thirds rate it poorly. president obama can't take credit and dish out blame for the same economy, conflicting messages don't work and won't work. >> but in fairness, s.e., this problem has been going on for 20 years, through clinton, bush, obama, the lower 80% of wage earners have not seen a real wage increase for 20 years. this is not a republican or democrat problem, but an american problem. fair enough. joins, is hullry rosen, and kevin madden. governor, as our guest host, your first question. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. republicans are always talking about tax cuts and this will always be trickle down the truth is these have been tried for a long time, neither terribly successful. it occurs to me it may not be possible for a republican solution to work. >> well, look, again i think

those are two very different way toss describe what i think is a more substantive world view, but i think one of the interesting points that was brought up in the introduction is this idea of blame. i think that's where this issue is going to break down politically this year, which is the idea that democrats are always looking to blame somebody in order to achieve some sort of better leverage in short-term economic -- i'm sorry, short-term political game. i think republicans have put together a better policy to help folks when we're more focused on the long-term benefits. >> i actually don't see this as a blame game. i think president obama wants to increase the minimum wage. i think democrats want to increase. if the republicans choose to be stay tuned and don't go along with it, the blame will be from the american people to them.

we sea in the last two days, a cbs boll, gallup poll, american people overyelp support an increase. so what i think -- >> that's not going to solve -- >> you're going to have this interesting political year where democrats will be talking about how to help the lower middle class, and all republicans are going to want to talk about is how do we prevent people the reps have not put anything on the table. >> that's absolutely not true. >> there's 15 bills that have haven't been acted upon by the senate. all address infrastructure, jobs, trade, energy infrastructure, they have to do with how we stream did not line regulations for small business so they can flewish and grown. >> and democratsing have corresponding bills. >> one at a time. >> populism, it makes for very short-term political benefits of

it, but is it really going to address the fundamental problems we have right know? >> kevin the mast is on our side. it's going to result in increased unemployment, but hillary and the governor are right, the politics is on your side. >> doesn't have to be, though, s.e. >> we try to explain it, but it doesn't seem to work. it's a tough thing to break down economically and sell when you've got democrats saying, you don't care about the poor. >> well, you know, let's just stipulate that none of us are economists and economists believe multiple things on this issue. but i totally agree with you on one point, which is there is no

single solution to this very deep hole that, you know, more than 50 percent of americans find themselves in. >> that's where i disagree with you on the rhetoric. >> there's no one thing that will work, but we have to try multiple things. >> that's why i disagree on the political rhetoric. democrats say republicans don't care about poor people, when that's fundamentally not true, and what republicans are looking at is trying to earn and build the long-term economic growth with fundamental reforms, because the minimum wage is not going to solve poverty. >> agree with one thing, do it and then we'll start on the next thing. >> kevin, you have to admit it is true that you guys have been branded as a party that doesn't care about ordinary working people. it may not be fair, but it's true. you're against minute millennium wage increases, you cut

unemployment benefits. >> and the president signed it. >> i'm not arguing about the merits. i think it's true -- it's a perception problem. what are you going to do about it? >> i think there are a number of folks doing a very good job of changing the rep party profile. if you go back and read the speech that paul ryan gave out in cleveland, where he talked about the need to change the way we talked to people in the inner cities, how it is we understand that not with the top/down government approach, but a bottom/up approach that gives people the skills they need and economic opportunities they need. that's how you fundamentally change some of the income disparity problems. i think just proposing a minimum wage hike is not going to do enough. >> it's going to do something what do you believe the minimum

wage should be raised to? >> $10. >> why not 12? why not 15? >> because i've read at the studies that say you have small business supportsh but you make a significant difference. >> why not make it 15? because there's a trade-off to the economy. when you ra -- >> no one is saying that. that's not an excuse to do anything? >> why not 15 in what i want is a concession. what i'd like is a concession that there is a strayedoff. >> there's a trade-off at some point. the reason the president picked that minimum wage -- that's why he picked it. there a trade-off? yes. is there a trade-off at that level? probably not. >> hillary, income inequality, even though it's an important

