she's qualified to stand up on stage and smile. she's got experience. being ms. universal isn't about standing still or looking pretty, no, no, no, she isn't a doll or robot and we can agree come sunday she doesn't win ms. universal, she's already a master. that does it for us. hey, everyone. welcome to "ac 360 later." tonight politics, pot and politics. crack and politics. it's that kind of show tonight. we start, though, with presidential politics. newly re-elected new jersey governor chris christie winning big enough at the polls and speaking big enough in his acceptance speech last night to make him gop star of the moment. tonight how well he stands up to scrutiny. joining the conversation blogger andrew sullivan, chief international correspondent christiane amanpour, republican strategist alex castillanos and writer and humorist p.j. o'rourke. his newest book for preorder "the baby boom how it got that way and it wasn't my fault and i'll never do it again."

also contributing editor with "the weekly standard." thanks for joining us. what do you make of chris christie? >> i think he's great. i'm a republican. and his is a return to republican common sense. and art of the possible as we always say about politics. and he understands that. i mean he's maybe a little more liberal than i am, or maybe he's just governor of new jersey. but i think he's great. >> how hardened are you, alex, by sort of the breakdown of the vote that went out for chris christie? >> well, it's good to see that republican governors -- he's not the open one by the way who's very popular in his own state -- when you get out of washington the republican party is not in bad shape. chris christie has done a good job per the people of new jersey, sticking mostly to republican principles. how much of the chris christie lesson, though, translates to washington is yet to be

determined. because a lot of it is personal. and this is a unique personality who conveys kind of a strength and a really strong leadership style that -- i mean, i think the next election will be about changing washington. it's one thing everybody hates. you want to send somebody down there to bust up all the china in the washington china shop. that's a chris christie. who else could do that? it's not about message, it's about the man. >> but at some point people are going to ask, what does he stand for? what issues is he in favor of? is he going to dismantel obama care, are we going to go reinvade iraq? what is he about? i think last night's speech was i think a terrific speech as you said, p.j. he's a very likable guy. i instinctively think i could vote for this guy. he's terrific. but he said nothing about what he actually had done in new jersey apart from sandy. he said nothing about his own positions, which on some critical issues are really against the base. this is a guy in favor of gun control.

a guy that has just given medical marijuana to children. this is a guy who's really quite out there in many of these issues. and i think he's a guy that some people in the republican base are going to say, we're not going to fall for this again. we want a true believer. we want a ted cruz. we want a paul ryan or a rand paul. we don't want to be bought off by this rich establishment's guy. >> i just want to play what rand paul said kind of evasively taking a jab at the sandy recovery ads featuring the governor. >> some of these ads, people running for office put their mug all over these ads in the middle of a political campaign in new jersey 25 million was spent on ads that included somebody running for political office. you think there might be a conflict of interest there? that's a real problem. that's why when people who are trying to do good and trying to use tax payers' money wisely, they're offended to see our money spent on political ads. that's just offensive. >> that's rand paul talking to

shawn donovan who i actually went to high school with. any way -- >> in massachusetts somebody running for governor, i don't remember the name, maybe you, andrew, who was actually busted on this. he was the head of the lottery in the state. and he ran his face on the lottery ads saying i'm bringing you a great lottery. and then when he went to run for governor he was actually prosecuted for misappropriation of -- wrongly, i think. by massachusetts standards. >> i'm shocked anybody was prosecuted. >> you're asking what he stands for, chris christie. and you're right, he didn't say all the things that he was going to do. >> anything. >> but doesn't he stand for pragmatism? doesn't he stand for a perception that actually maybe there is a movement towards a pragmatic new road, particularly for the republican party sunny just wanted to know from you and from all of you guys, in fact do governor races predict what's going to happen in congress next

