this is "piers morgan live." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. and james ray had had it all, fame, fortune, even oprah winfrey, listen to what he told her back in 2006. >> i had peers in our industry telling me you will never be on oprah, you're not mainstream, i said baby, i'm the new mainstream. >> and he was, it all came crashes down in tucson, arizona, promising powerful breakthroughs, the spiritual

warriors paying $9,000 each. after two and a half hours, nine people were dead, and ray james went to prison for nearly two years, now he is a free man, more on the questions about what happened that day in the desert. and tonight for the first time since getting out of jail, james ray is here live to answer those questions. i want to begin with the story of how it went so very wrong for the king of self help. >> your greatest calling is to find your help. >> at the peak of his popularity, author james ray was a top motivator, giving speeches, writing books that reached the new york times best seller lists, even catching the attention of oprah. >> giving up the hope that the past could have been different. you released that. but true forgiveness. >> you say i don't want it to be different because there are so many gifts that came out of that. >> true forgiveness -- thank you for giving me that experience.

>> he was also attracting flocks of people willing to pay thousands of dollars to attend the self-help boot camps. part of his philosophy, push the followers to test their physical limits. but on october, 2009, near sedona, arizona, he pushed too far. >> what is the problem? >> two people not breathing, there is no pulse. >> okay, is this the result of a shooting or something? >> no, it was a sweat lodge. >> it was james ray's version of an american sweat lodge, where temperatures reached 120 degrees, killing three of his followers, and sending others to the hospital. >> everybody was throwing up everywhere, there was spitting going on, people were so confused there was screaming at one time. i know they were yelling and yelling at this man, he was so disoriented that he started to crawl into the pit with the hot rock. >> witnesses say that ray,

instead of helping people to get out, wanted the people to say inside the hot tent, even though they wanted to leave. >> he was telling people to come back in. >> ray was charged with three counts of manslaughter, for the deaths of kirby brown and liz newman, he faced up to 40 years in prison. after days in court, with nine hours of deliberation, the jury reached a verdict. >> we the jury, in the above entitled action, do find ray james, of the death of elizabeth newman. >> not guilty of manslaughter, but he was found guilty of negligent homicide. and the relatives of the victims were outraged. >> my daughter did not choose to go unconscious in a tent in an

event that mr. ray ran, and then be ignored. >> james ray spent 20 months in an arizona prison, today, he is a free man, cnn, chicago. and james ray joins me now exclusively. it is the first time he has spoken since coming out of prison after all of this dreadful tragedy. james ray, how are you? you served 20 months in prison. you have had a few months since you came out to reflect on what has happened. how are you, yourself, and what do you feel now about it all now that you served your punishment? >> well, i'm doing pretty well, piers. i mean, i'm very sorry, remorseful for what happened. i wish that i could change that, and there is really no way that anything can change that. you know, i have apologized time and time again, and it doesn't seem like that is enough.

it has not been easy for anyone, really. it has been very difficult for me and my family. and -- yet there has been a lot of learnings. i'm grateful for the learnings and the lessons that it has brought. >> that moment that you were convicted, i mean, that is the moment your life changes. obviously, you had been arrested and charged. but to actually be convicted of negligent homicide, being partly responsible for the deaths of three people. for somebody like you who was a force of being positive, that was the message you always spread, of self help, getting over bad times in your life, this is a terrible moment for you. what was going through your head when you heard guilty, negligent homicide? >> well, if i can back up a little bit. i think the most difficult thing i can ever imagine is -- investing your entire life in helping people. and then finding them getting

hurt. it is just the antithesis of anything that i had ever stood for or wanted. and so that anguish has continued every single day since that moment on october 8th. when i was sentenced, the hardest thing was that my mom -- this is going to be tough. my mom had had cancer. and so the first thing that went through my mind, i was her caretaker. and i had always been kind of the caretaker for the family. and so the first thing that went through my mind was oh, my god, what is going to happen to mom? she had to have her thyroid removed in the middle of my

