remember, you can always follow what's going on here in "the situation room" on twitter. do me a favor, tweet m me @wolfblitzer. thanks for watching. "crossfire" with guests bill richardson and bob you recallic, starts right now. tonight on "crossfire", washington's mixed bag for halloween. scary poll numbers, and a website haunted by glitches and security questions. on the left, van jones. on the right, newt gingrich. in the "crossfire." bill richardson, democrat ecformer governor of new mexico, and bob you recallic, the former rep gove you recall lick. 7 happy halloween. >> i'm van jones on the left.

in the crossfire, two former governor, bill richardson and bob urlich. on this hall oweek, the worst trick that nobody is talking about is what republican governors are doing to their own people. millions of americans get up every mork, work hard all day long, don't make enough money for insurance, and they make too much money to qualify for medicaid. that's why obama care includes federal dollars for every state to expand medicaid to help those working families. to me there is nothing more ghoulish than republican governors rejecting that money and denying their own citizens life-saving health insurance just for political points. that's my happy halloween to you, newt. >> i know this is a very difficult concept for our friends on the left to understand, but a lot of governors actually believe that being bankrupt would be bad. they believe that spending a lot of money we don't have is not good. so actually, in a lot of cases

they're making a principled decision, one, to not spend money they don't have, but two, to avoid federal regulation washington controls. it's quite clearly a philosophical difference. tonight we're very fortunate. in the crossfire we have two former governors, bill richardson and bob urlich, both tremendous governors and very smart guys. i'm glad they're here. let me start with you, bill. i mean, you've been at this a long time. doesn't it bother you that yesterday in boston finally the president admitted that for at least 3 1/2 years he's been around the country telling people that just want true, in fact everybody wasn't going to get to keep, and he finally broke down yesterday and for a minority, but for a substantial newspaper better of americans

that what he had been saying was inaccurate. >> i think what he also said and what i think is very apparent, individuals will have more options. they'll have a choice. look. there have been glitches with obama care. however, more people are getting insured. my state, and governor urlich, i have a very high regard, but there are republican governors -- i was just in hawaii yesterday. governor kasich has accepted the medicaid and talked about needing a safety net. other rep governors have accepted that. i'll bet my friend, had he been governor -- >> not so fast -- >> he would have accepted it. >> the problem is it's three years of free cash, and then it's formulaic. we get along very well, and

medicaid, as you know, and speakers have tried to deal with for many years, is driving state budget deficits, and has for the last two decades. governors are increasingly being squeezed in that regard. >> is your solution to let people go without medical assist assistance? >> of course not. >> you're saying if you were governor -- >> i would say -- i can't answer that. i honestly can't answer that, because i'm not -- i don't know the fiscal situation of the state obviously as well as when we were in. but there's lots of things to do. i have to tell you -- >> i'm frustrated. let me just tell you, i think we have a lot of people watches this show, and they say, you know what? you have republican governors, with people who are working hard who will get screwed unnecessarily. and it's not -- hold on a second. it's not just the high-minded fiscal -- this is political

points scoring in a lot of these states? >> it's washington micromanaging, which is the problem with this entire bill, and it's -- >> you know, governor, when you and i were governor, you remember pressure capes out with the prescription drug program. >> yes. >> immediately it was attacked. today, you know, i will say very few people are complaining about it. it's actually i think a good program. i think what we need to do is give this obama care, give it a chance, cool down, let it get going, let's see what's going to happen at the end of november. they've got to fix this glitch, but i do think that more people will be covered. you're hitting the uninsured. you're helping the uninsured. i think what we need to do is calm down, unified and see if it's going to work. >> wait, wait. democrats drove part d. we talked about that when i was a member, and newt was the speaker. it was the market orientation

that i would argue has made it so successful. that was the example where republican and democrats sitting down. the problem with obama care, it was one party, one control, no -- no reaching out to a lot of good bipartisan ideas that were available. the historian is right here, but let me ask you, mr. speaker, name another significant monumental public policy vote in the history of this country passed with not one vote. very few. >> very, very few. >> that's why it has no goodwill today. >> i want to argue this, but i know you have more to say. >> it's an interesting question. i think you would have to go back a long way to find something this narrowly partisan. may i ask this, bill, fairly

