"shooting straight" seems appropriate for you. >> that's it for us tonight. "ac360 later" starts right now. >> good evening. breaking news. talk to the man who lost his brother in the school shooting outside reno, nevada. two students in the hospital. a teacher is dead. so is the shooter, student at the school. a day in gunshots, chaos, carnage, is slowly yielding answers how it happened and there can be answers what led to the tragedy. what's latest that we know about how it all began? stephanie, it is anderson. >> reporter: andersen, it is a complete situation of just chaos for the small community outside reno, dealing with the loss of a beloved math teacher, mike lansbury, survived tours in afghanistan, the teacher lost in the shooting at the hand of what we hear supposedly a student

there in the school at sparks middle school. we do know that two other children were also shot. and i can tell you that those two children, one was shot in the shoulder, one was shot in the abdomen. they're in the hospital seeking care there. at this point, they're saying that they think that there is nobody else involved in the shooting, just the one person there, anderson. >> stephanie, we'll continue to -- stephanie, can you hear me do you have ip? >> i can hear you. there was a press conference, were officials able to provide much more information, are a lot of the details at this point still not known? >> well, what we can tell you, too, that we heard from this press conference is that the gun that was used, they believe came from the parents' of the student who was at the heart of the shooting that he go out. a handgun he got from his parents, they believe at this point. they're also saying the two children that were shot are now in stable condition. so, some good news there. but they also say, a lot of this

had to do with not being a wider spread disaster because of the fact that the teachers on campus reacted immediately. and made sure they locked down the classrooms. got the students in. locked the doors down. and this all happened within three minutes. police were here at the school. in three minutes. by that point, everything was done, andersen. >> have they talked about motive at all? why this -- why this student would have done this? >> they are still trying to sort out whether or not the student was trying to target just this teacher or if he was just randomly shooting. at this point it is still unclear what his motive may have been. obviously a lot of people in the small community, basically a suburb of reno, just reeling from what happened here in the small town. >> stephanie, appreciate it. thank you very much. short time again i spoke by phone with reggie lansbury, the teacher who was killed, mike lansbury, it is his brother. >> reggie, what do you want people to know about your brother?

>> just know he loved teaching at sparks middle school. he loved the kids. loved coaching them. he loved teaching them. a good all-around individual. >> so many have said the kids loved him. loved being in his class. he also served in, overseas, in the military, correct? >> yes. yes, sir. he was in the marine corps. and in the national guard. >> he served in afghanistan. >> yes, yeah. >> have you been told by police any more about what actually happened? >> i called a few of my -- friend in law enforcement trying to get some information. and i finally, i got -- got a number to a gentleman who was on the scene there -- and he was the one who -- initially told me that michael didn't make it.

well, i guess he was killed on the scene. that was the only person that i had spoken to that has told me anything about it. >> as you know, witnesses say he tried to reason with -- with the shooter, before he, he was killed. does that sound like something, something he would do? >> yes, sir, yeah. he -- i mean growing up -- our dad was in the marine corps for 22 years. so, it was -- that was the kind of person that michael was. and he -- he would do, he was the kind of person that, if somebody needed help he would be there. so, i could -- i could see that happening. you know -- god forbid anybody get hurt.

but he was the type of person that, you know -- i mean -- you know, the student who came in and -- did what he did. he was, he probably tried to talk the kid down. i mean, and protect who ever he could. so, that sounds like mike. >> just the kind of guy he was? >> yes, sir. >> reggie, i am so sorry for your loss. please extend our condolences to the entire family. and i don't want to bother you at this time. but i just want to wish you the best and were you strength in the days ahead. thank you, reggie. >> i appreciate that. thank you very much. >> i want to turn to a mother who must have hugged her daughter faith that much tighter, faith robinson witnessed the shooting. she and her mom tara join us tonight. >> faith, i can't imagine how scary this was for you today. if you feel comfortable, can you tell me what you saw, what happened? >> when i got to school, me and my friends were talking. and then the guy just started shooting.

and -- we just ran to -- to a school. and my friend ran some where else. and started getting really worried. i was trying to get a hold of my mom. and i phone wouldn't work. >> so where were you when you were trying to call your mom? >> i was at my school on the side of the building. when my teacher -- not my teacher -- the teacher ran and he got shot. >> tara, when did you realize something was going wrong. was the call from your daughter the first indication? >> my daughter called me saying there was a shooting at the school and to come and get her. i was like "okay, i will be there." because i was on my way to go to school myself. because i go to college. and i was no more than like two minutes away from where her school was at.

