thanks very much for watching. "crossfire" begins right now. tonight on "crossfire" -- is president obama surrendering to iran? will his new deal slow its push for nuclear weapons? >> tough talk and bluster may be the easy thing to do political, but it's not the right thing for our security. >> should the u.s. ease up on sanctions? ivlts it's a historic mistake. on the left van jones. on the right, newt gingrich. in the "crossfire", treata parsi, and cliff may, who doesn't support it. is the president making peace or getting fooled? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. i'm newt gingrich on the right. in the crossfire tonight, two guests who come down on different sides. my view is very simple. this is surrender to the

iranians. it's an exact parallel to what happened with north korea when the state department team was duped, patted themselves all the way to the koreans' nuclear explosion. today both saudis and israelis, who never agree on anything, are calling this a stupid deal. apparently the seam people who told him the website would work, also told him this would work. >> first of all, this is a big difference. first of all, israel was not looking down the barrel and saying no way. number two, inspectors on the ground, and i think that's something we have not talked about enough, we are spending time on this show how we get inspectors on the ground to know what's going on. in the crossfire. treata parsi, the author of "a single roll of the dice." and cliff may.

so we're going to start with you, sir. i don't understand why people like you are not happen about this deal. first we'll seal 100 billion of their money locked under key, we get a chance to put inspectors on the ground, why is that by itself not a good deal? >> there have been inspectors on the ground for a long time. the question is what they are allowed to see. the problem is with this deal, it's meant to stop this particular regime from acquiring nuclear weapons. i think quite properly, as newt says, the negotiations went along a similar path with north korea. at the end of the day they tested a nuclear weapon, once, twice, three times and are still developing missiles. the iranians will be able to do the same thing here, despite 24 agreement or this joint action plan as it's calling, the iranian programs proceeds toward development and our leverage is

diminished. >> is it your view we should have no interim deal, no step that somehow d. president obama has put the most crippling set of sanctions on any country in modern history, and they have gone under sanctions from 200 to 19,000 centrifuges. is it your view we should go from sanctioning to total surrender with no interim deal at all? >> no, i think you're right, van. there should be an interim deal, but it should have been better than this. my fear is, and it's not just my fear, we're removing a brick or two, and the whole thing could collapse. the regime is saying the sanctions will now will collapse and it will continue as they move ahead. they're the plutonium reactor will not be dismantled. they're moving ahead toward a nuclear weapon. that's what we don't want. >> trita, let me explain with a picture why so many are cautious with this dictatorship. it goes back to 34 years ago,

the taking of the american embassy, clearly an illegal act sanctioned by the mullahs, only carried out by the mullahs, over 400 days of illegally hosting hostages, on a weekend where you would think if they had anyself discipline, they would have played meek, nice, civilized, three examples. the foreign minister says we have won the right to enrich. remember, every single u.n. security council resolution said they had to quit enriching. they now interpret the agreement as we've won the right to enrip. second, president rohuhanirouha picked by the dictatorship, says these a -- said the -- but the most amazing thing, in a regime which currently has an american pastor locked up for a year for preaching christianity, in a regime who arrested a group of

people for having received communion, a vicious regime in many ways, you have rouhani saying in a speech that the israelis are rabid dogs, the americans are our enemies. why should any american trust a dictatorship that is openly telling us with contempt that they fully plan -- >> you've just repeated the problem. you've not presented any solution. no doubt this is a regime that's not popular with the people. the question is, how do you deal with this issue? the approach of just pursuing sanctions and no diplomacy has seen the program go to 19,000 centrifuges. clearly not a successful track record. this deal, for the first time ever since 2003 freezes the nuclear program, and part of the reason why it cannot be repeated as in north korea, within the next six months, they will eliminate their stockpile by

20%. as long as they don't have 20% enriched uranium, they cannot build a bomb. >> let me ask a question. i'm curious on your answer. this regime says it is not going to build nuclear weapons. this regime says -- do you believe this regime has never had a nuclear weapons program, on you do you agree with me this regime has been lying. >> this regime has been lying, but here's the dealing -- >> have they been lying about the nuclear program? >> i believe that prior to 2003, they did things that are illegal and clear weapons dimensions. here's the issue, though. >> do you think they stopped. >> el questioning is leading to the idea that we have to trust them. that is not the case. >> i'm glad you agree. >> we have to have a mechanism to verify, that they are 23409 cheating on what they're saying they're going to do, and this will detect them so quickly we can do something about it. this is why this is a good deal. we will get unprecedented