famous student of public policy, barack obama, said in 2009, it is not sufficient for us to simply add more people to medicare and medicaid, to increase the rolls, to increase coverage in the absent of cost controls and -- another way of putting it is we can't simply put more people into a broken system that doesn't work. in your state, new mexico, you're already 700 doctors short in a report last week. when you expand the medicaid provision, which i think your state is going to do, you add i think 175,000 more people who are going to try to go to the doctor's office when there are already 700 doctors -- isn't it part of the problem that we have narrowly focused on one piece of a really complicated health system? and there are a lot of other peoples that have to be fixed? >> i don't defend my current governor, but she accepted medica medicaid. many other republican governors in the west have done that.

in fact around the country. look, i think what this is important that's happening is, one, with obama care, more people will be insured, especially those who can't afford it. sectly costs will go in. third, you have options. again, i think the president -- we get this problem with the glitch fixed, and you will see that individuals will have more choices, that they will have an opportunity to get a plan that costs less, that has more -- that's what -- >> if you were in charge, wouldn't you think a month of this fiasco is a little more than just a glitch? >> the glitch is the high water mark here. you have young people getting sticker shock. you have the independent advisory panel out there that -- we don't use the term death panel -- wait until that kicks in? wait until the group market --

the large employers in this country start throwing substance into the exchanges. this is the high water market. most of this bill cannot be fixed. >> i want to show you something. a very famous economist who actually helped to design obama care, hearing other earns created this amazing graphics. 80% of americans will be completely unaffected by obama care. 3% will have no cuts, but 14% will be clear winners. no options for insurance in the past, and then there's about 3% that may be negatively impacted. now, wouldn't you say that a system that goes from 14% losers to 3% possible losers is at least an improvement? >> does that include folks with

other fuss-time jobs? >> the "wall street journal" today med with the headlines say that no evidence. we will argue about this right after this. >> just take a minute here. let me tell you about a trick that is not a treat. obama care has a marriage penalty built into it that could cost you as much as $11,000. we're going to visit the wedding tax, next. ♪ ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot,"

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welcome back.

in the crossfire tonight, former governors richardson and bob ehrlich. let me share the president's halloween tweet -- don't let anyone scare you out of getting affordable health insurance. now, let me tell you about a real trick rather than a treat. the great problem with ramming a 2700-page bill through congress without anyone reading it is that you get things you don't know about and don't understand. one of the many examples is what happens to two people who each make $30,000 a year. if they get married, it would cost them $11,000 in taxes and higher premiums. take a look at this. $60,000 joint income, $11,000 hit. probably by far the highest anti-marriage penalty we've ever had. i ask you, governor, as you look at this bill, aren't they going to have to reopen the bill to

fix things like that? >> no, i think what we need to do is give this bill a chance. let's make sure that everybody has options. we're going to know this very soon. the concentration on this whole bill has been on the -- look, no one is defending that, they should have gotten their act together, but you know, eventually i think that the american people are going to have more options, more choices. they can pick a lower cost of coverage. uninsured can be covered. employers will have more options, too. >> but are you suggesting that we make 2014 the year of postponing marriage for people who are right in the middle class -- >> i don't know if that's the case. i haven't looked. >> this is not our stuff. this comes directly from the kaiser foundation, who are pro-obama. >> as democrats, am i wrong? we don't have a problem with upgrading the bill, improving

the bill? >> you could have fooled us. >> you know what? under the threat of a shutdown -- >> how about today? >> governor, you and i by law have to balance budgets. we did obama care -- tried to shut down the government. they were so -- tactically they don't want to -- they wanted -- well substantively i agree. i agree with you. it was not the right place to fight. not the least of which, by the way was -- it took all this press off the front pages for two weeks, four weeks instead -- forget about this bad press. in all seriousness, in the group market, with large employers, some of whom already indicated see ya, bye, drop, pay the fine, see ya in the exchanges. these are employees who -- we're

going to see that, quote, time and time again. there's going to be various phases of this kick in, and i don't know whether -- i don't think the numbers are -- i don't think the actual numbers were particularly with regard which is more medicaid than anything else. >> listen, you are correct that there are dangers and perils when we try to make this kind of change. the problem i think we have on our side is the last system that we had was horrible. we didn't see rpgs jumping up and down every time somebody got hurt. don't forget, now, only 17% of people in the individual market in the old system could survive for two years on the same plan. you guys were nowhere to be found. now all of a sudden you're ralph nader, the biggest consumer protection party in history. >> 80% -- are please the with their coverage. were there issues? a guy like him and guy like me

could have sat down and during that period of timed a bill that would have scratched the itch for the 15%. not hard. this was a total makeover. >> here we go. the history on this -- i want you to correct the record. we've been hearing this over and over again, this history that democrats just rammed this horrible idea down. was this not a republican idea? >> the president did reach out to republicans on this. i think it was considered something tactically. the minority leader said our objective is to defeat the president. we're not going to give him anything. this is the domestic agenda achievement. when you have such a massive change, this is one of the biggest pieces of legislation since the new deal.

when you have such massive change, there are going to be problems. and -- and this -- look -- >> hey, i wasn't part of the whip organization. there were a lot of republicans that wanted to vote from this. the politics would have been good -- >> are you are you denying there was a meeting of republicans? >> here's what i'm denying. if he did not have any friends. he has less friends now than in the senate. he doesn't do that well as president. if he would have sat down and said i'm not interested in reinventing the world. how abo defensive medicine? has anybody talked about that? nothing in regard to that. >> let me drag this, this is hard for me as an historian. i want to pick it back up. i was a little surprised by your

response. it is a fact that on january 1st, if you're a couple, if you're dating and each of you earns $30,000 a year. if you marry, you lose $11,000 as of january 1. isn't that a sufficiently big direct impact on high school beings that the bill ought to be modified? we're going to find a number of thing like that. where it is a little hard for me to say let's wait a year or two. rip off a couple million americans and then we'll fix it. these things are pretty pat enltly unsustainable. >> i think that's one example. i don't have the facts that on. i do know when the business xhumt went to the white house and the president. look, we need more time to adjust on this bill. the president gave him more time. standing more time to work out the kinks. the business community said

we're not ready. >> i'm talking about why did not he give his own second more time? >> we won't defend that. i like that. go in the tank. >> talk about going in the tank and going downhill. one thing that's going downhill despite thought is your party. look at these numbers. you are now at a 22% positive, 53% negative. that's the worst view of the republican party in the history of polling. as a form he governor, do you look at these numbers and say honestly, the d.c. washington congressional republicans are destroying your party? destroying your brand? >> can i tell you the truth as you know it? the great seat of american politics, state legislatures

have created these safe, very safe seats. strong right, strong left. they are going back. we've been there actually. they're here and go get them. both right and left. so i would argue the congressional approval generally can go to zero. one, and most of these folks are coming back because of the line of state legislatures. >> well, that's very, very discouraging. hopefully when we come back we'll be able to talk about it more. i want to you stay here. we're going to do a cease fire. we'll see if there is anything we can agree on. he want you at home to weigh in on today's halloween fireback question. is obama care a trick or a treat? apply with either trick or treat using #crossfire. >> a little editorial.

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we are back with bill richardson and bob ehrlich. we are going to call a cease fire. is there anything we can agree on? >> allowing insurance policies to be written across state lines, putting governors in a room, making it work, and panning choices, expanding personal savings accounts, expanding personal freedom with regard to free marktss, generally we would agree. >> is there anything in that you can sign off on?

>> i think the fact governor ehrlich recognizes that states need to have more input. especially in the expansion of medicaid. especially in perhaps, although i support obama care. maybe governors, bipartisan governors should have had more of an earlier stake. >> governors know their states better than folks in washington. we agree on that. >> i think this is important. as we implement this expanded medicaid, we're going on rapidly discover that we need to really figure out how to run the system. not just how to pay for it. that will lead us to i think turning to the governors and maybe in the next few years, having a bill that really creates a substantial increase in the ability of governors to manage on a state by state basis how medicaid actually works you

can go to facing into and twitter and weigh in. is obama care a trick or a treat? right now 62% of you say trick. 38% of you have the right answer saying a at any rate. the debate continues online at cnn.com/crossfire. from the left i'm dan jones. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. the truth about obama care. democrats turn on the white house tonight. plus, shocking comments made by senator ted cruz' father. should the son be held accountable? and testimony from the macneill trial. the daughter believes her father kill her mother. let's go "outfront."