>> i can't imagine what the call was like. when you got to the school, what did you see? >> all i saw was lights, ambulance, sheriffs, highway patrol. reno police department, sparks police department, guns, parents, in panic mode, they didn't know what was going on. >> did you know this-- the young man who was the shooter? >> yeah, i know him. he is -- he is in my class for first period. >> tara, when were you finally able to be reunited with faith? >> it wasn't until maybe, 9:00, i was there for about an hour and a half. took me about 45 minutes to an hour to finally see my daughter and put her in my arms and bring her home. >> well, i am so glad that -- that faith that you are okay. tara, you were able to got there so quickly and be reunited.

i appreciate you take the time to talk to us. >> you are welcome. >> follow me on twitter tonight. another school shooting. a lot happening tonight you. know about the health care website mess. we will take another angle, you need to know about, even if you managed to sign up on line. one that could cost you and your family a lot of money. how the two killers back in custody. managed to walk out of prison. the shadowy operation that may have provided the papers that sprang them. ♪ [ male announcer ] eeny, meeny, miny, go. ♪ ♪ more adventures await in the new seven-passenger lexus gx. lease the 2014 gx 460 for $499 a month for 27 months. see your lexus dealer.

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welcome back. an aspect of health care reform mess that goes beyond dysfunctional website, healthcare.gov. we learned the house committee plans to grill the contractors responsible for building it creating a mess that may take months to clean up. the hearing began thursday. today, president obama said no one is madder than him at the snafu. he said in all, healthcare.gov got 20 million visits. different than 20 million people signing up. the white house still has the not released that information. why that is? well, we don't know. president obama's focus today wasn't the numbers. in a nutshell, pretty much the website is lousy but the product is good. >> i got a letter last week from a self employed man, named john myer. in pennsylvania. he used newt marketplace to get himself and his wife covered and save a lot of money. here's what he said --

because it pretty much sums up my message today. "yes, the website really stinks for the first week. but instead of paying $1,600 per month for a group insurance plan, we had a plan that will only cost us $692 a month. a savings of $900 per month." [ applause ] >> president obama there trying to, trying to highlight the winners under affordable care act. spent a lot of time focusing on one group in particular. >> many americans with a pre-existing condition, like janice. are discovering that they can finally get health insurance like everybody else. every day people who were stuck with sky-high premiums because of pre-existing conditions after being turned down for insurance three times due to minor pre-existing conditions. if you have a pre-existing condition it will save you

money. there is no more getting denied -- denied because you had a pre-existing condition. >> turns out that is a huge number of people. nonpartisan government accountability office, 36 million to 122 million americans have pre-existing conditions. many get coverage through work and still would under this law. those who were denied before will now be covered under obama care. what about people who don't have pre-existing conditions? people who didn't have employee coverage getting a good deal on insurance now. as drew griffin found out, newt law is going to cost them. >> christie and mark are 29 years old. healthy with two healthy baby girls and one big problem. their health care company has informed them their current plan will cease in the next year because it doesn't comply with the affordable health care act. she needs to find a new plan. so christie a part time teacher and her husband who owns a video company went online. after a week of trying figured out what kind of insurance she could get under the affordable care act.

and for her, it seems unaffordable. >> i logged on, i was like, no, this is very bad. this is much higher than we were currently paying. >> reporter: their current plan costs $450 a month with a $5,000 family deductible. the bronze plan she found under healthcare.gov will cost $650 a month with a deductible between $3,500 and $6,000. christie says she has yet to find out if she qualifies for any subsidy. >> it's frustrating. we would look to know for planning for the future. >> reporter: joshua strickland, spent two weeks trying to get on the affordable care act site. he couldn't. he went to his own insurance company. blue cross/blue shield. which was able to give him quotes for renewal under a private plan and his quote under at fordable care act. the results -- no matter which way he goes, he will be paying much more. >> what i found was that the

plans made available were almost twice as expensive. his renewal under his current plan will increase by 9.8% to a monthly cost of $540. his deductible will jump too doubling from $500 to $1 t under the affordable care act, the comparable plan for himself and three children, much worse, $838 a month with a $1,000 deductible. that is after taxpayers kick in a $150 per month subsidy. >> you feel like we were told, number one, overall health care costs would come down, no that where you go out from, perhaps two, the government cost if you went on affordable care act, would be at least lower. and you are not saying, you are saying increases on both ends. >> that's correct, drew. you hit the nail on the head with that.

