tonight on "crossfire", the president and his obama care team are on an apology tour. >> i want to go in and fix it myself, but i don't write code. >> why can some politicians admit they were wrong -- >> i take full responsibility for my own access. >> how profoundly sorry i am. >> while others can't. on the left, stephanie cutter. on the right kevin madden. in the crossfire, ruth marcus, and grover norquist, who opposes it. is apologizing shrewd politics? or just sorry? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm kevin madden on the right itches i'm stephanie cutter on the left. we have two great guests in the crossfire tonight, gull first let's talk about the president's apology. he's sorry because some americans are losing their

insurance plans, and they're costing more. he did promise if you liked your plan, you could keep it, admittedly i've used that line, too, and there's no doubt the administration oversold it, but there are some facts that could be ignored. we are talking about roughly 3% of americans who could be paying more, and their old plans aren't even worth the paper they're printed on. let's not overlook the fact a president can admit a wrong, apologize for it and actually fix it. it's not often in this town that you see that. kevin, we can all learn a lesson from that. >> i would agree. i think the lesson is don't mislead the american people. >> all right. in the crossfire tonight "the washington post" columnist ruth marcus, and antitax crusader grover norquist. kevin, you're the guest host, so why don't you ask the first question. >> so kind. isn't this an apology of the last resort?

at first he denied there was even a problem. then he goes out and attacks his critics. then when only there's no other options left does he apologize? >> i think i'm going to surprise you and maybe grover and maybe stephanie and say, yes, i think you're right. i am a supporter of obama care, but i don't think this has been well handled. i think that's putting it very mildly. the president set something he knew or should have known or probably knew it wasn't exactly accurate. everybody repeated it. we're culpable in the press, because we let him get away with it. if you look at the hhs was projecting back a few months after the law was passed that a lot of people in this individual market -- you're totally right, stephanie, it's a small piece of the market, were going to lose their coverage. they were going to have to buy new plans in the marketplaces. so the president knew that.

his first reaction was, i didn't say it, or i said it, with this caveat, and you all failed to hear it correctly -- >> that's one of the -- >> and now it's a limited apology. he's not saying he misled us. he's -- >> and we're seeing that outrage, but are we seeing enough -- >> have you been listening to white house briefings? >> this was a bill that was sold on a false premise to the american public. >> we are talking about a very small -- for most americans, they are keeping thafr current health care plan, and this is a better deal, for the american people who have to change plans, they're getting a better deal. there's no deception here. the bottom line is that it was a talkling point that got out of the control. there was a rule and regulation we passed right after obama cause was signed into law that was heavily covered by the media, and debated by

republicans. there was a heavy conversation. there was legislation to try to overturn it. if you had a health care plan before march 23rd, you could keep it. if you had a health care plan after that, it could be subject to change, but those are details i totally understand this has gotten out of control and gotten away from the president, but grover, the president's apology is more than we've gotten in the past. some presidents don't know how to apologize. i want you to watch this >> your words, no one more sickened or angry than i was when we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. you still have a sickening feeling. >> i do. i do. >> was there any consideration of apologizing to the american people? >> i mean apologizing would basically say the decision was a wrong decision, and i don't believe it was the wrong decision. >> so let's give credit where credit is due. the president apologized. that's something that other presidents weren't able to do.

even though el potion the law and are a critic of the president, can you -- >> i'm not sure i heard an apology form. the whole way this worked was to force people. he says the plans weren't any good, they were subparse. that's not his job. >> that's the law that was passed. >> but the point was is the american people should be able to decide what kind of car or insurance they want. he doesn't get to come in -- >> but he does, grover. that's the law. >> yes, it's a law, which he passed, which was a lie from what he said. >> it was upheld by the supreme court. >> two things. it was passed all with democrat votes. who cares whether the president lied in this case. he got elected saying he wouldn't raise taxes on anyone in any ways who earned less than $250,000. it took him 16 days to break the promise and did it eight times in obama care. he's not apologized for that lie, which he ran millions of

ads about. so he's not in the business of telling the truth when he needs to. at the hasn't agreed to fix this. he says, no, no, no. >> let's talk about the legislation on the table to fix it. it doesn't fix the problem. it basically allows anybody to buy a plan that's a raw deal. >> that they want. that they want. >> grover, i think you make -- >> that's the difference. you choose and you do what you want. other people want to run their lives for me. >> i think the analogy that you get to buy the car you want is exactly right. that's not precisely true. you may del grass, but the government says the cards needs to meet certain safety standards. they have to have air bags. they have to have seat belts -- >> and the fuel mileage standard. >> we don't get into a discussion about that -- >> yes, we do. >> as with other safety

