work on a movie, an oliver stone treatment on the life of martin luther king. tomorrow night is election 2013. will new york's next mayor change the things in the big apple. and is the tea party headed for a fall in virginia. we will have more when the polls close at 7:00. it's here all night tomorrow. it's here all night tomorrow. "ac360 later" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight a special edition of "ac360 later" on race and justice in america. how america's ongoing struggle for equality plays out and falls short on the courts and the streets and in places you would never expect. with me, charles blue, and retired police detective kevin

flanagan. >> we start with stop and frisk. last year the nypd stopped half a million people. that number is lower this year. the front runner in the mayoral election is keptable, it's impossible the see and here a stop and frisk incident until now. we warn you, the language you are going to hear is very rough. >> you again? >> i just got stopped two blocks -- >> you look suspicious. >> you keep look back at us. >> you always looking crazy. >> cause you -- listen to me. our job is to look for suspicious behavior when you

look at us like that -- >> i got stopped two blocks away. >> because you keep doing that -- when you are walking the block and looking back at us -- >> i had my hoodie. >> it was cold. you was going to smack me? you asked me -- >> you who talking to? >> why you -- come on why you touching me for? >> the documentary is available by the way through the nation magazine. when you hear that what does it make you think about stop and frisk? >> i think it -- a clear explanation of what happens in a stop and frisk. i think a lot of people are under the illusion that is it more friendly that is it, that it's not as invasive, that it doesn't have the potential to turn as violent as it often does according to some of the people who have been stopped and frisked.

i think what we run to risk of doing is divesting these people of their basic humanity and stripping them against their fourth amendment rights. you can be both -- the tactic can be both successful in some ways but unconstitutional at the same time. that's what the be said in her ruling. account work but if it's unconstitutional you cannot use it. that's what we are facing here. >> in that recording, is that an anomaly, that exchange? >> i mean, the recording itself is rare. this may be only the evidence of an actual stop that people have. but when we played it for a lot of people, people said, yeah, that's how it goes down. even a cop told us, that's exactly how it goes down. and we heard that from a lot of

people, activists and individuals and kids. it even seemed like in a certain community this audio had been circulating for a while and people didn't latch on to it. i don't know for certain but i think for some people they think it's not that extraordinary because they were so inculcated in this. a lot of people heard it and weren't that shocked and when it got more aggressive people braced a bit. but a lot of people who experienced this, they heard it and they didn't seem that shocked by it and people who never experienced this, it is shocking. >> i have to pause for a moment. we have breaking news, there are reports of shots fired at the largest shopping center in the new york area. is it in paramus, new jersey. police are there right now. police believe there is a shooter inside the mall. they do believe there is a gunman in the mall.

on the phone is eddie commonen. what have you seen and heard? >> i heard six or seven gunshots around like 9:20 p.m. i walked out of the store to see what was going on and there was just people running like crazy. i quickly closed my door and ran to the back and turned off the lights and music. >> that's where you are currently now inside the mall? >> yes. told by police officers not to move. >> so you have seen police on the scene? >> yes. >> can you say where you heard the shots emanating from? >> most likely from the macy's area of the mall. which is to the right of us. >> and you said about six shots? is that correct? >> six or seven, yeah. >> how rapid were the shots?

>> they weren't rapid at all. one and 30 seconds later, another one. it wasn't one right after the other. it was like a shotgun sound. >> did you know right away what it was, that it was shots? >> no. at first i thought a construction crew dropped something or something like that. and then when they started seeing hearing it again and people starting running and things getting louder that's when i figured out what it was. so i closed my doors to hide. >> what time does the mall close there? >> 9:30. >> these shots were about 9:20. >> how crowded was the mall at 9:20? >> i mean, not really crowded at all. it has been a slow day for the mall. there wasn't a lot of people inside the mall. >> you said you saw people running. how about how many people were running? >> about 20 total. >> and to your knowledge, have