definitely, i was expecting to see more options, more affordable plans available, and -- and for the numbers i ran for myself, i saw just the opposite. >> then there is 56-year-old helen cummings of georgia, she retired early and has a government job making $24,000 a year. she has chosen to have no health insurance. she currently need health care, she goes to a hospital and pays the pro-rated cost for uninsured patients. >> you must have been some what excited. when she got through, signed up and found out she would not qualify for a subsidy or medicate, she learned her cheapest option under at fordable care act is between $357 and $387 a month with a $6,000 deductible. it's just too much she says. >> i was hurt. i was truly hurt. because of the fact that -- i was expecting better. i was really expecting better. >> the white house and president

hill self-made it clear there are plenty of people excited about the plans, especially those with pre-existing conditions, who are now covered. and in many cases, paying less. >> those who off already had a chance to enroll are thrilled with the result. every day people who were stuck with sky high premiums because of pre-existing conditions, are getting affordable insurance for the first time, or finding that they're saving a lot of money. every day, women are finally buying coverage that doesn't charge them higher premiums than men for the same care, every -- [ applause ] every day people are discovering new health insurance plans have to cover maternity care, mental health care, free preventative care. the treatment costs money. the affordable care act is dependent on lots of healthy people to participate. >> this doesn't work if we don't get lots and lots of healthy

people signing up. no insurance plan will work if you sick people signing up and the healthy people stay out. >> reporter: it will come down to the numbers, numbers the administration has yet to reveal. anderson because this is such a contentious topic at the white house, i want to be transparent here, we did not seek out people who found success under the affordable care act. the president touted many people with pre-existing conditions who will fare better. cnn looked for and found, these three individual cases, these are people looking forward to better coverage under the act and who wound up being disappointed. we are pointing them out. they are healthy. they need the coverage. they're the very people the government need to voluntarily sign up to make this work. >> is there any way to deter men how many americans overall have signed up. the administration isn't releasing numbers?

>> well it is tricky. cnn has pulled all of the state exchanges, 14 of them. and district of columbia. not all have returned our calls. but from the figures we know 270,000 people in the exchanges have signed up. over the weekend, we heard from health and human services. total number is now, 500,000 or about half a million. but as you said, we still don't know all of the information because the government is not telling us. >> all right. drew griffin. appreciate that. we are going to obviously be covering this a lot in the days and week as head. "the washington post," ezra klein, defender of the health care law, said this about how president obama is addressing the disaster, quoting, the problem with president obama's rose garden address and affordable care act it was identical to the speech obama would have given if the law's launch had been smooth. fair criticism? joining us two cnn commentators, cornell belcher, and kevin madden. cornell, this is the obama administration's signature piece

of legislation. they have three years to set it up. i know, obviously an obama supporter. worked as a pollster in the campaign. you have to admit this is a big misstep on their part? >> a couple things. one, i have got to tell you i am disturbed by the story. the story we ran, was a story deserving of fox than cnn. where you are cherry picking. where cases where it doesn't work. quite frankly the first family. we don't know if they, if they, if they, if the government subsidies apply. the last woman, didn't have health insurance. can get it $350 a month and complaining about it. the cherry picking there is disturbing. >> the alternative, frankly we, played the obama speech where he has all the people, all the feel good stories behind him. so the idea was sort of to counter against that. you can't just have -- the positives. >> i'm sorry, it still comes across slanted. the thing, we do know, 500,000 applicants. what we do know is in oregon where they're actually trying to implement it opposed to blocking

it, they cut it short by 10%. but let's not get bogged down in the process. this shouldn't be a bout a process, a value, what we believe in. what is unfolding now is this -- millions and millions of american families who work every day. who can't afford health care. who are one sickness away from bankruptcy will now have -- >> anderson, this is drew. i would like to step in. >> cornell, i got your point. drew you wanted to comment? >> i mean, i just was just compared to the f network, i want to defend myself. cornell, i didn't see the president, bring any body out who said here is joe blow. he has to pay more under this plan. but that is okay. buzz joe blow is going to pay for mary smith who has a pre-existing condition. we had coverage of the president all day today. we have been talking about the various example he's has of people paying less.

