we'll also go to colombia and switzerland for lessons. it's an important documentary, four connents, four lessons valuable for the united states. watch it at 2:00 p.m. on cnn "global lessons on guns." up next, "reliable sources." gloonchts good morning, welcome to a bright and sunny washington where it's bitter between the white house and the press corps. reporters say thisser' not getting the access this he need and the white house says we'll never be satisfied. later how ron burgundy blanketed the air waves and how a courtroom decision in new york that happened this week that could impact the future of journalism. let's get started. it's time for "reliable sources."

thanks for joining us today. i'm brian stelter. i know i wasn't the only person stunned when this story came out thursday, robert levinson went missing in iran nearly seven years ago. the american government always said he went there on a private business trip but that was not true. he was a contractor for the cia. rogue group within the agency sent him there on an unauthorized mission. reporters found this out yearning, the associated press, "the washington post," the "new york times," abc news. the government urged them not to reveal what they knew. for years everyone agreed but this week the associated press and "the washington post" decided to go with the bombshell story. >> stunning disclosures about an american who disappeared seven years ago. >> robert levinson a retired fbi agent. >> the secret and unauthorized cia mission inside iran. >> a secret unauthorized mission from the cia -- >> matt appuzo was one of the

associated press reporters who broke the story and here with me now. did i get that right in the intro? >> absolutely. >> take me back to 2010 when you first learned about his true identity and what led up to this week. >> figuring out bob was working with the cia was the first step but reflecting the calculus on whether to hold that story versus the story we ultimately ran is very different. the reason this story was important and the accountability issue behind the story we ultimately ran dass -- >> the bungled mission. >> that a u.s. citizen was put in harm's way by elements of its government, and that is an important story that can't stay in the shah cos forever. >> you heard on twitter, keeping a secret and deciding when not to keep a secret is the hardest thing i've ever done. you mean in your whole career?

>> is peeks to the intensity of the conversations both with the government and family and internalry at the ap and the real weight we gave to this decision. obviously it had an extreme accountability and government transparency issues and had very serious, we wanted to take the ush issues of risk and safety into the factor as well. >> one of the points there hasn't been any proof of life for bob levinson in three years. >> yes. >> some people in the government believe he is not alive anymore. >> look, i certainly, i want bob to come home. adam goldman wants bob to come home. >> he was your colleague to wrote the article. >> this was a smart, ethical -- human beings can debate the merits of running the story versus not running the store yu. i hope we get to the point soon where the discussion shifts from why did the ap run the story to

how do we make sure the kcia canner in do this again and why weren't the government being straight with us for so many years. >> sometimes the ethics issues are a distraction from the point of the story. >> we should be having the ethics conversations and this platform is the right one for those but i hope other people start to raise questions of the u.s. government and say does this still happen? could this happen to another american citizen today and if they did what would they do dimple. >> katherine carroll senior editor at the associated press joins us by phone from new jersey. i'm hoping you can tell us what the decision process was up until the story being published, why did you decide to publish now? >> as matt said it was a long and very complex set of discussions over a period of time always with bob refbson at the top of our minds. the story was complete some time

ago. >> it read it had been waiting around for a while. >> i think waiting around -- listen, one of the things we kept coming across was however impatient we were to publish our frustration was nothing compared to that of the levinson family, and mr. levinson himself. we try not to put ourselves at the center of this issue. bob levinson is the center and the government officials who sent him off on this mission. >> let's play a clip from jay carney, the white house press secretary who addressed the story in his briefing before the weekend started and i'd love for you to respond. >> i'm not going to fact check every allegation made in the story you reference ed a story believe it was irsoble to publish and strongly urged the outlet not to publish out of concerns for mr. levinson's safety. >> is i'm guessing kathleen that you disagreed it was highly irresponsible. >> obviously. i wouldn't do anything that was highly irresponsible, none of us

would. we've had conversations with people in the united states government three years, several administrations at the cia and when they were able to be persuasive that something was about to happen, or that something was in motion that might lead to a resolution of mr. levinson's circumstances, we took that very seriously and we listened to it. ultimately for the reasons, the arguments that the government was making were no longer persuasive. >> some people wonder if there's any connection between the justice department another branch of the government, coming after the associated press months ago getting subpoenas for phone records and now this story, which is rather antagonistic perhaps of the government. is there any connection? >> none whatsoever. i assure you the topic never came up once during the course of many, many, many hours of discussion. >> this does remind us that