there been any shots since the initial shots around 9:20? >> no. >> when was the last time you saw police officers on the scene? >> maybe a minute ago running by with shields and now they're screaming. >> what are they screaming? >> they are screaming to put their hands up. >> obviously, do not leave the position you're in, but if you can tell us anything you hear. you heard them yelling to someone to get their hands up? >> yes. telling someone to get your hands up. >> do you know how far away those calls are coming from? >> most likely around the corner from me. pretty close. >> are you hearing anything else? >> no. >> how long have you been in the position that you're in right now? >> since march. >> i mean, in the physical

position you are in right now. >> sorry. >> i'm interested in your employment history. >> i'm walking around your store? yeah. i see people. i see images in the mirror. they are right next to the store. >> what do you see? >> i see a shotgun. that's for sure. can't tell if it's a -- it's a police officer. it's a badge. >> so you see a police officer with a -- what appears to be a shotgun? >> yes. >> are they -- do they seem on point? do they seem relaxed or you -- they are calling for someone to have their hands up. do you see who has their hands up? >> no. now they are walking past my store. the state police. >> about how many police have you seen in the time you have

been in the store? >> around 25. i've seen local police and s.w.a.t. police and now state police. >> were there customers in the store with you? >> no. no one was here. >> what has this been like? what is going through your mind in these last 40 minutes? >> staying away from the windows as possible. i'm not going to get injured. i have my associate who is nowhere near the door area whatsoever. >> eddie -- >> hope they catch the person and eventually leave here. i do not need here to be here any longer right now. >> i can't imagine what it has been like. eddie, we're going to continue to check in with you. stay where you are.

alli kozeg is also in the mall. what have you heard and seen? >> about ten minutes before we were going to close for the night we started hearing loud bangs and someone ran past our store and screamed for us to close our door. and we didn't really know what was going on. and about ten seconds later i saw someone dressed in all black carrying a large gun walk past the store. it was schaos. >> i don't want you to give the location of your store in our conversation just for obvious reasons. what did the person look like? they were dressed all in black. do you have any description of what their face looked like? >> it is like in a horror movie,

he was wearing all black and it looked like body armor. when i saw the gun i turned and ran. i didn't get a great look at him. i was just concerned about getting out of there and getting to the back of our store. >> that's obviously incredibly smart move on your part. you said it is possible he was wearing body armor? >> that's what it looked like. >> was it just one weapon in his hand? it appears to be some sort of a rifle? >> all i saw was one large gun. i'm not familiar with a lot of guns. but the guns had just a loud bang with just some space in between. it wasn't like a fast machine gun. it was just a loud bang. bang, bang, bang. we heard eight or nine shots. >> you said eight or nine shots. how far apart were the shots? >> about 10, 15 seconds, if

that. >> how far away was the shooting from where you are? >> i mean, it sounded like it was, like, ten feet outside of our store. so -- i -- honestly, i was inside the store i am in. so i didn't see where it originated. but it sounded very close to us. >> do you have a sense -- you said you saw people running. did it appear as if this gunman was walking toward the direction that they were running away? did it look like he was walking after him or just wandering around? >> it just looked like from the nordstrom area of the mall he was just going straight down and that's how people were running and running out of that area. just kind of into any store that they could and clearing the hallways of the mall. >> we are told that the mall is on lockdown right now.

the last person we talked to said they had seen dozens of police officers from multiple jurisdictions and law enforcement agencies on the scene. have you seen that as well? have you seen a lot of police on the scene? >> well when we weren't sure what was happening? i kind of came out of the back of the store to look and saw about 10 or 15 police officers scaling the sides of the stores across from us. so it looked like they were going toward the way the people had been running and the gunman had been walking. so -- but i've seen mall security and i've seen multiple police officers from paramus and other local areas. so there's definitely a lot of police officers on the scene. i've been getting flooded with text messages and calls that there are a on tton of cops in mall. >> i can tell you where you we

just got live pictures from outside the mall at the entrance to nordstrom and there are a large number of police vehicles with their flashing lights in that area. that nordstrom area is where you saw the police walking away from? >> i'm close to that area. that's where it sounded like it was coming from. >> how are you doing? >> i'm freaking out. one of the scariest things i have ever been around. not knowing what is going on it's definitely really scare y. but i'm happy i'm safe and the girls i work with are safe. as long as we get out of here, but definitely very scary. >> stay in the location that you are in and stay down and wait for law enforcement personnel. have you heard anything since those shots? -- excuse me, about what time