i wanted to bring to your attention and to everybody's attention, this is not going to be a win-win for everybody. the fact is, to pay for people with pre-existing conditions, healthy people need to pitch in. these were healthy people. all of them looking forward to signing up under this health care act. went on line and were very much disappointed. the reason we are reporting the story is because in the long term, this could also be a problem, far beyond the website that the administration may have to fix. >> drew, i want to apologize for connecting you with the f network. i know that is probably going farther than you deserve. here is my main push back. we have the president saying millions upon millions of americans will afford this. then you have cnn, saying, sort of be in the middle guy saying these are people who won't be able to afford it. we got republicans on the other side sort of making that case. i don't like cnn making the case on, making that case for the republicans. that is my push back. >> well, cornell, the president said that, you probably heard that on cnn.

and you heard it in my story as well. when the president says something and other people say something as well. >> kevin, president obama took a stab at republicans in the speech. saying time for folks to stop rooting for failure of obama care. from your side, if you think this law is a failure and bad thing, isn't there something to be said for allowing it to fail? wouldn't that be just strategically -- i mean, if it is so bad. why not allow tight fail? >> the problem is, look, and just so i can weigh in on the earlier comments. look there is both anecdotal and empirical evidence to back up drew's package this law is not working and is, really hurting a lot of people and their pocket books. the republicans, it may be, may seem simple that we gain some sort of strategic exam pull for this. but the problem here is that republicans always disagree with this on substantive policy reasons. this is 1/6 of the american economy, president obama rearranged. took what used to be 50 state

standard. applied one federal standard to it and said let's see if this works. what we are seeing now on the anecdotes from the families struggling to pay the costs is it not working and getting the government between patients and their doctors and also, is hurting bottom lines of many hard working americans. that's what republicans were focused on. relieving that burden from, from working americans. >> can you really say that at this point? do we really, we don't have numbers, we don't know the impact of this on a lot of people at this point, kevin is? it really fair to say it is hurting people? >> we are seeing it, there is anecdotal evidence and empirical evidence. you look at the numbers. you have so many people right now moving from part time, full time work to part-time work. we're seeing the, the rate increases not only in one state, but in many states, that have now, are now implementing this law. so, we, we do have, we have a tremendous amount of evidence right now. it is, got to be very frustrating for people there, particularly reporters trying to

hold the administration accountable that they can come up with numbers they should know and should be sharing with the american public, crucial to making the law work. >> anderson, factually, here for one thing. the idea that the cost of health care coverage, the cost of health care has been rising, it has not, it is not true. we all know that. quite frankly something has to happen. >> cornell -- >> cornell -- >> the cost of health care stabilizing. which is the first time it has done that in generations. the ideal this is rolled out and failing now. you are pulling that out of thin air. we have no idea what we know. what we do know is we have people trying off to soon up. people are hungry for health care. trying to sign up for health care. again the value of it. if we, we are a country that should value the ideal if you work hard you shouldn't, shouldn't, have to go bankrupt for getting sick. that is the overarching value. republican's answer is to root

for failure. >> kevin. final point. >> all americans believe that we needed health care reform. where republicans and democrats differed was the way we went about it. the way the democrats went about it one big federal government, government-centric plan its not working. >> that we get from romney. cheap shot at the end. >> the murderers let out of a florida prison next. back in custody. their document forging operation that let them walk. ♪ ♪ dial up my number now ♪ weaving ♪ switch me on wire ♪ i want to touch you ♪ you're just made for love ♪ i need ooh la la la la la

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[s[man] no one told her,right?a. [son]hi! [mom screams] crime and punishment, the kind of prison break you never

heard of or could imagine. two convicted killers walking out of the slammer. exactly what the two did walking out of florida's franklin correctional institution with the help of forged documents. tonight they're back in custody. others helped them out there with possibly dangerous criminals who owe their freedom to a black market publishing house for walking papers. >> reporter: the take down, all captured on a cell phone camera. charles walker and joseph jenkins were found saturday night at the coconut grove hotel in panama city, florida. who is the master mind behind their escape. florida law enforcement say the two men are not cooperating with investigators or answering any questions. what we do know is the two convicted killers had forged court documents authorizing their release. the paperwork included a forged signature, the judge in the high profile casey anthony murder trial. he says if anyone had taken a close look at the documents. there was a glaring problem.