year, predict what's going to happen in the presidentials three years from now? >> they usually don't. but one of the things you're seeing that is washington is so dysfunctional there's a very good chance that the next president of the united states is going to be a governor. whether not somebody from the senate, i think to hillary's misfortune. it's going to be somebody who actually knows how to be an executive and get things done. [ overlapping speakers ] >> in the world of phony politics people are looking for authenticity. that's chris christie. but here's one big challenge for him. i'm a christie fan. he's the bulldog on your front lawn. you want him to bite the bad people but you're afraid to let him in the house because he might bite you. and that's going to be his challenge. a president has to demonstrate a tremendous amount of stability, too. >> this might be just the moment not to stand for anything. i mean, we really do have a country. the reason washington is so closely divided is the country is have closely divided. we've got half of the country wants expanded social services

to be paid for by other people, and half the country's other people. and like i can't even remember which half i'm in. some days i'm a medicare plan d beneficiary, and some days it's april 15th. so i myself am confused. >> the polls show that the people want not divided government and they want people to work together and to get things done. >> but they are divided. at the same time that they want not divided government they themselves are divided. that's i think reflected in washington. >> but you're right i think about a general election. but we're not talking -- he's got to get through a primary. and last night he sort of ducked a little bit of that all together. he's got to get through some pretty tough primary contests. i think what you saw in virginia, for example, is the tea party is not going away. they believe very strongly in what they believe in i think it will be very interesting to see what he says about obama care or the affordable care act. is he going to replace it? is he going to just repeal it? any deviation from the tea party orthodox will get him creamed.

>> newt gingrich said last night is it the time to maybe not bander so much to that people call extreme. >> you could make an argument for him in new hampshire, in the eastern states in california and doing well. >> even look at iowa. early primaries are going to be crowded primaries. it doesn't have to be unanimous, guys. he doesn't have to outrun the bear, he has to outrun the other guys. so i think there's a good case to be made that chris christie could weather some of the early primaries. here's what happens with candidates like christie sometimes. they have such a tremendous personality that they weather the first attack. gun control. he's for gun control. they weather the second. the third begins to wear them down. after awhile they begin to crumble a little bit. then there's a debate. and at that debate, whoever can take down the big guy, the old king is dead long live the new

king, that could be a kingmaker moment for someone. >> in his speech last night, i, i, me, my, mine, me, i. he's more of an egomaniac. less able to conceal his ego mania than most politicians. i think there's also an element of a slight bullying feature to his personality. >> really? a little bit you think? >> he's always jabbing some poor female in the chest. >> he talks about ego today. this is him on presidential speculation. let's watch. >> i've never seen it as a distraction. and i've said before, i don't see it as a burden, either. you got to have a huge ego, right? to oh, please it's such a burden for you to be speculating about me being the leader of the free world. stop i'm so burdened. i mean you know that's a pretty huge ego to be complaining about that. it's complimentary. it's flattering. and i have no problem with it. but i'm going to be really clear about this. i have a job to do.

i got re-elected to do a job last night. that's the job i'm going to do. not worried about all this other stuff. if the time comes where i change my mind on that, i decide i want to do something else, i'll tell the people of new jersey i want to do something else. >> charming egomaniac. >> that's why i like his slogan. i'll bully washington for you. >> he's the guy i would have been scared of on the school playground, tell you that. >> not sure he wears well. that's the question whether he'll wear well. >> it would be a fascinating race to watch him against hillary clinton or -- >> i want him against cruz and paul. i think that's going to be the really interesting fight. >> wwf. >> we've got to take a quick break. when we come back, probably my favorite story i find fascinating about the mayor who mistook his beer for a crack pipe. we're going to toronto next. just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked him up.