standards and other standards for acreal reporting, consumer predictions, minimal coverage, so stephanie's exactly right, so these insurance plans are real insurance plans that provide people with a minimum set of benefits set by the state. >> set by the state. >> my father was a mechanic. when a car's transmission was broken, we didn't. >> i nudes i shouldn't have brought up a car analogy. >> we didn't pour a quart of oil in the engine. we few it was fundamentally broken. obama care is fundamentally broken. >> in what way? >> it's not working right now. >> well, how do you know? >> don't you think it's time we scrap the whole law, start over and start reform in the right way? >> no. no. absolutely not. >> you want to pour a quart of oil in the engine. >> but i'm not going i'm going to leave the mechanical stuff to others. here's the thing. is the with ebb site

fundamentally broken? yes. is the roll-out a debacle? yes. has the administration failed to anticipate, as they absolutely should have? 9 large number of people who are finding that they're grandfathering is not very effective? is it not included? yes, but where is the fundamentally failure there if many people will get insurance that is better insurance that costs them less with subsidies than they would have had absent obama care. >> it's not being implemented. >> you haven't seen how it -- >> you can judge it be recallity, whether the american people were to do what to do, or you can do it by the president's own words. the president said he wouldn't raise anyone's taxes unless they made at least $250,000 a year. include the ones that wasn't a tax when he put it in. don't you want to talk about health care and not taxes.

>> also, he promised he would drop people's premiums. they're going up in many cases. >> in some cases they're going up. >> they were supposed to go down for everything. >> because they take money from some and subsidize it. >> i do want to remind you that this is a law passed by congress -- >> by democrats. >> one republican in louisiana voted for it. >> unfortunately republicans politically chose not to support this, even though it was based largely on republican ideas. >> no, no, no. romney -- romney did this in massachusetts. telephones held together by the supreme court you baffles because it was attacked. >> and this was heavily debated. >> they all support it now. >> there's a lot of daylight in this law. there's nothing secret going on here. >> there's 3,000 pages, they promised they would put it up for everybody to look at -- >> we're going to go to break and continue this after the

break. kevin, over here, thinks the president should be spending more time negotiating with republicans. when we get back, i'll mind him there's actually no one to negotiate with. [ male announcer ] what if a small company became big business overnight? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪ or their new product tanked? ♪ or not? what if they embrace new technology instead? ♪ imagine a company's future with the future of trading. company profile. a research tool on thinkorswim. from td ameritrade.

welcome back. i'm kevin madden, guest hosting on the right. president obama's apology is just the latest example of him thinking he can talk his way out of a problem. as for his claim -- it's an empty promise, yet one he keeps making over and over. >> as i've said many times before, i'm willing to work with anyone on any idea who's actually willing to make this law perform better.

>> this is pure pageantry. who exactly does he intend to work with? as for the president's relations with members of congress, he doesn't have them or if he does, they're horribly strained. ruth, aren't they overtures by the president hollow? if he hasn't done this for over the last five years, what's anybody to believe he's going to do it now? >> hollow or futile i think is the question. i think you make a fair point that the president has strained relations with the hill. it's a fair point that he has not put enough effort to building those personality relationships. what's not a fair point is the notion that he had somebody to work with all along. think about it. one of the reason that it took so long to get obama care passed is that the administration dithered and dithered, and

twiddled its thumbs so that max baucus and chuck grassley could come out with a plan. time and time again in the health care area. >> he level it mostly to capitol hill democrats. >> the democrats have made overtures to republicans that other members of his party have just rebelled at. >> well, on this particular issue, ron johnson has a bill. do you think he'll call ron johnson and work with him? >> i would throw your question back at you. that's a good thing in media training. >> it's called "crossfire." >> where has the republicans' willingness to tweak, save, improve obama care. unless there's a willingness to do that, it's hard to imagine a common ground to meet on other than hi, i'm here, i surrender independents who would the president be negotiating with?

let's take a look. >> do you like green eggs and ham? i do not like them, sam i am. i do not like green eggs and ham. >> 46 votes to defund, derail or repeal obama care. hundreds of am cuss briefs. who wants to work with the preside. >> so the president mass worked with republicans? >> he has on a number of these ideas. the idea that the president will only sign bills that maim obama care worse and worse isn't actually true. he's taken republican ideas, the senate has passed it. there will be a couple morse. obama care is not a complete failure. it won the republicans in the house in 2010. it's going to win them the senate in 2014. not too many pieces of legislation have done that much good for the american people since clinton raised taxes

unilaterally. >> let's talk about the political implications of this. there are millions of people being denied coverage because of the decisions that republicans are making. >> that's because of the law, because of obama's law. >> no, because they don't care about their poor citizens. >> that's not true. >> take a look at the red states. those are states where republican governors and legislators are refusing to implement medicaid -- >> implement? expand. >> explain to people how much they steal from the american people when the govern says i'm going to spend money. >> how much do we pay because people don't have health care and they show up at the emergency room? that's $1,000 on your premium, grover. it's actually costing you. that's a tax on you. >> the costs -- it is a tremendous increase in taxes on the american people, federal and state, and many states -- >> why are some republicans implementing it then?