>> the big red flag to me -- was the fact that why would the state attorney be moving it? >> reporter: he said it is unheard of for a prosecutor to push for a lesser sentence, a common request from defense attorneys. florida law officials discovered this fraud isn't isolated to walker and jenkins. there are five instances where bogus documents were used. jeffrey forbes is serving a life sentence for attempting to murder a police officer. in 2011 documents were mysteriously filed to reduce his punishment, the detective who worked the case caught it in time and forbes was never released. in 2009, ironically, forged documents almost made this man's criminal forgery charges disappear. he was let out of jail for a day before the fake document scheme was caught. the judge whose signature was

forged in that case is frustrated to hear it happened again. >> in the modern world of copying electronically or otherwise, it's not that hard to lift a signature from one place and put it on another. >> reporter: the commissioner of the florida department of law enforcement tells us his investigators have discovered an underground cottage industry where people can buy forged authentic looking court documents for as much as $8,000. as for walker and jenkins, florida investigators say the forged documents were mailed to the clerk's office. they're being analyzed for dna evidence. florida investigators have seized computers and printers from the florida panhandle prison where the convicted killers were held, looking for clues where the documents originated. it is clear to investigators, walker and jenkins does not act alone in pulling off the caper. >> we have pinpointed the suspects. the arrests are -- they're not

predicted they're going to happen. >> so, you mentioned several older cases of forged documents. do we know how long this has been going on? >> well the examples in the piece there date back to 2009. the florida department of law enforcement said this summer, middle of the summer, when they realized how organized this process was and how, how, they wanted to get it on the radar. prosecutor as cross the state, fdle, state law enforcement, say they do not believe it is a widespread problem across the state. they have seen it in several isolated areas. they wanted to make state prosecutor as cross the state aware of it. to be vigilant about it. >> thank you, a lot more happening tonight. >> anderson, a special prosecutor will look at the alleged rape case in maryville, missouri, and vow to review the case quote without fear and favor. and it is believed the charges

were dropped against her accused attacker because he is related to a former state legislator. the original prosecutor says that is not true. singing the voice judge celo green pleaded not guilty to giving a woman ecstasy at a restaurant in 2012. dropping the rape charge due to insufficient evidence. green faces up to four years in prison if convicted. >> anderson, in boston a woman says she fell asleep on a bench and was sleepwalking when she fell on to the tracks. she was rescued by follow commuters. >> gosh. >> yeah, she is doing all right. horrible. >> a 360 exclusive. the first in-depth interview since lance armstrong came clean on doping. without the drugs, armstrong wasn't capable of winning a tour de france. ahead, the controversy, raging since the death of a veteran sea world trainer. is captivity, driving killer whales crazy. is it time to set them free?

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>> tonight an exclusive. cycling legend, greg lemond is speaking out since lance armstrong admitted to doping. lemond is a three time tour de france champion. i recently interviewed the

authors of the new book "wheelmen" which describes the conspiracy of doping lance armstrong spearheaded on the u.s. postal team. i talked to him about the people complicit and people hurt along the way. perhaps no one more than greg lemond. when i sat down with lemond, we had a lot to discuss. for you cycling was -- emotionally important. it wasn't just something you were good at and wanted to compete and win at. it filled a need in your life? >> well, yeah. i, i had -- i had really discovered cycling after a difficult period in my life, i had been sexually abused prior to getting into cycling. it was kind of look a blank out. but cycling literally saved my life. >> when you say it saved your life, it gave you something to focus on, gave you a way out? >> i say it. i have no clue what i would have been like had i not found, exercise really opened my mind, it actually gave me kind of