organizations like yours and this one exist in part to challenge the government, to report what they do not want reported. >> not just the united states government, although it's certainly the one that we have had some of the most high profile disagreements with, but accountability requires us to do this with people who are in governments around the united states and across the world. >> matt, i wonder if, having seen the government's reactions to the story if you feel they are mostly bothered by the publication because it is an embarrassing story about a rogue agent, a rogue unit within the agency? >> i certainly don't speak for the government. i certainly hope that as i said before, you'd like to see the government talk a little less about the ap and a little more about bob levinson and a little more about what it can do to make sure this can't happen again. bob levinson was in iran, serving his government and bob levinson was not well served by his government. and i think that's something we can't lose sight of. >> very well said. thank you for joining us and kathleen thank you for joining

us by phone. coming up, now is the time to say this, if you have small children in the room, maybe you should distract them, because we're about to discuss the joelly rose cheeked man we know as santa claus with the writer who started the discussion, that's next. al presentations on research. and development. some new members of the team will be introduced. the chairman emeritus will distribute his usual wisdom. and you? well, you're the chief life officer. you just need the right professional to help you take charge. ♪ then you'll know how uncomfortable it can be. [ crickets chirping ] but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? [ exhales deeply ] [ male announcer ] well there is biotene. specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants, biotene can provide soothing relief

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congestion, for the smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the buses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution into the air. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment. santa claus should not be a white man, another person claiming it's racist of a white

santa. for all of you kids watching at home, santa is white but this person is arguing maybe we should also have a black santa. santa is what he is. we're debating this because somebody wrote about it, kids. >> all right, here we go, that's maiden kelly of fox news responding to an article published by slate. in the article, aisha harris argued it was time to give old st. nick a makeover. >> thanks for having me. >> i feel like your voice has sort of been missing in the coverage of this, at least the coverage on fox this week. tell us the point what you were trying to make was. >> the point i was trying to make was that i think that we have, the world has changed a lot over the last 50, 100 years, and santa claus is a fictional character. he is nothing like the original historical figure he was based off of anymore. we've kind of evolved him into this magical mythical figure,

and for kids, i think it's important that they don't have to feel necessarily bogged down that santa is always white, and that's the way he should be. he's not real, so i think that it's important to incorporate a less ethnic appropriation of santa. >> i suppose you must feel good knowing this kicked up a debate. i wonder how you felt when you heard the comments on fox on wednesday. what was that like? >> it felt, it kind of reinforced my point actually i think, because the fact that kelly and some of the other guests on the show were insisting that santa is white. to me, just spoke to the reason why i wrote the piece, is that there are a lot of people out there who automatically assume that santa must be white and there's no way -- it's laughable that he could be anything else. >> i thought you should be on that panel discussion. did they call on wednesday, did they invite you on the show? >> no, not for wednesday.

i was not reached out to, and they did not reach out to slate. >> and fox says they did reach out for a follow-up segment on friday, and that slate declined on your behalf. is that right? >> yes, that's correct. >> why was that? because they didn't give you enough warning, didn't want to appear on the network? >> maunl becau >> mainly because they didn't reach out before a few hours before the show was airing. i had heard already she was going to be talking about it that night, earlier in the day, so it just felt like it was kind of last-minute thing and felt almost like a sleight. >> here is a clip of her explanation of her comments. >> for me, the fact that an off-hand jest i made during a segment whether santa should be replaced by a penguin has now become a national fire storm says two things, race is still an incredibly volatile issue in this country, and fox news and yours truly are big targets for

many people. >> so aisha, how do you feel about that response? >> i felt like they were kind of playing the victim there, and the fact that they tried to deflect it and say they were also making a joke out of it, it didn't ring true to me. she said it very emphatically on the program, on wednesday, and to me, there was nothing joke-like about that. >> to tell you what i think for a minute, i kind of wonder if fox had a different audience demographic, if she would have commented differently about santa. data from 2012 shows about 1.4% of fox's prime time audience is african-american. if that was 24%, i'm wondering if she would have said something differently. of course that's not something we can know. it was interesting, wasn't it, to see "snl" last night. did you watch? >> i have not seen it yet. >> you'll see this clip for the first time. here's thompson as black santa.