were those shots? >> it started at about 9:20. >> have you heard anything since then? >> not really. i heard dogs bark before. but other than that, i haven't heard anything. the police seemed like they were being very quiet and just trying to catch whoever the person was but it's i really haven't heard anything other than that. >> ally i'm going to get off the gone you. i appreciate you talking to us. just stay in the position you are. stay calm and stay strong. >> thank you. >> scott garber is on the scene. can you explain what you are seeing all around you? >> hi, anderson, we just got here at the paramus mall about 10 minutes ago. as you can see from the camera

picture we have a large presence of many jurisdictions of police. there are 25 units here just outside the nordstrom. some passerbis by that we talke to indicated there is a gunman still loose in the mall. a passerby reported that to me. most people have made it to their cars and have moved out but it's they are saying that the mall is a lockdown. other than what you can see with the cameras. the cameraman is pan right now. at the other end of the mall there is another large presence. we heard -- this is where -- this gunman or the shooting or whatever, unconfirmed at this point happened started here at nordstrom. back to you, anderson. >> i'm sorry. i just want to clarify. where did you get the information -- where was the

shooting incident starting? >> we are hearing that nordstrom is the first incident. that's just a passerby. that's not an official word. a couple young teenagers said their brother was still inside. we have no confirmation of any injuries or no official word from any information officer at this point. >> have you seen any ambulances on the scene? >> we have seen some drive by. not at this location. it seems they have moved a the other side of the mall. but at this point, no. right where we are here at nordstrom. >> scott, i appreciate you calling in. i know you have a lot of work to do. i want to bring in paul erlanson. he is on the phone outside the mall. were you inside the mall at any point or outside this whole

time? >> i was outside and in the process of walking through the front doors, actually as a huge crowd of people were basically running towards me. at first i had no idea what was going on. i never made it inside the mall but just walking in when all this happened. >> and how long have you been outside? >> i mean, i'm still here in the parking lot now, a good distance away from the mall. i've been here since 9:00. >> we are just getting our first images outside the mall from our truck op scott garber. what we are seeing is outside of nordstrom. is that your vantage point as well? >> i'm on the west side of the mall looking more at neiman marcus and california pizza

kitchen. they have shut off the lights on the west side of the mall from what i can see. there are a large number of police cars outside as well. >> paul, i appreciate you being on the scene as well. and just stay safe. i want to bring in kevin flanagan, formerly, a new york city police detective. we will continue to look at the picture from outside the mall. in an incident like this when there have been shots fired, what is the procedure? >> it sounds like it is in gear. isolate and contain. they are trying to do lockdown. the people in the stores taking cover. the people who are in the stores in close proximity should remember most of the walls are sheetrock walls and an errant bullet could still penetrate. the police would start

systematically isolating corridors and back people out. >> with a mall of this size, this is going to take a fair amount of time. >> it sounds, though, as if this was a particular area and it -- from the reports that we're getting here on the show, that they seem to have an area defined and one of the callers mentioned hearing dogs. so i guess they have -- looking for the smell of the gun powder and checking where the damage was. your first caller talked about gunshots, not rapid fire, like boom, like shoot, shoot. >> 15 to 20 seconds in between. >> exactly. so they most likely have an area. and i'm concerned that the -- the attire the person is wearing. it sounds like this person may have gone in there looking to do battle. >> one witness, ally kocek said

he was possibly wearing a tactical vest. the weapon involved here seemed to be some sort of a rifle or long weapon. if it is a rifle, that's not the kind of thing you happen to be carrying. >> certainly not. which -- i -- as i was listening i was forming the opinion of somebody with an agenda. you know, the attire and the fact is it a rifle, to your point it's not a concealed handgun or an automatic weapon where you are coming in. it sounds like someone who was intent. there was as may or adversary they were seek by being prepared like this. >> the first young man we talked to -- we're being joined by someone who is in the mall right

now. jonathan i appreciate talking to you. don't give you exact location. what have you heard tonight? >> well so far -- i was in the front of the store talking to a couple customers and our store brook stone is adjacent to nordstrom and we heard two loud booms. we weren't sure what was happening. then we heard two more shots and saw people running. so quick reaction i told the associate to run to the back. and there were couples in the store and inside the store. i told them all to run into the back stock room. so far we've heard there is a guy in full body armor went into the nordstrom and hit four people. >> where have you heard that? >> we have a lot of -- everyone in the store is calling their relatives and friends. and they are hearing it in the news. >> we just want to be cautious in terms of only giving out information that we can verify.