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welcome back. i'm certainly no john stewart. i'll let you write your own rob ford joke. >> yes, i have smoked crack cocaine. but no, do i? am i an addict? no. have i tried it? probably in one of my drunk stupors. >> he's a man you must love, right? >> this is what i live for. this is also how i make my

living. also every politician should have that good of an excuse. >> okay. >> kathleen sebelius in front of congress, i'm sorry about the rollout on the web site. i was drunk and smoking crack. >> thing is he's not apologizing for anything. he's saying he's doing a great job. torontans are out of -- they can't get rid of him. no mechanism to get rid of him. >> beyond the amazing spectacle of all this, he says he's not an addict. but if he's having multiple drunken stupors while he's the mayor of this town, a great city by the way, not as if he's some small town mayor. >> churchill was blind drunk for most of the second world war. >> you walk into that house of commons any day of the week,

they have a bar attached to the commons. it is not as if -- alcohol has been a lubricant for many political careers. i think toronto has a fantastic image. it had the most boring, tedious. >> i like toronto. it's a great city. >> it is a great city. >> the chamber of commerce doesn't feel that way. they are absolutely freaking out. it's giving them a really bad reputation. >> robert doolittle is a city hall reporter from the toronto star. soon-to-be released book "crazy town the rob ford story." you've actually unlike most people you have actually seen the video appearing to show rob ford smoking crack. can you describe what it actually shows? >> sure. it's about a minute and a half long. the man who is obviously rob ford is sitting in kind of a button up shirt. it's open at the top. he's sitting down in front of a white wall in the sunshine. he's jerking, bobbing around in

his chair. he's slurring. he's mumbling. his eyes are fluttering. and he smokes from what looks like a crack pipe. he also utters racist and homophobic slurs in the short clip. >> who is he making slurs against? >> the leader of the federal liberty party, he calls him an fag. >> so what's the rules that say you can't show this video? what's going on? >> right. well, it's important to note since the star and gawker reported on the video in may, all summer long we've been connecting the dots between the mayor and toronto's underworld, i guess you can say. but the video never surfaced. the people trying to sell it to us, a group of self-professed drug dealers said they wanted $100,000 for it. especially in canada that does not happen. you've never heard of that happening before. so the star didn't buy the video. so for six months the mayor has been calling us liars.

last week the chief of police said that the police service had recovered the video as part of a massive guns and gangs sweep in the north end of the city. they found the video in a deleted file on a computer. so since then it's kind of been pandemonium. the police have it now. it's in connection to a friend of the mayor's who's been charged with extortion. he was trying to get the video back from these drug dealers after the star reported on the story. and it's now part of that court case. the police chief's hands are kind of tied with whether they can release it or not because it could impact the fairness of this trial. >> can you explain to me, how popular does the mayor remain? he says he's staying in office. there's not a mechanism to remove him, correct? >> right. there's no sort of impeachment process at council. it's also important to note that toronto, unlike a city like chicago or new york, it's a different system. it's not a strong mayor system. the mayor is really just one vote out of a council of 45.

so he doesn't have veto power or anything like that. the premier could remove the mayor but she probably won't do that for political reasons i won't get into. so it's really up to him to step aside. it would be extremely against his character to do that. >> do canadians understand how resentful americans are? crack-smoking mayors are an american idea. >> they are. >> we came up with this. >> we've been totally ripped off. >> all of a sudden they want to go to canada. >> toronto underworld? >> the capital city of the united states was run by a crack smoker for a long time. and he was re-elected in a landslide. >> to the city council. >> scandal hardly ever removes anyone from politics. we have very low standards for politicians. >> i just wonder, how do you all feel having a mayor, crack-smoking, drunken stupor mayor? >> doesn't that feel really un-canadian? >> well, like you said, toronto

ace great city. so i think that we're all just kind of watching this unfold. we realized earlier this year that this would be one of the biggest stories in i guess canadian political history. it was pretty unbelievable. the mayor is talking about being in drunken stupors now. earlier this year the star reported about the mayor's drinking and the fact he was asked to leave a military ball after he showed up impaired. he called us maggots and liars and denied any drinking problem whatsoever. he's been trying to say he had a squeaky clean image this entire time. so i think the city and the country is kind of coming to grips with this. this is like six days old. >> has he been a good mayor? the job he's done, is the city still working? >> do you think the city is? >> the city is still working. yeah, like i said, he is just one vote on council. so there's kind of been this coalition of centrist counselors