actually many republicans are implementing it, about half of states are not implementing it. >> yes, and 25 -- >> governor case itch. >> in the case of christie, kasich i think has a challenge. he had to do it outside the legislative arena. it's not a very popular thing. it's a massive tax and spending increase. >> that some republicans are doing. >> and some democrats are refuses to do as well, but remember the president wanted to shove it down everyone's point and not give them a chance. what you're asking is why are the republicans doing what -- and not the unconstitutional thing -- >> you're totally right, grover. the republican governors -- >> of course. it's not necessary to say that after each comment. >> republican governors do have a choice to -- it's takes what to me looks like a terrific bargain. >> federal funds for free. >> additional coverage paid for

by the federal government. >> for how long? >> for three years. >> and then? >> and continued to be paid for by the federal government, to cover the near poorest citizens. this would bump up to 133% of the positive where do you get the money from it? you take it from taxpayers. why do you leave out -- >> that's what we have taxes for. we have taxes in order to fulfill the essential role of government. we agree on sugar subsidies. you see the world of government as a little defense and the rest i know you want to put in the bathtub and strangle. i see the essential role of government as brother including protecting its own vulnerable citizens. do you want to get rid of medicaid? >> the next step in terms of reforming medicare is the ryan plan.

that's on the table. >> granting it to the states. >> do you think one of the reasons the president is apologizing is because he knows that there are worse, there's worse news to come down the road? and when will we see somebody say that six months from now, that if this isn't working, that something big has to be done rather than taking little tiny steps to put band aids on a lot of the problems? >> we're not putting a band-aid on the website problem. we are doing triage and open heart surgery. >> when will you have a sense of self-reflection and say we have a problem here? >> we have a problem with the website. i'm be you all. but there is a political problem. not necessarily a substantive problem but a political problem with the number of people who are being told their insurance is canceled and who don't yet know what their access will be. >> that's not a political problem for people getting their health insurance. >> we don't know how they will end up. most will edge up in a better

situation than they were before with inadequate insurance. >> who gets to decide whether they're in a better situation? the individual or the state? if you are buying a product that you like and plow the government says you cannot because this is better for you. >> the government has to decide just as governor romney and the massachusetts legislature, you knew where i was going there, kevin, decided in massachusetts that there was a package. >> not 330 million people. >> but size may matter for getting this rolled out but in terms of imposing a package of minimum benefits, you know that romney care and obama care are precisely the same model. >> both bad ideas. both bad ideas passed by a legislature, 80% democrat in massachusetts. >> well, actually almost universal coverage, costs are going down. romney care is actually working. stay here. we'll cease fire next. believe it or not.

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[s[man] no one told her,right?a. [son]hi! [mom screams]

we're back with ruth marcus and grover norquist. let's call a cease fire. is there anything you can agree on in and i think i'm going on regret this. who agrees first? >> you first. >> okay. i think that grover and i agree that, well, the obvious. everybody agrees on this, that

the rollout of the website has been botched. but even more, that the administration's handling of these cancellations has been botched and that the president's nonapology apology has been less than afulsome apology. >> i think we can agree that this is a lot more decide in the november of 2014 than up until then. the country will have a vote on an, and a decision on obama care. not as it was promised. not as it was misrepresented but as it actually happens and then we'll have a vote in november as to whether they like it. >> that's a fair point. i think one of the really important points is november 2014, that is a long way away. we won't be taking snap shots of the three and a half people who manage to sign up today but how they're feeling about it late next year. >> a year goes quick. >> it does go quick. i think over the next year, it

will shine a spotlight on republicans to see one, what their ideas are. because they don't have any ideas. >> that's not fair but i think we should ask republican what's they think. >> number two, whether they are committed to fixing this versus political grandstanding. >> one of the big problems for your side is the president's political capital is now almost all gone and he is going into a year next year when goegs need a lot and he does have any. that's a big problem. >> he doesn't have political capital and he has a bunch of democrats in the house and senate who have different interests than his interests. because their interest is -- >> there will be a canyon between them. >> i think we need to see how this plays out before we start predicting what senate democrats will do. >> i've got my predictions. >> and you're an expert. >> i am. having spent some time with you over the last two years, absolutely. >> senate democrats are already moving. >> not toward the president. >> thank you both. to go facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback

question. did the president's apology matter to you? right now 23% of you say yes. 77% say no. i think somebody is stacking that. the debate continues online. we want to congratulate newt gingrich on the publication of his new book, "breakout." >> tune in monday for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett up next. the president apologizes but does he have a plan for the americans who lost coverage because of obama care in a stunning admission today. plus a super typhoon stretching more than 1,000 miles, slams into the philippines. right now the sun is just coming up. there has been no communication for hours from the hardest hit areas. and did lee harvey oswald act alone when he assassinated john f. kennedy? why john kerry has