>> does it bother you when people like meghan kelly insist you're white? >> i'm surprised people thought i wasn't black. you ever known a white man to wear an all red suit? i mean, people want to believe the reality that's most comfortable to them. they don't want to live in a world where santa is black and one of his reindeer is gay. >> which one? >> come on, cecily. prancer! >> it was a pretty good episode, i thought. and it goes to show both the power of the member for someone to write a blog toest that gets his attention and the power of to action to get it more attention. >> definitely. >> jon stewart talk it on as well. from "the daily show" a couple nights ago when they took this topic on also. let's roll that. >> who are you actually talking to? children who are? st sophisticated enough to watch a news channel at 10:00 at night, yet innocent enough to still

believe santa claus is real, yet racist enough to be freaked out that he isn't white. >> this really did take on a life of its own. i wonder if you plan on writing anything more about this. >> i wrote a response to kelly after the fact on wednesday on slate, and i think that kind of says it all. bauskcally just the fact that santa isn't real, and i think we need -- the larger point is that we need to start thinking outside of just the cultural norms of white always being the default, and that goes into not just fictional characters but also into everyday life and the way we perceive people of different ethnicities and different cultures. >> where do you think we'll be in ten years or 20 years? do you think what you're describing will become more common in. >> i hope so but i feel like there's really no way to tell. the world is changing, and

america is becoming less white, so maybe we will get a broader view of things and be able to kind of see things in a different perspective. i hope so. >> and if fox calls today or tomorrow, if they give you more time, will you come on? >> you know, i can't say at this moment. thank you. >> i understand. we're live on tv, no commitments but aisha thank you for being here. i appreciate it and we enjoyed the debate this week. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up, the white house and the press corps, they are at odds over access to president obama. we have new information on that from the white house, coming right up. i need a car that's stylish and fashionable... especially in my line of work. now do you have a little lemonade stand? guys, i'm in fashion! but i also need amazing tech too... like active park assist... it practically parks itself. and what color would you like? i'll have my assistant send you over some swatches... oh... get a fusion with 0% financing for 60 months, plus $500

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welcome back to "reliable sources." i'm brian stetler. the press always wants more access to the white house, the administration usually wants to give less access, this tug-of-war is going on for decades. the press says it's gotten worse lately and the only photographer allowed inside some white house meetings now actually works for the white house.

to set up our conversation here is cnn's senior white house correspondent brianna keilar. >> reporter: reporters and photographers frustrated that independent media are shut out of even routine presidential events at the white house, no reporters, no photographers, so no uncomfortable questions of the president, and no images the white house can't control. recent examples, the president's lunch with hillary clinton, his oval office visit with mulalah yousafzai, a pakistani human rights activist who told the president to stop using drones in her country and a meeting with palestinian and israeli negotiators. doug mills is a "new york times" photographer. >> the white house photos as many people have, are press releases, basically putting the president in the best light. >> reporter: last month, 37 news organizations, including cnn, sent the white house a letter, comparing decisions that shut out the press to "placing a hand

over a journalist's camera lens." the restrictions seem at odds with the pledge president obama made to americans at the beginning of his presidency. >> let me say it as simply as i can. transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency. >> reporter: isn't it sort of the problem is that he has set up a standard himself that he's not meeting? >> what i can tell you brianna, every president has had meetings that the press didn't cover. we want to work with the photographers and others to see how we can be more responsive. >> reporter: a change may be made, the white house press secretary jay carney says there will never be agreement between the white house and the press on the appropriate level of access. brianna keilar, cnn, the white house. >> let's get our panelist's take on this. amy holmes in the studio, anchor of "the hot list" on glenn beck's the blaze.com and

christina, editor and chief of "roll call" beginning next month. christina, congratulations and let's start with you. we heard in the package there's probably never going to be agreement on this but do you think they can get back to a better balance between the two competing interests? >> i think the white house realizes that because they've been under so much pressure on it, they have to give a little bit more access to alleviate some of that pressure but the bottom line is that the white house does this because it works. they're able to take advantage of new distribution channels to tell the story they want to tell about the president. that's not necessarily new and it's certainly not new for barack obama. they did it on their 2008 campaign, in the last campaign and doing it in the white house, and lots of administrations have done this, every administration has had, not every, but most recent administrations have had a taxpayer funded photo office. there's all kinds of reasons for that. what the press is trying to get at here is when you say it's a private event and you don't allow our news people to come in, but then you're sharing that photo with the world, you're

