i'm newt gingrich on the right. >> i'm stephanie cutter on the left. two senators who voted on opposite sides. before we bring in our guests, let's go to cnn's dana bash. dana, can you put the so-called nuclear option in plain english for us? it's kind of complicated. >> >> reporter:, and what it means in practical terms is unless one of president obama's nominees is truly controversial, he or she almost surely will get confirmed, as long as democrats are in control of the senate. the reason is because what democrats did is they changed the rules so that instead of a 6 on-vote threshold for nominees to get through to overcome a filibuster, it is now a 51-vote threshold, a simple majority. the reason it's called a nuclear option is because the shoe is not always on this foot. democrats, as you well know, stephanie, are often in the minority, not just the majority. this could come back to haunt them when republicans are in charch of the senate and at the

white house. >> thanks, dana. let's take a minute to turn back the clock. in 2005, i ran the campaign against the option when i worked for senator reid. back then. the republicans were the ones threatening to go nuclear. in the end democrats accepted a deal that put some of the day's most conservative judges on the bench, but today republicans won't -- throughout history they used the filibuster in extraordinary circumstances. today republicans use it as a first resort, leaving harry reid no choice. listen to him explaining his decision. >> this is not just about republicans versus democrats. this is about doing what is right for this institution to evolve and remain responsive to the needs our country has, and we have not been doing that. >> newt, i -- i am sad and conflicted about what happened today. i'm a believer in the united states senate, i believe it's a

deliberative body, but i believe it has to work for the american people. i think the actions that senator reid took today was on behalf of the american people to make the senate function. it's not functioning. >> i think it's interesting the senate, which after all has passed a number of important things this year, wasn't functioning for the president on his terms, and this was one more step to give president obama even more power and even more control. it's interesting to me that every democrat who is up for reelection next year except one voted to give president obama more power, and i suspect that will come back to haunt them. we'll debate that in the next few minutes. >> we will. in the crossfire tonight senator bernie sanders and senator john hovan. i think these a very historic vote. i don't think it's a tactic. if you watch the president's press conference, the entire opening is a litany of legislative problems.

he doesn't get to the appointments until after he goes through layer after layer of legislative problems, which to me signals he intends to unwind the entire filibuster by the time it's done. doesn't it bother you the institution has suddenly changed toward a house-like institution and one of the great defenders are slowing things down just disappeared? >> it does. but i think the problem began a lot before today. the problem began the day after obama was elected, where the republicans clearly made an unprecedented decision that he will do everything they did in an unprecedented way to make sure he accomplishes as also as he can. reid made the point today, in terms of presidential nominations to the judiciary and to the administration, 168 times since this country was founded, half of those filibusters, that opposition took place since obama was in office. newt, when lyndon johnson was

the majority leader, he had to deal with one filibuster. harry reid has had to deal with over 400. in your openings remarks you said the senate has accomplished good things this year, that's not accurate. this country faces enormous crises, our republican friends have made the united states senate dysfunctional. on behalf of the american people, we've got to get moving. >> the first appeals court justice every filibustered was under george bush. the fact is they got to a nuclear option once before, which i thought was dangerous under bush, not obama. i understand why both sides been being partisan, but the senate is now permanently change. if your point is to have the democrats done some of the answers, absolutely. but the republicans have taken it to an entirely new level, that's simply the reality. >> senator hoeven, you were elected in 2010. >> 2010. >> over the last five years

since president obama was elected, the number of filibusters have risen dramatically. 82 of the 168 blocked are filibustered presidential nominees have occurred under this republican minority. is that why you came to the united states senate? you're not even making substantive arguments against these people, you're just blocking. >> but the reality is the change that the democrats made. this is really obama care, too, they passed it only with democrat votes. we have seen how that has worked out. to take it off obama care, we in essence have obama care 2, they breaks rules, changing it with only democrat votes. if you look at presidentacy nominations, president bush had more of his nominations held up. >> that's actually not true according to the numbers.

>> we've turned down two. where's the advise and consent if you have to go 100%? >> actually, president bush at this point had 91% of his nominees. we're in the low 70s. if you look at all nominees, it's over 99%. >> not judicial nominees, which -- >> we have confirmed over 99%, where's the advise and consent if you can't turn down somebody sometime. >> you're talking about bipartisanship. is it an act of bipartisanship to -- >> over 99% confirmed, and you're saying we're blocking? the only unilateral partisan action here was to change the rules, 100% democrat votes just like pushing through obama care. >> john, and -- john and i are friends. >> we are. >> john, chuck grassley, who is the ranking member of the

judiciary said he thinks we should not point these three new nominees, because the court is not busy enough. he thinks that obama is, quote/unquote, packing the court. does this pass the laugh test? let me finish. he is upset that barack obama is actually appointing people who are sympathetic to what -- clearly obama is the first president in history -- it is such an absurd argument that clearly what chuck grassley and the republicans are saying is, look, there are three nominees who will not be conservatives, we don't want them. >> senator, let me respond to that. when the republicans -- or the democrats did the same thing when president bush tried to put people on the d.c. circuit court. so the democrats did the exact same thing when the position was reversed. second, there isn't enough work for the current members of that court, let alone continuing to

