$2.6 trillion takeover of the health care industry, health -- >> martha blackburn, we've got to -- unfortunately we have to leave it there. we'll continue on another day. thanks very much. >> thank you so much, wolf. bye-bye. that's it po me. thanks for watching. "crossfire" starts right now. . tonight the onlie fiascos. >> there's no sugarcoating it. the website has been too slow, people are getting stuck dural 9 application process. nobody is more frustrated than i am. >> who is to blame? and what should be done? on the left stephanie cutter. on the right newt gingrich. in abandi harris, a republican congressman, who is also a doctor, fixing what ails obama care. is it a hopeless case? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm stephanie cutter on the

left. >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. in the crossfire tonight, ann felipic, and andy harris. obama care is a train wreck. the problems are so widespread and so obvious, some people think it's hopeless. i've joined those who are calling for secretary sebelius to be fired. today even president obama tried to tamp down the anxiety. >> nobody's madder than me, which means it's going to get fixed. >> but, you know, the problem is that this creates a general sense the anxiety. if the federal government after 3 1/2 years can't get a website right, why would you believe that they're also going to get the doctor right, they're going to get the procedure right medically. this is a really complicated process. don't you agree that this has been a much more disappointing

start than you had hoped for? >> i don't think anybody should be happy with the way this has been rolled out, and the president made that clear today. however, let's be clear about something. you've been rooting for the failure of this law since even before it passed, and every day since, so i think you're viewers should just be clear on that. >> and you're rooting for its success. >> i have. i have not made a secret of it. but i think people should no know the context of our comments. have there been technical glitches? absolutely. but this law is about providing people quality affordable health care. despite all of these glitches that i'm sure we'll talk about all night, that there are almost a half million people who have signed up. on the first day. 2.5 people went there. so there is demand for this law. these things happen. remember what michael dell said about steve jobs when he took over apple in 1997 -- forget it, sell everything, give it up, and now apple dominates the

marketplace. this appears. it's going to take time to get it up and running. it doesn't matter what happens today, it has to be up and running by december 15th. so let's bring in our tests into the crossfire. an phillipic is -- maryland congressman and doctor andy harris, first elected on a promise to repeal obama care. dr. harris, congressman harris, whichever you prefer. first question, there's pent-up demand for this law, proven in the two weeks this website has been up and running, 20 million people have gone to the website to check out their options. 2.5 million on the first day, a half million people have signed up. so there's pent-up demand for reform. they've been waiting deck cases for it. you're an opponent of obama care. you have not been rooting for its succeed, but this is the law, we have to make this work. with you put aside your

political motivations here, and help fix this and makes it a success. >> some things are just not fixable. aseed from the people thattant get on the website. i have e-mails from people in muir district who have insurance, and they're seeing their premiums double, increase 50%, sears their deductibles go up. it's the people who don't really need to get on the website who have insurance who are beginning to suffer. is the health insurance system broken? yeah, it is, but getting the federal government to a one size fits all approach, you know, it's probably -- >> but it's not one size fits all. that's now what the law says inch but it is, though. >> what's happening in maryland is very different from what's happening in ohio. >> the plans have to be the same, they have to have certain mandated coverages, they're expensive, risk adjust in ways that are going to increase the cost for many people.

they will decrease the cost for some. >> for most people the costs go down. >> oh, no, no, no. most people who -- on the exchanges in maryland, the average premium went up 25%, 25% in maryland. >> i think that we differ on those facts. >> in state after state, there are only seven states where the costs went down. now, look, the people on the exchanges getting subsidies no question about it, they're benefiting. it's at the expense of everyone else, and our business environment, our small businesses who say they're uncertain. they don't even have the regulation. >> i just think the facts on the ground aren't adding up. these are the same talking points we've been hearing for 3 1/2 years now. i'm anxious to hear from ann, who is actually on the ground signing people up. i think that people's costs are going down, because there's competition in the marketplace. for those who have never been

ability to get insurance, they now have options. that's going to brings everybody's costs down. >> it absolutely will not, especially when the government runs it. >> the government is not running it. it's private insurance. >> it has dot-gov behind it. >> the government is et issing a whole series of standards with a whole series of requirement. within that framework you can make arguments. i want to go back to where we are today and why the president had to have the press conference today. you played a significant role on organizing this and helping trying to around for people -- did you ever in your wildest dream the first couple weeks would be this big a fiasco? illustrates i think anyone working on this issue like enroll america is doing, i don't think anyone would sit here and

denies frustration. we expected better from the website, hhs, the administration needs to do better. what we have seen is them saying, yes, this has been unacceptable, and torque working 24/7 to improve it. we have improved it. we have seen those improvements. i think it is also very important to add some historical context. you look at a lot of different programs that now are considered great successes that had very, very rocky starts. massachusetts health care reform implementation. the first couple months were issues with the website, enrolling via paper application, only 18,000 people enrolled in the first two months. today massachusetts is the state with the lowest rates of uninsured in the country and the majority of folks living in massachusetts say they're happy with the system. medicare part d. at this point, three weeks in to medicare pavement part d, the website hadn't even launched