trying to tell your own story and the whole point of being a journalist is being more than a stenographer, being more than that, and trying to tell the story as it is accurately portrayed. >> aum amy, where do you come d? >> this goes far beyond a tug-of-war. as dana mil bank wrote in "the washington post", the white house is banning press corps photographers from covering what are not really private events, these are events that involve the president of the united states doing the people's business, and so on the one hand yes, of course, the white house, this one and future ones will be releasing their own photos around the white house press corpse through social media but this is starting to smack of prop began da and particularly when the press is publishing photos hand fed to them by the white house as if that was a news photo and not a propaganda photo. >> peter do you feel this is only going to increase with every administration that follows? >> yes, absolutely. calvin coolidge had a press

conference every week. president kennedy one every two weeks. president roosevelt, the fireside chats that go over the heads of reporters. the white house uses, advances the media to go around us. they don't need us anymore. david axelrod told me when i was talking to him after the campaign they go fishing where the iffish are. they can put their paid controlled messages on "duck "dynasty"" "the big bang theory "inside video games. 22 million people watch the evening news every night. >> no one begrudges the white house using the avenues of communication. the fact is that they are banning, they are banning the free press from their events and what about the press publishing the propaganda photos? >> i'm not defending the white house. i get where they're coming from a little bit. >> the bureau chief from "time" magazine knows better. >> yes. i'm agreeing with you, though, that a lot of this seems just self-inflicted. >> self-inflicted, what do you mean by that?

>> why not let a photographer into an event where like you said the president is doing the people's business for 30 seconds to get a pool spray. we're talking about this on national television right now and the white house always derides process journalism you guys are focusing on process. er this stepping in it. let us in there, talk a few pictures. >> this has been going on for a long time from the very first day of the administration when chief justice john roberts botched the oath of office and they had a private swearing in ceremony, they had a still photographer in there, not from the news organizations, to put that out there, so this has been an ongoing trend, this week -- >> from the administration who promised to be the most transparent u.s. history. >> i have a feeling no president will say that again because it's been used against him for years. >> there's photos that my friends posted on facebook but they weren't allowed in the

front cabin to see the images of bush and hillary clinton and barack obama having this conversation. >> and the paintings on his ipad. because this is process journal uchl and the white house detests that, jay carney said to several news organizations he'll have a meeting tuesday, that he's going to bring in representatives from the white house correspondents association, the photographer's association and talk through these issues, they'll try to find better ways to work together. that's not surprising because they want to move past this story. >> they do and looking at their poll numbers. finally it seems possibly the media love affair with this administration might be over and they are no longer willing to be lap dog taking predigested tidbits. >> in 2008 there was probably a larger infatuation with the media. the reporters that deal with this white house and the obama world on a day-to-day basis aren't really in love with the guy. there is a real sort of toxic relationship in this city if you

go out and talk to reporters -- >> seems to have grown in the past year particularly. >> it has. >> as media organizations consider their own costs and what they'll be doing for campaign travel and white house travel it's expensive to go with the president. if you're on air force one you have an expectation you'll be gathering information and if you can't do that and just spent $12,000, $15,000, $20,000 to take the trip maybe the news organizations pull back. >> happened on the romney campaign, people decided no the to send reporters out because the romney campaign told me why should we give access to reporters? president obama doesn't give access to we're not going to. the campaigns today, the entire political apparatus is frankly a risk averse, we all have phones on our cameras, with he can catch any gaffe and why go out and cover mitt romney if he's not going to talk to you, spending all that moun. >> at "the news hour" we looked at our archives and we did a store why i y in 2009 how many s

giving. >> the honeymoon period. >> what do the press reps want to get out of it? i asked the head of the white house news photographers association, ron sachs says the specifics of a resolution to this issue would include at very least giving the press appropriate access to the events photographed by white house staff photographers except where additional, where exceptional circumstances warrant. failure to provide appropriate access throatens the first amendment freedom of the press. one of the circumstances could be the situation room if we see foe fphotos of president owe ban the situation room, he wants some sort of compromise where there is more access than there is now. >> there's little access to the oval office, only a handful of "time" photographers allowed in there. they go to the cabinet room and the pool spray, maybe 30 seconds, click, click, click, everybody gets the same photos. that's not an easy job as a photographer to make the photo interesting but then also the storytelling getting back at the

pictures of the white house dog or the way the if first lady is portrayed or things they're able to do, an example i've seen, with when they visited nelson mandela's cell. >> there is the dog and cnn will show the pictures, an example of a compromise, some white house photos we will show on the air. >> if they have general interest and people want to see pictures of the dog, when you talk to everyday people they ask. >> i was impressed, the white house rollout of the recent dog. it was done on youtube, they went where people wanted to see it as opposed to some other way. one other topic before we go to the break, also involving photographs the famous selfie we saw in south africa. i was resistant to cover this, and then i saw a tweet from a viewer who argued why it was worth bringing up. here is what the person wrote, they said especially for "reliable sources" the more obvious media coverage angle is the sexism and octoberification of the prime minister in the photo. we saw the covers of the "new york post" and "daily post" talking about president obama

flirting with the prime minister. do you think this had sexist overtones, did it feel it was inappropriate? >> i didn't see it as sexist but sexualizing the encounter and this whole soap opera and drama that the american people seemed to love particularly in the rich and the powerful and if you do a google search of george bush and condoleezza rice, some crazy love trile and laura bush moving out of the white house, splash tabloids. we love this is alaushs story. i don't think it was sexist to note the prime minister is an attractive woman and it seemed she and the president had a familiar and affectionate relationship. >> i'm not familiar with the danish prime minister, but she's actually back home sort of on her political campaigns cultivated image kind of a style icon back home. >> the gucci prime minister and the expression on michelle obama's face, she could have been reacting to anything.

>> the photographer said she had been participating in the conversation only two minutes earlier. >> the photo surfaced. >> what we needed was not a photo but a video so we could fast forward and rewind and understand the context of the situation. >> people complain that we focus so much attention on this in the media when it's the anniversary of the newtown massacre or there are other important stories. >> or knellsan manmandela. >> this didn't take away from the service whatsoever. there are thousands of people attending that event. just a moment of mellow drama. >> we'll have more political topics in a moment. i just love the new 2014 chevy malibu.

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welcome back. i'm brian stelter. here with me is amy holmes, anchor of "the hot list" peter hamby, political reporter for cnn and christina bell antoni, soon the editor-in-chief of "roll call." a story peter you broke the gop plan ahead to 2016.

they were talking about proposals for debates and the process, they say one proposal being weighed by the rnc members would involve sanctioning a small handful of debates, penalizing candidates who participate in any non-sanctioned gop debate stripping them of one-third of their delegates to the national convention. this caught my eye because debates are bread and butter for cnn and other cable news channels during the primary season. tell me about the reasons why there's talk of limiting them in 2016. >> the rnc chairman reince priebus has been outspoken about wanting to convedense the prima calendar. 2012 republicans thought it dragged on too long. >> and it hurt them. >> too much intraparty fighting, self-inflicted wounds things that dragged down mitt romney in the general election. they are now working behind the scenes to both shorten the primary calendar and they have done in this sort of new panel passing a lot of motions to figure this out. one big thing is debates.

last time in 2012 there were 20 republican primary debates, i was at 19 of them so for reporters, how many more stories can we write about this. they provided endless drama, the rick perry oops moment, romney saying self-deport, these things hurt republicans. what they want to do and haven't passed a lot of specific things behind the scenes, still working on what to do, penalize candidates who participate in non-sanctioned gop debates stripping them of a full third of their delegates to the convention which could be crippling. they're figuring this out. they're talking about working with the networks to massage who they moderate the debates. they were sort of upset george stephanopolous the abc anchor who used to work for the clinton white house, republicans saying why was a democrat moderating our debates. they want to get five or six debates instead of 20. this is embryonic.