that have been moving the city forward. the mayor is a populist. he ran on keep taxes low, forget arts funding, environmental funding, keep the water running, keep the roads paved. he has been very aggressive with public sector unions in the wake of the recession people liked him for that. the rest of his record is kind of spotty and his attendance is spotty at city hall. but he's popular. at least before this. we'll have to wait for a big poll to see what the city's feeling. >> the other surreal thing about this today was actually bring your child to work day at city hall. you saw the mayor giving tours to children at city hall today, correct? >> kids, don't take drugs. bring them up here and give them to me [ laughter ] >> sorry, robyn, go ahead. >> yesterday he made this very somber apology yesterday saying this will never happen again.

i've made mistakes. i want to move on. i take this seriously. i was elected to do this job. i'm going to do this job. he appeared tearful. today the media was watching him and he blew everyone a kiss. that made a lot of traction on twitter, too. it seemed a little in contrast to what he'd been saying yesterday. >> robyn, the only way to get him out is to charge him, convict him, et cetera. do you think he'll be charged? do you think the authorities will do that? >> there's a lot of wiretaps against him, correct? >> right. so after the story about the video we reported on the story about the video, the toronto police launched a huge investigation into the mayor's activities. called project brazen 2. that's been going on all summer. something like 500 pages of search warrants. there's been planes and wiretaps and following the mayor around. they didn't end up charging him. they charged people close with him but not the man himself.

so i think that's an indication that might be it. >> would you like to borrow our nsa? >> the other story here is the death of shame in western culture. freedom without rules is anarchy. there's a reason that we used to be embarrassed about these things. it kind of kept us from driving our lives into the ditch. >> i'm embarrassed about it. >> but in politics, that doesn't exist anymore. if it's not illegal it's okay. >> but alex, in the past -- let's be honest. politicians weren't squeaky clean forever. >> no. but this is crack in city hall and bringing the kids through. >> the thing was expose the honorable thing to do was to resign. not to drag your family, your constituents. >> yes. a bad example. >> never to report on this stuff. these people got away with it and you had the illusion of prop righty. >> having a couple of drinks of brandy is not crack smoking. >> he can't a bottle of whiskey

a day. >> whatever. he won a war. >> there's this arrogance that your so important that only you in office can do this even if you have repeated drunken stupors in day this day and age? the knowledge of alcoholism back this world war ii was not so great. >> and hypocrisy is not to be under valued. after all it shows that we know what we should be doing at least. this kind of behavior. >> vise leads to virtue. >> i'm more of a libertarian kind of guy. i think he's a colorful figure. i think if he does okay i'm not going to get censorious about this. >> you think people can do their job if they're having multiple drunken stupors? >> if they are dog it in the daytime yes. i understand he was smoking crack in the sunlight. >> the definition of alcoholism is -- well, thought has an

impact on your day-to-day life, on the perception that your impaired. you can't say that he can still do his -- it's like saying someone who's a crack-smoking alcoholic can be a great parent. you know what, you're impaired. >> but just think of the great campaign you could run with this. you've seen what the other guys have done sober. give me a shot. >> maybe it does tell us something about the nature of politics and how hard this toys do, which apparently is not very if you can do it while you're drunk and smoking crack. >> robyn doolittle, thanks for being on with us. when we come back, more info recreational marijuana has a new image. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. marijuana was on the ballot in several states on election day. colorado voters approved a 25% tax on recreational marijuana which the state recently legalized. voters in portland, maine passed a measure to legalize recreational amounts of pass. three municipalities passed proposals giving some legal protection to users of small amounts of marijuana. with 58% of americans now in favor of legalizing pot according to a recent gallup poll is it fair to declare it's this weed's moment. back with me best-selling author "letters to an incarcerated brother" is out this month. good to have you here. >> great to be here. >> do you think a tipping point has been reached in all this? >> i wouldn't say a tipping point. to me i'm interested in the idea of decriminalization of marijuana than legalization per se.