issue has historically not been a vote mover. it just doesn't get people out to the polls. i'm wondering if this is the democratic big idea for 2014. in a low turnout year, is that really going to get people out of the house? >> i don't know if there's any one thing. i think you're right on one point which is, look, this could very easily go into a class war fare discussion, which will not help democrats, and it's never helped in politics. people want to feel aspirational. they want to feel like they can move to the next socioeconomic clays, but we've had such a stilted movement, that people have stopped dreaming that way. what they do want to see is our politicians and electioned officials actually making an effort to understand what they're doing, to simly say, forget it, that's not going to work, is not going to help. that's where i feel like democrats trying to put stuff on the table, the president getting

out there talking about this is going to be a political game. >> should republicans suck it up and go along with this minimum wage talk just to avoid the traps they're talking about? >> i think we have to recognize -- i would like to see a substantive conversation about some of the tradeoffs and the impact it could have been as far as taking some jobs away from those trying to grab on to that bottom rung of is the economic employment ladder, but i believe republicans have to do a much better jobs recognizing there are so many people out there that are hurting at the bottom of the economic ladder, talk directly to those people, like hillary said, about how we can help them with the public policies. so far we have yet to focus on the real elephant in the room. i know my democratic friends want to avoid it, but when we come back, i'm going to ask dr.

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to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. welcome back. in the "crossfire" tonight, hillary rosen and kevin madden. remember that bipartisan budget deal that they passed. they could seem to handle the blowback in the growth rate in military pensions. let me explain this to you. many of the retirees are in their 40s, earning another full-time living in another job. now that the two-income earners you are are are outraged some reps are caving in. somehow benefit for the needy are seen as wasteful,

unemployment insurance, food stamps, increasing the minimum wage, and republicans wonder why they have an image problem. >> there you go again with the image problem. >> seriously they are caving in for a group of middle who have other jobs, and this is a $6 billion item over ten years, yet these are the phones who say -- which are huge -- >> this is just simple constituent casework. in essence -- and i don't think this was geared towards republicans. i isle -- and this was nothing look standing in a town hall that makes you change your mind. this is how this happens, how people change their minds in washington.

to get a bipartisan deal or if something leads to another opportunity for republicans and democrats to work together to solve a problem. >> hillary, the elephant in the room as i mentioned is obama care. on wednesday the chaos commences. isn't that what democrats are really going to have to run on? whether they like it or not. i don't believe you're going to have a choice. you're going to have to deal with obama care over the next year. >> i think there is a chance, a chance that by september we're actually going to have stories where people who couldn't get insurance, you know, like two of mice cousins at our holiday table, now because of preexisting conditions now can get it. there are so many benefits to this thing that have gotten lost in this trap of execution that, you know, it won't take much for enough people to tell good

stories. does that mean that will undo everything and think about the money that's being spent to highlight the bad news? no, but it might be a wash. >> there's real problems, though, premium hikes. >> but it's supposed to be affordable. >> it shows that premiums have actually risen less >> you know what i'm talking about. the canceled plans, the doctors you can't see, this has been a mess. you're going to be advising some democratic candidates. i think we have to have a positive narrative about obamacare somewhere around june, because september is too late. so we've come through the website thing for the most part. and so who knows who will have insurance.

there will always -- most i agree will do well, what about the anecdotal -- that will be in every attack ad. how do you do this? >> you know, i think nothing will work like a personal story, so, you know, i'm going to advise candidates to find the best personal stories they can, and promote the heck out of them. one of the things that's not getting talked about is this uneasy dance that the administration has been doing with the insurance companies here, because the insurance companies have known they were going to have canceled plans. they've been rain -- but in an effort to keep this training moving forward, everything is looking at this uneasy alliance. gull forward, if this doesn't get straightened out, it might just be, you know, that elephant in the room for so many years, making people want health reform was the insurance industry, they

may go back to being the bad guy. for every story that's a good one -- you premium hikes are also through the -- so many people -- whether or not those premiums were going up, they'll attach it to obama care, so i think that becomes an increasingly being probably. we still have a business mandate. it was delayed because the democrats wanted to avoid the politics of it. now they'll have to deal with it head-on, and now the rate hikes that come next year. >> again, i'll go back to this very point. i just don't think republicans will succeed trashing something that's trying to make 40 million people live. it's going to be cold-hearted,

