apartheid many south africans would have been referred to as colored. colored didn't mean black. it meant everybody else who wasn't exactly white. asians and mixed race.

>> it's garlic, ginger and chiles. >> in the observatory neighborhood of johannesburg, the rasdian family prepares for iftar, the meal at sundown when fasting for ramadan is broken. >> some curry powder. >> joey rasdian is a stand-up comedian and actor of cape malay background. this dish, panang curry with beef and eggs. joey's wife, cindy, prepares a chicken pie. son hakeem makes the traditional ramadan shake. daughter, leia. ♪ >> everything smells terrific. >> that's bali soup. >> nice.

>> it's nicer to have soup after you've not eaten the whole day. it's light and nourishing and filling and all of those good things. >> there's also cheese and beef samosas. >> these are delicious. you were born here. born in johannesburg? >> yes, i was. i'm a johannesburg guy. >> so how are things? >> it depends what type of things you're speaking about. >> basically, things work. society operates the way society should. but on the other hand, in many ways this is a new country. >> it is. it's 19 years old. >> everybody's from someplace else. >> i think the africans from the other countries see south africa as a place of hope. because if there's a lot bustling here, there are a lot of opportunities. lots of people might get from here. 3 million germans or 3 million french people coming here. it's africans who come from far less who find a little bit of something here. >> so how do you find south africa so far? >> i like it. i'm very comfortable here. i like a country where people

have a sense of humor. there's a lot of ball busting going on in this country. >> all the time. from the top to the bottom. >> 20 years from now what's south africa going to be like? >> their generation, the born frees now, is the ones that's giving our current president lots of hell. the born frees is the ones that was born in the new democracy. >> right. >> or just before the first election. >> right. >> the born frees are like, look here, we went to school. this is right and this is wrong. what you're doing is wrong. but we had a struggle. >> yeah. >> yeah, i don't care. thank you for the struggle. >> now i want five bars on my 3g. i want wi-fi. >> absolutely. >> and it better be high-speed. >> absolutely. >> and why can't i have it? >> why can't i have it? >> i don't think the current politicians foresaw that. >> yeah. >> foresaw the born frees not supporting them.

>> there's a critical mass of young people that wants to change south africa in a positive way. how they do it or how they go about it, i don't know the answer to that. neither do they know the answer to that. but their intentions is clear. ♪ i was made to work.

make my mark with pride. create moments of value. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars. life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisinfo.com to get your complimentary q&a book, with information from experts on your condition.

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no more hipster jokes. it's low-hanging fruit. and one can no longer argue against the steady creep of their foodie sensibilities. artisanal cheeses. yes. right over there. handmade charcuterie, yes. right over there. thin-crust pizza, a very respectable paella, yes, yes, and yes. it's official. they're here and they aren't going anywhere. i like the idea of a burger for breakfast. there's something a little perverse about that. >> throw in a crowd of much more racially diverse and hungry people and you might think you're in brooklyn. surely, this is not a bad thing. this is neighbor goods market in the bramfontaine precinct of johannesburg. my dining companion city press arts and features writer percy mumbando says we should hold out for this. the balkan burger. >> next.

>> one with cheese for me. >> one with cheese. lots of cheese. >> flattened ground beef seared over flame. >> yeah. don't cook me. cook the food, right? >> add kashkaval and mozzarella cheese, fold it up, pick your condiments. you've got cabbage, tomato, onion, lettuce, tomato of course, and hot peppers. up to the roof with a view and eat. >> ooh. it's spicy. good. i guess i want to talk about nelson mandela. because what i was not aware of at all was the degree to which he was personally responsible for really the nuts and bolts of the transition from white rule to majority rule. now he's very ill. >> yeah, yeah. >> what happens after mandela do you think? >> we go on. i think the foundation is laid. and i think thank god we have

him as a symbol. i think mandela represents our collective better intentions as a nation. the test we use to check the way forth. >> all the things that could have gone terribly wrong, it's a remarkable thing how well it went. >> between 1990 and 1994 tough times, you know, internecine fighting, black-on-black violence. black-on-white violence. are we going to descend into a -- but we transcended that coming together regardless of the unresolved issues. >> what extent are things getting mixed? we like to think we live in a rainbow nation, but in fact, in the states black and white live to a great extent in different neighborhoods. it's only 19 years. in some ways it looks to me outside looking in a little more gracefully mixed up than we've managed to pull off successfully in the states. >> here, i mean, you've got black, white, colored, all sorts of people here.

but i think in all fairness also once you acknowledge that the economic disparities are managing to keep us divided as well. i think what we need to do is unpack what we mean by rainbow. i think the idea of being united in our diversity also means that, you know, there will be moments of discord. >> and you think things will continue to improve? >> yeah. i think we've seen our worst. and that's not to say that we're getting it right all the time. but it's an experiment with democracy, an experiment you find need to find as you go along. that's really the south african story. the dream is there. we all agree that the visions are there. but these are not bigger than our hopes. he >> what did i know about south africa before i came here? exactly nothing, as it turns out. but i think based on what i've seen that if the world can get it right here, a country with a past like south africa's, if they can figure out how to make it work here for everybody,

absorb all the people flooding in from all over africa, continue to make mandela's dream a reality, maybe there's hope a reality, maybe there's hope for the rest of us. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> announcer: the following is a cnn special report. ♪ lance armstrong salutes the crowd. seven times the winner of the tour de france. >> a moment of triumph now turned epic disgrace. after years of strenuous denial, in january lance armstrong finally admitted in an interview with oprah winfrey that he had used performance-enhancing drugs. >> i view the situation as one big lie. >> the united states anti-doping agency, or usada, says that armstrong