the idea that we already have a mass incarceration crisis in this country. we don't need to be locking up nonviolent drug offenders for carrying small amounts of marijuana. but do we want to legalize it? to me it's akin to we don't want to put people in jail for running a red light but we do want to put them in jail for duis. so it's about how much you're growing it, what type of institutions you're funding. for instance organized crime with that type of drug activity versus somebody on the street who gets stopped and frisked with five grams, ten grams. >> one mother told me with all the legalization she's having a hard time how to talk to their kids. >> it's to keep it away from kids. >> you think that makes it harder for kids to get it? >> yes. right now it's very easy. >> i have two teenage kids. >> it puts them in touch with criminal elements in the way they don't have to be. it should be regulated just like

alcohol. we should make a real effort to keep pretty kid. the only harm this drug does to anybody is to developing adolescent brain. right now it is easy to get. a really good regulatory machine for legal marijuana will keep kid safe. >> lets me bring in cnn political commentator david frump. do you think kids will be targeted? >> i agree completely with what hill harper just said about the importance of keeping people out of prison. but of course the emerging marijuana industry, and it will be an industry, will of course target children the same way that the cigarette industry did for many years and in the same way that certain segments of the alcohol industry did. marijuana is one of those things no one is going to start doing when they're 30. if you don't start when you're 17 you're not going to start. >> that's not true. >> the marijuana industry is going to know that and is going to act according will. >> i it's not true. plenty of time use marijuana

later in life to deal with a whole variety of illnesses, to deal with nausea, to deal with a whole variety of complaints that people have. so it's perfectly possible for an adult not to have smoked this in college but to go on in life and to decide it's going to help them get through a particularly vicious bout of chemo or it's going to help them with glaucoma or it's going to help them -- >> medical marijuana is different than legalization. >> if it isn't legal you can't even experiment on it, do tests on it, you can't actually find out its properties. >> there are a lot of folks who would disagree. >> in portugal, for instance, marijuana has been decriminalized. not legalized since 2001. as a result it is no longer there a major social issue. they treatise as a health issue, not a criminal issue and it's become more manageable. in england, the u.k. which has pretty strict criminal laws they are now almost never picking up people with small amounts of marijuana on them. the idea of arresting and

prosecuting them is vanishing. in uraguay in latin america they've legalized it for years and years. individuals can buy a certain amount, can grow a certain amount. but as an issue it has really gone down. >> where is the harm? >> that's what i'm saying. >> there's no social harm. >> let's not go that far. there are a lot of folks in rehab. and their gateway drug was marijuana. it does happen. [ overlapping speakers ] >> it's true. it's out there. but the other thing is prohibition generally doesn't work. >> the war on drugs. >> because you want to leave it decision up to families and that responsibility to families doesn't mean you can give your 17-year-old -- >> talking about a drug that makes teenage boys drive slow. you know? there is an up side. >> there are huge up sides. there's creativity. there's relaxation. >> the adolescent brain is a serious thing.

>> that's what i tell my kids. >> as a parent i'm going to say hey, sweetheart, have a toke. i'm not going to say that to my teenager. >> i said to my nephew who asked me about it. i said look, wait until you're out of college. then enjoy it like you enjoy wine and all sorts of other things to make your life better. >> more people die from tobacco and will continue to die from tobacco than they ever will from marijuana. >> and alcohol. >> we're talking about health and safety. >> alcohol is far worse for people than marijuana. >> david i know you want to come in. >> i wanted to suggest comparison here is not to alcohol but to the casino gambling industry. the day before yesterday the late 80s when casino gambling unless you were in atlantic city or the state of nevada you couldn't do it. now casino gambling has spread to i think the majority of the states. we take it for granted as a normal part of american society. it's had huge social effects. mostly concentrated of course on the bottom third of society. people assume that marijuana of the future is going to be a