peace, but it was also very fulfilling and i would say, it saved my life. i always go, gosh, i can see somebody in my, my, say the way my brain works, coming from a period of being sexually abused you could be self destructive. people can self destruct. cycling was a positive aspect. >> you didn't want to dope? >> no. no. of course not. there is a sickness in sports. it is an ego deal. if somebody is better, more talented, the egos, don't belief that person that's much better. they belief that guy has got to be cheating. and they cheat. and so, it is rare -- i think i was very fortunate to be extremely talented and not have, never have to think about that to perform. why would you -- why would i have to think of taking something if i'm winning? >> when did you meet lance armstrong? when was the beginning?

>> at the wind tunnel in 1990. i had just won the tour. kind of was aware that -- some young riders might be nervous to meet me. i kind of jokingly said you look look more of a football player than a cyclist. my wife said he didn't take it well. >> you spoke out about lance armstrong. a lot of people criticized you for that at the time. why did you speak out? >> it wasn't arm strong. if it would have been a belgian and i knew this, it would have been, i would have had the same opinion. it was armstrong in particular. >> in fact it sounds like almost if it was somebody else you would have spoken out more, there wouldn't have been the cancer story, there wouldn't have been the live strong charity, there wouldn't have been all these things. >> but that actually was the thing that got me the most that he manipulated the cancer community. i have family members with cancer.

everybody has been affected -- by cancer -- it was the manipulation and using that as -- a way to, like, it was like teflon. he used the money. used the foundation to -- not only cover for him but also destroy people. >> the sheer number of people who had a vested interest in protecting him -- whether companies or individuals hangers-on, other riders, i mean there was a whole industry sort of geared toward protecting him? >> yeah, i never understood that. i actually. when i race i'd believed that rules, you know, a sponsor, if i am -- doping and i'm positive i would lose that sponsor, i would get kicked out of the sport. that's what i think a lot of riders believed. but that changed. it began so rampant in the '90s. but armstrong i think came in with a perfect opportunity where there was a huge drug scandal in 1998, they found 1,000 ampoules of drugs in a car. tour de france came to its

knees. when he came back, the cancer story, everything it was like, he had brought life back to the sport. but it was a false hope. >> in 2001, you said if lance is clean it is the greatest come back in the history of sports, if he wasn't it would be the greatest fraud. >> do you think what armstrong did was the greatest fraud? >> absolutely. absolutely. the greatest fraud was that -- i mean, i know his physical capability. he is a top 30 at best. at best. no matter what. if he was clean, everybody was clean. top 30 at best. he is not capable of, not cape -- capable of the top five. >> is it true he threatened you that he said that you used epo? >> he offered $300,000 to a teammate to say that i took epo. the guy refused. >> why did he go after you? >> he is a bully. a thug to me.

i amount one that wouldn't put up with it. >> when lance armstrong says, look, everybody was doing this. i was just trying to even the playing field? >> he wasn't. he couldn't race on an even playing field. he bribed the governing body. >> what should happen to him now? >> this know it a sporting infraction. this is criminal. >> you think he should go to jail? >> yeah. yeah. there is a point when there are people that are just not good. i'm sorry there are people, criminals that shouldn't be able to participate again in anything. it's like bernie madoff. should he be allowed to come in and be part of wall street managing money? no. he shouldn't. that's what armstrong. he shouldn't be allowed to be back in the sport. >> greg lemond, an honor to meet you. thank you. >> thank you. thanks. >> a shocking attack. a killer whale, drowns, mauls its trainer in front of guests. not the first time the killer whale killed somebody. did captivity drive the whale to do this.

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>> cnn is going to air the documentary "black fish" that tells of the sea world trainer that was killed by an orca.

and the documentary talks about orcas how they live when not in captivity. take a look at the clip. >> they live in these big families. and they have life spans very similar to human life spans. the females can live to about 100, maybe more. males, to about 50 or 60. but the adult offspring never leave their mother's side. each community has a completely different set of behaviors. each has a complete repertoire of vocalizations with no overlap. you can call them languages, the scientific community is reluctant to say any other animal but humans uses languages there is every indication that they use languages. >> the film raises question as but whether killer whales should be kept in captivity at all.