trial. and obviously, that was tough. and then it went to her lungs and liver, and the doctor had -- told me it was stage 4 at the time. and so you know, that -- i can't describe how horrible i felt. my greatest fear of going into prison was that i would never see her again, that she would pass while i was gone. >> and what was the reality? how was she -- >> you know, it is interesting, piers, that the first month that i was in, i was -- the better part of the first month i was in solitary confinement. the first couple of weeks i was in what they called the hole, which -- is where death row is. and so the point being is that i was not able to be in contact with my loved ones for the

better portion of the first month. and when i finally got to call her, and i said mom, i'm okay. don't worry. it is interesting now, i mean, she is in full remission. i'm just thankful to god. because it was a complete turnaround, which tells me that she had really stressed herself into a situation that you know, i feel responsible for that, as well. >> there will be people watching. and they're going to say on any human level we can see how traumatized you are, how upset you are, obviously powerful what you just said about your mother. but she has survived the experience. you have survived the experience, three people did not survive the experience, they paid big money, $9,000 each to come and have this extraordinary experience with you. you were very famous around the world at the time. and they lost their lives. when you look back on it, what

is the single biggest regret about any aspect of the preparation, the planning, any of the things that led to these people dying? >> you know, hindsight is 20/20. and there is a lot of things that i wish were different. as i said earlier, there is no greater pain than attempting to help people and end up, they get hurt. it is horrible. and, you know, i think one of the great lessons, piers, and there has been many more than we have time for here tonight. is when is good enough good enough? i mean, that has been a tough one for me. because all of my life i have kind of been driven to bigger, better, best. and i reflect back on that particular week. and the sweat lodge was that

much -- it was kind of the sizzle on a steak. it really was not what the week was about. and that has been really misinterpreted and misunderstood. and that whole week was so powerful, and everybody was so high at the end of it. and then we have this graduation physical metaphor. and you know, if i had stopped when everybody was on the high, it would have been different. but when is good enough good enough? i remember thinking, everybody is on such a high. and i'm really not into doing the lodge. i have done plenty of lodges. but you know, the contracts were signed. and the commitments were made. and there was expectations. and some people were looking forward to it. and i felt compelled to do the lodge. and you know, maybe again, the lesson is when is good enough

good enough? >> let's take a break, let's come back and talk about what happened that day about what happened in that lodge, because it became a death trap to three people, 19 more were injured. it was a horrifying spectacle. ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] you're the boss of your life. in charge of long weekends and longer retirements. ♪ ask your financial professional how lincoln financial can help you take charge of your future. ♪

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like attracts, like, and as you lock your attention on that, then another particle is attracted, and another is attracted, and bang, you got a mercedes. or boom, you got a moped! >> and that is how it works. this is science. what are you creating? what are you creating? >> that was james ray in his prime in 2008, months later a sweat lodge ceremony he led for what he called spiritual warriors, left three people dead. ray, with the oprah seal of approval, spent 20 months behind bars, and tonight for the first

time he is telling his story, live and exclusively. so james, your career was rocketing, you appeared on oprah, you made $10 million in one year alone from all the stuff that you were doing. life must have seemed as it looked from that clip, you were at the top of your game. super confident. did that super confidence lead to you, do you think, getting greedy, cutting corners, having too many people at this location. because the sweat lodge allegation, is that normally you would have between 15 and 20 people and you had 55 to 60 people? >> we had had 75, 73 to 75 the year prior. the lodge that was built was built specifically for a large group of people. and it was built by a native american that the facility -- at the facility, we had paid. we had hired them to build it. >> so what happened -- how could

within an hour of this thing starting, a two and a half hour show that you put on in the sweat lodge, how within an hour could 18 people be pretty badly injured? and three people lose their lives? how does that happen? such an environment? >> i don't know. piers, i really don't know. and you know, there is a lot of different ideas. i mean, there was a lot of medical evidence to say that there were toxins involved. and then the state felt that it was too hot. and obviously, the jury ultimately thought it was too hot. and we'll never really know because the lodge was destroyed within 48 hours of the accident. so there was nothing to follow up on. >> what was the specific evidence of the sweat lodge, part of the process? >> well, you know, i'm glad you asked that question, because a lot of people believe that the