obviously, eyewitness reporting there is going to be a lot of initial contact there will be contradictory information. did you at any point -- just i would stress, there is no need for you to give details on your exact location. were you able to see the alleged gunman? >> we weren't able to see but we heard the gunshots clearly. >> about how much time between the shots? >> the first three were quick. and the next were a few seconds apart. >> and then you heard more? >> after the fourt no more. >> you are aing four gunshots? >> yeah. >> and to your knowledge, did the shots begin inside the

nordstrom or outside the nordstrom? >> it sounded like it was outside the nordstrom. it sounded like super clearly. >> is the area outside the nordstrom, is that an area where there are places to sit? is that an area where there would have been people congregating? >> the nordstrom is a pretty big -- it's a department size store. there is a lot of area. this is an area for the people to stand and congregate. it is one of the entrances to the mall. >> we have a camera crew right outside at that entrance showing the outside of the nordstrom where there is a heavy police presence. have you seen a large number of police personnel inside the mall? >> a lot of s.w.a.t. teams and police. i have one of my associates keeping track of the cameras and seeing the cops walking around the mall. >> you have a security camera?

>> exactly. we can see outside the store. >> does it seem as if they are -- does it seem like the police are still searching for someone? are they standing around or seem to be actively searching? >> at first it seemed active. but now it is calmed down. if we see them it's very passive. >> how is everybody with you doing? >> you know, of course, a situation like this, there is a lot of people hiding and everyone is nervous. i'm trying to make sure everyone is calm. i took out blankets for people to use. we are calling people, 911 and relatives to stay updated on the matter. >> i want to listen to wabc for some more information. let's listen in. >> sorry.

we have not been able to make that contact. we will do that very shortly. jonathan in terms of what time this actually occur we had reports of around 9:20? >> yeah, it happened between 9:15 and 9:20. >> and the mall normally closes at 9:30. were there a lot of people in the mall? >> there is a fair amount of people in the mall. and there was a lot of people in the mall. >> have police said anything to you or have they come into your location? >> they haven't come to our location. the only people we talk to is the 911 -- and they say to stay tight until everyone is cleared. >> i'm passing this along to you at the same time as our viewers. the new jersey state police say one gunman who was firing at security cameras. they have no reports that no one

is hurt. so far no descriptions are deemed credible. this is according to the new jersey state police. so according to the state police, they have no credible information of any injuries but a gunman firing at least at security cameras. how many security cameras, to your knowledge, are there in that area? >> in around the mall? >> by the nordstrom and the area that people congregate. are they visible? >> for the most part they are pretty visible. this is a high profile mall. there is a slew of cameras all over the place. >> are they the kind that are like a half a globe in a ceiling? >> exactly. >> or is it like a rectangular camera? >> more of the globe. >> so if someone wanted to shoot at them they could figure out what the cameras were? >> exactly.

>> have police come into your location? have they talked to you and the others in the store yet? jonathan, you still there? all right. we lost jonathan. jeanie barda is the chief of staff of bergen county. do you have any information about what is going to on here at the mall? we are waiting for jean barda. and police are saying -- early reports are contradictory. we have now had tonight three people who are inside the mall saying one -- the first said they heard eight or nine shots. the next person said she believed she heard six and jonathan said four. contradictory information. emotions are running high. but the new jersey state police says no reports of any injuries

so far. >> very good news. it's interesting that the reports are coming out that he shot out cameras. that's what the police are saying. it makes you wonder between the ten minutes before closing time of the mall, takes out cameras in a particular area, he had to walk to the mall to get to that location. there is something else preconceived going on that this person is looking to deal with. >> jean barada is joining us. what is happening at the mall? what can you tell us? >> bergen county s.w.a.t. has been deployed to the scene and they are evacuating the mall. >> do you know what the threat is? . >> all we know is we believe there is one shooter in the mall. multiple shots were heard fired in the mall near the nordstrom area of the mall. >> to your knowledge are there