but this is something they're going to make a hard push for in the next year. >> let's talk strategy, is this a smart strategy? >> politically it could be smart, i think a lot of the base will be unhappy with this, as we saw in this last election cycle these more conservative candidates that have hermann cain, michele bachmann, giving mitt romney a run for his money. that phenomena will be less likely if they condense the schedule and it's bad for the press. >> let's just say it is. >> it creates news, who is up, who is down, who stepped in it and who just had a brilliant moment, newt gingrich pushed back on his stories about his wife and the divorce and the question was put to him and he was effective and -- >> in he won south carolina. >> absolutely. i like drama in politics and i like politics to be more open but i understand why the gop

wants a candidate. >> if i'm a viewer i might want a fox anchor to host a democratic debate or -- >> if you're republican maybe you want a fox person to not moderate your debate because that will get at more republican issues or conservative issues. it's interesting how different the general election debates are from the primary debates. debates filter out candidates and flesh out something in your policy more than a sound bite or tv commercial. why not overhaul the thing? i'd see a debate between the heads of the congressional committees, what is your blueprint for america and why should your party win in the midterm elections? there should be more airing of policy. >> sounds like a "crossfire" debate at least. >> yes, a little plug. >> what i'm anxious to see how the republican party manages this, talking about this delegate penalty. the presidential campaign everyone says presidential

campaign is three years away. it's 11 months away, starts november after the midterm elections next year when all of this starts. all of me see insurgent candidates, hermann cains and michele bachmanns, they make a decision decide to participate, they don't have delegates not. you have to make decisions -- >> people don't care if they're running for vice president or cabinet. >> you can run for president and you can run for president. >> i think it's a great opportunity to raise name i.d. for politics or press or other professional reasons. >> you're totally right. >> mike huckabee signaling he might run in 2016. we're already hearing it. >> the "des moines rege center" came out with a poll in iowa. >> i did not see that. >> his favorable ratings are through the roof. mike huckabee's pollster rolled out a poll that showed him leading iowa and south carolina. again, you can run for president on fox news.

i have spent, i don't cover the white house but i cover the country. i've spent the last five years living in republican politics, going to iowa, texas, south carolina, wherever. you talk to republican activists, all they do is watch fox news. you can reach as many iowa voters going on fox news, more iowa voters than by flying to des moines. >> if people polled them about sean hannity. >> he gets to be on tv, knock democrats teeth in every day, do it with a smile and not the nitty gritty of campaigning. >> let's look at the other side. in 2008 there were rumors chris matthews was considering running in pennsylvania and he has his perch at msnbc where he gets to bash republicans and conservatives every night. >> looking at 2016 there are three or four candidates doing the behind the scenes hard work, chris christie, rand paul and marco rubio. then the scott browns talking about it and going to iowa. again you can go out to iowa, get a lot of buzz, maybe rise up to 3% in the polls, rise to 10%,

all of a sudden you're on the vp short list discussion. you can raise your profile just by talking about running for president. >> thank you for sharing the story with us. it's a great read on cnn.com and christina and amy thank you for being here as well. ahead on "reliable sources" the ron burgundy phenomenon, is there anything such as too much marketing of "anchor man "? people don't have to think about

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welcome back. i'm going to see if i can get through this segment without any teleprompter mistakes because that would be ironic if i were to mess this up. ron burgundy has been everywhere lately. the actor will if terrell who plays anchorman in "anchorman 2" has filmed ad spots touting the dodge durngo, honed alongside a north dakota news anchor and flew to boston where emerson college renamed their journalism school the ron burgundy school of communication for one day. he has an ice cream flavor, a signature brand of scotch, autobiography, museum exhibit and got cnn to play along in this promotional video. >> ron burgundy. >> what hasn't been said about

r ron burgundy? >> he's a news legend. >> one of the most influential actors in broadcast history. >> on camera, he's the best, but off camera, he's a bit of an [ bleep ]. >> a major [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. >> so are the executives at paramount on to something with this ad strategy? the movie's not out yet after all. sam, we could talk about this all day, but in the few minutes we have got. what do you think have done right at paramount with this rollout? >> thank you so much for having me here. i think they have done a lot right. i don't think it's possible to give too much credit to ron burgundy. they are writing all of this material, they're performing it. there are 70 of those dodge durango spots. that's well beyond the sort of press like the kind of media you