lodge is a native american tradition. it is a native american tradition, but there were a lot of other cultures that used the sweat lodges, as well. many other cultures, it really depends on the culture that you go to. for me, the physical metaphor, it is difficult. so it was a physical metaphor to be able to say after all of this work i've done, during the week, to embrace and to heal and to deal with the issues that have haunted me. this, i'm going to do and metaphorically, rather, i'm going to go in, to have this physical metaphor that is going to be difficult. which i warned them it would be -- >> i mean, physically, it is punishing. you go inside, they're crammed in like sardines. and they're basically exposed to ever greater amounts of heat. i mean, that is how this works, a sweat lodge, they sweat, and

they're very hot. so what kind of barriers or controls did you have in practice, given that it was clearly potentially dangerous? >> well, obviously, not good enough. and you know, again, as the captain of the ship i have to be responsible for that. and -- >> was there a heat limit that you used to have for the sweat lodge? >> well, you really don't know how hot. no one knows how hot it was in there. because there is no thermostat in there or anything -- >> to people watching, why wasn't there? if you have 60 human beings crammed into this vast sauna, which is basically what it is. you know, a sauna has to be regulated, why was there no regulation? >> there is no regulation for a lodge, i mean, again, in hindsight, there are many thing that is could have been done differently. however, i've been in numerous lodges and no lodge has a thermostat that i have been in.

and people were free to come and go. and the records showed that 16 people did leave when it got too hot for them. >> others have claimed that you sat by the tent door which remained sealed as chaos continued, people were collapsing, vomiting, having trouble breathing, hallucinating, i mean, foaming at the mouth. i mean, it seems pretty extraordinary that the first thing you wouldn't do would be let's get everybody out of here. again, why didn't you do that? >> again, i didn't know, know did anyone know that anyone was in a life or death situation. i have been very physical all of my life. and what i noticed was a lot of people having challenges much like you would see at a marathon or any other physical activity. had i known, i wish i would have known. >> you didn't see anybody suffering from any of those things? nobody collapsing, nobody

vomiting, hallucinating or foaming? >> i didn't see any of those things, those things were happening outside the lodge. again, as i said, my remorse, there are many physical things i would have done differently. of all the metaphorical things i did, the rope walks, the bridges, were extremely powerful. for whatever reason, the lodge was the only one that i participated in. all the rest of them. and in retrospect, i'm not sure why. >> but who was in charge that day in the lodge, who was running the show? you? >> well, i was in the lodge running the lodge, which the prayers and affirmations, those type of things -- >> but were you in charge? >> i was not in charge to that degree. >> so you had it in your power if you were genuinely concerned about what was happening, to just open the flaps and everybody out. >> we did, every 15 minutes we

opened up the flaps and people were free to leave. come and go. and there were people outside standing around and again, in retrospect, i probably should not have participated. because i was dealing with the same issues that many of the people inside were dealing with. >> there was an allegation, a woman said that you were asked if she could open up the back of the sweat lodge to get two victims out. you told her it would be sac religious to do that. >> i don't recall that. >> do you recall anybody saying we need to get out of here? >> i do recall that. >> were they panicking? >> some of the people were going out, i told them to go out clock wise carefully, because obviously there was a pit of hot rocks in the center. so you know i was doing my best

to control their movement out in a controlled manner so they wouldn't fall into the pit. one gentleman actually ended up burning himself in the pit. >> when you see what happened and the scale of it, the number of people that were clearly suffering, pretty dramatically, it just seems extraordinary that nobody in any position of authority called a halt to this. i mean, you must live with that every day now. that guilt because it cost three people their lives. >> i do. >> and it just prompts the question, why was nobody being more responsible, i guess? >> i had systems in place and the systems broke down. >> what was the system in place for that kind of event? >> there were people positioned within the lodge that were supposed to take care of the participants. and you know, there were people positioned outside the lodge that were to take care of people. and we had you know, i mean, the

record -- we deliberated that, you know, ad infinitum in the trial. we did our best to provide the things outside the lodge for hydration, et cetera. because i had done this experience for a number of years, and we never had anything even close to this. >> but you had people injured, right, at least three different instances where people suffered a type of health injury? >> no, there was one time that a gentleman was taken to the hospital two years prior for hydration. and he was dehydrated. he got hydrated and they sent him back within a couple of hours. and so we immediately put in hydration mechanisms, post that year. because we realized hey, we want to address this. i was totally shocked. totally shocked. >> let's take another break, i want to come back and play the dramatic 911 call which alerted the authorities to what was going on here and also hear from some of the relatives to the

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what is the problem? >> two people are not breathing. there is no pulse. >> okay, is this the result of a shooting or something? >> no, it was a sweat lodge. >> a sweat lodge? >> he made one comment, and they did say she is passed out, she is passed out. i don't know if she is breathing, he said the door has

now closed and this round has begun, we'll deal with that after this round. >> this is a 911 call and talking about the tragedy that happened. he is back with me now, he is speaking out for the first time since his release. a little reaction on twitter, and give me your views at piers morgan if you want to join in this debate. the guy said come on, making loads of money, maybe $10,000 each, packing in as many as he could, didn't really give a darn, and just wanted to get out of there. what do you say to that? >> i understand. i mean, if the only thing i knew about me was what i saw in the most media coverage, i would think i was arrogant, self centered and noncaring. >> were you before that day? had you become a bit like that. i watch this clip of you,

supreme confidence, many would see it as arrogance, all about making money, famous, did it go to your head a bit? did you maybe subliminally cut corners? >> i don't know, piers, i'll answer the first part of your question. was i arrogant? yes. i have that characteristic, i can be arrogant. and i think there is a lot of hubris that comes in my former business. you know, people flying all over the world and asking me how to have a better life. and it tends to go to your head. you know? you tend to think you have got all the answers, and so you get humbled. >> when you were told that people had died, three people had died, what was your immediate reaction? >> shock.

denial, disbelief. i couldn't -- i couldn't comprehend it. anguish, like i said it is the greatest pain i can imagine is to -- really care about helping people. and end up seeing them getting hurt. >> i mean, people who heard you say that earlier reacted quite strongly said well no, the greater pain is to be a relative of somebody who died in your lodge that day. and i want to play a clip now from kirby brown, one of the victims, 38, from westtown, new york, this is her mother talking about what happened. >> how many people walked past my daughter in her last moments trying to gasp for breath and didn't help her? how do you live with that? somebody was working to help her outside the tent and i don't know that they were even trained to do cpr. how do you live with that?

>> how do you live with that? and what do you say to a mother who has lost her daughter in such circumstances? >> i'm terribly sorry. it is not easy to live with. you know, it is something i have thought about every single day. and will continue to. >> do you feel guilty for what happened? >> it was my event, it was my lodge. i designed it. not the lodge, i designed the event. i chose to do the lodge. and to that degree, i'm responsible. i was the captain of the ship. i have to take responsibility for that. >> there was an allegation that you left the scene pretty quickly and just disappeared. is that true? and if so why did you leave so fast? >> you know, piers, i wish i could say that i was enlightened

enough to not have any impulse for self preservation. i'm not. i -- within the first five minutes, the detective told me that they were investigating it as a homicide. and i was already in shock. and i was like what? and i called my lawyer, and my lawyer said get out of there. i told him what the detective said, he said get out of there, they seized my room, there was nowhere to go. and so i left. and again, there are many things i wish in retrospect i could do differently, but i was scared. >> i think that is perfectly understandable you would be scared. but it also will appear to people that it was pretty cowardly. as you say, the captain of the ship would normally stay there right to the end. but you fled. and left this catastrophe behind you. >> i wouldn't argue.