injuries? >> no injuries have been reported. >> there was a report from the new jersey state police of a shooter shooting security cameras. can you confirm that? >> no. >> how many shots were fired? >> multiple shots were fired. >> and do your knowledge, i assume this mall has security personnel as well. >> yes, they do. a very large mall. >> would they be armed as well? >> no, they wouldn't be. >> so the mall security is not armed. do you have any idea how many law enforcement personnel are on the scene now? >> i do not know. i'm on my way to scene now. >> i'm going to let you go. we'll check in back with you shortly. again we're looking at more pictures, more tactical units

deploying outside -- outside the mall. clearly, no word that this has in anyway over. nicole pax was just escorted out of the mall by a s.w.a.t. team. how are you doing? >> flustered but okay now. >> you are outside the mall and safe? >> right now, i'm driving off and going to my co-worker's house. >> can you tell me what you heard, what you saw? >> i was coming out of my shift and i heard maybe two or three really loud gunshots coming from the nordstrom section part of the mall. i just hear people running in one direction saying there is a shooter, there's a shooter. my first instinct was to run back to my store and tell the staff what i just heard. >> and that's what you did? >> yes, exactly. >> what happened then? >> what did you do then? >> the best option was to have

everybody lock down. there were only about six of us in the store. we went to the back room and locked everything and vibrated our phones and hoped for the news to come. >> is there a gate on the store? glass doors on the store? >> it's a bit of both. it's a glass door and caged up entranceway. >> how did the police find you to bring you out? >> i'm not sure. i know they peeked through the door and had rifles and just yelling, come out with your hands on your head. we came out with our hands on our head and they searched us and escorted us to the entrance and they told us to run and go home. >> did the police say anything about what was going on and whether the shooter was still there? >> only thing they asked us was did you see him?

i had no idea what to say. >> did anyone you were with see him? >> i was the only one that heard the gunshots. i ran back and said go to the back, there's a shooting. >> i'm trying to get a sense of the location, how active an area this was. one person said that the area outside the nordstrom inside the mall is an area that people would gather in. is it an area where there is seating and tables? >> there is lounges and restaurants right underneath of it. that's an active area of the mall. >> we were told new jersey state police have said early reports -- these are just early, early reports, but we are trying to stick to official sources as much as possible. new jersey state police saying the shooter shot out security cameras. are there many visible security cameras in that area? >> i don't know specifically in our area. but i know in my specific store,

we are able to see the entranceway into our store and we watch that panel to see if anyone was coming in or walking past. >> i'm so glad you are okay and safe and on your way to go with your co-workers. it's good to be with people who have been through the same situation. just drive safely. take some deep breaths. i'm glad you're out of there. >> thank you so much. >> on the phone i want to check in with our susan candiotti. susan. if you're there, what do you know at this hour? >> just on the road right now. so not at the location. but still the police are telling us they have set up a perimeter around the mall, all the stores on lockdown at the present time while they try to figure out where this person is. again the report i have from the state police is they are looking for at least one gunman.

but as you are saying all along these are early reports and that has they are getting conflicting reports on the description of this person, none is credible at this time. they are not giving one out but it's they have multiple local agencies that time assisting the paramus police. so far no federal agencies that we know of are involved. >> we spoke to one young woman who is still currently inside the mall. we are not giving out her exact location. she said she did get a glimpse of the shooter. she admits it was a quick glimpse. so the viewers should take this with a grain of salt. she said the shooter was dressed all in black possibly with a tactical vest or bullet proof vest and a long weapon, some sort of a rifle. but she didn't know much beyond that. let's check in with wabc.

>> all that happened was the mall security came inside and screamed everybody get out of the store. my main concern was getting the people out of the store. once he started shooting and the guy had the gun and was walking around the store it was time to go. >> describe what the shooter looked like. >> he was a tall guy with a biker helmet and leather jacket and mask. you couldn't see his face or who he was. it was a regular monday at the mall and all of a sudden i didn't believe it at first and the mall security had to scream get the "f" out. okay. it's time to go. it's not even like a code or whatever. it was just get out. it all happened really, really fast. >> tell me what you heard and saw as you were working on the? >> we were cash wrap and we heard a really loud pop and we didn't know what it was. it was pretty loud. all of a sudden people came

running from the mall entrance into the center of the mall. i called for a manager, i called for mercedes and waited for her to come up. we heard two more pops and the mall security ran in and said you guys got to get out. we evacuated everyone that we could. checked up stairs and downstairs. >> how are you feeling after seeing all that? >> it was a bit of a shock, but i really -- i tried to keep my composure. yeah, all you have to do is think about what we need to do now. we you can't worry about anything else. we just got everyone out. there were customers downstairs. we picked them up and got them outside. we are all out and safely. >> i want to get one more perspective about the security. they got to the staff who got to the customers inside store. tell me about the security and how they got you involved? >> we all have walkies to

communicate. when we heard over the walkie we were thinking like is this a drill? but we saw the mall security say get us out of the store. so i dropped my things and i grabbed everybody and ran. >> were there people crying? describe that emotion. >> first we saw people running to the door. the employees were wondering what is going on? they just told everybody to get out. they are grabbing their kids and stuff and dropping their things. we reacted the same way and just ran. >> did you see the gunman? >> i didn't see them as much as they did. you could hear the gunshot a mile away. >> you knew it was a gunshot not a fire cracker? >> at first we were like what is that sound and heard it over the walkie. we got to go. gunshots fired. we ran away. >> at that point as i'm hearing from the staff here. it was amazing the police

presence you had here immediately. so many of them were scared. they have been at the bank of america bank branch just waiting. there is the entire staff scared by what they saw here. at this point, the mall is surrounded by police. and again we don't know if the gunman or multiple gunmen are still inside the store. that it's what people are waiting to find out. >> i want to check in -- excuse me. i want to check in with shawna who is outside the mall. where were you when you heard the shots? tell me what you heard and saw? >> i was outside the mall and heard three shots being fired and all of a sudden you see people running out. >> so -- i'm sorry, how many shots did you hear? >> three. >> and how far away from you were they? >> how far away were what?

>> how f away from you were these shots? >> i was in the parking lot. >> you could hear them outside even though you were outside the mall you could hear the shots inside? >> yes. they were three shots and you see people running out and the cops were pushing everybody back. >> could you tell where the shot -- there were reports of the shots being in the nordstrom area of the mall. to your knowledge, do you know where they emanated from? >> i mean, i heard the shots. many people are saying that it was from nordstrom. many people are saying he was in nordstrom. i heard the shots and i was in the parking lot right by nordstrom. >> how are you doing? >> i'm good. i'm good. >> what is the scene like outside right now? there is a heavy police presence and the mall is in lockdown. a number of people have been outside from inside the mall.

how many law enforcement personnel are you seeing outside? >> i mean, you could see there are millions of cops outside and the squad team just came in. so there is also a helicopter on top with lights trying to look from above. it's crazy. >> shawna, i appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. i'm glad you were outside and glad you're safe. thank you. >> thank you. >> i want to bring in kevin flanagan, a former detective with the new york city police department. it's not clear the status of this alleged shooter. is it not clear if he is in custody or on the loose and being searched for by police. >> it aperiod we saw the s.w.a.t. tacking up and going in. i'm going to assume they're going to start a systematic shutdown, isolate, secure, and

evacuate and proceed on a search pattern through the mall. this is a huge place. imagine someone trying to hide in a clothing rack to have a snipers view of the officers. >> you can see the heavy police presence and police vehicles spread throughout the mall at different points and larger tactical vehicles or ambulances also on the scene though there have been no reports right now and new jersey state police putting out a report five or ten minutes ago of no reports of any injuries a it this point but that the shooter was firing at security cameras. an early report from the new york state police. in an incident like this, is command and control -- who is in control? who is head an operation like this? >> it probably has now transitioned that the new jersey