it's not going to be effective. unless there's another message from the republicans, this issue could end up being a watch, and that's where i dug agree with you. i think republicans will be able to personalize and localize this obama care. they'll being go into -- and the way they pay for their insurance and it's put the government between them and their doctor. that's something i think that offers republicans -- they're going to offer a counter-narrative. they want to replace it. >> 245 may depend on the states. >> of course but the ability to localize it. again for republicans to talk about it as a value, something they care about and have a better plan -- >> we're lucky to have you here tonight, you know a lot about this. what would your prescription be? >> i think they have to tough it out. in retrospect, obviously it would have been better to have a public option, and not an

individual mandate, neither one of which is in the bill, but i do think that kevin has outlined something that will get the republicans into trouble. this bill is almost certainly not going to it's very volatile. we don't know what he's going to happen. if i were the obama people, i'd stick to what i was doing. you can count on the republicans to step over the cliff and make the case too badly, and then when you find out it doesn't come between them and doctors it's going to be tougher. >> it's already getting between them about whether their doctor's in network. >> the real reason for that is the insurance commissioners didn't do their job in the states. but we're never going to be able to convince people that's what the problem is. >> when you say one-size-fits-all standards,.

>> they are actually the popular provision. i can't be kicked out for a pre-existing condition. you can keep your kid on the plan. women's health care doesn't cost more than men. don't talk about this, these are the things if people knew and understood, they'd like. >> montana has a very different health care situation than new york. >> montana has the way to implement the plan think want to. if they don't want to do it, they can implement the federal plan. >> we used to have state by state markets. now we have one centrally-planned market from the federal government. >> that doesn't usually work out too well, but we'll sigh. next, hillary clinton's record breaking results. we'll ask our guests if she's deserving. who do you blame for the widening income gap? tweet democrats or republicans. we'll have the results after the break.

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we're back with hillary rosen and kevin madden. >> hillary clinton has been named for the 12th year in a row as the most admired woman in america. and show's probably going to be the democratic nominee in 2016, how does that make you feel? >> it's going to make him ooh and ah.

>> i have a question for you, though. would you primary her? >> no. >> i was hoping that was a question you weren't prepared for. >> while that's a lovely distinction, it's not a distinction that helped her win the presidency the first time. more good news for us. chris christie is polling behind hillary clinton. >> since chris christie is spending all of his time attacking other republicans instead of attacking democrats, it doesn't worry me at all. i figure lit the republicans get mad at him first. >> do you guys regret not dough fining him in this last election more? >> there's plenty of time. >> as somebody who's run, not only did he supposedly close three lanes to get back at the

mayor or whatever it is, but now they found programs he cut. and he took away the security detail of the former governor who's a republican. >> one interesting thing -- >> the press will do our work for us, it looks like. >> they'll also do it to hillary. >> democrats will not be hampered by 2016 politics. our colleagues are outside the congress. but ted cruz, marco rubio, the republicans are going to be paralyzed to do anything because of their 2016 candidates are all in the congress. >> scott walker disagrees. mike pence disagrees. >> and mike pence is my favorite. mark my words. we'll see what happens to mike pence. >> you can count on the new york times doing an expose. >> of course. who's something that you admire?

>> who i admire? just in politics or? >> sure. >> i always have my deep great admiration for mitt romney and his family. >> and hillary? >> hillary clinton's at the top of my list, but i'm a protége of dianne feinstein. i think those women exemplify the role models for women. >> jill brand. >> i think that hillary's probably going to run, which will be fun to watch. thanks to hillary rosen and kevin madden. go to twitter to weigh in on our fire back question, who do you blame for the widening income gap. right now, 15% say democrats, 58% republicans and 27% say both parties. we have very smart viewers.

from the right, i'm s.e. cupp. >> and from the left, i'm howard dean. erin burnett out front starts right now. next, break news. emergency responders responding to a fiery crash. and people killed by suicide bombers in russia this weekend. are terrorists planning attacks at the olympics? and one of america's most famous tv hosts reveals she's gay. let's go out front. good evening, everyone. i'm don lemon. erin is off tonight. breaking news, two trains collide in a f