you know, i wish i was strong enough to say in the moment, to my counsel, i had never been there before. i was in a situation where i was scared and i was shocked. and -- you know, again, i wish i was enlightened enough to say that i could overcome that, but i was not. >> were you a nice person then when you look back on yourself? do you look back on yourself with a certain degree of disgust perhaps at your actions? and recognize that there was a character trait in you that you had to change? >> there is definitely traits in me that i had to change. and there still are. i don't know that i would say disgust. you know? i'm human. and i think i had to go to

prison to learn some things that i couldn't learn anywhere else. scared the hell out of me to go. >> what is the single biggest thing you learned from the time in prison? >> there are so many. i think the biggest thing i have learned -- there is a lot of things. but, is that -- i felt like i -- in prison, first of all i was scared to death when i went in. i didn't know if i was going to be beat up or stabbed or raped, you know, all i knew about prison was what i saw in the movies. and -- i was scared. >> when you found yourself in the first few weeks, as you said with death row inmates, it is about as low as your life could

possibly have gotten coming down from this huge high. what the hell were you thinking as you sat in your cell? >> i had to play mental games with myself, because i had to wear shackles to the shower. you know, you get a shower twice a week. and you have to be escorted in shackles to the shower. and it was an amazing experience. you know, but -- >> humiliating? >> well, humbling. humbling. you know, it was dirty and disease-ridden, but at the end of the day i met a lot of really interesting people. and you know, back to what i learned there, when i first got there, piers, i saw every one else and then me. and then the longer i was there i just saw us. and i felt like i was in the boiler room in the bowels of the ship of humanity. and in the boiler room it is hot

and we fight and we scrap and take drugs non-stop, believe it or not. and we tattoo our gang affiliations all over our face and bodies to try to show our importance and to escape our pain. up in the penthouse of the same ship, there is still the same pain. you know? we cheat with our best friend's wife. and we have to build our business bigger and make more money and we tattoo with jewelry and cars and houses. the pain is the same. it is the human experience, the only difference is how we try to escape it. and that is the great lesson, one of the great lessons, the many that i learned. >> let's take another break, let's come back and talk coming out of prison about the feature and about the call from many of the relatives of those who died in the sweat lodge, there should now be regulations and they want

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it is a really loud and clear message to people in the self help industry, especially providers that if you're going to misuse your power, if you're going to convince people to follow you, if you're going to convince people to trust you and be vulnerable with you, and then you lead them into harm's way, you are now going to be held accountable. >> strong words from an eyewitness at the sweat lodge. he now is back after spending months in prison. james ray. i have to say a lot of this condemns in nature, saying that you keep talking about the pain you have suffered. what about the families? it is going to be harsh, given that you have tried to explain your feelings in that sense. and if any of the families are watching, and they might well be, to see how you have changed, what would you say to them?

>> first of all, again, i would say i'm sorry. i'm extremely sorry for what happened. you know, if i could trade places with any of the three, james kirby or liz, i would do it. and i know nothing i can ever say would change any of that. i -- you know in reaction to your comment before the break, i mean, i have no intentions whatsoever of certainly ever doing another sweat lodge. and -- nor doing any experience-type activities. >> will you do any kind of self-help stuff? have you thought about that? i mean, ultimately you could be in an even better position to help people who have been through a nightmarish experience.

>> i hope so you know, i think we're all here to serve. some entertain, some build business, some teach. and my personal belief is that the universal intelligence, which many people call god, send situations to you to help you learn. and -- you become a better person. >> you lost not just your liberty but most of your money. >> all of it. >> actually by chance, went to view a house in l.a., it happened to be your house you sold at a bottom rate because you just had to sell everything. did you lose everything financially? >> everything. >> how much did you have before this? >> millions. >> ten, 20 million? >> you know, it is -- a lot of my money was tied up in my business. and in hard assets. i had -- >> i mean to go from that kind

of wealth, to getting wiped out and to lose your liberty, it is a huge toll on anybody. but do you think looking back it was an appropriate punishment given that three people who paid money to be in your tutelage lost their lives? >> i have no complaints. you know, i feel like i have taken the punishment, and that god gives us what we deserve. >> you came here tonight with a delightful lady who has been sitting here watching this whole interview. tell me about that relationship and the future for you? >> you know, all the things that we -- there is another lesson, if i may digress. all the things that we hold in such high value in our society, at the end of the day really it amounts to nothing. that is my lesson.