handy craft industry. it is not. there are huge economies of scale. big profits. it is going to be a gigantic industry. it's going to look like the tobacco industry of the past. >> what's wrong with that, david? >> of course it is going to target kids. andrew except for 2 out of the 100 people who might use it for medical reasons for a short period of time, the profit, the value will be getting people to start when they're 17 and continue through life. >> why can't we regulate appeals to kids through advertising the way we do with tobacco and alcohol? why are you treating this in a separate category when it really should be in the same general category except it's much more beneficial to people than alcohol or tobacco? >> one of the reasons it's going to be difficult to regulate there will be people on television saying things like it's beneficial to people. >> it is. >> it's just not. >> it is extraordinary for creativity. relaxation. >> where is it in the hierarchy of harms? it may not be as harmful as

tobacco or heroin. but it's clearly harmful. as you said it impairs the development of the teenage brain. [ overlapping speakers ] >> let david finish. >> the question we all are going to discover in ten years or 12 when this industry takes place, it is going to be like the casinos. we do not now look back at the harm that legalized casino gambling, slot machines have done but they've done enormous harm concentrated on the bottom third of society. because we're very good at ignoring the bottom third of society. >> what harm does marijuana do to the adult brain, david? what harm? >> we are going to see people smoking marijuana heavily, becoming dependent on it, having traffic accidents. >> you still haven't said the harm. tell me the harm. >> it's a psychotropic drug. it affects the processes of the brain. >> yeah. why shouldn't that be a good thing? haven't people throughout history enjoyed a glass of wine that is a similar kind of effect on the brain? >> it's not a glass of wine. >> how many jazz musicians have

created beautiful music through this drug? >> andrew, some of the stuff that's out there now is much worse than what you and i knew about when we were younger. it's much stronger. >> we'll continue the discussion about marijuana when we come back. we'll be right back. [ horn honks ] [ passenger ] airport, please. what airline? united.

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welcome back. like any conversation involving marijuana it tends to spread out a little. we're back with the panel. p.j. o'rourke, andrew sullivan, alex castellanos, david frump, if it is legalized more adults are able to use it. by extension won't it spread down to kids? if more adults have access to it. >> right now it's spreading out from kids to adults. better for it to be controlled in a legal, regulated regimen like alcohol in which the adults

can use it responsibly and tell your kids wait until you're grown up to do this. after you have really strong laws to prevent use by teenagers. you can do that and they are doing that in colorado. they're making real progress. >> that's like adults saying to kids wait don't drink alcohol. we're drinking wine every night at dinner having beers or vodkas when we get home or don't do it yourselves. that's a hard message to tell to kids. >> that's what parents told it kids forever. >> did you listen? >> i listened. >> what do you tell your teenagers? >> no, i said oh, daddy, that picture of daddy with his hair? he was in a folk music. we did a lot of folk masses. he was in a band. >> what do you tell them about their brain chemistry? >> i lie. >> what do you tell them about their brain chemistry? >> but i do. my two teenage daughters, as far as i know they've actually listened to me maybe for the first time ever. i said we really don't know.

we are very concerned about what psychotropic drugs do to developing brain chemistry. and we do know the brain chemistry isn't developed until early 20s, perhaps. so i said, reelly like you to stay away from that. i mean i didn't go quite so far as to say if you have to sneak a beer okay. but i said i'd really like you to say away from anything psychoactive. >> when you were a teenager when your adult told you your brain was still developing and you can't make decisions the way adults candid you buy that? >> no. i can't speak for yours, but my parents were such liars about everything. sex, drugs, rock and roll. >> what makes marijuana uncool for kids is their parents smoking it. >> good plan, actually. >> it's the one thing that will kill off its allure if that's what you care about. >> i want to say something. this is somewhat of kind of an elitist discussion about this topic. because let's be very clear. if you legalize marijuana in the