inspections in iraq in the next six weeks. >> did not sign the additional accord which would allow -- >> that's exactly wee we have to -- >> that would have been a better deal. >> we have to take this to the second phase. in the second phase, in for one sabotages it, which unfortunately -- we will get to the second phase, and in that second phase, the iranis will have to sign. they have already indicated that will take place. in that phase, that's where the real sanctions relief will one in. >> let me ask a question. you posed a legitimate idea. if in fact after six months they do not accept intrusive inspections, only allow basic shadow inspections, would you be prepared to say this deal has fallen through and we have to follow a different strategy because they're clearly not complying? >> what the deal says is in the next six months, they're going

to negotiate what the end game is. they have decided some of the parameters of that end game, but the rest of it is up for negotiation, including what the iranians claim they already have, this radio i got to enrich. 9 reason why it has to go into these phases. after 40 years of mistrust and because of the complexity of this issue, it is completely unrealistic to expect that this entire issue could have been resolved over one weekend? geneva. they have to divide it into two phases. mindful of the regime in place, and i think it's important to remind viewers that the program is the most 12347d program, according to the iaea right now, they spend more sometime inspection it -- >> but they are denied access to important facilities, such -- >> which is why we have to get the deal so we get access to it. that's the point. you can't just re -- >> we have an agreement on this, and i guess you do, too, that the iranians do have a nuclear

weapons program, that they have continued to lie about it, and we need more intrusive inspections. >> we absolutely do, but my point is you can't start at the end of the negotiation. i think people actually don't understand the reality here. iran is close to having a nuclear bomb. yesterday was not perfect. today i think it's better. when we come back, i want to ask you, cliff, why at a mom where war and peace is once again in the balance, you want to keep undermining this president. [ male announcer ] at humana, understanding what makes you different is what makes us different. we take the time to get to know you and your unique health needs. then we help create a personalized healthcare experience that works for you. and you. and you.

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welcome back. in the "crossfire" tonight, we have trita parsi and cliff may. in a huge deal this weekend, raurn finally agreed to put pit program on hold for six months. in return, they get a slight easing on the economic sanctions. today president obama took on his critics who don't like this deal. >> where he cannot close the door on diplomacy. we cannot rule out peaceful solutions to the world's problems. we cannot commit ourselves to an endless cycle of -- and tough talk may be the easiest, but it's not the right thing for our security. >> look, we are at a critical crossroads here. i am so glad to see the president sounding sober, measured. iran will not feel safe until it gets a nuclear bomb. we're not going to feel say if they do. that's called irreconcilable differences. we are down to three moves -- we

bomb them now, we apply tougher sanctions, or we negotiate under a freeze. that's what this president is trying to do. i think it's time the president's critics stout undercutting them, and give hem a chance. i think the american people are smarter than maybe people here in d.c., if you look at these nudge bers, 56% of them are in favor. i don't understand from the people who are beating up on this president, what is your alternative to war. >> the sanctions, which you say didn't work, i believe are what has brought iran to the table to negotiate. do you not think that's the case? >> that brought them to the table, but they've been building centrifuges with the sanctions still in place. >> that's what's allowed diplomacy to operate.

i want the president to have the maximum leverage when he sits down or when his representatives sit down for negotiations. you get maximum leverage when you have maximum sanctions. what bothers me now a week away we were at the state of maximum sanctions, and more sanctioning would have allowed them to say, i want to ease up on you, i want some real concessions. >> hot on. >> you were against sanctions and we wouldn't have -- >> what more -- >> my point -- >> in that case, you can say that 19,000 centrifuges brought the iran brought the americans to the table. it's not that simple. what happened is the iranian people went to the polls, and they realized this regime could not cheat in the elections twice in a row. as a result, they decided to still go vote, even though we they got beaten up on the streets, and they forced the will onto the regime. they brought in a team who ten years ago was actually pursuing

the same path. they offered a deal in 2005 to cap the enrichment capacity at 3,000 centrifuges. we decline that, because back then the bush administration was pursuing the approach you are advocating right now. >> i understand this concept that is very popular, that rouhani is a moderate. i think he is a pragmatist and very good negotiator, but keep in mind as recently as this year, rouhani said that death to america is not just a wonderful slogan that unites iranians, but something that must be acted on. as you know, last week the supreme leader, who is rouhani's boss, made a speech to the iranian revolutionary guard corps in which he was ferociously anti-american. i want to caution. >> as a result you want to bomb them? what is your solution? just being able to repeat that rhetoric does not bring the end to the conflict. >> i want the maximum possible

leverage until we get them to stop their nuclear programs, which you say you agree with. you want them to stop the program -- >> it would be disastrous if they get a weapon, but the strategy you're advocating has brought a -- >> now you say they're -- do you really think that or do you think what the iranians want is to be dominant in the middle east. they are the leading sponsors of terrorism in the world. they said a shield for that. and they want to oppress their own people. >> nobody is arguing with you that, but you have these fantasy mythological solution. what tougher sanction do you want? a food and medicine embargo? >> no. we've never proposed that. >> without losing russia or india, what more sanctions can we do? itches there is a bill that passed on a bipartisan basis for tougher sanctions. it had pass on a bipartisan basis as well in the senate. senator menendez, a democrat