you know, the millions i once had in the bank, the new york times best seller, all the accolades, the inc. 500 company. all of those things amount to nothing. i mean in a matter of months they were gone. and they couldn't buy me one ounce of slack with my -- on my mortgage or anywhere else. and so coming back, i believe that the most important things in life are the things that we sometimes take for granted. like our health, you know, i'm so grateful to be healthy. and our family and our loved ones. you know, i -- i had an incredible family unit that stayed with me through all of this. and it was hard for them. really hard for them. >> and this lady that you came with tonight? >> she is in that category.

you know, she didn't have to stay with me through it. you know? she drove five hours one way to visit me for four hours, to drive back five hours in the same day. you know, time and again. it's been hard for her, she had three jobs. you know? i couldn't -- because i was wiped out, i couldn't help her, i couldn't take care of her in the way that i would have liked to when i went away. my brother drove 22 hours, one way to come visit me and also to come to my trial and sit through the trial and then turn around and drive 22 hours back throughout the night. i mean, i'm -- very, very grateful. i have no complaints at all. and i am incredibly grateful. >> what did your mother say to you finally, i mean, obviously you were talking very emotionally about her at the

start of the interview. when you came out, what did she say to you? >> my mom is my greatest supporter and always has been. and she was always so proud of me. and you know, one of the greatest pains was to have to see in her eyes, all of these horrible things were being said about me. she was just glad i was home. and safe. >> james ray, i appreciate you coming in. i appreciate you talking so openly about this, i know it has not been easy for you and i wish you all the best in sorting out your future and getting your life back on track. >> i appreciate that. >> good to see you. >> when we come back, the winter storm that is threatening all of your holiday plans. where it will strike next.

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43 million americans are traveling this weekend with the thanksgiving holiday. if you are one of them, chad meyers has pretty bad news for you. chad, bring me up to date on the latest bad news. >> a lot of people going many places. if this was a different week you don't come to me this late in the night. but we have 40-something million of people trying to travel and thousands of planes in the sky and that is before the weather gets going. tomorrow d.c. is at 32 and it tries to rain. the moisture is coming out of the gulf of mexico and it is humid. but it's cold up here. the rain is going to try to fall into temperatures that are

approaching 30 degrees. you are 35 degrees 1,000 feet up. but where you are it is 32 degrees and it tries to freeze. that is a problem. 6:00 a.m. tomorrow starting to get light snow across d.c. but the problem is west of there. all of these interstates, the throughway, the turnpike, 80, 90, 66, they will have ice and snow to the west of the big cities. new york city, boston, all rain. but there will be a lot of snow to the west into the areas that people are probably trying to drive through. piers? >> and if you do make it what is the prognosis for friday, saturday, sunday? >> when we get to friday it's all done but the winds will be blowing at 40 miles an hour and i don't think the airports will be reacting with the wind as well as they should. some people may have a couple excuses not to get to work on

monday. >> just wish everybody all the best for thanksgiving. thank you for that update. 50 years ago today, john f. kennedy was laid to rest. the widow, the president's family, john john saluting his father's casket. later tonight, we remember with "the assassination of president kennedy" at 10:00 eastern. good evening and welcome to piers morgan live.

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one of my favorite tv moments of the weekend. "saturday night live." >> i'm piers morgan the tiny little fool of news. it has been a busy year for george zimmerman he was acquitted of murder and was arrested for assaulting his new girlfriend. here to tell her side of the story is his girlfriend. >> hi, pers. >> just one thing to say to you, and that's i'm not tine y. i'm 6'1."

that's all for us tonight. "the assassination of president kennedy" a cnn special, starts right now. in the average man's life there are two or three emotional experiences burned into his heart and his brain. and no matter what happens to me i will remember november the 22nd as long as i live. >> there has been an attempt on the life of president kennedy. >> they are combing the floors of the texas book depository building to find the assassin. [ gunshots] >> oswald has been shot at point blank range fired into the stomach. >> police are working to the assumption oswald's murder was to shut him up. >> the element of a simple intelligence agency killed john kennedy.