state police are on the scene, that the state police would be taking control here. they would probably have the greatest assets and ability to come with, you know, special weapons to come into the facility. >> you have a number of law enforcement agencies. we see a sheriff's department and bergen county. bergen county s.w.a.t. team and paramus police are responding on the scene. when the calls go out, you have as many people responding as possible. >> correct. they would have set up temporary headquarters with members from each of the agencies. they are all switching to the same frequency and operating with the same instruction be. you you know, you showed some of the police cars in the parking lot. i'm sure they are searching the cars that are parked. they are reviewing the video as well trying to backtrack when he

came into the mall to see if they can identify the vehicle and i tempt to identify who the person may be. >> is it a concern when you have people inside the mall and they are evacuating people out of the mall you don't want the shooter to blend in with people who are evacuating. >> that's the appointment point that was made by the woman before. they were frisked by police. and i'm sure they checked if there were garments consistent with what the early reports of what the shooter were wearing. >> the shooter is still in the mall. that is the word from county executives. they are searching the mall with canine units. that is verified by one of our eyewitnesss as well. they are searching store by store look for -- looking for the gunman. we've had one eyewitness -- one person who called in, a young woman who right now -- as of 15

minutes ago had barricaded herself along with others inside a store. we're not saying which store. she saw the shooter and believes he was dressed in black and possibly -- she got a quick glimpse of him before running to hide but believes a tactical or bullet proof vest. but again, the headline right now, the shooter according to county executives, believed to still be inside that mall. now this began at 9:20 or so. multiple eyewitnesss and witnesses who heard the shots tell us the shots began to ring out around 9:20. we've had multiple different reports. people have said they heard four shots, they heard eight to nine shots. a number of eyewitnesss have said that there were -- it was not shots in rapid -- in rapid

sequence. that there were 15 to 30 seconds in between some of the shots. we just saw some people -- obviously law enforcement personnel going around the perimeter of the mall. we've heard multiple reports of people in the mall. but there are a large number of people and we have talked to three or four of them hunkered down in various stores, they've locked down the stores the best they can and have gathered together and waiting for police to come store by store methodically. you see the size of the mall, it's quite large. >> absolutely. to that point. they have to cover all entrances and exits on all sides and

prevent anyone from exiting or going back in. this is a huge undertake here. you have uniformed police officers who are wearing their kevlar vests who will ultimately be pulled back once the emergency service and the s.w.a.t. guys get in to start doing their searches. the uniformed cops will fill in behind them to security frozen and cleared areas. >> and as we said we see the police cars spread out all throughout this parking lot and to your point they want to make sure if there is a vehicle that this shooter brought in, that they find that vehicle. >> most of the big malls now have license plate readers on their cameras. it's just a matter of how quickly they will be able to retrace the video of the shooter inside the mall if they have the access to the security room right now. >> that would be one of the top priorities for some law enforcement personnel to get access to the video cameras

which apparently the shooter was trying to eliminate. one young man who was hiding in the stores who said there are a lot of video cameras throughout the mall. there are a lot of cameras to check. that might give them a sense of where the shooter went. all of the eyewitnesss and all those who heard the shots have told us it all seemed to emanate from the area around the nordstroms. even people in the parking lot heard shots from inside the nordstrom. whether that occurred inside the store or inside the mall just outside the entrance to the nordstrom is unclear. but a number of eyewitnesss have tried to explain what that area inside the mall but in the mall entrance into the nordstrom is an area where people would congregate and there are places to sit and eat nearby. certainly a lot of areas for folks to go through and a

stressful situation for law enforcement. >> for law enforcement and for the employees in the stores. i -- you can't not comment. they have all been locked down, taking care of their employees, when they have been instructed, they are rounding up their fellow employees and customers and getting them out as quickly as possible. >> this began around 9:20 and has been going on for an hour and 30 minutes. there are a lot of -- it's a very stressful situation. sill ongoing inside that mall. that's the last word from the county executives. they believe that the shooter is still inside the mall. exact location and status unknown. we are going to take a short break and our coverage continues in a moment. she's always had a playful side.