from your party -- >> hold on. >> gives away too much. >> this is important to understand. this has been a game of chicken in which both sides have escalated. the iranians, however, have one last card to play. to believe they're going to capitulate because of the sanctions, without using that last card is a fantasy. what is that last card? that last card is actually they would weaponize, and nothing in this agreement stops weaponization, does it? >> what you are arguing for is they not only go from 19 -- >> a real question -- >> that's why we have to have diplomacy. >> can you see the supreme leader giving that up? >> i can imagine that. >> the basis of the revolution in '79 was antiamericanism and dominate the middle east. >> the basis of the revolution was not to get a nuclear bomb. >> i'm fascinated. you obviously have studied this and think about it a lot. why would how maini give a speech last week that viciously

antichef israeli. describing people as rabid dogs is pretty close to the edge and that viciously anti-american. what is his internal need as a dictator in terms of balancing power in he felt he had to go and be this viciously anti-american? >> there were a couple lines in his speech i think were the key messages. he set out a couple red lines which was a message to his negotiators, while at the same time a message to the other side. and i think they were doing that to strengthen their bargaining cards. this is a very tough negotiation. part of the problem with the attitude of thinking is that we can negotiate the terms. if it was that simple, this issue would have been resolved 15 years ago. and the -- >> let me add something. you know, all the pundits, all

the politicians are on tv, brzezinski, all the actual people who understand what's going on, the senior security officials, yeah. 70 of them saying this is a good, sensible interim step. at what point do we give this president the opportunity, the president of the united states, give him the six months, if the iranians are doing terrible stuff, we can go back to the sanctions. >> he does have six months to get a better agreement. this plan, which is all it is, it's not a treaty. this doesn't go very far. over the next six months, he can get something different. if he's as tough as he just described, the supreme leader was sending a tough message saying i can be anti-american, i can continue to threaten israel, the americans will still go

along. i will support him if he's tough and he understands that the goal is not to kick the can down the road. the goal is to keep this regime from having nuclear weapons. because once he does it will be a very dangerous century. >> we want you at home to weigh in. do you think the nuclear deal with iran is progress or surrender for the u.s.? reply now by tweeting progress or surrender using the hash tag crossfire. we'll have the results aft break.

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now we're back. it's time for the final question. and you're an optimist. you have hope, et cetera. but let me ask you. if there's a final point here, and you're right. diplomacy may not work. what would you do to stop the iranians if in fact in the end they're determined to get a bm? >> you know what, when you are really have to invest. plan a is now diplomacy. and i would have to make every effort to make sure it's a suck s sis. we have to make sure this is resolved peacefully because the united states has had a war in

afghanistan, in iraq. the population is really tired of war. >> if diplomacy fails, would you accept an iranian nuclear weapon? i believe that diplomacy will succeed. i'm seeing it for both sides. if it fail, both sides are worse off. that's why you have the president leading this so strongly and effectively right now. >> final question for you. you have a president who now has three countries, russia, he's done a weapons of mass destruction deal with them, they're backing off on nukes. you've got syria, and now possibly iran. he's held together this incredible coalition. just this past week, the security council in germany, are of willing to give this president any credit at all in the role he's playing in trying to give to this world? >> i'm note going to give him credit. the assad regime is more, is

doing better than ever because of this chemical weapons deal, and we haven't gotten the chemical weapons out. russia, the reset has worked. >> no credit? >> in his interest. he has not been cooperative on almost nothing, certainly not iran. >> what about the coalition that has gotten to iran at this point, put together a world class coalition, do you give him credit for that? >> we've gotten to the point where we have an interim deal that is not good. i hope it will become a better deal over the months ahead. >> you can't say i didn't try. >> can't say you didn't try. you always try. i give you credit. >> thank you. i'm the diplomat. i want to give a big thank you to you. go to facebook, go to twitter, weigh in on our fire back question. do you think the nuclear deal with iran is progress or surrender. right now 54% say progress.

46% say sursurrender. from the left i'm van jones. >> from the right, i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of crossfire. erin burnett out front starts right now. out front next, deadly news, a deadly winter storm. what will it mean for thanksgiving? >> we're continuing to hear what police -- >> reporter: nearly a year after the mass shooting at sandy hook, the first full report on what really happened and the shooter's obsession with children. and president obama praises the agreement between iran and the united states. >> for the first time in a decade, we've halted the process on iran