way that alcohol is and you make it basically a for profit industry that companies can go for, what they will do is first of all just like malt liquor they will target the lowest income urban areas. target them and try to get them hooked. what they will continue to do is -- drive through certain communities, there are no ads for colt 45. drive through certain communities there's a billboard on every corner. so we can talk about it from we teach our kids this and we do this. but the real harm will happen to the poorest among us. >> bravo. >> the bottom one-third. >> bravo. >> it will harm. >> what harm? >> what harm is getting people addicted to a drug. >> it's not addictive. >> it is. it is addictive. >> you're advertised to and you're told what's the harm. >> it doesn't just have people sitting around being bored? >> makes you lazy. >> well, makes you lazy. that's a very puritan cal version of where we should live.

if it helps you to listen to music well, if it helps people appreciate nature. fit helps people chill out. >> getting a job in areas where it's 30, 40% unemployment, that's the question. does it help people pay the rent? does it help people feed their children in these communities where they're locking up 60 to 70% -- >> andrew it's not like this hasn't been studied massively. we know young people and older people, too, who smoke a lot of marijuana do worse in school, do worse at work. hill is exactly right. that is exactly the point of view we need to take on this. what we don't want to send more people to jail. we especially don't want to send young more minority people to jail. we want to find other paths and other methods to divert people away from drugs. but we can't give you a job or start in life but we have legal pot and slot machines, too. it's like a last scene of "it's a wonderful life" we ought to

offer people work and life not zoning out with drugs and gambling. >> it's not either or. no one is saying zone out on pot and gambling and drink. they're saying this can be part of a balanced life and that those people are capable of making their own decisions about their lives. i find the way in which we're condescending to people as if they can't make their own choices about this if they haven't made those choices and have lived with it. >> a balanced life if you can't get a job, if you live in an area where the public school system is defunct, when the fact that you have a 60 to 70% dropout rate of african-american latino young men and almost a matching incarceration rate in those same communities. so we can sit back and say let these people make choices. you're right, give them options of actually having a good school system, having opportunity to be employed rather than saying, you don't have opportunities for that stuff but you've got a great option for great weed on

the corner. >> that's a strawman. >> why is it a strawman? >> it is totally a strawman. of course we should emphasize public education. of course we should invest in jobs. of course we should do those things. that's not happening. >> there is nothing wrong with occasional pleasure. what is wrong with pleasure? >> i agree with you. there's nothing wrong with pleasure. but the best pleasure i think is getting a paycheck and feeding your family. >> i'm sorry. but that is a great thing. >> there is a middle way here. with you too, david, i think we have to legalize it. because really it has become so pervasive in our society it's a moot point. and this is ridiculous to be jailing people for it. >> completely agree. >> but i also think we have to face up to the fact that legalization or indeed decriminalization or even extensive medical marijuana, i've got bumper sticker idea. medical marijuana makes me sick.

there will be social costs. we will have to pay social costs for removing the taboos whether they're legal or social or whatever. against these drugs. >> but p.j., you and i are not going to pay those social costs. we're going to get the social benefit. >> no we're not. depending on what our kids do we might actually. >> here's the plan. the plan is states struggling with the costs of medicaid who find it impossible to raise taxes on people like you and me are going to just as they raised revenues from gambling are going to now raise some of them are looking very positively at marijuana as a source of revenue. >> colorado obviously. >> that's right. and who's going to pay those taxes? it is going to be another one of the examples of an increasingly regressive turn in local state finance. i hate to sound like a lefty on this. but this is one of those things that could make you a lefty because it is an example of everything that is wrong with our american society works in the 20th century.