yet. so you see these programs that now are seen as very successful that had very, very rocky starts. there is a reason that, when congress drafted the affordable care act, they made the first enrollment six months, because there was a recognition -- you look at past programs, it's taken time to work through this. >> do you think it would have been better to have done the medicare part d approach and said until we have a beta test, until we're sure this will work, we're not going to go live? >> i think what is most important at this point is people are working night and day to make sure that it is fixed as quickly as possibility. in the meantime there are many conversations that enroll america is having, that these local nonprofits, community health centers are having with the unsome are. when we think of the uninsured, you have to understand, if you haven't had health insurance, you may not even know what a premium is, so you're not ready to go through the enrollment process. you need to sit down and learn what the options are for you. >> in maryland you still don't

know the premiums. you have to actually put your social security number in before you can get a premium. that's unbelievable. you know, everyone tells you don't put your social security number on a website. in maryland you have to give your personal information just to get enrolled, and you don't even see the premium. in states like maryland, they don't want to show you the whole they only want to show the subsidize -- i find this very strange that the most transparent administration ever won't actually show you the premi premium. so the subsidized premium is what they'll be paying? >> what about the doctors? you can't sew the panels of doctors. you have to sign up for the plan with the hope that maybe your doctor is on that plan, because remember, in 2007 -- or 2009, the president sell don't worry, if you like your plan or doctor, you get to keep it. in maryland you can't even tell.

>> i know they let you compare apples to apples between plans. for the first time ever. it's never been like that. usually that veil of secrecy and confusion kind of screwed consumers. >> it tells the insurance company, it man daze what they have to sell. >> so you want it both ways? you want it to be clear, but then don't -- >> no, i have 75-year-old people writing saying they don't upds why their insurance has to cover x, y and z, things they will never need. maternity benefits, they'll never use it, their plan has to cover it. so it's one size fits all. that's the way the government tries to work. yeah, i think those benefits are widely popular. i want not to the medicare population. >> for the first time ever you don't have an annual limit. if you gets cancer, i'm not going to hit my annual limit in the first two months of treatment. if i have a preexisting condition, nobody can tell me i

can't get care. these are real reforms that aren't possible, no. >> no, in maryland we had preexisting coverage and up to age 126. we didn't need the federal government to tell us how to run or health care. >> at the same time, it does seem to me that -- and i appreciated stephanie putting a mark up earlier, december 15th. we'll remember that, but what if in fact it runs longer than that. there's a process where i think it's more complicated than you are suggesting. places are saying here's your premium and here is just what happened to your deductible. i cigarettes it's the bronze plans that have dramatically higher deductibles, for people people shopping they have not had health insurance at the past. when they have shopped, they haven't been able to find something that was affordable

and met their needs. this is a whole new world for them. so this is -- these are new opportunities for consumers. part of this that we're talking about is the affordable care act requires plans to cover essential benefits. i couldn't tell you how many stories i've heard of people who had a plan, who paid what they thought was a great deal, a low premium, and then the unimaginable happens. they get diagnosed with cancer, they get in a car accident, and lo and behold their plan doesn't wolf what they need. in their words my plan is worthless. we've got to go to a break. absolutely i think ann is right. if people who see that are deductibles going up, i think they didn't have health care before, but most people are seeing them go down and they know what their plans are able to offer. if you think obama care has problems, look at the state of

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. welcome back. republican congressman andy harris, just so there's no confusion. only 20% of the people in a new cnn poll say that republican

members of congress should be reeletted. that's below where democrats were in 2010. so my question is, your also, what we just went through, which you were a supporter of, how badly has that damaged the republican party? >> when 80% of the americans have -- according to home. >> now, the people are getting subsidies will be happen. businesses as they aprosh -- they're going to start hiring part time again. >> so you're just riting for the failure? >> we're just reporting what's happening. when america sees what this is about, they'll remember one

party said this plan will not work for the majority of americans. they'll require that at the polls next time. >> hey, we'll see, but fast-forward this to january for me, when we're back in the budget negotiations, and have to make some pretty big decisions, you are a supporter of the plan to shut down the government over obama care. will you be supporting that -- >> wait a minute, we voted four times to keep the government open. it was the democrat that is voted against the plan. >> a majority of your caucus, a majority of the house of representatives wanted to vote on a clean budget bill that had nothing to do with obama care and your leadership wouldn't let that happen. so therefore, the government shut down. is that what we're going to get in january? >> i don't ask the president. the president says he's not going to negotiate on anything. i don't understand. in the american system, i don't -- >> on repeal obama care. >> actually we weren't talking about repeal, stephanie. we were talking about delay the

initial mandate. >> defund. >> stephanie, the sunday before the shutdown, the bill that went to the senate was no special deals. >> you did change your demands over time. >> if we think special deals are good, let's have at it. >> let me, ann, pick up on a part of what congressman harris was saying earlier. i this think it helps to look at the picture of the president today and the 13 people who were standing with him. it's fascinating, good both of you understand perfectly, but only three of the 13 people are directly affected. the rest were there testifies that they're really happy, that they didn't in fact at this stage sign you said. the wo many that introduced him, it took seven hours to sign up. here's the question. i think you're being successful in places like oregon, getting young people to sign up for medicaid, but there's a danger

actuarily, if if this is different enough young people will decide they're willing to pay the tax and not sign up for it. at that point, isn't the underlying structure in real trouble by january or february this that turns out to be the scales? >> i think was the name of the woman who introduced the president, that she went through the process and was willing to spend seven hours to go through and go through the process of enrolling in coverage. that says something about what this means to her. that is reflected in the conversations we've had. we've had conversations with over 16,000 individuals across the country since october 1. consumers are frustrated. but they remain undeterred. when you look at the success, the long-term success of the affordable care act, and the fact that janis was willing to

do that. we've heard for a very long time that young, healthy people weren't going to have any interest in this. it's too early to make any declarations about that. in the first week or two, the state of connecticut put out some numbers. one out of three folks were under the age of 35. one man got a plan for $70 a month. the difference is his previous plan was a catastrophic plan that only allowed him to visit the doctor three times in a year. the new plan is a gold plan that covers much more been fnefits. the issues of health care.gov need to be resolved but people are hungry. >> in maryland we have a lot of young people who go to the website and sign up but don't sign up for the plan. i think they're seeing the premiums.

they're seeing the costs. i think they're looking at those $6,000 deductibles. in maryland it's 6350. and i think if they think about it, they're thinking wait a minute, i got to pay a monthly premium or i can pay a couple $0 hundred dollars. or i can pay $114 a month which is the cheapest plan, not 80 like the president said. and then i'd have to pay the first $6,000 out of my pocket, except for the three routine visits, which actually young people don't go to the doctor three times a year. that's just the way they are. so i don't think they're going to see value in it. even subsidized, i don't think they're going to see value in it. >> if you need high-risk insurance you're very grateful for it. but is there a risk that this becomes a high risk pool rather

than a very broad pool. >> it's not the case. people, including young, healthy people who understand the financial peace of mind that comes with having health insurance, that they want it. so i don't think -- >> young healthy people -- >> i love these anecdotes. why is the administration not making it public? >> making what public? >> who's signing up? >> they are. >> my sense here is an awful lot of the younger people who are signing up are signing up for medicaid. >> that's not proving to be true. you're talking about oregon. they reduced their uninsured population in two weeks by 10%. some of that is medicaid. but some is health care. >> the majority is medicaid. >> there are indications that young, healthy people are signing up for this.

>> they could buy it actually cheaper than under the affordable care act unless they get a subsidy. and some people will get a subsidy. in maryland, for young healthy people the premiums went up by as much as 150%. the fact of the matter is this is not affordable insurance unless you get the subsidy. because somebody else is bpayin for your premium. but if you're a business that has to figure out how many workers to have, it's not a good deal. >> we want you to weigh in on today's fire back question. should the insurance mandate be delayed due to obama care website failures? we'll have the results after the break. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online but they didn't fit. customer's not happy, i'm not happy.

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we're back. now let's call a cease-fire. is there anything we can agree on? you two get to start. >> so ann, clearly the health insurance system was broken. it was complicated. it was hard for people to get insurance. there were lifetime caps for instance. and it's good that we now have a discussion going on nationally about health insurance with groups like yours that actually go out and try to educate people about t because it's a complicated product to buy. >> absolutely. i think where we difficult is if

the affordable care act is a good solution. and i'll tell you that in the conversation that we and rural america are having, folks are so hungry for the facts and to have an organization to show up and say here's what's available to you. and i tell you, when we're talking to them about the fact that at these health insurance markets, you can't be denied because of a pre-existing condition, help is available to pay for it, that goes a long way. he think that's probably where we disagree. but i think the fundamental belief that the system hasn't worked before is something that we can agree on. >> that was a great cease-fire. thank you. thanks to ann and congressman harris. go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fire back question. should the insurance mandate be delayed due to obama care

website failures? 51% of you say yes. and 40% of you say no. the debate continues online. from the left, i'm stephanie cutter. from the right, i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of crossfire. erin burnett out front starts right now. out front next, a student opens fire at school. >> they have one in the cafeteria, one in the hall. >> we're live at the scene. plus a woman nearly faints, standing behind the president today. >> you're okay. this happens when i talk too long. and this man says he's disabled. and he's suing for big money. this video has put him between a rock and a hard place. le