have to sign on to do when you do a normal movie. >> right. right. so i do wonder if the movie can possibly live up to all of this marketing? >> i don't know if that matters. i mean the job of the marketers is to get people into the movie. if you think the marketing is funny, that's an accomplishment on the part of the director a and the stars. so if the marketing is better than the movie, good job marketers. and i think there's some discussion on whether there's too much of this stuff out there. i don't think you can oversaturate. i can't remember a movie where that's killed the opening weekend because people feel like they have seen too many trailers. >> is there a lesson we can take away about marketing of movies and other products in the future from this whole campaign? >> i do think this is really going to change the way that stars contracts are written in these big comedies because if you have somebody like ferrell who's created this fascinating

character, so maybe you do want to see like three hours worth of advertising with him. maybe like you give him more points or whatever and he says i'll play ball not just for the month before the movie, but for the six months before the movie. >> tell me what gross points mean for the audience at home? >> groce points is the percentage of the chunk of the movie that the ticket sales they're taking in because hollywood accounting means that no movie ever made money. >> someone just pointed out on twitter, ron burgundy is no beyonce. what was the strategy there? >> i think it's a real power move on beyonce's part. no record executive says yes, let's take our biggest artist, put out a brand-new record with her and then not tell anybody it's coming out. they had him do everything for that, but she's beyonce, she can do what she wants.

this is her fifth album, she is the ron burgundy of the music world. she's kind of a big deal. >> there it is, there's the connection. billboard says this thing's going to be number one on their release chart in the week upcoming. i wonder if anybody can pull this off other than beyonce? >> i don't know. i can't think of anybody who can at the moment. her fans are a rabid and they love her and they love her. i don't want to be the guy who has to explain why when he tried to -- or who, maybe this is the pitch in the future. maybe you can're like beyonce put out an album with no marketing. #. up next, a big win for the news media in court this week. we'll tell you all about it. [ male announcer ] at humana, understanding what makes you different

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then came this baby -- small but with windows and office. it runs my work stuff. ...and i can use apps like flipboard for news, or xbox video to watch the shows i'm never home to see... and i can still get work done at the same time. excuse me, do you mind if i... yep. ♪ honestly, i wanna see you be brave ♪ yep. the united states population is going to grow by over 90 ovemillion people,ears and almost all that growth is going to be in cities. what's the healthiest and best way for them to grow so that they really become cauldrons of prosperity and cities of opportunity? what we have found is that if that family is moved into safe, clean affordable housing, places that have access to great school systems, access to jobs and multiple transportation modes then the neighborhood begins to thrive and then really really take off. the oxygen of community redevelopment is financing.

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welcome back. two days ago, there was panic at a high school in colorado after

a student opened fire with a shotgun. commentators pointed out that it happened just a few miles away from the aurora movie theater shooting in 2012 and one day before the anniversary of the sandy hook school shooting in newtown, connecticut. we all asked what went wrong? what caused the suspect to terrorize innocent people? that's what dawna winter tried to find out after the aurora shooting. she persuaded anonymous sources to tell her about the existence of a notebook that the accused shooter james holmes sent to his psychiatrist before the attack. after winter's story was published, holmess attorneys pursued her and tried to compel her to testify about her sources. she lost twice in lower court, raising the prospect that a judge might say she was in contempt of court and sentence her to jail time. but this week in a big victory for journalists, the new york

state court of appeals said she would not have to testify after all. the court cited the state's unusually strong field law. winter came on fox the next day to thank her colleagues. she still looked shaken up. >> i promised my sources i would keep their identities confidential and would have ended up having to go to jail to do so. >> i would have been shaken up too. roger ailes, the chief executive of fox news says the protection of dawna winter's sources was -- that's all for this edition of reliable sources and tell me what you thought of today's show on twitter and facebook. join us on cnn.com where we're covering the media every day. online right now, my look at how the news media mostly stayed a away from newtown on the anniversary of the shooting there. and a debate about whether "newsweek" magazine made a lousy choice for person of the year. also a study funded by netflix,

how convenient is this? says everybody is doing it nowadays. and tonight is the season finale of homeland. check out the reliable sources blog at cnn.com as well. and we'll see you right back here next week sunday at 11:00 a.m. state of the union with candy crowley begins right now. political moments, an unusual by partisan budget deal on capitol hill and the dangerously escalating tensions a and hot spots around the world. today -- >> and i'm proud of the people of the ukraine and their steadfast efforts for democracy for their country. >> hundreds of thousands protest in the streets of kiev in a face-off with cold war overtone. the uncle of dictator kim jong-un was executed leaving