add. third, senator grassley has a bill to remedy it. why don't you work with us on a bipartisan basis to address the underlying problem. >> john, i really think that does not pass the laugh test. just coincidentally these are obama's nominees. >> let me further push the laugh test for a second. i can't resist. as you know, i like having you here, and i think you're always very candid and come at angles i don't think of normally. senator cornyn said today something that i think sort of fits. you're talking about a fight over three d.c. court of appeals judges. maybe sooner or later you might want to get to a nuclear option. senator cornyn said he thought faced with two weeks of going home that in fact this was kind of a good things to have a new argument. what happens it that made it necessary literally the day

they're going home for the thanksgiving break to bring it up today? >> i think this has been talked about, majority leader reid has been talking about this for quite a while, and he wanted to get it done today. let me pick up on another point, which you mentioned. you said is this laying the groundwork for something even more, going to the legislative issue. let me be frank with you. that's exactly what i believe. i believe given the fact that unemployment today in this country is much, much too high, we need to raise the minimum wage, we need to create millions, what we have seen in the last three, four years, is in the senate, we have gotten over 50 votes for decent jobs bill, for some environmental bills, for bills that protect women against job discrimination, to protect the high cost of college education and make sure that college loans are affordable. we've gotten over 50 votes, but we can't pass anything. >> you mean like student loans which was bipartisan, like the

farm bill? , you mean the resource development, like immigration, which was bipartisan. >> wait a second. the student loans that were -- bill that was passed was a much worse bill than the one that could not get through. >> isn't that the point? from a part say standpoint, but from a bipartisan --, the question is why can't wet get any rep votes -- >> we're going to come back to that. i think i have found three of the best people to make my case who pass the laugh test, who oppose nuclear option. next we'll hear from barack obama, hillary clinton and harry reid, when we come back. [ female announcer ] ladies and gentlemen i'm here to say a few words about the power of baking stuff with nestle toll house morsels. you can heal a broken heart with a bundt cake. make a monday mornin' feel like a friday afternoon with some nestle toll house morsels. let's close our laptops and open our ovens.

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welcome back. in the "crossfire" tonight, senators bernie sanders and john hoeven. it's been an incredible day on capitol hill. the founding fathers realized your opinion changes when your relative power changes. filibusters helped make the u.s. senate what they called the saucer that cooled the hot coffee coming from the house. that was by design. as of today, that's changed forever despite earlier warnings from three prominent democrats i'm sure you're going to recognize. >> if they choose to change the rules and put an end to democratic debate, then the fighting and the bitterness and the gridlock will only get worse. >> the filibuster is far from a procedural gimmick. it's part of the fabric of this institution we call the senate. >> so this president has come to the majority here in the senate and basically said change the rules. do it the way i want it done.

>> you know, senator sanders, when i listened to the president today expand, and you were honest a few minutes ago and said probably you would expand the elimination of the filibuster. in moments of passion we sometimes knock down institutions that were designed deliberately. i thought back to "a man for all seasons quest and we have a brief clip that's interesting as a warning for what started today. >> so now you give the devil benefit of law? >> yes, what would you do? cut a -- >> yes, i cut down every law in england who -- >> and when the last law was down and the devil turned around on you, where would you hide? this country is provened thick with laws from coast to los, and if you cut them down and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that will blow then? >> i guess what i would ask is this -- many times in my career,

including when i was speaker, we were told you can't do x, you can't do y, don't even start down that road. if the republicans win in '14 and come back and win everything in '16, and in january of '17 says here's all this stuff, we're going to get rid of it, as we did with the contract, go through all of it in 90 days. when we did it in '95, we then collided with the senate and the senate rules. doesn't it worry you we are in the process of taking down one of the great defenses against popular will. >> it does, but again the point i would make is the key action was not taken today by the democrats. the key action today was taken by the republicans, who made a decision that in an unprecedented way they would obstruct virtually every initiative o. i notice harry reid. harry reid is an institution guy. he loves the senate. he's not happy about doing this. he is doing it, because i've --

you know, he's so frustrated, nothing is happening. the truth of the matter is our country is hurting today. people are outraged that even on a simple thing, i don't know that john has particular options to these three nominations to this court. that's just one small part of the problem. virtually sever initiative that comes up -- look, a few weeks ago we were dealing with our republican friends in the house who shut it down, because they had the bright idea that they wanted to end the funding of obama care. they went too far. you're seeing the same practice taking place in the senate. what reid has done is respond to that, trying to bring back a level of functionality in the senate. >> senator, if you would respond to this, we're working on the defense authorization bill right now. >> right. >> that's always been an opened-amendment process, but instead leader reid has a closed process. we can't even offer an amendment. how in any way, shape or form are you going to get a