>> reporter: sea world orlando, 2010 in front of horrified visitors, a veteran trainer is dragged into the water, mauled and drowned by the killer whale she worked with for years. >> all of a sudden the whale latched on and took her under. >> reporter: a turning point. in its wake, occupational safety and health organization orders sea world to keep trainers out of the world with star performers. ♪ high-flying days like these are over. sea world turned down our repeated request for interviews. in an op-ed noted its staff has been interacting with killer whales daily for nearly 50 years. the tragedy of dawn's death cannot and has not been ignored. but neither should the literally millions of safe interactions with killer whales over the span of time. as the part of a publicity stunt there have been many incidents suggesting otherwise. videos of killer whales gone wild --

>> pulled under, helpless as the whale drags him below. >> reporter: killer whales, orcas are not whales but dolphins. animal activists claim they're too intelligent, too socially dependent on their families and too big for captivity t the neuroscientist claims their aggression on a basic problem they're stir crazy. >> this is not an individual, not a being that is going to be appropriately stimulated by throwing a hoop in the water or doing stupid pet tricks. >> reporter: sea world says it provide killer whales a simulating challenging environment and as for understanding them. sea world says much of what we know today came from studying captive orcas. this man studies bottle the nosed dolphins by comparing the

health of those in captivity and those in the wild we can learn of the ocean. >> there are diseases, viruses, antibiotic resistant bacteria in the dolphins which is a direct spin-off from pollution from man. >> reporter: the former trainer agrees captivity taught us about killer whales but believes now we have learned enough and should let them go. why do you think they're still in captivity? >> well there is dollars to be made. and, you know, big draw for the facilities that have them. >> it is a business. >> it is a business. yep. >> reporter: the issue of captivity is debatable, what isn't, the popularity of zoos and aquariums setting attendance record every year. sea world parks pull in $1.5 billion a year. supporters say there is a lot

more to it than just entertainment. performances educate and inspire. >> people are having less and less daily encounter with animals. so, these are kind of exhibits are teaching people about the wild, if people don't know animals, they won't care about them. >> reporter: unfortunately, opponents say, audiences are not the only ones held captive by the show. sea world wouldn't talk to you. did they give you any reason why? >> no they said they didn't want to do anything seen as promoting a film they think sensationalizes and profits from the death of one of their employees. a lot of their supporters we tacked to are shocked by this. because they say, look if sea world believes in what it is doing, itch if it thinks the documentary is flawed it should speak out. it didn't. we tried our best to tell their side of the story. despite repeat add tempts. all we got was silence.

>> tune in for "black fish" thursday, 9:00 p.m., 8:00 p.m. pacific here on cnn. peace of mind is important when you're running a successful business. so we provide it services you can rely on. with centurylink as your trusted it partner, you'll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. multi-layered security solutions keep your information safe, and secure. and responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. centurylink. your link to what's next. where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes. generating electricity that's cleaner and reliable, with fewer emissions--

it matters. ♪

we do a lot of reporting abut charities for veterans that don't live up to promises. charities raise millions but give next to nothing to the vets they clam to be helping. tonight, good news about a group that helps vets. last night i emceed an organization, a ceremony for an organization that pairs veterans, ptsd with service dogs. the cool thing is the service dogs have been raised by inmates in correctional facilities. the organization is called puppies behind bars. puppies behind bars receives exceptional marks from charitynavigator.org. three veterans graduated with their dogs. i was honored that one of the dogs was named after me.

veteran kevin brakney was recognized with his dog by his side. and sharon and her dog zoe were recognized. the dogs learned 90 commands and are taught to salute. anderson saluting right there. many kind of bravery, the service members have shown, brave to join the military, brave to serve overseas and brave to seek help when they returned home. it was a privilege to be on the same stage as well. all of us here wish them and their four-legged battle buddies well in the days ahead. that does it for us.

hi everybody, welcome to "ac360 later" a lot to talk about tonight. the debacle of a website that has been a mess since day one. the president says he is madder than anyone about that. also will there be long term damage after the government shutdown showdown. we have to begin with breaking news on the middle school shooting in nevada where a student opened fire and killed a math teacher. i spoke with his brother reggie tonight. what do you want people to me about your brother? >> just to know that he loved teaching at sparks middle