>> these are regressive taxes. taxes on the poor. >> the truth, david, that marijuana is now used by the middle classes en masse. >> not often. not regularly. >> you're wrong. it is very widespread. the current president of the united states smoked more pot in his teenage years than any human being. >> that explains it. >> he was the head of the chew gang. so was the last president. it's true. just read david maris's book or michael phelps the olympic swimmer. the truth is all these things are myths about the harms of this drug. >> you're double messaging. if this thing is so positive, by all means you want to control it yet one of problems we're going to have we have marijuana advocates who are not describing it as a necessary evil or something that's difficult to regulate but like you, they are celebrating it. >> i am. >> now you're going to turn around and tell people don't do it? >> i'm saying kids should not do it. but other people should have that choice like they have the choice to drink, like they have

the choice to listen to music, have the choice to chill out, choice to binge watch netflix. any number of things could lead to sitting on the couch all day. we don't ban them or make them illegal. this thing which is is also a prompt for creative thinking, for extraordinary lives for saving people's lives should not be put in a different category than other things. >> we have to stop it there. david frumm, appreciate it. next what's your story i'll ask the panel next. [ thunder crashes ] [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk.

]nthat's why they deserve... aer anbrake dance. get 50% off new brake pads and shoes. time now for what's your story where the panel shares a news item that caught their eye. andrew, what's your story? >> i just think it's remarkable that yesterday illinois became another state to have marriage equality and almost no one noticed. a huge state. this question is over. >> i agree. >> what's your story? >> the beginning of this show you guys were talking about the politics of division. and how divided we are. i'm reminded of dr. king's quote one of my favorite he said "we are all tied together in a garment of mutual destiny, all of us, gay, straight, black, white, rich, poor." we have to figure out a way the

constitution is the best documents of compromise in history. we have to continue to work together or we'll continue to see our country crumble in a way we don't want that to happen. all of us are in this together. let's get some solutions. >> you don't hear that very much in d.c. these days. >> not at all. >> christiane? >> in that vein, i was struck by a picture of pope francis i in the weekly audience today. he's traveling around in his pope mobile. he gets out because he sees a horribly disfigured person. i mean, look at the picture. i hope we vet. he hugs the person. all these boils all over his face. >> picture on there now. >> unbelievable. goes and kisses him. it reminded me immediately of the gospels when they talk about jesus cleansing the leper. i couldn't really believe i was seeing. and pope francis is pretty amazing. he's even put out a new survey. we've been talking about all the social issues tonight. he's asking roman catholic licks

around the world on their views on marriage, homosexuality, same sex unions, all these social issues. it is an amazing moment the catholic church hasn't seen. >> servant leadership would be such a great lesson in washington. >> alex what's your story? >> on a less serious note, joe biden the always amusing vice president calls up the new mayor of boston. marty, congratulations. and it's wrong marty. mart yet consultant, not marty the mayor. however joe biden, the most loyal guy in washington. loyal to this president. and this week we read "double down" the book where they considered yanking the rug out from joe biden. his loyalty was not paid in kind. >> p.j. what's your story? >> i've been watching john kerry wander around the middle east

sort of sending mixed personal relationship messages to everybody. he's been like the bad boyfriend for the entire middle east. and no, really, we're in a committed relationship. we just have some few issues. i'm not criticizing you as a person. i'm just criticizing certain behaviors that you have. >> in saudi arabia. >> and egypt. i don't know what's going on with him. >> we've got to end it there. great to have you both as guests on the program. got to come back. >> thank you. love to. >> to all my panel thank you very much. that does it for this edition of "ac 360 later." thanks for watching. we'll see you tomorrow night.

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this is "piers morgan live." does obama care have a dangerous preexisting condition. >> this is like having a really good product in a store and the cash registers don't work and there aren't enough parking spots and nobody can get through the door and so we are working over time to get this fixed. >> is it all too little too late? frank rich tells me how the gop is turning this debacle to his election advantage. also, why do the miami dolphins quarterback say this? >> i think if you ashn