bipartisan bill if you won't let them vote on an amendment. >> john, correct me if i'm wrong. jim inhofe, one of the most conservative guy -- >> tried to get some amendments. >> jim said, as i understand it, we have 25 amendments. the republicans were given 25 amendments, the democrats were given 25 amendments, inhofe said, that's good. yet we couldn't get republican support to go forward with 25 amendments. >> he came and said he'll try to get 25. so far we've gotten, what, none? one vote. one vote. >> no, no, no. my understanding is twl has been an agreement, 25-muss -- give you another issue. >> here's the bigger issue. anything that passes the senate still has to go to the house, doesn't it? >> yes. how do you get a bill through the house if you don't get a bipartisan vote -- >> let's bring it back to the issue we're talking about today. senator hoeven, if there was an

effort to find a compromise over the judicial nominees and the administration's nominees, like in 2005, when democrats accepted what we would serve pretty conservative nominees, proven to be very conservative on the bench, we accepted them. would you be part of that compromise? >> we all went into the old senate chambers. we have a long dialogue. we came one some changes. we approved a number of nominees. >> would you sell the d.c. circuit nominees that are before the senate now? >> you said work out some kind of compromise. i'm happy to do that. it can that be the kind of thing where this last arrangement, we approved a number of nominees. now they're saying unless you approve that -- >> i don't think that's the question. >> how about this? let's say what newt has predicted. that the senate flips in 2014 which i don't think will happen.

but let's say that it does. you'll be in the majority. you've never been in the majority before. would you work, being in the majority to change the rule back? >> i think one of the things you've seen from republicans today is we're not saying what we do. what we do needs to be in the best interests of the american people. we're trying to term what should be done. just like when they push obama care through with 100% democrat votes and now they're wondering what the public won't support it when there was no bipartisanship. no coming together and trying to figure out something that could work. they do the same thing now with the senate rules. if we get the chance to be in charge, we need to figure it out, what does work. >> so you're voting against it today. you voted against the nuclear option today. but you're not even sure you would continue that vote if you get into the majority. you're not sure you would restore the rules. >> you asked what we could do when we get control. i'm saying we're going to think

through that in a very measured way and come one something that works for the american people and gets good results. be a partisan unilateral option. >> we don't know. maybe the republican there's gain control of the senate. maybe they won't. you and i hope they won't. what we have learned is that in those states, recently where republicans have taken control. like wisconsin and other states. they have used the rules in the most extreme ways imaginable. going out of the way to make it hard for people to vote even. change the rules. doing gerrymandering, it has gone on since -- >> this is a very interesting argument saying somebody else in your opinion did it wrong so it is okay -- >> i can't predict. i did not say that. all i'm saying is if you look at what you guys may say, we're not going to do what they did in those states. i am saying that we are looking out there right now when republicans have had control. man, have they used their power. >> we're going to break.

we'll come back to this. stay here. next we have the final question for both of our guests. we also want at home to weigh in. do you think that dysfunction in washington is curable? tweet yes or no using the hash tag "crossfire." i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. ♪

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. we're pack with senators bernie sanders and john hovind. now it is time for a final question to each of you.

i was proud to work for a great icon of the senate, ted kennedy who was own? for his bipartisan deal making. there are lots of icons on both sides of the aisle. tell me what you think they would be thinking today if they were here in the senate dealing with the nuclear option. have those days ended? is this curable? >> i think robert byrd who was in the senate for one of the longest serving senators in the history of the senate, i think he is turning over in his grave. he was somebody who understood to break the rules means you have no rules. another democrat high didn't get to work with who i have immense respect for, mike mansfield. i've heard story after story about how when senators came in, republican or democrat, he made sure they had their, they had their ability to offer them an amendment. brought them into the mix and created a bipartisan atmosphere. >> we were told the last month,

no matter how bad the website got, the president couldn't fire secretary sebelius because he would never get a nominee through senate. doesn't today clear the way for the president to fire secretary sebelius? >> i would rather answer stephanie's question. it was a better question. i like sebelius. clearly the rollout has been terrible. to get to stephanie's question, i think not just a sad day. it has been a sad year when a country faces so many problems and we are doing virtually nothing to address those problems whrgs we see filibuster after filibuster. we are dealing with, as scientists tell us, maybe you agree with me, maybe you don't. that global warming is one great planetary crisis. >> we'll have you come back. we have the tyranny of the clock. to go facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. do you think dysfunction in washington is curable?

right now 58% of you say yes. 42% say no. >> the debate continues online at cnn.com/"crossfire." join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> good evening. "outfront," dropping the bomb. senate democrats blow up a 40-year-old law. is it hip okayisry everywhere? plus a hate crime at an american college. three white students accused of treating their black roommate like a slave. we have that story and the founder of black water's shocking benghazi claim. it is shocking and it is "outfront." let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett.