we'll settle for a rocket at cape canaveral. while cautious, he unified the country, not divide it. it's too bad for president obama, honoring kennedy seems to be a symbolic moment, rather than a chance to learn from him, maybe to change something. >> i loved it right until the last sentence. well, look -- >> don't you think he should learn? >> i think he should and is learning. even jfk, he had his bay of pigs moment. i think the senators know better than to county him out. we have senator ben cardin and senator tim cot. welcome to both of you. now, listen, i am concerned, because i have been watching all this footage from the kennedy era. it seems like there was a time when you had the parties

cooperating, working together, now it looks like a big mess, even on something as simple as getting judges approved through the senate. we're going to have to have a nuclear option to get judges approved? what is going on in the senate? >> having a nuclear option is like having obama care 2.0. the fact of the matter is over the last 15 years we've seen only two defeated. so the fact of the matter as it result to getting judges approved, it's happening form the question we really should look at is why can't we find a legislative common ground, lower taxes, p ultimate people back to work and get back to the primary question, which is americans want jobs. >> we will get to that. but, i do have this concern, this one sticking around around

the dc court, we are not hears that the three judges the president wants are terrible people, they're doing cocaines, they're bad, out in the mainstream. they just don't want to approve any judges. is that a good idea this it's just they don't want the president who has constitutional authority to appoint a judge? >> i think you make a good point. >> what is the workload of the d.c. court? it seems like the d.c. court load is not sufficient to add any judges. there's no question that it's lower than most circuits. so it's very important for us to use what we have and responsi y responsibly. one of the ways, is to make sure the workload is taken care of. >> do you agree with your colleague? >> senator scott is right, the republicans aren't voting against the president's nominees. they're not allowing us to have a vote. they're blocking the procedural ways so that we're not getting votes of not only the circuit

court for the district, we have flint of the presidentacy appointments that have not been filled for over months, and that they are used the basically the filibuster to prevent an up or down vote on judges, on cabinet-level positions, to a level that's never before we have seen in american politics. that's wrong. >> senator, let me build on that exact point, which is you have now had eight democratic senators come out for fixing obama care, at least as it relates to the people currently -- yet senator reid has not indicated he would be willing to bring those to the floor, though they'll clearly have a clear majority of the senate favorite. shouldn't that -- if we're going to go back to regular order, shouldn't we also have votes on things like obama care? >> as you know, when we passed medicare part d, a lot of us were opposed, but after it became law, we want let's make it work, work the best that it can.

the affordable care act is the law of the law. we should be taking up legislation in regular order. the question is, and i would ask my colleague, will the republicans want to consider this in regular order and not just try to repeal, but try to make it work better. >> we certainly would be happy to talk about making it more effective. the best way to do it, in my opinion is repeal it. if we could do that, get on common ground, you've even had criticism recently about the roll-out of the exchange. healthcare.gov is in and out synonymous with failure. the challenge is -- we had 400,000 south carolinians without insurance. today we've had less than 600 sign up for obama care, but 150,000 additional people losing their insurance because of obama care. so the real challenge that we see today is we need to come back to a free market solution, and make sure that people have greater access to health care. one of the ways we do that is look at alternatives to reduce

the price of health insurance. i would love to have this debate about providing american people with a free market solution to lower the prices, create greater access, and see what can happen. >> we tried that before the affordable care act. people lost their insurance, and getting less and less. the basic principles of obama care are sound. i don't think you want to repeal the fact that you have parents who keep their adult children on their policies until 26, or do you want to take away from the seniors the additional benefits we've given them in filling in coverage cap, the so-called doughnut hole? or do we want to go back where insurance companies can pup preexisting conditions or caps? the fundamentals of the exchanges are there. we have more companies that have signed up until the exchanges offer more plans at lower rates. is it working right?

no. >> $714 billion taken out of medicare to fund obama care. theres no question what we have seen is we've made medicare more fragile. number two, what we did in 2011, was pass hr-1, i believes it was, developed pools providing a state-by-state competition. which would have allowed folks to find coverage. >> wait, wait, wait. >> let me finish. >> there's a -- >> i know you guys are courteous to newblies, but one of the challenges that you see here is that if you allow for free market solutions to come to the table, things like texas, texas dealt effectively -- i know you're going to turn it, but texas dealt effectively with medical tort reform. that lowers the cost of health insurance. >> dwlopting to filibuster.

i don't want to talk about nuclear options. >> here, honestly, i am could you injure to know are you trying to fick obama care? if you're saying you want to droid obama case, i don't think you have any basis to work with. am i wrong? >> i think there's a way to come together and provide -- and creating greater access in health insurance. one of the things i'm thinking about is next year -- think about this, from -- small business owners are being incentived to drop their -- next year, according to a report that came out today, 100 million more americans may lose their health

insurance because of the small business exchanges. >> we have to wait to see the numbers. >> the numbers are coming out pretty clear. let me take that before the break. last shot. >> more and more people are losing their insurance. as far as medicare is concerned. medicare is more volume vent than before the passage. so how the -- >> first of all, we brought down some of the costs. >> i don't understand this. >> i thought you guys liked it. but -- we'll come back to all this. >> we're going to disagree on that topic. >> clearly we are bogged down, need to break out of this discussion. it looks like president obama himself has been reading newt gingrich's new book called "breakout." i want you both to respond to this comment -- >> in a lot of ways america is poised for a breakout. we have in a good position to

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welcome back. in the crossfire tonight, senators ben cardin and tim scott. today official washington xhemated the 50th anniversary of president kennedy assassination. it was a truly remarkable moment. president obama and the first lady joined the clintons, placing a wreath at the cemetery. i wasn't even alive when jfk was president, but his death and his brother's death, and dr. king's death deeply impacted my parents. when my sister and i were born,

all of america was still grieving. back then, a big chunk of the republican party was in favor of civil rights. we forget about that. today we miss the kennedys. we also miss the kennedy-era republican party. too often today's gop seems like it's on the wrong side of history. i want to go to you on this question, this question of civil rights, marriage equality, do you sometimes worry that 50 years from now we look back at the republican party and you're going to say, maybe they were on the wrong side of history? >> i don't think so. i think we're where the average per is, we're a loving, open-minded party. the fact is most of is still believe that marriage is between a man and woman. the party is big enough to include folks who disagree. by i think we have an opportunity to move america into the 22nd century.

finding a common ground, building a -- >> we had ralph reed here, a big party of your party, and he determined what a lot of that party can do. he was not as opening and welcoming. does it both you you that there are voices that sound less welcoming 1234. >> i think in america -- that's just part of the construct we are as a people. at the end of the dahl what we all wand a america to move forward together. we can do that by looking at the principles that bind you together as a country. >> so why why are republicans so concerned about every vote they make, because they're afraid they're going to get a challenge in the primary on the right? i hear what you're saying about

an open party. the politics are such today in the republican party that if you stand up for what you believe in, you're challenged, your seat mate in south carolina has challenges because he's reached across party lines to work together. is that the republican party that we have today? >> i think if you look at the republican primaries, you talk about -- in the primary. >> there are many people who disagree with the policies. >> i thought you were going to allow me to finish my sentence. i didn't realize we were going to talk over each other. every party, especially the republican party, growing because we believe in the principle of addition. we will always have people in the party that disagree with the majority position. that's okay. we're going to continue to work to make sure that america moves forward, but that's our responsibility. >> last question. >> and we're going to continue to do that. >> you just mentioned the great

lindsey graham of your state, are you supporting him? >> as you three have heard recently, i am up for reelection myself. i'm going to make sure that tim scott -- and going to allow for all the other folks on the ballot to represent themselves well. i'm going to continue to work hard. >> no endorsement tonight? >> i'm certainly going to work hard -- >> in our primaries, and we do have -- but they're not because of the fear of voting the way that we believe. we have in our primaries, who have different views, but it's not because of our fear that the -- >> wait a second. >> 39 democrats broke with the president on obama care because they were in fear of their elections. the bottom line is simply this -- for us to sit here and preisn't there's not infighting in both parties is to look at the glass as if it's a coffee cup or something. it's just ridiculous.

there's infighting everywhere. >> you talk about america moving forward. it was nice how the president used the term breakout and all of that, but i want to ask a question about the nature of washington and congress, partly against the background of president kennedy, very pro-science, very pro-technology, bowl enough to say we'll put a man on the moon at a time when we couldn't possibly have down it the day he made that announcement. i am struck, and i would like both of you to com, is the president had a very interesting explanation why you couldn't take his skills. the government regulation, government bureaucracy, the whole structure made it impossible. i thought it was very important, today cnn reported that the veterans administration has delays that are literally killing veterans. at the pentagon, the f-35

fighter jet, which is supposedly the low-cost fighter jet is seven years behind schedule, 70% overbudget and rising. we just got a report that the internal revenue service last year said $4 billion in refunds to crooks, including something like 353 checks to an address in shaping high and 560 to an address in lithuania. here's my question -- bet guest yond partisan fighting, i don't sense that the house or senate are willing for this to have the kind of hearings and find of big changes that the breakdown of 130-year-old system of bureaucracy needs. i don't quite know how we get beyond just yelling at each other and have a really profound look at why are so many different parts not working? >> we have this discussion on a regular basis, how to make

government more efficient. it's a legitimate subject. we've talked about it. we've had discussions -- last when i was on the budget committee, we look at additional ways about procurement. the challenge we have today to have that discuss -- we have to believe that government services are important. you can't espouse the destruction of these programs. when you have government shut down isn't bad. >> i think they're making a really interesting point. the book breakout, i expect it to be the typical tough partisan stuff. it is talking about more past/future. i think you make a good point. it seem your party is so against government, it doesn't want government to work. you're not in that camp, are you? >> do you remember two-thirds of the government today are run by the democrats.

and what we've seen so far are the democrats have the vote, they vote. when they don't, they ask for compromise. so the fact of the matter is, it is hard for you or anyone else to point at the republican party and say we're the obstructionist when's we're only the minority party in washington, d.c. there are ways to find common ground. the president said in of two his state of the union speeches that we need to work hard to lower corporate taxes. we have the highest corporate tax rate in all the world. 35%. he says i believe as well. we can create a million new american jobs right here on our soil if we lowered the rate from 25 to 38%. there is an opportunity for to us find common ground and move this forward if we focus not on ourselves, not on democrats or republicans but on american family who sit at kitchen tables like my mom who was a single mom, sitting there, scratching her head figuring out how many hours she has to work to figure

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we're back.

the final question for both of our guests, you know, this is a day of really remembering, and you and i were talking about it. we'll just chat a couple minutes. ben and i both remember vividly the day that kennedy was shot. and our younger colleagues are going to share with us their thoughts about what it means to them. ben, what was that day like for you? >> i was on the college campus at the university of pittsburgh. kennedy kennedy was the inspiration to our generation. he was the one who told us we could do pretty much anything we wanted to do. america's days were ahead of it. it motivated me and many others to public service and for me into elected office he was an incredible person motivating our country and then in one second, he was gone. and i think we were in shock for several days, nothing happened. we were just in front of the television set watching every minute. hard to come prehelen. what did it mean for our country? what did it mean for our dream?

it was a tough time. >> i think you captured it exactly. i had a part-time job. i was i went straight home as soon as i heard about it. and for three days i was glued to the tv. and i think walter cronkite became the dominant figure in a sense because he was so stable and so authoritative during that period. and i think for our generation, the country never recovered. prior to that we had been the country that won world war ii, the country that had eisenhower as a very distant and competent president. kennedy seemed to be, i was a support he of the republicans but nonetheless he seemed to be a new, fresh, dynamic leader and then boom. your world changed just like that. if you don't mind, what did you think? >> what i think about kennedy, one of the things that comes to mind is aspirational leadership. i think of jack kemp in my lifetime. a man who has loved people,

loved his country and wanted us to aspire to do more. one of the things we're working on is eradicating poverty in our country. >> for me it is a free market approach. there is a way for us to encourage people toward earning successful talk about education reform that gets to a place where kids that grew up in neighborhoods like i grew up in believe in the future and believe this country, this day can change the entire rest of the their lives. >> in ten seconds, what are your thoughts? >> i grew up with, i had action figures, i jamd them jfk and rfk and mlk. my parents were such big supporters of the kings. i want to thank both of you for being here. it means so much to have out a day like today. if you want to be part of this conversation, you can to go facebook or twitter. you can weigh in on our fire back question. which president will history

view more favorably. 64% of you say bill clinton. 36% say barack obama. the debate will continue online. from the left i'm van jones. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next, a day of ceremony for president obama. he speaks live this hour at a critical point in his presidency. that's "outfront." plus new details about the state senator who was stabld more than ten times by his own son. police knew there was trouble in that home. >> this is just a tragedy. a young man is dead. a family can never get that young man back. as a society, i don't know what it will take for us to pay