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welcome back to our continuing coverage. i'm anderson cooper of this breaking situation in new jersey. the paramus mall. i want to bring you up to date on the situation. reports of a shooter loose in the garden state plaza 20 minutes west of the island of island. bergen county s.w.a.t. conducting a store by store sweep. store workers have told us over the last hour and a half told us that the shots rang out at 9:20

or so eastern time. a slow sequence of firing, anywhere from four to eight shots according to the eyewitnesss. the number varies from witness to witness. the one commonalty among all the eyewitnesss is that the shots were not in rapid succession. the police received reports that the gunman was shooting at security cameras, no reports of injuries or fatalities. nic robertson is on the scene. he joins us now. a chaotic scene and it's in the early minutes in an hour and a half after this began. >> anderson, it is. we are hearing from police that

the shooter may have left the building. it's not clear if that is the case. i'm looking at the police cars are leaving and others are arriving. it's a developing situation. i'm joined here by lisa and erin who were on their way into nordstrom when this incident happened. what did you see and hear? >> we heard a few shots. we weren't sure what it was at first. everybody started running and we thought it was a joke. and the security started yelling. >> you are going in and seeing people running out. what are you thinking? >> i didn't know what was going on. i thought it was a joke at first. it was like five kids and then it was a huge crowd of people. >> and you realized it was for real. >> the mall cops were screaming shots fired and telling everyone run, run, run. >> could you see anyone? >> no. i just wanted to get out. >> just trying to get out. >> so what happened?

you realize you are getting to the crowd and everyone is running out. security are telling you shots fired. what was your reaction? what did you do? >> just started running towards the door. >> when you got outside what happened? >> then all the police started showing up. it was within seconds. the emergency lights going on. and we just -- they just ushered us around the mall. >> the mall security, did they tell you anything? >> they didn't tell us anything. >> from what you could see as you were running out could you see were there people still in stores? >> some of them locked themselves inside the stores. >> as far as you know, have you seen the store workers come out, do you know? >> i haven't seen -- people are all over the place. but as far as store workers i have no idea. they were closing up like nothing was going on. >> this closes around 10:00

p.m.? >> at 9:15 we were leaving the food court and we decided to get coffee. that's what held us up or we would have been in nordstrom at the time. >> how do you feel about that right now? >> thankful she wanted coffee. >> thank you for wanting coffee. >> thank you very much indeed. boet both of you. >> thank you. the shooter may have left. it's not clear. we don't know. we understand the buildings and the stores inside the mall are being swept right now. more details we don't have. as far as we know so far there are no casualties. so far. >> this is the most important thing to stress right now is whether or not the shooter is inside the mall or left the mall. and again the frank answer is we do not know. and the police do not know

ooert. -- either. >> that's correct at the moment. it's a fluid situation. it's unclear even as i was arriving there was still many police cars moving into this area, taking up positions. it seems that the security perimeter around this area that has been put in place by mall security people is being pushed back further and further. at the moment the focus is still inside the mall, what is going on precisely is unclear at the moment. >> nic, i spoke to -- or really -- probably at the top of the 10:00 hour i spoke to a number of people who barricaded themselves into the stores where they were working. some have other employees with them and some have customers with them. we believe some of those people are still inside the mall, still inside their stores.

we're going to talk to one of them, a young woman we talked to about an hour ago, she, as i understand it, is still inside the mall. we're going to talk to her in a couple of minutes when we reestablish contact with her. bergen county officials, last we heard there was no information of whether anyone had been shot by this -- by this alleged gunman. there had been a report from the new jersey state police that the gunman had fired at security cameras which would make it harder to find out where this gunman is now or has gone. there are a number -- a large number of security cams all throughout this mall. this is well known and well regarded mall. they will be looking at as many cameras as possible to figure out where this gunman has gone.

we have reporters, nic robertson on the scene and susan candiotti heading toward the scene. it appears that the security perimeter has been pushed out as a matter of caution to figure out where this gunman is right out where this gunman is right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening, welcome to the on of the hour. we have breaking news at the top of the hour, shots fired at the garden state plaza, 25 minutes west of manhattan. bergen point, new jersey s.w.a.t. conducting a store by store sweep. mall workers, some of whom barricaded themselves inside say that the shots rang out at 9:20 p.m. a slow sequence of firing. 15 to 30 seconds between each shot. we can't give you an exact number of shots fired. no reports of